Sankaku Complex Forums » General

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    GTR

    ...?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. First of all, it's a republican state
    second, handley didn't want to have a long court fight. which lead to prosecutors scaring him into pleading guilty.

    The ACLU can't help you if you don't wanna fight it.

    and third of all, in the U.S it's illegal;
    according to the quote from that site "Title 18, United States Code, Section 1466A(b)(1), which prohibits the possession of any type of visual depiction, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct that is obscene."

    They do keep track of everything and he probably bought a large shipment to get noticed by the feds.

    but the ACLU can help you in misinterpretation of the law, not a violation of it, and here it is clearly illegal and specified.

    Mourn him :)

    [Insert Loli Image here]

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. You left out one important part:

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001466---A000-.html

    (a) In General.— Any person who, in a circumstance described in subsection (d), knowingly produces, distributes, receives, or possesses with intent to distribute, a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that—
    (1)
    (A) depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and
    (B) is obscene; or
    (2)
    (A) depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex; and
    (B) lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value;

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. Welcome to the land of creeping fascism. Republiklan, Democrap...it doesn't matter; they've all got one goal in mind, which is stripping the citizens of their Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms. Once I'm done with my education I think it's time to abandon ship before it capsizes completely.

    Edit: I believe they'd previously ruled parts of the Protect Act unconstitutional anyway. What the hell happened to that? It it only a precedent when there's a conviction?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. Weird, the link that the main forum gives me for this thread is this:
    http://www.sankakucomplex.com/forums/topic.php?id=851#post-19720

    edit: nvm, seems to be okay after I posted here. 0_0

    Posted 8 years ago #
  6. Vicious said:
    and third of all, in the U.S it's illegal;
    according to the quote from that site "Title 18, United States Code, Section 1466A(b)(1), which prohibits the possession of any type of visual depiction, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct that is obscene."

    They do keep track of everything and he probably bought a large shipment to get noticed by the feds.

    but the ACLU can help you in misinterpretation of the law, not a violation of it, and here it is clearly illegal and specified.

    No, ACLU can help you to fight the law they consider unconstitutional.

    But I don't know if they would want to fight in this case. They might not want to fight if they deem the chances that SCOTUS strikes down this law very low. Or they could be even scared to fight this law while the anti-pedo witch hunt got worse since 2002 or because they're under pressure because of some other issues atm.

    Michio said:
    You left out one important part:

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001466---A000-.html

    (a) In General.— Any person who, in a circumstance described in subsection (d), knowingly produces, distributes, receives, or possesses with intent to distribute, a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that—
    (1)
    (A) depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and
    (B) is obscene; or
    (2)
    (A) depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex; and
    (B) lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value;

    Actually, the line you highlighted belongs to the part of this law that was already deemed unconstitutional in Handley's trial. Handley pleaded guilty to violate (1) not (2). The latter requires Miller Test which includes the same line as in (1) and two more:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test

    Obviously Handley was afraid that the jury would consider the drawings in question obscene. And I wouldn't say that his fear was unfounded.
    I guess, now that he pleaded guilty, it'll be more useful for these who try to enforce this law if Handley was only fined and put on probation rather than in jail.

    The whole situation with bans of obscene drawings and texts reminds me of Nazi Germany. The most people are too stupid or too ignorant to understand the real implications of this politics. Anyone who sincerely tried to understand what it leads to should be horrified, yet the politicians and media only tell people what the latter want/expect to hear. But who is to blame for this vicious circle? People never learn from their mistakes. OK, may be they learn "not to push the red button" after they got owned as they pushed it. But they'll never learn "to analyze well implications of pushing of buttons". So they'll push a yellow or a pink button (or a pedal) as a knee jerk reaction.

    ###
    On a side note, guess I should have tried to contact the staff asking to move my thread in General instead of just asking it in the thread *sigh*
    http://www.sankakucomplex.com/forums/topic.php?id=826

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. Is there something new here? A rage inducing guilty verdict?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. Hayami said:
    The whole situation with bans of obscene drawings and texts reminds me of Nazi Germany.

    I thought this was country was run by Nazis ever since the turn of the century. We don't get freedom loving politicians, we get scumbags who work for their own power hungry agenda. Anybody that believes otherwise is a genuine fool.

    Hayami said:
    The most people are too stupid or too ignorant to understand the real implications of this politics. Anyone who sincerely tried to understand what it leads to should be horrified, yet the politicians and media only tell people what the latter want/expect to hear. But who is to blame for this vicious circle? People never learn from their mistakes.

    Bingo! Hitler was right in one thing: the vast majority of people are absolutely stupid. And that's still how tyrants operate today, except they don't hold military parades or stick out their arms and shout "Heil Hitler!" when they meet. Anybody that actually cares these days votes for Ron Paul...you noticed how great his voter turnout was. ~_~ All the general electorate thinks about is "Red vs. Blue."

    The dumbing down of the populace is largely a result of poor education (in the younger generations) and tainted media, including propaganda laced television and other forms of electronic media; people take the elections about as seriously as they do American Idol. They're told that everything is fine and under control, and that the nanny state will take care of everything...well they'll be taking care of EVERYTHING soon enough. R.I.P Freedom in the West.

    Artefact said:
    Is there something new here? A rage inducing guilty verdict?

    Unfortunately I guess it's not anything new anymore. The precedent is rapidly becoming established; the next thing you know they'll start busting down doors and serving warrants for people suspected of having loli images.

    Edit: By the way, 256 bit encryption is your friend. See "Truecrypt".

    Edit2: I posed this question on Y!A just to see what the people online had to say. Seems at least a few have a clue.

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AqyOUZm57ftSRY20rQmJDvHsy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20090522135237AAtb1Sy

    Posted 8 years ago #
  9. Unlike with real CP, loli images are rampant throughout the internet. I'm not sure any sort of clear law prohibiting drawn loli would be able to be reasonably enforced.

    Also, the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund (CBLDF) are the people who were helping Handley in his case. http://www.cbldf.org/pr/archives/000372.shtml

    That is until Handley pleaded guilty.

    In general I agree Hayami and Blitz, lack of education breeds ignorance which breeds bad legislation.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  10. The ACLU CAN fight is as unconstitutional (first amendment anyone?) but sadly the ACLU is not a libertarian group, it' is a democrat group fighting for democrat causes. Nothing against democrats but the ACLU only protect one group of people. We honestly need another such group the closest we have is the comic book legal defense fund although there is an international free press society that helped the Danes after the mohammed cartoons.

    Hitler once said "the people will surrender ANY freedom if it is for the protection of the children. For this reason the state must position itself as the protector of the children." - Mein Kampf

    Posted 8 years ago #
  11. Mangonel said:
    I'm not sure any sort of clear law prohibiting drawn loli would be able to be reasonably enforced.

    --> See the prohibition of drugs like marijuana...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  12. Artefact said:
    Is there something new here? A rage inducing guilty verdict?

    Enjoy, Mr. Artefact.

    CBLDF.
    Chicago Tribune.

    Beako might have to go really quickly through puberty, if you wish to keep backup servers in the US.

    I'm legally speechless.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  13. Make this a post artefact, it will cause 300+ rage comments.

    By the way this is scary. I'm not buying anything through the mail in the future that has lolis or shotas in it.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  14. If you want to read something really outrageous, here you go. Posted by AnimeFriend @ japanator May 21 & 22, 2009:

    Hello all. I am a close friend of Chris' family. To shed some light on what happened, I thought I would share what I know. It was his own lawyer that encouraged him to take the plea. His lawyer convinced him that the case could not be won, and that he would be better off to plea to the lesser charge. However, it is my understanding that Chris was mislead in this. From what we were told, the lesser charge was simply the possession and import of obscene materials. He was also told that if he plead out, that he would more than likely not see any time as he has been on probation this whole time and has not been any kind of a threat to society since he had been placed on probation. Many of us that know Chris, are just as disappointed and upset as many of you. It is a miscarriage of justice, and with any luck it can be appealed.
    .
    I feel that his lawyer failed him greatly. This really is a travesty, especially considering the kind of money that was paid to this lawyer and to his defense. This whole situation has been an incredible blow, not only to the anime community, but to the art world at large. I will pass on well wishes to his family. Thank you all for your support and thoughts over the last couple of years, and God willing, hopefully this won't happen to anyone else out there. But just in case, a word to the wise, don't forget...Big brother is watching.

    .
    (...)
    (quote)Does anyone know if the drawings were of anime girls or if they were like realistic drawings of little girls(I have seen some that look like the artist used real life references for his drawings).(/quote)
    .
    They were anime. Not realistic drawings of little girls.
    .
    One thing that I had forgotten to add in my above post, was what his lawyer had told him. According to a conversation I had with his sister just a few hours ago, his lawyer had told him a month or so ago that if he took the plea then he would be plea bargaining down to possession of obscene materials. Nothing mentioning obscene materials with children in them. Also that he would not serve any time in jail because he's been a good boy while he was on probation, and that his fine would be under a grand. His family is rather upset over the whole thing and is like every one else, in wishing that he hadn't taken the plea. However, it all came down to what his lawyer wanted to do. His lawyer didn't want to fight it. So, he threw Chris under the bus.
    .
    Quite honestly, I don't think it really matters what drawings are of anyway. Why does it matter? What one man considers to be art, another man will consider garbage. If the feds are able to go after people for cartoons, and that's what they are folks, cartoons, then what is going to stop them from going after other forms of art? They have already been able to shut down websites because of dirty stories, which like this case, has no real life victims in them. How long is it going to be before they start putting us all in playpens and dictate everything that we say, see, or do?
    http://www.japanator.com/elephant/post.phtml?pk=9978
    .
    So who is this lawyer? Eric Chase? http://www.uniteddefensegroup.com/bio_eric_chase.htm
    .
    http://www.comicbookresources.com/?id=18412&page=article , October 13th, 2008
    Eric Chase and his team at the United Defense Group have been vigorously defending Handley (...)
    .
    Eric Chase recognized the importance of the case, and of the CBLDF's contribution to it, in a statement to the CBLDF: "This case represents the latest in a string of efforts by the Department of Justice to encroach on free speech. The United Defense Group is committed to fighting to maintain the protections guaranteed in the Constitution, and we appreciate the CBLDF's support in this fight."

    .
    http://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/11/24/neil-gaiman-on-the-obscenity-of-manga-collector-christopher-handleys-trial/ , November 24, 2008
    “There is explicit sex in yaoi comics,” Handley’s lawyer Eric Chase told MTV. “And the men are drawn in a very androgynous style, which has the effect of making them look really young. There’s a real taboo in Japan about showing pubic hair, so they’re all drawn without it, which also makes them look young. So what concerned the authorities were the depictions of children in explicit sexual situations that they believed to be obscene. But there are no actual children. It was all very crude images from a comic book.”

    Posted 8 years ago #
  15. Thanks for sharing that. I hope this gets some media attention such as in the case of the Australian man. Maybe I'll get to hear Bill O'Reilly share his rage-inducing thoughts like in the previous case. >__>

    Posted 8 years ago #
  16. Great to hear that the lawyer was just fighting for his pay. </sarcasm> If I had a scum lawyer like that and they tried to throw me under the bus I'd have fired his or her ass on the spot.

    And I agree....this story should have been made a post (unless I missed it somehow). I doubt many people even knew about this case, as critical as it was.

    Thanks for the share, Hayami.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  17. Michio said:
    Make this a post artefact, it will cause 300+ rage comments.

    By the way this is scary. I'm not buying anything through the mail in the future that has lolis or shotas in it.

    Blitz said:
    And I agree....this story should have been made a post (unless I missed it somehow). I doubt many people even knew about this case, as critical as it was.


    This can be a good litmus test to see how often (or never) Artefact checks random posts in the forum section.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  18. I can't edit my last post anymore, but I'd like to add that I can't disagree with mangablog's advice either:

    A commenter at Japanator claims to be a friend of Handley’s and explains the logic behind the plea bargain. [COLOR="Red"]However, the commenter is anonymous and this is the internet, so some skepticism may be in order.[/COLOR]

    .
    It would be nice if Handley or anyone who knows him personally confirmed it. I'd really like to know (be 100% sure) if it's true.
    .
    Earlier there was a similar comment @ icaruscomics, Justice on May 16, 2009 at 11:43 am :
    This whole case makes me sick.

    After getting to know Chris and talking with him and learning about the whole matter… it just scares me to think if I have to ask myself if the next dvd I buy… the next graphic novel I buy… legally as far as I can tell would wind up netting me a felony charge. Crazy….
    .
    While I don’t feel comfortable saying much but I really wish his attorney would actually feel like there was a chance of winning this case. I dunno… when even your attorney suggests that a person take a plea bargain (with idea of what sentence you will receive its no minimum to several years in jail and ADMITTING what you did was wrong and NEVER able to go back and reconsider) things are seriously fucked up in my eyes.
    .
    6 days until Friday… *sigh*

    http://www.icaruscomics.com/wp_web/?p=2930&cpage=1#comment-45193
    (no idea if it's the same person)
    .
    Also, I can't resist to share this quote posted by CCSYueh on ANN few days ago.
    .
    In reply to hikaru004's:
    We also have a virtual child porn law.

    Both are wrong and that's why we have attorneys.

    CCSYueh:
    And most people have a pretty low opinion of lawyers, don't they?
    What's the dif between a lawyer & a flounder?
    One's a scum-sucking bottom-feeder & the other is a fish
    (I got that from one of the officers I work with)

    Posted 8 years ago #
  19. Wait what the fuck? Chris Handley's lawyer has been arrested for child pornography before? This is ridiculous, and if soccer moms get in on this shit, they're going to assume Mr. Handley has possession of Japanese child pornography or something.

    I hope this gets big in the media sometime.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  20. Michio said:
    Chris Handley's lawyer has been arrested for child pornography before?

    I don't think so... Where did you get this info?

    Posted 8 years ago #

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