Fansubbers: “We Support Anime” 2ch: “You Are Thieves!”

creepy-otaku-at-anime-expo-2010

2ch’s reaction to fansubbers who excuse their illegal acts by saying they are “supporting the anime industry” and blame the situation on the industry for not providing anime quickly enough is to denounce them for their brazen hypocrisy.

A Japanese journalist attending Anime Expo 2010, held in Los Angeles, had the misfortune to meet a group of fansubbers at the event and writes about the encounter for Nikkei:

I approached a pair of well known LA-based fansubbers at the event.

They explained some of their reasoning:

“We don’t like having to wait to get our anime, and the companies here won’t do it quickly enough. But we can do it.

By providing anime with no time lag, we’re supporting the American anime market. Even if it is illegal.

The current state of the American anime market is definitely not good for anime consumers. The companies won’t change it, so we do it for them.”

After speaking with the fansubbers, I spoke to a Japanese researcher with the Harvard Business School, who was accompanying me. What he murmured to me left an impression:

“Those kids were cheeky, weren’t they?”

He was smiling as he said it, but his eyes weren’t smiling…

As I explained previously, “fansubs” are the main way of viewing anime in America. From a purely legal perspective, fansubbing is nothing more than another way of saying piracy.

Many have said that fansubs are behind much of the sudden collapse of the American anime market. Naturally many copyright holders want a crackdown.

It’s often said that fansubbers just do it for love of anime or because they want to promote anime. Opinion tends to be divided as to whether that is the case, or whether they are simple hypocrites making excuses for themselves.

However, it is clear that they do not think adequate access to anime is being provided by the industry.

He goes on to describe some of the grey areas fansubbing encompasses, where anime producers historically provided only illegal, inferior or impractical access to their products overseas, with the result that consumers took matters into their own hands in what he regards as a very American display of initiative.

After being presented with the article, 2ch is less than convinced by their excuses:

“Just a bunch of pirates trying to justify their crimes.”

“Summary: ‘We’re not thieves. We just like anime. We won’t watch it if we have to pay.'”

“Sounds like something some idiots would say in order to rationalise what they’re doing. I hope these morons get arrested, especially in Japan.”

“Pirate logic is the same the world over.”

“They pretend to be gods by freely watching and redistributing the anime Japanese actually buy and support…”

“If Japan treated Disney cartoons and Hollywood movies like they treated our anime, the US government would go ballistic!”

“What are they on about? ‘The American anime market,’ ‘American anime consumers’ – when they just illegally pirate everything, is there a ‘market’? Are they ‘consumers’?”

“With YouTube and similar, Japanese anime sales overseas have dropped off and it’s barely commerically viable anymore.”

“They should really crack down on these people like Disney does. Why on earth don’t they?”

“It’s also true that without fansubs anime wouldn’t have spread overseas like it did. And there are a lot of people like this in Japan itself.”

“The translation abilities of fansubbers are so pitiful it’s a wonder anyone thinks they can form a valid opinion of an anime by watching them.”

“Even in Japan there are scumbags who sub western films and then upload them, and get treated like gods for doing it.”

“They refuse to learn Japanese – just look at all the Japanese who learn English to watch their films. What spoilt brats.”

“Some of these guys also claim to be doing it to advertise the anime in question.”

“Just cracking down may not increase their revenues in any case. Perhaps they should loosen their grip and let even more people see them.”

“So you’re an anime producer, are you?”

“What are you, deluded?”

“This is just what you’d expect of people who are satisfied with the video quality you get with fansubs.”

“Having these people watch our anime might encourage more censorship. It would be best if they didn’t watch them.”

“It’s the industry’s own fault. They should have a Disney-style copyright protection effort.”

“What really pisses me off is when weekly manga are scanned and translated even before you can buy it in the shops here.”

“Japanese regional anime otaku: ‘The regional stations are to blame for not broadcasting any anime! We have to use video sharing sites, it’s our last resort!’

Me: ‘What about ATX?’ [a premium anime channel available nation-wide]

Natives: ‘…'”

“Take a leaf out of my book you hairy foreigners! I waited for the Japanese release of ‘Transformers’ without watching it illegally, I went to the US to buy goods despite not speaking a lick of English, I attended the events and bought stuff! Those people have no right to say they love anime.”

“Leaving aside the matter of overseas otaku, I just want to say to them to stop circulating anime online before you can even buy or watch it in Kanto…”

“What a bunch of asses. Download all the doujinshi you want, but leave stuff by pros alone.”

“I can’t say what these people are doing is justified, but I do think the producers who ignore the demand here have really wasted an opportunity.”

“Just buy the DVDs! Otherwise wait! Or else make something yourself, if you can…”

“They think they are entitled to watch it all for free now, so they won’t buy anything. Do they think this stuff is produced by some sort of natural process!?”

“Well, it’s sad but most of them just don’t want to watch the anime enough to actually pay for it to be made.”

“Even without having a fee system, they can still make something by advertising on the videos, can’t they? It’s not a huge effort for the producers to sub and provide official versions of their anime with minimal lag. It’s better than just having everyone watch them for nothing.”

“I think some companies already went bust trying that.”

“As things are now the Americans probably don’t want to buy much advertising.”

“Those Americans won’t buy anything. It doesn’t matter how many fans there are.

Look at the prices on the NA editions! It’s that cheap and they still won’t buy it!? It’d be a bargain sale price in Japan.”

“I get the feeling that it is just us who are paying a lot more.”

“2 episodes for $70 is Japan only, yes.”

“The director of Code Geass said in an interview that at US prices 70% of anime titles released in Japan would lose money.

Just because you sell at a very low price doesn’t mean your sales will necessarily increase a huge amount.

There simply are not many otaku to sell to in any case. Hollywood films just sell to millions of people so they can spread the cost over them all like that.

Even at ¥980, this season’s crop of moe anime would never sell 100,000 copies. US prices for anime are from half to a tenth of what we pay – but the market is still collapsing.”

“If you don’t broadcast and release DVDs simultaneously in all countries, your sales will continue to decrease. In a world connected by the Internet, popularity arises simultaneously, globally.

If you try to force people to wait a year for something to be localised, it will long since have fallen from popularity by then.”

“So far they have been saying this:

‘Japanese must distribute anime freely at the same time as it airs in Japan – if they don’t, fansubbing will continue forever.’

So some Japanese makers tried to accommodate them even with their meagre budgets.

They distributed the Tower of Druaga free on YouTube.

What happened? The fansubbers ripped off the subs and began distributing their own version in higher resolution.

Ore no Imouto was also being simulcast in the US.

What happened? The show was leaked online before it even aired, and then redistributed and they hastily cancelled the whole thing.

They try to make out as if they are benevolent volunteers. But really their morals are completely absent.”

“And they do make money from this in spite of it being a ‘volunteer effort.’ They are happy to accept donations – it doesn’t matter how hard the creators work on it, the praise and the money ends up with them in the end.

And let’s not forget a certain site which targeted Japanese anime, pirated them and distributed them online for free, then became a multimillion dollar enterprise – Crunchy Roll, started by a Chinese-American.”

“What the idyllic legend of fansubbers starting an overseas market for anime refers to is a bunch of students handing around translated VHS tapes and showing them at their universities.

But that has nothing to do with the situation now, where ‘anime = download for free’ and the market is collapsing.”

“In a little while this thread will be translated and made into an article on some foreign site, and they’ll leave out the inconvenient stuff above and just start a huge flamefest.”

Leave a Comment

670 Comments

      • Well they pay for the channel so it’s not technically “free” but if they had a channel that showed ALL of the new season anime here and not just 1 show followed by a bunch of 10 year old shit I would pay for the channel and watch it there.

        As it stands I’ll continue to support fansubbers.

        • JAPAN:
          – Recent anime are available on TV. You pay to access the TV channels.
          – You can record what’s on TV with good quality to rewatch later, as many times as you want. No denying that people do this.
          – You’re SURE that the episodes will be broadcasted (unless there’s another “Nice Boat”).
          – Want to support the series? Buy the DVDs when they’re released, ditch the recorded TV episodes.

          REST OF THE WORLD:
          – Recent anime are not available on TV. You pay to access the internet.
          – You can download what’s available on torrents with lesser quality to rewatch later, as many times as you want. No denying that people do this.
          – You’re NOT SURE that the episodes will be made available, since the people making the episodes available are NOT pros.
          – Want to support the series? Buy the DVDs when (and IF) they’re released in your country, ditch the downloaded TV episodes.

          Now what, Japan?

        • Correction:

          REST OF THE WORLD:

          -Recent anime are not availabe on TV <— due to less faith in the commercial viability of TV anime.
          – You can download what's available on torrents with lesser quality to rewatch later, as many times as you want. No denying that people do this.- Free widely available product lessens it's commercial viabiltiy.
          – You're NOT SURE that the episodes will be made available, since the people making the episodes available are NOT pros. <— No clue what this means.
          – Want to support the series? Buy the DVDs when (and IF) they're released in your country, ditch the downloaded TV episodes.<— If a lot more people were actually doing this, no one would be complaining…and it might not be available in your country unless it's ultra-popular because noone supports the otaku stuff when they are…

          Now what, Anon?

        • @Firetribe

          Availability of digital products does not necessarily correlate to commercial viability. Perhaps even rarely does. Its all about access and quality.

          See mp3s vs itunes. All music is pretty much instantly available for free (piracy) on the internet… and yet itunes does pretty good business.

          Even if people wanted to buy the DVDs, they would have to exist first. Most of the time, the DVDs don’t exist locally for years… at which time they are probably not wanted anymore. And to be honest, no one wants to buy DVDs where the quality of the content is shit.

          Now what?

        • even though shows we watch on tv is free, theres not many channels broadcasting anime at all. if we were hellbent on looking for one, we would end up having to pay for cable. even with that, theres only sci-fi..sometimes, some asian popstar channel, adult swim and….thats all i know. we have no choice but to resort to fansubs whether they like it or not.

          also theres a crapload of mecha anime, that still hasnt been released over here yet. im still waiting for zz gundam and victory gundam.

          anime dvds only sell 3 episodes per disc -_-. support, my ass

        • I don’t buy any DVDs, not for movies, not for english shows, and even if all anime were available on dvd where I live I wouldn’t buy those either. DVDs are just simply worthless in my opinion, there is clearly enough commercial value in TV anime. If Fansubbers do it for free for this big of an audience just have a company buy out all fansubbing groups and put them to work on the same anime they would be doing normally but for television broadcast instead of internet. If you can stop the fansubbers by making them professionals then you solve the piracy problem.

          Also “- You’re NOT SURE that the episodes will be made available, since the people making the episodes available are NOT pros. <— No clue what this means." He meant you are never sure if the anime you think looks interesting this season will even be subbed since the groups just do whatever anime they like and it's not some regulated process.

      • I was stationed in Okinawa (territory of Japan) for 3 years recently and they actually don’t get many free channels. It’s like here in that there are different tiers of channels depending on how much you are willing to spend.

      • “It’s also true that without fansubs anime wouldn’t have spread overseas like it did. And there are a lot of people like this in Japan itself.”

        At least some have not forgotten this. In truth though they’ve missed the point that they get to view anime on tv at no cost to themselves, which is what everyone else wants (though it’s not very likely at all), thus fansubs will indeed continue (most likely forever).

        No one likes being forced to pay for something, that someone else gets for “free” after all (OAVs and movies being the exception to that).

        • I agree with this. Now here’s my little dollar (since it’s far more than 2 cents) and hopefully it doesn’t turn into a full blown essay. XD

          The problem with most fansubbers is the fact that they often forget the main purpose of fansubbing. It’s to provide something that’s not readily available to viewers. That doesn’t just stop in America though and that’s what may other anti-fansubbing people don’t understand. If it were available in more countries the download numbers would be even lower for most fansub sites. I’ll admit that there are many viewers out there who’ll just download and that’ll be the end of it, but how is that person’s actions the fault of fansubbers? Fansubbers as persecuted mainly for providing the material without most people even considering the fact that many fansubbers support the industry themselves. I’m not just talking about by subbing anime. I’m talking about actually buying products from locally available conventions and online from Japan, yet, they’re being crucified for “killing the industry.”

          That is bullshit. Most Americans don’t even download anime anymore. They stream subbed anime on various sites. I can pretty much guarantee you that fansubbers don’t want their work to end up on streaming sites, yet they end up there anyway due to irresponsible users. Can the fansubbers do anything about it? Of course not. They don’t own any of the intellectual property beside the translations themselves. Fansubbers don’t usually say “hey watch our anime,” they generally say “watch our subs.” The groups know they don’t own the title and they know that what they’re doing is illegal. Just remember folks, just like in the prohibition, when the product isn’t readily available and demand is there a black market comes up for it.

          On another note, it’s pretty funny how most fansubbers make excuses for what they do. They try to justify their illegal activities with countless used and abused reasoning that has long since been disproved. Most of them just don’t want to admit that they love the attention that comes with being fansubbers. Most of them would object to that statement, but deep down they know it’s true. Human nature generally dictates that people loved to be praised in some form or fashion and fansubbing is no different.

          Now everyone knows that the current system of distributing anime and manga overseas are very outdated. The problem is there’s not really an easy, cheap, or quick fix for this. Buying out fansubbing groups sounds good in theory, but many fansubing groups are comprised of people from different countries. How the hell are they going to keep budget while bringing all of these people in one place to make a living? It’s not going to happen. Release things online? Companies are trying that and it’s been hit and miss ever since. Some series are done well and fans love it, while other series are done so poorly that people want to gouge their eyes out.

          Is there a right and a wrong here? Definitely. Most people in America itself look for speed and convenience in everything just like the rest of the world. It’s the reason why fast food restaurants are so popular and why mp3’s have replaced tapes and CDs. Japan is no different as far as fansubbing is concerned. They have their own fansubbers subbing western media and pirating it over there. People here don’t give a damn about it because it would be the pot calling the proverbial kettle black. However these elitists who can afford their passions by sacrificing many things apparently feel they’re above everyone who simply isn’t able or really just doesn’t want to do what they do.

          To those who actually record broadcasts to keep for themselves without a thought of distributing it… that’s also a crime you know? Technically it’s a crime to record a broadcast without a license to do so. Do people generally get arrested for it? Not really. People who are caught redistributing it for profit are generally the ones that are arrested. This goes back to the fact that there are many things that are tolerated by the laws in every country. Just like how marijuana in Amsterdam is not legal prior to popular belief, but it is tolerated in certain areas by the police force.

          As far as the whole quality issue goes, the jury is still out on that one. I’ve seen spectacular and horrible official subs and dubs and I’ve also seen spectacular and horrible fansubs and fandubs (yes fansubs do exist). It’s all a matter of opinion and mine is that you have to take everything with a grain of salt. Official dub companies’ scripts are decent, but many of their voice actors are assigned rolls that don’t really fit their voices. This goes back to their budgets (there’s a good interview about that on ANN) and really not hiring too many VA’s without experience. They’re not willing to gamble their already tight budgets on someone who hasn’t been “battle-tested.” If I were them, I wouldn’t either, but this explains why many dubs sound a bit off compared to their Japanese counterparts.

          Fan distributed services and big companies have different motivation for what they do. The former is in it because they usually enjoy what they do and just feel like doing it, and the latter does it for profit. One general rule of business is that the cheaper you produce the more profit to be made in the end. There are too many grey areas on both sides of the coin to have a clear cut view on the industry besides the “he-say she-say” bullshit. Neither job is easy and the only thing that’s generally the same in my opinion is that both are generally unrewarding because of the anti factions on both ends.

          Damn, this really did turn into a mini essay. Damn you college look what you did to me!!!

        • Anon @ 08:44:

          “To those who actually record broadcasts to keep for themselves without a thought of distributing it… that’s also a crime you know? Technically it’s a crime to record a broadcast without a license to do so.”

          Actually, if their DVR/recording equipment is anything like ours, then they technically have a license to record it.

          For example: Most US Satellite companies (Dish Network, DirecTV, etc.) have a $5.00 monthly fee for simply -having- the DVR unit in your home. There’s no other explanation for this fee. The only thing I’ve managed to research, with any solid facts or evidence, is that this fee is simply to pay for the royalties and licensing that allow a given subscriber to record a given show on their networks.

      • Last time I was in Japan TV is not free. You pay a monthly bill, if I remember right you actually get the bill whether you watch it or not (just by owning one) and they will push hard to make sure it is paid. It is not free by any means but still much cheaper than buying on disc.

        I would not count that as piracy though

        • The amount of ignorance in those comments is staggering. I absolutely do not see any difference in downloading a fansub and watching+recording the anime as it’s being broadcasted. Either way you end up with high-quality digital copy with the logo of the TV station somewhere in the corner, and if you like the show enough you buy the DVDs once they’re out. If there is a flaw in my logic, please point it out to me.

          I won’t even bother trying to sum up the ridiculously huge amount of ¥ I spent on importing figures/dakimakura/other merchandise of shows that haven’t even been licensed here and don’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell to ever be…

        • If they pirated our cartoons, I’m pretty sure none of us would give a shit in the slightest.

          Besides, they act like people don’t record stuff and watch it over and over in their own spare time. Why is fansubbing so different? They just hate foreigners, honestly…

        • not on all countries you pay for tv, here tv is free aswell, and here only really famous anime are shown, like naruto… and it’s delayed like 300 episodes…

          there’s no anime market here, and i’m not going to sell an arm just to import a couple of them, so yeah, you can call it piracy all you want, until i don’t get a viable legal way of getting the anime i want i’ll downloaded it…

          sure, just keep blaming the fansubbers of stealing their money, while i’ll keep blaming their strategy of selling overseas with their stupid dubs and crappy qualities… you know, the ones that i can’t buy -_-

        • 1. 90% of the time, official subs are worse than fansubs
          2. Anime DVDs and especially BDs are ridiculously expensive (I would pay 60€ for a 24-ep series, not for 1/6th of it)
          3. Even if you do buy a DVD or BD the foreign (in practice, US) publishers waste their profits on making horrible dubs.
          4. Around where I live, it is a wonder to even find any anime DVDs or BDs.
          Thus I watch fansubs.

        • Marine-RX179 says:

          Dumb 2ch-ers. Anime producers hardly make much money on anime being broadcasted on TV…they make money on the “anime related goods” (and DVD/BD is just part of it), which we do open up our wallet again and again to buy.

          And what’s with their logic anyway? It’s not like they are buying every DVD/BD of shows they’ve seen on TV themselves. I’d love to see how they would react if their TV station stop broadcasting anime altogether, and the only mean of them to watch anime is to buy the DVD/BD, or go “pirate” themselves…love to see if they can still act so high and mighty about it. This pretty much sums it up:

          “Japanese regional anime otaku: ‘The regional stations are to blame for not broadcasting any anime! We have to use video sharing sites, it’s our last resort!’

          Me: ‘What about ATX?’ [a premium anime channel available nation-wide]

          Natives: ‘…’”

        • Yoshii-kun -“Pirates pointing at pirates = Priceless.”

          Pretty much the discussion was settled at Silver Wolf Vaden comment on top of this page, but this one was stronger.

          Hypocrisy, oh, how I love this drama.

        • “They refuse to learn Japanese – just look at all the Japanese who learn English to watch their films. What spoilt brats.”

          Ahahaha, foul argument. “all the Japanese” is really the minority. Also, a lot of the Japanese youth use niconico or other streaming sites to watch anime that already aired.

        • If the manga and anime companies in Japan worked more closely with the foreign companies, I bet you the sells of both would rise enormously. More money for everyone and that is what all the companies want anyway. Japan’s manga and anime industries know that there are 3 times more reader and viewer than all of Japan. They just need to get of there asses and start collaborating.

        • @alidan

          “2)thats what they pay for 2 episodes. meaning that you are paying 1/12 what they pay for the whole series”

          And it’s still five times what you’d pay for a series of The Simpsons or any other American programme. Do the Japanese have a word for “rip-off”?

          “4)online, buy online.”

          Not all websites ship to all countries. And when a website does ship, you can expect the price to double and the package to take a month to arrive. God help you if it’s ero or even slightly risqué; it won’t get through customs and you’ll run the risk of being thrown in prison under anti-loli laws.

          Like the Japanese otaku, you fail to understand that buying anime isn’t as easy for everyone else as it is for you. Downloading isn’t just the cheapest way to get anime for some people; it’s sometimes the only practical way to get it.

        • I love this.

          My favorite example?

          Ah! Megumi-Sama
          or
          Oh! My Goddess!

          I’ve seen volumes 1-28. I know that Japan is up to 36+. I can’t get anything beyond 29 last I checked (and I haven’t bothered reading it again)

          Why?

          Because I had the opportunity to read fan scans with translation and Dark Horse did not even sell #29 while Japan was on 36+.

          Now it has been a few years. But I bet that that the Dark Horse comics are still years behind because they are that pathetic with releases.

        • You can’t buy something if it isn’t available in dvd.

          The problem with the majority of dvd’s with english subs is that thier own translators – “don’t know how to translate” worth a bloody damn.

          There are too many nuances & subtleties of modern Japanese and modern english, not to mention that there is English english and American english that complicates the whole barrel of mushrooms.

          If an anime producer doesn’t invest in doing it right, the english speaking consumer is going to feel ripped off and let down. Which leaves them to what else. The fansubbers.

          The problem is Japan’s own anime industry’s racial biases. They’re naturally xenophobic to anyone else that isn’t Japanese. So the export market suffers in the short term.

          There wouldn’t have to be any fansubbers, if the industry provided decent service and appreciated the fans overseas.

          Its just a catch 22 situation.

          It really sucks – even some of the fansubbers don’t know what the fuck they’re doing when they rush a rush job. They take the contexts and really screw them up sometimes.

          o__0 *

          I’ve read the novels and I have the dvd’s for the 12 kingdoms. the producers verson of english subs – got the most of it wrong with piss poor translations.
          The only way to enjoy the anime is to watch the fansubbed version, if you want to watch it “in context” with the original authors novels.

          meh – I guess it shows that I’m more the bookworm than yur typical otaku.

        • Ok guys I’m gonna have a second say in this.

          What is stated in the article is the wrong type of response. There is nothing wrong in fansubbing something that is Free in TV in Japan and viceaversa for Western Shows. I don’t believe in this bullshit that since its in Japan for Free or US for Free it should be paid. I MEAN COME ON GUYS FFS DON’T YOU HAVE TV NETWORKS SHOWING PAST SHOWS YOU MISSED?

          If this was the CASE why do they SHOW Dragon Ball Z on TV etc, however DVD/BD versions is another matter.

          Common Sense was missed here. There was a ball thrown at the GLOVE and you didn’t catch it.

          IF you like the TV show in question or want to support it you buy the DVD/BD with extras which has always been included in both JAPAN and the US. I just don’t see the kneejerk smart ass response they play it on TV for free in both US and JAPAN and they both get subbed whats wrong with that?

        • I’ve paid $103.00 (EMS 5-7 Days) shipping from Japan to the US for a bulk order of DVDs. I could have taken that $103.00 and bought THREE complete season blurays w/ $3.00 shipping from RightStuf.

          Never again, never again.

        • Perhaps if a fully functioning company decides to get their balls together an actually show better quality and fansub, both in punctuality and video quality, then perhaps we will even think of buying them.

          As much as 2ch and most of us consumers are “stealing” from the business, as far as I see it the companies aren’t doing a good job enough to get even paid.

        • shoganai
          17:18


          …when a website does ship, you can expect the price to double and the package to take a month to arrive…

          Granted, I’m in the US, where it might be a bit easier to get stuff – but whenever I order stuff from Japan, it usually take about 12-15 days (via SAL) to reach me, and I’ve yet to have a shipping charge that was more than $15USD.

          Not exactly breaking the bank or waiting eons to get it, but the numbers people constantly throw out often seem far exaggerated to me.

          However, I do realize that not everywhere is as efficient or easy to have stuff mailed to them.


          Like the Japanese otaku, you fail to understand that buying anime isn’t as easy for everyone else as it is for you.

          Oh, I’m quite aware of how difficult it is. But you make choices and some sacrifices to buy what you want.


          Downloading isn’t just the cheapest way to get anime for some people; it’s sometimes the only practical way to get it.

          Cheapest? Sure. Practical? Debatable. Either way – it’s still just as illegal as walking into a store and taking something off the shelf and walking out without paying.

          The internet has made people feel that they are entitled to something. Well, I’m not against all that, but stealing to get what you want because someone in Japan won’t let you legally buy it? I wouldn’t be happy about it, but I wouldn’t go about taking it from them.

          Money talks. Buy what you like, and avoid the trash. Eventually the distributors will get the hint.

        • I disagree with the Japanese Stance.

          Movies now are going pretty cheap around Australia/America say about $30 AUS for an entire season on Seinfield etc and even imported ones are going cheaply nowadays but what about Anime?

          Anime is pretty static in price they still remain $60 for a series regardless whether its good or not, this goes against the trend and no one will ever buy this up.

        • shoganai
          17:18

          it costs that much because they have a small fanbase that can support an entire industry with next to no large fan base.

          something like the tv anime is just an extended advertisement, unlike in america where they make most there money off the tv version, anime recupes the cost in dvd bd. you can argue that lower prices would get more people buying it, but it wont, because what you are treated like when people know you like anime. only the hardcore are willing to take those risks.

          and as for number 4, yea it may take time and a bit more money, but you are bitching you cant find them. i have some experience in buying actual illegal things over the net, shit thats way harder to get than anime, but its still the same. its all about knowing who is selling it, and finding multipul sources.

          now loli laws don’t come into effect for every loli, there is only a minute fraction of anime that could get your ass in trouble, and if you really want them, well buyer beware. buy the simple fact is, dont buy those.

        • If you actually looked at the total downloads for anime you would see that it can’t be piracy which is the problem. Popular shows like Naruto and Bleach have drastically reduced downloads since they started simultaneous broadcasts on Crunchyroll. I did a quick check and Naruto Shippuuden went from a peak of almost 1 million downloads to around 100,000 downloads after the simulcasts started and Bleach went from around 600,000 downloads to about 60,000 downloads at the start of the simulcasts time.

        • Anonymous
          16:02

          i have to point this shit out

          1) different, yes, worse, not in recent years. the problem is they translate it in a way we don’t like, or would prefer it differently.
          2)thats what they pay for 2 episodes. meaning that you are paying 1/12 what they pay for the whole series
          3)they havent been that bad in recent years, but i prefer to not have them. granted, if its a choice between subs that i dont like the translation of or listening to it in english, ill chose english
          4)online, buy online.

      • > The difference is that we’re gaijin pirates.

        Exactly !

        And why would I care about supporting xenophobic racist japanese otakus ?

        I pirate anime as long as it exists and if the industry collapses its not because of piracy in the west but because of their own damn politicians, which those otakus cannot even bother to do something about. But I guess leaving their home and voting is asking too of for them, right ?

        As for 2ch… yeah, fuck em… I wouldn’t even spit on those retards. The funny thing is they are hated and looked down upon in their own country by their own people so why should I care ?

        Something else that I find funny is that everytime I spend some time in Japan, I get more pussy in a week than any of them will see in their entire lifetime even if they went on a raping spree…

        Hahaha, 2ch I guess your women prefer dirty barbarian gaijin dicks…

        ^_^

        • The fansubber get nothing out of subbing the anime for themsevles, they can already understand anime well enough on their own, but they are doing it for free for other to see, That’s some kind of dedication.

          Plus I think some fansub are better than official sub, sure there are some mistake, but the quality of sub are sometimes better (bandai’s haruhi sub….OMG)….and it’s done within a week..

          They keep thinking short-term that DVD is the only way to make money….how short-sighted they are

        • Pathetic.

          Pornstars are not “glorified”, they are “degraded”.

          This guy think he has it all but i’d say he has a mental problem.
          He is bragging here, i mean….wtf?
          Do you need to show of to Otaku? GOD, that’s pathetic.

          Anyway; I’d say his “productions” have basically the same problem, MINUS the bullshitting.

        • Your right, I’m just like you +1

          I get more pussy from the REAL Women(3D) then those little dick non initiative losers when I spend a day in from 18yr old fresh (legal rated Japanese girls with the OPAI they crave) without a pedo fetish/incest targeting view.

          Not only that I can go to a American strip club in my own country, socialize and get the GODDESSES they will never see wittout having $1,000,000.00 in their own bank accounts and I’m screwing them with a measly $50,000.00 year job. Why? My Dick is bigger then yours and my stamina is PORNO level. I watch anime/fansubs/buy it if I like it I’d love to take alot of these stories and put them in adult films but ya know something. I do believe in copyright protection stories. I’ve approached several of them in a legal business aspect with my Lawyers in the past, know what I hear?

          —— No answer at all, I get stared down like I’m a pervert trying to help their business out in my OWN INDUSTRY on American soil. I don’t care a dollar is a dollar, but I’ve made already 2million dollars being a Male Porn Star and getting 50,000 a year via royalties.

          Women who play, Hard to Get -Safe Women- I have sex with Globally.

          You could call them the Tsundere type, but look I tell a woman style by conversating with them. If your too afraid to say, “Want to fuck.” No is no. You can’t hate me for being open and honest.

          This includes Americanized women.
          Tell them your plans straight forward.

          Like I read before “Otaku’s cry, complain and write on digital walls, grow some real balls.”

          XY & DNA gave you them. Then use your head, and stop being lazy. Go exercise, running is free, pushups are FREE, situps are FREE?

          Change your lifestye, and you’d be surprised how many woman approach you then.. LOSERS.

    • Fansuubing greatly helps and promotes anime IMO. The fuck would I buy this figures and anime related goodies. if it wasn’t for fansubbing I won’t be even interested on it coz I can’t f#%@!n understand it.

      • It’s totally true though, I mean do they think about who’s giving out the anime to foreigners in the first place? I’m not sure how someone in england would just randomly have a digital copy of Bakuman without help on the Japanese front.

    • I’m have to side with the Fansubbers here, there are animes, that came out in 2007, finally being release in an official sub in 2010. Most of the anime I’ve seen are fansubbed. It takes too damn long to wait just as the fansubbers said. I’m sorry but 2-chan is just scum. I mean I’m a very deep otaku but, these guys just breaks through rock bottom to the point where they don’t show respect for anime anymore.

      • Actually, I’m not American. I’m telling that based on what I see in my own country, American content and varied cable tv stuff from a few hundred channels that airs even stuff from countries that you’d twist your tongue to say their names.

        You see, I’m a fan of sci-fi, medieval fantasy (include here fairies, dragons, whatever and even plain boring medieval dudes fighting with their might human strength) and comedies. Europe tends to fail here (rly, I fail to find even good comedies there). America has been failing hard here. My own country is a damn joke in content production. And I love animated stuff.

        And thus I turned my attention to anime and although Japanese animation has seen better days it still pleases me a lot. And unfortunately, those evil fansubs tend to give very little attention to real good comedies to the point I watch incredibly sh!.tty encodes from your-mom to be able to see it till the end.

        Oh they show anime here in my country, if you consider POKEMON an anime. But then there was Full Metal Alchemist (new release huh?) and it got me interested but damn it, I work and I can’t be watching it in the middle of the day or late at night and I can’t record too because copyright is a b!.tch.

        Ok, let’s buy the original DVDs/BDs with amazing FOUR episodes each and $80 (o come on, US dollar is just 1 dollar for every 2 of my currency and you don’t have to eat or pay your electricity/phone/internet bills anyway, just buy all the 8 DVDs/BDs already)..

        Enough rant right? No. Stop thinking as if the world was America and earned money as America. If even America finds it hard to buy overpriced Japanese stuff then what the fack am I supposed to do?

        Jesus. Sorry Sankaku, I got kind of mad…

      • “Unfortunately good foreign material is rare these”

        I know you are probably American and don’t understand but there’s a whole ton of countries that make really good TV series and movies sadly it’s not available to many other places so it also gets pirated, Japanese just seem to hate on foreigners more then any other country.

    • And so the cycle begins once again on 2ch hating on the Engrish folk once more. Although we like to watch the same series that airs in Japan, and some of those shows never even make it becuase of the raunchiness that some of these series have. Either that, or they aren’t mainstream like most of the Jump series.

      Heck even getting an series you like fansubed is considered as a God-send since you’re never sure if a certain series has what it takes to be brought over or not.

    • It goes both ways. The tards love shows like south park and fan sub them in mass (also have a horrendously bad dub that they admit is horrendous also, cough cough) anyways.

      Only difference is we don’t rely on sunday night cartoons to support our life/economy like the japanese..

    • One thing… In reality, without things like anime fansubs, or manga scanlations, most of the popular anime would never have sold overseas. For eg, 1 of the big 3, One Piece only managed to enter Singapore ‘cos of popularity due to scans and fansubs. I’m not too sure about the rest, but I think I can safely say that… there are many more anime and manga out there that would never have sold… without the assistance of fansubs and scans.

      On one note.. I’d like to point out that… yeah, sure… fansubs can be equivalent to piracy. But… to many others who lack the finances to enjoy it… I don’t think it’s right to completely deprive them of it. Besides, not all otaku over the world are like Japanese otaku… free to leech of their parents forever. Also, those otaku in regions where anime isn’t aired torrent and download anime as well… So… as much as they hate it… (live with it? what else can you do?)

    • just to say, the animes which are “stolen” are from TV. which means, nobody has directly paid for it. so it’s wrong to say they have to buy it. they could record the tv shows too. -.-“.. of course I can little bit understand them, because most people would say, If I don’t have to pay to watch it, why should i buy it?

      1. then this people are “casual” watchers, they would watch the anime one time and that’s it.
      2. the industry of japan anime lives from otakus and not from “good” buyers, which means otakus would buy it, anyway they saw it already without costs.
      3. the industry has not much to do with the other country, they only give the country the “licence” to sell it, so if we would “hurt” someone, then it is the own country, but..
      4. (like myself) people who liked a specify anime very much, would buy it after watching it, because they want support it and are pride to have a little diamond in their home.

      @hollywood movies in japan, they do it. they do it 100% too and I think its the same like in the other countries, but the difference between “stealing” a hollywood movie and an anime is, the movie isn’t first in the TV, which could look everyone, with only pay the normal costs, but the anime is it. (except the OVA, that is something different in this topic)

      thats my opinion to it.

      • Well, I guess one could make the argument that they ‘pay’ for a show by buying goods in advertising. Still, those idiots are off their rocker. If not for fansubbers there wouldn’t be a huge anime and manga following in the west. It’s largely through the consumption of anime, manga, and games that Americans know as much about Japanese culture as they do. It’s even inspired people to learn the language. Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

    • Your right, I know peeps in Japan who have to download episodes themselves because they don’t get certain anime broadcasts because a majority only air in Tokyo.

      I’m sure several on 2ch do exactly what I mention and think nothing of it. I’m sure there are also people on 2ch that record the shows, help translate, then distribute the shows for the rest of us.

      God bless you all hypocritical bastards on 2ch, we still love ya. ^_^

    • Seriously they pirate our shows as well. 2ch are a bunch of hypocritical bastards. The only reason they buy their own anime is because they are so obsessed with the culture they have to buy the disc to get those bonuses, ala dakimakura, keychain thingies, wallpapers, etc ,etc… If the anime was just the disc I doubt they would buy it. They would just download it, burn it, and then use an imaging software to give it the “illusion” of a retail copy just like people do for games on all the consoles.

      Also maybe I just suck at reading comprehension but the interviewers(fansubbers) didn’t say that they would pirate the stuff no matter what. They just said it’s their only option atm. I’m sure fansubbers still support the company by buying the discs upon release or even importing them. Hell a lot of anime people not from Eastern nationality do that. They download the fansubs and then purchase the imported version, and sometimes even get the US version.

      Once 2ch sees the words piracy they immediately start hounding without actually looking at the full story. They immediately relate Westerners = pirates, when a lot of people don’t do that. Or they may pirate first then buy. Also again the fansubbers never said anything along the lines of “HAHAHA we pirate and we will never buy a retail copy, MUHAHAHAHA!” They simply said it’s their only option, but they didn’t exactly say they don’t buy the retail copy after the fact. 2Ch just assumed that. Anime fans may use fansubs but they buy the retail copy for their personal collection. So they get the best of both worlds.

      Also again I guarantee most of those idiots that were quoted do in fact pirate western movies so they are hypocrites.

      • 2ch is a reflection of Japanese society. Ipso facto, it’s rather foolish to refer to the “bunch of them” as being hypocritical. Take note of the fact that there are boards like “Illegal Drugs” “Animal Haters” “Downloads” which the average 2channeller (as represented in the 2 most popular boards, “News Flash” and “Vip”) criticize, if not outright despise.

        Yes, I rather agree that there is a rather idiotic “Pirate=Do-no-good thieves” thing going on. However, you have to keep in mind of the fact that anime otaku is a MINORITY (albeit much better represented than in RL) in 2ch. One shouldn’t expect much of an educated response from a group of fans that see their beloved industry as waning, in a forum that advocates quickness and wittyness above all else, and cannot set foot in the foreigners’ eyes for “they think differently because we are a unique niche in a unique country”.Thus, they will be quick to denounce most kinds of piracy, as demonstrated by the hatred towards DS “backup” ROMs.

        Also, please take note of the fact that half of the Japanese population do not live in either of the three major metropolitan areas, and so get minimal (1-2 per year in my prefecture) anime. What’s more, we can’t access websites with legal fansubbing of anime, because Japanese IPs are blocked (for obvious reasons). Indeed, internet broadcasting of anime has become increasingly widespread lately, as represented by Nicovideo, but this is a week after the original broadcast. Don’t think you foreigners are the only ones having to resort to alternative measures to get your anime fix, mmkay?

        • I’m sure people don’t really think all Japanese have access to all anime Moshi, it’s just some peoples tempers get flared up when they’re called out for participating in the thing they love. In this case watching anime that has to be pirated. No offense to you or any other person that has to step outside legal boundaries to get the things they love, 2ch just instantly gets on everyones nerves.

    • It depends really. I believe Dubbing is a necessary evil for anime (and anything foreign) to make it mainstream in the United States. They wouldn’t show Bleach on Adult Swim if it was only subbed… it wouldn’t be also one of there most popular shows either.

      Most anime fans start with the dubs, then migrate to subs when they desire more, it’s a natural progression.

    • ya, i get you, damn 4kids.

      also, censorships is also to blame for the low sales of anime in USA.

      someone should make an animation on the iraq war shit and see how they censor it.

      heck, Odex > 4kids

        • What you’re talking about is Delivery. When you watch a little kid doing a school play from script, does it sound the same as a trained actor? Not saying it can’t be a kid, some kids can act quite well with proper training and intuition. Anyway, no, no it doesn’t sound the same.

          Japanese VAs are: TRAINED

          At least in most cases. The reason you never hear anyone give a monologue in real life is because monologues are part of the delivery of plot in any kind of production, be it a play, film, or TV show. Heck, you need Delivery in music, if it has lyrics.

          Most of the people doing American dubs are the same people who do American cartoons with their wacky nonsense (fyi, I watch the anime that I DO watch because it DOES NOT do that). They have the ability to Deliver wacky content, but in Anime it is usually out of context and sounds awkward. Granted, it would work just fine with something like Dead Leaves, but even that requires deadpan Delivery. You have a hard time getting proper deadpan Delivery in American COMEDY, for god’s sake, and that’s where it is really, really important.

          If you look at really old American TV shows, like back in the 70’s, they hadn’t really refined the art of Delivery in a way that people sitting around at home would take it seriously and pay a lot for it. This started to pick up once Hollywood became really big-budget, but then it lost its soul somewhere in the 90’s-00’s era, and we’re recycling crap now. The same people employed in recycling that crap are turning anime into crap by dubs.

          Anime in America is still about as new as TV productions were in the 70’s. I wager, give it 10-15 years, America will figure out how to properly dub anime, and that’ll last for about 10-15 years once it gets worked out, and then we’ll go back to recycling crap again.

        • You ever watch a movie and get sucked in to the movie? That can never ever happen with English dub anime because none of the voice actors know how to put any emotion or character into it. All the voices come off sounding like the same 5 people in every dub, and they all sound like they belong to a childrens cartoon or they are simply reading in a generic “Happy” Voice, “Angry” voice, “sad” voice. There’s no believability.

        • The above anon needs to take his tantrums elsewhere, that was just uncalled for. That being said, saying “Dubs = not good (ever). Is am ignorant generality. In the future I hope you both learn to make more constructive conversation.

        • At least you were reasonable enough to acknowledge that it’s your own personal opinion. Dubs can be great. Cowboy Bebop director actually stated on many occation that actually deemed the English dubs of his show to be superior than that of the original Japanese dubs.

    • It’s because the stupid Americans running the companies still think what the vast majority of stupid American adults think: that cartoons are for little kids, and so they can put as little effort into them as possible, since the little kiddies won’t know any better.

      What they don’t get is that between manga and anime in Japan, people from age four to age sixty-four read and watch this stuff. It’s not just for “small minded, easily fooled” kids ages 6-14, and maybe if someone got these MORONS running the dubbing companies educated on just what the hell anime IS, maybe they’d put enough effort into dubs so that they don’t suck so horribly.

      • fucking damn this is what im talking about ^^

        american companies still think anime is for kids when they don’t realized that american cartoon is not equal to japanese anime, there are more mature than that american crap, Evangelion, Hellsing, heck i doubt they can even air Higurashi due to it’s content and such.

        same thing with american comics and japanese manga. what are the genres for american comics? oh that’s right superheroes and that’s the only thing they have, while in manga they offer kids, shoujo, yuri, yaoi, violence, action, superhero, mecha’s, moe’s, h-manga, harem. you name it. not to mention manga appeals to larger variety of groups(a huge part of asia also)

        while american comics? well they only appeal to americans, the rest of asia? very few but there are some quality artist like Ashley Wood and series like Witchblade and Spawn(which probably the only 2 western comics i like, maybe characters like Gambit and Spiderman look cool. though witchblade had a manga and anime so that’s a plus ^^)

        want western comics japan? i recommend you look Ashley Wood, he’s art is not only Stunning but godlike also. just look at MGS Portable Ops, Peace Walker and Hellspawn. now that’s the kind of western art i want to see more. even the Killer 7 and No More Heroes Comics look pretty good(though i sill want to see the japanese manga version of it)

        can anyone also recommend me some western comics? i might read a thing or two ^^

        • @TFish

          That was 10 years ago, when anime was breaking out in North America and companies were experimenting with the best way to market it. That sort of thing hasn’t been done since then because they now know we don’t want it.

        • After the Cardcaptors debacle, uncut sub only sets were released. Sailor Moon had a rocky localization full of edits, delays, and recasts, but eventually they got less retarded about the editing (although they never did acknowledge the gay characters in the show). 4kids released a series of uncut dual language Yu Gi Oh discs, but they were discontinued due to low sales. They also let their One Piece contract expire BECAUSE they realized they couldn’t do it justice and still get it aired on network TV, and now Funimation has the series, and they’ve been steadily releasing re-dubbed uncut box sets AND streaming the series in Japanese and English. The Trust and Betrayal Samurai X OVAs were a mess (I don’t know how they fucked up the pronounciation of “Tomoe”) but they got much better in Reflection.

          You’re absolutely right about the Tokyo Mew Mew thing though. What a clusterfuck THAT was.

        • “If American companies thought anime was “just for kids”, then how did we end up with English releases of Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scroll, Vampire Hunter D, Fist of the North Star, Wicked City, Golgo 13, Berserk, Armitage, RIN, Afro Samurai…”

          Right. Now let me list off a few titles that were horribotched in translation.

          First, let’s all remember what happened to Card Captor Sakura, or “Cardcaptors”. Spliced episodes, plot drops, and changing the show’s demographic. Sailor Moon had the same thing happen, sliced and diced. The Samurai X OVAs, oh those were PAINFUL to watch after Rurouni Kenshin was over. Then there’s all the wonderful tales of 4Kids – we all remember One Piece’s first run, and Shaman King got rather skewered too. Oh, and Yu-Gi-Oh. All that “shadow realm” crap? Yeah, that was because they couldn’t say people were actually getting KILLED. Chobits was painful to listen to. Tokyo Mew Mew – well fuck, it didn’t even last more than 20 episodes the dub was so bad. BELIEVE IT! Yeah. Oh, you mentioned Akira. Ever seen the ORIGINAL version of that? Tried listening to any of the Negima anime series recently? The female girl seiyuu sounds more like a male Negi by now than her male counterpart in the role across the ocean. List can go on and on.

          Sure, there have been some series that got it right and all. But the list of ones that didn’t is staggering. When you have a success rate of less than fifty percent in your dubbing capabilities, you’re doing something shittily wrong.

        • popularity perhaps? i remember when ghost in the shell and Cowboy Bepop were getting huge in japan. guess american companies at that time wanted a piece of the pie. what about now? where are those localization they’ve been making in the past?

          @ i think your right about One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, and all the mainstream anime being the representation of anime itself(still today some people think anime only revolves on naruto) but after seeing those and watching/reading more anime/manga. your view widens, you tons of options to choose and so on.

          while if you read american comic one after another, you feel the genre is still the same(super hero) albeit different approach. let’s say you read a series like spiderman then went to spawn(a more violent one i might add) i think the reason is that the options are just not wide enough as manga. while some are actually going in some genre(romance) i feel they’re restricted because of bullshit moralist fags in america controlling what you make.

          oh well just read what you want. nobody is forcing you to go either sides.

        • Yeah, there are way more american comic genre’s than SuperHeros it’s just the super heros are the most popular. Someone that’s not really into the manga scene could say the same thing about Manga, the most popular manga at the moment are One piece, Bleach, and Naruto. Super Hero, Super Hero and Super Hero, maybe not by traditional standards but they and all other popular shonen manga are Superheros.

        • If American companies thought anime was “just for kids”, then how did we end up with English releases of Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scroll, Vampire Hunter D, Fist of the North Star, Wicked City, Golgo 13, Berserk, Armitage, RIN, Afro Samurai…

          The list kind goes on. None of these titles are for children, and every single one of them were released uncut and uncensored.

  • Coming from the same people who couldn’t even lend a single cent to Akamatsu-sensei’s ideal manga service site which could have lead to further innovations in the anime/manga industry. Yeah 2ch… quite the example you guys are setting as well.

    • Indeed, the irony. Sorry, I won’t pay $80 for an anime soundtrack. Or a bd with 4 eps (out of 20+). Priorities ppl.

      Maybe they could try and give the rest of the world some attention before pointing fingers and blaming others?

  • I still don’t get what’s the importance of American companies licensing anime though; THE AMERICAN MARKET IS ONLY A FRACTION OF THE POPULATION OF THE WHOLE WORLD OUTSIDE JAPAN IDIOTS. ESSENTIALLY THOSE AMERICAN COMPANIES DON’T CATER THOSE OTHER COUNTRIES AT ALL (which combined is obviously a bigger market than either the US or Japan), HENCE THERE AREN’T EVEN ANY “LEGAL” ALTERNATIVES FOR THOSE 190+ OTHER COUNTRIES. Unless you import those licensed anime yourself, ending up paying 2-3 times more.

      • Even if theres advertising, its still free to watch. They get to watch all the anime they want (excluding stations like ATX) without paying any extra money than the normal cable price, and Americans don’t have this option. I wonder how these 2ch people would react if someone brought this up, because I’ve never once seen any of those 2ch people mention this side of the story.

        • You all don’t understand how 1/2 of the Japanese population, who don’t live in the big metropolises and thus get close to no anime, feel. Now that some sites that air subbed anime are actually legit, it’s us who have to choose between buying the DVDs, paying boatloads of money for some cable network, or pirating the shows. Just saying that foreigners aren’t the only ones having a hard time.

        • Interesting. I will reflect on this. However, being that I mostly buy everything I watch subbed once it becomes available anyway, I still support fansubbing. If it weren’t for fansubs, I probably wouldn’t own a quarter of the anime I own today and I’ve spent thousands of dollars on my collection.

        • Moshi is absolutely correct.

          There is no anime whatsoever on the free channels. There is a bit more on cable channels. There is a lot on certain key stations in Kanto and Osaka, and everything on ATX. People in the regions get nearly nothing.

          Under these circumstances it simply is not correct to say anime is “all free to watch.”

        • There’s also ways to remove advertising from recordings… all a free process. The point is, we have to actually be viewing the show on television to see these ads (all of which can be avoided with the change of a channel anyway), but if we don’t have the anime localized, we won’t be seeing the ads anyway. Not to mention we have features such as On Demand and ways to remove ads from streaming videos. I doubt they’d call any of the above methods piracy…

        • The American anime translation industry would make a lot less money without fansubbing as well, though. Like I said in another section here, Japanese can “trial” a series first by watching a show on TV before buying the DVD. Americans don’t have that option legally, and fansubbign is the only way you can really learn about series before they come over here officially. Is anyone going to buy a 50 dollar box set on a series they know nothing about? So people already having knowledge of these series would surely help the DVDs when they eventually do come over here.

      • I agree, but the point is that someone other than the consumer is paying for thier anime. So it is free to the consumer at least. I pay for my internet, and if it wasn’t for fansubs id prolly still be on dialup.

      • I agree with Ryan Saotome…
        They have the option of watching a series on TV and choosing if they want to buy the dvd/bluray if they liked it enough. Can’t expect people to buy a series if they don’t even know if they will like it.
        But I do think there is a disconnect between people that watch fansub and those that actually buy the dvd/bluray. Blame the american liscensers for not giving much incentive I suppose…
        They should probably focus more on reasonably priced box sets with cool extras like an art book, posters, etc. bundled with it. I don’t want to pay $20-30 for just one episode. Secondly the series they pick up are often outdated so they need to be much faster in picking up series that are “hot” instead of yesterdays news.

  • Paying to see someone elses tv shows is bad enough. Getting them late and poorly done is a deal killer.
    They should take a longer look at an industry that ignores its foreign customers before taking another swing at American Otaku.

  • Fansubber’s excuses to make illegal distribution of anime in Western countries were right 10~15 years ago, but not anymore. Fansubbers don’t get it anymore : they hurt the Western market much more than they help it, for a very simple reason : Japanese companies are frightened to death when you try to negociate an early broadcast or simulcast on the Internet. For Japanese businessmen Western Internet = piracy, that’s as simple as that. And about anime, this opinion comes of course because Japanese animes were illegally and heavily distributed by fansubbers.

    Recently a well known European distributer stated that they’ve been wanting to do simulcast of Japanese animes for FOUR YEARS. Japan never agreed to do this because they were really frightened by internet piracy. Again in their mind internet = piracy. Now it’s very hard for Western editors to negociate simulcasts because fansubbers still illegally distribute animes that are BRODCASTED IN SIMULCAST WITH JAPAN. Seriously, WTF ? Yesterday when looking for The World God Only Knows on Google I found that the French editor that does simulcast for this series – FREE ! – was pirated and that the anime is FANSUBBED on another website !!!

    So again, maybe fansubbers did promote anime more than 10 years ago, but now it’s only BS. They’re more pirates than anything else. And don’t say that they’re helping to promote anime, huge animes like Naruto don’t need fansubbers. Actually, most of the viewers of shônen/shôjo type of anime on TV DON’T WATCH SUBTITLED ANIMES. Subtitled animes on TV means you loose 95% of your audience immediatly : general audience watch dubbed animes only.

    Not that I never watched fansubs in my life. But nowadays, fansubbers definitively need to agree that they’re more in the “illegal/piracy” side of the “market”. Stop bullshitting, just accept it.

  • An alternative would be: Learn Japanese and watch the raws floating in the interwebz. Watching fansubs would be the same thing, albeit not having you need to know the language. And anyways, who are the ones that uploads said rips in the first place? Most likely the Japanese themselves. We’re no different from each other is such aspects, really, other than the fact that we aren’t Japanese of course.

  • i think if it weren’t for fansubbers and translators anime and manga industry wouldn’t be popular enough outside of japan.

    i think someone already said there’s no difference in watching anime from fansubbers than watching it broadcast in japan, they’re just there to promote their products. so just buy the dvd and blu ray versions and be done with it.

    the problem with the american market is the constant bullshit delays and few selected titles, i mean where’s my Hellsing Ultimate VI and so on? they only promote those who are already mainstream(bleach, naurto) but they still lag a hundred episodes. not to mention the constant censoring and tampering with manga character name’s and titles. so it’s really hard to buy it with %100 uncensored.

    lol at 2ch you mad? it’s like you don’t pirate yourselves?

  • The Japanese just do not understand how things are over here.

    1) No previews.

    What does this mean? Lack of anime on TV in the states. Yes there are a few shows but for the most part anime is non existent on US television. What there is are shows that are completely unheard of. So people resort to downloads to preview a show. If they like it and decide to buy… only to find out no one has picked it up or it won’t be out for months or years. So they stick with the downloads that go up usually whiten 48 to 72 hours of airing. Sometimes less than 12 hours.

    In Japan however, darn near everything airs on TV depending on what “cable” package they have. They can “sample” it all. So when it hits DVD they can spend their money accordingly.

    2) Not everything is released. When it is, it comes out months… even years after it airs in Japan.

    I hate the ~6 months to watch Top Gear episodes. Anime is sometimes even longer to come out state side.

    In Japan I think some TV shows start hitting DVD before the last EP of the season airs on TV. I think anime goes from TV to DVD even faster than US TV shows go from TV to DVD.

    3) Cost

    Japan actually thinks it is OK to spend approx. $70 for 2 episodes? Are they on crack? You can get ENTIRE SEASONS of US TV shows on DVD for $30-$50. They really expect us to pay those prices?

    4) No or total crap releases

    Most anime over here (when it finally arrives) is crap. Horrible, sub standard dubs. Severely delayed/slow releases. Companies dropping a series before it is done.

    5) The US market for video entertainment is changing

    Netflix has taken off. Renting in general has taken off. I for one, who used to buy tons of DVD’s, have stopped. I rent everything now. Why buy something you might watch once, maybe twice in a 10 year span? Why pay for something with all the reasons I have stated above?

    But this also fails for some of the same reasons that buying does. Specifically insanely late releases. Most DVD’s have subs but Netflix streaming does not. Im not going to test out anime on disk even tho the disks are a short turn around.

    So call the US subbers what you like Japan. Its all a result of horrible legal releases over here. In the US if you release a shitty product someone will come along and offer a better option. Granted it might not be the most legal thing.

  • Japan’s shit localization is to blame for fansubbing. 99.9% of what gets fansubbed doesn’t even leave shore. We’re hurting an industry we’re not even a part of?

    I don’t think so you brain-less nips.

  • “If you don’t broadcast and release DVDs simultaneously in all countries, your sales will continue to decrease. In a world connected by the Internet, popularity arises simultaneously, globally.

    If you try to force people to wait a year for something to be localised, it will long since have fallen from popularity by then.”

    This man does understand, as do we. Some of us do buy the DVDs of the anime we really like, and I prefer to import them than to wait, but there’s only so much I can buy at $100US [roughly after shipping and customs] a disc with 2 eps [just 3 series and one movie so far]. Also, those imported DVDs don’t figure as overseas sales.

    I do watch a lot more than I buy though, but how would I like a show I haven’t watched? Japanese don’t buy it before watching it either.

    Moreover, 2ch conveniently forgets there exists an assortment of merchandise that can not be pirated and also counts as support to the animation studios. However, most of it is imported and resold locally in anime conventions and the like, so they don’t figure as overseas sales either…

    • …I’m sure 2ch would find flaw in these arguments, but they would most likely boil down to:

      “you don’t spend nearly enough, like we do, to say you support the industry”

      But who can actually dedicate as much money as they do to the industry?… Let’s do a quick survey to find out the difference in spending habits between Japanese and Western otaku [Please someone ask this to 2ch]

      1. Do you earn your own income?
      2. How much of your monthly income can you dedicate to leisure? How much of that goes to anime related goods?
      3. Do you cut into your monthly income’s share usually dedicated for food, clothes and such to instead buy anime goods? How often?
      4. Do you feel like you want to buy more anime goods but can’t afford them? How often?
      5. When you earn extra money than you were not expecting, Do you dedicate some of it to anime goods? How often?
      6. Would you prefer:
      A) to seek a way to earn more money to dedicate to anime goods?
      B) that the prices for anime related goods in general be lowered?.

      I’ll start the first one
      1. yes
      2. 30% and 50%
      3. yes, twice or thrice a year
      4. yes, always
      5. yes, maybe twice a year
      6. B)

  • I just don’t get 2ch sometimes, it’s like they are a different species…

    If I was able to get English subtitles from watching it on TV or DVD, then I would just do that but no, they don’t do that on TV & most DVDs don’t offer English subtitles with the original Japanese dub so…

  • At least even some of the most socially awkward otakus in the US actually go out. Japan and China seem to be two sides of the same fucked up coin now. QUALITY and Quality. It’s crap recent junk nowadays that’s killing my interest in anime and Japan. Not to genralize but damn, You can’t lump everyone in the same thing like that.

    If Japan was pirating merchandise, I’m sure they do, like we fansubbed, I’m pretty sure our market would not collaspe or even notice. Then again this sounds like it’s coming from the same people who bought FF13 and 14 just because it’s Squeenix and oh so popular without checking it out beforehand. Just like downloading music, you can’t lose profits you were never going to have. I’ll buy something if I really like it and to support the creators, but not if i want to try it out and ends up being shit.

  • The average anime fan in the US is a teenager.
    The average teenager in the US is unemployed.
    The average unemployed person cannot afford DVDs no matter how inexpensive.
    The average American does, however, have an internet connection.

    This is the reality. Anime companies are up against something a lot bigger than just things like DVD prices and consumer preferences.

  • We live in a global economy, why hasn’t anime industry caught up with this yet?

    I actually have stacks of manga and anime I wouldn’t have bought if it wasn’t for the fan subbers. I pirate when it’s not in the states and then buy when its in the states.

    Problem is even when it does get licensed it takes literally months and months between a single volume. Its frustrating: Buy one volume in December, wait three months and buy the next volume in March or you could go online and get it a few weeks after it comes out in Japan.

    I could learn Japanese, but at my age and the expense of going back to school to start learning a language, that’s like asking me to learn how to fly.

    If amateurs with lackluster skills can translate over night, why can’t professionals do it too? I think its because of money.

    Also I don’t pirate doujinshi because I want to. If we getting to comiket to meet all the awesome artists was easier (say have a company organize tours there) I’d be doing it every comiket. Fuck Christmas, winter comiket is better!

  • I have to agree with the fan subbers on this one as well. Most anime nowadays probably cannot come to the states with all of this borderline hentai shit, making it even less probable of coming to the states. And exactly who are the idiots buying 4 fucking DVDs of Endless Eight for like 60 bucks each? Some shows are definetely worth it to buy (if it ever comes here).

    Also, is it actually illegal or wrong to download anything that basically unavailable anymore. Like outdated video games. Unless you’re actually going track these things down in a pawn shop or something, you’re never going to get a hold of them unless you find ROMs and what not.

    Are we ever going to get Sailor Moon, Digimon or Yugioh rereleased with actual Japanese uncut? I think not. and I don’t even think the last part of Sailor came to the states… Come to think of it, there’s no way to get Mighty Max legally without torrents is there? Ah good shows…

  • Don’t see the problem.

    A number of anime over the years would have never seen the light of day in the North American or European markets without fansubs revealing how good the series really is. I believe Azumanga Daioh particularly sold better as a result.

    Also, fansubbing a series shows how popular it could really be or if it is a dud. A few days ago, it was that Avatar was rated the most pirated movie this year at a billion plus. I don’t think any anime would be even close to that for anyone to care outside of Japan.

  • I’d gladly pay for anime if distributors made more of an effort to release a quality product. Just a few days ago I bought Viz Media’s release of Honey & Clover which irritatingly referred to “Shinobu” in the subtitles despite the character being clearly and repeatedly called Morita when speaking.

    Don’t get me started on Battle Vixens.

  • Well if American’s distributors didn’t take 2 freaking years to bring something over I wouldn’t be watching fansubs! Seriously, I enjoy offical releases because of their quality and such but I don’t want to wait 2 freaking years to get something I’m very excited about. So I’m siding with the fansubbers here.

  • So what im getting from this is that Japanese Otaku hate americans (they dont realize that a lot of subbers come from other places as well).

    And that they suck at business and marketing…

    so much to marvel at..

  • If Japanese pirates didn’t upload everything under the sun to the internet the fansubbers wouldn’t be able to sub anything. Set your own house in order before you look to the rest of the world.

  • The last commentary is the raw truth, and all you whiny emokids take too much for granted.. you EXPECT something for nothing all the time, and today’s ‘fansubber’ is nothing but a miserable pile of lies. But the Japanese and their greedy American licensees have some blame to take too.

    ‘Fansubbers’ today are not ‘fansubbers’, they’re PIRATES. Their ethics – limited though they were have gone out the window.

    Do you remember?
    -Waiting weeks or months for a VHS copy of some’s IMPORTED LASERDISC of anime? How there weren’t dozens or hundreds of shit anime titles to choose from at your local video store? How IF (not WHEN) the title ever got licensed, that group would cease distributing their tapes?

    Digital fansubs have made every monkey and his dog a ‘fansubber’. But how many copies of MOEBLOBOFTHEWEEK.MKV do you see posted on your favourite torrent site? If you really cared about promoting and expanding markets, why would you repost a 3rd or 6th rewrite of the same terrible show? Why not subtitle something else that noone else does? Why is there a race to be the first to post a new episode unless it serves to stroke your e-cock?

    Fansubbers today don’t even respect licensing rights either – this is the simplest and most blunt lie to their statements.

    The Japanese and American distributors have also played a smaller part in this failure too – by producing so much worthless shit, they’ve choked the pipes. SRSLY – what’s the numbers now, 80-90 titles a YEAR? This number of productions is something like 30-50% more than it was 10 years ago, but they expect people to just keep on buying it. And I mean WORTHLESS SHIT – you can love your moeblob crap as much as you want, but there is a volume at which production values and writing and directorial quality suffer – and that point was several years ago. The industry is UNSUSTAINABLE and Americans (typical) especially seemed to think there was no limit to it, thus they should through infinite amounts of cash at every title ever made. And in typical fashion, this caused the Japanese to bust a nut, pumping out dozens of terrible new shows to fill a demand which was never really there.

    “why of course we can just keep pumping this crap out forever, look at how well all that Pokemon sells!”

    ..failing to take into account that Pokemon isn’t just some disposable TV show that’ll be replaced with another in 4 months.

    So tl;dr – you’re all to blame – so-called fans who won’t pay for anything, so-called fansubbers who do it for their own ends, not for real fans; and the anime industry for throwing all their money at anything indiscriminately then belatedly realizing they need that money to live.

  • buying dvd’s in the u.s. wouldn’t support the japanese market anyway it would support our own market. granted money earned here is used to buy rights to things from there but it can’t be too much considering how much cheaper anime is sold for in the u.s. compared to japan. really japan should be a bit more annoyed by the prices they have to pay for their stuff.

  • AnnaKuramoto says:

    “Summary: ‘We’re not thieves. We just like anime. We won’t watch it if we have to pay.’ ”
    Why would they order something from overseas that isn’t even in English? Fansubbers aren’t subbing stuff released in the US, that would be redundant.

    “If Japan treated Disney cartoons and Hollywood movies like they treated our anime, the US government would go ballistic!”
    1. We do.
    2. You can find Disney cartoons and Hollywood movies outside of a Japanses torrent site. In Japanese no less.

    “The translation abilities of fansubbers are so pitiful it’s a wonder anyone thinks they can form a valid opinion of an anime by watching them.”
    They do a much better job then we do with English.

    “They refuse to learn Japanese – just look at all the Japanese who learn English to watch their films. What spoilt brats.”
    No we learn “Engrish”. If we properly learn the filty barbarian’s tongue our kin look at us funny. I speak from experience.

    “This is just what you’d expect of people who are satisfied with the video quality you get with fansubs.”
    It’s that or nothing.

    “Having these people watch our anime might encourage more censorship. It would be best if they didn’t watch them.”
    Bullshit. It’s not their fault our politicians are all either weak or corrupt.

    “What really pisses me off is when weekly manga are scanned and translated even before you can buy it in the shops here.”
    and each chapter takes weeks to get translated.

    “They think they are entitled to watch it all for free now, so they won’t buy anything. Do they think this stuff is produced by some sort of natural process!?”
    See first quote.

    “Look at the prices on the NA editions! It’s that cheap and they still won’t buy it!? It’d be a bargain sale price in Japan.”
    Our pricing is insane, as is our economy in general.

    “And they do make money from this in spite of it being a ‘volunteer effort.’ They are happy to accept donations – it doesn’t matter how hard the creators work on it, the praise and the money ends up with them in the end.”
    For site upkeep. Not their pockets.

    “And let’s not forget a certain site which targeted Japanese anime, pirated them and distributed them online for free, then became a multimillion dollar enterprise – Crunchy Roll, started by a Chinese-American.”
    Crunchroll is despised by westerners for making money off fansubs.

    “In a little while this thread will be translated and made into an article on some foreign site, and they’ll leave out the inconvenient stuff above and just start a huge flamefest.”
    Seems verbatim to me.

  • Downloading and funsubbing something should be legal, as long as it is yet to be licensed in your country. Whatever they say, us downloading something we can’t buy yet gives them NO MONEY LOSS. I don’t understand what they are unhappy for.

  • “They refuse to learn Japanese – just look at all the Japanese who learn English to watch their films. What spoilt brats.”

    Oh my god. Are the Japanese retarded? English is considered a universal language thats why its taught in most european and asian schools. Japanese is NOT a universal language.

  • Japan gets the anime aired on television. America does not. Japan can technically copy/record the aired shows with certain equipment. America cannot since anime is rarely aired on actual television.

    Fansubs do two things that are important. The first is that it gives Americans the same pre-viewing that Japan gets. Since America does not have most anime airing fansubs are American’s way of previewing the anime.

    2chan is a bit hypocritical if they are saying they support the anime simply by watching it on tv. If they don’t buy it they are more or less doing the same thing.

    2nd. Most anime released in Japan does not get picked up until much much later after it aired. Look how long it has taken rosario+vampire, phantom of inferno, etc… not to mention if the 2chaners had the unfortunate chances of being forced to listen to the american dubs I’m sure they’d sing a different tune (pun intended).However this is not my point; my point lies in the fact that without fansubs it is doubtful the anime industry would even survive in America.

    Fansubs allow people to view before buying. If people say this is illegal then so are libraries, rental places, viewing friends dvds, etc… If these type of places to watch shows did not exist then the majority of us would never actually see the shows and in turn not buy.

    I believe we have fansubs to thank for the anime industry actually managing to survive in America.

    In regards to not buying anime because of fansubs that isn’t true. Often if people like it enough after giving it a tv-like previewing through the internet they will go out and buy it. not all mind you but many do.

    I also have to laugh at the stupid comment about ATX being available world wide…it may indeed be available world wide but it isn’t translated in a language other people can actually understand.

    I must also comment about the stupidity of the statement that fansubbers may increase censorship. My only question is how?

    needless to say 2ch is probably one of the most unreliable places to get opinions on anything and the fact people make such a big deal (both americans and japanese) is kinda pathetic.

    I’ll stop typing because 2ch makes me lose my will to care.

  • 25% of Japs are running pirated copies of Windows. I wonder how many of the people complaining about evil gaijin stealing Japanese culture paid for their OS?

    They also completely misunderstand the reason why Westerners pirate anime. Unlike Japanese otaku, who are used to taking it up the arse from publishers, Westerners won’t put up with poor quality translations at obscene prices. They’ll pirate if they think they’re being ripped off and pay if they think they’re getting a fair deal.

    And they don’t take into account the “The West” =/= America. Maybe it’s easy to legally get hold of anime in the US, but in many countries it’s very rare to see anime and manga being sold and even rarer to see anything other than Naruto/One Piece/Bleach.

  • I have access to a huge number of free translations of Japanese fantasy fiction stories, because I have access to a shocking institution called a LIBRARY.

    Do the Japanese know that their authors have been allowing their fantasy stories to get printed in English?

    And then, horror of horrors, these books can be placed in libraries where ANYONE can borrow them and read them FOR FREE!

  • wow do they just not get how anime works or what?

    they get it on tv for basicly free (STFU with your “tv isnt free” shit, it is, you pay forthe provider to give it to you, and you only pay more for premium channels) while we only get the top 1-5% (ratings based) of anime on tv.

    we get it 1-2 years later, meh dubed, and translated funny – they know japanese. the argument to make us learn japanese is retarded, they are a closed off country who barely like to play nice with others, in a global economy, the language is pointless unless you are moving there for the long haul, and japan requires students to learn english, in america, my school at least, japanese isn’t even offered, however spanish, french, german, and russian are, or at least were, i don’t know about right now.

    now american side has said, and i find this hilarious, that they can not offer as high a quality product as fansubers. and they refuse to use the methods that fansubbers have developed over they years, even though the people want them.

    and ill direct japans attention to south park studios. where every episode of south park is hosted, (nearly, fucking 200 and 201, and super best friends, fucking muslems) where they pull profit from people watching it because they sell commercials for 1-3 minutes total per episode. is there any reason they cant do this? in america or in japan, after the initial season and dvds/bd’s are sold, you know cut into the pirate market, internationally?

  • I firmly believe that so long as Japan takes their sweet time releasing English dub/english sub anime there will ALWAYS be fansub groups.

    Companies claim that it takes time to release a good product, but these fansubbers AND the people who DL them apparently do care about dubbing for english voice actors.

    Also another reason is the HORRIBLE pricing. DVD’s are being sold here for $9-10 bucks. It makes no sense to get 2 episodes for $40. Your just asking them to DL this illegally.

    Anime companies HAVE to reevaluate their business model. Its not as it was 20 years ago… a lot of anime companies collapsed not as a result of the evil fansub business. The anime market in America is definitely not as it was in the 2003’s.

    I would fully promote a subscription based model if I can get anime the SAME time it was released in Japan with english subtitles as well as manga. Not a week later or a month later, but SAME DAY. Thats how you’ll compete! No one will buy a DVD containing 2 episodes only to wait 6 months for the next DVD and then the series is over….

  • To add to the 2ch comments, a lot of anime fans in the US are your typical Generation Y filth: indifferent to almost everything, morally bankrupt (and this is coming from someone with loose morals) and having such a ridiculous sense of entitlement.

    Compare this to your average anime fan in Japan: ronery guys in their 40s, living in small apartments with no (3D) girlfriends; the difference in attitude is pretty much expected.

    The older generation will continue to look down on the younger generation, while the younger generation will not give a shit and just wonder why they aren’t getting everything for free.

  • Japanese Otaku are just mad that they’re being ripped off by anime companies who overcharge them for everything, so they go looking for someone to blame. Fortunately, for Japanese people every single problem has the exact same cause, the foreign devils.

    Sure you can argue that it’s morally wrong for people in another country to pirate, but it’s really just a philosophical debate. Americans pirating anime don’t have any effect on the Japanese market whatsoever. Most anime companies never made any significant amount of money in the US anyway, and anime in Japan was overpriced long before the internet and fansubbing even existed. Americans pirating anime don’t cost those companies anything, and if all overseas anime fans found a new hobby tomorrow, it wouldn’t help or harm most companies at all.

  • I can understand being angry at those who sub animes that English-speakers can buy in English. But honestly? It is the industry’s fault for not bringing the other, more lucrative and less-known titles overseas. I gott’a get my Kodomo no Jikan fix somehow!

  • What 2ch seems to be forgetting (or refusing to accept) is that the anime they have available on TV will probably never leave Japan, seeing as only a small percentage of what they have available eventually makes it to the US, and only a small percentage of what’s available in the US reaches Europe. If we lack the means to get it legally, then we do the second best thing, which still doesn’t hurt you at all since we DON’T have the means to buy them in the first place. Nothing won, nothing lost.

    On the other hand… Let’s say that we, “pirates”, took interest in a certain series, and comments on it spread online. US companies WILL pick up on this, and bring the series out of Japan. Now you’re starting to win something…

    Japan gets the money for selling it, the US gets the series and broadcasts it, and those who wish to support the official releases will buy the DVDs (like on Japan). Those who don’t, will simply record what’s on TV (like on Japan), or download from the internet if it’s NOT on TV. I’m still paying anyway, since I don’t have internet for free at home. Unfortunately. I pay my bills.

    …Oh, and bring me the evidence on how people in Japan don’t record what’s on TV or download anime from the internet… Please, I’ll be waiting.

  • My opinion on this has drifted over the years.

    The purpose of fansubs was to create demand for licensed productions of anime. This is why the tradition was to stop distribution after licensing. But in these days of ad-supported online simulcasts of just about everything current, I do believe fansubs are obsolete. It doesn’t help that modern ‘fansubbing’ looks more like cribbing someone else’s script, muxing it in and calling it yours.

    Don’t like the ads? There’s almost always a nice paid option, usually with some extras (like HD feeds) for ridiculously cheap. Want HD, free, ad-free and legal? Forget it; there’s gotta be a revenue stream for the producer or there’s no business case, and you’re a fool if you believe that these companies are making shows purely for the sake of the art.

  • tbh, i wouldnt have gotten into anime if it wasnt free.

    & while fansubbing, i dont recall a time i felt i was doing it for the benefit of the community. all i felt was the excitement of knowing the # of ppl who download the releases. & then being praised for it.

    same for scanlations.

  • So basically, this is what 2ch wants us “foreigners” to do:

    1. Learn Japanese
    2. Pay 100 bucks (or more if you count extra import charges) for each 2 episodes.
    3. Be willing to let anime companies violate us in all directions.

    What are we talking about, 2ch demands are very fair.

  • Fan subs are the only way I get anime. there are no stores that carry anime where I live and the only way to get it is to download it or order it online.

    every anime I have purchased I originally watched as a fansub.

    every anime I have watched as a fansub, and liked it enough to see more than 3 episodes, I have eventually purchased.

    I will not spend $100 for a season of a show I may not enjoy. if anime prices were in line with other tv shows maybe they would see more sales in the US.

    and in the end, if it’s not licensed in the US, downloading it is not illegal here.

  • Hmm…

    Shouldnt we worry about that big douchebag of Ishithara instead of flaming/blaming each other .
    Hope we all unite to save *anime* from the BIGGER/GREATEST evil. After all, we all in the end love the same thing right?

    We can do that right? For the things that are important to us… Right…?

    Meh we are screwed (T^T)

    Oh and hi Japan! Hope you doing fine too!

    • In a way, you’re correct. I mean, what’s worse, couple of fansubbers doing what they do with anime that some companies from the anime industry have some problems with, or a law that could drastically change everything in the anime industry that could severely changes things with the anime itself or completely make it gone.

      And for the record, I do buy the anime/manga and support the people who make them. I’m not stupid to NOT pay these mangakas cause I know they need the money as do we all. That’s all.

    • lolo “unite”
      Stop daydreaming..those slant-eyed dwarfs would rather commit sepukku than try to understand “outside world” and think past their xenophobia.

      The way it works…sh*t will get ruined, anime banned, manga burned like heresy tomes during inquisition times. And those bastards would most likely still rant on their backyard forum, blaming whole world for that.

  • Are they even thinking about who’s uploading the raws?

    Nooo, the Gaijin are totally flying over there in spy planes, airdropping, and putting raws on Perfect Dark and the likes for their Gaijin brethren.

    facepalm.jpeg

  • “They refuse to learn Japanese – just look at all the Japanese who learn English to watch their films. What spoilt brats.”

    Silly comment. I do know a good deal of Japanese by now, but I still need subs for words here and there.
    I had to learn English too, it is not my native language.
    Most Japanese use subtitles when they watch English movies.

        • Well it certainly helped me improving my english skills. And watching normal movies in english, too, of course. For my job and in my country it’s much more important to understand and speak english in a than japanese here in my country and so I’m glad I could and can still improve that buy just enjoying a hobby.

    • Kitsune9Tails says:

      Funny thing is, very few Japanese know any English beyond “hello” and “thank you”. Finding a Japanese (much less a 2ch NEET) who has actually kept up with their English after high school is pretty rare. Almost would have better luck finding an American who can speak fluent Japanese.

      2ch is amusingly hypocritical. On one hand, they tell gaijin to stay away and not pollute their pure society, then they turn around and demand all foreigners learn Japanese so we can watch cartoons (for 4x the money we pay for our own movies/TV series, by the way).

      Plus, for me (who IS learning), subtitles help check my understanding.

  • I really dislike that the American industry for anime distribution is 2-3 years behind the current market. And noone wants to get the anime here faster. What point is it to support companies in our Country, or any country that waits so long to get it done. I know there are mass amounts of red tape to file thru to get them to the US or any other country. But when it comes down to it, i HAVE to use fansubbed to get my current anime. i HAVE to watch current stuff. no reason to wait 2 years to get what i want now. and who’s f-n bright idea was it to cut episodes in half an post them that way? do it right or not at all… sheesh

  • American’s have to wait too long for Animes to be even be translated if we are lucky. Everything that get’s published over there doesn’t hit overseas which sucks. Fansubs do help promote shows because no ones goes out and buys shet on a whim. I don’t see why the company’s are even complaining because you can’t make money of a product you haven’t sold yet. Or are they really mad because we don’t spend 100 dollars on a 4 episode DVD just to try it.

  • The difference is, The Japanese Anime Industry supports overseas markets and has increased exports of Anime/Manga. Considering that they have trouble selling Anime/Manga in Japan itself, (The Tokyo Ban is one big reason) its not surprising. They can argue all they want, but alot of the anime they are arguing about were actually payed for an licensed by companies, even crunchyroll. Some Fansubbers even get royalties for showing commercials and trailers of other anime in between anime episodes, because it creates interest through advertising. People in 2ch keep thinking that all of this is done under a rock out of sight from them, when alot (not all obviously) of it is very much supported and encouraged. And yes Hollywood and Disney also have anti piracy laws and enforcements in effect. These paranoid 2ch guys dont actually realize how the world actually works beyond their man cave.

  • And the American anime localization industry is collapsed because of
    1) editing for content
    2) shit translations
    3) impotence in licensing good shows

    They’re useless and deserve to fail. Japanese production companies want filthy gaijin to stop watching? Not gonna happen. They might as well self translate and distribute to Western networks and stores.

      • I note that you use the word “potential income”.

        Let’s make a relevant imaginary example. I draw a short anime movie here in Sweden. I am poor, dumb and lazy so I only make 10 DVD’s of it and sell to my friends and family in the country. Someone decides to put it on youtube, it gets 1 million hits and my talent gets scouted into a real Animation-company in Tokyo.

        I did earn the 10 bucks from selling those DVD’s in small scale just like planned. But due due to Piracy I gained millions of potential costumers that never would have known about me or my anime. The new company that hired my talent produced a follow up anime translated into 10 languages and release simultaneously on the internet for a small fee. Because of the huge following we received thru piracy of previous products we earned millions. We weren’t greedy or disillusioned this time and certainly not lazy.

        Inserts happy ending here.

      • This is the same BS the RIAA is giving to justify suing you for a million dollars for downloading ONE song. Just because several thousand people have downloaded and listened to a song, doesn’t mean they all wanted to buy it in the first place. Maybe only one actually liked the song and decided to buy the artist’s album, while the others didn’t find it good enough.

        When you go buy a car, do you just pay the dealer and don’t bother to take it for a test ride to see if it drives to your satisfaction or ask if it has a history of malfunctioning? Pretty sure the answer is ‘no’. At the very least, you want to be sure the car performs the way you expect it and that it’s in perfect working order.

        It’s the same with anime. Some people will instinctively know what they’ll like by looking at a DVD cover and read the summary and/or reviews by others and just by it, others will need a bit of a push to buy. In Japan, most people have access to TV broadcasts of anime, meaning they know if they’ll like a show or not by watching it. Outside of Japan, we don’t have that option, so we resort to the next best thing: we download fansubs and base our opinion of a show on those. And some of us are more than willing to pay for a show we like, provided we get a chance to watch it first (and usually if it gets licensed there). Those who don’t would probably never have bought anything anyway and are therefor not lost ‘potential’ customers.

      • potential income? I only see that our country sell the animes, but make nearly never ad. for it? no real tv show for it? so they except that people would buy it without knowing it? .. sorry, but this is ridiculous. I think without subbing, they would have more costs with advertising and making extra more tv shows for it, which would end nearly the same as we have it now.

  • I don’t think there would be much anime fans if we were to wait for americans to liscense it then sub/dub it then release it at a very high price to the point where it becomes an exclusive hobby. not only that, we would be a year late on anime realeses.
    I reckon japan should be happy there are fansubbers around the world subbing their anime and pretty much promoting it, getting people to like it and subsequently buy other goods such as figurines and music.
    Pretty sure those americans are faggots trying to milk japan’s anime culture

  • Sounds like 2ch just made shit up and blamed the downfall of anime on us foreigners. Maybe if they stopped playing games and got out of their rooms, and maybe did something supportive like I dont know. PROTEST THAT RECENT TOKYO ANIME/MANGA BAN! which I have ever heard a peep of protest from everyday people. I will believe them then, right now they are just xenophobic hypocrites themselves.

  • How can someone be a thief for taking something thats not even sold? I mean I guess technically its stealing, but its not like anime companies are losing any money through it. If anything, they gain fans that may buy a localized version that comes out in a few years that wouldn’t wait 3 years for a show they never heard of without the fansubbing community.

    • Playing devil’s advocate, you can look at it both ways:

      1) Fansubs are Pirates because they steal future revenue of a show that is already distributed in countries, thus selling the foreign rights will be less.

      2) Fansubs help build brand recognition of shows that may not be considered for sale in other countries and could bring new revenue for shows originally only for a Japanese audience.

      Personally, I believe its number 2, a majority of the shows are made for a Japanese audience only. So anyone watching the show outside the country only adds to its brand recognition. They still already made money by TV time and future CD/DVD/BD sales.

      • Partly that is true. Before fansubs i liked anime but wasn’t as in to it as now. I’d buy one or two boxed sets a year, usually based on a recomendation or what was on the back cover. I never want to read the back of a DVD set and think its interesting only to get home and realise i bought Niea7 ever ever again. Now i know what is crap so as a cosumer i am more confident not to mention how much more into anime i am now. Long story made short, in the last 5 years i have bought over 4 grand of anime. Guess that counts as support!

  • “Having these people watch our anime might encourage more censorship. It would be best if they didn’t watch them.”

    then it’s no wonder crunchyroll didn’t simulcast anime such as strike witches to selected EU countries.

  • $70 for a few episode in japan seems normal, but in America, tv shows cost maybe $20-$30 on DVD for 12episodes. Anime here tends to cost $20 for four episodes, and while cheaper than in Japan, it is that comparison which results inns thinking that the price is high.

  • I dare any Japanese anime company to take the original episodes, hire translators and one editor (to make sure the result doesn’t sound like chinglish) to sub it, then post the result on website where people can either view it on a pay-per-view or subscription basis.

    Oh wait, that’s right, the Japanese can’t handle new ideas.

  • I don’t know who’s dumber. Me for not realizing that fansubbing was a for of piracy or them for being so blatantly delusional. I knew there had to be a reason I hated fansubs but now that I think about it, I don’t think this was it.

  • Illegal stuff is illegal and I won’t claim that fansubs are not illegal in most cases, but I think people could have some more empathy here.

    I’m not offended when I see Chinese fansubs of US television shows that I can watch for free OTA where I live because I know how expensive and impractical it often can be to import DVDs or Blu-rays from overseas. NTSC-U DVDs of US television shows are expensive, but nowhere near as expensive as Japanese anime DVDs or Blu-rays. When it comes to Japanese anime, for overseas buyers like me I would not only have to pay high shipping costs, but I would also have to wait until the show was finished airing and had a DVD/BD version available before watching.

    For shows that I already love I actually wouldn’t mind that. If I know that a show is worth shelling out USD300 to watch on BD, I would pay that if I had the money. However, it’s simply not reasonable to pay that much to watch a show that you are seeing for the first time. Domestic viewers can tune in and watch the show OTA for free on its first run. Then, if they don’t like it, they can decide to never watch it again.

    Look how much it would cost to buy a mediocre show like High School of the Dead: http://www.play-asia.com/paOScore/19-71-13z-49-en-15-high%20school%20of%20the%20dead-43-9.html

    That’s nearly USD400 for the series on Blu-ray, not considering shipping costs. This is the type of show that, after seeing one or two episodes, many viewers would probably drop. If my ONLY option for viewing a show, however, is by buying an expensive DVD/BD, then dropping shows is simply not an option. I would then only have the opportunity to watch shows that I knew were going to be stellar. I wouldn’t be able to give shows a chance for a few episodes.

    And another thing: download some share/PD raws with TCPViewer or similar open and you’ll see that about 90% of the connected peers are Japanese who probably could have watched the show over the air for free. Those guys have even less of an excuse than foreigners like me.

    • Those weebos are just RACISTs. They thought of themselves as superior. That’s how they got involved in WW II.

      From the talks, it seems like TV is not free in Western countries. But TV show is free in Japan and most east Asia countries. It’s ad-supported. You only need to buy the television and antenna.

  • Well, there’s no doubt fansubbing is illegal. But I support it for the most part. Overall it gets anime to the public. To a certain point though, they do hinder official anime releases. But rarely will someone buy an anime if they haven’t seen it. And if they’re not buying anime after watching it fansubbed, what makes you think they’ll buy it at all.

  • No fansubs = foreign people won’t know animes = they won’t buy anime dvd

    with fansubs = foreigners get to know anime = if they really like it they buy the dvd

    it’s not so hard 2ch, you can do it

  • Oh my god, what have I done?! How could I be so selfish?! I’m going to the shops right now to pick up Kaiba, Kemonozume, Denno Coil, Windy Tales, Mindgame… Wait, the series I want are not available to buy in the UK…

    Well, I got the japanese DVD for Mindgame a while back, simply because it had english subtitles on it, would not mind it on Bluray though. Tatami Galaxy is also coming out here on DVD, so don’t worry Japan, I’ll buy it.

  • I’m not certain where this places me but I remember learning about Genshiken through browsing on One Manga several years ago. Shortly thereafter I downloaded the first season, followed the fansubs online and subsequently downloaded the OVA and second Season. About 2 years after I had illegally collected every bit of the series I could find, I began hunting down the printed copies of the manga and over time bought all of the manga (including the sub-par Kujibiki unbalance manga. THEN after that several months later I went out and bought up both the season one and season two box sets.
    My heart swells with pride when I think about my collection and I can say with some degree of certainty that I would never have found out about or followed this amazing series had it not been for the availability of it illegally online. But I suppose to the 2Ch I will forever be a dirty Gaijin pirate no matter how much merchandise I purchase…

  • As a european fansub downloader I feel so left out in these 2ch vs US downloaders. You damn Americans are taking all the flak, can’t you people just share some of it sometimes…and yes that was obviously a joke :P.

  • *sigh* i dont deny what fansubbers to is piracy but its for the greater good….. i mean if it wasnt for fan subs i wouldnt own half my anime dvd’s like tengen toppa gurren lagann which is shit quality by the way and its a good job im learning japanese because the subtitles are terrible its probably better to turn them off and work out whats being said yourself.
    on a side note anime that are good and i enjoy i 90% of the time wont buy dubbed because the VA’s are crap soooo why cant i watch the subbed version then buy the dvd if i feel like supporting the industry.
    so point being i buy all the anime i like but it doesnt give me the right to download it but im obv going to anyway because im not waiting for the dvd to come out then for shipping

  • You know, most people take stuff for granted. I was like that before. Just watched anime with subtitles. But then a thought crossed my mind one day. If I’m gonna watch anime with original voicing (Japanese), then I should at least try to learn the language. With how it was before, it was pretty much like “Oh. Ok. Thanks.” But by trying to learn Japanese, I’m showing respect and gratitude towards the people who make it. Now that still doesn’t excuse the fact that anime takes forever to come out in America, but it does help give a valid idea of one reason why the Japanese may not like us.

  • The fact is that it really isn’t available enough and when that happens you have to expect pirates. When there are pirates it’s hard to appeal for a legitimate means. It’s quite the “Catch 22” if I’m using that term correctly. If somebody were to put up a useful website with ads that support the appropriate people it might work, but I can’t imagine how difficult that would be.

  • TL/DR: screw them, let them live a life without the privilege of the native language or home-country being japan or US(other native-english/japanes-speaking countries) that brodcasts stuff all day long!!

    companies give a shit about subs, every DVD i bought had bad timing issues NO QA what so ever and no translation effort, they just wait till someone made a horrible dub and get the speech2text parser on it to have bad sub under it … it is still a horror!
    no change there over now what? 15 years?! I’m talking anime here.

    I’m not a citizen of a natively english or japanese speaking country.
    translating in general is a problem! since longer then twenty years, since languages where translated there were quality issues!

    just a slice of pain on __US stuff__, every country in Europe dubs everything for most Spain and Germany, with some exceptions like the Dutch they put all their effort ONLY into subs (kid films, like cartoons, they more and more dub, badly)
    If you buy DVD/BD here you will find EN sub with OT EN dub and only one more sub for the local language or just the local dub and maybe one sub of some neighbor country … that local sub, most of the time, is badly translated from the EN sub or just speech2text of the local dub (some exceptions, the dutch! really they do good subs, but sadly it’s not my native language). In Germany or Spain you will most likely NEVER find subs they dub the hell out of everything, with bad voice cast and bad translation. No idea to why they ONLY dub.

    If I really want that stuff and not only just TV brodcast (if I would get that stuff from TV) or for rewatch purpose. First I buy merchandise of everything I can get my finger on, I already love it to watch it again and again, just to keep them happy with my money. BUT I get the fansubs, piracy; buy the damn DVD if it hits the local stores or have it shipped from oversea if it’s not raping my money with fees and currency rates, not piracy, well if that all fails and I have to wait months, I download, piracy; rip the damn thing BD/DVD-RAW or bought-DVD to get the piracy warnings and unskipable-commercials out of my away, breaking some local laws and of course piracy; and put it together with the ripped subs, piracy of the translation fansub pirates.
    Now I have a version of what I want. BUT wasted to much time and money and pirated and ripped and broke laws what so ever … but by then I have what is watchable AND readable and can rewatch it w/o enraging every 3 seconds.
    US or JP stuff is either way translation-crap here.

    So if the media-power countries like US or JP still think they can ride the mighty horse and spit from way high up down on me with their crap, screw them. I put way to much dollars and yen their mighty horses butt. And just – see TL/DR.

    and the 5 to 10 years of learning both languages to an extend that I can keep up with linguistic jokes is a pore answer. I prefer notes from locals that can explain it – fansubs lack there the same way as the companies.
    After that we can talk about creditcard RAPE ._.”’

    — sry, probably all over bad written english, still it’s better then the googletranslate version <_<'', my two cents —

  • Ok…While I DO understand their point of view let’s talk about my own situation. I live in Czech republic – not the biggest country in the world.

    In Prague, our capital city, we have + – 3 shops where you can buy manga (not talking about anime…there is one place where you can rent it) – about 4 titles really unknown and mediocre quality at the very best are available in Czech, another 5 mainstream ones in English. Of course as they are importend randomly you won’t get any real continuity (meaining you will have books 1,2,5,7,12 etc.)

    And now the funny math facts (I am sorry for the inconvenience, but I am too lazy to put it all in some money converter, so I am going to post it all in our currency). If you have good, steady job (neither the best one nor the worst) you have an income of more or less 20.000 Czech crowns per month. Cca 8.000 you spend on obligatories such as electricity, water, rent…

    Because the manga is imported from the UK (and pound is really much stronger than crowns) you pay around 500 for one book. Ergo: for 10 books of, let’s say Bleach, you would pay 1/4 of your monthly income.

    Now if you are student, you could afford up to 2 or 3 books – don’t forget you can pick from about 5 – 10 titles, no anime, no anime/manga goods at all.

    Therefore: I am very sorry, but I won’t spend all of my bloody money just to get few books of Bleach or Love Hina.

    When I went to Japan I did buy manga there (100 – 200 yen each in BookOff stores) and goods. I have tried to support industry even a little bit. But here it’s…well, maybe not trully impossible, but so inconvenient, that I simply prefer to just download it.

  • Another thought just crossed my mind. This time about 2ch. If they love anime so much, then how come they are doing something that would have anime collapse here in America as well as seperate Japan and America even more? I mean, if we eliminate the fansubbers, anime would become less popular here in America and that is one less thing of interest that many Americans and Japanese share.

  • Well most of the animes that are fan subbed are shown on TV in japan right? Then it doesnt matter that much as you dont pay at all or not much to watch anime on TV.
    But if they sub Blueray/DVD they lose a little money ofc.

    But everyone make it seem bigger than it is imo.

  • To be honest the publishers look at what is being pirated from there they find out what has the biggest following by finding out what is getting downloaded the most here in America after they do that they get the copyright from the Japanese companies and produce a official versions which usually the fans buy.

  • These people are somewhat stupid aren’t they? Do they not realize that most people who actually watch those fan subs then go out and order the anime straight from Japan, thus supporting the original damn market? The American market collapsed because it was pure F material. Maybe 2chan should try reading some professionally translated American licensed English manga. They will be sickened and enraged by how horribly it has been butchered.

    Research before you speak 2chan.

  • frankly I agree with the fansubbers, really the companies like funanimation should work with the fansubbers, seriously it takes years sometimes for stuff to reach me in europe. Without fansubbers be like 4 years behind with bleach and naruto animes or one piece. Plus funianimation cunts region block stuff so people in europe dont get it.

    Anime distributers need to sort themselves out they so behind, because the do all the bullshit dubbing that in the end sounds like garbage minus rahxephon dubbing which was incredible.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2koBUl-95U

    honestly, the market on anime in America is of fail simply because (just like many others said) translations by the so called ‘pros’ are pathetic and ruin the quality of the anime. It indeed does make them look like crap and give off the impression that anime isn’t even worth a second glance at by many of the American citizens. Personally, I prefer the fansubbing. The overall quality is kept intact and has a really good chance of bringing people into the world of anime by giving them better dialouge, virtually no editing to the anime itself [such as when someone gets cut in half, there will be plenty of blood as to where here in America it will be severly reduced and such (though I can’t say that is still the case since I haven’t watched any Americanized anime for some time now)]. I don’t mind waiting a week for something to be translated and aired or realeased in stores. But when it comes to something being like 100 something episodes or like 15 volumes behind, I’m gonna have to go with the fansubs. Not only will I remain interested (and am likely to spend money on things related to the anime), but I will also remain a fan. If there were no subbers, then the market on anime here in America would come to an end. Course I can’t go off entirely on the industry and such. American people are to blame as well since many of them simply see a cartoon (this is derived from me hearing from hearing I should stop watching cartoons time and time again). If many Americans learend how to actually see story, character development/setup, etc. then anime would be greatly appreciated here in America. Though that would solve the problem of anime popularity, that wouldn’t solve the fact that America is ran by the greedy (henceforth why anime is cheap here in America, which is good for us but in the long run bad since we’ll just keep getting greedier).

    I know that I said alot and there may be a good bit that was redundant, but damn it, it’s my opinion and how I feel about the situation.

  • Yeah im pirate but i like anime and i dont have any chance to buy it anime dvd here are horribly expensive usualy they cost 50-80 % more and thas fucked up since paychacks here are horribly low .

  • Japanese Otaku: “We are righteous… All other foreign otaku can go to hell.”

    Guess what? Pirates or no, you’re ALL otaku. Worse if they’re part of the jobless, basement-dwelling hikkikomori-kind. And who’s to say they don’t pirate their own nation’s products as well?

    Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy EVERYWHERE.

  • How many more animes are there in Japan that don’t come to America, or at least take a VERY long time? Yeah, I don’t give a damn about 2ch, most of the people there are just ignorant bastards that think anything we Americans do involving anime or manga is illegal and we are thieves. I’m not going to spend 5+ years of my life learning Japanese just so I can import something that probably won’t even be worth it, seeing as imports cost a lot.

  • I put most of blame on the American publishers. Issues are released too slowly and they blame it on translation problems! Holy Shit! Its not the Dead Sea Scrolls! When theyre 10 or 15 volumes behind the Japanese publisher I can’t wait that long, I’ll be dead! Even when they do publish a volume they localize the tranlation so I cant even tell its taking place in Japan any more! I just bought a copy of Osamu Tezukas “Ayako” which starts in 1949 and on the very first page a returning Japanese soldier is greeted by his kid brother with Yo Bro!, (give me a fucking break!!) At least the fan tranlation would be better tranlation than that!
    As far as anime is concerned most dubs suck because the voice actors and their directors really don’t give a shit. Delivery is either emotionaly flat or the timing is off. Japanese voice actors are trained to give a nuanced performance which seems to be lacking in English dubs. Its almost like they voicing Saturday morning cartoons for 6 year olds and whatever comes out is good enough.
    Until they start correcting some of thes issue fun-subbing will continue to flourish.

  • Since I started using NBA premium, watching NBA games that I only like.

    The solution to the Japan’s Anime Issue. Objective is for the international release. Counterpart of AT-X.
    1.Hire the fansubbers.
    2. 3 channels, Animax Premium (all new anime shows subbed in English simultcast release with some replays as well.) Animax Gold (all previously aired anime during the last three seasons) Animax Silver (all previously aired popular anime in the last five years)

    The cost should be similar to NBA premium so it won’t be that expensive since not every season there are good animes to watch for.

  • I came from 2ch. English is poor but listen.
    Anybody knows Rapelay issue? We got screwed because of people pirated. Because some of you pirated and made some noise, Rapelay became a serious problem. We got bashed from the world, called hentai or whatever. I can’t believe why you would do that.
    They play for free and paticipate to bash Japanese and to restrict our games.That’s absurd.
    Leave them lay, even you cannot accept in your culture.
    Have we ever blamed Manhant or other murder games American made?
    Our point is We really care to be restricted and controlled any kinds of games or Manga.

    • Sure go ahead an blame the foreign human right activist for all of it while your dear politicians continue to bow to every command the activists lay while licking their shoes.

      The issue you guys have is that your politicians are making easy popularity points out of content bans because you 2ch people barely unite anywhere outside the internet where any data can be easily dismissed as made up. We never see you guys do actual movements to go against all this. All you do is stay behind the anonymous walls of your forums, sign an (online) petition or two and leave all the work to the game makers who are already vulnerable to media outcry.

      Go ahead and prove me wrong.

  • Dubs are a non-issue – most anime viewers prefer the original japanese dub anyways, so the western companies shouldn’t use it as an excuse.

    English subs can be fast and fansubbers prove an almost simultaneous release IS possible. If the western ditributors did their jobs, people wouldn’t make buying anime DVD’s and such a “secondary market”.

    I for one, enjoy owning original DVD’s and Manga, but i also download fansubs for the simple reason that they’re faster and i can watch a series at the same time it’s being released.

    Additionally, if it’s a TV-rip everyone can go screw themselves – if the channel was available ouside of Japan, people could watch it for free anyways.

    In the end – Fansubbers are a necessary evil for the western anime industry to evolve; 2ch is a bunch of nationalist idiot trolls.

      • Ok, you know what?

        You’re being a fucking prejudiced biggot.

        I’m Portuguese, and i only download anime and manga when it’s not available for official purchase.

        You probably hate american comics, being the fucking racists you are – but imagine wanting to read a Spider-man comic and the only way is to import from america and reading in english, when you don’t speak english – IT SUCKS.

        Globalization implies ease of world distribution and could make the business a whole lot of money and the only reason it doesn’t is BECAUSE YOU FUCKERS CLOSE UP INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION.

        You might hate us all you want, but i don’t give a shit – i love japanese culture, anime, manga, music, art, videogames and even the people.

        You are the racists, not us. You’re the ones with “no-gaijin bars” – i dare you to find any public place in the world where they wouldn’t let a japanese in.

  • WHY are you jugde ppl in 2ch is pirate?
    And,If someone pirate,you are allowed pirate?
    please stop to yelling like a kid.
    EVERYONE must subjected to low.
    sorry my poor english.but plz think a lot as an adult.

  • Japanese Dubs are not bad, but since im living in Germany, i have to say some Dubs were really good back then.
    Like Dragonballz and C.Bebop and the like.
    I also enjoyed Gungrave in German since the VA´s just did a wonderful job.
    In the End its a personal opinion about JPvsUSvsGer Dubbing.
    Some people are saying JP is superior sometimes, but i have to disagree with it, since localized Animes are also good.
    It only depends on the VAs and their experience.
    Well, thats what i think.

  • I will only comment that I pay an expensive bill for cable tv, and they have
    taken away almost all anime shows, starting with Cartoon Network ,Nickelodeon, Jetix (Now Disney XD) to even Animax.
    I have Animax and what do they broadcast? Beverly Hills 90210! I agree the Japanese are right on their remarks, but they had much of the blame by not caring of the audience. i also remember around 10 year ago trying to buy anime related products and they would simply say they don’t ship here.
    so i really feel they should rethink carefully their distribution methods. online distributing is a monster, but one they helped creating.
    Also here we have a huge following for anima shows, it started around 10 -15 years ago with shows like Dragon ball and Sailor Moon, and they had a chance to
    make a profit out of it by pleasing us the audience by contracting and rehiring the original voice actors which we love dearly, but Toei for example only looks to hire the cheapest voice actors, even though are voice actors are payed very low fees as is common knowledge. and half the shows dubbed were a disgrace just because almost every anime distributor preferred to go for the cheapest of
    voice actors and trashing their own products.
    So i think they should also analyze how they have treated their audience. after all we are their market.

  • Come on! The fansub scene is dying, if not already dead, since the establisment of Crunchyroll and so on. What’s left are the socalled subrippers who do not translate the anime themselves.

    On the other hand, anime and manga was never so popular when there are no fansubbers and trans-/scanlators, and not because of some half-assed companies like the TokyoPop, Funimation etc.. who don’t care about the correct translations/interpretation of the original Japanese version, since they think anime and manga are just stuffs for kids, so who cares about the correctness of these Japanese media. Not to mention all the censorship of “violence” etc. in One Piece, they even censored Pokemon for Christ’s sake, while turning Japanese characters into Caucasians, for example Detective Conan (turned into “Case Closed”) where all characters have an English name now.

    Why are the Japanese companies in the anime industry still licensing their product to these half-assed American anime-/mangapublishers who do not give a shit, and only cares about the money they could get through these licenses; if they can’t make money out of them they just dropped the DVD releases of these anime series when you just need one or two DVDs to complete that particular anime series. Yes, the legitimate buyers who are buying these anime series on DVDs and or Blu-ray discs are punished by these companies, not because they steal things, no, they buy them with their hard-earned money.

    I guess the current anime business will be even more difficult since legal ways to watch anime are there now, e.g. Crunchyrolls, so the anime DVD business will be gone in several years. In the meantime, lets hope Crunchyroll gets rid of the region restrictions and provide better (video) quality anime series and services.

  • HE HE HE HE HE HE I don’t know about the rest of you but as much as there were ishithara’s in the making there was also those who were slowly but surely accepting and understnading they’re slow yeah but ehhh ha ha ha give them 4 more years its not like we care what they think anyway

  • Wow, so many comments trying to argue with this article and it hasn’t even been posted for very long.

    I pirate anime. I’m not going to excuse myself and act like I’m not doing anything wrong. Nothing I can say will excuse myself from what I will continue to do.
    …but at least I’m not a delusional pirate like the numerous commentators above and below this post.

    • I’m not going to lie, 4kids has ok voice actors(I honestly prefer One Piece 4kids dub or Funimation, because all I hear is Dragonball Z ccharacters), but the fact that they have to censor EVERYTHING ruins every single show for me. Like recently, watched DBZ on 4kids to see what it was like. I mean, BLUE MR. POPO? I don’t even care their reasoning, he is BRIGHT AS HELL and he hurts my eyes.

  • “In a little while this thread will be translated and made into an article on some foreign site, and they’ll leave out the inconvenient stuff above and just start a huge flamefest.”

    And then someone will translate all of our comments, leave out the anti-fansub ones and post them on 2ch and the entire thing will just turn into a big flamecycle.

    Seriously.

    I can’t say I really approve of fansubs. Since CrunchyRoll, from what I understand, works WITH anime companies now, I will watch stuff there, but I do intend to buy it. I’ll buy Panty and Stocking if there’s ever a DVD release here.

    Fansubbers really are thieves, especially those that ask for donations or other forms of payment. Being an animation student myself, I can say that animators don’t make a lot of money and it can be hard to find work.

    Knowing this, I can’t watch fansubbed anime. It’s terribly disrespectful to those that worked on it, from character designers to tweeners.

  • Download anime isn’t incompatible with buying DVD…
    I’m French, I download a lot of anime and i also buy DVD every month (1 or 2 anime per month recently).
    But the market in France is different i think.

  • don’t forget about the merchandise … profit from animes usually comes from merchandise, not the dvds … and thats why they usually find sponsor for making animes …

    so more people watch the anime more merchandise can be sold … and non-japanese otakus are usually type B otakus that support the anime they like by buying the merchandise like toys, bag, games, etc

    and these customers won’t buy any merchandise from anime they never watched before … they need a link … the fansubber …

    so if you ask “Fansubber support the anime studios?”

    YOU ARE 100% CORRECT

  • Did any of you read the comments? You call 2ch ignorant but they are right.

    No anime market in the US? Ever thought that the reason for that might be because people are downloading anime instead of buying it? Why would American companies sub/dub anime for a market that doesn’t exist?

    Maybe if you went out and bought some DVDs, these companies could re-invest that money generated from those sales in order to license and release more shows, quicker, with more talented translators/voice actors. It’s simple economics.

    Fansubbing has gone beyond spreading the format and is now damaging to it. People just can’t see it. You think that “Oh, I won’t buy the DVDs because this fansub is good enough quality” but what happens if every fan thinks the same? To you, it’s only one person with that view. You can’t rely on others.

    • Did you ever ask yourelf.. why is there no anime in the US? It’s because they don’t fucking sell it here dumbass. You need to create a market before you can destroy it and Japanese companies are horrible at tapping the US market and the people here that could do it, don’t.

      What point are you missing in this? If we can not view the product, have no access to the product, never are told of the product, how the hell do we get it legally?

    • With all the hype on the popular series, they STILL use the same horrid VA’s for dubs…

      Also you can’t sell what no one knows about, and I GUARANTEE that you won’t see a commercial on any major stations for an anime in America.

      I’ve only experienced one good dub which was Chobits, all others were earbleedingly boring to the point that I simply stopped paying attention to an otherwise decent show.

      Bad/No Delivery = Bad/No Results

    • Well I buy some dvd releases. But there are certain points I WON’T accept. Take the Bandai DVD’s of Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam. Great quality, yeah…like a rats ass. Then there are fansubs of japanese BluRays. Now what would you do, buy the dvd’s and selfenying you the top notch quality you could have? I have found a compromise in buying the dvd’s second hand and getting the fansub anyway and I thank the subbers very much that I can watch the series in a quality it deserves. Although I can understand if someone wouldn’t buy those garbage quality dvd’s.

  • They only think it’s piracy because they don’t want foreign scum to participate in “their” cutlure. AT ALL. It’s 2ch we’re speaking about. If westeners would buy all their anime they would start and complain holy japanese only culture would be sold out to dirty foreign scum etc.

  • Its funny but why is 2ch’s reaction to almost anything seen as so important? 2ch flames and trolls, and thats all it ever does. You can bet more than 50% of those guys flaming the fansubbers are anime downloaders themselves.

    Can we get over it? To ignore 2ch that is.

  • Fuck you 2ch!

    Anime in German speaking countries is a miserable pile of shit. Here is a list what’s running right now and the time slots:
    06:10 Nils Holgersson
    06:35 Biene Maja
    07:40 Yu-Gi-Oh!
    10:30 Marco
    11:00 Niklaas, ein Junge aus Flandern
    11:25 Anne mit den roten Haaren
    12:05 Wickie und die starken Männer
    12:55 Pokemon
    13:00 Biene Maja
    14:00 Bakugan Battle Brawlers
    14:45 Beyblade – Metal Fusion
    14:50 Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D`s
    15:20 Naruto Shippuuden
    15:45 Naruto Shippuuden
    16:05 One Piece
    17:00 Yu-Gi-Oh!
    19:00 Wickie und die starken Männer
    22:35 Bakugan Battle Brawlers

    Do you see this shit?
    There’s even Shōnen-shit like Bleach missing, which is a feat.

    Then add bad dubs, censorship to appease 5 year olds and a lag of hundreds of episodes behind to it and you got your “Anime” program.

    Also you pay a yearly fee in Germany and Austria to public television for having any device that is remotely capable of receiving TV or radio – even if you only watch free TV, they drive around in buses with measuring instruments and bust your ass.
    In 2013 the fee will be replaced with a general tax in Germany that every household has to pay, even if you have NO device at all at home. So stfu about TV being free.

    And a last fuck you for saying no one in the west buys DVDs and Blu-rays. Why would anyone, if they only offer this badly dubbed and censor-butchered shit years later?
    How many Japanese are there who only watch the shows on TV and never buy a disc or merchandise? I’ll hazard a guess: A LOT!

  • Well I know that fansubing is piracy bu I use it anyway, in my opinion the worst problem is the delay of official releases.

    The american and european markets need to wait some time sure but other places like here in Brazil need to wait forever! Take the case of Haruhi for exemple it is very famous and it is not a anime whith problems like to much echi like Strike Witches or other but to this date NOTHING of Haruhi has come to Brazil, no anime, no manga, no light novel!

    I can speake some english (very bad as you can see in this lines) and could use a version whith english subtitles (a english dub would be almost beyond my capabilites)but and the lot of brazilians anime fans who just speake portuguese? Thay are stuck with portuguese fansubs, there is no other option!

  • i agree with them, but over here is hard to get anime legally or way too expensive, i supported the animax channel but it failed for getting 4Yo series(payed a lot more for cable),now internet is the only way i have.

    also most of raw providers are japanese(or living there)so i think is mostly a local problem.

  • RaspberryKisses says:

    i support funsubs without them i wouldn’t be an otaku and buy all those expensive figures, J-rpgs, and all those trips to Japan. Yes i don’t pay for my anime and some of my manga. but i pay for goods and trips to japan. it’s a win win situation.

  • “Even in Japan there are scumbags who sub western films and then upload them, and get treated like gods for doing it.”

    And I completely respect this. They are not “scumbags” at all. Also, downloading a fansub is not equal to not buying. I have spent hundreds of dollars very recently on anime and manga. Over $1000 this year. And the Japanese channels which broadcast these programs, are not available in my area. Japanese people have a choice between watching the shows on television, and buying the DVDs. And they are able to immediately watch them, even sooner than the fansub downloaders.

    If Japanese people get to see them soon, so should non-Japanese. They don’t deserve to have an advantage for watching anime just because they were born in Japan.

    As for learning a language, I think that learning a language just to enjoy a media, is one of the silliest reasons to learn a language I’ve ever heard in my life.

  • “Even in Japan there are scumbags who sub western films and then upload them, and get treated like gods for doing it.”

    And I completely respect this. They are not “scumbags” at all. Also, downloading a fansub is not equal to not buying. I have spent hundreds of dollars very recently on anime and manga. Over $1000 this year. And the Japanese channels which broadcast these programs, are not available in my area. Japanese people have a choice between watching the shows on television, and buying the DVDs. And they are able to immediately watch them, even sooner than the fansub downloaders.

    If Japanese people get to see them soon, so should non-Japanese. They don’t deserve to have an advantage for watching anime just because they were born in Japan.

    As for learning a language, I think that learning a language just to enjoy a media, is one of the silliest reasons to learn a language I’ve ever heard in my life.

  • if fansubbers are the reason of collapse of american anime market, then do even better than. no use blameing anime lover who want the fastest, better sub to watch.

    I lol’ed on they are playing a lot more than us, yes.

    on 3DS and love plus that is

  • am I seeing this correctly? are all trying to JUSTIFY THIS SITUATION? Are you all fucking 3 years old? The fact is simple, this is a form of piracy. With that said though, because of these acts, is why the anime industry was able to become so big. One of those gray areas. Though, the truth is that it’s illegal, and SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED.

    • Hey, I’m cool with getting official releases.

      But the question is this: Is the industry getting the titles here? Promptly?

      Like I said earleir, the industry, at least here in the USA, is usually terribly, terribly late. Years, years, and years. And if it isn’t a high-profile, “Flavor of the Month” type of show, you will never see it officially brought over.

      So, if the industry just refuses to adjust when clearly there is a fanbase waiting for releases, WTF do you want us to do?

      Wait 10 years and keep praying the stuff comes over if it hasn’t still?

      Hell no.

      If the industry won’t support the fanbase, then, like I said, the fanbase will support itself.

      Fansubbers came out in a time when the support wasn’t at all there. Even in recent years, the support has been shoddy at best. Again, esp. if you are interested in a more obscure title. Since the industry support *still* isn’t there, then the community will continue to support itself.

      Because that’s what it’s been doing the entire time. And Fansubbers are an expression of that.

      Like it or not, that’s the way it is. Because quite oftenly, the fans out here are left to dry to begin with. Always has been.

      I mean… why the hell do you think fans outside of Japan have to usually order anime goods from stores in Japan to begin with?

      Why? Because the support for all intents of purposes was never there to begin with in the USA. The support is miniscule or for the majority of areas, nonexistent.

      So again, we’ll take care of ourselves if the indsutry refuses to do anything but b*tch and moan.

    • Just like pirating music, ebooks, and games should not be tolerated. But that’s where the logic is flawed, it will always be tolerated. For example, Microsoft, from my understanding, was the first to release an OFFICIAL way of ripping your music CDs to the computer, which only helped piracy. Since there many companies (including Japanese companies) have produced methods to rip music and many other products to computer. Point: Piracy has been around forever and will continue to be no matter what. Compare to Terrorism, even if you stamp out all the terrorist groups in the world, Terrorism will still exist because its a word, not a specific individual. Everyone Pirates to a degree.

      The problem in Japan are people like Ishihara where Japanese people blindly follow the corrupt and the idiotic. Do Japanese not think for themselves? Do they not invoke their own rights? Why don’t they get their own heads out of their asses and realize that things are way bigger than that tiny island in the Pacific. Being a world power means things a country says or does affects other countries. Japan has yet to realize this because they only care for themselves.

  • TheSwordUser says:

    I think its still more legal than,say, having fansubbers making their own DVD with downloaded anime an selling that on black market for profit, because “It would never’ve been officially released over here anyway”.

    Also, if comes to DVDs and BDs, don’t forget about one thing: Region Locking.
    I won’t buy something that can’t be technically played in my region w/o buying another DVD/BD player just for that.
    So it would get even more expensive with already overpriced animes (like 80 bucks or more for an hour worth of screen time, what kind of deal is this?!). Sorry, but only limited ammount of people can actually support the industry with bollocks prices like that.

    Btw, I bought entire DVD set of Shakugan no Shana (1st season) for maybe 40 dollars. That was about 2 years ago.

    40 dollars for 24 episodes
    OR
    80 dollars for 2 episodes

    Isn’t it bloody obvious that it’s just not worth the price (even if it’s full of tits or whatever)?

    And besides, you think WHY I’ve even decided to buy that DVD set in the first place? If it wasn’t for fansubbers I wouldn’t be even aware of existance of this series.

  • I’m not an American, but the Japanese sure can be hypocrites sometimes. I know this ROM site that’s apparently very popualr among Japanese speakers, the top search entries always have “JPN” in them (mostly DS titles).

    Besides, I’m sure many of them pirate anime as well. They don’t need the subs, so they probably get the raws/subbed anime and turn off the subs.

  • “‘Japanese must distribute anime freely at the same time as it airs in Japan – if they don’t, fansubbing will continue forever.’”

    This is correct, it’s the same with anything the world over, whether it be games, movies or anime. People in one part of the world don’t want to have to wait longer for something they know others are already getting elsewhere. Obviously the point of getting anime for nothing doesn’t seem right, but if you think about it, if there were no fansubs the anime producers would be no better off as there’d be no real way for US and Europe to obtain it. It’s like laying claim to money that you’ve not even made yet.

  • Why can’t they see things from our perspective? There’s no way all animes out there that are fansubbed will get released in the US. The chances fall when thinking about other countries.
    Isn’t anime produced to enjoy it, no matter where you live and what language you’re speaking? Oh, it seems not to be the case, they produce it for money.

  • At least you all CAN buy something official…
    Here, in my country, which has been nominated as the third highest piracy country, I buy a game which I though official only to be disappointed because when I go online it said that my CD-key is invalid…

    Hell, why should I buy a pirated product when I can get it free?
    My policy always buy the official when it available (One Piece, the manga though not the anime, for example)…
    But what I suppose to do when it isn’t even exist?

  • The problem 2ch is not understanding is that the majority of anime is not released anywhere in the world. You have to wait years for an anime to get released in the US, and even then it’s not guaranteed that it will be the one you want.

    They talk about if we would feel the same way if they subbed Western Cartoons and Disney films…Well they don’t have to because those films have been and are released in Japan.

    I can’t blame 2ch for their comments, but I don’t think they understand the circumstances.

  • CLEARLY we should apologize to 2Ch for not being a community of pussies who bend to the will of asshole masters. Please excuse us for not paying $80 for two episodes of blu-ray moeblob.

    If it weren’t for fansubs and scans, I would’ve dropped anime already and put my money into games. My interest in it is dying enough already with all the moeblob shit that gets made all the time.

  • my favourite part was the guy comparing learning japanese to learning english as if both were equally useful and widespread languages.

    There is a large difference in learning a language that is pretty much usefull in any civilised part of the world as well as the main language in programs etc (English) and learning A language that is mainly spoken into one tiny part of the world and can help to understand untranslated video games manga and anime (and it is insanely harder language to learn too).

    funsubbing is not a purelly legal activity but the guys who do it normally do not even get any profits for it.

    Unlike pure piracy of things avialable on the same language as the end user the fault fistly lies on the publishers who make a rotten job or nothing at all at making their work available overseas

  • I’m not sure about the economics of it all but we do have DVDs and stuff here for sale at localized prices which is affordable to the people living here.

    If their anime was available here with that same system I wouldn’t mind grabbing the DVDs as they come out just to support the anime company.

    Asking me to order a DvD online at the cost of half my salary is a bit much.

  • I’m not sure about the economics of it all but we do have DVDs and stuff here for sale at localized prices which is affordable to the people living here.

    If their anime was available here with that same system I wouldn’t mind grabbing the DVDs as they come out just to support the anime company.

    Asking me to order a DvD online at the cost of half my salaray is a bit much.

  • Living in the UK fansubbing is the only way to get ahold of some of the more obscure titles and its a hell of alot more freindly on the pocket, Take Full Metal Alchemist…in the UK it was initialy released as a 13 dvd colection and at £20 per DVD a total of £260 was definetly not worth the money, if i had watched the fansub i would still buy it but only as a boxset…if they are that worried about how fansubbing affects their sales then they should seriously think about improving the quality of anime rather than the almost hentai crap thats floating about.

  • All the arguments fansubbers make seem to be moot points . If ALL anime was readily available would they stop ? No . If anime was legaly advertised as much or more than fansubbing could would they stop ? No . I think it’s a little naive to think that fansubbing exists solely because the anime industry is lacking . I agree with the poster who stated that fansubbing needs to be taken more seriously and get cracked down for good .

    • The collection of official anime DVDs I have begs to differ. But I view the Fansubs because the industry isn’t doing crap in bringing the titles I want over.

      Like I said in my earlier comment, when can I even begin to *hope* they even *start* porting over the following to the USA?

      Macross Zero
      Macross Frontier
      Legend of Galactic Heroes

      Any idea?

      No?

      They’re not doing anything about it. Legend of Galactic Heroes is a huge series but was released decades ago. You want to take bets as to when LOGH is going to get released? How about within the next decade? Hmm?

      Like I also said in my previous comment, the amount of stuff that DO get official releases here is miniscule. And frankly, I got tired for a long time seeing the only official releases were DBZ and Yu-gi-oh.

      What this means to me is this: The shows I want are never getting official releases. It’s pretty damn apparent when years lapse after a show is released / completed and there’s no hint of an American release.

      So in other words, screw you. The community will take care of itself since the industry just wants the money without really doing much in providing the service.

      Believe it or not, we do like trying to watch other anime that isn’t only DBZ or Yu-gi-oh.

  • I’ve lurked on this site for a long time. Anyways…

    I’ve been a fan of anime since I was a kid. When I was a kid in the Philippines in the late 70s, I recall watching stuff like Voltes V, Daimos, and Mazinger Z. Coming to America and growing up here in the 1980s, I later got into Macross (courtesy of Robotech then seeing the original JP ver years later). Also watched these Americanized titles: Battle of the Planets, Capt.Harlock, Starblazers. Loved them. But you know what? That’s all I got as far as anime for the entire decade of the 1980s. Pretty damn hard to get anime in the USA in the 1980s and even the 1990s.

    Anyways, I support anime when I can by getting the bonafide DVDs / Blu-Rays, and various artbooks. I’m more than happy to fork over money for official products. I’m an old school guy. I prefer having an official, hard copy of something.

    I’ve heard about the Fansubbing issue, knew about them since the mid-late 90s. Fansubbers really started in the late 90s from what I recall. In the days when the industry practically gave no support to fans (at least here in the USA). Naturally, it was up to the fans to take care of themselves since the industry barely lifted a finger to help. Titles were very few. I’ve been pretty neutral about it, especially about the legality of it these days. But I want official releases, but there lies the problem.

    Anime takes FOREVER, several years after a show is done in Japan before you even hear about it beginning to be brought to the USA. But you know what? In all likeliness, if a show, especially if it isn’t a big-name title / series, or just not as well known in the USA, will likely never, ever, EVER even come in an official fashion to America.

    Tell me, when can I even begin to see official releases of Macross Zero and Macross Frontier over here in the USA? Macross DYRL? How about Legend of Galactic Heroes? Hmm? When? Will it ever happen?

    There are alot of shows fans here would like to get a copy of. The anime industry lags years and years behind or they never even bother.

    So, you still insist I buy some official DVD / Blu-Ray / CD / etc.?

    GREAT, I’D LOVE TO. Just give me an actual official release in decent time. Or hell, how about putting English subtitles in those official Japanese blu-ray releases? For those of us that prefer original Japanese voices and subtitles? Also considering that Japan and the Americas are in the same Region Code these days with Blu-Ray? And still release a later package with English dubs / voice-actors for the dub inclined fans? I know dubbing takes alot more work.

    No, the industry in Japan isn’t going to do that, are they? We sure as hell aren’t getting the support on these shores. Well, if so, then the fans will take care of ourselves like we’ve been doing since the 1980s and 1990s.

    America, like other places, has some hardcore anime fans. How the hell do you explain us bothering to buy artbooks, magazines, etc. written in a language that by far most of us can’t even read? 😀

    The industry in both sides of the “pond” of the Pacific isn’t giving the fans, at least here in the US, the prompt support… or any support at all. It’s been that way. Always. It has gotten better in recent years, but there’s far, far too many shows that people want to get into but officially CAN’T.

    And so we got the Fansubbers. Just an ultimate expression of the fans taking care of their own community, because the companies will not do so.

    So, are we left to fend for ourselves?

    Fine.

    We’ll take care of our own, then.

  • Yeah, it’s easy to judge when you have all those manga and DVDs in your country, when you can just go and buy it, when it’s broadcasted in your TV for free or small fee.
    Where I live, there’s less than 20 manga titles available to buy. What am I saying? Half of those is MANHWA! DO NOT WANT! D: I’ve bought those few manga I’m interested in and waiting for new titles or volumes of those I have – if there are any.
    With anime, it’s even worse. I buy what I can so I have like one DVD set and five other DVDs with anime movies or OVAs. That’s like 70% of all the anime market here. I wanted to buy Elfen Lied DVD set but it was sold out before I even could! And they won’t sell it anymore. T-T
    The few shows in our TV is usually Bleach, Naruto, Inu Yasha and very few others. Some of them are not even worth watching like Parappa the Rapper or Dogtato-kun (dog that is a potato in real) for example – what the hell is that supposed to be? What a joke!
    Merchandise is rare and usually in terrible quality. I bought some Sakura and Syaoran mousepad in the only eshop here which focuses on anime and manga and damn, what a piece of crap! Absolutely not worth the money, it didn’t even work properly. I didn’t even know that mousepad can not to work properly until I bought this thing.
    The few quality figures we have here are beautiful…. but overpriced as hell. My wallet will bleed one day if I buy one of them.
    Maybe it would be cheaper for me to buy anime and manga related stuff from foreign shops but I’m worried about the shipment and reliability.

    Damn you 2ch, you have NO IDEA!

  • For the people who support fansubbing, I’d have to say I don’t sympathize with you at all. Fansubs kill the market.

    But there are 3 problems with Japan getting anime to America.

    1. It takes too long for the anime to come to the US in good quality subs. By the time it does, it’s usually out of the popular circle in Japan.

    2. When it does reach the US it’s often butchered, or localized extensively. Though it has gotten only slightly better.

    3. American subtitles and dvd’s are crap video quality. They are very pixilated.

    And as for Crunchy Roll. Yeah it sucks I agree with the Japanese. But Crunchy Roll never pirated Japanese anime, they hosted it. Then they got a clue and realized it was wrong to do this. So now they are working along with Japanese TV networks to air anime. Their subtitles are still crap though.

    So what do I have to say. Fansubs are bad, but the American industry isn’t really up for quality items, aka dvd releases. They sell at cheap rates and are produced cheaply. With a budget they use no wonder the subtitles aren’t crisp or video quality is fuzzy. Upping the price probably won’t help now but had they done this in the very beginning perhaps the American industry would have had a better budget to produce better quality.

  • Cry moar Japan, cry moar!
    With your declining birth rates, and significance as an economic power China will rape your little island in the next century or so, and then you will be forced to grovel and beg one race of hairy gaijin to save your cherry from another!
    Obviously you either adapt to the times or you go the way of the dinosaurs. Dear Japan, you need to google “globilization”, “racism”, “net neutrality” and get with the times…

  • Xenophobic and ass-backward lot, aren’t they?
    If it wasn’t for us hairy gaijin they would still be playing around with swords like cavemen… and they wouldn’t have western technology like say the very internet they are using to clog up that sewer known as 2ch with their shitty opinions…

    I don’t understand how they can have a reputation of being friendly, pleasant and respectful peoples when they are so racist, spiteful and fast to throw blame around. Instead of blaming the overseas market (a market which hasn’t ever brought significant profit to anime publishers – because it wasn’t taken seriously) for the decline of the anime industry they should get on the publisher’s backs and tell them to start making quality anime, not that moe-moe shit… The Japanese have stopped buying anime, not us dirty gaijin because we’ve never bought anything to begin with, isn’t that right? Maybe if Japanese publishers started to target us hairy gaijin as customers and treat us with due respect we filthy gaijin will bail out your crippled industry!

    Still there are a few who manage to stay objective and logical:

    “It’s also true that without fansubs anime wouldn’t have spread overseas like it did. And there are a lot of people like this in Japan itself.”

    – That is the most important point. Without fansubs anime would have never gathered global interest such as it has now.

    “Even without having a fee system, they can still make something by advertising on the videos, can’t they? It’s not a huge effort for the producers to sub and provide official versions of their anime with minimal lag. It’s better than just having everyone watch them for nothing.”

    – The publishers themselves should air their anime on their own websites (not Crunchyroll). If done correctly they can make significant money just from advertising… It’s better than nothing in any case!

    “Even at ¥980, this season’s crop of moe anime would never sell 100,000 copies. US prices for anime are from half to a tenth of what we pay – but the market is still collapsing.”

    -Well yeah… Who would pay actual money to buy that shit? Besides a virgin Japanese hikikomori anime otaku that is…

    Mostly stupid comments though:
    “If Japan treated Disney cartoons and Hollywood movies like they treated our anime, the US government would go ballistic!”

    -Hollywood movies are the most widely torrented files you retard! Not Japanese anime! And for all their bitching, publishers still can’t do jack-shit about it! You are totally clueless.

  • “So far they have been saying this:
    ‘Japanese must distribute anime freely at the same time as it airs in Japan – if they don’t, fansubbing will continue forever.’
    So some Japanese makers tried to accommodate them even with their meagre budgets.
    They distributed the Tower of Druaga free on YouTube.
    What happened? The fansubbers ripped off the subs and began distributing their own version in higher resolution.
    Ore no Imouto was also being simulcast in the US.
    What happened? The show was leaked online before it even aired, and then redistributed and they hastily cancelled the whole thing.
    They try to make out as if they are benevolent volunteers. But really their morals are completely absent.”

    Well… He got a point.

  • I support the anime industry by buying anime toys of shows I’ve downloaded, and the eventual US DVDs of shows I really like. Most of my money goes to Figma and Revoltech.

    At least I’m giving you assholes in Japan whatever I can afford!

  • Ive decided to read more of these comments..

    God… these people are stupid. Talking about talking out of their ass without knowing anything. Its almost troll-like too. I bet you if they understood the story from the other side, they would regret saying what they did.

    Does 2ch get sankaku?

  • Anime subs are almost always better fan-made anyway. Not to mention the fact of RELEASE DATES.

    Anime have pretty slow release dates when comparing english to japanese.

    But manga? FORGET IT.

    Manga comes out at least 1-2 YEARS behind. Also not mentioning the fact that stores RARELY carry any good seinen.
    ———————
    I’d rather not order anime, wait a week to get it, and be paying just as much as I would in time for going to the movies.
    ————————-

    Sure fansubbers are hypocrites, but everyone appreciates there service. The anime industry is putting out so much moe anime its sad, and i’d rather not pay to see that crap.

  • Has everyone forgotten that NISA is releasing Toradora subbed in the states? In any case, I think subs are overall beneficial. Subs should mostly stop if the anime industry picks up its game and allow foreigners to watch shows within 1 week of original broadcast.

    • Yeah but keep in mind Anon, its been almost a year since Toradora was licensed. Feb 02, 2010 was the date of the article that ANN has. Fansubs can get a series fully subbed quicker than that. Why does it take NISA a year or more to sub a series? They’re not even putting a dub track on it from my understanding.

  • We live in a society where if it isn’t a physical object and you aren’t getting it for free, people will steal it. This is not restricted to anime in any way. I agree with what one of those 2ch guys said the one about the world being connect by the Internet and how you ave to do a simultaneous release otherwise interest is lost. By the time it hits the shores everyone already pirated it and saw it. I also feel the pain of the Japanese people because here in Australia, buying a game at the store (and even steam now!) is around 90-110 dollars.

    Americans really don’t know how good they have it.

    • It’s not that we have it good, its because you guys allow for such exhorbent prices. Each economony is different. Everything is cheaper here in the U.S. because the dollar was strong up until a couple years ago. Now prices have been going up on alot of domestic products like manga and anime because the dollar as weakened. That arguement how “America has it easy” is wrong. How about you guys come and live in America for a while and truly see whats going on?

  • Cheeky indeed. It would be nice if fansubbers like them actually represented the entire fansub support community. They don’t. They’re a group of uneducated individuals who think they know which direction the American anime market should take, and they give other fansubbers a bad name by having the gall to think they are exerting some sort of influence over that market. This is the media at work once again… letting a few morons speak for everyone else, and 2chan people who take one article’s word for it are just as dense.

  • “They refuse to learn Japanese – just look at all the Japanese who learn English to watch their films. What spoilt brats.”

    Comparing english to japanese…. English is a fucking world lanuage, unlike japanese.

  • You can’t trust 2ch in regards to issue of piracy of any kind. They lack the knowledge and continue to actively shy away from understanding the issue.

    Most of the stupid comments they’ve made can easily be avoided by simply reading up on the roots and technical history behind piracy.

  • Greetings from SLOVENIA

    WHAT CAN I SAY?

    I’m from Slovenia and there aren’t ANY DISTRIBUTERS for anime except German and Italy (all sinchronized) 🙁 I want language in japanesse and subb in english.

    Americans could really wait because they can get anywhere on the streets.

    In Slovenia NOWHERE, so my only reserve is to download from the internet.

    Have a nice day and ANIME 4 EVER (ANIME ZA VEDNO):D hehe

    • What makes it even harder is the massive red tape Foreign distributers have to go through to license said series and release it subbed/dubbed in other countries like the U.S. It goes back to the major chokehold that Japanese companies have on their products and their unwillingness to deal with foreign markets. I liked Akamatsu’s idea with his website, however the downside was that no one would click the ads. However it’s a step in the right direction in getting product out on a global scale. The other downside to Akamatsu’s release of Love Hina was the fact it was the Japanese version. Now say, if the English version of Love Hina was offered on the website as well for a fee thats about half of what the actual volume cost in paper form, I would’ve purchased it. As its been said before, the current Japanese model is outdated. It doesn’t allow for new technology.

      Now it’s uncommon but has happened where fansubbers would get hired by actual companies to translate, etc. If say, 10 of the major fansubs groups out there got hired by legit companies in Japan to translate and distribute (of course a small fee per episode to watch), I’m sure that people would pay the small fee to watch each episode. Say, a buck and episode, multiply that by the number of viewers for the show equals a decent profit. Hell, I would bet that the Japanese companies wouldn’t need to pay the fansubbers much either cause Fansubbers already do this stuff on their free time anyway. The small intake of money would be a small incentive to continue doing it plus offset the cost of server(s). Its a possible business model that could only serve to benefit Japanese companies and their anime. Now say an anime bombshells through that type of distribution, then nothing is lost. The small amount of money that was gained from the people who did purchase an episode or two will just go back to the company in dues. Lets all keep in mind fansubbers fansub for free, so expectations of cash flow isn’t there.

  • They do know that it’s their fault we can “pirate” right? I mean they would have to put the media online and even then someone has to buy the media that is being pirated in the first place. Besides most people buy the series they like when it comes out anyway.