palmtop-tiger said:
I get what you're saying, but the thing that irks me is us law abiding citizens shouldn't be encumbered by these checkpoints.
What is asking "are you a US citizen" going to do? Is an illegal or criminal going to admit so?
It's not like they can ask for proof of citizenship (which would be more effective). I can't see what's the point of this song and dance. Keep it at the actual border.
Law abiding citizens should not have to be subject to intimidation tactics.
palmtop-tiger said:
It's not like they can ask for proof of citizenship (which would be more effective). I can't see what's the point of this song and dance. Keep it at the actual border.
I'm actually in agreement with you on that in principle. But the fact is, the southern border is a political issue in so many ways that we'll never have an effective border-security and immigration-control policy. At least I don't see one in the foreseeable future. So these checkpoints will continue.
palmtop-tiger said:
1. I get what you're saying, but the thing that irks me is us law abiding citizens shouldn't be encumbered by these checkpoints.
2. What is asking "are you a US citizen" going to do? Is an illegal or criminal going to admit so?
3. It's not like they can ask for proof of citizenship (which would be more effective). I can't see what's the point of this song and dance. Keep it at the actual border.
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Char said:
Law abiding citizens should not have to be subject to intimidation tactics.
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These checkpoints were - 'far and in-between' - in the early days... before many of you were even born and now the US citizen is more encumbered by the influx of illegals, that have en-massed over into the country.. by any and all means necessary and not all of them are nice gardeners or working the fields of California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas...
1. A simple question/query was asked and it was auto-answered in a negative tone, by someone (obviously) - 'hispanic' - who refused to answer, and who probably had personal familia who was transported/deported back to mexico. (again I am assuming).
2. and 3. If he (the agent) asked for proof of citizenship, he would have received the same answer by the individual, adding further that it was in violation of his rights as a US Citizen, who probably isn't one to begin with.
I agree with some aspects of your points, as it should - 'remain at the border' - but I also side with the officials, because I seen what actually occurs (aside) from the dramatic events that always - 'seems' - to be conveniently videotaped...
I have also seen what the illegals also do on a daily basis as well..
Many countries require their citizens to have identity papers. A slightly smaller group of these countries require their citizens to carry their papers at all times, and make them available at the request of authorities.
Visitors are required to carry their passport/visa at all times and make them available at the request of authorities. Failure to produce your papers means you will be taken in hand and, "Lucy, you got some 'splainin' to do!"
Though the mess in Mexico and the resulting flood of illegal immigrants is largely due to the incompetent leadership of the US.
IE the war on drugs and US companies shipping the manufacture of stuff to China.
If you think the US lost a lot of jobs to China it's nothing compared to Mexico.
Ironically even made in Mexico stuff generally is far higher quality then stuff made in China.
Deth said:
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1. A simple question/query was asked and it was auto-answered in a negative tone, by someone (obviously) - 'hispanic' - who refused to answer, and who probably had personal familia who was transported/deported back to mexico. (again I am assuming).
2. and 3. If he (the agent) asked for proof of citizenship, he would have received the same answer by the individual, adding further that it was in violation of his rights as a US Citizen, who probably isn't one to begin with.
1. Where he was coming from and where he is going is irrelevant to his citizenship status.
2. In the video he is asked for a passport and presents one. Still the officer resumes with his "fishing", asking if he is the registered owner of the vehicle. (Is driving a car not registered to you illegal now?)
And don't assume. You know what happens when you do.
Char said:
Though the mess in Mexico and the resulting flood of illegal immigrants is largely due to the incompetent leadership of the US.IE the war on drugs and US companies shipping the manufacture of stuff to China.
If you think the US lost a lot of jobs to China it's nothing compared to Mexico.
Ironically even made in Mexico stuff generally is far higher quality then stuff made in China.
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Firstly...
I respect your views, thoughts, opinion and also the fact that this topic is carrying on respectably (as it should)...
In all honesty... this issue (illegal immigrants) has been going on since the 1960's... and maybe before my time when I was born, which is in the late 1950's.
I should point out for clarification, that I am hispanic-mix, so I know the deal from this unique pov...
We can check resources, but those simple resources can also be manipulated, so word of mouth by those present at that time is more viable (granted not always) to be use as a experience.
The WoD has been an ongoing issue as well and is not a current issue.. none of the issues being played currently is anything new.
ALL parties involved take the blame equally...
Char said:
Though the mess in Mexico and the resulting flood of illegal immigrants is largely due to the incompetent leadership of the US.
IE the war on drugs and US companies shipping the manufacture of stuff to China.
If you think the US lost a lot of jobs to China it's nothing compared to Mexico.
Ironically even made in Mexico stuff generally is far higher quality then stuff made in China.
Losing jobs to Mexico and all this "outsourcing" fluff that politicians use to get votes in states like Michigan and Ohio (that were losing jobs back in the late 60's before all this even began) has nothing to do with the problem of illegal immigration northward, nor the mass legal immigration that has happened over the same border in the same direction over the past 40 years. Mexico is a middle-income country that simply cannot, or does not want to, control its political-economy, particularly in the northern states. There's nothing much the US can do about that short of ripping up the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo and annexing the whole country.
palmtop-tiger said:
1. Where he was coming from and where he is going is irrelevant to his citizenship status.
2. In the video he is asked for a passport and presents one. Still the officer resumes with his "fishing", asking if he is the registered owner of the vehicle. (Is driving a car not registered to you illegal now?)
And don't assume. You know what happens when you do.
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Until you have been trained, experienced, as well as approached/been approached in a similar situation (as the officer/agent) then its assumption (on anyone's part) that the questions being asked are unnecessary.
From (experienced) known and from actually knowing some officers, Federal/State/local, and I know quite a few, they have a system that needs to be initiated for they're own safety as well as the local populace.
We also don't know the local of the video - and in all fairness - I didn't see if the location is presented or mentioned.
Now I know I am in a minority concerning this topic/subject, again I am going by own experiences, seen what I have seen, and from my own AO which is just a mile from the border itself.
I am also not going to change your or anyone's mind over what they think is correct that's always a personal opinion.
palmtop-tiger said:
2. In the video he is asked for a passport and presents one. Still the officer resumes with his "fishing", asking if he is the registered owner of the vehicle. (Is driving a car not registered to you illegal now?)
And don't assume. You know what happens when you do.
And why would he have one unless he actually crossed the border? I know very few citizens who bother carrying a passport on a daily basis just for the purpose of having ID (not saying that you can't or shouldn't do that, but that it's unusual).
palmtop-tiger said:
1. Where he was coming from and where he is going is irrelevant to his citizenship status.
2. In the video he is asked for a passport and presents one. Still the officer resumes with his "fishing", asking if he is the registered owner of the vehicle. (Is driving a car not registered to you illegal now?)
And don't assume. You know what happens when you do.
I think a lot of that sort of trouble with the US border patrol can be ended by ending the war on pot which would bankrupt the Mexican drug cartels ending that threat.
Next fire all the hard ass/storm trooper types with that us vs them mentality as they should have never gotten pass physiological screening anyway.
A lot of people want to do this particular job so you can afford to be picky.
Maybe also have yearly to once every five year psychological examinations for all police.
kanika said:
And why would he have one unless he actually crossed the border?
I know very few citizens who bother carrying a passport on a daily basis just for the purpose of having ID (not saying that you can't or shouldn't do that, but that it's unusual).
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Exactly... and the Officer has the right to continue questioning (as he did) especially at at controlled checkpoint...
Deth said:
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Exactly... and the Officer has the right to continue questioning (as he did) especially at at controlled checkpoint...
I think he only had a right to do so if the vehicle matched the description of one that was reported stolen or one involved in suspicious activity such as a possible drug drop off.
Though in those cases you can't exactly say why you're looking for the information.
But checking it should never take more then a few minutes.
This here though is completely inexcusable and should result in the termination of the officers involved.
the-envoy said:
I got put in a holding cell for asking to use the toilet once after waiting 3 hours in immigration border control to process me.
kanika said:
And why would he have one unless he actually crossed the border? I know very few citizens who bother carrying a passport on a daily basis just for the purpose of having ID (not saying that you can't or shouldn't do that, but that it's unusual).
Deth said:
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Exactly... and the Officer has the right to continue questioning (as he did) especially at at controlled checkpoint...
Just some background info:
March 18 2012 sunday at aprox 8pm, internal border patrol checkpoint just south of Gila Bend Arizona. It is my second checkpoint encounter at the same road 85 going north bound to Phoenix. I was checked at the actual border on the same day at lukeville AZ port of entry.
palmtop-tiger said:
Just some background info:
March 18 2012 sunday at aprox 8pm, internal border patrol checkpoint just south of Gila Bend Arizona. It is my second checkpoint encounter at the same road 85 going north bound to Phoenix. I was checked at the actual border on the same day at lukeville AZ port of entry.
So he was in Mexico. Deth's point stands.
No need for a check point in Gila Bend it's 81 miles from the border they're just wasting money and man power.
Kinda like when they have a frigging Predator do border patrol when a Cessna 172 would be far cheaper.
Char said:
No need for a check point in Gila Bend it's 81 miles from the border they're just wasting money and man power.
^My point still stands.
palmtop-tiger said:
^My point still stands.
I just put the location in Google Maps when you see it on a map the truth becomes clear.
If I wanted to put in a second check point for some paranoid reason such as thinking someone is picking up illegals who crossed on foot I'd put it in Ajo.
TSA...
palmtop-tiger said:
Just some background info:
March 18 2012 sunday at aprox 8pm, internal border patrol checkpoint just south of Gila Bend Arizona.It is my second checkpoint encounter at the same road 85 going north bound to Phoenix.
I was checked at the actual border on the same day at lukeville AZ port of entry.
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Now this comes up?
Also.. his last statement of - 'viva mexico!' - was also uncalled for (imo) that's just instigation, like those who use - 'ok thanks bye!' - like a little bitchfuck!
Also, doesn't this - "wet" - (yes, I said it) - also know (since he checks apparently) that there's also shift changes? - which vary in time and are not the same?
His excuse is flawed, his use of camera is flawed, he's flawed and probably NOT a Citizen!
This is what pisses me off, is that we have these fucktards that claim Citizenship and then complain about their rights being persecuted, when they (possibly) are not even citizens!
Char said:
I just put the location in Google Maps when you see it on a map the truth becomes clear.
If I wanted to put in a second check point for some paranoid reason such as thinking someone is picking up illegals who crossed on foot I'd put it in Ajo.
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Char said:
No need for a check point in Gila Bend it's 81 miles from the border they're just wasting money and man power.Kinda like when they have a frigging Predator do border patrol when a Cessna 172 would be far cheaper.
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In reality, you place - 'random checkpoints' - for that purpose, because - 'pick-up points' - for the coyotes to - 'drop-off cargo' - varies as well.
Those points can be many miles to a hundred miles inland.
also ~
If the US Army, Border Patrol are using drones, more than likely, they're (Mexico) are using them for a purpose as well (or didn't you know?)
Cause in a case - Mexico's own drone - crashed in El Paso.
If one thinks about it - (rationally) - if Mexico is (also) using drones, which is a state/country, which is primarily controlled by Drug Cartels, who have billions of cash on hand, to bribe police officials of small towns, pay off coyotes, and pay-off/bribe federal officials (including the army), then they can afford what else?
Oh that's right... a DRONE!
Which can be used for what?
Exploration of finding new drug routes to be used, find out where the USPB and LEO are, as well as (possible) use for secretive RECCE's of US soil, which the info can be used/sold to the HIGHEST BIDDER for several reasons (including terrorism) and people then wonder - 'why' - I am armed at my AO where I reside?
Truthfully..
I see shite that is unbelievable, yet is true and is a common occurrence each day and night.
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