With the recent court decision to quash the sale of DS hack devices, or “majikon”, Nintendo has been celebrating a “victory over piracy”, but voices are not unanimous in supporting the move, with some even suggesting it may hurt Nintendo more than it helps them.
Nintendo themselves claim a 3 billion dollar loss to the piracy…
Quoth a report on the subject by ITmedia:
“On the other hand, there is also a significant “majikon preservation” minority, who say ‘prohibiting sales has gone too far’.
‘There are many who are just backing up their game collections, as well as those running homebrew, so it’s not the case at all that everyone using a majikon is just intent on playing for free.’
Just how many support such views is not clear. There are also those who sound intent on justifying majikon use by whatever means, saying that the ban ‘violates the Unfair Competition Prevention Law’, and is therefore invalid.
‘There are many products with potentially illegal uses still being sold. Why have they only targeted the majikon for restrictions, and not these others?’
‘Makers who don’t publish games which make people want to play so much that they will pay bear responsibility for this.’
‘If majikon are no longer around, gamers will decrease in numbers even further.’”
Nintendo for its part is claiming a loss of 300,000,000,000 yen (or 3 billion dollars) to piracy, doubtless based on the usual optimistic arithmetic of “copies made times RRP”…
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well living in asia this item sounds useful for back-up for games.... i for one suffer fro, the ds card rusting due to humidity... i own maybe 5 or more games now officially unplayable....
Quite the hypocrite bullshit allright.
These "Mommy gave me money, I'm a happy snickers kid" truly do amuse me.
Piracy is stealing my ass. Just like it was said.
What do the companies really lose? Nothing, piracy is actually more profitable than what it does harm.
Do you retards really think that if some guy doesn't download that movie/game/whatever from TEH INTERNETS he'll just go and buy it?
I've downloaded countless games, movies and bloody anime and I can still agree to have been a zillion times more profitable to the providers than most of you "PIRACY IS STEALING" retards.
I've put something around 4000$ in just anime.
I've "marketed" it to god knows how many friends, them putting atleast a 1000$ And I'm an unemployed poor fuck. What would've I put in the anime industry had I not ever watched fansubs and thus never encountering anime in the first place? Not a fucking thing.
And what does the average "PIRACY IS A CRIME!!" retard do.
You cry about "PIRACY IS A CRIME! YOU HAS NO RIGHT" with the money your daddy gave you and just go fuck yourself.
I'm for NDS piracy. One, we can watch and make gameplay videos without using a camera. Two, we can play the game on a bigger screen. Three, we can rip out the sprites and make flash movies off it.
But I become against it when people make money off piracy.
I don't justify piracy to the point I want it to be legal, but I don't want to stop playing video games.
On that case, does anyone else here download anime? The biggest reason I have to download that, is because I don't want to see it dubbed on my tv.
Then you have no reason to download at all, eh?
DUBS ARE FANTASTIC, weeaboo.
I love how companies always pull those numbers out of their asses...
You know how they come up with those? They project an average number of games people with R4 have, multiply that to an average price, and there you have it.
But they certainly don't consider lots of people have R4 for roms and homebrew only, they certainly don't consider most people wouldn't buy all the games they have in cart, and the most important thing: Lots of people wouldn't even consider buying a DS if it wasn't for carts like R4.
Playing Devil Survivor by an hacking cadridge right now.
People who talk about not pirating are just fucking retarded hypocrites or faggots. Who the fuck doesn't want stuff for free? Can you guys say you've never download a single thing off the intarwebs? Grow up.
Good call SnooSnoo....everyone who took the "piracy is wrong" highroad in this thread no doubt downloads anime illegally. If you watch a current anime series from Japan, you are breaking the law. The legal way to watch anime is to wait years for a local release and if you don't get a release, the legal thing to do is NOT watch.
It is also illegal to record TV shows with a VCR so that you can watch them later.
In what countries?
All that obey national copyright laws, IE: The US, UK, Japan, etc.
Funimation would like to have a word with you..
agree...
It'd be great if Nintendo could make an option to let people download games off their site for a cheaper payment ie: less material wasted on crafting a box and cartridge. this means the consumer would have less trash to hang around and takes up less space while enjoying their 20+ games in one cartridge. kind of like what ipod does with its mp3s. all nintendo would need to do is to track their customer with a special code etc... and pay via visa or other methods. it's the friggin' digital age.
I'd rather have mangas that I can download and read off my computer than a whole bookshelf of it. in case an earthquake happens, at least I wouldn't die getting buried by the books.
Who uses DS flashcarts for just backup and homebrew?
Hell I EVEN OWN one and have not paid a dime to nintendo other then the cost of the handheld itself.
Is the image fanart for Devil Survivor?
I believe so, although it looks pretty professional!
I support NDS video game piracy. Chrono Trigger is the only game I actually own.
And probably the only one you should pirate since it's a cash-in.
The rest...? But whatever. People are hard to sway once they find a way to justify their immoral behavior.
I'm sure YOU are a paragon of virtue.
You don't download doujins or anime, music, games or films, you don't use a cracked copy of your favourite anti-virus software, your copy of Windows Vista Ultimate is of course legit, hell, you even paid for Total Commander!
Go be a hypocrite somewhere else, please.
With his "derp derp immoral behaviour".
Dumbass.
Where'd the other anonymous even come close to saying that, dumbass?
Ah, such is the problems with selling systems at a loss. If people don't buy the software then you lose money anyway.
Not to say that piracy ever really KILLS gaming, it's more of a backlash against the fact that even though gaming has gotten much bigger (more people buying games, more people playing games) and cheaper to at least distribute (though not to make), the price of the average game remains perhaps stupid high. I don't think a modern game should retail for $50 -- that should be the absolute maximum, at least, and not the average.
Nintendo doesn't sell their systems at a loss. They make money for each DS and Wii they sell.
Also, the price of games are what they are, because game companies need to make money. Games are, believe it or not, VERY expensive to make, and a ton of games don't even make a profit. They've tried to strike a balance with price for years. If they sell the games for too little, they'll never make the development costs back. But if they sell them for too much, they won't sell any copies anyway. The prices of games now, is the best balance they can do. You can't expect publishers to sell their games for pennies and still turn a profit.
Mario -
I think there was a good article on this on Kotaku (blech) about why games are maintaining that price. Sure companies need to make money, but it's more like the development costs for games have skyrocketed because of how advanced these next gen (minus the Wii) systems are. Budgets for AAA titles run quite high, and that's why stuff is STILL priced $50 regardless of whether or not it's a piece of crap.
I still applaud companies who have the foresight to price good games at lower prices, or deliver it via a cheaper means of distribution, those same means that anti-piracy activists yell against when people pirate games - this gets the game to the player easily, and removes the middleman that marks it up. Everyone wins (except the middleman - screw you Gamestop). The company doesn't have to waste money on producing boxes, box art, and/or printing all that extraneous stuff. You get your manual in a convenient PDF format that you can print for cheap, and you have a digital copy of the game you can make a legal backup up in case your computer blows up. Make it cheaper and easier to get, and there's less of a reason to pirate it.
But seriously, no matter how hard companies try to stop piracy, it'll happen. Look at the can of worms that EA created with Spore's draconian DRM. That kind of stuff is just foolish judgement on EA's part. I think game companies have to realize that their games are going to get pirated, no matter how draconian they make their DRM measures are or whether or not they take things to court.
Valve even made a statement about how they ACCEPT the fact pirating happens, and instead of busting out the lawyers and going after the piraters, they actually look at the piraters as potential consumers. Sure you didn't make money off them for the initial purchase of the game, but what about offering DLC for both the legitimate gamers and the piraters? Piraters pay more for the DLC, legitimate gamers get like a 80% discount. Or what about making the DLC only available for legitimate gamers and making it so that the legitimate gamers have a significant advantage ingame over the piraters? There's different ways to do this. None are the best, but turning a blind eye to the fact pirating happens and calling every single pirater out there low life scum is going about the wrong way, in my opinion.
Btw, wwesome how you posted on 13:37:37.
"Games are, believe it or not, VERY expensive to make"
Even total trippe like Anubis II?
Nintendo doesn't make much at all on their systems, a few dollars if they're lucky. That's a big difference compared to the losses their competitors take on hardware, but does it mean they're making a profit on DS and Wii hardware sales? Hardly. Software sales? Yes.
They make a heck of a lot more on each console sold then you realize. I assure you that it's a lot more then, "a few dollars". Obviously they make a lot of money on their software as well. But they make a KILLING on their hardware alone.
But the point is they push out alot of units and a side effect is software is bought eventually. Alienating consumers and protecting mafias over public rights is not a good idea.
It dose not matter if the hardware can infringe, by itself it is innocent.
What?! i can't fap to this...
lawl!
I love when they come up with figures like that, it just makes them look stupid and not very convincing at all.
If the number of gamers decrease because they can't play for free, then it sounds like there are too many gamers already. Anyway, the loss of this device will only be a temporary setback for the gamers. A new will be along shortly, I'm sure.
This ban only banned one type of device, right? I have only seen one mentioned so far, at least. And the ones I have, neither of them are that.
it just means that to get the cards you'd have to go through a bit more trouble. but it's not like this ban is going to stop it completely.
I think you're right on both accounts.
This is sure going to be big headache.. =~=
Why is it going to be a headache? Now that people actually have to pay for things?
man, this sucks. also how you can't get them in north america.
wtf you mean you cant get them in North america I see tons of them in China down... in Vancouver, BC, canada anyways :P
because Vancouver is basically ASIA town so it's obvious that they would get these DS game cards.
And thats why Western Canada is better than Eastern canada :D
Hey, that's not nice...I'm originally from the east coast and would return in a heartbeat if I had the opportunity, even though I'm still technically on the east coast, just further north ;)
Who cares really. Im glad this was done and people are looking for an excuse for them to allow it back.
Thats like saying that more people buy bongs for tobacco, which we all know its a lie. I say every company should ban these things and make it so the sytem/handheld shut down/breaks if they even use it
we all know that eastern canada sucks.
I live there.
Why does it sucks?
Because then you can't pirate DS games anymore?
Get a life and a job dude, if you can't afford a game, then you have no rights to play it.
And if you want to get homebrew crap, that's what the DSWare is for in the already out in Japan, and coming soon (April) elsewhere, DSi.
It's pretty selfish to say that piracy is justified because the games are expensive. Video games are a luxury, and luxuries are generally expensive. It's not like stealing bread for your family because a loaf costs $100. You don't require games to live. Stop bitching over the cost of things you don't even need.
That mentality is pretty common - "I shouldn't have to pay for this because I have special circumstances." It's childish, plain and simple. If I had to pay $40 for Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon, so do you. YOU AREN'T SPECIAL.
I don't bust my ass from nine to five, deal with snotty higher-ups all day, and earn my paycheck to come home to some nice Sankaku Complex and read about some moron who thinks Piracy is Robin Hood-esque. Please. Save that for your other jobless friends who sit in their Mom's basement playing pirated Halo and eating Cheetos. Anyone with half a brain and a quarter-ounce of work ethic knows you're just some kid talking out his ass.
It's called "getting a real fucking job," and you need to Wikipedia that shit.
Homenbrew "crap"?! Homebrew stuff is awesome, especially if you make it yourself.
"Why does it sucks?"
No, you fag, I've never pirated a DS game before. It's so I can use it as a platform for something other than just shitty, gimmicky touch screen games. R4's aren't just for ROMs.
Correction: they are just for ROMs, but not all of the ROMs have to be pirated games. :-p
DSware is NOT homebrew...at least in the sense that a lot of people know it as.
Either way, I actually write homebrew and it seems like a shame to completely ban these devices. HOWEVER, the GBA MP works fairly well, dosn't support piracy, but works great with homebrew. I use that and Datal's Games N' Music (which I don't' recommend...but, I won it from them for free from a homebrew contest).
Somehow, I really wonder just how much money is being "lost". Either way, this comming from someone who does not pirate DS games (nor has the hardware to do it...just hardware to develop and play homebrew).
Amen brother! Stop being cheap little brats and buy your games. These never had quite the following in Japan that they do in the rest of Asia, and to a lesser extent Europe and Americas. You see the shadey sellers in the back streets of Akiba, but the Japanese in general are far more honest, and like having a box in hand.
Cheers to PS3 for being uncracked still. Piracy is no longer a bunch of friends trading games on BBS, bless those days. It's now every cheap ass spoiled college kid who thinks he NEEDS every game, and even working adults who just have no morals and plenty of money to purchase them.
Piracy exists because of capitalism (it competes against the companies selling the games in order to drive down prices, which is normally considered a good factor in economics, but hey, what do I know.)
It also happens to be very convenient. Would you rather (a) a single device with 20+ games on it which you can flip between at whim, or (b) a case to carry around 20+ physical cartridges? Personally it has not been just once that I was swapping carts and the bus I was on hit the brakes, causing the cartridge to scoot. I haven't lost any yet, and I won't lose any more, because I'm using a "piracy" device to play my bought games now.
PSP is even more extreme. Using UMDs means you waste heaps of space carrying them around. Plus they can scratch if you are unlucky when you drop one. Plus they drain more power. Plus they are slower.
Game companies should take notice of these usability flaws in their model, fix them, and *then* bitch about piracy.
That's like, your opinion man.
Urgh, I hate to say this but piracy does exists for a reason. I do have to admit that Malaysia is considered a "third-world country" along with several other countries in South East Asia. Piracy is almost a way of life for most of us here, almost everything that we use are either pirated or cheaply made. Not everyone here earns a lot like most well develop countries do, so its something (however bad you look at it) that we really, really appreciate having....
Its not like everyone can buy games... $5-10 games cost like $50 if converted here thanks to corruption... AND they are all so late released... Now lets say we have a new game pretend new FF... The country can't provide... Plus it is nearly impossible to order online... How the hell are you going to get the game? Work hard go to some other country and buy? I did that once... Got myself a lot of games when I went overseas... But what about other games?
Earn you right to play the games you want. If you’re poor then GO GET A JOB. People work off their asses so that they can live the life they want to. <= This idiot says this? I'm already moving out of this country and its taking me 3 years just to fix the papers... Now where would I get the games? If you could give me ways of getting games then do tell me... Oh ya... I'm not poor by the way... Its just that the process here annoys me... This country ain't internet friendly... Got a Wii (with original games that I got during my vacation out the country) and I can't even use the Wii shop...
You obviously didn't even read his post, but sure go ahead and rant. I bet a game doesn't cost you half your paycheck though.
Not everyone has the same possibilities as people who live in well developed countries. So according to you all the people who live in poor countries who wouldn't have been able to afford the games anyway should just refrain from playing games alltogether?
At least this way they buy the console, get your fucking head out of your ass Piracy does not, in any way, equal stealing. Don't swallow the bullshit the corporations are feeding you.
LOL at the people saying that the games companies don't think about the poor people or the poor jobless college kids.
Have your ever realized that Videogames are a luxury? They aren't meant to be cheap entertainment as it is the TV, the cine or the main entertainment of them all, the sex (it can be debated that the sex can get very expensive, but that just depends on the girl you are dating, or the whore house you are going to).
Anyway, videogames aren't meant for everybody in the world, videogames cost too much to make, and making a top game cost something like $5 or $10 USD (comparable to cinema tickets around the world), would make the games even less profitable they are right now, specially for HD games.
The videogames industry is no mainstream enough yet to be able to profit like the cinema industry. Maybe in 2 or 3 generations more, if the videogames have turned to be mainstream enough, when there is not 100 million units of the market leader portable or home console, but something like 500 millions, where the average B game would sell 1M at least worlwide and AAA games would go over 25-30M units, then the price of games could be cut down to more affordable prices.
But right now, is just insane to think about that, specially during this economic situation where game companies are closing, merging or being bought out because of the high costs of making games and the low profits - I correct myself - high losses, due to not enough sales.
Nothing beats the originals... But yes... South East Asian countries suck... They don't provide games... So we have no choice but to pirate...
Ordering online costs us a fortune with the damn local tax whatever things... I mean... I just went to the mall the other day and the latest games I saw was Tales of the Abyss, Smackdown vs Raw 2008... Those games were released years back and ToA already has an anime...
This country should stop spending on road projects and spend more on games and anime... Anime here sucks too by the way...
They should not be wasting their monies on trinkets and baubles when in poverty.
you all egoistic retard!
have you ever gone to southeast asia?
GAME COMPANY DOESNT CARE ABOUT SOUTH EAST ASIA!!
The game price and the cost of life is imbalanced, think about this, your wage is around 120$ and the average game price is 20-60$
So what? Are you insane enough to spend your entire living cost fo a game??
NO! and thats when piracy comes!
They want to enjoy what the western and japan country enjoy, but then some bloke says 'Give it back to us, only people with money can enjoy games!'
Wakes up and try to live in third world country for three years idiot! And you will know for us piracy is robin hood for us!
Sorry bro, copyright infringement is copyright infringement. You aren't permanently stealing data so someone else can't use it, thus it isn't theft.
It's almost amazing how many people refer to piracy as "stealing". The RIAA didn't manage much, but it got that bit of propaganda spread far and wide.
Being poor or living in a third world country IS NOT AN EXCUSE!!! If you want a game then PAY FOR IT. Earn you right to play the games you want. If you're poor then GO GET A JOB. People work off their asses so that they can live the life they want to. Piracy sucks! Robinhood my ass! He's just a common thief! He justifies stealing. That guy who mentioned "piracy is robinhood for us" is either a retard or lacks education. AND YOU (the Robinhood fan) HAVE THE GUTS TO CALL OTHERS EGOISTIC RETARDS?!?!?!?!? LOOK WHO'S TALKING!!! IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SPEND MONEY FOR GAMES THEN JUST GET THE HELL AWAY FROM GAMING, YOU INCONSIDERATE PRICK!!! GO BACK TO SCHOOL AND LEARN A THING OR TWO IN LIVING AN HONEST LIFE!!!
I have more respect for poor people who works honestly than those who just WAIT and DO NOTHING.
It sucks that you live in a self-titled "third-world country," but I'm not sure that gives you the right to pirate. Where do you draw the line? Will you slit someone's throat for an iPod? How about an apple?
But maybe you're right. Capitalism is a big part of the problem, and if stealing from the beast can make life more tolerable, maybe that's all right.
Then, again, where do you draw the line? Who is it okay to steal from and who is it not okay to?
Some of us can't afford to throw money at game companies for every single game that comes out, especially when they may or may not actually be GOOD. I still regret buying Animal Crossing Wild World.
for all of you thinking "WTF PIRACY IS UNACCEPTABLE".
Think.
The situations is as such:
a restaurant throws away leftovers, and you are way too poor to eat at that restaurant, even if you work VERY hard.
The restaurant then prohibits people to scavenge their trash can, with the idea that "if they can't get it from our trash can, they'll have to buy it from us."
They can't buy it anyway.
They actually only trying get leftovers (no support, no patches, no online experience etc).
The profit loss is imaginary at best.
If a beggar dreams of eating a steak, even if it's a leftover, would you condemn him?
Do you think, if a beggar is given money, would he pay for the steak? You decide.
Because that's what living in third world country is like compared to the rest of the world.
Try living there, where an annual income of $1000 is considered very luxurious.
Then we'll sit down and decide things.
Now do you understand?
Lol at the person who said "read reviews" reviews are trash
More often than not reviews are completely wrong, either it's because they're being paid off or because they have poor taste
People, if you can't pay then don't.
It's called priorities.
glottis has pretty much summed it up
They're calculating the loss by presuming everyone who downloads a game would have bought it otherwise, that's complete bullcrap
Lol, who reads reviews. If I trusted reviews to tell me what games I like, I may as well have someone tell me what to wear, eat or act every day. I'm not poor, but it's such a waste of money to spend 40 bux on, of all things, a DS game when there's better things to spend the money on. The concept of 'if it's not worth spending your money on then it's not worth having' is a worthless one, because I can like what I like. Unfortunately the DS hardly had what I liked: Thus, I have a R4.
And If it had a lot of games I liked, then i'd still have an R4. It's convenience anyway: Even If i was buying the games, why would I carry all of them around on me? The R4 cured one of handheld gaming's biggest failings: having to carry around the game with you.
I am digressing: It's late. The point I'm trying to make is that you can't rely on someone else's ideals when it's your enjoyment at stake. And enjoyment isn't as fleeting as you'd think.
If you can’t afford to, then don’t. Don’t buy everything that comes out. Read some reviews and buy what you think is quality. You don’t need to play everything. Your excuse sucks. <-- So, instead of trying the games, and finding out whether they are good or not...
you recommend that I throw money at game companies based on biased reviews? Remember: there is NO unbiased review in any gaming magazine or on any gaming website. ANYWHERE.
If my excuse sucks, then your retort swallows!
To add to my previous post: thanks to my "try then buy" mentality, I have avoided at least ten extremely unplayable games (Sonic Chronicles being one of them), and have enjoyed and purchased The World Ends With You, and the first three of four Ace Attorney games. Next on my list are Gyakuten Kenji and Fire Emblem - Shadow Dragon.
I do pay my respects eventually. Plus, it's nice to have a physical copy.
"Remember: there is NO unbiased review in any gaming magazine or on any gaming website. ANYWHERE."
You obviously never checked Zero Punctuation...
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/video/view/zero-punctuation
this is why video shops rent them out, why some libraries let you borrow them, why games shops trade in pre owned games and why people who like games in general have friends also interested in them. if you don't like a piece of crap based purely on what you have experienced with it before, why would you buy it given the chance.
if a game company is willing to let it's merchandise be rented out via places like "video ezy" then they must have some pretty good faith in the product. in most cases i would recommend that you take the opportunity to rent a game out if you think you might like it before shelling out your hard earned bucks on something that ultimately you might end up thinking is crap. either that, or visit a friend who has the game and play it there to see if you like it or not. it's much safer than taking the option that will have the mib chasing you down for illegal production of copyrite materials...
In many cases, reviews tell you next to nothing, as game magazines tend to be paid handsomely by the manufacturers of reviewed products. Case in point: Gothic 3. Gorgeous graphics, wonderful story, interesting characters - so I bought it, and OH MY LACK OF GOD it was completely unplayable. Never mind the billions of bugs, I was too busy swearing at the non-modifiable keyboard settings to notice that.
Gotta agree with anon here. I'm ass-poor but love games, so I read reviews, decide whether a game's worth the time and money and buy them used or old so they cost me only half or less the price.
Although I love homebrew stuff (some mini games are awesome) I'm not into pirating my games.
But then again I'm no hacker so buying them legit is less work for me.
If you can't afford to, then don't. Don't buy everything that comes out. Read some reviews and buy what you think is quality. You don't need to play everything. Your excuse sucks.
Because the device had uses outside of mere "infringement".....
Who cares really. Im glad this was done and people are looking for an excuse for them to allow it back.
Thats like saying that more people buy bongs for tobacco, which we all know its a lie. I say every company should ban these things and make it so the sytem/handheld shut down/breaks if they even use it
Get a job, or save money and buy the actual game
That's like saying you should make bongs illegal.
The 1% who are smoking tobacco will be pissed.