Sorrior said:
And things like that are why i hate the modern world and why most americans are like little kids from cradle to grave. They hardly ever have to grow a pair. They got no moxy anymore.
But anyways yes that is my point "our rights are going away faster than an unwanted pregnancy down the drain on prom night" To paraphrase the great Dr. Venture.
But that is also why we should defend what rights we have left to the death.
Absolutely we should :)
Eleriel said:
There are books out there that claim the holocaust never happened...I find that to be an offense worse than whatever might be in that book.
not judging you, but what is your cultural background? Are you black/jewish/european/german?
Oh I read about this on the Newspaper long ago... Interesting. Personally I wouldn't allow them to sell it, tho. For the same reasons I don't think it's OK to sell a game about raping girls. Just..Doesn't feel right.
antika said:
Oh I read about this on the Newspaper long ago... Interesting. Personally I wouldn't allow them to sell it, tho. For the same reasons I don't think it's OK to sell a game about raping girls. Just..Doesn't feel right.
Am yeah,fantasy and reality are not the same thing,(how many times do I have to say this >.>), so selling a rape game is ok.
As for this book, my stands on freedom to expression one self is open, I wouldn't like this book but would be alright on it being sold, seriously censorship just because a group of people are butthurt is no excuse and it just takes one book being pulled to open up others, rapelay comes to mind =\
master-evil said:
Am yeah,fantasy and reality are not the same thing,(how many times do I have to say this >.>), so selling a rape game is ok.
As for this book, my stands on freedom to expression one self is open, I wouldn't like this book but would be alright on it being sold, seriously censorship just because a group of people are butthurt is no excuse and it just takes one book being pulled to open up others, rapelay comes to mind =\
I actually would have nothing against the book being sold if everyone was reliable. Too bad people ain't reliable at all. You may clearly see the difference in reality and fantasy, other people may see it in a whole other way. Why sell something that COULD inspire people to rape? Or in this case, to find something sexual about children? Believe me, I see your point of view, but I know people have so much different ways of analyzing stuff. I don't trust humanity~~
antika said:
I actually would have nothing against the book being sold if everyone was reliable. Too bad people ain't reliable at all. You may clearly see the difference in reality and fantasy, other people may see it in a whole other way. Why sell something that COULD inspire people to rape? Or in this case, to find something sexual about children? Believe me, I see your point of view, but I know people have so much different ways of analyzing stuff. I don't trust humanity~~
That type of thinking in my opinion is subjective. You are blaming content instead of the person, the content doesn't not make the monster, the monster was already there, stop blaming the material and look at the actual person, that the same kind of thinking that is trying to DESTROY other people's freedom, I do understand were your coming from but I do not agree with it, the whole "this media makes rapist, pedophiles and murders" are excuses and paranoia, people have to realize there monsters out there REGARDLESS of the media, they will come out sooner or later, blaming a group for the actions of one individual is wrong period.
Didn't you ever think that something like this may just trigger someone to actually act on their fantasies?
I don't mean there aren't already people that think that way, I just don't think it's necessary to encourage their way of thinking.
antika said:
Didn't you ever think that something like this may just trigger someone to actually act on their fantasies?I don't mean there aren't already people that think that way, I just don't think it's necessary to encourage their way of thinking.
AH! no this kind of thinking is the same thinking they TRY on violent video games and it is bullshit or are you trying to imply the thousands or millions of people who watch this media are violent,rapist and killers.
Out of 1000 people, surely there'll be someone who will be affected in a negative way. If that can be avoided, I'd rather the book is not going on sale. I don't want to encourage this kind of thinking.
//And I can prove that violent video games make people violent. 'Cuz my brother never ever raised his fist at me, after a year playing fucking CS and War Rock he actually dared to not only scream at me but he even tried to hit me. And do I blame the game? Damn yes I do.
Not because the content says he should shoot other people, but because he became so addicted to the games that he became violent to his surroundings. It does affect people but it all depends on the person of course.
That is another topic tho.//
antika said:
Out of 1000 people, surely there'll be someone who will be affected in a negative way. If that can be avoided, I'd rather the book is not going on sale. I don't want to encourage this kind of thinking.//And I can prove that violent video games make people violent. 'Cuz my brother never ever raised his fist at me, after a year playing fucking CS and War Rock he actually dared to not only scream at me but he even tried to hit me. And do I blame the game? Damn yes I do.
Not because the content says he should shoot other people, but because he became so addicted to the games that he became violent to his surroundings. It does affect people but it all depends on the person of course.That is another topic tho.//
You admitted yourself it depends on the person, stop blaming the media, blame the person and banning something for the actions of one idiot is wrong, this is coming from someone who has been playing violent video games, horror movies and watching porn since early teens, most of the times these things are outlets to some, what happens when you strip a outlet away ? doesn't it mean something else is needed ? then what happens when a outlet is gone and someone gets attacked ? sorry does not magically fixes everything and not to mention 1 out of that 1000 could have had something else besides the media affect them, society teaches(kind of) what's right and what's wrong, so the person who acts out what they see, already knows what's right and what's wrong is suppose to know if he acts out has fantasy, it is wrong, there is no gray area, everyone HAS control over there actions, you, your brother,me, any member on sancom has control and a mind, this is like the argument with all mentally ill individual when people were afraid of sociopaths because they believe they were ALL murderers, yet it was only a few who had jump off the bandwagon.
I just had a supersized McChicken meal, a hamburger and I tried out the New York Crispy. I'm absolutely stuffed. It was delicious.
I'm not talking about you. Sure, you could play a rape game without becoming a rapist yourself. I know I could too. But you know how many of those "idiots" there are out there? Some people are just plain stupid, and some people simply don't see the difference between a game and reality.
Different reactions are expected, of course. But if there is a possibility to avoid the negative reactions of some individuals in this mass of people, then I wouldn't think twice about banning the damn book.
We can't change the whole world but if there's a slight possibility of avoiding that someone realizes that it may be fun to actually rape someone IRL, then at least we avoided destroying some people's life.
I don't know if my point is clear but I can't explain any clearer than this.
Ninsheart said:
I just had a supersized McChicken meal, a hamburger and I tried out the New York Crispy. I'm absolutley stuffed. It was delicious.
lol Nin. +1 for atmosphere lightening :D
antika said:
I'm not talking about you. Sure, you could play a rape game without becoming a rapist yourself. I know I could too. But you know how many of those "idiots" there are out there? Some people are just plain stupid, and some people simply don't see the difference between a game and reality.Different reactions are expected, of course. But if there is a possibility to avoid the negative reactions of some individuals in this mass of people, then I wouldn't think twice about banning the damn book.
We can't change the whole world but if there's a slight possibility of avoiding that someone realizes that it may be fun to actually rape someone IRL, then at least we avoided destroying some people's life.
I don't know if my point is clear but I can't explain any clearer than this.
Again AM CALLING BULLSHIT!! paranoia and fear gives no right to ban something, "we should ban A because people are going to act them out", again you don't seem to understand me at all, you once more are blaming the media and robbing those who purely enjoy it,of their safe haven because the action of some "idiots" , at the end of the day, no matter what media you ban, someone is going to do a evil act with or without it, (I don't know, how many times I have to say this) Media does not create monsters, the monsters already existed. It doesn't take much for someone to lose it and go off to do something and taking away others freedom because of one manic is dumb, we have little freedom then we did in the past, people who enjoy these things don't harm a soul and have there little bit of pie yet, there people like you(no offense) that want to ban it because of paranoia and fear, sorry but thats plain wrong, not to mention, banning the media is not going to change anything as we speak some child is being violate, somebody is being raped, someone is being abused, someone is being killed,etc all right now, and 99% of the time the people who commit theses crimes, never even seen the material, so exactly what triggered their monster ?
Ninsheart said:
I just had a supersized McChicken meal, a hamburger and I tried out the New York Crispy. I'm absolutley stuffed. It was delicious.
Geez Nin, I was trying to give a serious impression here... ;__n____;
I'm being serious too.
master-evil said:
Again AM CALLING BULLSHIT!! paranoia and fear gives no right to ban something, "we should ban A because people are going to act them out", again you don't seem to understand me at all, you once more are blaming the media and robbing those who purely enjoy it,of their safe haven because the action of some "idiots" , at the end of the day, no matter what media you ban, someone is going to do a evil act with or without it, (I don't know, how many times I have to say this) Media does not create monsters, the monsters already existed. It doesn't take much for someone to lose it and go off to do something and taking away others freedom because of one manic is dumb, we have little freedom then we did in the past, people who enjoy these things don't harm a soul and have there little bit of pie yet, there people like you(no offense) that want to ban it because of paranoia and fear, sorry but thats plain wrong, not to mention, banning the media is not going to change anything as we speak some child is being violate, somebody is being raped, someone is being abused, someone is being killed,etc all right now, and 99% of the time the people who commit theses crimes, never even seen the material, so exactly what triggered there monster ?
I am not blaming the media, I am blaming the human race and our stupid human brains.
But you're right, media does have a lot to do with this. It gives people ideas, it motivates people for better or for worse.
Sure I don't mind that people start thinking that pedophilia is maybe more usual than we like to admit, but I do mind that maybe some pedophile thinks that "now that people seem to take this lightly it may be OK to actually act on what I'm thinking".
You say that media doesn't make the monsters, that they are already there. So why feed them? Why give make them bigger? If we can avoid that, then let's not give them any more encouragement.
antika said:
I am not blaming the media, I am blaming the human race and our stupid human brains.
But you're right, media does have a lot to do with this. It gives people ideas, it motivates people for better or for worse.
Sure I don't mind that people start thinking that pedophilia is maybe more usual than we like to admit, but I do mind that maybe some pedophile thinks that "now that people seem to take this lightly it may be OK to actually act on what I'm thinking".
You say that media doesn't make the monsters, that they are already there. So why feed them? Why give make them bigger? If we can avoid that, then let's not give them any more encouragement.
So why have others suffer for the action of one idiot ?
Now Antika, I understand you have logical in your argument and not one of the many idiots who believe reality=fantasy for that I'd have to say am impressed but like I said this is were we differ, yes there is going to be one idiot out there but banning something is not the answer, the monster was already there, it existed long before, we can argue back and front on how media plays a role but at the end of the day, the media did not put a gun to the monster's head and say "go do this and do that", the monster went out of its OWN FREE WILL, to attack another, people should stop trying to use the media as a reason for someone else evil acts, again (I can not make myself any clearer that this) what we do, we do it ourselves, not because of another force, we chose the way we do it, how we do it, we thought it out and used our own brains to do it, no one needed to put a gun to our head to do it, no one forced us too, someone who acts out there fantasy was sick enough to bring something to reality and that person knew exactly why he did it, we can not know the minds of the monster but there is one thing clear the monster was going to attack sooner or later, the same idea the monster could of gotten from a media, could of triggered from somewhere else, look at one or two religious nut jobs that killed in the name of god, are they going to blame the bible or the person ? they blame the person or they blame the entire group of religious goers, tell me, how many people were afraid of muslim after 9/11 ? paranoia bought out the discrimination, the hate crimes went up in that period, look at the building of the temple on ground zero, people went in arms and acted stupid, exactly what made them all fear and paranoid, the action of a few individuals, now are you going to tell me that should religious practices be banned because some nutjob acted out ? or is this a difference ?
master-evil said:
You say that media doesn't make the monsters, that they are already there. So why feed them? Why give make them bigger? If we can avoid that, then let's not give them any more encouragement.
antika said:
You say that media doesn't make the monsters, that they are already there. So why feed them? Why give make them bigger? If we can avoid that, then let's not give them any more encouragement.
I have found in my life that admitting the monsters are tere and inside us works better than denying them. Thus feeding them can be helpful but it also depends on the person.
EDIT fixed the quote problem.
@Sorrior:- shouldn't you quoto this Antika did say it, "You say that media doesn't make the monsters, that they are already there. So why feed them? Why give make them bigger? If we can avoid that, then let's not give them any more encouragement."
what we do, we do it ourselves, not because of another force, we chose the way we do it, how we do it, we thought it out and used our own brains to do it, no one needed to put a gun to our head to do it, no one forced us too
But thanks to the law, we avoid a lot of stuff that people could decide to do because they're angry or sad or whatever. The rules may be not the best ones, but it helps to keep a society under control. We do not live in the stone age anymore. Rules are needed.
And I am not being paranoid. If I was, I'd say "omg we should ban this book from all countries and send to jail everyone that dares to say that it's OK to think sexually about children". I think that I am very tolerant.
look at one or two religious nut jobs that killed in the name of god, are they going to blame the bible or the person ? they blame the person or they blame the entire group of religious goers, tell me, how many people were afraid of muslim after 9/11 ?
Actually, for all that, I blame religion. It's not my fault that humans are so damn mental fragile that they need something like an imaginary superman to make it through life.
I have found in my life that admitting the monsters are tere and inside us works better than denying them. Thus feeding them can be helpful but it also depends on the person.
So we go back to the conversation we had minutes ago. It depends on the person. Meaning not everyone may give a negative reaction. Yet someone WILL, and I am very sure of that. Why risk it?
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