Schoolgirl Killed in Cult Exorcism


A 13-year-old schoolgirl has been killed in an exorcism by her cultist father and a Buddhist monk, drowning after having been forced to undergo the ritual of the “waterfall austerity” over a hundred times.


The incident transpired in a Kumamoto prefecture town, where a 50-year-old man and a 56-year-old monk resolved to drive out the evil spirits which they believed possessed the man’s 13-year-old daughter.

Her father had apparently quit his job 4 years ago after finding religion, and became a full-time cultist from this time on. His daughter was described as quiet and normal by her classmates, but had ceased coming to school some months previously.


She was strapped into a chair with belts around her arms and legs around 3AM on the night of the 27th, and then had her face forcibly doused with a stream of water continuously falling from an outlet 2.5m above her for 5 minutes at a rate of 40 litres a minute.

She suffocated to death during the ordeal, which she had apparently been forced to endure 100 times over the last 3 months.

Locals had apparently heard her screaming on many occasions, and the cult had been the subject of many complaints due to its endless banging of drums, chantings of sutras, and comings and goings late at night.

The murder came to light when the girl’s father called her school to inform them that his daughter “died in the pursuit of the waterf austerities.”

Police arrested both men on manslaughter charges soon after.

Her father maintains his innocence, saying it was necessary to drive the evil forces from her, but regrets that it ended in her death.

She had been absent from school for 7 months, but despite 6 visits to her home her teacher was repeatedly told she was not home by her father, an explanation the school apparently accepted without further question.

Local educational authorities are not keen to accept any responsibility for not noticing one of their pupils was being victimised by a cult:

“If a pupil is ill all we can do is ask their parents. Her father was not behaving suspiciously, so we do not think we can be faulted.

We do wonder whether we might have been able to do something to prevent this, though.


We trusted the parents, and this is the result. We wish to ensure this kind of incident is never repeated.”

The cult to which the men belonged, known as Nakayama Shingo Shusho, was originally founded by Yasaka Kakue, a Shingon sect monk who lived from 1870-1942 and who formed three such sects over the course of his life, each of which is now apparently ruled by one of his descendants.

Shingon Buddhism itself is noted for being esoteric and highly secretive (such sects are hardly known in the west), and the Nakayama group is barely known even in Japan – although like a number of similar groups, they have constructed a huge temple complex deep in the mountains:


The Japanese government says the group was formally recognised as a religious organisation in 1952, and currently has about 350 temples and churches, and as of 2008 “305,555” believers.

The organisation has yet to make any formal comment on the incident, although believers have been quick to denounce the killing as a distortion of their teachings, claiming the practice is supposed to be a voluntary one for cleansing the soul – and that they have no idea where anyone could get it into their heads that it could be used in exorcising evil spirits.

Although most Japanese are essentially irreligious, much of what is lumped together as “Shinto” and “Buddhism” in Japan actually consists of diverse and not infrequently highly cultish and bizarre “new religions,” Buddhist sects and Shinto (animistic) traditions.

These are not generally subject to a great deal of outside scrutiny – save when it transpires they have been sexually enslaving members or plotting to gas the Tokyo subway.

Online there is little appreciation of the mortal necessity of driving evil spirits from schoolgirls:

“300,000 crazies…”

“As a father, I can’t forgive the father who could do this.”

“The evil spirit which was assailing her was her father.”

“The number of people religion kills vastly exceeds those it saves.”

“The girl they drowned to death was the righteous one – she never gave in to her father and the monk.”

“Those filthy monks claimed another victim!? And a young girl as well! Nobunaga had the right idea – secularise the nation, tax the monasteries and force the monks back into secular life!”

“The possessed ones were clearly the monk and her father.”

“Tax the religious entities already!”

“Since when can you force someone to undergo an ‘austerity’ anyway? The whole point is you do voluntarily?”

“Religious people are all nuts, as you might expect.”

“The dregs being tricked into this rubbish by swindling cults, as ever. They really ought to tax these organisations.”

“As if they have 300,000 believers. That’s probably just what they claim.”

“Another mini-Aum Shinrikyo. These new religions ought to be destroyed.”

“What kind of idiot is frightened of evil spirits when there are men who will do this kind of thing around.”

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    Comment by Anonymous
    13:53 28/09/2011 # ! Quality (+1.0)

    Great pics. They could be used as the basis for a new Counterstrike or Splinter Cell map.

    Comment by Anonymous
    08:05 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Such beautiful place, tainted by an innocent girl's death and a stupid cult.

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:49 28/09/2011 # ! Quality (+1.0)

    “What kind of idiot is frightened of evil spirits when there are men who will do this kind of thing around.”

    Truer words have never been spoken (or posted on a BBS).

    Avatar of Anonymous
    Comment by Anonymous
    22:06 28/09/2011 # ! Good (+0.4)

    she's the next Jigoku Shoujo

    Comment by Anonymous
    23:11 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (+0.4)

    I will deliver your vengeance! :D

    Comment by Anonymous
    12:33 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    And the local school are incompetent fucktards, when there's been screams in the night and weird drum beating then adding 2+2 should be rather easy.

    It is impossible for that stuff not to be well known in the area and the teachers were just fucking cowards for not pushing the issue with the police.

    Comment by Anonymous

    not even close like Islam do.. []

    Comment by Anonymous
    01:25 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Xenophobe scum.

    Comment by Anonymous

    That's a bold claim. Religion of Peace has something called Jihad....

    Comment by Anonymous
    01:51 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    So, what about it? A "struggle" can hardly be considered "bad" or "wrong".
    That's like saying "achieving good grades at school is immoral".

    It's the hardliners that cause all the grief. And that includes the people behind

    May Amaterasu have mercy with their souls.

    Comment by Anonymous
    15:55 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    most use "Jihad" when referring to "Jihad bil Saif"
    Interpreting "Jihad" only as inner "struggle" and ignoring it's many meanings is a compatibly recent development among moderate muslims.

    Comment by Anonymous
    15:00 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    On the plus side marrying up to four lolis is legal.. but only fellatio until they reach an age where they won't be "damaged"
    (the prophet thought it was OK once his last wife turned nine.
    The age seems to be valid, she is recorded to have played with puppets at a time after it happened, which was not allowed for girls after their first period)

    If you're into "older" women, raping someones wife might be your thing.
    There won't be much consequences as she will need to get four male witnesses to get you persecuted.
    If she doesn't manage to find four, she'll be stoned to death for adultery if she talks about it.

    The fujoshi might not be very happy though as you'll have execute all gay couples you find by throwing them from high places.

    ...and there will be no turning back from your decision, it's not in the book but a hadith claims the prophet was in favor of killing apostates... (no burning though)

    If you peel all the padding and modernizing from the religion that's what you'll find at it's core, most are moderate but the text itself isn't (if you read it in the proper chronological order of revelation).

    Pretty much the opposite of christianity where you end up with pacifist hippies once you take away all of the added structure of the church and consider the pacifist new testaments teachings to have priority over the jewish old testament, like the later more militarist revelations in medina of have over the older ones written down in mekka.

    Comment by Anonymous
    11:19 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Unfortunately Mohammed was one of the hardliners and he wrote the Qur'an.

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:49 28/09/2011 # ! Quality (+1.0)

    sounds like a fatal frame plot. :<

    Comment by Anonymous
    15:11 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (+0.4)

    Yep, that's what I thought. Crazy ass rituals that involve torture or death....Fatal Frame. Too bad she can't come back to haunt her dad and everyone else involved for the rest of their sorry lives.

    Comment by Anonymous
    18:35 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    What if her dad also becomes a hostile ghost? Plenty of victims and victimizers became ghosts in Zero's story.

    Watch out, camfags. If your DSLR's 'on' light flashes deep orange, get ready to zoom in with your 3000 bucks lens and light that motherfucker up! lol

    Avatar of yuriphoria
    Comment by yuriphoria
    02:07 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Kinda what I was thinking. Of course evil spirits aren't real but if they were -as it happens on so many games and anime- incidents like this could even be justified as (failed) exorcisms.

    How many events in bleach, holic and such could be interpreted as "crazy ass people doing crazy things"?

    Comment by Anonymous
    20:56 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    How about Blood C?

    Avatar of Andices
    Comment by Andices
    09:02 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Nice job anon, now's that a good game when i heard one. Finished 1 2 3 except 4 which is on X-Box360 and untranslated ==

    Comment by
    12:40 28/09/2011 # ! Quality (+0.9)

    “The number of people religion kills vastly exceeds those it saves.”

    Comment by Anonymous
    17:41 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    Eh, I know plenty of people who have religion and it has either really helped them find peace, or they have it but you don't really notice as it is only a small part of who they are as a person.

    I make it a point to never hate on someone's beliefs, as I wouldn't want anyone hating on me for my beliefs (or lack thereof.)

    I judge people as individuals. It seems pointless to point the finger at religion. It's more effective to just separate the good from the crazies. You mean a lot more interesting people with an open mind.

    Comment by Anonymous
    17:59 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    still, 90% of all wars in the history of man are religion based.... it never brings anything good. On a personal level, it might have helped a fool or two, but on a massive scale, religion is nothing but a control device to control the masses.

    Comment by Anonymous
    05:33 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Where in the bible does it say that waterboarding is cool? Probably in revelations.

    Comment by Anonymous
    06:09 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    I think something is off about your reading comprehension.........

    Comment by Anonymous
    18:26 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    technically. bad guys who start wars often use religion to rally support. That doesn't mean the conflict was caused by religion. For example, the Sino-Japanese war, the Iraq war, the troubles of northern Ireland (if you could call it a war, I would call it a conflict).

    Most of the 90% of religion-involved wars were not induced by religion. There have been some, such as the Islamic conquests or possibly the crusades (At least, it couldn't have happened without Christianity) but there have also been wars that have been prevented by religion.

    As long as there are Buddhists (most sects wouldn't dream of anything like this), Jains, Taoists and Caodaiists, I wont be blaming violence on religion.

    Comment by Anonymous
    18:13 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    You're ignoring that not all religions are the same and not all are intended to control.

    The illogical thing here is that people are blaming dozens upon dozens of abstract concepts rather than looking at the big picture.

    Resources, race, culture, property, and more. All these things cause war. Even without religion, these things would still happen.

    And to say that 90% of all wars in history are cause by religion means that you haven't done your homework. While some had heavily religions tones, religion is actually the scapegoat for several other reasons people went to war.

    For example, there are several holy wars that were actually done for political reasons.

    Also, to say it is a control device undermines human intelligence, as it should be painfully obvious that not all those with religion will turn into extremists any more than all students will pull a Columbine because those boys happened to be high school students. In many wars, the majority of one side happened to be a certain religion due to region, and it was taken as a holy war.

    Lastly, it isn't far to call people fools for believing in something you don't. It makes you just as bad as those people who try to convert others.

    Comment by Anonymous
    21:36 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Religion requires the follower to forgo any kind of critical appraisal of the religious dogma and blindly follow it. This is valid for every religion that comes to mind. If I need to point out just how dangerous this particular mindset is, then you clearly don't understand just how gullible you, and me, and every other member of our species is.

    I make it a point to never hate on someone's beliefs, as I wouldn't want anyone hating on me for my beliefs (or lack thereof.)

    Then you shouldn't hate the men in this article. All they did was believe, right?

    And you shouldn't hate my belief in the Chaos gods either. After all, I only do sacrifices to Krone on Saturdays and Sundays.
    By the way, are you free next Saturday?

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:13 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    thats why i don't subscribe to any particular religion.. don't get me wrong, I belive in god.. I just don't care for some high and mighty human saying he/she speaks for god.... then asks me to kill in his name... er.. Go Fuck yourself!!

    Comment by Anonymous
    02:38 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    This is what I believe exactly. I believe in God, but humans are flawed!!

    Comment by Anonymous
    18:23 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    The intolerance and lack of logical thought directed towards people who have a religion is ironic.

    Comment by Anonymous
    18:32 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    The intolerance and lack of logical thought directed towards supposed heathens of a different religion by supposed religious people is highly ironic.

    The Crusades were a grand ol time, right?

    Comment by Anonymous
    02:35 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    People ignore that much of what happened during the Crusades was actually political.

    Comment by Anonymous
    18:25 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Having a religion and believing in God are not the same thing. You can easily believe in God without joining a religion.

    I'd even wager to say this is much more logical, as much more thought is put into that belief when someone isn't there to interfere with what your life experience tells you.

    I have absolutely no problem with people believe in God. I do have a problem with they don't read, acknowledge, or know their own holy texts so that they can understand or explain any possible contradictions.

    Comment by Anonymous
    21:59 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    No it's not. Hypothetically, it's more likely that a god does not exist. That is because god must either originate from an intelligent species that appeared through evolution, or it must have always existed, which contradicts everything, and I do mean everything we know.
    The ability of informational systems (ie life) to process and retain information itself is entropic in nature, and to our knowledge, impossible otherwise. More importantly however, the non-entropic universe theory means it's completely deterministic and everything you do has been "charted in the stars" so to speak.

    Yes, we have incomplete understanding of our universe, let alone cosmology, but the fact is, that nothing we know about the universe supports the god theory in slightest. On the other hand, it's mundane to explain god as a function to the flaws of our species. We are very good at imagining things that aren't really there.

    Comment by Anonymous
    01:23 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Seriously? Belief in any god requires religion, unless you just made that god up yourself. And how the hell is that more logical when that very god is influecing you?!

    Comment by Anonymous
    02:37 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    That's absolutely incorrect. Belief in a God is nothing more than that. Religion is an actual system or institution.

    You don't need religion to believe in God. This is elementary school knowledge.

    Comment by Anonymous
    05:34 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    That is the definition of religion, making up your own gods, dumbass!

    Comment by Anonymous
    06:08 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    I think 5:34 needs a dictionary.

    Comment by Anonymous
    06:21 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Religion is an institution, not to be confused with a belief in God, which can be done without a specific religion.

    What you are saying is basically like telling someone they can't believe 2+2=4 without going to school.

    Avatar of Masshuu-San
    Comment by Masshuu-San

    sadly it is not religion's fault. We as humans are just monsters and demons. We take things way to far and way beyond where they where meant to go. In the end it becomes a guns dont kill people, people kill people situation.

    All I'm saying is even without religion this man made have still done this and its sad very very sad.

    When it all becomes quiet only the paranoia of the mind will be left and it will be as a sword though the body, slow and agonizing

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:15 28/09/2011 # ! Good (+0.8)

    I agree.

    Last time I recall, religions are also invented by humans.

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:36 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    I am yet to hear of someone kill or torture another human in the name of 2D loli.

    Comment by Anonymous
    23:32 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0) the god of LOLI.

    Comment by Anonymous
    04:11 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    @22:36 well, but i heard about ppl who were stalking, bashing and threatening others in name of 2D lolis
    @NakkiNyan, flattening 3D loli is not a good idea

    Comment by Anonymous
    15:58 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)


    there's actually not much of a difference to other religions.
    both the christian god and 2D lolis are imaginary products mady by humans.

    at which point is something considered to be a religion anyway?
    if it's numbers, then we are one. there are more than enough loli-lovers all around the world.
    if it's constancy, lolicon has been around for quite a while and it looks like it will stay.

    if we all got together and started worshipping dem lolis then technically we would have formed a religion.

    all hail the loli

    Avatar of NakkiNyan
    Comment by NakkiNyan
    15:30 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    I should invent a religion that says I should have a loli harem. Of course 3D lolis are a pain in the ass so it would be 2D ... sort of defeating the purpose.

    Comment by Anonymous
    17:26 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    I don't mean to alarm you, but if a loli harem is a pain in your ass, you're doing something wrong (some pain in the lolis' asses, OTOH, is perfectly normal at first, of course, though you may still be doing something wrong if the pain persists)

    Avatar of alidan
    Comment by alidan
    15:55 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    yea, without religion, man would still be an evil pile of shit...

    im not joking, its what i hear all the time, and i do believe it to be true.

    HOWEVER, and this is a big fucking HOWEVER

    without religion manipulating the stupid for a "divine power" than we wouldn't have people killing in the name of an imaginary friend. yea we would still fucking kill, dont get me wrong, but the stupid people wouldnt rally under a invisible boogey man.

    Avatar of Float
    Comment by Float
    16:16 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    kudos on the most balanced comment here

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:28 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    True i have read a legal case where non religious people try to exorcize demons out by forcing a kid to drink water. The concept is that by vomiting the water, demons will be expelled along with the water.

    The kid eventually died by drowning sadly.

    Avatar of Heigen
    Comment by Heigen
    13:46 28/09/2011 # ! Quality (+0.8)

    This water exorcism seems like a insufficient way to do it if most of the time the person dies. Religions are so dumb. :/

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:31 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Nice try, troll harder next time.

    Comment by Anonymous
    15:18 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)


    the "which-hunt" itself wasn't primarily targeted towards whiches, which unlike the common interpretation is a sexually neutral word referring to both man and woman.
    It was targeted at heretics, which becomes clear once you read the trail examples featured in Malleus Maleficarum.

    Comment by Anonymous
    15:59 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Reminds me of this case in New Zealand how some maori use water exorcism to rid of the demon. I think it resulted in the mother
    's death.
    check it out []

    Avatar of HouseLife
    Comment by HouseLife
    16:39 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)


    The witchcraft trials were such an elaborate attack against the Goddess energy that it's hard for me, whose researched it, to even follow the logic, because it's so selfish and unreasonable that I can't even find its logical source. It was merely to wrest control away from women of intellect. It was a lot more than that, but all the torture and 'tests' were nothing more than excuses to kill knowledge among the women.

    When I think about the shamanic knowledge of herbs we lost from all the midwives and healers who were killed in the name of witchcraft, I honestly start to tear up. If they had lived to continue their research and care, then the medical profession today would be a place of actual healing. The only possible way that the current medical system could exist is due to a masculine domination in the concept of 'healing.' It's invasive in every form, and the smear campaign against the true nature of internal healing still goes on to this day in the morons who think naturopathic and homeopathic medicine is somehow a fad or a lie.

    Avatar of Darkrockslizer
    Comment by Darkrockslizer
    15:24 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Well, if your aim is to get rid of the demon, it IS very effective... nobody said anything about saving the person from it :D

    You know, in medieval there were many tests to see if you're a witch/wizard. Like they threw you into a river you swim out, you're a witch they burn you on the stake. You drown you weren't, oh well ┐(´ー`)┌

    Comment by Anonymous
    17:46 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    This is true. I completely agree.

    Everyone has their own beliefs. When we start blaming religion and its concepts for people not being assholes, those people get away with a lot more because they know now that they can hide behind religion as the scapegoat.

    The reality is, if this father didn't have religion, he would have done some other sadistic shit to his daughter. Point blank.

    If there is one thing I have learned from the variety of people I've met, it's that religion doesn't make non-violent people into violent people, and a violent person who accepts a religion won't suddenly become non-violent.

    Religion gets the bad rap because it's easy. Look at how much attention it got on this article. But it's more effective and logical to judge the man himself. Blaming something abstract is meaningless in the way of justice.

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:09 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Everyone has their own beliefs.

    Well, I don't. And I'm not the only one.

    When we start blaming religion and its concepts for people not being assholes

    An asshole is someone who steals your car stereo.
    Someone mentally ill enough to torture and kill their own kid is on a whole other level.

    those people get away with a lot more because they know now that they can hide behind religion as the scapegoat.

    The problem is that they form entire communities of their own, where it's very difficult to notice something is amiss until it's too late.

    The reality is, if this father didn't have religion, he would have done some other sadistic shit to his daughter. Point blank.

    That's just empty speculation.

    If there is one thing I have learned from the variety of people I've met, it's that religion doesn't make non-violent people into violent people, and a violent person who accepts a religion won't suddenly become non-violent.

    There goes the idea that religion magically cures every bad thing in the world. And I was just about to convert too!

    Religion gets the bad rap because it's easy.

    It gets bad rap because people do terrible things in the name or under the guise of religion, and the way we treat religion lets them get away with it. See Scientology.

    But it's more effective and logical to judge the man himself.

    It's more effective and logical to send the person to a psychiatrist before anything terrible happens. I know that if I suddenly started talking about "evil spirits", I'd be in a mental health institution by the time it takes me to memorize one bible passage backwards. But how about when your community openly encourages talking about "evil spirits"?

    Blaming something abstract is meaningless in the way of justice.

    Indoctrination and brain washing is hardly "something abstract".

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:20 28/09/2011 # ! Drivel (-0.8)

    wrong, abortion (devil's influence) has killed hundreds of millions, religion has cleansed tens of thousands, and those were sinners and criminals

    Many ignorant people here, faith in God is the only reason God let us understand his world through his gift of science "the study of God's work"


    Avatar of shiroki
    Comment by shiroki
    16:17 28/09/2011 # ! Quality (+0.8)

    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
    Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing?
    Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing?
    Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing?
    Then why call him God?"

    Have a good day

    Comment by Anonymous
    18:36 28/09/2011 # ! Good (+0.6)

    And that kids - is the reasion why we call god the Troll Master.

    Comment by Anonymous
    17:21 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (+0.4)

    You got that a bit backwards Float.

    Let's work with the premise that the Genesis tale is true.

    Leads to the following problems.
    - If God wanted absolute obedience to his Laws, then he shouldn't have given Man free will.

    It's like giving people a cupcake and then telling them it's forbidden for them to eat it. Why give it, if they're not allowed to eat it?

    Same with free will.. You're allowed to do whatever you want, long as it coincides with my demands. If not, then you're SOL.

    As he's Omniscient he should've known that it would never work. So again, why bother giving it then?

    - If said free will was a result of eating the Apple from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Then why put the thing in the Garden then?

    As God is omniscient, then he would have to know that Adam and Eve would eat from it.

    Meaning that he set them up from the word go, and that goes against the whole idea that God is just.

    So he punished them for something that he himself could've easily prevented from happening.

    And that's just two issues you run into. Wee bit too tired right now to recall the other ones.

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:43 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    I'll just leave this link here: []

    Avatar of Chen-04
    Comment by Chen-04
    21:01 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    >>And that's just two issues you run into. Wee bit too tired >>right now to recall the other ones.

    The funny thing is, once people confronted religious people with these issues, suddenly, they agreed that you mustn't take those things literally.

    They also went from "There is a god" to "You can't prove there isn't".

    If this wasn't as sad as it is, I would laugh my ass off.

    Comment by Anonymous
    01:44 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    >It's like giving people a cupcake and then telling them it's forbidden for them to eat it. Why give it, if they're not allowed to eat it?

    Have you ever do that to a dog (or seen it done to a dog)? Put some food in front of a dog and order it not to eat.

    Avatar of Chen-04
    Comment by Chen-04
    04:06 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    >>It's like giving people a cupcake and then telling them >>it's forbidden for them to eat it. Why give it, if they're not >>allowed to eat it?

    >Have you ever do that to a dog (or seen it done to a dog)? >Put some food in front of a dog and order it not to eat.

    It's called training, which is a workaround, and has nothing to do with the topic.

    The difference, for those who don't find it obvious: we have dogs and want them to do what we want. In the story, god creates people. If he was really trying to make people do what he wants them to do, he just could have maked them that way. And if he was kinda bored and wanted something he could train, he would have. But he didn't bother to train and just watched, as far as the story goes the character god is ja major jackass.

    Avatar of Float
    Comment by Float

    Evil comes from the freedom to make choices, and I'm sure you'd get upset if someone took away your freedom to do less than efficient things (like browse here, I'd bet all this wasted time harms your ability to mix around with other members of society or form the Master Set of Ethical Rules to End Evil). Therefore, willing has to be able to get people to stop doing evil of their own volition. Success has been rather mixed, at least people rarely kill just to watch others die anymore.

    Avatar of Mere
    Comment by Mere
    15:27 28/09/2011 # ! Quality (+0.8)

    She's trolling guys, how in the fuck would someone this religious ever come across this place. Lol.

    Comment by คภєк๏
    12:49 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Chen, when in doubt, I see no reason not to go by the name. It's not like it matters.

    Avatar of Chen-04
    Comment by Chen-04
    20:53 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (-0.2)

    Who decided it is a she?

    Comment by คภєк๏
    14:01 28/09/2011 # ! Good (+0.7)

    Write to us from the afterlife and let us know if it's what you expected.

    Comment by คภєк๏
    00:08 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Anon, how will I know if it's what she expected? Try again.

    Comment by Anonymous
    18:05 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    No need. You will know by yourself when you die.

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:59 28/09/2011 # ! Good (+0.6)

    why does there have to be a god? are we so helpless we can not find our own way with our own knowledge we have obtained? or is your brain to small to see a larger picture of how things really are?

    Just a question :D

    Avatar of Yoshii-kun
    Comment by Yoshii-kun
    15:10 28/09/2011 # ! Good (+0.6)

    Some people find comfort in following a higher or superior being to know they're on the righteous path to whatever rewards they may receive or not in the current or next life.

    Just living out your own life and avoiding extremism should be good enough to escape the (supposedly) fire of hell (that probably awaits me after this life).

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:08 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    Some people probably want to have a feeling of belonging or purpose. Honestly I don't care if people believe or not if they're not being annoying about it. And if religious people are more likely to donate and more likely to donate more (even to nonreligious charities) all the more power to them.

    Avatar of HouseLife
    Comment by HouseLife
    16:30 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    Religion has little to do with anything as a whole. Even unrelated mass deaths in history can eventually be traced back to the intention of one party or another to cleanse or save a group of people based on the will of a higher power that someone somewhere is better than someone else.

    As usual, religion is not the problem, stupid people are, but unfortunately there's a correlation between stupid people and religion. Religious people point to Ghandi, Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King, and many other figures that were of prominent religious background in some form or another, but the reality is that they were wise more than they were religious. Look at their words, and they have nothing to do with religion, but speak to the teachings of the original source. If you look at the instances in history of religion leading to violence vs. religion leading to prosperity, it becomes almost statistical that with all the horrid crap that occurs with religion, at least SOME good things MUST come from it. Always remember, Catholicism and Christianity are NOT the same as the teachings of Christ.

    Faith is and always will be the stepping stone to understanding. Those who stop at faith in the face of change and new knowledge are restricting their evolution as a spiritual being. When science disproves religion, which it does many times, the wise amongst them move on and learn how to be closer to Spirit through the knowledge. The arrogant and fearful (the rest) cling mindlessly to that which gives them false belief in their own power, while remaining powerless. It's almost beautiful in its sadness how powerful the human ego can be in protecting people from themselves.

    Comment by Anonymous
    17:17 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    You DO realize that all the examples you listed are totalitarian dictatures, don't you? Sure, the ones in power there outlawed/repressed religion, but it was simply a matter of quashing potential rivals. It isn't any better when the nutjobs in power use religion instead of repressing it: Talibans, the Inquisition, Puritans,...

    Avatar of Chen-04
    Comment by Chen-04
    17:35 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    The sentence involved only religion and claimed that more were killed by it, rather than saved. (Though religions sometime claim that killing means saving.)

    So, there is a comparison between killing and saving, but only through religion. Which means there is no point in comparing killings, at least not on this topic.

    I think the main point was, that religion is pointless, as it kills far more than it claims to save.

    I btw don't hold the killing against religions. Killing is the natural way of life, I just criticize the hypocrisy of claiming to do good while doing all those atrocities. Even nowadays. And not just the small time religions.

    Avatar of Ethan
    Comment by Ethan
    18:16 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    "And one more thing people will kill each other even without religions but on far lesser scale we see now."

    Bloody naive.

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:12 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Ethan-->Bloody naive.

    You made a point! Oh not only trolling without ANY credibility in those TWO words you posted.

    Comment by Anonymous
    17:57 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    I agree with Float. While religion might get blamed as a cause of violence, it's typically rather caused by people who are killing for other reasons, who just use religion as one way to get people backing them. If they weren't using religion as an excuse to cause harm to others, they would be using something else, whether that be race, politics, economics or any number of things. There might be exceptions, but I think for the most part religion does more good than it does harm.

    Getting back to the point of the original post, it is kind of absurd that it's considered perfectly legal in most places to kill someone before they're born, but not after. Some might argue that their minds aren't developed enough yet at that point, but really, aside from perhaps at the very early stages, they must have some degree of consciousness, even if they aren't yet experiencing the world as most people do.

    Avatar of NakkiNyan
    Comment by NakkiNyan
    15:25 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    'Many ignorant people here, faith in God is the only reason God let us understand his world through his gift of science "the study of God's work"'

    How Ironic she says this yet provides no scientific proof of her invisible space monkey. I guess her god gave us the discount gift of science.

    Avatar of Chen-04
    Comment by Chen-04
    20:52 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    >>Religion IS the worst killer on this planet.

    I believe this to be wrong and suggest that the worst killer on this planet are people who are part of a psychological crowd. (Anybody could be part of one.)

    Religion is just one way to create such a crowd and because religion lost most of their redeeming features I agree that we should stop giving them special treatment, as in money.

    Comment by Anonymous
    17:14 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    You are a sad pathetic little monkey Float. Those dictatorships didnt like to share power with anyone and the second power in those countries (at that time) was religion. And btw communist states operate like a religious sects. North Korea is a great example.

    And blaming mass murderings on "lack of god or faith in floating bearded man" is just retarded.

    Religion IS the worst killer on this planet. And ignorant and hypocritical people like you will take all of us down the drain sooner or later.

    Avatar of Float
    Comment by Float
    16:12 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (-0.2)

    all the cool kids call each other stupid on the internet!
    Seriously though, you're going to skip past her main point to complain about where she's coming from? Just a question.

    Actually on the subject: anyone who complains that religion kills so much is wrong. Look at societies without religion. Engineered famines in the Soviet Union and China alone took out 50 million. Eastern bloc countries had their officer corps brutally purged and the general population could be harassed at any time. Other examples are North Korea and the Khmer Rouge. This is what happens when religion plays no role in society. And sure, abortion kills a lot too.

    Comment by Anonymous

    And one more thing people will kill each other even without religions but on far lesser scale we see now.

    Comment by Anonymous

    The main point of her argument does not say that God has to exist, but it instead suggests that religion does not kill more than it saves. I'm inclined to agree with her opinion when presented with anti-religious cases such as the Soviet Union (gulags, Great Purge, Holodomor and other genocide), Red China (suppression of Falun Gong, Tiananmen Square, Great Leap Forward), Khmer Rouge (killed a quarter of their own population), and the Mongols (who overall became nicer to their subjects after embracing Christianity and Islam).

    Also, insulting someone's intelligence is generally a douche move, but what do I know?

    Avatar of Lycopene
    Comment by Lycopene
    16:07 28/09/2011 # ! Good (+0.4)

    Successful troll is amazingly successful. Congratulations, sir. Congratulations.

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:41 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    You know, starting a religious flamewar when a significant portion of the people here have been itching to have a religious flamewar as soon as they read the title is hardly a "successful troll".

    Avatar of SaltyPenguin
    Comment by SaltyPenguin
    15:56 28/09/2011 # ! Good (+0.4)

    Ahh, I'm, glad I'm not a christian anymore...spewing that much bullshit gets tiring.

    Comment by Anonymous
    02:42 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    I know plenty of Christians who don't spew bullshit. If you were the type of person to spew bullshit just because you were Christian I doubt you stopped now.

    Comment by Anonymous
    19:39 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    That's a logical fallacy which fails to account that Penguin may have been in an environment where he only had contact with bullshit spewing Christian. This is very common in the more fundamentalist communities.

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:56 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (+0.4)

    Probably one of those alcoholics.

    Avatar of Mere
    Comment by Mere
    13:23 28/09/2011 # ! Good (+0.3)

    ....Oh dear.

    Comment by Anonymous
    15:18 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    God is a replacement for parents when we all grow up and we push this absurdity on our own children so they can in-turn push this absurdity on their children. It's like how the Americans still us Imperial measurement. They know it's not as accurate as Metrics yet they still use it out of habit and the unfounded pride in being different. They had it pushed on them and they push it on their children.

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:17 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    samantha you're probably a whore

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:45 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    There is no god.

    Comment by Anonymous
    14:02 28/09/2011 # ! Good (+0.6)

    Hawt Loli's are my GodS though.

    Avatar of Darkrockslizer
    Comment by Darkrockslizer
    15:18 28/09/2011 # ! Good (+0.4)

    Actually, there's no way to check whether there is a "god" or not. But why would it even matter if it/he/she does not interact with our world anyways? ^_^

    Comment by
    15:44 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (-0.2)

    It's also important to note that religion gives people the excuse to be intolerant, just like Samantha.

    Avatar of Float
    Comment by Float
    16:44 28/09/2011 # ! Good (+0.4)

    just as irreligion gives people the excuse to be intolerant, but hey, we can admit misinformed people on both sides do a lot of bad things, right?

    Avatar of kazaza2
    Comment by kazaza2
    01:42 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    Samantha is like herpes. She keeps coming back at inappropriate times.

    Avatar of Hugo Kim
    Comment by Hugo Kim

    People like you should be killed. Not even joking.

    Comment by Anonymous
    14:08 28/09/2011 # ! Good (+0.6)

    People like you should be exorcised. Not even joking.

    To say Shingon is "hardly known in the West" is false. Most anyone who studies Asian languages, history, or literature should know about it. It's one of the more famous sects. It's all over the place. :-/

    Comment by Anonymous
    23:17 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    To say Shingon is "hardly known in the West" is false. Most anyone who studies Asian languages, history, or literature should know about it.

    People who study Asian languages and culture are hardly a large portion of western society.

    Comment by Anonymous
    15:18 29/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Proud to be atheist..

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:53 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Wow Hugo. Really?
    How dare you say something like that? Wishing death upon someone for having different views. You're such a narrow minded asshole. Why are you even on sancom?

    All people like YOU should be killed.

    Inb4 hypocrite.
    It was a joke people.

    Avatar of Imyou
    Comment by Imyou
    15:16 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Really? I study Buddhism (in the West,) and I'm only peripherally aware of Shingon. I've heard it's fairly mainstream in Japan, but esoteric sects seem rare in North America - if anything, there's a strong leaning either to Zen or secular distillations of core concepts, or to Tibetan Buddhism in my experience.

    Comment by Anonymous
    17:19 28/09/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    Hugo Kim i hope you are trolling if not your a pathetic piece of shit. Oh and an hypocritical fuck.

    A religious fanatic wanting to kill people who dont believe or whats worse! Left their religion.

    You are a true christian Hugo keep up the good work lol...

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:13 28/09/2011 # ! Drivel (-0.8)

    lol it just shows that people don't listen in history class o.O

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