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  1. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10147171-38.html

    The US supreme court has ruled the Child Online protection act unconstitutional because honestly there is no 100% way to prevent kids from looking at websites that have porn (accept for good parenting) So the website owner is not responsible if the kid lies about his age and faps to some oppai idols. ACLU lawyer Chris Hansen in a statement said the responsibility to raise a kid lies on the family and not the government.

    needless to say one of the dissenting votes came from a woman, Sandra Day O'conner. Chick's just don't understand porn.

    This makes me hopeful in case a loli case comes before this supreme court.

    pic unrelated I just love to post lolicon humor from japan.

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    1. pedo.jpg 7 years old
    Posted 7 years ago # Quote
  2. That picture is awesome, and hilarious.

    Posted 7 years ago # Quote
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    Is this in the US, because there is a very large chance loli will be banned in the UK on Monday (See the laws of underage Hentai topic page 1, there's a link by Anon)?

    Posted 7 years ago # Quote
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    "But the court didn't seem to want to revisit COPA a third time. Wednesday's ruling was a mere refusal to even hear the case, issued without explanation."

    Posted 7 years ago # Quote
  5. anonymous said:
    Is this in the US, because there is a very large chance loli will be banned in the UK on Monday (See the laws of underage Hentai topic page 1, there's a link by Anon)?

    I feel sorry for you guys over there. Well, worst case scenario, you can just come over to the America. That's what we Americans did when the English were on our cases back in the 1600-1700's.

    Posted 7 years ago # Quote
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    Spoony_Bard said:

    I feel sorry for you guys over there. Well, worst case scenario, you can just come over to the America. That's what we Americans did when the English were on our cases back in the 1600-1700's.

    It's pretty terrible, unfortunately I will not be able to visit this forum if things turn for the worst because of some images on certain sections (like laws on underage hentai, a few pics were "Oh so related"), which really saddens me.

    Anyway the final reading in Parliament is the 26 January (I think), how likely will these measures be passed (I remember it only affects a minority, oh dear)?

    Posted 7 years ago # Quote
  7. America celebrates 2009
    England Celebrates 1984

    I also forgot to note that the republican supreme court judge Clarence (the token black) Thomas upheld the ruling and back in the second vote ruled it unconstitutional. He was sued for talking about porn at the office years ago. He understands how we all need porn. Wrote an interesting book as well, but it wasn't about porn.

    Posted 7 years ago # Quote
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    This is the REAL Chris Hansen!

    Now go worship him like a golden cow!

    Posted 7 years ago # Quote
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    The following is the full text of the opening argument made by ACLU attorney Chris Hansen in the COPA trial.

    This, your honor, is about free speech. It is about the First Amendment, and the First Amendment has always been controversial throughout the nation's history. More particularly, every time a new technology comes into existence, people become concerned that the speech that will take place over that new technology will somehow be abusive or frightening or scary. As a result, every time there is a new technology there is a move, to censor that new technology. We are talking here about moves to censor speech on the internet.

    It began with the Communication Decency Act in the mid-'90s. Congress passed COPA in the late '90s. COPA, of course, is a criminal statute. It provides criminal punishment, both imprisonments and fines. It is a content-based restriction of speech that is, by definition, valuable, at least for adults, speech that is, by definition, constitutionally protected, at least for adults, given the legal standard that the court is to apply in this case is whether the government has compelling interest in the purposes of the law, and whether the law is narrowly tailored to achieve those purposes.

    The case will not primarily be about the compelling-interests part of that test. The plaintiffs recognize that the Supreme Court has said on a number of occasions that there is a compelling interest in protecting minors from certain kinds of speech about sex. It is worth saying a couple of things about the compelling issue before we turn to narrowly tailored material, which is where the heart of this case is.

    There is no other medium of communication that has a federal criminal harmful-to-minors law. It is not a crime to engage in harmful-to-minors speech in books, magazines or leaflets. It is not a crime to engage in harmful-to-minors speech on radio, on records, on movies, on videos or even, indeed, on broadcasts or cable TV. In all of those instances, there is either no federal law at all or the federal approach to regulating harmful-to-minors speech or similar speech has been regulatory, not criminal. Approximately half of the states have no harmful-to-minors law at all.

    There are obscenity laws, and much of the discussion in this case will turn on the nature of obscenity laws and whether or not harmful-to-minors is necessary in light of obscenity laws. But it is worth noting that the federal government does not vigorously enforce the obscenity law, casting doubt on the sincerity of its claim that it needs to protect minors about speech about sex.

    Fewer than one-tenth of one percent of all federal prosecutions are for obscenity. Indeed, government opposed the passage of COPA to Congress on the grounds that it already had the tools to use to protect children from speech about sex. And yet they are not using those tools.

    But, as I say, the primary issue here is not compelling government interest. The primary issue is a less restrictive alternative and narrow tailoring. And in that connection, there are essentially three overarching factual issues that will be presented to the court.

    First, is there valuable speech at risk under the statute that is either criminalized or chilled as a result of that statute?

    Second, are there less restrictive, more narrowly tailored alternatives to COPA that can be used to protect children, for those parents who believe their children need not be protected from this kind of speech?

    And finally, the third overarching factual dispute between the parties is, do the defenses contained in COPA resolve the otherwise existing problems with the statute?

    So I'll talk first about the valuable speech that is at risk under COPA. As I said, all of the speech that is criminalized under COPA is constitutionally protected speech for adults, as a matter of definition. The speech that is affected is speech on the internet. The vast majority of the speech on the internet is provided for free and without any restriction.

    Internet speakers do that for two reasons. First, it is a business decision. The primary method of business on the internet these days is advertising, and they want people to come to their websites without restrictions so that they will see the ads that they are running.

    But second, and equally important, it is a matter of principle. Most speakers on the internet, including all of the plaintiffs and all of the speaker witnesses that you will hear from, do not restrict access to their speech because they believe their speech is important. As a matter of principle, they want their speech to be as widely read as can possibly be.

    The speech that you will hear about covers a wide variety of topic areas. Say, for sex information, gay and lesbian speech, online magazines and other things, all of which are of unquestioned value. Now because the speech is, in our view, of unquestioned value, the defendants have covered that it is not covered by COPA and plaintiffs need not worry about COPA. Let's look at that a little more closely.

    All of our clients engage in speech that easily meets the prurient prong of 231(e)(6)(a). All of it is sexually explicit. Indeed, much of it is designed for erotic purposes. All of it depicts, describes or represents actual or simulated sexual actors or sexual contact, actual or simulated normal or perverted sexual actors or a lewd exhibition of the genitals or post-pubescent breast as provided in 231(e)(6)(b). All of the plaintiffs' speech and all of the chilled witnesses' speech fit those two categories without any real serious question. The only thing that is left in terms of plaintiffs, in terms of the definition, is whether it has value or not.

    231(e)(6)(c) says, in order for the speech to be harmful to minors, it must be found to lack value for minors. It is more than a little difficult to know what it is that lacks value for minors. It's largely an untested concept, brand new to the federal criminal statute and frankly determining what has value for adults but does not have value for minors is more than a challenging task.

    The question then is whether it is reasonable for the plaintiffs to feel chilled. The answer: the evidence will show that it is reasonable.

    First, your honor will hear from Professor Reichman, who will talk about the innumerable instances all over the country in which people try to suppress speech about sex, speech significantly more harmless than that provided by the plaintiffs in the name of protecting children. There are very significant and large segments of our country that believe that most speech about sex needs to be protected from children.

    Posted 7 years ago # Quote
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    Second, all of the plaintiffs are blocked by at least one of the major internet content filters, in whole or in part. That is a sign that the business entities that create internet content filters believe that the plaintiffs are in the kind of speech that parents want to keep from their children.

    Third, we have asked the government repeatedly, and your honor is well aware of this discussion, to more carefully define what it is that is covered by COPA. And the whole issue of defining what is harmful to a 16-year-old but not harmful to a 17-year-old and the issue of trying to distinguish between the Playboy picture, which the government says is not harmful to minors, and the Penthouse picture that the government says is harmful to minors, in all of the answers to the contention interrogatories, it is literally impossible for the plaintiffs to know, based on those descriptions, what is harmful to minors and what is not harmful to minors.

    It is worth noting that many of the plaintiffs have participated in state cases challenging harmful to minors laws, and a number of other entities participated in state cases challenging harmful-to-minors laws. Somewhere between half a dozen and a dozen of those have been declared unconstitutional. But in no instance has there been serious doubt about the standing of the plaintiffs in those cases and the risks that they face under harmful-to-minors laws.

    And finally, there is United States vs. Eckert, 11th Circuit decision from October 4, 2006. Eckert is an obscenity case. The department of justice prosecuted Mr. Eckert on the grounds of obscenity, and the evidence will show, and we will bring this to your honor, that the speech engaged in by Mr. Eckert was much more mild than any of the speech that the plaintiffs engage in. If the speech in Eckert is obscene, then surely it is reasonable for the plaintiffs to believe that their speech might be prosecuted by the Department of Justice as harmful to minors.

    The second overarching factual issue is the less restrictive alternative narrow tailoring. There is no question that COPA is overinclusive, that it does precisely what it does by Butler vs. Michigan: bars adults from having access to speech that they are constitutionally protected to have in the name of protecting children. As long ago as Butler, the Supreme Court said that is impermissible.

    It is also grossly underinclusive, as I noted. There is no harmful-to-minors law in any other media of communication. COPA does not reach overseas sites.

    Your honor will hear from Professor Zook, who will tell you that over half of all of sexually explicit material sites these days are overseas, based overseas, and that number is increasing rapidly. So as the plaintiffs are aware, the United States government has never sought to either extradite or prosecute a foreign national for engaging in speech about sex that is illegal in the United States.

    They will make an argument about overseas prosecutions, but in light of the fact that they have never done it, that argument is going to be weak at best.

    Not only does COPA not reach the 50 percent of all speech that is overseas, it does not reach non-commercial speech on the internet. It does not reach many of the forms of communications on the internet, including some that are becoming the most popular. It does not reach email, which is, of course, the most popular of all possible internet communications. It does not reach instant messaging, which is an extremely popular form of communication for young people. It does not reach peer-to-peer communications. Your honor will hear from Professor Felten, who will explain the nature of these forms of communication and why they were not covered by COPA.

    There are alternatives to the COPA effort to protect children, and those alternatives will not only be less restrictive and not only equally effective, they will be more effective. And the evidence from witnesses from both parties will show that.

    No party is going to claim that internet-content filtering is perfect. It isn't. No party, I think, is going to claim that COPA is perfect. It isn't. The question really is the relative comparison here.

    Filtering solves the underinclusiveness problem. It reaches overseas sites. It reaches noncommercial sites. It can be used to block access to email and IM and peer-to-peer and other forms of internet communications. In other words, most of the underinclusiveness as represented by COPA is solved through filters. It solves the overinclusiveness problem. Adults don't have to use filters. They can set up their computer so that only their children are covered by filters and they are not. It also adds additional levels of protection for children, including monitoring the sites that the children go to and tailoring the degree of filtering to the age and maturity of the child and to the values of the family.

    The evidence will show that filters are largely successful. The Department of Justice has stipulated that it uses internet content filters on the Department of Justice's websites, on the FBI's websites, on the Bureau of Prison websites and so on. They have stipulated those filters are effective in blocking access to sexually explicit material for the employees of the Department of Justice.

    Your honor will hear from three school librarians. The three school librarians have internet content filtering on their computers. They are an effective means of preventing children from having access to sexually explicit material.

    Your honor will hear from Professor Cranor, plaintiffs' principal expert on filtering, who will testify that there are a number of studies that have been done on the effectiveness of filters. They are generally effective, not perfect, but generally effective in protecting the children from having access to images that the parents don't want them to have access to.

    Finally, your honor, you will hear from Mr. Mewett, the defendants' witness. Plaintiffs do not concede Mr. Mewett's expertise, or even the quality of the work he has done, but it is worth noting that his evidence is, in fact, more supportive of plaintiffs' position than it is of defendant's position.

    Mr. Mewett testified in his deposition in this connection, I think I need to back up half a step. It's useful to distinguish between the problem of children coming across sexually explicit material sites accidentally and the problem of children who are setting out deliberately to look for sexually explicit material sites, because they present slightly different problems.

    Posted 7 years ago # Quote
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    Mr. Mewett says that internet content filters are adequate to deal with the inadvertence problem. What is the danger that a child will accidentally come across a sexually site? It works fine for that purpose. The evidence from his own studies show that.

    It is very, very unlikely a child will come across a sexually explicit site inadvertently. He did one study on a filter by AOL. He tested it against a random of URLs, websites, web pages drawn from the Google directory, and the incidence of domestic, unblocked websites was .04 percent, four out of 10,000. In the designs of domestic unblock sites, if a child went to a single website each day for years, and randomly chose that website, it would be 6.8 years before the child would come across that domestic unblocked website using the AOL filter.

    Other tests of the danger of children coming across a random website show not that good — not quite as good a success as that, but show significant success in showing the danger of inadvertence.

    Now, the second issue then is the deliberate child who sets out to try and find sexually explicit material websites. COPA goes into effect, that child will be able to find that overseas if no other place.

    If filters are in effect, that child may be able to find sexually explicit websites. But the odds are less. Mewett did a study of the most common search terms. And when you think about the most common search terms, that is what kids are going to use when they are trying to find sexually explicit sites. Filters are the most effective. Almost all of the filters that Mr. Mewett tested were at least 35 percent effective. Think about the five percent effectiveness compared to where we start with COPA being 50 percent ineffective, because of the overseas sites. Almost by a startling percentage, filters are significantly more effective than COPA would be.

    Now, Mr. Gomez has presented the images to your honor that your honor referred to before, before we began, and is going to discuss them in his opening statement. I would like to make a couple of points about those images.

    First, he used some images derived from Mr. Mewett's study. Four of the six images that he will use from Mr. Mewett's study are overseas sites. They are scary images, unpleasant images, but they won't be affected by COPA at all. For him to get up in a sensationalist way and say, this is what will happen if COPA is not in effect is simply wrong. Those images will still be available to every U.S. child, even if COPA goes fully into effect.

    All of the images from Mr. Mewett that Mr. Gomez is going to present were blocked by at least one of the filters. Indeed, all were blocked by at least six of the filters in that Mr. Mewett test. Some were not blocked by some of the filters that Mr. Mewett tested but there are filters out there that blocked very single one of the images that he is going to show you that come from Mr. Mewett. His sensationalist effort to scare the court by believing these pictures will be protected if COPA goes into effect and unprotected under filters should simply be rejected.

    Now, the defendant, as your honor knows, has made a point of making a distinction between so-called enterprise filters and so-called home-use filters. That is a distinction that is largely illusory and largely made up by the defendants. The so-called enterprise filters and so-called home-use filters Dr. Cranor will testify and your honor will hear use the same technology. They use the same black list technology, and that will be explained to your honor, the same white list technology and same dynamic filtering technology. Technology is the same. Moreover, more and more filtering technology is moving to a network level. You used the AOL filter, for example, through the AOL network. In that respect, the enterprise filter and home use filter become absolutely identical.

    And finally, Vista. Microsoft is coming out with a new operating system that will replace Windows. The Microsoft Vista product has in it, as Dr. Cranor will testify, parental control filters, so there will no longer be any distinction between the so-called enterprise filters and so-called home use filters. They will work the same way and they will work with products.

    Although they won't quite put it this crudely, the defendants argue that parents are too stupid to be able t use these filters. Insulting argument. And it is wrong. Use of filters is quite simple. It is just as simple as most other computer programs. It is probably more simple than Word, for example.

    Filters, however, are not the only alternative that parents can use if they are concerned about protecting their children. One very important alternative is educating your child as to the nature of the internet, how to engage in searches, what is inappropriate for them and what is appropriate for them.

    The school librarian witnesses that your honor will hear from will talk about the fact that schools don't rely solely on filters. In fact, they spend considerable time educating the students about the nature of the internet, about how to conduct searches and about how to find what it is that they want to find without finding things they don't want to find.

    Parental education, school education, librarian education all play a very significant role in protecting children.

    There are other techniques, and Dr. Cranor will testify to those other techniques, monitoring the way in which your child uses the internet, keeping the computer in the living room, so that the child knows there is always a danger that an adult will walk by and see what the child is doing and others that she will discuss.

    There are also, as I referred, other alternatives that the government could be using to protect children. The primary one of those, of course, is the obscenity laws. In defining what is obscene and what is not obscene, in response to the contention interrogatories, the defendant said violence against women is one of the categories that we think of as obscene. It is so much worse than — what is worse than harmful to minors. Violence to women counts as an obscenity.

    As your honor has seen, some of the images that Mr. Gomez is going to talk about this morning involves violence against women. It fits the precise definition they gave in the contention interrogatory as obscene. One would ask Mr. Gomez whether that was referred to the criminal division for prosecution and, if not, why not?

    Posted 7 years ago # Quote
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    Again, the government could also use other techniques . . . The government could fund filters if it thought parents were insufficiently adopting filters or . . . finances were preventing parents from adopting filters. The government could create their own list of sites, and make it available to parents.

    Most significantly, again, the government could create civil or regulatory devices for protecting children or, alternatively, only reach images rather than text as well as images. The government has chosen to do none of those. Instead, a device that will be ineffective, in part, because of overseas sites, and significantly less effective than filters and other techniques.

    Now, finally, in response to all of this, we get to the third big primary issue that is before the court, and that is the defenses. The government may well say that, even if I'm right about all of what I have just said, the defense solves the problem. They don't. The government has identified two techniques that web operators can use in order to protect themselves under COPA. First, they can use payment cards, such as credit cards or debit cards or prepaid cards. Second, they can use what we call DVS products, data-verification products. Neither of these is a satisfactory solution. Both will have a significant negative effect on the speech that is available to adults.

    With respect to payment cards, the notion that payment cards are a substitute for age is simply false. It is false. So false that at least one of the credit-card companies prohibits its merchants from saying that a credit card can be used as a surrogate for age.

    Minors have credit cards. Your honor will hear from Professor Mann about the number and ease with which minors get access to payment cards. There are adults that don't have payment cards. Your honor will hear from Mr. Mann about the number of adults that were not able to get access to payment cards.

    In addition, payment cards will still not do zero-dollar transactions. In other words, if I'm a website operator, I'm putting up a credit card screen or a payment-card screen at the front of my website, somebody is going to have to pay for it. A public card service is [not] going to validate a credit card number unless there is a sale that takes place. And the plaintiffs don't want to sell their speech, but make it as a matter of business and principle for free. The payment card solution does not work.

    Data-verification services are the second option the government offers. With a data-verification service, you give the websites a whole lot of information about yourself, your name, your address, your social security number. Then they send that off to a third party, the data-verification service, who then determines whether that information matches up with other databases that the services have collected. It is sort of like a credit check. The more information you give to the data-verification service, the more likely they will be able to find other records about you, which means that in order to get access to the speech, you are going to have to give up an awful lot of personal information about yourself. But even under those circumstances, it is not going to work. First of all, it does not work for a lot of adults, because there are no records for a lot of adults that the data-verification service can check.

    Second, particularly, it does not work for young adults because young adults have had less of an opportunity to create a record about themselves.

    Third, it does not work for anybody not in the United States. Large parts of the audience for the plaintiffs are people overseas. They would have to be all barred, because we could not verify through the data-verification services.

    Finally, very significantly, costs are attached for each person that must be verified. Neither data-verification services will provide an effective defense for those people who want to make their speech for free.

    Finally, both payment cards and DVS options will deter people from going to websites. Your honor will hear from all of the plaintiffs, and many of the other website witnesses, that they have specific and concrete experience with putting up barriers. It is their experience that the more barriers you put up, the more people go away, the less successful you can be, both as a business and a speaker, because people simply don't want to have to get speech on the internet only after they have gone through some sort of screen.

    Those are the principal factual issues that your honor is going to hear about. That there is value speech that is chilled. There are less restrictive and more effective alternatives, and defenses under COPA don't work. The effect of COPA will be to deprive adults of speech to which they are entitled. The effect of COPA is to violate the First Amendment.

    Thank you, your honor.

    Posted 7 years ago # Quote
  13. @ Anonymous - That is too long = ="... not going to read it.

    LOL @ OP's picture though.

    "****IF YOU ARE TRULY SUFFERING, REALLY TRY TO STOP BEING A LOLICON. LIFE IS BITTER, BUT IT ALSO HAS IT'S SWEET PARTS."

    When you can't cure them, just beg them. Hahahaha.

    Posted 7 years ago # Quote
  14. basilio said:

    "****IF YOU ARE TRULY SUFFERING, REALLY TRY TO STOP BEING A LOLICON. LIFE IS BITTER, BUT IT ALSO HAS IT'S SWEET PARTS."

    When you can't cure them, just beg them. Hahahaha.

    oh lawl isnt the sweet parts what got the lolicon in trouble?

    Posted 7 years ago # Quote
  15. worst part? that ad was in Comic Lo the worst serialized loli there is.

    Posted 7 years ago # Quote
  16. Interesting stuff... I don't think this quite gives me hope for loli though. The COPA was outdated to the point of being useless anyway. It only covered pictures directly hosted on websites - P2P, videos retrieved by applications, and a whole slew of other shit wasn't even covered. Plus there was the whole "make the parents do their job" part of the argument, as well as the filter alternative. The problem with loli is that the aim isn't to make it unavailable to children, it's to make it unavailable to anyone on the grounds that it is inherently obscene material, which I think is going to be harder to disprove to the current supreme court.

    Posted 7 years ago # Quote
  17. Too long ><... must take break...

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
  18. theres no point in reading the details, unless you're prepping for a debate.

    summary at the end says it all, why read something that can be nullified at anytime.

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
  19. Because then you'll miss all the good stuff~

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
  20. Avatar Image

    GTR

    tingle said:
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10147171-38.html

    The US supreme court has ruled the Child Online protection act unconstitutional because honestly there is no 100% way to prevent kids from looking at websites that have porn (accept for good parenting) So the website owner is not responsible if the kid lies about his age and faps to some oppai idols. ACLU lawyer Chris Hansen in a statement said the responsibility to raise a kid lies on the family and not the government.

    needless to say one of the dissenting votes came from a woman, Sandra Day O'conner. Chick's just don't understand porn.

    This makes me hopeful in case a loli case comes before this supreme court.

    pic unrelated I just love to post lolicon humor from japan.

    old news is old

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote

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