Sankaku Complex Forums » General

Pedophilia

  1. This is turning into more of a monologue than a discussion, but anyway, I shall trod on.

    Here's another good article that I came across, slightly more recent than the previous two I linked:

    Sexual Fascism in Progressive America

    I particularly liked this quote: "The most basic notions of the rule of law -- that you should not be punished for what you cannot help, like the feelings you have, that no-one should be expected to obey laws so vague that the criteria of obedience are mysterious -- were thrown away years ago."

    I was sure somebody here had linked me to this, but I can't find the link now. Maybe I clicked through to it from another link... :?

    Paedophilia: The Radical Case, by Tom O'Carroll

    A radical case indeed, but also surprisingly persuasive. Reading this text really reinforced my feelings of just how screwed up society is. And it's depressing to think how little hope there is of ever witnessing such a drastic reform. I mean, it's not just about having sex with kids, it's about civil rights, sexual identity, being more honest and transparent about sex throughout society, helping to raise children better (which means *less* abuse), promoting real tolerance, and defending love instead of hate. It's amazing to think how quickly we, as a collective unit, can look at an expression of love and quench it with an unbearable torrent of hatred.

    I shouldn't be surprised; I'm well aware of how quickly rationality is tossed out the window when it comes to religious beliefs, but it still baffles me that so many people can't at least *talk* about something like this rationally, and hypothesize, even just for a moment, the possibility that pedophilia isn't what the media and modern pop culture makes it out to be. The scary thing is, I can understand the hysterical angle, I know where people are coming from, but what bothers me is people's general inability to get beyond that and allow reason to dispel the illusion. It's as if they simply don't *want* to believe. And when that leads to innocent people being oppressed, that pisses me off.

    I watched a movie the other day with a short scene involving a stereotypical "child molester" character. I tried to view it with the perspective of a pro-pedophilia stance (okay, not much of a stretch for me :p). And despite the fact that the young girl involved in the encounter was rather attractive (:3), I still felt uncomfortable about the scene. And the reason is that this character was acting in a predatory manner. When normal people think of pedophilia, they think of people like that, and if somebody tries to defend pedophilia, they think they're defending that kind of behavior. Now, I can't speak for the true motivations of anyone aside from myself, but regardless, why must we *assume* that this caricature is the only possible representation of pedophilia, and that anyone suggesting otherwise is lying for their own benefit?

    I think most people would say, "if banning any and all sexual interaction between children and adults gets rid of the predators, then it's worth it even if a few innocent people get trampled as a result." In other words, the rewards justify the costs. Well, I never could find myself in agreement with that sort of thinking. At any rate, the issue must be weighed considerably differently if you're one of those innocent people being trampled on. I may be one of them; if not, I can surely sympathize. The bottom line, as *I* see it, is that the magnitude of the anti-pedophilia sentiment currently in vogue is no more effective a solution against the victimization of innocents (adults *and* children), than a pro-pedophilia stance would be; assuming, as any *rational* minded person would, that a pro-pedophilia stance supports only "good" interactions between adults and children, and not things like abuse and rape and molestation and exploitation and anything of that sort.

    The trouble, I guess, is that no one seems to be able to concede that there is such a thing as a good interaction between adults and children that involves the slightest hint of intentional sexuality (or hell, even unintentional or imagined sexuality). Also, that kids aren't "ready" for sex, and are simply incapable of consenting to such acts. These are notions that I feel we must re-evaluate, as a society. And even if it's too much to hope for any kind of actual radical change, I demand at the very least, that we learn to *accept* the struggle of pedophilia, and become able to talk about it calmly and rationally, without submitting to demonization and moral outrage.

    Some quotes I liked:

    "Why couldn't they see that by rejecting love, by making those who offered it feel alienated and despised, they were doing everything in their power to turn kind, useful people into embittered, dangerous ones?"

    "There is no reason to suppose that anyone's sexual orientation per se has any intrinsic connection with her or his merit as a human being."

    "What it boils down to is simply a gut feeling that sex in childhood is wrong, or dangerous, and it doesn't matter what kind of 'argument' is pressed into service against it: the approach seems to be 'Never mind the argument, feel the conclusion.'"

    "What we have to encourage is a society in which shame does not attach to involvement in any consensual sexual behaviour."

    And this one got me thinking:

    "Paedophiles are for the most part interested in older children. A survey among members of the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) showed that male paedophiles tend to be most attracted to boys aged 11-15, and to girls aged 8-11. This corresponds closely to findings by Mohr, Turner and Jerry and other researchers. Very few paedophiles are attracted to babies or infants, and although there is some interest (expressed as a minimum age of interest) in those aged five or six, the preferred age appears to be considerably older."

    The age disparity between gender can be attributed to an earlier pubertal cycle in girls. Elsewhere the author explains a pedophile's primary attraction to children that are themselves sexually active (with the goal being consensual pleasure - not one-sided abuse). At any rate, this gets me wondering if the whole "prepubescent" aspect of pedophilia is really as important a distinction as I (and surely others) have heretofore made it.

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
  2. tl;dr posts = win

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
  3. That was very instructive. And that is one more book to buy for me.

    The problem with "rationality" is that it is a subjective concept. Most of the anti-paedophilia crew - including my own mother, who was abused as a child - see themselves as rational and the pro-paedophilia as irrational.

    Think about it for a moment: what determines whether something is "rational" or not? No criteria has been established, and even if there were, they would have been created by a human being and therefore irremediably biased.

    On another topic entirely, as you seem to have appreciable talents as a writer, would you be inclined to participate in our pro-freedom of speech movement? (http://www.sankakucomplex.com/forums/topic.php?id=1184)

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
  4. Azarius said:
    The problem with "rationality" is that it is a subjective concept. Most of the anti-paedophilia crew - including my own mother, who was abused as a child - see themselves as rational and the pro-paedophilia as irrational.

    I suppose you have a point; I'm not gonna be unfair and presume that I don't have as much of a subjective bias on the issue as anyone might, regardless of which side they're on. However, I do think there is a fundamental objectivity to the concept of rationality, whether easily determined or not. I know there are people who would argue against that, so I can't necessarily present it as a basic truth. However, the point I'm after when I complain about irrationality with regards to this hysteria, is that when I observe (read about) actual pedophiles calmly discussing their personal understanding of what it is to be a pedophile, in an attempt to combat media stereotypes, and then the predictable masses come down with their conditioned cries of "monster!", without making any attempt to actually *listen* - I see that as rationality being confronted with irrationality.

    Surely, there are anti-pedophiles who are capable of approaching the issue rationally, but they're unfortunately not the ones making the majority of the commotion (nor the policies, it would seem).

    Azarius said:
    On another topic entirely, as you seem to have appreciable talents as a writer, would you be inclined to participate in our pro-freedom of speech movement? (http://www.sankakucomplex.com/forums/topic.php?id=1184)

    My talent, if you could call it that, can be fickle, but freedom of speech is surely among my interests, so if there's any way I could be of assistance, I'd be happy to contribute.

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
  5. You haven't heard the last of me!

    Hayami said:
    ...probably the scariest report I've ever seen >.<

    If you want to hear a horror story, I just read about the McMartin Preschool Trial - mass hysteria exploding from one paranoid schizophrenic mother's delusions. It's like something out of pure fiction...

    "It was alleged that, in addition to having been sexually abused, they saw witches fly, traveled in a hot-air balloon, and were taken through underground tunnels. When shown a series of photographs by Danny Davis, the McMartins' lawyer, one child identified actor Chuck Norris as one of the abusers."

    "There were claims of orgies at car washes and airports, and of children being flushed down toilets to secret rooms where they would be abused, then cleaned up and presented back to their unsuspecting parents."

    It is of particular note that - I presume due to the length of the trial - despite all charges eventually being dismissed, the primary defendant spent five years in jail without ever receiving a conviction. So much for innocent until proven guilty. :/

    There's an interesting account of the trial phenomenon on this page, about halfway down (do a search for "McMartin Preschool").

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
  6. Michio said:
    I've been having an exchange from the recent "delicious caek" post. I don't understand why there is so much hatred toward pedophiles. People are confusing their words when they say "pedophile" then go on to talk about child rape or something.

    Pedophile = One who is attracted to children.
    Child molestor = One who molests children.

    Rape crimes aren't always about sexual desire either. Rape is also a crime of violence and domination. A child molestor, does not even have to be a pedophile. And of course being a pedophile does not automatically mean you follow children home after school.

    I do not think pedophilia is a choice, and I'm guessing there are many pedophiles out there who wish they weren't and yet they just are. The things people say toward pedophiles is disturbing. Lightly, someone will say pedophiles should be locked up forever and have their penises chopped off or something, and they'll be serious about it.

    I'm wondering if a lot of the stigma toward pedophiles has been brought on by various media exaggerating the problem and doing their best to cause soccer moms all over to shit a brick so they'll tune in at 8 for more garbage. I'd be interested to know what people thought of pedophilia before news media became commercialized and you didn't have a lot of these shock/entertainment shows.

    I don't even see why murders or rapes should even make news headlines unless it involves some prominent public figure. Unless it's about rising or falling crime statistics, there should be no reason for that stuff to grace news media.

    "Omg did you hear about that 7 year old girl that was raped? I had no idea this stuff happens before my news anchor told me about! There's this new show out called 'To Catch a Predator' with Chris Hansen. They lure these sick child predators/pedophiles/sickos on the internet and put them in jail. Thank god for that. I hope every one of these fucks rots in hell."

    POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote

Reply

You must log in to post.