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Loli = art or porn?

  1. Here is the thing, if the majority of society says it is porn, and if the court in your nation says it is illegal, then that's all that counts eh.

    Because being obstinate, and refusing to bend, might only end up with you in jail. And then you have to ask yourself if your opinion on the matter was truly worth it.

    And that's really what it's about eh, is it really worth it?

    Always remember to pick your battles wisely, because it's your life you might be screwing around with.
    And is your personal freedom worth enough to you, that you can be forced to find something else to draw.

    The people on the internet, that like to merrily play with themselves looking at art that might in some nations be considered criminal, won't shed a tear if you get arrested. They'll just move on to the next artist.

    It's like piracy, I didn't care when they crushed Napster, didn't care when Supernova was destroyed, was not surprised that Piratebay eventually was defeated and I know that Mininova won't be the last victim. There will be others, and I just move on.

    I think loli is images under 13, NOT images depicting people over 12. And that is ONLY an opinion, and no basis to risk one's freedom over. I also think images have NO age, and that art is not really different that a photo of a person.
    An image of Lumière of the series Kiddy Grade for instance. Looks like loli, and a judge not having seen the show might treat her as a child, and I would gladly state matter of factly, 'your honour, she's old enough to be your grand mother, so cut the loli crap out'.

    How old are images really? Are they as old as they are from the point of creation? ie if drawn 5 years ago they are 5 years old? These 'persons' never breathed, never existed. They are not some individual which is being written about that previously lived either (unless that is specifically stipulated ie a drawing of a real person from their youth).

    My only objection to loli, that is under 13, where the image IS an image of a person that IS under 13, is I find people masturbating thinking of having sex with the individual is undesirable. And the undesirability escalates rapidly the younger the image gets. Past 10 and the disgust likely reaches critical mass to the point it no longer matters how much further you go.

    But that's all just opinion eh.
    And my opinion appears to have no relevance to Canadian criminal law.

    Wanting to draw loli, even if you are indeed a properly trained artist, is what it is. It's an admission you find loli interesting. And you have to expect it will be given the reaction you should expect it to generate.
    You might as well admit to finding sex with corpses fascinating.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  2. Sukunai said:

    I think loli is images under 13, NOT images depicting people over 12. And that is ONLY an opinion, and no basis to risk one's freedom over. I also think images have NO age, and that art is not really different that a photo of a person.
    An image of Lumière of the series Kiddy Grade for instance. Looks like loli, and a judge not having seen the show might treat her as a child, and I would gladly state matter of factly, 'your honour, she's old enough to be your grand mother, so cut the loli crap out'.

    How old are images really? Are they as old as they are from the point of creation? ie if drawn 5 years ago they are 5 years old? These 'persons' never breathed, never existed. They are not some individual which is being written about that previously lived either (unless that is specifically stipulated ie a drawing of a real person from their youth).

    My only objection to loli, that is under 13, where the image IS an image of a person that IS under 13, is I find people masturbating thinking of having sex with the individual is undesirable. And the undesirability escalates rapidly the younger the image gets. Past 10 and the disgust likely reaches critical mass to the point it no longer matters how much further you go.

    But that's all just opinion eh.
    And my opinion appears to have no relevance to Canadian criminal law.

    The only wrong I ever see in loli is if it's like, raping babies to 5 year olds... or rape in general. I mean, if this is what confuses me. I don't particularly like rape porn - I mean, good for you if you like it - but I feel sick when I see it, and I feel bad, because it's a sad image, and it's something that still happens to people today. I couldn't image how I'd act or what I'd go through if that actually happened to me.
    However...
    Fiction, like in the case where the lolis are the ones who are initiating the sex (and it's reciprocated on both ends...), that's a case of just a person doing what they want. Of course that barely happens in the real world but I mean.. it's fiction. :/
    Same goes for the "I look like I'm 12, but I'm actually like 3000 years old". It's fiction, and it shouldn't even be counted. :|
    I actually wonder out of how many people who look at 2D loli, how many would actually go out and rape a child. orz

    Also... I'm Canadian. OTL

    Sukunai said:

    Wanting to draw loli, even if you are indeed a properly trained artist, is what it is. It's an admission you find loli interesting. And you have to expect it will be given the reaction you should expect it to generate.
    You might as well admit to finding sex with corpses fascinating.

    Urk.
    At least lolis are living.
    But if that's what floats your boat that's cool. '_'

    Posted 6 years ago #
  3. SaruDa said:
    From birth, we pretty much accept whatever we're told(By our parents, by our friends, by the television) wholesale. Every day I wake up, I thank god, the powers that be, and/or humanity that I had the good fortune of being exposed to Otaku culture, one of the many experiences that have broadened my world-view and allowed me to think outside of my personal box. Other such experiences include massive amounts of thinking, but it is always more efficient to be exposed to non-standard world-views.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that society isn't always more correct than individuals, so reject society, reject the world, and decide what 'right' and 'wrong' really mean for yourself. Then, and only then modify your own actions to keep yourself from getting in trouble for your world-view. We've seen it on Sankaku a lot lately, western society is trying to reject loli art and pornography, and Japan is implicit. How we choose to individually respond to those facts is something that we can only decide for ourselves, because at the end of the day we're not society, and society is just a group of countless individuals like ourselves. If you want to draw loli art, then stretch the limits, find out how much you can get away with legally in your country.

    I'd also like to mention, the whole concept of male perverts being normal and female perverts being strange is ridiculously skewed on so many levels.

    Also yes, this is very well said, I couldn't agree more.
    Thanks everyone for your input. :x

    Posted 6 years ago #
  4. Oshaikeuchi said:

    Also... I'm Canadian. OTL

    Being your in Canada please be careful, because your loli drawings are not protected by the law unless you can prove that it has artistic merit, and proving artistic merit in anything isn't particularly easy.

    I figure you probably already know this but I would rather just make sure.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  5. Avatar Image

    Nin

    Wasn't there this article on the main site about Canada and loli recently? I'm gonna have a look for it.

    [Edit] Oh, nevermind. It was this article I remember, but it doesn't have any relation to the topic at hand. sorry.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  6. Oshaikeuchi I concur about rape. I don't find rape appealing under any variation.

    I don't like imagining in visually or in written form or in more ordinary forms of film.

    Just me, but I am totally incapable of thinking of harming females.
    If it isn't mutual and both ways, it is a turn off.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  7. There are consensual couples who fulfill rape/reverse rape fantasies through BDSM.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  8. It isn't rape if you 'arrange it'.

    Rape is one or more persons using you against your will how they wish when they wish where they wish as often as they wish and the victim really IS a victim.

    If you play act out rape with your spouse, it isn't rape.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  9. Sukunai said:

    If you play act out rape with your spouse, it isn't rape.

    To add to this it's termed Roleplay just not the nerd kind.

    Though to me as long as it's fantasy i'm cool rape i'm okay with in hentai in RL however i think rapists are among the lowest beings in existence and should be dealt with on sight.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  10. Here are two examples of real art, Balthus and Hans Bellmer. Follow the masters. The intellectual content must be greater than the erotic content. The more erotic an images is, the more likely it is to be seen as porn. There is a prejudice in some countries against images more than writing, so be careful. These countries have spread their poison to many other places.

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    1. Bellmer-1a.JPG 6 years old
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    Posted 6 years ago #
  11. Sorrior said:

    To add to this it's termed Roleplay just not the nerd kind.

    Though to me as long as it's fantasy i'm cool rape i'm okay with in hentai in RL however i think rapists are among the lowest beings in existence and should be dealt with on sight.

    Thanks, that is exactly what I was attempting to imply. It's as Sukunai said, but rape in fiction and pornography is exactly the same as BDSM. It's not Rape. Of course, that doesn't mean there's anything(wrong) with personally disliking it, just as there's nothing wrong with personally disliking anything.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  12. Loli is loli, I can't define it, but I definitely

    Attachments

    1. 1214154511565.jpg 6 years old
    Posted 6 years ago #
  13. Bass said:
    Loli is loli, I can't define it, but I definitely

    Spend A few months here and you will belive me. I came here "tainted" but if you're not and stick around long enough ANYTHING fictional at least will be all right. say anyone have tat at first i was like sancon pic with lucky star characters?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  14. Sorrior said:

    Spend A few months here and you will belive me. I came here "tainted" but if you're not and stick around long enough ANYTHING fictional at least will be all right. say anyone have tat at first i was like sancon pic with lucky star characters?

    I totally agree with you on this one, I was much less accepting of a lot of things, before I started spending a lot of time here, probably last February, and now I can look at almost anything without thinking it's "wrong". still don't like guro though that won't really change.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  15. Same for me guro and scat for the most part as in 1 in 10,000 images will i actually look at. But as i also said i came pre "tainted" and was already reading loli shota as well as other sick shit wasn't into tentacles and beast yet though.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  16. Sorrior said:
    Same for me guro and scat for the most part as in 1 in 10,000 images will i actually look at. But as i also said i came pre "tainted" and was already reading loli shota as well as other sick shit wasn't into tentacles and beast yet though.

    wut?

    i'm shocked!!!

    Posted 6 years ago #
  17. momokiller said:

    wut?

    i'm shocked!!!

    I am now one of the first scenes of teknoman international got me into it also showed me the one of the rare instances i dig guro tentacles went through some guys turned me on and i dunno why. Beastiality was from a doujin about DoA characters kasumi got raped by a dog and it turned me on when zack mentioned how she couldn't escape for 30 minutes after it started cumming.

    Oh and it's not the pick i wanted but it's close.

    FOUND IT THAT damn pic so i may as well post both.

    I started my life on sancon at that's nice by the way.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  18. LOL that's so nice....
    It's because Dr. House digs other stuff. Like Wilson. :x
    ...I don't blame him, though. D: *Secret crush*

    I'm the same now too, though.
    "Someone's penis got mutilated? Oh okay."

    I'm still pretty close minded about guro though. And necrophilia. I will never be able to comprehend it. :x

    Posted 6 years ago #
  19. As I see it, a trap that is drawn as a girl is really a girl. It's a picture, it isn't real.

    You can say oh by the way that image is actually a guy and I respond with, looks like a girl, it's a girl.

    Traps only count in real life when there really IS a cock under those panties. And we call those cross dressers/transvestites and a slew of other rather nasty terms normally.

    Worst thing that can happen to a straight guy, is to mistake a cross dresser/transvestite for a girl.

    But if it's drawn as a girl, it's a girl. Because an image can only be what it is, just an image.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  20. Sukunai said:
    As I see it, a trap that is drawn as a girl is really a girl. It's a picture, it isn't real.

    You can say oh by the way that image is actually a guy and I respond with, looks like a girl, it's a girl.

    Traps only count in real life when there really IS a cock under those panties. And we call those cross dressers/transvestites and a slew of other rather nasty terms normally.

    Worst thing that can happen to a straight guy, is to mistake a cross dresser/transvestite for a girl.

    But if it's drawn as a girl, it's a girl. Because an image can only be what it is, just an image.

    I remember checking some h-mangas and sometimes i noticed exactly the same loli characters were shotas in another h-manga.
    So keep the same body,face,change the genitals and you have a shota or loli right away.

    Posted 6 years ago #

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