Sankaku Complex Forums » Anime

21. 

    Huey
    

    CS said:

    This is an excellent contrast summary. Especially the sentence before last--the far-above assumption is so grounded in everything that mentioning the word 'loli' outside of places like SanCom--even places that are otherwise shockingly relaxed--is like walking into a castle's powder room with an armful of lit torches.

    Wasnt meaning going out and saying loli loli like a nut, more along the lines if you put 100 people in a room told them the definition of the two. you would prolly grab more responses along the lines of it being the same.

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
22. 

    Alessa
    

    Hitoshura said:
    I find funny the usage of lolicon (Lolita Complex) to pedophiles, since Lolita was actually a post-pubescent teenager, anyway.

    Also, whether or not lolicon = pedophile depends on what definition of lolicon we are using.

    The lolita in Lolita was 12 at the beginning of the book.

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
23. 

    Hitoshura
    

    It's still not pre-pubescent, so it is not a child.

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
24. 

     
    

    Hitoshura said:
    It's still not pre-pubescent, so it is not a child.

    I was prepubescent at 12.

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
25. 

    Hitoshura
    

    I'm assuming you're male.

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
26. 

    Alessa
    

    Puberty for a girl begins with her first period. In the first world the age of this first period is 12 or 13 on average though it doesn't mean all girls hit puberty at 12 or 13. Therefore she might still have been a child.

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
27. 

     
    

    I'm assuming your mum.

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
28. 

    CS
    

    Alessa said:
    Puberty for a girl begins with her first period. In the first world the age of this first period is 12 or 13 on average though it doesn't mean all girls hit puberty at 12 or 13. Therefore she might still have been a child.

    Don't some girls begin ovulating as far as late (17?) teens? Isolated circumstances, but still interesting to consider.

    M I N N said:

    Wasnt meaning going out and saying loli loli like a nut, more along the lines if you put 100 people in a room told them the definition of the two. you would prolly grab more responses along the lines of it being the same.

    Aha...sorry! My bad... x.x;; I mixed up what you were talking about--I was more thinking of how it only takes one person to post "lolicon: it has a nicer ring than pedophile" to incite a complete brushfire among people who had their 'initial suspicions' confirmed.

    Your ACTUAL topic was much more sensible. And, considering that example, I wonder how the results would change if you asked each one individually in a separate room. Would the... community-pressure-group-think-phenomon-that-I-forgot-the-name-of make a signifigant impact in its lack? I think it wouldn't make much of a difference, running it over in my head, but I could be proven wrong.

    Didn't actually mean to derail.

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
29. 

    Hitoshura
    

    Speculation is bad. Going by the probabilities, she would have already had her first period:

    Over the next few years, breast size will continue to increase and there will be a progressive increase in development of pubic hair and the external genitalia, leading to the first period or menarche (occurring at an average age of 12 1/2 to 13 years), which usually occurs about two years after puberty begins and coincides with their peak in height velocity.

    Source:
    http://pediatrics.about.com/cs/conditions/a/early_puberty.htm

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
30. 

    sycamore
    

    NeonShadows said:
    I'm assuming your mum.

    You should leave.

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
31. 

    GANTZ Playboy!
    

    M I N N said:
    we would have to actually survey pedos and ask them why they are interested in kids. cross reference with a responds from lolicons asking why are they interested in 2d lolis.

    it may match up it may not. 4chan would seem like a good place for this survey.

    I smell a Dateline exclusive starring MINN! ...You should interview people with a hood and glowing red eyes- lol.

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
32. 

    sycamore
    

    Gantz_Playboy said:

    I smell a Dateline exclusive starring MINN! ...You should interview people with a hood and glowing red eyes- lol.

    The question is, what would be the control?

    -edit-

    Also this wouldn't give conclusive proof, flawed experiment is flawed. I remember looking at the cooked turkey on Tom and Jerry and thinking how nice that looked. But irl it looked disgusting to me. Does this mean I secretly desire turkey? I think not.

    I play unreal tournament alot. Yet the idea of blowing someone apart with a pressure hammer irl also disgusts me. You are saying I in actual fact want to re enact this? No thank you.

    Anime and Cartoons are not exact simulations they aren't even close. They vary too much from the real thing. The eyes, the hair, the personality of the character, all completly different from real life.

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
33. 

    Huey
    

    sycamore said:

    The question is, what would be the control?

    -edit-

    Also this wouldn't give conclusive proof, flawed experiment is flawed. I remember looking at the cooked turkey on Tom and Jerry and thinking how nice that looked. But irl it looked disgusting to me. Does this mean I secretly desire turkey? I think not.

    I play unreal tournament alot. Yet the idea of blowing someone apart with a pressure hammer irl also disgusts me. You are saying I in actual fact want to re enact this? No thank you.

    Anime and Cartoons are not exact simulations they aren't even close. They vary too much from the real thing. The eyes, the hair, the personality of the character, all completly different from real life.

    Argh. think I had a argument to that but I cant find the article.
    it was about how some pedos switched from real kids to lolies as a substitute.

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
34. 

    Ukonkivi
    

    To me, the Japanese term shota is just the same as the Western term Twink.
    And shota is just a male version of a loli.

    I would think the result for lolicons be the same as the results for twink lovers. And that the majority of them would not be pedophiles.

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
35. 

    Hitoshura
    

    I don't think the majority of lolicons are pedophiles, mind you, Ukonvivi. Specially Western lolicons.

    It's just that, to my knowledge, loli in mainly used in Japan to refer to underage characters, and lolicon to "pedophiles" (by the media and the people).

    Also, not referring to Ukonvivi anymore, but to Alessa:

    If Nabokov had made Lolita a 16 year old, sexually active high school student, he wouldn’t have had much of a premise. So I wasn't really trying to prove that lolicon cannot mean attraction to pre-pubescent children (even if only 2D) because of the original Lolita, but rather pointing out that Lolita wasn't exactly the typical child normally associated with "pedosexuals" (5 to 10 years old).

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
36. 

    Ukonkivi
    

    In Japan, the term is has surprisingly moved from that definition and onto an aesthetic as well. In the show To Aru Majutsu no Index, Index Prohibitum is referred to as a "loli".

    Lolita has meant a lot of things for a while now in Japan. And while "lolicon" often also implies the people who ARE pedophiles and buy photobooks of junior idols, it also has meant lots of things for a while now, and is continuing to expand in meaning. Right now I think of one of those meanings as one who likes a certain subgenre of the moe aesthetic.

    Since in Japan one of the first usages to mean "girl" or even "little girl", already deviated from the original meaning within the book, I don't see Nabokov's book as a particularly still relevant definition. It is but one of many, and especially diluted within Japan.

    (Yes, I know you were responding to Alessa there. I was responding to the origins of the term "Lolita" and it's current usage in general)

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
37. 

    sycamore
    

    M I N N said:

    Argh. think I had a argument to that but I cant find the article.
    it was about how some pedos switched from real kids to lolies as a substitute.

    Paedophiles who are interested in 3D could use 2D to circumvent the need for a real life child, this doesn't mean that the media is anymore representative of a real child, it means the paedophile is using his imagination more to fit the situation into real life. This could be seen(but don't quote me on this) as 2D lolicon leaving reality to go to a fictional realm (two very distinct realms), where as 3D paedophiles are trying to bring fiction into reality. Where one sates his want for real life children, the other has little or no simularity to the world society or even children of today.

    Either way that argument simply proves that lolicon deters 3D paedophiles from real child pornography.

    Also there still isn't a control for the suggested survey.

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
38. 

    Fonzer
    

    What children,people?
    There are no people in any type of drawn,written media(unless it's a book that says true story).Those are just fictional characters nothing more nothing less.

    People should just stop comparing these things as humans becouse they are not humans.They are a drawing connected with lines and collors.

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
39. 

    Palmtop Dragon
    

    Fonzer said:
    What children,people?
    There are no people in any type of drawn,written media(unless it's a book that says true story).Those are just fictional characters nothing more nothing less.

    People should just stop comparing these things as humans becouse they are not humans.They are a drawing connected with lines and collors.

    But where's the fun in that?

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote
40. 

    solace
    

    Hitoshura said:
    I find funny the usage of lolicon (Lolita Complex) to pedophiles, since Lolita was actually a post-pubescent teenager, anyway.

    I don't think "post" pubescent would be the proper term, since that presumes that puberty has finished. Simply "pubescent" would probably be most accurate, as the original Lolita was indeed older than a "child" but not yet an adult.

    Vladimir Nabokov said:
    Now I wish to introduce the following idea. Between the age limits of nine and fourteen there occur maidens who, to certain bewitched travelers, twice or many times older than they, reveal their true nature which is not human, but nymphic (that is, demoniac); and these chosen creatures I propose to designate as "nymphets."

    Let me remind my reader that in England, with the passage of the Children and Young Person Act in 1933, the term "girl-child" is defined as "a girl who is over eight but under fourteen years".

    Also, I would like to propose the suggestion that not all lolicons are in it for the sexual satisfaction. Is it not possible that some people could just enjoy the cuteness of the loli, just like there are non-pedophiles who like children (non-sexually)?

    Posted 6 years ago # Quote

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