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“Ero-Manga Prevents Rape? So You’re All Sex Criminals?”

nopan-lucchini-by-shimada-fumikane

Strike Witches creator and general loli pantsu mangaka par excellence Fumikane Shimada has expressed his disapproval with the oft-repeated argument that censorship of ero-manga will increase sex crimes.

Fumikane on the “catharsis” argument that porn reduces sex crime:

“I cannot abide the ero-manga catharsis theory – treating all ero-manga readers as potential sex criminals is not something I like.”

This is the argument that otaku are latent sex fiends and all that keeps them from raping little girls is the ready availability of such esteemed lolicon publications as  LO. Ban their manga, and you unleash these perverts on your children, imply the advocates of this position.

Even such great mangaka as Kentaro Miura have fallen into the trap of espousing this hideous argument, his great mind perhaps dulled by too many hours spent idol fancying.

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That great hive of actual sex criminals weighs in on the topic with its usual insight:

“Show me a human who isn’t a potential sex criminal!”

“It’s right – otaku are potential sex offenders. Take away their manga and they’ll start raping little girls.”

“It’s more like this:

Hysterical pro-censorship types: ‘It increases sex crimes so it should be banned!’

Clever censorship opponents: ‘There’s no data to support that hypothesis and no scientific basis to think that it would increase sex crimes.’

Normal censorship opponents: ‘Banning it may increase the number of rapes!’

Idiot censorship opponents: ‘Ban it and you’ll cause more rapes!'”

The “catharsis” argument is of course not only without any basis in fact, it also plays straight into the hands of censorship advocates by conceding that the ranks of the group being targeted are indeed filled with deviants and criminals, just as censorship advocates were shrieking all along.

It is for this reason that those defending murder simulators, the devil’s music and all the debauchery of the printed word are rarely caught saying their medium is all that is stopping more of their ranks from unleashing their murderous impulses on society.

It is hard to see why any ero-manga fans would not be well served by adopting the same position and refusing to acknowledge any supposed connection between their favoured art-form and the prevention or promotion of sex crimes.

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186 Comments

  • This mangaka is an idiot. The reasoning is that if someone has a higher than normal sexual drive (which most pursuers of pornography do have), if their drives are not sated in some other way when they are cut off from sex with someone who they are sexually compatible with, they can turn to rape in a mentally discognitive moment to sate their desires.

    Rape is not about power, contrary to popular belief by psychologists and the media. It is SOLELY about sexual gratification in almost all cases.

    • Actually it is about power because you have to be able to overpower the victim to rape them, doofus.

      It’s simple, watching cartoons is not going to stop a rapist from raping people and it’s just a cartoon.

    • No.
      Then again, If you guys think about it:

      I.E. I like kids. So much so I have no qualms of having a sexual relationship with one, provided she knows what she’s getting at. If she doesn’t then I take the role of “elder brother” instead. If ever she does, then that’s no problem to me. Rape is out of the question. So is coercion and brainwashing. The rule here is “not to force or hurt anyone”.

      So in the “normal” people view, I am a sex offender and should be put to death…. LOLZ….

      • Forgetting that you were a kid, previous poster…. those people who say that they ‘hate children’ have a habit of forgetting that they were once children and have a habit of saying that children are ‘disrespectful’ towards adults when their parents have really just taught them that EVEN ADULTS have to EARN their respect.

      • Boozedimpulsegundam says:

        no I just think you must get the shit kicked out of you a lot. If not by the actual girl’s elder brothers or fathers then cocerned neighbours seeing an adult trolling after little girls. I know i would beat the piss out of you if you went after any kid I have.

  • This is just Japan’s plot to conform everything. Think about it. A long time ago in Japan, everyone had to be the same so they wouldn’t disgrace their families honor. Since the 1960s, young Japanese began turning away from tradition. Anime took a big part of expressing non-confomrity in Japan. I don’t mean to be offensive, but that’s just how corrupt the Japanese, no, the entire worlds’ different governments.

  • They’re climbing in your window, trying to snatch your people up. Trying to rape em so you gotta hide your kids, hide your wife, hide your kids, hide your wife, and hide your husband cause they’re raping everyone out there/

  • people just aaalways mess up lolicon and pedophily. pedophily is just sexual. lolicon means lolita COMPLEX. COMPLEX, means its a complex of several things, including feelings and style and all. also, a lot of people are lolicon. a way smaller percentage of people are pedophile. you can see just by lookign at thta percentages that lolicon isnt the same as pedophily. for the girls, the same applies to shotacon. actually, to everything with “con”.

  • This type of logic is like saying: Every pedophile is a children rapist
    or every fanatic FPS games are a potential serial murderers

    Every human being can be a rapist or murderer but that dont means that a simple
    fantasy work like the ero-manga can cause more or less murders or sexual crimes.

    A murderer or rapist born from different forms, like he grow environment,
    parental guidance, and his how mental health,The fantasy work is
    only a small part of that sum but is not the real detonate of his Insanity,
    The form in he grows and think is the real detonate for the murder
    and sexual crimes.

    For a normal person (in this case otakus) who likes this ero mangas
    they know that this type of actions in real life is immoral and can be penalized

        • Good definition -sarcasm-

          Here is my definition: A Normal person in
          sociology is a person who respect the social norms of his country or society a example will be: dont kill, dont steal, Etc

          so, in your definition the “anormal” person are person who dont have social life or have a weird behavior or Hobby

          my definition of “anormal” are negative acts against others humans

          however the definition of “normal” are very ambiguous so maybe my definition is wrong or your definition are wrong or both defintions are wrong

          So, i will change my word “normal” for “a person who dont hurt any one with his acts or hobby”

        • People who don’t go around shutting themselves in and fapping to 2D representations of little girls. You know, having a social life, and having healthy interactions with people in the society. Oh wait, you don’t!

  • Today I have given long thought to the ban and now i think i support, after a heated debate on it elsewhere.

    Why:

    If they were censoring Queens Blade or Samurai Girls, or any other ero series with
    mostly legal age characters i would think it’s out of place. but let’s face it mostly all anime series now days feature under age characters in not erotic, but overly erotic situations, and incest is common thing too. (anyone who thinks incest is ok just take a book on genetics and see what inbreeding can cause and you will understand why its been prohibited almost every place on earth and since the dawn of civilization, or see how most royal families turned out)
    Also let’s face it we live in a world full of losers who are potential pedos, even if japan has low rates on sex crimes the rest of the world doesn’t and to be honest
    japanese anime is seen worldwide through legal or non legal methods.
    it’s a solid fact.
    so you really want to keep feeding those potential pedos with this stuff? you really want them that horny? next target could be your cousin, sister, neighbor or even your daughter if that is the case, heck maybe even you (i know some young girls hang around here)
    so while i might enjoy ero stuff a lot, yes i love sex and sex art, i do find disturbing how more often we see underage children in adult situations in anime
    lately. last ero show aside from the 2 above i saw was toloveru, and i started watching the past season, and i did found disturbing how highly erotic was the scene with lala’s sisters, (if not down right perverted/ stuff only seen in hardcore Hentai titles like bible black) and even Mikan and Yami’s lates appearances where to my opinion too much and definitely pedo material.

    it’s sad because it affects the whole, but maybe they are to blame for abusing liberty and for their total lack of acceptance toward globalization, for good or bad it’s here like it or not.

  • I wonder how young Japanese girls view lolicons.
    Lolicons are 2D pedophiles repressing their yearn for real life children. Even one person admitted to loving naked children on this site smh.

  • They are playing their cards as we expected them to.

    I mean, does this surprise anyone? Of course the would come up with the tradmarked CP, rape and violence accusations. That’s because people are too stupid to defend themselves properly.
    Whenever there’s a censorship going around you will always hear the proponents cry “It’s for the children; It’s there to fight CP”

    Nowadays you can get awy with ANYTHING that way. Nobody dares to question the validity as long as those topics are even mentioned.

    I would say that it’s time to take things to a constitutional court. People are being treated like monstrous animals. Every year we lose more and more basic rights, while the governments aquire more and more power. Every country has increased nationalistic tendencies. Democracies are slowly dying. That’s no exaggeration. Take a look at your government and tell me that you really think they are not governing against the wishes of the people.

  • I think the argument is a bit simplified;

    Make a legal alternative illegal, people with such interests (drugs, gambling, perversions) might as well break the law and, already breaking the law go a step or so farther. It produces a sense of alienation, unfairness and glamorizes committing a crime.

    So, while by FAR not everyone who’s ever read “Lolicon” manga is a “Chester the Molester” in training, there likely are some who do use it as a “Safety valve” to prevent actually doing something in RL.

    Using the “Outrage!!!” of the few who’ve actually committed a crime, magnifying it to a great threat, those who would have with or without “Lolicon Manga” at hand is a good cheap shot for politicians in a decaying society who just want to get quick points with the public without stepping on the toes of the big business and/or criminal groups robbing society they depend on for campaign $ and any actual salary.

    If they start screaming “These big businesses are driving property through the roof and using China to cheat us of wages while they themselves demand corporate welfare…” they probably don’t even get one speech on TV and are out next election. Crime? It’s part of their society, and they don’t want to get in trouble next time they themselves go to the prostitutes/opium dens, whatever. But they do need votes and to convince big business they are worth their salt, so “Blame a despised minority” is a quick shot. Problem there is most minorities are “Protected Species” and while they do face social stigma, it’s not cool to scream “Pogrom!” and call for a head bashing now and again.

    So they go after a bunch of comic books and mock the fans, going for largely ineffective bans that get people riled up for the free speech issue.

    Right now, it won’t really hurt since the main consumers are “Adult Children” who can present ID and buy it…

    —-AGAIN, I say the publishers should just “Boycott” Tokyo, selling at the outside townships. Let all the manga fans from the Loli manga fans to the kids who want to catch up on Nauruto go on the train outside Tokyo to buy manga… Watch all the side sales of food, entertainment, clothes, electronics go with them… The big business would see a market drop in an economy that it’s deadly. They’d outright order the government to do a 180 on their position….

    BUT, back to the point I’m trying to make, if these politicians get to feel they “Won” with the current issue, they’ll press farther next year. And if fans of adult manga -even non-hentai stuff- have to resort to buying under the counter, downloading with a hidden IP and keeping things on TrueCrypt dual encrypted (1) Hard Drives well since they already will be treated like “Chester the Molester” if caught there’s little incentive NOT to go a step further, considering the law itself nothing but a contemptible lie that protects the fortunes of the elites, ignores crime and is the heel of the oppressor, the cops nothing but bandits with badges. They might as well also go on a “Sex Tour” now and again, f*cking children as well as adult women or if they have stable income perhaps buy some of the “Ruins” in a remote area (I bet the land is cheap or at least never entered as long as an absentee owner doesn’t have to pay taxes) and play “DIY Dungeon Master”. Why not drugs too, then? Why not pass stolen information, stealing some themselves? And, if the $ starts coming in, make sure to have some aside for a good lawyer and an escape route?

    I think it will indeed provoke more people who’d have never even jaywalked in their lives to commit crimes and create a bunch of real criminal/subversives.

    I’m not proposing anything new. Aside from what surfaces of life appear, this is exactly what happens when a Republic fails, right back to Rome itself.

    1 – TrueCrypt has a multi encrypt function. That way if someone puts a gun to your head literally or figuratively you can release something else. In the case of authorities demanding you incriminate yourself (and they can in Japan) one simply needs to commit ANOTHER crime where the penalty is significantly less than “Sex Criminal/Sex offender for life” pariah status. Like breaking stuff and filming it, crude vandalism. Then, if busted for the suspicion of being a “2d Pedo” after a couple hours of the police clobbering you, ‘break down’ and show what you ‘really’ did.

  • I don’t believe banning ero-manga prevents potential sex criminals. Theres many ways to be exposed to sex and ero-manga is just 1 of those ways. A person who’s never read or heard of ero-manga in their whole life could be a sex offender or criminal. if so, ero manga would not be the cause and could not be blamed for their actions.

  • Fumikane implying that thought crime is a crime prosecutable in the court of law…

    So what if rape porn freaks would actually go around raping kids if all their porn is taken away? If a drawn work of art can keep these would-be rapists off the streets, what’s bad about it? You people are saying that it’s better to rather have these rapists really bleed their fantasy into life and turn some innocent children into their victims just to prove your point?

    Most men have some experience fantasizing about rape. It’s part of sexual desires. Lynching someone for fantasizing a crime without actually doing it would mean that you will have to lynch all of humanity.

    You know why? Human beings are inherently evil.

    As we grow older, we are taught the values, parameters, and the laws along with the consequences of our actions. Failing in physically complying to these values is what separates the true criminals from other human beings. Deep down inside though, we all would commit crimes if we can get away with it. Studies conducted by psychologists from respected institutions have proven this. Google them.

    Politicians of today can’t be too stupid to not realize this. They’re rather smart, by abusing other weak aspects of the human mind to do their bidding.

    • Agreed. I’ve personally asked a lot of people if they have ever had a fantasy to of raping someone (women included) and about 2/3rds of them admit that they have.

      There is nothing wrong with the FANTASY of rape or playacting it in real life…. it’s when you actually DO RAPE that you have done something wrong, though to be blunt….. most rapes wouldn’t happen if women and men both were a little more free with their sexual favors, and pedosexuality was LEGAL.

      Seriously, about 2/3rds of ‘rapes’ in the United States are pedosexual encounters between adults and children that have NO force whatsoever in them.

  • Lets try that again

    An argument where all sides come out negative, rape OR sexual relief support item.

    Tho there’s nothing wrong with sexual relief support item but when used as if we don’t haz it you get rape makes it a double negative either way.

  • There are several different claims that needs individual studies to be proven right or wrong.
    The problem is that laws and legislations are being created on nothing more than baseless assumptions or fabricated studies.

    I think the worst of those assumptions is: “ero manga will turn normal people into pervers/criminals/deviants”.
    This point is no different than saying violent games will turn players into criminals, rock music will make people mad, etc etc.

    Another assumption is that loli or plain ero manga will attract the attention of people who already have a perverted mind or deviant. Which is reasonable, and which also doesn’t mean that ALL people reading those are criminals… much less that normal people will have their behaviour turned by it.

    And then, there’s the assumption that criminals and perverts will have their “needs” changed by the content of the material… for better or worse. Which I think is pretty reasonable to say, it can work either way.

    All in all, this is only media, politicians and protesters looking for reasons to justify their actions.

    As I see things, just like rock music, deviant literature, violence and sex in movies, novels, games, mangas, and whatever – they can all attract all sorts of reactions because we are all different and think differently.

    So, as a rule I always tend to freedom of speech and press. There are no conclusive studies about things like that because human behaviour is just complex like that.

    As most censorship actions, this is mostly people in power trying to force what they take as “decent”, “good to morals”, “sane” or whatever they think is “right” to everyone.

    If this is tasteless to me, it must be tasteless to everyone. If this offends me, it offends everyone. If I think this will make me bad, it’ll make everyone else bad.

    Wars come and go, technology in communication evolves, hundreds of years passes but we still haven’t learn to live among different people with different ideas.

  • The problem is that you cannot treat everyone equally. There’s intelligent people who would agree that this catharsis argument is as baseless as the accusation that ero manga promotes sex crimes. However, there’s also a bunch of idiots that cannot follow the most simple arguments and just focus on whatever scandalous statements you throw at them and the supposed impact on their lives.

    If you want to legitimely study the social impact of ero manga or its censorship, you should not use the catharsis argument (unless you have conducted some research and found evidence to back it up). However, if you want to prevent a ban on ero manga your best bet is to rely on the same sort of propagandistic approach used by the censorship advocates.

    Just think of the average person, who probably doesn’t care about loli manga or similar works. What do you think will be more effective in getting their support?

    a) Some people are trying to ban ero manga by arguing that it promotes sex crimes. However, there is no evidence linking the availability of such works and crime. Such unjustified censorship represents an attack on freedom of speech and must be repelled.

    b) Look at this drawings that depict a little girl being brutally raped. There are sick weirdos out there that enjoy looking at this stuff. They derive pleasure from the raping of little girls! Fortunately, this drawings are enough to satisfy them. However, some say that we should ban this kind of manga? What do you think the freaks will do if they can no longer calm their thirst for rape with drawings? Exactly! They will go after your daughter/sister!! Therefore, we must oppose the ban. The lewd drawings cause no harm by themselves, but without them our children would be in danger.

    tl;dr – Exploiting people’s fears will get you more supporters than valid arguments.

  • Something’s off: If say eromanga is banned then would that decrease sex offenders against children? Are they trying to go for that “You don’t know, you won’t do” idea?

    I think moralist are delusional:

    1. Morals are just guidelines to not having guilt. The real law here is “to not harm or inflict pain, not just to children, but to fellow men”

    2. Moralists wish for a utopia of happiness and love. As long as man has free-will, they will have desires. As long as desire exists, the need to harm others will exists(i.e. getting a job: beat all the competitors with your charm and qualifications, you have a job, they will go jobless, dissapointed and hungry). As long as one hurts another, one will strike back. This has been the law for eons and the only way for that utopia to exists is to…. destroy the human race. That, or remove man’s free will.

    3. Moralist are a bunch of people who believe in God and that he will intervene to those who believe. I say to you now that you are taking a test called “life” and that God is the proctor. NO CHEATING! NO HELPING OR ASKING THE PROCTOR EITHER!

    I do hope that somebody who is a moralist might read this and answer back. I got plenty of proof to show him that PERFECTION = THE END…. And I don’t want to end the exams just yet!

    • I consider myself somewhat like a “libertarian moralist”, so I’ll take a chance at answering your post.

      1. Morals are nothing more than necessarily subjective definitions of good behavior.
      The only “objective good (non-)behavior”—as far as the definition of “morals” as a social construct with the objective of coordinating behavior towards the well-being of humanity goes—is to let everyone do whatever they want, as long as the consequences of their actions, if done by everyone under the same circumstances, don’t prevent people from doing whatever they want or result in some other contradiction. In other words: “freedom”.

      2. The question of “free will” is much more complex than that. As an exercise, try thinking about the things you are already not doing because they do not (or can not) occur to you. Do you understand what I’m getting to? Free will can’t be proved by us (and thus, all arguments relying on its existence are also unprovable).
      Besides, in an ideal society, the need to harm others wouldn’t exist. For example, it wouldn’t be capitalistic and resources for living would be abundant (post-scarcity).

      3. There is no need to believe in anything beyond reality to be a “moralist”. Not everyone believes morals to be universal (meta-ethical relativism).

  • hmm i always had a different theory, that the disturing nature of some loli rape hentai would cause people to understand teh ugly nature of rape, and due to some sort of conscience, it would prevent them from commiting rape crimes in the future, due to understanding the full extent of rape shown in hentai. Now that i think about it, it might be too weird of a theory

  • Shimada’s response is flawed. The “catharsis” argument does not require that all consumers be potential rapists, only that some portion of them be, and in any sufficiently large sample you are going to find potential rapists.

    Ultimately, both the “causes” and the “catharsis” arguments are true. The question is whether the number of rapists created by “causes” is greater than or less than the number of rapists prevented by “catharsis”. This quantity is impossible to calculate.

    Ultimately ultimately, this is why you don’t base fundamental rights (freedom of thought) on utilitarian arguments, which both the “causes” and the “catharsis” arguments are… Because then you end up basing your fundamental rights on mathematical equations which cannot be known or proven in any way, and usually boil down to nothing more than tools to shovel more power toward the powerful. (See also the Utility Monster.)

  • I really can’t see 2D pictures deterring someone that both lusts after little girl flesh and is capable of hurting children. I haven’t looked into the matter, though, so I’m pretty much just talking out of my butt.

  • I don’t really care why something reduces sex crimes as long as it actually does so. I just wish politicians the world over would actually base their decisions on solid evidence instead of just trusting their own ill-reasoned biases and wishful thinking. They seem to think they can come up with a solution to these problems on their own, and don’t need any input from citizens, actual experts in the field or scientists. I don’t know what the correct term is for government by pig-headed anti-intellectuals, but it’s certainly not democracy.

  • Amazing lack of understanding of why people commit a sex crime.
    It requires three things:
    1) the desire to commit an illegal act
    2) that you are a sociopath, you won’t feel guilty
    3) you are not afraid of the consequences

    Most people fail 2)&3). Whatever they want to do they can’t do it because they will feel guilty and also don’t want to get in trouble.

    Porn removes the need for 1) in most cases since you just need to satisfy yourself and then you don’t need to do something nasty to a real person.

    If porn is not available then only 2&3 protect people

    The moralfags think that no porn means no desire to commit an act which is nonsense. So people who don’t see porn don’t have sexual feelings. Rubbish.

      • what is a sex crime, and what is a criminal because you made it illegal.

        lets take a hard rape, its because of control, not just the want to fuck 99.9% of the time.

        at statutory thing shouldn’t even be a crime.

        the guy is wrong, dont get me wrong, but your way of proving him wrong was also bad.

    • personally i’m capable of 2 and 3, granted i dont desire to do something illegal, but the fact something is wont stop me if i want to.

      however i work more under a system of checks and balances. as in, an old woman with a purse, i can easily take it, but the risk reward is the question. do i want to risk prision for what is most likely less than 300$, no. but if i was guaranteed to get away, there is a good chance i would, i would take the money, and anything of significantly value that isn’t sentimental (people tend to want to track that shit down more than anything else) and deliver the purse to a cop car, after a change of close, saying i found it.

      • I’m kind of the same way to be honest. The only thing that stops me from doing anything rather rash is number 3, and that’s only limited to stuff that I’d most likely get caught doing. As for number 2, I never understood why people even feel guilty over most things, it kinda goes against human’s animalistic nature to survive if everything thing you do makes you feel bad.

  • Everyone here at least like “2D” Lolis and some that come here to troll, I’m half and half I like 2D Lolis but at the same time I don’t want them overdoing too much Lolis but its doubtful about the “overdoing too much” part. Anyways finally someone else in the manga business is making a stand against the ban more ero-mangakas/mangakas should start joining in against this pathetic excuse for a ban. Crime is the lowest in Japan but that doesn’t include Otakus and Lolis(or any other girls) why?????? Otakus never go out of there rooms…don’t mix it with Hikkimoris

  • Is it wrong to be deviant? Hell, with how messed up is our general society is at large, [i]is[/i] it “wrong” to [i]be[/i] deviant? Many great minds are in fact born because of their deviance towards the dulled puppets that are “normal” people.

    • Don’t try to justify your sickness by saying you’re “special”. The difference between you and those we call visionaries is that they contribute a lot to humanity. What have you done lately, aside from fapping to your sad 2D lolis?

        • @anon 11:09
          Haha, well of course I can’t prove that I am a ‘productive’ member of society, you also don’t have to believe me, I know this is the internet after all, blahblah…
          If you don’t want to believe me and keep thinking that every anime/manga fan coming here has to be a freaky, unemployed shut-in licking his screen to loli pics, it’s your problem, really?

          …But then again you’ll probably still be going on and on about how all of us here are evil degenerates, and mommy said not to feed the trolls, so I’m gonna back off now.

        • @anon 06:41

          Yeah right. It’s easy for anyone to say that they’re productive. Yet there are numerous articles that show just how much otakus can be freaks. The comments on this site themselves shows as much. Proof that shows otherwise or you’re just blowing smoke outta your ass.

  • lets see here.

    retard pro censor “it will decrease crime rates”

    nothing you can say will stop this fuck, and because its easy to understand, at least easier than “There’s no data to support that hypothesis and no scientific basis to think that it would increase sex crimes.” no amount of rationality will get through to them or the people they have listen to them.

    HOWEVER give them the counter point, “Ban it and you’ll cause more rapes!” by saying that its holding back real criminals, and you will at the very least cu away at the people who listen to them, there will be people who are anti censorship who would rather see censorship because they believe that it prevents rape now.

      • you have to think like someone whose religious to kind of understand this. They live in a world of absolutes where nothing can’t be unknown, such as because there is porn , there are perverts.

        A lot of people live their lives in that same understanding that because there is something there is something.

        People don’t understand just because there is something doesn’t necessarily mean something else exists.

        However with the argument that you are a sex criminal, who’s only been held back by the factor is porn, the people who are like those religious zealots who only think the world is black-and-white, you erode from the people who want to ban it to people who can tolerate it.

        In all honesty it’s the lesser of two evils, because there will always be people who think just because there is porn that they have to be sex criminals, and sadly that’s where a lot of people end up because they want to believe that if there wasn’t porn no one would want to do that. However if you bring in the concept that because there is porn there is less, but now always take away from the people who are in the black-and-white camp and moved them over to a more gray area camp.

  • In every society, in every group of people, there’s always someone who may be a sex criminal. Not all of them but definitely some of them. By giving them a substitute for the real thing, they may not commit any crime at all.

    However, the risk of increase of sexual criminality is just one of many things coming with banning ero anime and manga and using it as an argument is just one of many ways how people try to defend things they care for.

    What I see as a bigger problem is that those preferring the ban are violating democracy and the freedom of expression and that they simply want to take away something that many people love with no rational reason. That’s why people try to defend themselves in many ways – using “sex crimes” as an argument is just one of them.

    How can’t they see this?

    However, Fumikane has a point.

    • I totally agree with you, I don’t support sex crimes (and who does?), but I do support freedom of expression!! freedom to the manga!!! we all have the right to write, draw and read whatever we want!!!

      just, please, people… if you care that much about the ban, don’t throw off such idiotic explanations like the Catharsis theory, think a little more with your brains instead of your livers, thank you

    • No, No, No,. Don’t you get it. Is a stupid way of defense, saying rapes will increase is giving more weapons to your opponents than harm them.
      Is like you are admitting there is a connection between rapist and manga/anime and that watching those things means you are a sick fuck and they are not just fantasy that’s unrelated to real crimes. It’s equaling a crime in 2D as a real crime. Is like saying liking a loli or a rape manga means you like the same things in real life too.
      ONLY MAJOR IDIOTS would use such a stupid argument.

      What you have to ab-hold is that this things are completely fantasy with no relation to real life whatsoever and banning or censoring them is nothing more than a crime against freedom of expression since this kind of things harm no one and they are nothing but entrainment for NORMAL people that have a right to fantasy and art.

      If you guys were lawyers you would have given the prosecutor all the ammunition to nail your ass. Think like lawyers people.

      • Man, you’re a moron.

        No one would ever argue that alcohol is increasing the rate of crimes. Still it is not forbidden, for it is socially accepted.

        This alone is more than enough to back up Rena.
        If you would ban lolicon (which is not even proved, to harm a mind as with video games) than YOU HAVE to bann alcohol as well if you use logic.

        But alcohol has earned a place where not even people who get harmed by a drunk person would want to bann it.

        • You are the moron. Just because alcohol is accepted don’t assume your anime will. Alcohol has a lot more and stronger supporters anyway.
          “YOU HAVE” to ban alcohol too my ass. From when did society acted justifiably and treated everyone equally? They don’t “HAVE” to do anything. They can ban your manga/anime and still drink all they like no matter how pretentious it is because they don’t give a shit if it looks unfair to you.

          Rena or anyone else shouldn’t even use that argument because it harms anime manga fans. What am trying to say is that you MUST try and avoid mentioning such argument. What Rena does wrong is not trying to avoid even implying the specific argument. That argument shouldn’t even be slightly touched because it’s poison. From the moment you somehow refer to it even not using it as fact then you are giving ideas to nail you with.
          That argument is like holding a gun in a crowed place. Even if the gun is without bullets and you have no intention of shooting, you shouldn’t hold the fucking gun in frond of them. You will cause panic anyway.

          BTW, please everyone cut the lolicon staff already. Lolis, lois lolis. Don’t you people realize that you are talking about general things in manga that are not prudent or legal? IS NOT just about lolis. That’s what this ban was about.

      • I didn’t say anything about anime and manga being connected with sex crimes. I just said it’s one of the arguments people use and that there may be a risk of increase of sex criminality if you take someone’s porn away. However, I didn’t say it will happen.

        The first paragraph I wrote could refer to anything. 2D or 3D porn. Otaku or any other group of people.

        Of course, it’s naive to think that once 2D porn is banned, all otaku will go and rape the first kid/woman/whatever they’ll meet.

        I’m not the one who can’t tell a difference between fantasy and reality. But seems to me like lot of pro-ban people are.

        However, I also think that the freedom of expression and democracy is probably the strongest argument.

        [However, I don’t want to be (like) a lawyer, I’m just expressing my opinions.]

  • This article proves that paranoia runs societies these days. Everyone is quick to think the worse when something gets banned or legalized. Take this Youth Bill for example or the ongoing battle to legalize pot. All people can think of is the worst case scenarios.

  • Fumikane Shimada is right.

    By saying that ero loli content is all that is stopping rapes assumes already the worst from it’s demographic. Once an association is made it’s already a uphill if not un-winnable battle.

    The best way to combat any type of creative censorship is just that, approach it as an expression of creative freedom.

    Unfortunately in the case of Japan, this has hardly been working favorably as seen in the recent bans on anime, manga and games in Tokyo/japan…

    • I’ve always doubted that claim to be honest. Drawings represent real people, conceptually. To deny that is to argue that it’s just a bunch of lines and colors, and we know our brains work harder than that.

      I can totally understand the argument that real kids are not sexy… that’s not hard to confirm. I find it hard to believe that someone could be attracted to the bodies of 2D adults, 3D adults, 2D children, but not 3D children though. That just reeks of self-denial to me – unless they’re overwhelmed with concern for the kids’ wellbeing and can’t enjoy it. That also makes sense, but sounds like a separate issue.

    • Why would you say you’re not interested in girls under 18 ? Such a random number ?
      It is just because of the age of consent in your country probably.

      Do you REALLY believe in a magical line between 17 and 18 ?
      For you are american, you probably do; so that was more of a rethorical question <.<

      Im so glad i don't have to live in a country full of morons like yours.

      • Tell me about it this place is so depraved of loli anime cause of the “moralfags”. Damn it I mean we had Kodomo No Jikan licensed for release until some corny whore started to bite down on the licensing company (Seven Seas Entertainment), and of course they dropped it. Makes me want to live in Rapture, Bioshock. 🙂

    • You’re not, Lolis rule, and I have no attraction to any 3D loli, my morality will kill me XP.
      Besides no 3D loli can match the cute/moeness that a 2D Loli give us, and damn it I hate this stereotype against Loli-lovers. They put us all in the same group with those who may fall to that side.

      oh and loli-Haruhi was cute X3

  • People are using the argument because studies have indicated it is true (although you could dispute whether those studies are reliable enough): http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/1961to1999/1999-effects-of-pornography.html
    >The concern that countries allowing pornography and liberal anti-obscenity laws would show increased sex crime rates due to modeling or that children or adolescents in particular would be negatively vulnerable to and receptive to such models or that society would be otherwise adversely effected is not supported by evidence. It is certainly clear from the data reviewed, and the new data and analysis presented, that a massive increase in available pornography in Japan, the United States and elsewhere has been correlated with a dramatic DECREASE in sexual crimes and most so among youngsters as perpetrators or victims.

    You can debate if the basis for the argument is any good, but to say it is without basis is a blatant lie.

    • All this data is proving is that pornography of any kind does not have any negative effects on sex crimes (or at least not enough to offset society’s advancements in other areas) – which has pretty much been the core of intelligent anti-censorship arguments for decades. It does in no way lend basis to the thought that the opposite (less porn -> more sex crimes) is true also.

  • The simple fact is that 2D loli are more appealing. I don’t mind a nice 3D girl (over the age of 18 of course) now and then, but as far as under that goes, the lolis just look nicer, and there’s a lot less baggage to fapping over a picture of Sakura and Tomoyo than two actual ten year olds.

    Just because I sometimes enjoy loli/shota content in anime and hentai doesn’t mean I have any interest in going out and finding real life examples. Real life ten year old girls just aren’t that good looking.

    • You’d be surprised how low crime rates can get when cops don’t record everything they receive reports of… Not that that means they are anywhere near what would be considered high in most areas.

        • Long comment is very long. I do agree with most of what you said especially the fact that ero-manga and rape aren’t really connected. That should be obvious but, whats obvious to the normal citizens is a politician/censorship groups favorite thing to pervert into some strange pretzel shaped mass of confusion.

        • You know, I just thought of something. Why DO we use the catharsis argument? Seriously,it demonizes the very thing it tries to protect, especially since; as this above argument alone shows, there is a relatively obvious argument with a far more positive reasoning. Most People who look at Ero-manga are just NOT DANGEROUS. Think about it; If the Catharsis argument were true, then we would have a terribly violent and gore happy society, because just think of all the violence displayed on TV. Catharsis might cool down ones willingness to commit atrocities, but it doesn’t mean that a person wouldn’t be just as vocal about the subject they are love. Just looking at the sales of the SAW movies, every teen would be a Sadistic serial killer. It’s not that ero-manga is keeping the rapists at bay, it’s that PEOPLE ARE NORMALLY SMART ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO DIFFERENTIATE FANTASY AND REALITY. ERO-MANGA SHOULDN’T BE BANNED NOT BECAUSE IT HELPS PREVENT SEX CRIMES, BUT BECAUSE IT HAS NO CONNECTION TO THEM. The people who seem to turn “violent” are those who were going to cause problems to begin with, like the people who speed despite road signs, and the art shouldn’t be blamed, in the same way you wouldn’t ban all brands of cereal a serial killer consumed, because it has little to nothing to do with WHY they committed the crimes.

        • I have, and the closest thing I ever saw to “violent crime” was some guy leaving his trash in the basket of a bicycle…
          That’s not to say it doesn’t happen, people sacrifice body parts to yakuza bosses, but on the whole in public? Not in Tokyo proper (to my experience, at least).

      • Any correlation can be found if one seeks it. That’s not even wisdom, it’s simply that you can find do-loop logic all throughout anything that is emotion-based at the base functionality of humanity. I consider myself a lolicon because if you consider it consciously, lolicon manga is a play on all aspects of sexuality.

        The artist sexualizes the bodies most of the time (even when they don’t they still exaggerate), inserting sleek hourglass forms and mature perceptions into the younger characters, and younger people don’t usually have understanding about those situations, meanwhile these characters do. It becomes a game, a play on human sexuality, and most of the loli manga have that type of ‘humour,’ even in what would normally be considered rape scenarios. And of course there are those that simply involve sexualized bodies in much more dominated and sometimes even brutal situations with less of an overall humour to them, and yet the humour isn’t in specific loli manga, it’s in the idea. The very concept of a little girl coming on to someone in a forceful way is actually absurd, even if it does happen in real life, it all exists in the presence of absurdity.

        In fact it could very easily be correlated that loli manga is a sexual parody, regardless of its lighthearted or dramatic nature. Even if there are those who treat it too seriously and is all they look at and see nothing else, they still exist in a fantasy realm, a falsified parody that is at a constantly heightened level of humour.

        And as always, some of those may reach a point where they wish to test the boundaries of reality and fantasy, like so many children have done before them when they jump off a slide and think they can fly. Those people merely lacked lessons early in life, and they will feel the consequences.

  • Bah, they are gonna screw you no matter what, might as well play the numbers game.

    Ok so this Loli manga is keeping us from raping children… all 200k of us *grin*.

    You can also take the therapeutic angle.

    Find some sacrificial lambs (keep their loli loving ways hidden) to go around raping children then use loli manga to “settle them down”.

    Instant “I need it for the pain” type excuse.

  • This is going to affect the sex crime rate if readers continued to buy manga that doesn’t contain sex. The problem is, since the Tokyo Youth Bill was affected, there will be less ero-manga and more manga that contains violence that won’t sell to older teenagers anymore since it’s 18+ now, and the population will decrease depending on the rate.

    The MAIN problem is that the economy in Tokyo will also get affected as well, and I had a fear that Tokyo will have financial trouble, like United States back in 2008.