mans-best-friend-china-version-puppy-dragging.jpg

The disgusted Chinese observer who snapped this scene couldn’t tell whether the puppy was being dragged out of spite or as part of some novel method of food preparation, but he wished for the perpetrator to be reborn as one all the same.

Dog cuisine is of course far from unknown in China, though it is not taken to the same level as in Korea.

Whatever the case, the treatment is moderately outrageous even for China, which at least normally boils its cats alive out of sight.

Via Heaven.



    Post Comment »
    139 Comments
    Comment by slade
    22:01 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Someone have to inform the man, who killed the couple in Belarus.

    Comment by Yggr
    01:24 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I second this.

    Comment by vesper_nova
    08:23 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I third this

    Comment by Anonymous
    09:33 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    4th'ed

    Comment by Anonymous
    21:59 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    5th'ed

    Comment by A Zabber
    01:55 26/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    sixth'ed

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:46 27/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    seventh'ed

    Comment by Anon
    06:37 28/06/2009 # ! Bad (-0.2)

    c-c-combo breakerrrr

    Comment by King of Hentai Gods
    08:10 04/07/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    8th

    Comment by BASHA
    03:00 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Lke I said before, Chinese people have to right to live.

    Comment by Naraku
    04:20 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Too bad they have their right too wrong.

    Comment by Anonymous
    07:02 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I agree, but people who treat animals like this need to get the fucking shit beaten out of them.

    Comment by necorcosmos
    02:28 26/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Give a break for them its like a cow just food nothing else and if you had live in china you would come to understand their circustamses.

    Comment by Karma
    23:22 21/06/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    If we were dragging cows to their death in ropes after trucks and found that normal, I'd give them a break.

    Now I simply want to break them. Over and over again.

    Comment by Anonymous
    23:37 22/06/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Well spoken Karma

    Comment by Knives
    22:04 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    WTF?? no one stoped him?

    Comment by LunarSD
    23:08 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    The things some people do to animals just because they can get away with it... so sad.

    I remember driving along a country road once and I came across a sign on the side of the road saying "Free kitten".

    It turned out to be a cruel joke, as inside the box was the gutted corpse of a little tabby cat, clearly having suffered on its way out of this cruel world.

    Comment by Anon
    00:48 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    O_O

    Comment by Anonymous
    02:06 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    As sick as that it is, it may have been a passer by, and not the person who originally put the kitten out, that killed it. Since it was out in a box unattended... there are a lot of fucked up people and I suspect a lot of those people would take an opportunity like that.

    Comment by vesper_nova
    08:25 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    yeah but that still wrong

    Comment by Anonymous
    03:04 26/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Jesus christ, I'm not crying now but when that hits me fully later on today, or next week, or...

    God damn it, why would anyone hurt a kitten. A kitten is just the sweetest, most inoffensive, universal image of neediness, affection, and nonthreatening company.

    I'm a vegetarian, but even people who aren't should have no reason to kill animals that aren't threatening, hurting their livelihood, or they're planning on eating. There's just no excuse and whenever I see people being cruel to something like a kitten I wonder how bad modern women's prisons are, because I think I could take most of those creeps if I get the element of surprise.

    Comment by Stormy001
    19:55 05/05/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Because this is who we are. Humans capable of horrific cruelty as much as touching kindness. Where have you been in last 50 years? Look around you on how we treating our own brothers and sisters of mankind. Then you wouldn't wonder so much anymore.

    01:22 20/01/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    it should never matter whether the kitten is the sweetest thing you've ever seen or the genuine hyperactive bloodthirsty adorable little phychop... I mean 'or like my cat'

    Comment by Blu_Haze
    02:34 02/09/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Free cats are awesome.

    http://web2.clarkson.edu/projects/itl/projects/projectChallenge/2006/students/chris_mcconnell/FreeCat.jpg

    Comment by Jarmel
    22:05 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I would love to see what this man's contrapasso would be.

    Comment by Obsidian
    22:10 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Oh god, somebody call the "Log Guy"!

    Comment by Firo
    22:20 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    *turns on the "Logman signal"*

    But wow... CHINA - where animal rights are nothing.

    Comment by lol
    23:04 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    reminds me of the video where a young cute chinese girl stepped on a live kitten's head.. wearing a heel.. seriously, that's some sick memories.. :(
    Still, she's ordered to give an apology later by the chinese court.

    Comment by Firo
    23:53 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Yeah, I remember that one too... there's an article here about it >_>

    Comment by peacefan
    00:24 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    F*ck.....!!!

    Don't bring out that video, make me feel sick to the bone.....

    Wish karma do something to that bitch.

    Comment by peacefan
    00:26 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    That video was very sick, can't stand watching it.

    Wish karma do something to that bitch pronto.

    Comment by MaidNiac
    03:32 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    "Still, she’s ordered to give an apology later by the chinese court."

    And here we go again with idiots who committed senseless and heartless crime and easily got spared by simply just saying "Sorry,dude!" *refers to those boys who tried to kill their teacher's baby by poisoning her food*

    Comment by mechwarrior
    07:32 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    They'll get animal rights once the people can get some actual rights.

    Comment by A Zabber
    01:59 26/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Human rights are fucked up enough, but the thought of animal rights in this shithole make me feel sick

    Comment by takuya13
    22:13 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    wtf >.<... wtf wtf wtf wtf wats the red stuff coming out of the pupping zomg T^T

    Comment by kingalekz
    22:40 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    That's just, er, raspberry jam.

    Comment by takuya13
    23:39 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    fail spelling too puppy*

    Comment by sleepy
    00:19 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    It looks like the intestines. Perhaps the ileum alone, as it spills out from the lower part of the belly. Could be the complete set though.

    At first glance I thought that it was a chicken (;゚Д゚). Anyways that man ought to be shot...

    Comment by basilio
    00:47 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Hahaha and get his organs harvest afterwards?

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:18 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I think he is just pulling road kill from the street.

    Comment by Techeese
    22:22 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    well that's one way of looking at the picture

    Comment by Kenzoku
    23:29 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I agree, that's seems more reasonable

    Comment by KonW
    00:39 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    yeah since i see no trail of blood or intestines

    Comment by Kyo
    22:24 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I wish we could do the same to guys in fursuits.

    Comment by Ace
    06:16 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    lolwut

    Comment by Buga
    22:25 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    i feel very bad for the dog...

    Comment by Berserkhobo
    23:43 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Why? the dog is dead already.

    Comment by Buga
    05:20 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    so dragging a dead human body behind a car is ethical?

    Comment by Berserkhobo
    07:29 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    No, is not ethical, but we are not talking about that. You feel "bad" for the dog, the dog is dead, nothing you can do, even if the dog gets step on the balls it won't feel it anymore. So just let the world find out what's "okay" to do on its own, don't like it, don't watch it, simple.

    Comment by Anonymous
    07:52 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    "dont like it dont watch it"....wonder how many countless times did I read this lame argument >_>

    Comment by Anonymous 2
    12:10 17/08/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    u don;t see it, it was alive when it was dragged to death (I'm assuming it was alive), its the thought of being dragged to death is just wrong, it don;t matter what animal it is, just wrong to die like that >.>

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:27 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    This is PETA.

    We have confirmation of one case of animal abuse.

    Dispatching our jihadist, crusadeing, militant cyborg assassins within 24 hours.

    Comment by mi
    22:44 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    if i were a dog and saw that, i'll bite the man's head

    Comment by sleepy
    00:20 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Make that the lower head.

    Comment by Ren ichimoku
    22:46 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Waaaa....

    Comment by maru
    22:49 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Too much cowboy movies for him?

    Comment by Excel
    23:09 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    So there is where Menchi went. Come back here Menchi your my food supply! Your not getting away that easily playing dead. Too much exercise will make you all chewy.

    Comment by ManaYagami
    23:42 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I see what you did there!

    Comment by Anonymous
    23:10 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Wasn't an easy subject to fap to...

    Comment by Anonymous
    23:58 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Your parents must be proud.

    Comment by KonW
    00:29 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    ROFL

    btw,just saw this
    http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6769386
    tho not as good, but might be a nice material for post

    Comment by Anonymous
    09:36 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    anon really can fap to anything

    Comment by KonW
    12:56 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    annon also has the best sense of humour

    Comment by aldwin30
    23:49 24/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I can't see the dog properly...
    Is the dog's tail the one attached to the rope attached to the motorcycle? or is the dog's head the one attached to the rope attached to the motorcycle?
    Either way it's very cruel and vicious...
    I'll kill if it's my dog..

    Comment by srsly
    00:24 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    a little of topic here,,, but I find the "Read More>>" label on the front page inappropriate, or rather due to the lack of polite words,, it sucks...

    Comment by KonW
    00:33 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    me too,
    but me is bacause it just looks out of place ,too big and stands out too much

    Comment by srsly
    01:10 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    i hope they'll just make it more simple.

    Comment by Artefact
    07:06 25/04/2009 # ! Ironic

    It's being A/B tested. Interestingly, it started off winning, but now it is losing slightly. With some more data the test will be concluded.

    Comment by Reflectia
    00:54 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    would love to drag that driver on the pavement.

    Comment by ninjanyt
    00:54 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    oh shi- this is horrible~

    Comment by AkumaXoXTenshi
    01:00 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Haha, oh wow. "Man's Best Friend: China Version" Best image title ever.

    So is this what China considers "Walkin' The Dog?" or is it an awkward attempt by the Chinese people to transition "Doggy Style" into something of their own originality? Then again, it wouldn't be their first time trying something like that...

    Comment by Anonymous
    07:29 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    It's the daemons.

    Comment by Muzaffar
    01:32 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Lol, kinda reminds me of this commercial:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPJKHRPrnPQ

    Comment by Anonymous
    01:42 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I notice that the dog is being dragged by one hind leg, its head is facing the viewer.
    Therefore a number of things come to mind;
    Either the man has no idea on how to carry animals, perhaps the dog had been sitting on that little shelf behind the man, but fell off and got killed,
    It is his evening dinner, and he couldn't really face killing it face to face, so let the bike kill it,
    It was an attempt at discipline that went so horribly, horribly wrong.
    In any case I believe a suitable punishment is for him to be tied to a towbar by one leg and taken out for a run....

    Comment by XIII
    02:51 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    maybe it felt off from it seat and got drag without knowing... either he deaf or the pet knock unconscious >_> anyway, he deserve to be strike by lightning

    Comment by nyot
    03:07 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    somehow... i want to cut his dick

    Comment by MaidNiac
    04:15 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    He himself is basically a DICK.

    Comment by Nekki
    03:17 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I heard stories from a friend, his father lives in China. My friend said that many chineses, stole dogs right in front of their owners, using a method same as the picture above. Usually dog owners couldn't catch up with those perpetrators, could only sadly watch their dogs being dragged away...

    Comment by MaidNiac
    04:05 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Wow.. just wow.. Other than being street shiters, children killers, gluttonious pet eaters, plagiarism powerhouse, massive organs collectors, public dumpers ..etc, they're also shameless barbaric thieves?

    Comment by Anonymous
    07:21 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Don't forget public executioners.

    Comment by Anonymous
    11:07 26/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Goddamn, you make it sound like Medevial Europe

    Comment by Anonymous
    10:07 29/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Anon no 2: that's pretty much what it is

    Comment by knuclear200x
    04:20 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Uh...........y'know if he wanted an anchor for his motorcycle, he should've bought a tiger. they're heavier than a motorcycle but run just as fast when they have to move.

    /jokin.

    Comment by Anonymous
    04:22 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    jesus christ artefact, could you blur this on the FP or something please? this is 10x more upsetting than the effing tumor you blurred.

    not looking forward to having to see that pic for the next several days every time i come here, could you do us the favor for the non-gore-hardened among us?

    Comment by Artefact
    07:08 25/04/2009 # ! Inadvisable

    There is no gore in the picture?

    Comment by dark mouzy
    04:52 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    aha,cruel man..
    (I see the spirit of that dog is on the back of that man)..
    he..

    Comment by GourmetPrince
    05:00 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Haha!
    I hate animals.

    Comment by Anonymous
    19:36 12/06/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    and they hate you too

    Comment by Anonymous
    05:40 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    hmmm Lunch

    Comment by Bandit35
    06:05 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Maybe he had just finished watching Chevy Chase's "American Vacation" movie and wanted to recreate one of the scenes.

    Sick either way.

    Comment by rabbit
    06:13 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    why there isnt any blood after been dragging so far?

    Comment by Anonymous
    06:35 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I can almost hear Lousie says "Baka Inu!". If you mentally substitute Saito for the dog, it's almost like an episode of Zero no Tsukaima. Tsundere ftw!

    Comment by Ivory
    06:38 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    They eat dogs anyway, that's normal to them.

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:39 19/05/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    i eat cows and it is not normal to me to tie them on my bike o___O this is fucked even if the dog was dead before been tied...

    Comment by Anonymous
    06:55 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    After reading all of this news, does anyone else hate the Chinese with a burning passion greater than the fire of a thousand suns?

    Cunts.

    Comment by MidnightTide
    06:59 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    If I saw that I would run that fella over with my car...again and again and again.

    Comment by Anonymous
    07:01 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I'm chinese... but I don't eat dogs, I've had 3 dogs who all lived up to 16 years. Chinese guys like these kind of make me rage pretty hard. Then again, guys who lump us all together also makes me rage pretty damned hard.

    Comment by Anonymous
    07:36 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Agreed. People are just pretty stupid, all around the world. The unethical people like the guy in the article, and the mindless people blaming these incidents entirely on China (or Russia, in the case of the log man, etc.) all contribute to the decline in the worth of humanity.

    Comment by Anonymous
    07:46 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    seconded! >_>

    Comment by Gene
    12:12 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    yup I agree there are these kind of people everywhere.It's doesn't count by race.Just Chinese people seem to do it the most amount of times...

    Comment by Farmd0g
    07:17 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    More virtues of Chinese Communism. These people cannot be shamed.

    Comment by motaku96
    08:34 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Poor dog. I hope it's alright.

    Comment by Anonymous
    09:06 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I would break this guys neck. He deserves it.

    Comment by Excel
    10:26 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    MENCHI!!!! Get back here!!!! Excel is not happy right now so don't go running away like that.

    Comment by hagges01
    10:36 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    not good....no comment >>

    Comment by H8gwb
    11:02 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    China is a HEUG country. Makes sense that it'll be full of nuts.

    Also, many Chinese are poor, so they have to come up with novel ways to tenderize meat.

    My humour sucks.

    Comment by LoliHat
    11:36 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Someone should tell him that Wallyworld is closed for repairs...

    Comment by Zacharov
    12:01 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Question! Was the dog dead before it was dragged out?

    Comment by Lanis
    12:40 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Fucking pie face needs to get dragged on the road until the skin on his face peels off. Anyone who can do that to an animal deserves no less.

    Comment by Lauren
    13:39 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    丢脸丢到外国去了
    真是让人难以置信有那么残忍的人

    Comment by plmko
    14:19 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Who cares its just a dog, animals have no rights. What I find disgusting is people tripping over themselves to help animals when there are millions of people suffering in Africa.

    Comment by Shinigami cl
    14:29 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Takes a lot to make me angry but hurting what looks to be like a helpless animal & puppy/small dog at that, i would have ended up in jail. Death would be to good for a person like this.

    Comment by Anonymous
    14:28 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I'll prolly see this guys in Hell.

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:43 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    If you are posting here about animal rights but eat meat, GTFO.

    Comment by Anonymous
    10:10 29/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I'm sorry, you seem to have mistaken me for someone who gives a fuck.

    Comment by Zacharov
    20:30 25/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Personally, I have nothing against eating dogs. As long as it is edible and it's the one thing you could get your heads off, just eat the animal. However, what I do have against is not killing the animal properly before doing it. Did this man kill this dog swiftly before dragging the dog, or was the dog being dragged whilst alive?

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:16 26/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    you are retarded.

    Comment by Zacharov
    19:40 26/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    And do you have a point to argue against my statement beyond 'you are retarded'?

    Comment by zZzuuUiii
    01:08 26/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    stop killing animal...

    kill people.

    o_O

    Comment by Golgo 13 Is Gawd
    01:54 26/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    'tis the will of Golgo 13

    Comment by Temujin
    01:46 26/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I love how people ignorantly think this is common practice in China, or representative of the citizens and political environment at all. The picture was obviously taken to spite the perpetrator. It's like a few years back when there was news of some man fucking a dog, you wouldn't just assume that all Americans like to fuck dogs. Quit being jackasses and criticizing a nation for the actions of an individual.

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:14 26/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I think China sucks balls. and they should just still to cows pigs and freaking chickens, and plants like normal people should. Dogs and Cats are not food. this is disgusting.

    Comment by Zacharov
    19:43 26/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    It's food if it's edible and it happens to be something you could afford to get onto your plate.

    Even rats and cockroaches are food if you properly cook them.

    Comment by Temujin
    02:50 27/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    "Normal" people? There are literally billions of people across the world including Africans, Asians, Europeans and indigenous people who eat more than just "cows pigs and freaking chickens". Hell, a good portion of people from the Middle East, Africa and Eastern Europe don't even eat pigs. So how can it be "normal" if it's practiced by the smallest portion of the world?

    By no means do I condone eating dogs or the treatment those animals get (quite the opposite, being a dog owner myself), but it's hardly as widely practiced in China as people assume. On a larger scale, the western world has endangered species of animals for far more petty gains.

    Comment by Anonymous
    05:56 27/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I'm a chinese but not born in China. I'm grateful for that. Call me traitor or whatever but I don't like China.

    I against how they kill the animal to eat. In my country there is a slaughter house that has terrible method to profit from cow meat.
    They put a large hose and start to force the cow to drink until it's dead. The water will make the meat heavier and they can sell it cheap.
    I eat cow meat but those kind of methods I can not forgive them.
    Sometimes I wish they rot in hell...

    Comment by Anonymous
    18:51 27/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    i think if you are a butcher live in china, you wont hesitate to do anything like that.

    Comment by Anonymous
    18:48 27/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    The rope is tied on a leg cant you see? this is definitely not a dog walking...

    Comment by zeeohsix
    15:29 28/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    captain obvious

    Comment by Icy-nee-san
    12:25 30/04/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Oh my god... that guy isn't in the motorcycle lane! THAT SON OF A BITCH!!!

    Comment by Anonymous
    19:37 12/06/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    i think i am starting to hate China

    Comment by Moroboshi
    21:42 20/07/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    This guy deserve to dies like that dog

    Comment by Persona
    07:46 02/09/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    it looks dead to me.

    Comment by Anonymous
    18:43 12/09/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Westerners eating pig . Chinese dogs ;] . Live with that ;].

    Comment by Anonymous
    21:51 21/09/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    Congratulations, you've all failed the police officer induction test. Poor thing fell off the back, due to the noise and construction of the motorbike in question, the rider has failed to realise it's fallen off the back, with fatal consequences for the puppy. Sad...still, the rider should be bitchslapped for expecting a puppy no less to be able to maintain it's balance on the back of a moving motorbike!

    Comment by ImyKyo
    15:06 22/10/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    I think it fell off.. XD

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:56 11/11/2009 # ! Neutral (0)

    damnnn,makin me wanna live there! i can just do something krazy or be a mad krazy scientist or something and still makin money cause people buy it for a cheaper price!

    01:15 20/01/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    I've heard cruelty to animals (regardless on the kind) but this is horrible!

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