Senkaku fans have been marvelling at the latest naval theatrics to play out in the seas around the isles – this time coast guard vessels from Japan and Taiwan clashed, though with water cannon rather than the regular kind.
The scene showed chaos as Japanese coast vessels intercepted a flotilla of Taiwanese fishing boats intent on trespassing in the waters around the island, which Taiwan still claims as part of its fantasy “Republic of China” government, and were in turn intercepted by Taiwan coast guard vessels accompanying the ships, with all parties enjoying a jolly sprayfest at taxpayer expense.
The Taiwanese ships did not however press their luck, and soon withdrew after making their point, without having got too close to the islands in question.
Meanwhile, in China proper the formal transfer of the nation’s first aircraft carrier to the navy has just been announced, with timing unlikely to do much to relax tensions in the region.
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How many years do you think it will take for us to stick our noses into this?
2-5 years...Give or take the next tsunami!
The moment the first death happens it will become a military fight. At that point the only ships allowed in the area will be American and all others will be sunk after a warning to leave the area immediately.
that is if the american ships can even get into the area. I doubt NK will sit there and watch americans push their ships that close to their domain.
Yeah, but that's North Korea even gonna do to stop us? The moment they open fire on one of our ships we'll just carpet bomb every one of their military bases into dust.
What's NK going to do? Lob inaccurate ballistic missiles at moving ships?
The only danger NK possesses in the Pacific are the possibility of Soviet aquired Subs. Of which I strongly doubt will be used to any effect against the only Navy in the world with teeth after the Labour Party went to work on the Royal Navy.
I'm sorry but what? The US has parked subs so close to NK that even China got nervous. North Korea doesn't have the ability to go to war, despite what they want the World to think. They are having serious problems. The US practically feeds them.
As to whether the US will become involved in this Senkaku bullshit? I doubt it will become an issue until death occurs and even then we'll probably do nothing more than send some troops to occupy the island or a couple of ships to make sure neither side screws around. And we won't fire water cannons. We'll put holes the size of large children in their ship.
The United States Navy will probably not get involved. US interest is in preventing the situation from escalating. We have no good way to stop two allies from fighting if there is no other way to resolve a territorial dispute.
We could stop them both by having both sides sit the fuck down with the owners and come to an arrangement but fat fucking chance of that. Eat-shit-hara would just poke and prod the Chinese and then blame America for not giving them the islands or man power to take them from the Chinese.
US navel subs are so quiet one can be just off the coast and no one would know it's there.
Heh, as if the Norks can even get their ships out into their littoral areas.
It doesn't matter if the Chinese, Japanese and Taiwanese start a brawl over the waters. Once the U.S. Pacific Fleet becomes involved, it's GAME OVER for everyone else.
The thing is, the Americans won't try to actively instigate anything, so they will sit by and watch until something really drastic happens. If such thing happens, what will likely happen is that the Americans will park their battle fleet between the three other navies and get into a dare contest of which of the three will become obliterated first. (Most likely the Chinese, as the Japanese and Taiwanese both know better than to fuck around.)
@Rene The US GAVE Japan the Senkaku Islands back in 1971, so as far as the US is concerned, those islands belong to Japan and they can do whatever they please with them.
@anon 12:53 The easiest way to prevent an escalation is to get envolved. Wouldn't even need a whole battle group, just a handful of US frigates would be enough to tell China and Taiwan that playtime is over. Also China isn't even remotely an ally of the US.
@Anon14:28: Japan is one of America's strongest allies, you fucking retard. There's no way we'd "obliterate their navy," no matter what they did. We'd be fighting a war FOR THEM if it came to that.
@Conduit
The US GAVE the islands back to Japan, WHO STOLE those islands from China before WWII.
Don't really care who gets those islands now, but at least go into a bit more in detail of this whole mess. Ironically and technically US is the cause of all this BS.
No seriously; if the islands were given back to China instead of Japan, I honestly don't think the current events would even take place. Then again I guess Taiwan and China will be the only ones bitching about those resources. However I assume Japan would insist that they still would be owners of those islands before WWII....
Which basically made my point moot. Yep, they'll still fight over those rocks regardless once resources were made knowledgable.
@The Great Detective
Blah. Just throw their fave reality show at them and even if they're as quiet as a phonestrap, a passive sonar will suffice to pick them up.
@ 12:53 The PRC is NOT an ally of the US nor is it likely to be so. Japan is a strong ally and if that limp wristed fuck Obama (whose too busy sucking Chinese dick for campaign money) doesn't back them up he can forget about ever gaining trust from another country again.
If there was a real fight between China's navy and the US navy it would be a rather one sided fight as far as surface ships go.
Just two US carrier groups probably could sink the entire PLA Naval surface fleet including that outdated hulk of an aircraft carrier.
But their sub fleet could be a problem though they don't have any thing in the same league as Los Angeles and Virginia class attacks subs.
This, although there was that incident a few years back when the Chinese successfully tailed the Pacific Fleet flagship for a week and then surprise-surfaced within torpedo range of it.
Carriers don't shoot at other ships. That's what destroyers are for. If your carriers are involved in ship-to-ship battle, you are doing it wrong.
Yes carriers don't shoot at ships, but they have these cool things on them called Fighters (you might have seen them in a movie called TopGun). These contraptions have a very interesting way of sinking ships, that is, by flying over to them and then dropping various types of bombs on them until they sink.
Cruisers are really the modern ship-to-ship vessel, destroyers generally have more of a supporting role in a fleet.
You all are out dated! Look at Libya, almost whole country was bombarded with missiles.
Main land China can offer ground support with missiles, to all it's ships!
And carriers are useless against missiles.
Missile can go faster than MACH 4. In Russia they are developing MACH 8 missile protective system.
Also TopGun is stupid American propaganda movie - Mig can any time destroy F something.
So don't look stupid movies but learn history, and you will see that Mig's are superior.
@14:48
Meanwhile, the enemy has these cool things called fighters and they actually arm them for air-to-air combat, and ready to turn your inadequately armed fighters into fireballs.
Not to mention that modern AA is crazy effective and a given in any significant concentration of ships. Sending birds anywhere near those things is a one way trip.
Lol , it is chinese ship , they will automatically explode before they reach Senkaku .
ITT: Military experts.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/defence-strategic-issues/11451-modern-fighter-combat-records.html
A Mig can do what??
Japan Deploys Gundams. Good Game.
Taiwan is a ally of America you know. There is no way US will fight against Taiwan.
Ya right, a Mig can can out perform a Raptor , which is an "F something" by the way.
ITT: Retards who don't know military history.
F-14s and F-15/F-16 consistently outperformed migs in every real war engagement around the globe. Don't try to write it off to training or tactics or equipment. If mig is so much better, that just makes recent history of mig losses that much worse. As for AA, it takes on average over 17 missiles to bring down 1 aircraft. That is, if the AA can get a shot off before anti-AA weasels and enemy's own missiles don't detect the launcher and destroy it first. Those that are hard to detect (MANPADS) are limited in range. AA's are not invulnerable, and harder-to-detect aircraft and enemy's own ECM jamming makes it difficult for AA to get a good shot off before being detected and destroyed by counter fire. Only idiots think AA duty is not danger prone - Anti-AA measures have also developed consistently and now the game is cat and mouse on both sides. If you compare one average jet fighter cost to a launcher+people+missiles, trying to bring down one of two planes is not cost-effective when you lose your battery to counter fire.
As for missiles, it is important to know that guidance systems are what makes a missile a missile. Longer the distance, greater chance of interception and loss of lock. Not to mention those 'so fast' missiles are still missiles, and therefore capable of being shot down. Any attack on US ship by such missiles will be recognized as opening of war, and bases will be bombed to oblivion within hours. Besides, we can lose one carrier and two more will take its place if US converts its economy and government into a total war scenario.
Speaking of retards who don't know military history, why do you keep arguing about "Migs versus Fs" when the Chinese navy doesn't have a single Mig in service?
might be a bit outdated but, china's policy to naval battle is to install anti carrier missile batteries on their coasts and not to build lots of carriers, seeing as whatever they do they won't be able to match the 11 carrier fleets the u.s already have. Rather than fighters, you'll be seeing a lot of missiles firing at the u.s fleet and a lot of sinking carriers if they fight it out on the chinese coastline. As for the mig, an american pilot once flew it and said it outperformed any american plane he ever flew, though this is just one person and also this was like 30 years ago, I'm sure newer planes came out since then, for both sides.
Anyways, it probably won't reach that point, since the u.s still owe the chinese 1.4 trillion dollars.
Sure is a lot of deluded Americans in here.
I agree. Especially when your comment rating is at negative. Comes to prove you right.
@ 20:07 You must be Chinese trying to blow smoke up your own ass. Trust me, the US has ordinance in it's arsenal you'd have wet dreams of having.
If it comes down to a real war with no restraints by shit ass politicians China will be a big smoking hole.
No need.
The PLA aircraft carrier'll gonna blow. Chinese quality handmade, friend.
Yea, it will do what the Japanese did in WWII. Kamikaze their arsenal into the enemy.
The aircraft carrier probably won't explode, but their planes will explode before even taking off. That or they drop off the aircraft carrier and sink.
No, the carrier was bought from russia, so it will not explode. The airplanes might though.
At least there will be plenty of water to put out the fire WHEN it does explode.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002
The simulated combatants were the United States, referred to as "Blue", and an unknown adversary in the Middle East, "Red".
In a preemptive strike, Red launched a massive salvo of cruise missiles that overwhelmed the Blue forces' electronic sensors and destroyed sixteen warships. This included one aircraft carrier, ten cruisers and five of six amphibious ships. An equivalent success in a real conflict would have resulted in the deaths of over 20,000 service personnel.
Small boats can win against a big fleet.
LOL always the ones trying to dig up dirt reaches this favorite topic.
The whole point of an exercise is to point out weaknesses and flaws. That was a successful exercise that contributed to continued evolution of military tactics. Failing during exercise is the best result since the whole point is to learn from it. The fantasy of 'many little boats' swarming the carrier ignores extremely diverse power of modern arsenal that will detect and destroy those boats within close distances.
I would love to see chinese navy with its 'stellar' record going up against USN.
Well, there isn't any oil in those islands, as far as we know. So, probably never.
Actually there IS oil, or atleast its suspected that theres oil within the region of the Senkaku Islands, which is the entire reason why the Chinese government is trying to bully Japan into giving the islands back.
If there's sand, there's likely to be oil.
In this case, it is Taiwan not mainland China.
Oil, shmoil or Nyaruko-san - point is the sides appear to match each other's valuation of the isles.
Well, at least we'll get to see if HAARP is real or not one of these days.
i would say about a year. by then 1000s would die and we would be like "we must helpz them cauz we unerstandz everythingz and they dontz". a few moths later, japanese and taiwanese products are very cheap....... in only the USA for some reason. hmm.. i wonder why?
We might not be sticking our noses into this incident so soon, but we are already trying to get our (usual) military bases slapped around East Asia with "talks". Furthest it would lead to is the loudest bark wins.
Besides we are in no position to start playing hero again. The Middle East is already a drain on us and we're throwing more cash into subjgating POI around the world. I really doubt it would escalte into WWIII should we jump in. But if we do, you can be sure that N.Korea and Russia won't be sitting there and twiddling their thumbs. Also considering through many of our actions, I doubt the rest of EU is going to support us on another war game. Our mask isn't going to hold forever.
As much as we love to preach morality, peace and justice. We sure do love contradicting that, especially with all the evidence so far. I don't know if I would call us patriotic/nationalistic so we just ignore our passive aggression or we are just down right ignorant when it comes to our own bullshiterry, thinking about it now.
Ah, an American with common sense and that is not deluded.
If you mean the USA we could give a craps ass. Personally its time for Japan to get their shit together and build up a new military because they are going to find themselves in a situation where the USA will do nothing one day.
The old USA is dead, the new one does not have the will to deal with the Asia side, to many issues with the muslim part of the world.