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China: All Your Source Code Are Belong to Us

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China has set in motion plans to force all foreign companies operating in China to share their source code with Chinese companies.

The governments of the US, Japan and Europe are objecting ferociously to what in China is likely to amount to state mandated piracy of their software secrets.

The system will mandate that companies producing electronics in China must disclose the source code to any firmware or other pertinent software to the Chinese “partner.”

Provisions are even included for Chinese staff to visit and check up on the manufacturers in the US, Japan or elsewhere, to ensure they have disclosed it all.

Companies who refuse to surrender their intellectual property in this way will be barred from exporting their goods from China.

One of China’s excuses for this is that it wants to ensure proper security for the code used in ATMs and smart cards, so as a result the details of their encryption systems will have to be shared with the highly reliable Chinese manufacturers, ensuring the Chinese can work on improving security for the world’s banking systems.

The law has been in the works for some time now, but now China has announced it will be brought into effect in May. A “grace period” will operate for a time, to give companies the chance to prepare to hand everything over.

Western countries are indignant at the law, but have yet to act decisively in response.

An important strategy used by producers outsourcing to China has been to ensure that technologically sophisticated elements of the production process are kept out of the hands of Chinese factory managers, to the extent of restricting such production steps to more reliable nations, or of using non-Chinese engineers and managers in the sensitive areas.

This measure seems designed specifically to foil any such efforts to prevent sensitive intellectual property being appropriated wholesale by less than scrupulous Chinese operators.

Via Yomiuri.

To put this in context, for a long time now China has operated a system where, in order to receive permission to do business in China, foreign companies have had to partner with a domestic company.

Naturally, there is the expectation that the Chinese company will eventually supplant the foreign devil company through a not necessarily voluntary or legal process of “technological transfer.”

Of course, Japan in the past operated similar highly untoward systems through its infamous “METI” ministry, and emerged the better for it (probably at huge expense to international companies). The issue appears to be rather when China will realise the wealthier it becomes, the less tolerable these practices are internationally.

We must also wonder what the many foreign companies piling into China for the dubious privilege of training a low-cost competitor who will receive all their IP are thinking…

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272 Comments

  • Only rightful thing company’s world wide should do is leave the chinese market out of protest. Sure it will hurt but china will be begging company’s to come back very fast if enough company’s leave.

    and i agree, this is just state piracy… they already copy everything illegally now they make a legal way.

  • I’ve been trying to find more reliable sources for this piece of news now for five hours…
    can’t be done.

    most reliable I’ve found so far is a slashdot article from 5th of october, 2008, but it too only links to the Yomiuri article, which no longer exists…

    I’m about ready to call shenanigans.
    (In case you’re wondering, I’m writing a small paper on Chinas foreign and domestic affairs and their attitude towards other countries in general).

  • You fucking stupid Americans have no idea what the holy business is going on in Holy China!
    Yeah,both Communist and Chinese goverment are bullshit,but i believe that Chinese are all Holy and best!Finally,we'll rule the world!

  • I am Chinese. I have to say that our government sucks in many aspects.
    The reason is from ‘open and reform’ policy 30 years ago. To much emphasize on economic development leads to social problems and corrput. Still, i believe one day rules will change since top chinese leaders are fully known what they are doing. The majority middle level governors really suck.

  • if one source code is made to match products it would be bad effect on all nations put it this way one source code One hacker boom there the theory for you
    so why bother shearing that information we all know the US only want to make money

  • i google for this news and found many of the english sources all linked their sources from Yomiuri. Is there any other english sources who got this piece of news by themselves or from another source that’s not from japan?

    Just curious how credible is this piece of news.

  • ha. the world will be a lot safer place when everyone have equally big guns. China is making a great leap toward it by enforcing that everyone must know what everyone else know, including how to make the big guns. it might seems that the Chinese will be the only one with the know-how, but China does sell lotsa things to lotsa people. where the heck do you think those nice AK-47 comes from?

    i’m amused, really.

    oh, and saged for not related to “anime, manga, and game”.

        • from one or two Japanese source is not very convincing, the article if true obviously stated foreign companies in general, so i would expect other nations, especially US to headline this somewhere. As of yet, that hasn’t happened, so I highly doubt it’s validity.

        • No one blindly supporting China gov.
          Many young people censure gov. in their BLOG erery day, most of netizens DO NOT like many policies of gov, but not base on rumours.

          just u guys are blindly libeling China…FOR FUN.

          Not these site cause your bias, and this debate cannot correct it also.

        • AND ALL of your “weird China news” are from the “weird board” of 163, baidu and so on.
          The Japanese web translate it frist, and you’ll translate it again and write some stupid titles and articles.
          such as “Dog Walking Chinese Style”
          here is the source of Chinese BBS

          the title is “无锡马路上拍到最残忍无耻的一幕”
          and check the comments, ererybody was accusing this action.

          and check your title and the comments here!
          it represent Chinese…lol
          An action which no Chinese support it could represent Chinese.
          So good.

        • GREAT!!!Artefact!!!

          what are u talking about?
          “plenty of English language sources for all this” means this is true?
          What logic!

          If you check the sources from China BBS,
          most of these news are rumours and distortions.

        • artefact is just a shitty lowlife human who has so many spare time in his life, so, to make his miserable life more productive he started grabbin’ weird, outdated, biased, and otaku related news all over the world and compile it in a blog called Sankaku Complex..

          now, you must acknowledge yourself first that before entering this site, be prepared that your race might be ridiculed in his articles and you might find some pictures here offensive..

          where was I? oh yeah, China ftw…lol

  • Now these companies who went to China for “low cost” production are discovering what the TRUE cost is. There’s no line entry on the accounting sheets for the cost of trying to do business in a country that has no ultimate respect for the concept of private property and contracts — without which your business is always subject to takeover by the state.

    Also, I would be shocked if Russia weren’t all over this, immediately contacting companies to get them to move production to Russia.

    As well, since the U.S. government is completely owned by the corporations, expect some reaction from the U.S., which might tumble us all into that Depression we’re on the edge of.

    We live in interesting times, indeed.

  • US is also do the same thing in medicine. If you want to sell medicine in US, although it already proofed work fine, you still need to open your recipe and how to produce those medicine. The EVIL America trying to stole our secret recipe.

    US is also do some censorship in video game, even for M rating. Their politician also complaining about violence and sexual theme in M rating game??? M rating you idiot! I think US politician need to learn how to read ABC again.

    Japan even worse, they censoring the genital part in AV, comic, etc. Very undemocratic, they should listen to the people voice, not became dictator like Saddam Hussein.

  • The time has come to tell them to stick it.

    Declaring the plans for the copycat high-speed trains to be their intellectual property may have been just to test the water. Now this..

    As far as I can tell, the Chinese have no business ethics whatsoever. If we don’t fight this new “law, it’s the beginning of our end. Depending on what else they have up their sleeve, it may already be too late.

  • China: All Your Source Code Are Belong to Us(and it will be available on pirated PC Discs for only 99 cents so buy one now and get free limited edition Pentagon secret files downloads if you call for the next five minutes).Wow,China’s telemarketing is really something.

  • Easy answer for the companies making products in China: add the chips with embedded code elsewhere, or (in the case of EEPROMS) flash them elsewhere.

    If I were the China goverment, I’d be more concerned about the code in devices being _imported_.

    U.S. government worked with U.S. manufacturers to embed code in printers (and FAX machines?) which allowed the U.S. government to snoop.

    How do you set things up so that manufacturers aren’t forced to “give away the store”, and yet still make things sufficiently transparent for the countries importing devices so that they can determine whether or not those hardware/software devices contain spyware (or built-in “die when command ‘X’ is sent” code)?

  • These companies deserve it. They sleep with the Chinese for profits so why not share their secrets with them as well eh? If they wanted their copyright protected maybe they shouldn’t place their money in a place that has no respect for it.

    • What’s so funny about it? How would you like it if you paid (In time on the clock for employees, resources, ect) to develop something and then “Eh, lol. We can yoink that.” Copyright laws exist to protect and encourage innovation, if anyone could immediately reap the benefits of someone else’s new method of doing things or discovery would YOU pay for an R&D department when you could just effectively use someone else’s? It works that way in every market, not just software.

      • Oh and one more thing.

        “Copyright laws exist to protect and encourage innovation”.

        But you were actually implying:

        “Keeping source code proprietary protect and encourage innovation”

        One-word counter-argument: Firefox.

      • The FOSS movement is largely identified with the copyleft paradigm rather than copyright. So I agree with mechwarrior. Hahahahaha!

        Also, copyright does not cover methods and processes you idiot.

  • Well this article would never make its way here if it weren’t for the potential racism involved.
    Even if it’s quite old for some people, it’s still among the few tech-related news you can find here (anime, gaming and train stealing aside).

    • fatimmortal says:

      Actually, it sounds too good to not be true.

      I mean, China has been riding on the bandwagons of big companies around the world.

      You can’t be a well known company without groups of people in China trying to outdo you with imitated goods.

      I can only say that the only original thing that they have, is their mindsets and their “Chinese-food”.

      Of course, I’m not refering to ALL of the chinese people in China. Just those who have been doing all that piracy crap since god knows when.

  • El Gorongo says:

    Man. . . . I mean CMON!! I know Chinese goverment is doing all those crappy laws an trying to conquer the world and all that talk. . . But Hey, thats no reason for killing all chinese (most of them have no clue about whats going on), nor this is not communism’s fault (Chima and the USSR were never actually communists).

    I hate these chinese politicans and I hate Hugo Chavez, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Bin Laden and so on…
    but that alone is NOT enough to make me hate venezuelan, chinese or iranian people (like I said, its not their fault that their leaders are crap).

    • The problem being that someone who is ignorant and malleable is just as dangerous as someone who is ‘evil’. Don’t simplify it to just “their leaders being crap”. These leaders have huge support from a brainwashed public. The Chinese leadership and its population is a nationalistic, ambitious threat.

      • El Gorongo says:

        Agreed, ignorant people are also a threat to peace, but because of their condition (ignorance) they cant react properly to their leaders actions.
        However, in these countries the goverment is also responsible for providing education to the people, therefore givin politicians the chance to manipulate the population.

        Im not saying their leaders are crap because I hate them, but because of their actions. However I admit that they are certainly clever since they know how to manipulate politics, people and their own systems.

  • Europe: “what happen?”
    Japan: “someone set us up the bomb”
    Japan: “we get signal”
    US “what?”
    Japan: “main screen turn on”
    US: “it’s you!”
    China: “how are you gentlemen”
    China: “All your source codes are belong to us”
    China: “you are on the way to destruction”
    japan,europe,us:”what you say?”
    China: “you have no chance to survive make your time”
    China: “ha ha ha”

    *dance remix starts*

  • I have no idea what these moron companies think is going to happen but they basically are giving all their secrets to China so that eventually a Chinese company can replace them. This would be like if Pepsi gave Coke their secret recipe and said “give us some new customers”. lol. China was asked to do one thing in exchange for being given access to modern blue prints to build out their society and that’s to make simple stuff really cheap. They have failed at that task by exporting low level product and poisons yet they still are pulling foreigners around by their noses as if on a chain. Why doesn’t the entire developed world turn around to China and go “we’re out of here tomorrow if you don’t start respecting our intellectual property and copyrights”. Seriously, what would China do if that happened? Go take their cheap labor and export to 3rd world countries or places like Sudan, Bolivia, Myanmar, or Uzbekistan? Just all very strange.

  • http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/8471690

    The article linked above leads me to think that China is more concerned about being able to monitor their citizens (ie. breaking through their IT security systems if necessary) than about stealing IP. Potentially handing over the source code (to the IT security products) may allow the government to figure out how to hack these products (and the same products made for non-chinese markets if foreign companies are naive enough not to use a sufficiently tweaked design – though it would incur extra costs). It seems like China is trying again what it had failed previously – to get foreign companies to cripple their chinese-bound products with a “loophole” of sorts.

    • I should add that there are probably other reasons playing into this decision.

      For one, I’d imagine the Chinese government could also be worried that there may already be hidden “loopholes” within the foreign branded security products which could lead to the divulging of Chinese secrets. As well, I’m sure the government wouldn’t mind a bonus boost to their technology.

  • I’m looking forward to seeing how this works out.

    Who wants to place bets on who’ll end up losing more money? Options are: 1) Chinese 2) Western Corporations 3) Western Public.

    My bet is on the Chinese, followed by the w public. Corporations won’t lose that much money since they’ll just increase the prices of their products.

    Any other takers?

    • KajunBowser says:

      Okay, I’ll bet on the Chinese for this reason: they’re still buying US “IOUs” and we’re just throwing out money hot off the printing presses. If this keeps up, not only will we be screwed, but China and the rest of the Western world will be as well.

    • The chinese will just manufacture their own “bootleg” products at less than half the price, we will still buy made in china products because we don’t want to spend 3x the cost for roughly the same thing and the companies are going to lose money. This is why the companies are hesitant to pull their operations out of China, espicially now during this time of economic crisis if such a senario does occur then the entire American economy hits rock bottom. Although the possibility of the Western Public being surprisingly patriotic and only buying expensive Western made goods is a possibility too…

  • … well, even though this is horrible, it’s gonna be kinda hard to like pull out all operations in China, seeing that it is the world’s capital in cheap labour and plastics & other manufacturing… but despite the difficulties in relocating the factories, I am sure the companies would find a way. I mean, this is no less than intellectual theft, if you ask me.

    Btw, love the paper laptop XD

  • Meh, not really a big deal. I’m pretty sure that the Chinese government already got Windows XP source code from Microsoft, and have their own version of Linux. If Microsoft is willing to cave, what does everyone else have to hide?

  • I’m Chinese and I hate China. Thank God I wasn’t born in that Shithole. Sometimes I’m even ashamed to call myself Chinese.

    Ah fuck it, I should just learn Japanese until level 4 proficiency and pretend to be one. 😀

      • i’m replying to myself to break up the confusion.. i was replying to something else previous to these long posts.. but the system didnt seem to keep it in order.. sorry

        in other words im anon 12:53

    • woah..hold your fire there..it’s not really bad being chinese. there are many plus sides, like jackie chan and kung fu, jowk!

      But seriously, I, being a chinese, am a proud one. Remember that there’s no Japan if there’s no China.

      • Remember that there’s no Japan if there’s no China.

        Sounds like that crap my parents keep telling them. And I keep retorting , “There’s no Chinese without Africans”. And the funny thing is they totally hate Africans!

        Of course, they don’t know the out-of-Africa theory so they have no idea what I’m talking about. Ignoramus!

        • Tcaferta you’ve got the point and must be the only one talking sense here but theres something i dont agree with

          If China/Chinese gov. is the shite it is in the meantime it’s our freakin fault (western countries) mainly the US so imho this isn’t more than a natural reaction (Id say KARMA?).

          I would be proud if I were in your shoes too but just the same way I have pride in my country for its HISTORY and for other random reasons of course. The fact that China was a great country is HISTORY too and although Japan has inherited its culture, Japan has always had its own culture (anda far superiror one shall I say).

          Even when the portuguese were still discovering Asia back in the 1500s, Japan was seen as superior for its advanved ‘technology’ so we’re not talking about something that recent.
          In sum ‘Japan couldn’t have existed without China’ would be a more correct way to put it

          I acknowledge China’s greatness and love its culture (all from the past though) but for the time being I rather go to Taiwan where the real Chinese culture has been preserved for even that was fucked up by the govmt in China. You dont even use Trad Chinese any more (whats so difficult about it ?)

        • A theory can be used in terms of prediction after observation of empirical data, there is no real right or wrong way to use it. Do you know where the word originated from? The actual use of theory is contemplation or as a speculation. If you actually knew the true meaning you would have known this.

          Scientists use theory not much different than how most people use them. It uses continuity and correlations as it’s basis for argument mostly. Therefore it is a matter of prediction anyway. That meaning you provided in itself says theory can be used 2 ways. Even if there is evidence as it’s basis for a theory it doesn’t mean that there isn’t evidence against, which can completely throw that theory put forth. Hypothesis is an plausible explnation of a theory. In science a hypothesis can be tested, and if the results have coninuity and a supporting correlation, then the theory put forth is more true. But it sill doesn’t mean every theory is perfect because of that, if there are evidence against it.

        • People throw around the word “theory” because they use it in a manner that suits them: to mean something unproven. Educated scientists use the true meaning of the word, as shown here from the dictionary:

          “Theory, hypothesis are used in non-technical contexts to mean an untested idea or opinion. A theory in technical use is a more or less verified or established explanation accounting for known facts or phenomena: the theory of relativity. A hypothesis is a conjecture put forth as a possible explanation of phenomena or relations, which serves as a basis of argument or experimentation to reach the truth: This idea is only a hypothesis. “

        • Ok…this is looks messy here. If I’m getting this right Tcaferta is talking about culture that has been assimilated into Japan from China. While Anon there is talking about the genetic makeup that makes us similar, and Africa being the root of our (human) creation. *Caution tl;dr*

          ‘If’ that is it, then that’s a fairly bad comparison. For one, culture is a given. Just look at the British. Almost everything here is a mix of everything all around Europe. Japan has copied/taken/assimilated many Chinese culture into their own. Meaning if China wasn’t there Japan won’t be how it is today basically. Which is true, just like America wouldn’t be America if the European Colonists didn’t arrive, or UK not being UK if it wasn’t for all the EU tidbits. It would be foolish to deny it. There are plenty written evidence for all of this, but that’s not all. You can even find evidence from pre-historical (non written) findings.

          Now gentic makeup is a completely different story. You can’t really compare biology to something that is not really physical in terms of thoughts and measured as easily. In theory every person physical traits should technically be from Africa right to the bone. However that doesn’t mean the thoughts are. Now if the theory is true, which is likely, there is only one possiblity for there to be humans on different continents. They migrated or due to geographical changes got seprated from the mainland. Therfore those who seperated from the mainland would have to live differently due to many factors will have their own unique way of thinking. Thus why there are so many differnt beliefs, inventions, cultures. The reason why using this as a comparison is bad is pretty clear. It’s too general in itself, being that of course there wouldn’t be Chinese nor any other ‘race’ if there were no Africans, because it is the center of creation of humans. Then again some would say if there were no fish we wouldn’t be here lol. However culture, beliefs and inventive developmemt is mot.

          With the wide variety of people, there also comes wide variety of differences all around. It’s undeniable that some ethnicities are how they are today because of foreign ‘interventions’. If there’s anything I learned from Archaeology, we may have similar traits physically. But our thinking is as wide as the oceans. If some countries didn’t adopt, copy, change, steal, modify etc…none of them would become what it is today. Some were at the peak of inventions before other countries in the past; that being Egyptions, Greeks, Romans, Babylonians, Aztecs and of course Chinese. These were the catalysts really that drove foreign cultures to change greatly or adopt. Well that’s my take on things.

        • I am not even sure at this point that you have a clear idea of what you are even claiming.

          First, I don’t know which documents you are referring to specifically so I cannot hazard a guess as to their authenticity. In general however to assert that because some human wrote something is more compelling than genetic evidence is plainly stupid. Are you aware of some of the colorful explanations that humans have written for the settlement of the Americas by chance?

          Secondly, your reference to the kanji is vague. What do you think the introduction of written language in Japan means exactly?

          Everything you write looks like “LOL I AM DUM LOL” to me.

        • oh yeah, the biggest proof that I can give you is that the Japanese language is using Chinese characters! now I wonder how did chinese char get in the japanese language? they flew to japan? lol

        • now if you believe that those evidences that I am saying is prone to fabrication, that is a big no..why the hell should the Japanese and Chinese do that? just for pride? or fun? it’s true that Chi-Jap relationship is not that warm bcoz of WWII but just saying that the history about China-Japan linkage is maybe fake is way too wrong..

          and you’re seeking for the evidence that I’m saying? oh my god, u have internet connection right? (duh..) research it! you lazy!

          and btw this is finished, I just pointed out that comparing out-to-africa and Jap-Chi linkage is a bit too far, that’s it! now enjoy talking to yourself…

        • Your assertion that the genetic evidence for the Out-of-Africa model is more tenuous than some vague historical documentation, something that is prone to outright fabrication, is ridiculous. What written documentation, specifically, are you referring to? What specific claims about migration, and by which of the migrants to the archipelago are you going to make claims to? As it stands your statements aren’t “facts;” at best I have to guess about what you are talking about.

        • You have to be quite skeptical of genetics if you want to discard the Out-of-Africa model. Even some of the alternative models only push the timeframe back. You have to move to creation myths to escape common descent, at which point you are insane.

        • like what just I’ve said:

          “It’s also true that what’s happening ryt now is the opposite of what people are believing (i.e. Americans are racists, etc.) when in fact Asians (not all) are more racist than westerners…”

          read my comments first b4 commenting…

        • You are Chinese too right?

          I took a trip to Shanghai once, and the locals totally looked down on us. They look down on us because they think we are tainted and our Chinese is atrocious. If they can discriminate against overseas Chinese, what do they think of other races???

        • bravo for anon on that one.

          Yeah it’s true we must all follow what Europe is doing now: unite!

          It’s also true that what’s happening ryt now is the opposite of what people are believing (i.e. Americans are racists, etc.) when in fact Asians (not all) are more racist than westerners…

          @LunarSD
          now, now, don’t drag too much info about theories and histories here..

          I just pointed out that China-Japan link is much more believable because of its abundance on physical evidence while on the other hand, the out-of-africa theory has only meager evidence and yeah I’m not saying that theory can not be entitled as a history though..

        • Thank you for that. I was going to point out to Tcaferta that despite the “Theory” in the out-of-africa theory, there’s very strong evidence supporting it as being true. He only has to read about it.

        • Gravity is also a theory (how many more times will this phrase have to be repeated, I’m looking at you, human race).

          And there’s an entire planet of geographic and animal evolution/fossil/genetic evidence that the present land masses on Earth arrived at their present coordinates after drifting from one supercontinent.

          Might as well call it Africa, nobody bothered to name anything back then, but that doesn’t disqualify it as history.

        • “this statement proves how ignorant you are..lol”

          That was sarcasm. I was being sarcastic at you. In my opinion the Theory of Evolution is pretty much proven fact, despite it’s name. Of course religious people will say otherwise.

        • I agree with you on that.

          Honestly speaking, the main reason for my hatred of being Chinese was the racial arrogance that I experienced as a child. My parents kept trying to impose their beliefs onto me, that the Chinese were a superior race with superior language, culture traditions blah blah blah.

          It did not help that my favourite language was English, due to my love for Science and English literature. The language of Science is truly English, that is indisputable. 95% of all scientific papers is published in English, and I felt it was more important to focus my efforts on the English language.

          I personally feel that the racism in China is gonna be a huge obstacle in the unification of the World. In that aspect I admire the Europeans for the European Union. I won’t be surprised if in the next 100 years Europe becomes a single country, or at least a loose Federation. That can be a framework for the rest of the world to follow.

        • …which means the Japan-China fact that your parents are claiming is true and can be proved with millions of scrolls and artifacts while that africa theory of yours is, well, just as i’ve said, only a theory..

          but I agree that the Chinese should not hate Africans though, we should be friends with each other, it is time for all countries to unite as one, I believe that it is better for the majority to have all the countries be united and renamed as simply as “Earth”. Being divided only slows our progress through success!

        • JC is just a jerk who mispoken a line which made his community think that he’s right wing and suddenly made war and snubbed him..

          just like here in SC, you make a mistake on you’re comments, you’re dissed..

          this is how the effin world works, f yeah!

        • oh yeah totally forgot that incomplete article of yours..

          later it was said that a spokesperson of Jackie Chan claimed that JC is referring to the taiwanese and hong kong press and media not the people and government as a whole..

          now if you believe that statement or not, it’s up to you..

  • well, if anything the wealthy western companies could simply stop trying to produce their shit at a discount by using low wage workers in foreign lands and give some of those jobs to citizens in their own countries. doesn’t sound so bad when you probe beneath the veneer of “righteous” indignation.

  • Sure China’s economy is doing ok while so many others are hiccuping, but isn’t now a little too early in the game to begin technological appropriation like it was a first step toward world conquest?

    Strategically speaking, shouldn’t they have waited until they had more assurance that their competitors might actually be forced to let them get away with such a move?

    I know I haven’t played Risk or the like in a while, but…

    (just being objective here, playing devil’s advocate)

    • MelancholyMomo says:

      To be honest I actually think China has chosen the perfect time to do this…

      Think about it.. if any firm/organisation/country choose to decline and decide not to operate in China, they will undoubtedly lose a substantial amount of money.. after all China can provide good quality (?) cheap labour.. and are currently doing so, manufacturing a hefty proportion of the worlds goods (especially technology)..

      If this was the past when the global economy was booming.. maybe most major Western cooperations would be confident enough to reject this new law..

      but can they currently do that..? most are probably teetering right at the brink of liquidation.. and the few that arn’t are probably concerned with their future prospects and their confidence levels would be near rock bottom..

      + it is also easy to say.. Western firms should just raise the price of their goods and services.. but again.. easier said than done.. any normal consumers would understandibly be against the price of goods and services going up.. how then would a consumer being hit hard due to the current economic climate react..

      Not that I am supporting this new law.. I find it dispicable (couldn’t think of an appropriate word).. maybe disgusting..

      p.s. The world would be a much better place if there were no such thing as borders..

  • Yay…eventually China will get to copy their own version of the F1 Ferrari (called the “fail-lalee”), the PS3 (called the “Pi-Yi 3”), and their own version of System of A Down’s “Chop Suey” (called…well…”Chop Suey).

    No offense, but this law is much more ridiculous than the one in Britain about Basket Pushers…..

    • not just a little bit… try doubling or tripling the cost, I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m not gonna start paying double the price for everything even if it means china does take over the world just like how they already took over the economic trade market…

        • u r either an ignoramus or just an idiot, try speaking sensibly or shut the f… up. we 1st world countries or or more correctly,foreign devil’s have been ‘raping these’ 2nd/3rd’ country’s in all of south east asia and india of all their resourses for our own profits and leaving them bare, for centuries. china is just making sure we don’t add them to ur list of conquests. remember what americans have done to their own native indians and what the british empire have done to the aborigini’s or to any natives from any where we invaded. us 1st worlder’s r a disgrace to humankind.

  • For a long time I’ve been saying get the products out of China and produce them somewhere else. China is riddled with bootleg computers, game machines and software. They are going to keep doing it no matter what, so why not take the jobs elsewhere to teach them a lesson!

    • Because the “foreign devils” can only think about the juicy profits to be made from using cheap chinese labour… until the western firms change their business structures the results will be the same no matter which 3rd world country the goods are produced in! They certainly cannot move production to a 2nd or 1st world country because the immediate massive devaluation of their company shares would result in bankruptcy! They dug their own grave…

    • well… with this new law it might actualy do it i can not see this being a good thing for china in a resetion thou.. i mean there suffering as it is imagen if every none-national pulls all the busniess out the country at once… it will go under so fast youd think there was a black hole at the bottem, mind you it would be a massive impact for every major company to they would actualy have to move to a country where they have to pay people a bit of cash ahaha.. ooo hay look i found out where are new jobs are coming from XD

      this could have ammusing results

      • Hahahaha yes, very amusing indeed XD… this is like a stab to their own feet. I mean, the trade-off of paying the labourers some extra money against intellectual theft and eventual loss of sales due to competitors utilizing the same ideas, designs, and source codes as you is quite obvious. With the sudden pulling out of all those foreign companies though, it would be very amusing to see how fast China’s economy will fail.

        • (When 1/6th of the world’s population lives there, it’s probably rather easy to get a half to wear some shirt. ^_^)

          But on a rather opposite note. China is ultimately doing this because it now has/pretends that it is a world leader and therefore can muscle around their policies more. (Sound a bit like another country I know of.) Personally, while I would love to be less dependent on foreign sources for our security, the fact remains that with the inevitable globalization that technology brings (Just look at where we are posting.) Any sort of isolationist xenophobia about a country is just not going to work without the shit hitting the collective fan that is everyone. What we really need is to diversify our production to sources other than China and Southeast Asia over time in general (This includes homeland jobs.) and not give them as much clout with our wallets as they’ve been having.

          Also, company executives need to man up with the lost market opportunity and suck it. As they say, you get what you pay for, and if that results in your secrets being marketed off because you wanted to have a more “competitive” product, then oh well.
          Besides, if they were really good entrepreneurs as opposed to Daddy’s little rich kid who is fucking unqualified for anything other than sucking up, they can put a spin on the issue and make themselves look good.

          But judging from the previous track records from GM/AIG/Madoff/etc. I personally don’t see American companies as having any form of responsibility to pull that move.

        • true..true.. they also have companies for different types of product like lead infested toys and melanin covered milk… i doubt they will be hard pressed due to a few companies leaving…
          It’s worth a shot for them big gain small loss…

        • アノニモウス says:

          So what if the economy crumbles? This is exactly bankers and corporations around the world want. Poor economy will only make it easy to mass control people.

          But there is no way China is going to crumble even if all electronic manufacturers pull out. 2/3 of the world population will still be wearing “made in china” clothes.

          And it certainly won’t happen before climate change leaves the country without the ability to feed it’s population.

        • MelancholyMomo says:

          Easier said than done… especially in the current climate, if a economic powerhouse like China falls i doubt the global economy would be able to even get out of this recession/credit crunch/economic downturn/whatever, let alone be able to recover..

          Not that I am supporting this new law.. I find it dispicable (couldn’t think of an appropriate word).. maybe disgusting..

  • I, for one, welcome our new Chinese overlords!

    As for the IP bullshit that’s so prevalent:
    “Sometimes Meeker switches between “intellectual property” and “copyright” as if they were two names for the same thing. Sometimes she switches between “intellectual property” and patents as if they were two names for the same thing. Having studied those two laws, Meeker knows they are vastly different; all they have in common is a rough sketch of their form.

    Other “intellectual property” laws don’t even share that much with them. The implication that you can treat them all as the same thing is fundamentally misleading.

    Along with the term “intellectual property” goes a false understanding of what these laws are for. Meeker speaks of an “ethos” of “intellectual property” that exists in the U.S. because “intellectual property is in the Constitution.” That’s the mother of all mistakes.

    What is really in the U.S. Constitution? It doesn’t mention “intellectual property”, and it says nothing at all about most of the laws that term covers. Only two of them — copyright law and patent law — are treated there.

    What does the Constitution say about them? What is its ethos? It is nothing like the “intellectual property ethos” that Meeker imagines.

    What the Constitution says is that copyright law and patent law are optional. They need not exist. It says that if they do exist, their purpose is to provide a public benefit — to promote progress by providing artificial incentives.

    They are not rights that their holders are entitled to; they are artificial privileges that we might, or might not, want to hand out to encourage people to do what we find useful.

    It’s a wise policy. Too bad Congress — which has to carry it out on our behalf — takes its orders from Hollywood and Microsoft instead of from us.

    If you appreciate the U.S. Constitution’s wisdom, don’t let “intellectual property” into your ethos; don’t let the “intellectual property” meme infect your mind.

    Practically speaking, copyright and patent and trademark law have only one thing in common: Each is legitimate only as far as it serves the public interest. Your interest in your freedom is a part of the public interest that must be served.”

    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-ip-ethos.html

    • There is hardly any incentive to innovate apart from the public interest altruism if you don’t charge monopoly price for something with the marginal cost of basically 0. You seem to have a firm conviction in public interest, but you’ve got to get out of your own box and realise different people probably have different idea about public interest as much as their private interest. Perhaps there are lots of people out there who don’t even think all these crazy computer crap is in public interest! One of the reasons why most of the developed world has chosen free market over planned economy is because history has shown that it was more than difficult to centrally coordinate “interest” and resources, thus the economy, so they’ve resolved to leave it to a mechanism of rules instead, and that mechanism is called market. Yes it’s devoid of heart and neurotically pious to this crazy faith that somehow everything would work itself out. Even more challenging than other problems associated with property in capitalism, “intellectual property” faces the inevitability of monopoly, either by evil corporates or the governments. However, history has demonstrated that government / public sector was ineffective in forcing people to innovate, USSR was a good example of the chaotic allocation of resources, and invention tainted with other agenda. I knew some brilliant white hats who staunchly advocated open source, and as much as they, and perhaps you, who believe in the possibility of a free sharing, free creating network of innovation because of your own ability and good heart, but it’s not feasible at the wider level beyond your immediate circle. Just like one might share a cake with their families but not all the strangers in a park, it’s nothing but an Utopian pipedream to imagine everyone being in a big family of sharing and caring. It’s simply beyond sensible cognition to ask people not to objectify what’s beyond familiar to them. it will work if the whole world is white hat, as much as communism will work if everyone is communist, as much as free market libertarianism will work if everyone is perfectly rational with perfect access to information.

      I’m neither a free-marketer nor a socialist so my take is that, at the end of the day, whichever sustains incentives to innovate should be the chosen system. This move by China is certainly highly beneficial to the Chinese public interest at the expense of the foreign countries investing there, by basically legally robbing other people’s innovation. This is not an issue of intellectual property as much as the blatant assertion of might by an ever more powerful authoritarian regime. Powerful governments are pragmatic and they will remove intellectual property or impose intellectual property which ever they see fit. But at the end of the day, the innovation of this world is clearly shown in patents, which the USA has 1/3 of all, and China & my country Australia have only just over 1% respectively. It’s curious why such an evil system of intellectual property create innovation, isn’t it?

      • My main gripes, which you’ve glossed over, are

        1. pretending that the patents, copyright and trademarks are faces of the term ‘intellectual property’, when in reality, these three are considered and _act_ very different from one another.

        2. pretending that ‘intellectual property’ is anything like physical property.

        Instead, you’ve introduced new gripes of mine:

        1. using the terms communism and socialism as if they were synonyms.

        2. equating patents with ‘innovation’. There’s nothing to brag about in having a third of the worlds patents when those patents do not serve the purpose they’re supposed to: instead of ‘patently clear’ descriptions of process made available in exchange for a period of protection, today they are unreadable, obfuscated and a veritable minefield: inventors dare not risk reading patents because they, simultaneously, can’t understand the deliberately confusing verbiage, but they’re also liable for triple the damages if they _do_ happen to infringe the patent they attempted to read.

        Of the triumvirate, copyright isn’t in all that better shape: Shakespeare would have the pants sued off him if he tried to pull the stuff he did today.

        2.5 using the word ‘innovation’ akin to IP, without actually defining it.

        3. equating libre software with socialism. Consider the following nugget:

        “A quarter century ago, when Richard Stallman was upset with the trend away from free software, he didn’t run to Congress seeking legal changes. Rather, he sat down and started building an alternative. One that we know today as the GNU/Linux operating system. He did so without a penny of government support, and without expropriating any resources from his proprietary competitors.

        And in the process, he provided a powerful counterexample to many of the standard tropes of copyright and patent debates. In a world where some of the most popular websites on Earth are built on the LAMP stack, it’s awfully hard to argue with a straight face that creativity will only happen if creators are given monopoly rights in their creations. The rest of us can argue until they’re blue in the face about what a world with weaker copyright or patent protections would look like, but Stallman and company have bypassed that debate entirely by offering an existence proof of what an alternative world would look like. It’s awfully hard to argue something can’t happen when it obviously has.” from http://techliberation.com/2009/03/17/moglens-socialist-revolution/

        How is that not in the spirit of the free market?

        Forgive me for not addressing other points you might have raised; I’d be willing to debate on one of these points, but arguing them all is both futile and a waste of time.