It has emerged China’s newly expanded aerial kill zone was almost extended all the way up to the coast of the Japanese mainland – even as China announces successful tests of the world’s first “carrier killer” anti-ship ballistic missile.
According to Asahi, hard-line generals and military reseach institutes in China were pushing for an ADIZ extending out hundreds of kilometres from China’s EEZ, encompassing not only the Senkaku Islands but also extending up to the coast of Kyushu.
This represented a “political desire” on the part of some of China’s top leaders rather than any military necessity, it is said, but in the end the zone was extended from Chinese territorial waters instead, encompassing only parts of Okinawa, Taiwan and South Korea.
Even this generous compromise secured China massive international condemnation even from nations nowhere near its airspace, but the consequences of attempting to usurp control of the skies so close to Japan can only be guessed at.
In other – and perhaps far from unrelated – news, Japan’s air force is planning to increase its planned purchase of F-35s, whilst China has apparently just tested the world’s first ballistic anti-ship missile, the Dong Feng 21D, capable of eliminating aircraft carriers in one hit at a range of 3,000km.
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It's as if China is being run by Kim Jong Un.
Probably is, my friend. Probably is.
It's as if humans will never grow the fuck up.
You mean the guy educated in the finest European boarding schools available?
and the Almighty NATO nation isn't? Everyone here is a shit bag.
Humans are shit bags.
It's why I prefer 2D, myself.
Good for you and here a banana sticker.
Even you, my dear Anon, even you!
Funny thing is, I know who the leader of NK is, but not who the leader of China is.
Lol...
China: "We got anti-ship ballistic missiles!"
USA & UK: "We got Tridents and other nuclear sub-launched missiles bro."
@Tasche 06:34:
Pulling out the nukes is not the best first-option, but there are less-extreme-yet-still-effective options.
American President: "China has some new carrier-killer missiles, eh? Let's just sneak an 'upgrade' into their flight-control firmware, heh-heh-heh."
Option A (subtle): the missiles "just happen" to narrowly miss their targets (US carriers).
Option B: (less-subtle): the missiles detonate at launch time T minus 20.
Actually, these missiles are entirely domestically produced. Much of American military hardware, on the other hand, are made in China.
Oh the irony...
Hacking. America have used it before to attack possible threats you know?
Anon might want to check his facts before running his mouth. 100% of US military hardware is made domestically.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8876656/US-weapons-full-of-fake-Chinese-parts.html
Conduit:
Thats strange, since i know off many companies over here in Europe that have monopoly of delivering specific parts for the US military.
ex. 148 parts of the Apache including most of its GPS system is made by Kitron, not talking about all those weapons you buy from Kongsberg... damn, even your president is protected by Norwegian "penguins"
but you guys cant have an foreign missile in you fleets so you call it AGM-119 instead and if anyone asks is an domestic made missile even if its stands "made in Norway" on the side of it...
The chances of these missiles actually working are pretty damn slim. Hitting a stationary target a thousand miles away is incredibly difficult, hitting a moving target a thousand miles away is down right impossible without highly sophisticated hardware and software that quite frankly, the Chinese just don't have. The best China can do with their dongs is spray and pray.
You're wrong there actually. Just have 3+ satellites in the air that can guide the missile, have the ship focused on with the GPS-signal and there you go.
Any nation that can built satellites, launch and control them and which also can built and launch ballistic missiles, ought to be able to pull it off.
It's ballistic. Do you know what that means? It means it has no way to significantly correct it's course once launched. It's fuel is gone, and it's control surfaces are not large enough to do much more than keep it's warhead pointed at the ground. It MIGHT be able to make a correction of a dozen meters or so, but that's about it. Anything more extreme would probably send the warhead tumbling erratically.
Simply increasing the carrier's speed would be enough to avoid it, given the time a long-range ballistic weapon is in-route to the target. By the time the carrier has the least amount of time between launch and the missile getting to the target, the launch sites would be in range of fighter-bombers.
Saturate the target? Then you'd have most of them destroying themselves via fratricide. Carriers are big, but not so big that you'd be able to safely target one with more than two ballistic missiles.
This is a bluff, plain and simple. They might have a ballistic missile that hit a carrier. As long as that carrier just sits there and waits for it.
>22:01
That is not what ballistic means, lol. Well, it's what the word means literally, but ballistic missiles can correct course on reentry just fine. Stop embarrassing yourself.
@anon 21:01
China does not have a satellite based tracking and guidance system, they've barely managed to put two basic spy satellites into orbit.
@06:37
Would you stop pulling this stuff out of your ass? It's embarrassing.
China has its own satellite net for their version of the GPS system. So does Ruissa, actually, although it's much smaller than US and China's.
Aircraft Carriers have already been obsolete for several decades. Modern anti-shipping missiles already have the capacity to easily destroy CAGs despite escorts. Purpose manufacturing ballistic missiles is pure propaganda, and are far less efficient then cruise missiles and torpedoes.
Also satellites are useless locating moving oceanic vessels. Satellites as their name implies are constantly orbiting the earth, which means they spend only scant minutes overlooking parts of the ocean. Satellites are great for finding static emplacements, docked vessels, etc.
All in all, just China making a bunch a noise about something that is useless, against a problem that already has a solution. As usual.
>04:53
Where did you get this stuff from? Ever heard of geosynchronous orbit? It's so saturated with both military and civilian satellites that there's not enough antisatellite missiles in the world to take down 0.1% of them.
Satellites have zero trouble locating and tracking large objects like carriers. Even tracking fast moving jets via atmosphere distortion, had been considered old tech since 2 decades ago.
The last time any carrier battlegroup got "lost" was in WWII.
Nukes are out of the question... for the main reason that all the fallout and radiation (clouds) would end up landing right on japan.
china is pushing hard to find the breaking point...proverbial dont step over the line I drew in the sand...this is a powder keg with a long fuse but it will explode...
And not because they'll fire back? Oh right, I forgot 'Murica is immune to nukes...
The technology exists to shoot down nukes before they come anywhere close to the coast of any country. This is why Obama sent that defense system thing near Hawaii when Kim Jong Un was threatening to nuke. The fallout wouldn't be that bad if it was shot down in the sea.
Fallout would be nonexistent, you only get fallout from a full nuclear detonation, and shooting the missile down would not trigger a detonation.
You don't get a radioactive fallout cloud, but if you breach the plutonium containment, you have raw plutonium leaking into the environment. If you know a damn thing about just how incredibly destructive raw plutonium is, you know that's some serious shit; sea landing or not.
just saying; they have the arsenal to make any country think twice. Of course, nukes are out of the question. But any military action in that region probably be condemned to high heaven by the UN regardless of China's security council membership.
Personally, i think its a lose-lose situation for China in the region. They need to sit down and have a time-out in the corner.
There is absolutely NO point!
Japan is done for, total radioaction there. Soon they will be ALL dead, and few years after... us too.
I find irony in the fact that the only time we ever praise America in military investment is when China, Russia or any other non American friendly country invests in military too.
Like seriously? What is it with the 'murica boner whenever it comes to military and weapons, yet whenever Iran or such pop up with investing into the same we shout warmongers and nationalists?
China trolling hard
Aircraft carrier at 3000 km distance? Not that I like the US, far from it, but this seems like China presenting an middle finger to the US... The Russians have a few carriers, the French have, the British have... but not much others, and the Russian carriers are mostly stationed near the European part of Russia or at the Black Sea.
Only ones who could be a target for such a weapon in reality could be the US...
Got me thinking... is China preparing to take Taiwan and trying to stall any potential American support with that weapon?
Although we have yet to see if that weapon just doesn't fall apart when it reaches the top height of its ballistic curve....
"Is China preparing to take Taiwan"?
Yes.
But probably not by going up militarily against the U.S. China has to have sufficient military capabilities to make the U.S. think twice about a fight, but also to let a retreat be available to the U.S. in order to save face.
The more probable method is that at some point, China can say to the U.S. "Look, we have all these U.S. Treasury bills via which you owe us trillions. We'll give them all back to you, if you simply sail away from Taiwan and don't look back." And at some point, that is precisely what the U.S. will do, because when it comes right down to it, the U.S. doesn't give a damn about Taiwan anymore.
Very true.
Anyway, who cares about Taiwan anymore? I get most of my gadgets from Shenzen, as long as they don't touch that I'm fine.
You have to factor in distance. The military assets we can field off China's cost half way around the world is extremely limited, and will get wiped out by the 10s of thousands of land based missiles in the initial salvo.
Distance and supply issues are still relevant today as ever, we can't fight real wars with real nations at their doorsteps. And no, Afghan and Iraq are jokes, not real nations.
This is a little silly. Do you think US ships won't see 10s of thousands of land-based missiles launched? Or course they will, as that's a given. So then maybe you think they'll just sit there and take it like the stoic peace-mongers they are, content to die in testament to the horrors of war?
Many of those naval ships are equipped with extensive load-outs of cruise missiles for their aircraft, and there are even such things as Missile Carriers now, to say nothing of what submarines and missile cruisers are expected to be carrying. If China launched such a salvo, the US response would invariably be to launch a counter, decimating the Chinese coast at the very least. It would be so Pyrrhic I doubt history would ever be able to rationalize the action.
China isn't stupid. They are slowly siphoning concessions by pushing little by little, but they know better than to actually spark WWIII, especially on their own like this. There's just simply nothing to gain otherwise.
Wont the U.S just say: you touch Taiwan, we clean you up and you can forget about the bills since you will be paying us triple of that amount as war damages.
Your post reeks of raw ignorance.
That's not how modern credit works. Default on anyone, for any reason, and it's over. The US government this day and age needs to borrow every fiscal year to pay for current expenses. The borrowed amount for revenue turnover has long grown past any margin for idiocy. Even slight increase in borrowing costs will break its back.
No, 17:42, it's your post that disregards politics. If China simply conquered Taiwan by force and starts a war with the US over that, of course the US would at least freeze any kind of Chinese capital in the US. And so would ALL NATO members. That would include embargoes on all chinese products. Yes, that would hurt the West tremendously in raw materials, bulk products and all the investments in factories over there being practically void. But at the same time China would suffer mass unemployment with the loss of pretty much ALL their market power. Sure Iran, N. Korea, African nations, maybe India would still buy whatever comes out of China but that isn't nearly enough to compensate. The cut the long story short: If China goes to war with the west, it would lead to civil unrest in China itself. It would be the end of communism.
>20:50
China haven't been a "factory nation" for 2 decades. The bulk of its GDP nowadays in domestic consumption and construction. Export to western nations is a mere ~10% of GDP. It's huge, yes, but keep in mind that not all western nations will comply, and some of it will be absorbed by others taking advantage of the cheaper price.
China holds 90% of World's rare earth metals. Any nation cut off from it can expect complete collapse of all sectors from auto to telecommunication, and partial collapse of many others such as retail and medical care.
Embagoing China is economic suicide. You need them. But frankly, they don't need you.
Besides, 17.42, borrowing to pay debts does not mean you don't have $ at all. It's the same thing with multimillion corporates still taking loans on buying assets. Its is not like they don't have the $ to buy them but they don't want to spend their own $ by using other people's $. That's cash flow management. Other than that, if you borrow $ from a person and that person is being arrested involving with criminal acts, will you still even return his $ to him?
They would need a lot more than that as leverage. 6% of the national debt really isn't that much when you consider the whole.
Why you no like U.S.? and on a similar note tell me what country you're from so I can give you the full list of skeletons they have in their closet that probably just as bad as the U.S., if not worse.
Comparing the dumbasses in the U.S. to the rest of the world would reveal that there are far worse countries to hate.
Definitely, no. The U.S. have the greatest dumbasses, and much more skeletons in the closet than all countries of the world together. Only Israel can reach this number...
Is China trying to show its Dong to people again?
frankly, if they can keep any war to 1:1 losses, they can beat anyone with their massive population
The thing is a war with the US would be 10 to one losses for them.
Being in the Chinese military would quickly become synonymous with being cannon fodder or walking hamburger.
"Operation Human Shield" - South Park. XD
if they start a war we'll all going to lose for sure.
anything in china will explode
The first part happened, the reverse of the 2nd part also happened.
It was called the Korean War. They fought us back then with WWI era rifles, no navy, no air force, just a whole lot of infantry causalities. Then the American population got sick of the much lower amount of causalities on our own side, and that was that.
In this day and age most wars are fought via air and sea, whoever has superiority of the skies and oceans will win any battle. It's not like the old days where you had to put troops down to destroy stuff. The American airforce could wipe out what planes China has without too many issues, yes it would loose a few planes but as soon as air superiority is established and anti air defences in China rendered moot the battle would be pretty much won.
You can't really compare. Technology has advanced so much since the Korean conflict.
The thing is, China has to be aware of their situation. They have to know that if they instigate war, or if they join in on a war instigated by another party, it won't end until they sign a treaty that gives majority control of their resources to someone else. They have 90% of rare earth metals sitting in their territory, and they've been ever keen to point it out, and every civilized, developed country wants those resources. If China doesn't know that, then they're in for a world of trouble. And the US is very good at treaties that neuter countries on its watch list, and the British have damn good practice at it too.
Technology may have advanced, but the ability to bomb the hell out of the enemy already existed then, and it didn't solve the problem...
Any sort of war against China would be lost by the US not on the front, but at home. Consumer product prices would skyrocket, especially gadgets and electronics. Let's see how long the US population supports a war that kills their iPad and iPhone supply.
But they can't. Any enemy can simply destroy the Three Gorges Dam, and let the resulting massive flood not only kill millions downstream all along the Yangtze River, but cut China in half.
They'll take what they can get from other countries via intimidation, but they know that in any major war, China will bleed.
Of course, that assumes they mind killing millions of their citizens. They might not. But functioning economies are much more enjoyable to rule over, than shattered rubble.
Nukes will fly? The age of total war/genocides have came and gone. Any war between major nations in the modern era, if they occur at all, will be diplomatic wars.
Hello, my name is Iraq. I would like to introduce you to my friend Afghanistan. We would like to disagree with your comment and question where you came up with such a boldly idiotic theory?
Japan will have the Strike Freedom on standby for any nukes near its shores ;)
Iraq and Afghanistan are not major nations, not even regional powers much less global powers like US, China, Russia, UK.
Hello, my name is a 1st world country that unlike you, i have weapons of mass destruction. if you try to attack i can guarantee you mutual assured destruction.
But if america losses its carrier in japan the most likely course of action would be the us nuking the Chinese coast
Don't be silly. America would only nuke another country in this day and age if the impossible happened and an enemy nuke hit the continent.
More like blockade Chinese goods and embargo any and all production. Yes, it would hurt the US economy undoubtedly, but it would DESTROY China's already unstable economy.
well if war did break out and we blockade chinese goods from the US, think of how many new factories we could open to replace those goods, we could actually increase the economic output by increasing jobs and lowing the unemployment rate... just saying..
Their massive population would be the good target for nuclear bomb.
Not sure about that...
What is it with all these kids talking about "Nuking" countries? That age is long gone, the only countries reckless enough to launch are potentially Pakistan and India against each other. Most other countries either lack the technological sophistication or just have better sense.
More damage can be done by far by the economy than any bomb.
1:1? China always used cheap and abundant human lives to defeat better armed enemies.
Ten thousand of losses would cause an outrage in other countries but it is nothing to China.
maybe 10:1 is possible but 1:1? hell no
many part of China is still a 3rd wold
If war with China did break out the Chinese population would probably use it to try and usurp the communist government in a MASSIVE revolt. Sure their massive population can be used against armies to overwhelm, but if ti turns on them it can be used against them.
"The thing is a war with the US would be 10 to one losses for them."
"Being in the Chinese military would quickly become synonymous with being cannon fodder or walking hamburger."
"many part of China is still a 3rd wold"
Wow. You lot really have no clue about their military forces, do you? If they would start a war, even the US will be really fucked hard.
You need to read Tom Clancy's Bear and the Dragon. Still very relevant today to this whole situation.
US could wipe out half of china ships and artillery (not counting prime militar targets such as ammo factories, electric plants, and such) with drones alone, witout loosing ONE soldier
More like they don't want our dong sticking half way around the world into their neighborhood. So here's something to chop it off...
China: Hey guys, look at my Dong.
Ho yeah is pretty cool-- Oooh -_- there is no dong there...
I think we all know japanese have the smallest. lol.
Nope, it's the Koreans.
http://www.11points.com/Dating-Sex/11_Random_Findings_In_a_Study_of_Penis_Sizes_Around_the_World
At least it's not the Wong Wei incident again.