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Fansubbers: “We Support Anime” 2ch: “You Are Thieves!”


2ch’s reaction to fansubbers who excuse their illegal acts by saying they are “supporting the anime industry” and blame the situation on the industry for not providing anime quickly enough is to denounce them for their brazen hypocrisy.

A Japanese journalist attending Anime Expo 2010, held in Los Angeles, had the misfortune to meet a group of fansubbers at the event and writes about the encounter for Nikkei:

I approached a pair of well known LA-based fansubbers at the event.

They explained some of their reasoning:

“We don’t like having to wait to get our anime, and the companies here won’t do it quickly enough. But we can do it.

By providing anime with no time lag, we’re supporting the American anime market. Even if it is illegal.

The current state of the American anime market is definitely not good for anime consumers. The companies won’t change it, so we do it for them.”

After speaking with the fansubbers, I spoke to a Japanese researcher with the Harvard Business School, who was accompanying me. What he murmured to me left an impression:

“Those kids were cheeky, weren’t they?”

He was smiling as he said it, but his eyes weren’t smiling…

As I explained previously, “fansubs” are the main way of viewing anime in America. From a purely legal perspective, fansubbing is nothing more than another way of saying piracy.

Many have said that fansubs are behind much of the sudden collapse of the American anime market. Naturally many copyright holders want a crackdown.

It’s often said that fansubbers just do it for love of anime or because they want to promote anime. Opinion tends to be divided as to whether that is the case, or whether they are simple hypocrites making excuses for themselves.

However, it is clear that they do not think adequate access to anime is being provided by the industry.

He goes on to describe some of the grey areas fansubbing encompasses, where anime producers historically provided only illegal, inferior or impractical access to their products overseas, with the result that consumers took matters into their own hands in what he regards as a very American display of initiative.

After being presented with the article, 2ch is less than convinced by their excuses:

“Just a bunch of pirates trying to justify their crimes.”

“Summary: ‘We’re not thieves. We just like anime. We won’t watch it if we have to pay.'”

“Sounds like something some idiots would say in order to rationalise what they’re doing. I hope these morons get arrested, especially in Japan.”

“Pirate logic is the same the world over.”

“They pretend to be gods by freely watching and redistributing the anime Japanese actually buy and support…”

“If Japan treated Disney cartoons and Hollywood movies like they treated our anime, the US government would go ballistic!”

“What are they on about? ‘The American anime market,’ ‘American anime consumers’ – when they just illegally pirate everything, is there a ‘market’? Are they ‘consumers’?”

“With YouTube and similar, Japanese anime sales overseas have dropped off and it’s barely commerically viable anymore.”

“They should really crack down on these people like Disney does. Why on earth don’t they?”

“It’s also true that without fansubs anime wouldn’t have spread overseas like it did. And there are a lot of people like this in Japan itself.”

“The translation abilities of fansubbers are so pitiful it’s a wonder anyone thinks they can form a valid opinion of an anime by watching them.”

“Even in Japan there are scumbags who sub western films and then upload them, and get treated like gods for doing it.”

“They refuse to learn Japanese – just look at all the Japanese who learn English to watch their films. What spoilt brats.”

“Some of these guys also claim to be doing it to advertise the anime in question.”

“Just cracking down may not increase their revenues in any case. Perhaps they should loosen their grip and let even more people see them.”

“So you’re an anime producer, are you?”

“What are you, deluded?”

“This is just what you’d expect of people who are satisfied with the video quality you get with fansubs.”

“Having these people watch our anime might encourage more censorship. It would be best if they didn’t watch them.”

“It’s the industry’s own fault. They should have a Disney-style copyright protection effort.”

“What really pisses me off is when weekly manga are scanned and translated even before you can buy it in the shops here.”

“Japanese regional anime otaku: ‘The regional stations are to blame for not broadcasting any anime! We have to use video sharing sites, it’s our last resort!’

Me: ‘What about ATX?’ [a premium anime channel available nation-wide]

Natives: ‘…'”

“Take a leaf out of my book you hairy foreigners! I waited for the Japanese release of ‘Transformers’ without watching it illegally, I went to the US to buy goods despite not speaking a lick of English, I attended the events and bought stuff! Those people have no right to say they love anime.”

“Leaving aside the matter of overseas otaku, I just want to say to them to stop circulating anime online before you can even buy or watch it in Kanto…”

“What a bunch of asses. Download all the doujinshi you want, but leave stuff by pros alone.”

“I can’t say what these people are doing is justified, but I do think the producers who ignore the demand here have really wasted an opportunity.”

“Just buy the DVDs! Otherwise wait! Or else make something yourself, if you can…”

“They think they are entitled to watch it all for free now, so they won’t buy anything. Do they think this stuff is produced by some sort of natural process!?”

“Well, it’s sad but most of them just don’t want to watch the anime enough to actually pay for it to be made.”

“Even without having a fee system, they can still make something by advertising on the videos, can’t they? It’s not a huge effort for the producers to sub and provide official versions of their anime with minimal lag. It’s better than just having everyone watch them for nothing.”

“I think some companies already went bust trying that.”

“As things are now the Americans probably don’t want to buy much advertising.”

“Those Americans won’t buy anything. It doesn’t matter how many fans there are.

Look at the prices on the NA editions! It’s that cheap and they still won’t buy it!? It’d be a bargain sale price in Japan.”

“I get the feeling that it is just us who are paying a lot more.”

“2 episodes for $70 is Japan only, yes.”

“The director of Code Geass said in an interview that at US prices 70% of anime titles released in Japan would lose money.

Just because you sell at a very low price doesn’t mean your sales will necessarily increase a huge amount.

There simply are not many otaku to sell to in any case. Hollywood films just sell to millions of people so they can spread the cost over them all like that.

Even at ¥980, this season’s crop of moe anime would never sell 100,000 copies. US prices for anime are from half to a tenth of what we pay – but the market is still collapsing.”

“If you don’t broadcast and release DVDs simultaneously in all countries, your sales will continue to decrease. In a world connected by the Internet, popularity arises simultaneously, globally.

If you try to force people to wait a year for something to be localised, it will long since have fallen from popularity by then.”

“So far they have been saying this:

‘Japanese must distribute anime freely at the same time as it airs in Japan – if they don’t, fansubbing will continue forever.’

So some Japanese makers tried to accommodate them even with their meagre budgets.

They distributed the Tower of Druaga free on YouTube.

What happened? The fansubbers ripped off the subs and began distributing their own version in higher resolution.

Ore no Imouto was also being simulcast in the US.

What happened? The show was leaked online before it even aired, and then redistributed and they hastily cancelled the whole thing.

They try to make out as if they are benevolent volunteers. But really their morals are completely absent.”

“And they do make money from this in spite of it being a ‘volunteer effort.’ They are happy to accept donations – it doesn’t matter how hard the creators work on it, the praise and the money ends up with them in the end.

And let’s not forget a certain site which targeted Japanese anime, pirated them and distributed them online for free, then became a multimillion dollar enterprise – Crunchy Roll, started by a Chinese-American.”

“What the idyllic legend of fansubbers starting an overseas market for anime refers to is a bunch of students handing around translated VHS tapes and showing them at their universities.

But that has nothing to do with the situation now, where ‘anime = download for free’ and the market is collapsing.”

“In a little while this thread will be translated and made into an article on some foreign site, and they’ll leave out the inconvenient stuff above and just start a huge flamefest.”

Leave a Comment


  • $70 for a few episode in japan seems normal, but in America, tv shows cost maybe $20-$30 on DVD for 12episodes. Anime here tends to cost $20 for four episodes, and while cheaper than in Japan, it is that comparison which results inns thinking that the price is high.

  • I dare any Japanese anime company to take the original episodes, hire translators and one editor (to make sure the result doesn’t sound like chinglish) to sub it, then post the result on website where people can either view it on a pay-per-view or subscription basis.

    Oh wait, that’s right, the Japanese can’t handle new ideas.

  • I don’t know who’s dumber. Me for not realizing that fansubbing was a for of piracy or them for being so blatantly delusional. I knew there had to be a reason I hated fansubs but now that I think about it, I don’t think this was it.

  • Illegal stuff is illegal and I won’t claim that fansubs are not illegal in most cases, but I think people could have some more empathy here.

    I’m not offended when I see Chinese fansubs of US television shows that I can watch for free OTA where I live because I know how expensive and impractical it often can be to import DVDs or Blu-rays from overseas. NTSC-U DVDs of US television shows are expensive, but nowhere near as expensive as Japanese anime DVDs or Blu-rays. When it comes to Japanese anime, for overseas buyers like me I would not only have to pay high shipping costs, but I would also have to wait until the show was finished airing and had a DVD/BD version available before watching.

    For shows that I already love I actually wouldn’t mind that. If I know that a show is worth shelling out USD300 to watch on BD, I would pay that if I had the money. However, it’s simply not reasonable to pay that much to watch a show that you are seeing for the first time. Domestic viewers can tune in and watch the show OTA for free on its first run. Then, if they don’t like it, they can decide to never watch it again.

    Look how much it would cost to buy a mediocre show like High School of the Dead:

    That’s nearly USD400 for the series on Blu-ray, not considering shipping costs. This is the type of show that, after seeing one or two episodes, many viewers would probably drop. If my ONLY option for viewing a show, however, is by buying an expensive DVD/BD, then dropping shows is simply not an option. I would then only have the opportunity to watch shows that I knew were going to be stellar. I wouldn’t be able to give shows a chance for a few episodes.

    And another thing: download some share/PD raws with TCPViewer or similar open and you’ll see that about 90% of the connected peers are Japanese who probably could have watched the show over the air for free. Those guys have even less of an excuse than foreigners like me.

    • Those weebos are just RACISTs. They thought of themselves as superior. That’s how they got involved in WW II.

      From the talks, it seems like TV is not free in Western countries. But TV show is free in Japan and most east Asia countries. It’s ad-supported. You only need to buy the television and antenna.

  • Well, there’s no doubt fansubbing is illegal. But I support it for the most part. Overall it gets anime to the public. To a certain point though, they do hinder official anime releases. But rarely will someone buy an anime if they haven’t seen it. And if they’re not buying anime after watching it fansubbed, what makes you think they’ll buy it at all.

  • No fansubs = foreign people won’t know animes = they won’t buy anime dvd

    with fansubs = foreigners get to know anime = if they really like it they buy the dvd

    it’s not so hard 2ch, you can do it

  • Oh my god, what have I done?! How could I be so selfish?! I’m going to the shops right now to pick up Kaiba, Kemonozume, Denno Coil, Windy Tales, Mindgame… Wait, the series I want are not available to buy in the UK…

    Well, I got the japanese DVD for Mindgame a while back, simply because it had english subtitles on it, would not mind it on Bluray though. Tatami Galaxy is also coming out here on DVD, so don’t worry Japan, I’ll buy it.

  • I’m not certain where this places me but I remember learning about Genshiken through browsing on One Manga several years ago. Shortly thereafter I downloaded the first season, followed the fansubs online and subsequently downloaded the OVA and second Season. About 2 years after I had illegally collected every bit of the series I could find, I began hunting down the printed copies of the manga and over time bought all of the manga (including the sub-par Kujibiki unbalance manga. THEN after that several months later I went out and bought up both the season one and season two box sets.
    My heart swells with pride when I think about my collection and I can say with some degree of certainty that I would never have found out about or followed this amazing series had it not been for the availability of it illegally online. But I suppose to the 2Ch I will forever be a dirty Gaijin pirate no matter how much merchandise I purchase…

  • Japan’s shit localization is to blame for fansubbing. 99.9% of what gets fansubbed doesn’t even leave shore. We’re hurting an industry we’re not even a part of?

    I don’t think so you brain-less nips.

  • “If you don’t broadcast and release DVDs simultaneously in all countries, your sales will continue to decrease. In a world connected by the Internet, popularity arises simultaneously, globally.

    If you try to force people to wait a year for something to be localised, it will long since have fallen from popularity by then.”

    This man does understand, as do we. Some of us do buy the DVDs of the anime we really like, and I prefer to import them than to wait, but there’s only so much I can buy at $100US [roughly after shipping and customs] a disc with 2 eps [just 3 series and one movie so far]. Also, those imported DVDs don’t figure as overseas sales.

    I do watch a lot more than I buy though, but how would I like a show I haven’t watched? Japanese don’t buy it before watching it either.

    Moreover, 2ch conveniently forgets there exists an assortment of merchandise that can not be pirated and also counts as support to the animation studios. However, most of it is imported and resold locally in anime conventions and the like, so they don’t figure as overseas sales either…

    • …I’m sure 2ch would find flaw in these arguments, but they would most likely boil down to:

      “you don’t spend nearly enough, like we do, to say you support the industry”

      But who can actually dedicate as much money as they do to the industry?… Let’s do a quick survey to find out the difference in spending habits between Japanese and Western otaku [Please someone ask this to 2ch]

      1. Do you earn your own income?
      2. How much of your monthly income can you dedicate to leisure? How much of that goes to anime related goods?
      3. Do you cut into your monthly income’s share usually dedicated for food, clothes and such to instead buy anime goods? How often?
      4. Do you feel like you want to buy more anime goods but can’t afford them? How often?
      5. When you earn extra money than you were not expecting, Do you dedicate some of it to anime goods? How often?
      6. Would you prefer:
      A) to seek a way to earn more money to dedicate to anime goods?
      B) that the prices for anime related goods in general be lowered?.

      I’ll start the first one
      1. yes
      2. 30% and 50%
      3. yes, twice or thrice a year
      4. yes, always
      5. yes, maybe twice a year
      6. B)

  • I just don’t get 2ch sometimes, it’s like they are a different species…

    If I was able to get English subtitles from watching it on TV or DVD, then I would just do that but no, they don’t do that on TV & most DVDs don’t offer English subtitles with the original Japanese dub so…

  • As a european fansub downloader I feel so left out in these 2ch vs US downloaders. You damn Americans are taking all the flak, can’t you people just share some of it sometimes…and yes that was obviously a joke :P.

  • At least even some of the most socially awkward otakus in the US actually go out. Japan and China seem to be two sides of the same fucked up coin now. QUALITY and Quality. It’s crap recent junk nowadays that’s killing my interest in anime and Japan. Not to genralize but damn, You can’t lump everyone in the same thing like that.

    If Japan was pirating merchandise, I’m sure they do, like we fansubbed, I’m pretty sure our market would not collaspe or even notice. Then again this sounds like it’s coming from the same people who bought FF13 and 14 just because it’s Squeenix and oh so popular without checking it out beforehand. Just like downloading music, you can’t lose profits you were never going to have. I’ll buy something if I really like it and to support the creators, but not if i want to try it out and ends up being shit.

  • The average anime fan in the US is a teenager.
    The average teenager in the US is unemployed.
    The average unemployed person cannot afford DVDs no matter how inexpensive.
    The average American does, however, have an internet connection.

    This is the reality. Anime companies are up against something a lot bigger than just things like DVD prices and consumer preferences.

  • We live in a global economy, why hasn’t anime industry caught up with this yet?

    I actually have stacks of manga and anime I wouldn’t have bought if it wasn’t for the fan subbers. I pirate when it’s not in the states and then buy when its in the states.

    Problem is even when it does get licensed it takes literally months and months between a single volume. Its frustrating: Buy one volume in December, wait three months and buy the next volume in March or you could go online and get it a few weeks after it comes out in Japan.

    I could learn Japanese, but at my age and the expense of going back to school to start learning a language, that’s like asking me to learn how to fly.

    If amateurs with lackluster skills can translate over night, why can’t professionals do it too? I think its because of money.

    Also I don’t pirate doujinshi because I want to. If we getting to comiket to meet all the awesome artists was easier (say have a company organize tours there) I’d be doing it every comiket. Fuck Christmas, winter comiket is better!

  • *sigh* i dont deny what fansubbers to is piracy but its for the greater good….. i mean if it wasnt for fan subs i wouldnt own half my anime dvd’s like tengen toppa gurren lagann which is shit quality by the way and its a good job im learning japanese because the subtitles are terrible its probably better to turn them off and work out whats being said yourself.
    on a side note anime that are good and i enjoy i 90% of the time wont buy dubbed because the VA’s are crap soooo why cant i watch the subbed version then buy the dvd if i feel like supporting the industry.
    so point being i buy all the anime i like but it doesnt give me the right to download it but im obv going to anyway because im not waiting for the dvd to come out then for shipping

  • I have to agree with the fan subbers on this one as well. Most anime nowadays probably cannot come to the states with all of this borderline hentai shit, making it even less probable of coming to the states. And exactly who are the idiots buying 4 fucking DVDs of Endless Eight for like 60 bucks each? Some shows are definetely worth it to buy (if it ever comes here).

    Also, is it actually illegal or wrong to download anything that basically unavailable anymore. Like outdated video games. Unless you’re actually going track these things down in a pawn shop or something, you’re never going to get a hold of them unless you find ROMs and what not.

    Are we ever going to get Sailor Moon, Digimon or Yugioh rereleased with actual Japanese uncut? I think not. and I don’t even think the last part of Sailor came to the states… Come to think of it, there’s no way to get Mighty Max legally without torrents is there? Ah good shows…

  • You know, most people take stuff for granted. I was like that before. Just watched anime with subtitles. But then a thought crossed my mind one day. If I’m gonna watch anime with original voicing (Japanese), then I should at least try to learn the language. With how it was before, it was pretty much like “Oh. Ok. Thanks.” But by trying to learn Japanese, I’m showing respect and gratitude towards the people who make it. Now that still doesn’t excuse the fact that anime takes forever to come out in America, but it does help give a valid idea of one reason why the Japanese may not like us.

  • The fact is that it really isn’t available enough and when that happens you have to expect pirates. When there are pirates it’s hard to appeal for a legitimate means. It’s quite the “Catch 22” if I’m using that term correctly. If somebody were to put up a useful website with ads that support the appropriate people it might work, but I can’t imagine how difficult that would be.

  • Don’t see the problem.

    A number of anime over the years would have never seen the light of day in the North American or European markets without fansubs revealing how good the series really is. I believe Azumanga Daioh particularly sold better as a result.

    Also, fansubbing a series shows how popular it could really be or if it is a dud. A few days ago, it was that Avatar was rated the most pirated movie this year at a billion plus. I don’t think any anime would be even close to that for anyone to care outside of Japan.

  • TL/DR: screw them, let them live a life without the privilege of the native language or home-country being japan or US(other native-english/japanes-speaking countries) that brodcasts stuff all day long!!

    companies give a shit about subs, every DVD i bought had bad timing issues NO QA what so ever and no translation effort, they just wait till someone made a horrible dub and get the speech2text parser on it to have bad sub under it … it is still a horror!
    no change there over now what? 15 years?! I’m talking anime here.

    I’m not a citizen of a natively english or japanese speaking country.
    translating in general is a problem! since longer then twenty years, since languages where translated there were quality issues!

    just a slice of pain on __US stuff__, every country in Europe dubs everything for most Spain and Germany, with some exceptions like the Dutch they put all their effort ONLY into subs (kid films, like cartoons, they more and more dub, badly)
    If you buy DVD/BD here you will find EN sub with OT EN dub and only one more sub for the local language or just the local dub and maybe one sub of some neighbor country … that local sub, most of the time, is badly translated from the EN sub or just speech2text of the local dub (some exceptions, the dutch! really they do good subs, but sadly it’s not my native language). In Germany or Spain you will most likely NEVER find subs they dub the hell out of everything, with bad voice cast and bad translation. No idea to why they ONLY dub.

    If I really want that stuff and not only just TV brodcast (if I would get that stuff from TV) or for rewatch purpose. First I buy merchandise of everything I can get my finger on, I already love it to watch it again and again, just to keep them happy with my money. BUT I get the fansubs, piracy; buy the damn DVD if it hits the local stores or have it shipped from oversea if it’s not raping my money with fees and currency rates, not piracy, well if that all fails and I have to wait months, I download, piracy; rip the damn thing BD/DVD-RAW or bought-DVD to get the piracy warnings and unskipable-commercials out of my away, breaking some local laws and of course piracy; and put it together with the ripped subs, piracy of the translation fansub pirates.
    Now I have a version of what I want. BUT wasted to much time and money and pirated and ripped and broke laws what so ever … but by then I have what is watchable AND readable and can rewatch it w/o enraging every 3 seconds.
    US or JP stuff is either way translation-crap here.

    So if the media-power countries like US or JP still think they can ride the mighty horse and spit from way high up down on me with their crap, screw them. I put way to much dollars and yen their mighty horses butt. And just – see TL/DR.

    and the 5 to 10 years of learning both languages to an extend that I can keep up with linguistic jokes is a pore answer. I prefer notes from locals that can explain it – fansubs lack there the same way as the companies.
    After that we can talk about creditcard RAPE ._.”’

    — sry, probably all over bad written english, still it’s better then the googletranslate version <_<'', my two cents —

  • Ok…While I DO understand their point of view let’s talk about my own situation. I live in Czech republic – not the biggest country in the world.

    In Prague, our capital city, we have + – 3 shops where you can buy manga (not talking about anime…there is one place where you can rent it) – about 4 titles really unknown and mediocre quality at the very best are available in Czech, another 5 mainstream ones in English. Of course as they are importend randomly you won’t get any real continuity (meaining you will have books 1,2,5,7,12 etc.)

    And now the funny math facts (I am sorry for the inconvenience, but I am too lazy to put it all in some money converter, so I am going to post it all in our currency). If you have good, steady job (neither the best one nor the worst) you have an income of more or less 20.000 Czech crowns per month. Cca 8.000 you spend on obligatories such as electricity, water, rent…

    Because the manga is imported from the UK (and pound is really much stronger than crowns) you pay around 500 for one book. Ergo: for 10 books of, let’s say Bleach, you would pay 1/4 of your monthly income.

    Now if you are student, you could afford up to 2 or 3 books – don’t forget you can pick from about 5 – 10 titles, no anime, no anime/manga goods at all.

    Therefore: I am very sorry, but I won’t spend all of my bloody money just to get few books of Bleach or Love Hina.

    When I went to Japan I did buy manga there (100 – 200 yen each in BookOff stores) and goods. I have tried to support industry even a little bit. But here it’s…well, maybe not trully impossible, but so inconvenient, that I simply prefer to just download it.

  • Another thought just crossed my mind. This time about 2ch. If they love anime so much, then how come they are doing something that would have anime collapse here in America as well as seperate Japan and America even more? I mean, if we eliminate the fansubbers, anime would become less popular here in America and that is one less thing of interest that many Americans and Japanese share.

  • I’d gladly pay for anime if distributors made more of an effort to release a quality product. Just a few days ago I bought Viz Media’s release of Honey & Clover which irritatingly referred to “Shinobu” in the subtitles despite the character being clearly and repeatedly called Morita when speaking.

    Don’t get me started on Battle Vixens.

  • Well most of the animes that are fan subbed are shown on TV in japan right? Then it doesnt matter that much as you dont pay at all or not much to watch anime on TV.
    But if they sub Blueray/DVD they lose a little money ofc.

    But everyone make it seem bigger than it is imo.

  • Well if American’s distributors didn’t take 2 freaking years to bring something over I wouldn’t be watching fansubs! Seriously, I enjoy offical releases because of their quality and such but I don’t want to wait 2 freaking years to get something I’m very excited about. So I’m siding with the fansubbers here.

  • So what im getting from this is that Japanese Otaku hate americans (they dont realize that a lot of subbers come from other places as well).

    And that they suck at business and marketing…

    so much to marvel at..

  • To be honest the publishers look at what is being pirated from there they find out what has the biggest following by finding out what is getting downloaded the most here in America after they do that they get the copyright from the Japanese companies and produce a official versions which usually the fans buy.

  • These people are somewhat stupid aren’t they? Do they not realize that most people who actually watch those fan subs then go out and order the anime straight from Japan, thus supporting the original damn market? The American market collapsed because it was pure F material. Maybe 2chan should try reading some professionally translated American licensed English manga. They will be sickened and enraged by how horribly it has been butchered.

    Research before you speak 2chan.

  • frankly I agree with the fansubbers, really the companies like funanimation should work with the fansubbers, seriously it takes years sometimes for stuff to reach me in europe. Without fansubbers be like 4 years behind with bleach and naruto animes or one piece. Plus funianimation cunts region block stuff so people in europe dont get it.

    Anime distributers need to sort themselves out they so behind, because the do all the bullshit dubbing that in the end sounds like garbage minus rahxephon dubbing which was incredible.


    honestly, the market on anime in America is of fail simply because (just like many others said) translations by the so called ‘pros’ are pathetic and ruin the quality of the anime. It indeed does make them look like crap and give off the impression that anime isn’t even worth a second glance at by many of the American citizens. Personally, I prefer the fansubbing. The overall quality is kept intact and has a really good chance of bringing people into the world of anime by giving them better dialouge, virtually no editing to the anime itself [such as when someone gets cut in half, there will be plenty of blood as to where here in America it will be severly reduced and such (though I can’t say that is still the case since I haven’t watched any Americanized anime for some time now)]. I don’t mind waiting a week for something to be translated and aired or realeased in stores. But when it comes to something being like 100 something episodes or like 15 volumes behind, I’m gonna have to go with the fansubs. Not only will I remain interested (and am likely to spend money on things related to the anime), but I will also remain a fan. If there were no subbers, then the market on anime here in America would come to an end. Course I can’t go off entirely on the industry and such. American people are to blame as well since many of them simply see a cartoon (this is derived from me hearing from hearing I should stop watching cartoons time and time again). If many Americans learend how to actually see story, character development/setup, etc. then anime would be greatly appreciated here in America. Though that would solve the problem of anime popularity, that wouldn’t solve the fact that America is ran by the greedy (henceforth why anime is cheap here in America, which is good for us but in the long run bad since we’ll just keep getting greedier).

    I know that I said alot and there may be a good bit that was redundant, but damn it, it’s my opinion and how I feel about the situation.

  • Yeah im pirate but i like anime and i dont have any chance to buy it anime dvd here are horribly expensive usualy they cost 50-80 % more and thas fucked up since paychacks here are horribly low .

  • Japanese Otaku: “We are righteous… All other foreign otaku can go to hell.”

    Guess what? Pirates or no, you’re ALL otaku. Worse if they’re part of the jobless, basement-dwelling hikkikomori-kind. And who’s to say they don’t pirate their own nation’s products as well?

    Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy EVERYWHERE.

  • How many more animes are there in Japan that don’t come to America, or at least take a VERY long time? Yeah, I don’t give a damn about 2ch, most of the people there are just ignorant bastards that think anything we Americans do involving anime or manga is illegal and we are thieves. I’m not going to spend 5+ years of my life learning Japanese just so I can import something that probably won’t even be worth it, seeing as imports cost a lot.

  • I put most of blame on the American publishers. Issues are released too slowly and they blame it on translation problems! Holy Shit! Its not the Dead Sea Scrolls! When theyre 10 or 15 volumes behind the Japanese publisher I can’t wait that long, I’ll be dead! Even when they do publish a volume they localize the tranlation so I cant even tell its taking place in Japan any more! I just bought a copy of Osamu Tezukas “Ayako” which starts in 1949 and on the very first page a returning Japanese soldier is greeted by his kid brother with Yo Bro!, (give me a fucking break!!) At least the fan tranlation would be better tranlation than that!
    As far as anime is concerned most dubs suck because the voice actors and their directors really don’t give a shit. Delivery is either emotionaly flat or the timing is off. Japanese voice actors are trained to give a nuanced performance which seems to be lacking in English dubs. Its almost like they voicing Saturday morning cartoons for 6 year olds and whatever comes out is good enough.
    Until they start correcting some of thes issue fun-subbing will continue to flourish.

  • Since I started using NBA premium, watching NBA games that I only like.

    The solution to the Japan’s Anime Issue. Objective is for the international release. Counterpart of AT-X.
    1.Hire the fansubbers.
    2. 3 channels, Animax Premium (all new anime shows subbed in English simultcast release with some replays as well.) Animax Gold (all previously aired anime during the last three seasons) Animax Silver (all previously aired popular anime in the last five years)

    The cost should be similar to NBA premium so it won’t be that expensive since not every season there are good animes to watch for.

  • I came from 2ch. English is poor but listen.
    Anybody knows Rapelay issue? We got screwed because of people pirated. Because some of you pirated and made some noise, Rapelay became a serious problem. We got bashed from the world, called hentai or whatever. I can’t believe why you would do that.
    They play for free and paticipate to bash Japanese and to restrict our games.That’s absurd.
    Leave them lay, even you cannot accept in your culture.
    Have we ever blamed Manhant or other murder games American made?
    Our point is We really care to be restricted and controlled any kinds of games or Manga.

    • Sure go ahead an blame the foreign human right activist for all of it while your dear politicians continue to bow to every command the activists lay while licking their shoes.

      The issue you guys have is that your politicians are making easy popularity points out of content bans because you 2ch people barely unite anywhere outside the internet where any data can be easily dismissed as made up. We never see you guys do actual movements to go against all this. All you do is stay behind the anonymous walls of your forums, sign an (online) petition or two and leave all the work to the game makers who are already vulnerable to media outcry.

      Go ahead and prove me wrong.

  • If Japanese pirates didn’t upload everything under the sun to the internet the fansubbers wouldn’t be able to sub anything. Set your own house in order before you look to the rest of the world.

  • Dubs are a non-issue – most anime viewers prefer the original japanese dub anyways, so the western companies shouldn’t use it as an excuse.

    English subs can be fast and fansubbers prove an almost simultaneous release IS possible. If the western ditributors did their jobs, people wouldn’t make buying anime DVD’s and such a “secondary market”.

    I for one, enjoy owning original DVD’s and Manga, but i also download fansubs for the simple reason that they’re faster and i can watch a series at the same time it’s being released.

    Additionally, if it’s a TV-rip everyone can go screw themselves – if the channel was available ouside of Japan, people could watch it for free anyways.

    In the end – Fansubbers are a necessary evil for the western anime industry to evolve; 2ch is a bunch of nationalist idiot trolls.

      • Ok, you know what?

        You’re being a fucking prejudiced biggot.

        I’m Portuguese, and i only download anime and manga when it’s not available for official purchase.

        You probably hate american comics, being the fucking racists you are – but imagine wanting to read a Spider-man comic and the only way is to import from america and reading in english, when you don’t speak english – IT SUCKS.

        Globalization implies ease of world distribution and could make the business a whole lot of money and the only reason it doesn’t is BECAUSE YOU FUCKERS CLOSE UP INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION.

        You might hate us all you want, but i don’t give a shit – i love japanese culture, anime, manga, music, art, videogames and even the people.

        You are the racists, not us. You’re the ones with “no-gaijin bars” – i dare you to find any public place in the world where they wouldn’t let a japanese in.

  • WHY are you jugde ppl in 2ch is pirate?
    And,If someone pirate,you are allowed pirate?
    please stop to yelling like a kid.
    EVERYONE must subjected to low.
    sorry my poor english.but plz think a lot as an adult.

  • Japanese Dubs are not bad, but since im living in Germany, i have to say some Dubs were really good back then.
    Like Dragonballz and C.Bebop and the like.
    I also enjoyed Gungrave in German since the VA´s just did a wonderful job.
    In the End its a personal opinion about JPvsUSvsGer Dubbing.
    Some people are saying JP is superior sometimes, but i have to disagree with it, since localized Animes are also good.
    It only depends on the VAs and their experience.
    Well, thats what i think.

  • I will only comment that I pay an expensive bill for cable tv, and they have
    taken away almost all anime shows, starting with Cartoon Network ,Nickelodeon, Jetix (Now Disney XD) to even Animax.
    I have Animax and what do they broadcast? Beverly Hills 90210! I agree the Japanese are right on their remarks, but they had much of the blame by not caring of the audience. i also remember around 10 year ago trying to buy anime related products and they would simply say they don’t ship here.
    so i really feel they should rethink carefully their distribution methods. online distributing is a monster, but one they helped creating.
    Also here we have a huge following for anima shows, it started around 10 -15 years ago with shows like Dragon ball and Sailor Moon, and they had a chance to
    make a profit out of it by pleasing us the audience by contracting and rehiring the original voice actors which we love dearly, but Toei for example only looks to hire the cheapest voice actors, even though are voice actors are payed very low fees as is common knowledge. and half the shows dubbed were a disgrace just because almost every anime distributor preferred to go for the cheapest of
    voice actors and trashing their own products.
    So i think they should also analyze how they have treated their audience. after all we are their market.

  • Come on! The fansub scene is dying, if not already dead, since the establisment of Crunchyroll and so on. What’s left are the socalled subrippers who do not translate the anime themselves.

    On the other hand, anime and manga was never so popular when there are no fansubbers and trans-/scanlators, and not because of some half-assed companies like the TokyoPop, Funimation etc.. who don’t care about the correct translations/interpretation of the original Japanese version, since they think anime and manga are just stuffs for kids, so who cares about the correctness of these Japanese media. Not to mention all the censorship of “violence” etc. in One Piece, they even censored Pokemon for Christ’s sake, while turning Japanese characters into Caucasians, for example Detective Conan (turned into “Case Closed”) where all characters have an English name now.

    Why are the Japanese companies in the anime industry still licensing their product to these half-assed American anime-/mangapublishers who do not give a shit, and only cares about the money they could get through these licenses; if they can’t make money out of them they just dropped the DVD releases of these anime series when you just need one or two DVDs to complete that particular anime series. Yes, the legitimate buyers who are buying these anime series on DVDs and or Blu-ray discs are punished by these companies, not because they steal things, no, they buy them with their hard-earned money.

    I guess the current anime business will be even more difficult since legal ways to watch anime are there now, e.g. Crunchyrolls, so the anime DVD business will be gone in several years. In the meantime, lets hope Crunchyroll gets rid of the region restrictions and provide better (video) quality anime series and services.

  • HE HE HE HE HE HE I don’t know about the rest of you but as much as there were ishithara’s in the making there was also those who were slowly but surely accepting and understnading they’re slow yeah but ehhh ha ha ha give them 4 more years its not like we care what they think anyway

  • Wow, so many comments trying to argue with this article and it hasn’t even been posted for very long.

    I pirate anime. I’m not going to excuse myself and act like I’m not doing anything wrong. Nothing I can say will excuse myself from what I will continue to do.
    …but at least I’m not a delusional pirate like the numerous commentators above and below this post.

    • I’m not going to lie, 4kids has ok voice actors(I honestly prefer One Piece 4kids dub or Funimation, because all I hear is Dragonball Z ccharacters), but the fact that they have to censor EVERYTHING ruins every single show for me. Like recently, watched DBZ on 4kids to see what it was like. I mean, BLUE MR. POPO? I don’t even care their reasoning, he is BRIGHT AS HELL and he hurts my eyes.

  • “In a little while this thread will be translated and made into an article on some foreign site, and they’ll leave out the inconvenient stuff above and just start a huge flamefest.”

    And then someone will translate all of our comments, leave out the anti-fansub ones and post them on 2ch and the entire thing will just turn into a big flamecycle.


    I can’t say I really approve of fansubs. Since CrunchyRoll, from what I understand, works WITH anime companies now, I will watch stuff there, but I do intend to buy it. I’ll buy Panty and Stocking if there’s ever a DVD release here.

    Fansubbers really are thieves, especially those that ask for donations or other forms of payment. Being an animation student myself, I can say that animators don’t make a lot of money and it can be hard to find work.

    Knowing this, I can’t watch fansubbed anime. It’s terribly disrespectful to those that worked on it, from character designers to tweeners.

  • Download anime isn’t incompatible with buying DVD…
    I’m French, I download a lot of anime and i also buy DVD every month (1 or 2 anime per month recently).
    But the market in France is different i think.

  • don’t forget about the merchandise … profit from animes usually comes from merchandise, not the dvds … and thats why they usually find sponsor for making animes …

    so more people watch the anime more merchandise can be sold … and non-japanese otakus are usually type B otakus that support the anime they like by buying the merchandise like toys, bag, games, etc

    and these customers won’t buy any merchandise from anime they never watched before … they need a link … the fansubber …

    so if you ask “Fansubber support the anime studios?”


  • The last commentary is the raw truth, and all you whiny emokids take too much for granted.. you EXPECT something for nothing all the time, and today’s ‘fansubber’ is nothing but a miserable pile of lies. But the Japanese and their greedy American licensees have some blame to take too.

    ‘Fansubbers’ today are not ‘fansubbers’, they’re PIRATES. Their ethics – limited though they were have gone out the window.

    Do you remember?
    -Waiting weeks or months for a VHS copy of some’s IMPORTED LASERDISC of anime? How there weren’t dozens or hundreds of shit anime titles to choose from at your local video store? How IF (not WHEN) the title ever got licensed, that group would cease distributing their tapes?

    Digital fansubs have made every monkey and his dog a ‘fansubber’. But how many copies of MOEBLOBOFTHEWEEK.MKV do you see posted on your favourite torrent site? If you really cared about promoting and expanding markets, why would you repost a 3rd or 6th rewrite of the same terrible show? Why not subtitle something else that noone else does? Why is there a race to be the first to post a new episode unless it serves to stroke your e-cock?

    Fansubbers today don’t even respect licensing rights either – this is the simplest and most blunt lie to their statements.

    The Japanese and American distributors have also played a smaller part in this failure too – by producing so much worthless shit, they’ve choked the pipes. SRSLY – what’s the numbers now, 80-90 titles a YEAR? This number of productions is something like 30-50% more than it was 10 years ago, but they expect people to just keep on buying it. And I mean WORTHLESS SHIT – you can love your moeblob crap as much as you want, but there is a volume at which production values and writing and directorial quality suffer – and that point was several years ago. The industry is UNSUSTAINABLE and Americans (typical) especially seemed to think there was no limit to it, thus they should through infinite amounts of cash at every title ever made. And in typical fashion, this caused the Japanese to bust a nut, pumping out dozens of terrible new shows to fill a demand which was never really there.

    “why of course we can just keep pumping this crap out forever, look at how well all that Pokemon sells!”

    ..failing to take into account that Pokemon isn’t just some disposable TV show that’ll be replaced with another in 4 months.

    So tl;dr – you’re all to blame – so-called fans who won’t pay for anything, so-called fansubbers who do it for their own ends, not for real fans; and the anime industry for throwing all their money at anything indiscriminately then belatedly realizing they need that money to live.

  • Did any of you read the comments? You call 2ch ignorant but they are right.

    No anime market in the US? Ever thought that the reason for that might be because people are downloading anime instead of buying it? Why would American companies sub/dub anime for a market that doesn’t exist?

    Maybe if you went out and bought some DVDs, these companies could re-invest that money generated from those sales in order to license and release more shows, quicker, with more talented translators/voice actors. It’s simple economics.

    Fansubbing has gone beyond spreading the format and is now damaging to it. People just can’t see it. You think that “Oh, I won’t buy the DVDs because this fansub is good enough quality” but what happens if every fan thinks the same? To you, it’s only one person with that view. You can’t rely on others.

    • Did you ever ask yourelf.. why is there no anime in the US? It’s because they don’t fucking sell it here dumbass. You need to create a market before you can destroy it and Japanese companies are horrible at tapping the US market and the people here that could do it, don’t.

      What point are you missing in this? If we can not view the product, have no access to the product, never are told of the product, how the hell do we get it legally?

    • With all the hype on the popular series, they STILL use the same horrid VA’s for dubs…

      Also you can’t sell what no one knows about, and I GUARANTEE that you won’t see a commercial on any major stations for an anime in America.

      I’ve only experienced one good dub which was Chobits, all others were earbleedingly boring to the point that I simply stopped paying attention to an otherwise decent show.

      Bad/No Delivery = Bad/No Results

    • Well I buy some dvd releases. But there are certain points I WON’T accept. Take the Bandai DVD’s of Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam. Great quality, yeah…like a rats ass. Then there are fansubs of japanese BluRays. Now what would you do, buy the dvd’s and selfenying you the top notch quality you could have? I have found a compromise in buying the dvd’s second hand and getting the fansub anyway and I thank the subbers very much that I can watch the series in a quality it deserves. Although I can understand if someone wouldn’t buy those garbage quality dvd’s.

  • They only think it’s piracy because they don’t want foreign scum to participate in “their” cutlure. AT ALL. It’s 2ch we’re speaking about. If westeners would buy all their anime they would start and complain holy japanese only culture would be sold out to dirty foreign scum etc.

  • Its funny but why is 2ch’s reaction to almost anything seen as so important? 2ch flames and trolls, and thats all it ever does. You can bet more than 50% of those guys flaming the fansubbers are anime downloaders themselves.

    Can we get over it? To ignore 2ch that is.

  • Fuck you 2ch!

    Anime in German speaking countries is a miserable pile of shit. Here is a list what’s running right now and the time slots:
    06:10 Nils Holgersson
    06:35 Biene Maja
    07:40 Yu-Gi-Oh!
    10:30 Marco
    11:00 Niklaas, ein Junge aus Flandern
    11:25 Anne mit den roten Haaren
    12:05 Wickie und die starken Männer
    12:55 Pokemon
    13:00 Biene Maja
    14:00 Bakugan Battle Brawlers
    14:45 Beyblade – Metal Fusion
    14:50 Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D`s
    15:20 Naruto Shippuuden
    15:45 Naruto Shippuuden
    16:05 One Piece
    17:00 Yu-Gi-Oh!
    19:00 Wickie und die starken Männer
    22:35 Bakugan Battle Brawlers

    Do you see this shit?
    There’s even Shōnen-shit like Bleach missing, which is a feat.

    Then add bad dubs, censorship to appease 5 year olds and a lag of hundreds of episodes behind to it and you got your “Anime” program.

    Also you pay a yearly fee in Germany and Austria to public television for having any device that is remotely capable of receiving TV or radio – even if you only watch free TV, they drive around in buses with measuring instruments and bust your ass.
    In 2013 the fee will be replaced with a general tax in Germany that every household has to pay, even if you have NO device at all at home. So stfu about TV being free.

    And a last fuck you for saying no one in the west buys DVDs and Blu-rays. Why would anyone, if they only offer this badly dubbed and censor-butchered shit years later?
    How many Japanese are there who only watch the shows on TV and never buy a disc or merchandise? I’ll hazard a guess: A LOT!

  • Well I know that fansubing is piracy bu I use it anyway, in my opinion the worst problem is the delay of official releases.

    The american and european markets need to wait some time sure but other places like here in Brazil need to wait forever! Take the case of Haruhi for exemple it is very famous and it is not a anime whith problems like to much echi like Strike Witches or other but to this date NOTHING of Haruhi has come to Brazil, no anime, no manga, no light novel!

    I can speake some english (very bad as you can see in this lines) and could use a version whith english subtitles (a english dub would be almost beyond my capabilites)but and the lot of brazilians anime fans who just speake portuguese? Thay are stuck with portuguese fansubs, there is no other option!

  • i agree with them, but over here is hard to get anime legally or way too expensive, i supported the animax channel but it failed for getting 4Yo series(payed a lot more for cable),now internet is the only way i have.

    also most of raw providers are japanese(or living there)so i think is mostly a local problem.

  • RaspberryKisses says:

    i support funsubs without them i wouldn’t be an otaku and buy all those expensive figures, J-rpgs, and all those trips to Japan. Yes i don’t pay for my anime and some of my manga. but i pay for goods and trips to japan. it’s a win win situation.

  • “Even in Japan there are scumbags who sub western films and then upload them, and get treated like gods for doing it.”

    And I completely respect this. They are not “scumbags” at all. Also, downloading a fansub is not equal to not buying. I have spent hundreds of dollars very recently on anime and manga. Over $1000 this year. And the Japanese channels which broadcast these programs, are not available in my area. Japanese people have a choice between watching the shows on television, and buying the DVDs. And they are able to immediately watch them, even sooner than the fansub downloaders.

    If Japanese people get to see them soon, so should non-Japanese. They don’t deserve to have an advantage for watching anime just because they were born in Japan.

    As for learning a language, I think that learning a language just to enjoy a media, is one of the silliest reasons to learn a language I’ve ever heard in my life.

  • “Even in Japan there are scumbags who sub western films and then upload them, and get treated like gods for doing it.”

    And I completely respect this. They are not “scumbags” at all. Also, downloading a fansub is not equal to not buying. I have spent hundreds of dollars very recently on anime and manga. Over $1000 this year. And the Japanese channels which broadcast these programs, are not available in my area. Japanese people have a choice between watching the shows on television, and buying the DVDs. And they are able to immediately watch them, even sooner than the fansub downloaders.

    If Japanese people get to see them soon, so should non-Japanese. They don’t deserve to have an advantage for watching anime just because they were born in Japan.

    As for learning a language, I think that learning a language just to enjoy a media, is one of the silliest reasons to learn a language I’ve ever heard in my life.

  • if fansubbers are the reason of collapse of american anime market, then do even better than. no use blameing anime lover who want the fastest, better sub to watch.

    I lol’ed on they are playing a lot more than us, yes.

    on 3DS and love plus that is

  • am I seeing this correctly? are all trying to JUSTIFY THIS SITUATION? Are you all fucking 3 years old? The fact is simple, this is a form of piracy. With that said though, because of these acts, is why the anime industry was able to become so big. One of those gray areas. Though, the truth is that it’s illegal, and SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED.

    • Hey, I’m cool with getting official releases.

      But the question is this: Is the industry getting the titles here? Promptly?

      Like I said earleir, the industry, at least here in the USA, is usually terribly, terribly late. Years, years, and years. And if it isn’t a high-profile, “Flavor of the Month” type of show, you will never see it officially brought over.

      So, if the industry just refuses to adjust when clearly there is a fanbase waiting for releases, WTF do you want us to do?

      Wait 10 years and keep praying the stuff comes over if it hasn’t still?

      Hell no.

      If the industry won’t support the fanbase, then, like I said, the fanbase will support itself.

      Fansubbers came out in a time when the support wasn’t at all there. Even in recent years, the support has been shoddy at best. Again, esp. if you are interested in a more obscure title. Since the industry support *still* isn’t there, then the community will continue to support itself.

      Because that’s what it’s been doing the entire time. And Fansubbers are an expression of that.

      Like it or not, that’s the way it is. Because quite oftenly, the fans out here are left to dry to begin with. Always has been.

      I mean… why the hell do you think fans outside of Japan have to usually order anime goods from stores in Japan to begin with?

      Why? Because the support for all intents of purposes was never there to begin with in the USA. The support is miniscule or for the majority of areas, nonexistent.

      So again, we’ll take care of ourselves if the indsutry refuses to do anything but b*tch and moan.

    • Just like pirating music, ebooks, and games should not be tolerated. But that’s where the logic is flawed, it will always be tolerated. For example, Microsoft, from my understanding, was the first to release an OFFICIAL way of ripping your music CDs to the computer, which only helped piracy. Since there many companies (including Japanese companies) have produced methods to rip music and many other products to computer. Point: Piracy has been around forever and will continue to be no matter what. Compare to Terrorism, even if you stamp out all the terrorist groups in the world, Terrorism will still exist because its a word, not a specific individual. Everyone Pirates to a degree.

      The problem in Japan are people like Ishihara where Japanese people blindly follow the corrupt and the idiotic. Do Japanese not think for themselves? Do they not invoke their own rights? Why don’t they get their own heads out of their asses and realize that things are way bigger than that tiny island in the Pacific. Being a world power means things a country says or does affects other countries. Japan has yet to realize this because they only care for themselves.

  • TheSwordUser says:

    I think its still more legal than,say, having fansubbers making their own DVD with downloaded anime an selling that on black market for profit, because “It would never’ve been officially released over here anyway”.

    Also, if comes to DVDs and BDs, don’t forget about one thing: Region Locking.
    I won’t buy something that can’t be technically played in my region w/o buying another DVD/BD player just for that.
    So it would get even more expensive with already overpriced animes (like 80 bucks or more for an hour worth of screen time, what kind of deal is this?!). Sorry, but only limited ammount of people can actually support the industry with bollocks prices like that.

    Btw, I bought entire DVD set of Shakugan no Shana (1st season) for maybe 40 dollars. That was about 2 years ago.

    40 dollars for 24 episodes
    80 dollars for 2 episodes

    Isn’t it bloody obvious that it’s just not worth the price (even if it’s full of tits or whatever)?

    And besides, you think WHY I’ve even decided to buy that DVD set in the first place? If it wasn’t for fansubbers I wouldn’t be even aware of existance of this series.

  • I’m not an American, but the Japanese sure can be hypocrites sometimes. I know this ROM site that’s apparently very popualr among Japanese speakers, the top search entries always have “JPN” in them (mostly DS titles).

    Besides, I’m sure many of them pirate anime as well. They don’t need the subs, so they probably get the raws/subbed anime and turn off the subs.

  • “‘Japanese must distribute anime freely at the same time as it airs in Japan – if they don’t, fansubbing will continue forever.’”

    This is correct, it’s the same with anything the world over, whether it be games, movies or anime. People in one part of the world don’t want to have to wait longer for something they know others are already getting elsewhere. Obviously the point of getting anime for nothing doesn’t seem right, but if you think about it, if there were no fansubs the anime producers would be no better off as there’d be no real way for US and Europe to obtain it. It’s like laying claim to money that you’ve not even made yet.

  • Why can’t they see things from our perspective? There’s no way all animes out there that are fansubbed will get released in the US. The chances fall when thinking about other countries.
    Isn’t anime produced to enjoy it, no matter where you live and what language you’re speaking? Oh, it seems not to be the case, they produce it for money.

  • At least you all CAN buy something official…
    Here, in my country, which has been nominated as the third highest piracy country, I buy a game which I though official only to be disappointed because when I go online it said that my CD-key is invalid…

    Hell, why should I buy a pirated product when I can get it free?
    My policy always buy the official when it available (One Piece, the manga though not the anime, for example)…
    But what I suppose to do when it isn’t even exist?

  • The problem 2ch is not understanding is that the majority of anime is not released anywhere in the world. You have to wait years for an anime to get released in the US, and even then it’s not guaranteed that it will be the one you want.

    They talk about if we would feel the same way if they subbed Western Cartoons and Disney films…Well they don’t have to because those films have been and are released in Japan.

    I can’t blame 2ch for their comments, but I don’t think they understand the circumstances.

  • CLEARLY we should apologize to 2Ch for not being a community of pussies who bend to the will of asshole masters. Please excuse us for not paying $80 for two episodes of blu-ray moeblob.

    If it weren’t for fansubs and scans, I would’ve dropped anime already and put my money into games. My interest in it is dying enough already with all the moeblob shit that gets made all the time.

  • my favourite part was the guy comparing learning japanese to learning english as if both were equally useful and widespread languages.

    There is a large difference in learning a language that is pretty much usefull in any civilised part of the world as well as the main language in programs etc (English) and learning A language that is mainly spoken into one tiny part of the world and can help to understand untranslated video games manga and anime (and it is insanely harder language to learn too).

    funsubbing is not a purelly legal activity but the guys who do it normally do not even get any profits for it.

    Unlike pure piracy of things avialable on the same language as the end user the fault fistly lies on the publishers who make a rotten job or nothing at all at making their work available overseas

  • I’m not sure about the economics of it all but we do have DVDs and stuff here for sale at localized prices which is affordable to the people living here.

    If their anime was available here with that same system I wouldn’t mind grabbing the DVDs as they come out just to support the anime company.

    Asking me to order a DvD online at the cost of half my salary is a bit much.

  • I’m not sure about the economics of it all but we do have DVDs and stuff here for sale at localized prices which is affordable to the people living here.

    If their anime was available here with that same system I wouldn’t mind grabbing the DVDs as they come out just to support the anime company.

    Asking me to order a DvD online at the cost of half my salaray is a bit much.

  • Living in the UK fansubbing is the only way to get ahold of some of the more obscure titles and its a hell of alot more freindly on the pocket, Take Full Metal Alchemist…in the UK it was initialy released as a 13 dvd colection and at £20 per DVD a total of £260 was definetly not worth the money, if i had watched the fansub i would still buy it but only as a boxset…if they are that worried about how fansubbing affects their sales then they should seriously think about improving the quality of anime rather than the almost hentai crap thats floating about.

  • All the arguments fansubbers make seem to be moot points . If ALL anime was readily available would they stop ? No . If anime was legaly advertised as much or more than fansubbing could would they stop ? No . I think it’s a little naive to think that fansubbing exists solely because the anime industry is lacking . I agree with the poster who stated that fansubbing needs to be taken more seriously and get cracked down for good .

    • The collection of official anime DVDs I have begs to differ. But I view the Fansubs because the industry isn’t doing crap in bringing the titles I want over.

      Like I said in my earlier comment, when can I even begin to *hope* they even *start* porting over the following to the USA?

      Macross Zero
      Macross Frontier
      Legend of Galactic Heroes

      Any idea?


      They’re not doing anything about it. Legend of Galactic Heroes is a huge series but was released decades ago. You want to take bets as to when LOGH is going to get released? How about within the next decade? Hmm?

      Like I also said in my previous comment, the amount of stuff that DO get official releases here is miniscule. And frankly, I got tired for a long time seeing the only official releases were DBZ and Yu-gi-oh.

      What this means to me is this: The shows I want are never getting official releases. It’s pretty damn apparent when years lapse after a show is released / completed and there’s no hint of an American release.

      So in other words, screw you. The community will take care of itself since the industry just wants the money without really doing much in providing the service.

      Believe it or not, we do like trying to watch other anime that isn’t only DBZ or Yu-gi-oh.

  • I’ve lurked on this site for a long time. Anyways…

    I’ve been a fan of anime since I was a kid. When I was a kid in the Philippines in the late 70s, I recall watching stuff like Voltes V, Daimos, and Mazinger Z. Coming to America and growing up here in the 1980s, I later got into Macross (courtesy of Robotech then seeing the original JP ver years later). Also watched these Americanized titles: Battle of the Planets, Capt.Harlock, Starblazers. Loved them. But you know what? That’s all I got as far as anime for the entire decade of the 1980s. Pretty damn hard to get anime in the USA in the 1980s and even the 1990s.

    Anyways, I support anime when I can by getting the bonafide DVDs / Blu-Rays, and various artbooks. I’m more than happy to fork over money for official products. I’m an old school guy. I prefer having an official, hard copy of something.

    I’ve heard about the Fansubbing issue, knew about them since the mid-late 90s. Fansubbers really started in the late 90s from what I recall. In the days when the industry practically gave no support to fans (at least here in the USA). Naturally, it was up to the fans to take care of themselves since the industry barely lifted a finger to help. Titles were very few. I’ve been pretty neutral about it, especially about the legality of it these days. But I want official releases, but there lies the problem.

    Anime takes FOREVER, several years after a show is done in Japan before you even hear about it beginning to be brought to the USA. But you know what? In all likeliness, if a show, especially if it isn’t a big-name title / series, or just not as well known in the USA, will likely never, ever, EVER even come in an official fashion to America.

    Tell me, when can I even begin to see official releases of Macross Zero and Macross Frontier over here in the USA? Macross DYRL? How about Legend of Galactic Heroes? Hmm? When? Will it ever happen?

    There are alot of shows fans here would like to get a copy of. The anime industry lags years and years behind or they never even bother.

    So, you still insist I buy some official DVD / Blu-Ray / CD / etc.?

    GREAT, I’D LOVE TO. Just give me an actual official release in decent time. Or hell, how about putting English subtitles in those official Japanese blu-ray releases? For those of us that prefer original Japanese voices and subtitles? Also considering that Japan and the Americas are in the same Region Code these days with Blu-Ray? And still release a later package with English dubs / voice-actors for the dub inclined fans? I know dubbing takes alot more work.

    No, the industry in Japan isn’t going to do that, are they? We sure as hell aren’t getting the support on these shores. Well, if so, then the fans will take care of ourselves like we’ve been doing since the 1980s and 1990s.

    America, like other places, has some hardcore anime fans. How the hell do you explain us bothering to buy artbooks, magazines, etc. written in a language that by far most of us can’t even read? 😀

    The industry in both sides of the “pond” of the Pacific isn’t giving the fans, at least here in the US, the prompt support… or any support at all. It’s been that way. Always. It has gotten better in recent years, but there’s far, far too many shows that people want to get into but officially CAN’T.

    And so we got the Fansubbers. Just an ultimate expression of the fans taking care of their own community, because the companies will not do so.

    So, are we left to fend for ourselves?


    We’ll take care of our own, then.

  • Yeah, it’s easy to judge when you have all those manga and DVDs in your country, when you can just go and buy it, when it’s broadcasted in your TV for free or small fee.
    Where I live, there’s less than 20 manga titles available to buy. What am I saying? Half of those is MANHWA! DO NOT WANT! D: I’ve bought those few manga I’m interested in and waiting for new titles or volumes of those I have – if there are any.
    With anime, it’s even worse. I buy what I can so I have like one DVD set and five other DVDs with anime movies or OVAs. That’s like 70% of all the anime market here. I wanted to buy Elfen Lied DVD set but it was sold out before I even could! And they won’t sell it anymore. T-T
    The few shows in our TV is usually Bleach, Naruto, Inu Yasha and very few others. Some of them are not even worth watching like Parappa the Rapper or Dogtato-kun (dog that is a potato in real) for example – what the hell is that supposed to be? What a joke!
    Merchandise is rare and usually in terrible quality. I bought some Sakura and Syaoran mousepad in the only eshop here which focuses on anime and manga and damn, what a piece of crap! Absolutely not worth the money, it didn’t even work properly. I didn’t even know that mousepad can not to work properly until I bought this thing.
    The few quality figures we have here are beautiful…. but overpriced as hell. My wallet will bleed one day if I buy one of them.
    Maybe it would be cheaper for me to buy anime and manga related stuff from foreign shops but I’m worried about the shipment and reliability.

    Damn you 2ch, you have NO IDEA!

  • For the people who support fansubbing, I’d have to say I don’t sympathize with you at all. Fansubs kill the market.

    But there are 3 problems with Japan getting anime to America.

    1. It takes too long for the anime to come to the US in good quality subs. By the time it does, it’s usually out of the popular circle in Japan.

    2. When it does reach the US it’s often butchered, or localized extensively. Though it has gotten only slightly better.

    3. American subtitles and dvd’s are crap video quality. They are very pixilated.

    And as for Crunchy Roll. Yeah it sucks I agree with the Japanese. But Crunchy Roll never pirated Japanese anime, they hosted it. Then they got a clue and realized it was wrong to do this. So now they are working along with Japanese TV networks to air anime. Their subtitles are still crap though.

    So what do I have to say. Fansubs are bad, but the American industry isn’t really up for quality items, aka dvd releases. They sell at cheap rates and are produced cheaply. With a budget they use no wonder the subtitles aren’t crisp or video quality is fuzzy. Upping the price probably won’t help now but had they done this in the very beginning perhaps the American industry would have had a better budget to produce better quality.

  • buying dvd’s in the u.s. wouldn’t support the japanese market anyway it would support our own market. granted money earned here is used to buy rights to things from there but it can’t be too much considering how much cheaper anime is sold for in the u.s. compared to japan. really japan should be a bit more annoyed by the prices they have to pay for their stuff.

  • AnnaKuramoto says:

    “Summary: ‘We’re not thieves. We just like anime. We won’t watch it if we have to pay.’ ”
    Why would they order something from overseas that isn’t even in English? Fansubbers aren’t subbing stuff released in the US, that would be redundant.

    “If Japan treated Disney cartoons and Hollywood movies like they treated our anime, the US government would go ballistic!”
    1. We do.
    2. You can find Disney cartoons and Hollywood movies outside of a Japanses torrent site. In Japanese no less.

    “The translation abilities of fansubbers are so pitiful it’s a wonder anyone thinks they can form a valid opinion of an anime by watching them.”
    They do a much better job then we do with English.

    “They refuse to learn Japanese – just look at all the Japanese who learn English to watch their films. What spoilt brats.”
    No we learn “Engrish”. If we properly learn the filty barbarian’s tongue our kin look at us funny. I speak from experience.

    “This is just what you’d expect of people who are satisfied with the video quality you get with fansubs.”
    It’s that or nothing.

    “Having these people watch our anime might encourage more censorship. It would be best if they didn’t watch them.”
    Bullshit. It’s not their fault our politicians are all either weak or corrupt.

    “What really pisses me off is when weekly manga are scanned and translated even before you can buy it in the shops here.”
    and each chapter takes weeks to get translated.

    “They think they are entitled to watch it all for free now, so they won’t buy anything. Do they think this stuff is produced by some sort of natural process!?”
    See first quote.

    “Look at the prices on the NA editions! It’s that cheap and they still won’t buy it!? It’d be a bargain sale price in Japan.”
    Our pricing is insane, as is our economy in general.

    “And they do make money from this in spite of it being a ‘volunteer effort.’ They are happy to accept donations – it doesn’t matter how hard the creators work on it, the praise and the money ends up with them in the end.”
    For site upkeep. Not their pockets.

    “And let’s not forget a certain site which targeted Japanese anime, pirated them and distributed them online for free, then became a multimillion dollar enterprise – Crunchy Roll, started by a Chinese-American.”
    Crunchroll is despised by westerners for making money off fansubs.

    “In a little while this thread will be translated and made into an article on some foreign site, and they’ll leave out the inconvenient stuff above and just start a huge flamefest.”
    Seems verbatim to me.

  • Cry moar Japan, cry moar!
    With your declining birth rates, and significance as an economic power China will rape your little island in the next century or so, and then you will be forced to grovel and beg one race of hairy gaijin to save your cherry from another!
    Obviously you either adapt to the times or you go the way of the dinosaurs. Dear Japan, you need to google “globilization”, “racism”, “net neutrality” and get with the times…

  • Xenophobic and ass-backward lot, aren’t they?
    If it wasn’t for us hairy gaijin they would still be playing around with swords like cavemen… and they wouldn’t have western technology like say the very internet they are using to clog up that sewer known as 2ch with their shitty opinions…

    I don’t understand how they can have a reputation of being friendly, pleasant and respectful peoples when they are so racist, spiteful and fast to throw blame around. Instead of blaming the overseas market (a market which hasn’t ever brought significant profit to anime publishers – because it wasn’t taken seriously) for the decline of the anime industry they should get on the publisher’s backs and tell them to start making quality anime, not that moe-moe shit… The Japanese have stopped buying anime, not us dirty gaijin because we’ve never bought anything to begin with, isn’t that right? Maybe if Japanese publishers started to target us hairy gaijin as customers and treat us with due respect we filthy gaijin will bail out your crippled industry!

    Still there are a few who manage to stay objective and logical:

    “It’s also true that without fansubs anime wouldn’t have spread overseas like it did. And there are a lot of people like this in Japan itself.”

    – That is the most important point. Without fansubs anime would have never gathered global interest such as it has now.

    “Even without having a fee system, they can still make something by advertising on the videos, can’t they? It’s not a huge effort for the producers to sub and provide official versions of their anime with minimal lag. It’s better than just having everyone watch them for nothing.”

    – The publishers themselves should air their anime on their own websites (not Crunchyroll). If done correctly they can make significant money just from advertising… It’s better than nothing in any case!

    “Even at ¥980, this season’s crop of moe anime would never sell 100,000 copies. US prices for anime are from half to a tenth of what we pay – but the market is still collapsing.”

    -Well yeah… Who would pay actual money to buy that shit? Besides a virgin Japanese hikikomori anime otaku that is…

    Mostly stupid comments though:
    “If Japan treated Disney cartoons and Hollywood movies like they treated our anime, the US government would go ballistic!”

    -Hollywood movies are the most widely torrented files you retard! Not Japanese anime! And for all their bitching, publishers still can’t do jack-shit about it! You are totally clueless.

  • Downloading and funsubbing something should be legal, as long as it is yet to be licensed in your country. Whatever they say, us downloading something we can’t buy yet gives them NO MONEY LOSS. I don’t understand what they are unhappy for.

  • “So far they have been saying this:
    ‘Japanese must distribute anime freely at the same time as it airs in Japan – if they don’t, fansubbing will continue forever.’
    So some Japanese makers tried to accommodate them even with their meagre budgets.
    They distributed the Tower of Druaga free on YouTube.
    What happened? The fansubbers ripped off the subs and began distributing their own version in higher resolution.
    Ore no Imouto was also being simulcast in the US.
    What happened? The show was leaked online before it even aired, and then redistributed and they hastily cancelled the whole thing.
    They try to make out as if they are benevolent volunteers. But really their morals are completely absent.”

    Well… He got a point.

  • I support the anime industry by buying anime toys of shows I’ve downloaded, and the eventual US DVDs of shows I really like. Most of my money goes to Figma and Revoltech.

    At least I’m giving you assholes in Japan whatever I can afford!

  • Ive decided to read more of these comments..

    God… these people are stupid. Talking about talking out of their ass without knowing anything. Its almost troll-like too. I bet you if they understood the story from the other side, they would regret saying what they did.

    Does 2ch get sankaku?

  • “They refuse to learn Japanese – just look at all the Japanese who learn English to watch their films. What spoilt brats.”

    Oh my god. Are the Japanese retarded? English is considered a universal language thats why its taught in most european and asian schools. Japanese is NOT a universal language.

  • Anime subs are almost always better fan-made anyway. Not to mention the fact of RELEASE DATES.

    Anime have pretty slow release dates when comparing english to japanese.

    But manga? FORGET IT.

    Manga comes out at least 1-2 YEARS behind. Also not mentioning the fact that stores RARELY carry any good seinen.
    I’d rather not order anime, wait a week to get it, and be paying just as much as I would in time for going to the movies.

    Sure fansubbers are hypocrites, but everyone appreciates there service. The anime industry is putting out so much moe anime its sad, and i’d rather not pay to see that crap.

  • Japan gets the anime aired on television. America does not. Japan can technically copy/record the aired shows with certain equipment. America cannot since anime is rarely aired on actual television.

    Fansubs do two things that are important. The first is that it gives Americans the same pre-viewing that Japan gets. Since America does not have most anime airing fansubs are American’s way of previewing the anime.

    2chan is a bit hypocritical if they are saying they support the anime simply by watching it on tv. If they don’t buy it they are more or less doing the same thing.

    2nd. Most anime released in Japan does not get picked up until much much later after it aired. Look how long it has taken rosario+vampire, phantom of inferno, etc… not to mention if the 2chaners had the unfortunate chances of being forced to listen to the american dubs I’m sure they’d sing a different tune (pun intended).However this is not my point; my point lies in the fact that without fansubs it is doubtful the anime industry would even survive in America.

    Fansubs allow people to view before buying. If people say this is illegal then so are libraries, rental places, viewing friends dvds, etc… If these type of places to watch shows did not exist then the majority of us would never actually see the shows and in turn not buy.

    I believe we have fansubs to thank for the anime industry actually managing to survive in America.

    In regards to not buying anime because of fansubs that isn’t true. Often if people like it enough after giving it a tv-like previewing through the internet they will go out and buy it. not all mind you but many do.

    I also have to laugh at the stupid comment about ATX being available world wide…it may indeed be available world wide but it isn’t translated in a language other people can actually understand.

    I must also comment about the stupidity of the statement that fansubbers may increase censorship. My only question is how?

    needless to say 2ch is probably one of the most unreliable places to get opinions on anything and the fact people make such a big deal (both americans and japanese) is kinda pathetic.

    I’ll stop typing because 2ch makes me lose my will to care.

  • 25% of Japs are running pirated copies of Windows. I wonder how many of the people complaining about evil gaijin stealing Japanese culture paid for their OS?

    They also completely misunderstand the reason why Westerners pirate anime. Unlike Japanese otaku, who are used to taking it up the arse from publishers, Westerners won’t put up with poor quality translations at obscene prices. They’ll pirate if they think they’re being ripped off and pay if they think they’re getting a fair deal.

    And they don’t take into account the “The West” =/= America. Maybe it’s easy to legally get hold of anime in the US, but in many countries it’s very rare to see anime and manga being sold and even rarer to see anything other than Naruto/One Piece/Bleach.

  • I have access to a huge number of free translations of Japanese fantasy fiction stories, because I have access to a shocking institution called a LIBRARY.

    Do the Japanese know that their authors have been allowing their fantasy stories to get printed in English?

    And then, horror of horrors, these books can be placed in libraries where ANYONE can borrow them and read them FOR FREE!

  • wow do they just not get how anime works or what?

    they get it on tv for basicly free (STFU with your “tv isnt free” shit, it is, you pay forthe provider to give it to you, and you only pay more for premium channels) while we only get the top 1-5% (ratings based) of anime on tv.

    we get it 1-2 years later, meh dubed, and translated funny – they know japanese. the argument to make us learn japanese is retarded, they are a closed off country who barely like to play nice with others, in a global economy, the language is pointless unless you are moving there for the long haul, and japan requires students to learn english, in america, my school at least, japanese isn’t even offered, however spanish, french, german, and russian are, or at least were, i don’t know about right now.

    now american side has said, and i find this hilarious, that they can not offer as high a quality product as fansubers. and they refuse to use the methods that fansubbers have developed over they years, even though the people want them.

    and ill direct japans attention to south park studios. where every episode of south park is hosted, (nearly, fucking 200 and 201, and super best friends, fucking muslems) where they pull profit from people watching it because they sell commercials for 1-3 minutes total per episode. is there any reason they cant do this? in america or in japan, after the initial season and dvds/bd’s are sold, you know cut into the pirate market, internationally?

  • Has everyone forgotten that NISA is releasing Toradora subbed in the states? In any case, I think subs are overall beneficial. Subs should mostly stop if the anime industry picks up its game and allow foreigners to watch shows within 1 week of original broadcast.

    • Yeah but keep in mind Anon, its been almost a year since Toradora was licensed. Feb 02, 2010 was the date of the article that ANN has. Fansubs can get a series fully subbed quicker than that. Why does it take NISA a year or more to sub a series? They’re not even putting a dub track on it from my understanding.

  • We live in a society where if it isn’t a physical object and you aren’t getting it for free, people will steal it. This is not restricted to anime in any way. I agree with what one of those 2ch guys said the one about the world being connect by the Internet and how you ave to do a simultaneous release otherwise interest is lost. By the time it hits the shores everyone already pirated it and saw it. I also feel the pain of the Japanese people because here in Australia, buying a game at the store (and even steam now!) is around 90-110 dollars.

    Americans really don’t know how good they have it.

    • It’s not that we have it good, its because you guys allow for such exhorbent prices. Each economony is different. Everything is cheaper here in the U.S. because the dollar was strong up until a couple years ago. Now prices have been going up on alot of domestic products like manga and anime because the dollar as weakened. That arguement how “America has it easy” is wrong. How about you guys come and live in America for a while and truly see whats going on?

  • Cheeky indeed. It would be nice if fansubbers like them actually represented the entire fansub support community. They don’t. They’re a group of uneducated individuals who think they know which direction the American anime market should take, and they give other fansubbers a bad name by having the gall to think they are exerting some sort of influence over that market. This is the media at work once again… letting a few morons speak for everyone else, and 2chan people who take one article’s word for it are just as dense.

  • “They refuse to learn Japanese – just look at all the Japanese who learn English to watch their films. What spoilt brats.”

    Comparing english to japanese…. English is a fucking world lanuage, unlike japanese.

  • You can’t trust 2ch in regards to issue of piracy of any kind. They lack the knowledge and continue to actively shy away from understanding the issue.

    Most of the stupid comments they’ve made can easily be avoided by simply reading up on the roots and technical history behind piracy.

  • Greetings from SLOVENIA


    I’m from Slovenia and there aren’t ANY DISTRIBUTERS for anime except German and Italy (all sinchronized) 🙁 I want language in japanesse and subb in english.

    Americans could really wait because they can get anywhere on the streets.

    In Slovenia NOWHERE, so my only reserve is to download from the internet.

    Have a nice day and ANIME 4 EVER (ANIME ZA VEDNO):D hehe

    • What makes it even harder is the massive red tape Foreign distributers have to go through to license said series and release it subbed/dubbed in other countries like the U.S. It goes back to the major chokehold that Japanese companies have on their products and their unwillingness to deal with foreign markets. I liked Akamatsu’s idea with his website, however the downside was that no one would click the ads. However it’s a step in the right direction in getting product out on a global scale. The other downside to Akamatsu’s release of Love Hina was the fact it was the Japanese version. Now say, if the English version of Love Hina was offered on the website as well for a fee thats about half of what the actual volume cost in paper form, I would’ve purchased it. As its been said before, the current Japanese model is outdated. It doesn’t allow for new technology.

      Now it’s uncommon but has happened where fansubbers would get hired by actual companies to translate, etc. If say, 10 of the major fansubs groups out there got hired by legit companies in Japan to translate and distribute (of course a small fee per episode to watch), I’m sure that people would pay the small fee to watch each episode. Say, a buck and episode, multiply that by the number of viewers for the show equals a decent profit. Hell, I would bet that the Japanese companies wouldn’t need to pay the fansubbers much either cause Fansubbers already do this stuff on their free time anyway. The small intake of money would be a small incentive to continue doing it plus offset the cost of server(s). Its a possible business model that could only serve to benefit Japanese companies and their anime. Now say an anime bombshells through that type of distribution, then nothing is lost. The small amount of money that was gained from the people who did purchase an episode or two will just go back to the company in dues. Lets all keep in mind fansubbers fansub for free, so expectations of cash flow isn’t there.

  • I firmly believe that so long as Japan takes their sweet time releasing English dub/english sub anime there will ALWAYS be fansub groups.

    Companies claim that it takes time to release a good product, but these fansubbers AND the people who DL them apparently do care about dubbing for english voice actors.

    Also another reason is the HORRIBLE pricing. DVD’s are being sold here for $9-10 bucks. It makes no sense to get 2 episodes for $40. Your just asking them to DL this illegally.

    Anime companies HAVE to reevaluate their business model. Its not as it was 20 years ago… a lot of anime companies collapsed not as a result of the evil fansub business. The anime market in America is definitely not as it was in the 2003’s.

    I would fully promote a subscription based model if I can get anime the SAME time it was released in Japan with english subtitles as well as manga. Not a week later or a month later, but SAME DAY. Thats how you’ll compete! No one will buy a DVD containing 2 episodes only to wait 6 months for the next DVD and then the series is over….

  • They do know that it’s their fault we can “pirate” right? I mean they would have to put the media online and even then someone has to buy the media that is being pirated in the first place. Besides most people buy the series they like when it comes out anyway.

  • It’s funny how 2chan is made up of how many Japanese who haven’t even step foot in America? How can they go on to say “Just wait for it to come out on DVD!”

    People need to get it through their thick skulls that not even 25% of what gets released in Japan ever makes it to the U.S. market. The Japanese companies have chokeholds on their licensing and won’t even loosen the grips to the international community to allow for mass anime to hit the foreign communities. Only the most successful of animes ever see the light of day elsewhere in today’s world (aside from the couple obscure animes that get lucky).

    Fact remains that there is alot of anime that doesn’t make it outside of Japan, yet that’s the anime foreign audiences want to see. For example, Toradora! was pretty well recieved by international communities (at least I see quite a few people talk about it), yet despite being finally licensed, we’re still waiting for a DVD release. How long as it been since it first aired in Japan? Two years? 2chan shows their lack of information of foreign markets once again.

    Fansubs are illegal but if we’re gonna get anime in our laps in less than 6 months, Fansubs is all we got to use or else foreign countries will be behind the times while Japan thinks “Oh, that series came out so long ago, why are you guys talking about it now?”

  • To add to the 2ch comments, a lot of anime fans in the US are your typical Generation Y filth: indifferent to almost everything, morally bankrupt (and this is coming from someone with loose morals) and having such a ridiculous sense of entitlement.

    Compare this to your average anime fan in Japan: ronery guys in their 40s, living in small apartments with no (3D) girlfriends; the difference in attitude is pretty much expected.

    The older generation will continue to look down on the younger generation, while the younger generation will not give a shit and just wonder why they aren’t getting everything for free.

  • I was under the impression that fansubbing made Macross F big around the world? I mean, you have to admit, that when you have something like the internet to move data across countries instantly, this is bound to happen.

    It’s also just as bad when people post up Blu-Ray copies/DVD copies of series/movies/OVA releases. To be honest, if you want a SHOT at the international market with Anime (in a ligit way), the DVD/Blu-Ray really needs to add their own English subs. In terms of anime products, however, I think people buy REAL ONES b/c they are official. No one likes to buy fake shit -especially when figures cost 40-200 per.

    Regardless, until there is a valid, official, and effective way to stream anime without losing quality and can be accessed ANY TIME, ANY WHERE, ANY DATE (meaning from whatever location, I can watch whatever anime title I want to, without a time constraint of it being deleted), I am sticking to downloading raws. It just sucks since RAWs are harder to get than Subs.

    • “Regardless, until there is a valid, official, and effective way to stream anime without losing quality and can be accessed ANY TIME, ANY WHERE, ANY DATE”

      And FOR FREE, I suppose ? I’m going to save your time : It. Will. Not. Happen.

  • When we do the same job, often in better quality, FOR FREE, within 24 hours, as opposed to the western anime companies who spend motnhs or years on English transations, they need to get their shit together first.

    • And then the official releases give you bullshit like Princess Ressurection. Way to stave people off from buying the official copies, companies that can’t even get the damn subs right when that’s all they’re doing.

  • Fansubber’s excuses to make illegal distribution of anime in Western countries were right 10~15 years ago, but not anymore. Fansubbers don’t get it anymore : they hurt the Western market much more than they help it, for a very simple reason : Japanese companies are frightened to death when you try to negociate an early broadcast or simulcast on the Internet. For Japanese businessmen Western Internet = piracy, that’s as simple as that. And about anime, this opinion comes of course because Japanese animes were illegally and heavily distributed by fansubbers.

    Recently a well known European distributer stated that they’ve been wanting to do simulcast of Japanese animes for FOUR YEARS. Japan never agreed to do this because they were really frightened by internet piracy. Again in their mind internet = piracy. Now it’s very hard for Western editors to negociate simulcasts because fansubbers still illegally distribute animes that are BRODCASTED IN SIMULCAST WITH JAPAN. Seriously, WTF ? Yesterday when looking for The World God Only Knows on Google I found that the French editor that does simulcast for this series – FREE ! – was pirated and that the anime is FANSUBBED on another website !!!

    So again, maybe fansubbers did promote anime more than 10 years ago, but now it’s only BS. They’re more pirates than anything else. And don’t say that they’re helping to promote anime, huge animes like Naruto don’t need fansubbers. Actually, most of the viewers of shônen/shôjo type of anime on TV DON’T WATCH SUBTITLED ANIMES. Subtitled animes on TV means you loose 95% of your audience immediatly : general audience watch dubbed animes only.

    Not that I never watched fansubs in my life. But nowadays, fansubbers definitively need to agree that they’re more in the “illegal/piracy” side of the “market”. Stop bullshitting, just accept it.

  • Boo-hoo. Those dirty foreigners are watching “Generic Moe/Fanservice/Ecchi Anime #12345” for free (and likely going to forget about it), while us Japanese otaku pay thousands of yens for a single episode because we’re mindless zombies that feed greedy companies with our hard-earned cash to support an uninspired and exploitative industry.

  • Seriously. “Good things come to those who have the patience to wait.” What’s so hard about waiting for the DVDs/blurays when they are released here locally and then buying them? Hell, even renting them from something like Netflix or RentAnime. That’s how I usually watch a show that I’m not sure about, and make the final decision on whether or not to buy it.

    Especially at practically “dirt-cheap” prices, people here in the States have nothing to complain about. Especially with places like RightStuf and Roberts Anime Corner going even lower than the average listed prices.

    I usually shovel up a ton of good anime at good prices when they have their sales – and I don’t have much money to spend to start with. I just wait for the best times and prices to get it. And I’m far more careful about what I buy, as I don’t have as much as I used to have.

    If it’s something that never has or never will come to the US, then I might check the first episode. But if they’re not gonna bring it over, I guess I’ll just have to learn Japanese and go over there – or I just don’t need to watch that particular show.

    I want anime to continue in the US and I’ll be damned to let it slip away if there is something that I can do. Which is why I always make a point to -actually- buy the shows I like.

    So seriously, these whiners need to stop complaining about “the time it takes to be released in the States.” C’mon! Even if they just subbed it, it still takes time to complete! And even then, there’s always gonna be someone griping about the lack of a dub.

    Just be patient and buy the damned things when it’s -legally- possible to do so. The rest of us make an effort to do so. Even for the domestic US movies. you have to wait from the time it’s released in the theaters to the time it makes it to DVD/Bluray to be able to buy your own copy of it. What makes the fansubbers any different or more special?

    • Patience doesn’t allow me to buy anime figures when the anime FINALLY shows itself over here in the states. Get me ANY great figure from some popular television series that came out years ago for retail price. It’s like trying to find the first two seasons of Digimon officially in English. IT DOESN’T HAPPEN.

      • You know… I have figures of anime shows that I’ve never even seen. I never let the show dictate to me that I want a particular figure.

        It’s usually the other way around. I’ll buy the figure if I like it (whether I’ve seen the show or not)… and if I haven’t seen the show, usually I might try to seek out that show to watch it.

        Of course, I’ve found many a show that I might have the figures to, and when I watch said show, it ends up being worthless crap. But at least the figure is still good.

        So why should you have to watch a show first to want a figure? If there’s anything I’ve learned about figure collecting, it’s to grab it right then and there – or better yet, pre-order.

        • I’d rather not have a character that I know has a shitty attitude sitting on my shelf. There are way too many figures up for pre-order at any given time to not be picky, my money isn’t endless.

    • Whatever bud. That whole argument breaks down the second you talk about time. It might take a few months for an American movie to come to DVD\Blu-Ray true enough, but we are talking years here. And great big IF it comes out here. So we should wait years only to find out it won’t be coming here anyways? Yeah right. Patience isn’t a virtue it’s a flaw that can make people end up old and single and others pass up a once in a life time deal.

      • And you don’t know what patience is, apparently. So what if some domestic movies come out sooner? BFD. If there’s one thing I’ve learned in life: The immediate gratification, and instant [whatever] is almost never as good as the final realization of something I’ve waiting a good long time for.

        And in the end, I end up liking/loving it a -whole- lot more.

        • You’re talking about the very few occasions where the local DVD’s actually come out.

          Take the three Eldora robot animes for an example, you gotta have some crazy amounts of love to be still waiting for that one

  • ‘…Japanese…murmured “Those kids were cheeky, weren’t they?” ‘

    Heavens to Betsy, pass me the smelling salts, they were CHEEKY. I feel faint.

    To the 2ch types complaining about the fansub accuracy or quality I say “Harro Japaneser ferrows, speaky Engrish?”

    Japanese anime producers have issues similar to the American music and movie producers. Profits are dropping and the business model isn’t working. It’s convenient and easy to blame piracy,but it’s not true. Your business sucks because you have gotten fat and complacent, and your methods haven’t adapted to changing markets and conditions.

    Deliver the product the consumer wants at a viable price and piracy will become irrelevant.

  • Oh, well isn’t this funny. Let’s consider the facts shall we?

    WHERE do we get our raws from? Hm? Alot of them are TV recordings. I wonder who uploads them..

    Also, the known fact that how many anime titles are released in the states alone, nevermind the rest of the world, is incredibly small. Without the censor for the “safety” of the ADULTS (not the kids) who are too pussyfoot to act like what they actually are, fucking ADULTS, our stations will not air them.

    Alot of anime that are for older teens and young adults aren’t even licensed by companies here in the US because of that content. It’s because Japan is much more mature overall then the babies that make up the “adult” population of the States.

    Now, this doesn’t take into account any of the other countries in the world, that don’t even get HALF of what we do. If that. Some countries even ban some anime titles completely.

    Coming from someone who DOES download torrents of anime before companies license them, I believe that much of the anime that is subbed serves as a way to spread information and new anime titles to other fans. I understand that downloading them while licensed is illegal, but I also understand the business aspect as well.

    Companies do not release titles because a large population of the States are not mature enough mentally to handle the content in said titles. Therefor they will not make money off of it, so don’t release it. With this aspect, subbers get the titles from japan and distribute them, which spreads the titles and their popularity. Companies see this and try to take advantage of the popularity by licensing any anime that’s subbed and ride the money train off said acquired popularity.

    The problem with this is the fact that those who CREATED the anime in general, character designs, original script writers.. they don’t get NEARLY what they deserve money wise from the licensing companies, if they gain anything at all. And when there’s no money going to the original creators, I honestly do not believe that ANY company that licenses anime has any right to complain about the loss of money.

    I am a proud anime fan, an avid manga reader, and I support those who create and design anime and manga. But I DO NOT support the companies that steal from them.

    If there was a way to send money to the creators directly instead of paying those who moneyride off the popularity the fansubs and fansites bring, and get the said anime and/or manga in my own language without the creators needing to do this, By god that would be the best outcome possible.

    Piracy may be bad, but pure “legal” burglary is absolutely unacceptable, and I will NEVER tolerate this. Power to the fans. Down with the corrupt industry. And long live mature anime fans.


  • I agree that it’s pirating. There’s really no beating around the bush in that regard. That said, I do sympathize in that there are so many shows that simply will never ever release outside of Japan. So really, what other alternative is there?

    I do, however, not watch any fansubbed anime that is officially licensed. If it gets licensed for release in the US, I always always buy the shows that i want to watch. No exceptions.

  • Ok the Japanese people are overly sensitive about the dumbest shit in the fuckin world its ridiculous. Anime forreal.. They dont even support their own anime but as soon as we want 2 we they have a fuckin problem with it. They always talk about foreigners and how we do everything wrong or weird well look at their fuckin culture and the way they are.. Their the hypocrites im not a fan subber but come on now its getting ridiculous how much shit they can complain about its retarded I love japan and america but the shit japan does is annoying and this shit america does is bull shit and their both up their own asses especially the ones who get upset about dumb SHIT

  • An alternative would be: Learn Japanese and watch the raws floating in the interwebz. Watching fansubs would be the same thing, albeit not having you need to know the language. And anyways, who are the ones that uploads said rips in the first place? Most likely the Japanese themselves. We’re no different from each other is such aspects, really, other than the fact that we aren’t Japanese of course.

  • Japanese Otaku are just mad that they’re being ripped off by anime companies who overcharge them for everything, so they go looking for someone to blame. Fortunately, for Japanese people every single problem has the exact same cause, the foreign devils.

    Sure you can argue that it’s morally wrong for people in another country to pirate, but it’s really just a philosophical debate. Americans pirating anime don’t have any effect on the Japanese market whatsoever. Most anime companies never made any significant amount of money in the US anyway, and anime in Japan was overpriced long before the internet and fansubbing even existed. Americans pirating anime don’t cost those companies anything, and if all overseas anime fans found a new hobby tomorrow, it wouldn’t help or harm most companies at all.

  • so much hatred….. can’t they just hate the pirates and not everyone in America? There are people in America who buy stuff lol. :\ lol I think an easier solution is to actually air the anime they get even if its a day later on American tv stations.. xD

    Popular anime shows in America… Naruto, Dragonball, Gundams, InuYasha, yuyu hakusho, one piece, bleach, and theres probably more but thats all I can think of right now. But those shows were aired on major American tv stations……

    Wow , some of those became super popular…. What I do not understand is … the biggest problem is the internet cuz they get it and upload it and fans all around the world can watch it instantly so why the hell can’t the people in Japan in charge of distribution for anime upload it to the folks in the folks in the US to broadcast on their stations ?

    manga…. thats a whole different ballgame… what I wonder is how the hell do we get it before peeps in Japan get it? <_< another fix is find the rat in the group located in Japan lol.

    • Easy solution: Pay the translators to translate for american channels? That gives everybody a boost; sales, timelag (say 3 days after..).

      It’s the “want” and “profit” that are the key things.
      Since they cannot supply our demand, someone else does.

      That’s an economical thumb-rule. How backwards can one be?

  • LOL! Well what to say… Other than the usual stuff that comes out. All lot of them do have good ideas.

    In my own case, I would totally support giving all my money direct to the studios if the put english subs online. Hell, I’ve buy stuff from Funimation way after they bring stuff out and when I easily get it online. I’m guilty of watching fan-subs, but if there was another way I would leave them.

  • I have to agree with the fansubbers on this one. I don’t want to have to wait 1-2 years to watch an entire series (that’s the rate it usually takes for a 25 ep show to come out completely). However by that same token if I really like the show I do buy it, I have an entire bookcase full of dvd/BD and am looking to buy a new one for more anime.

    Also if Japan cared to actually sub their shit (Code Geass bluray and Tales of vesperia, I’m looking at you)more people would import. Cuz I don’t care about shitty funimation dubs.

  • “US prices for anime are from half to a tenth of what we pay – but the market is still collapsing.”

    Does Japan ever notice any country besides China, Germany, US and themselves? I wish I could pay “from half to tenth of what they pay” for the OUTDATED (at least 4 years old) anime we get here.

    Besides, I’m sure even US doesn’t get even half of what Japanese have in their anime libraries and never will. They should stop blaming other countries for their market collapsing, it’s not like ‘hairy foreigners’ are suddenly going to go and import all the anime for no reason and be stuck with a product they can’t understand.

    This, plus Blu-Rays are region locked.

    • > Blu-Rays are region locked.

      You know how Japan could get a whole nation of 23 million people to support its copyright concerns?

      Japan could extend diplomatic recognition to Taiwan. Taiwanese would buy huge, huge quantities of Japanese goods at any price.

      The Taiwanese would be willing to pay huge sums of money, plus commercial favors such as copyright treaties, etc.

      So, how about it, Japan? You aren’t scared of reprisals from China, right?

  • Every one in 2chan needs to go get laid or somethings.
    Fansubs are one of the main reason why you have a market outside japan and its the fault of the anime distributor here in the U.S. that they don’t sell well here because the quality is shit compared to the original, dubs sound like someone put nails in a blender and when they do bring anime they are ones that people don’t really give a shit about bring me something that I would like to watch again and again and I would love buy more anime DVDs or Blu-rays but your prices are fucking crazy just to buy a one cost around 60 to 80 with that I can buy 4 blu-rays movies or a season of any tv show here in the U.S. and don’t give me that bullshit and say that you never pirated because we know you have

  • Let’s be real here. People who just watch anime but don’t care about anime enough to pay and support the industry still wouldn’t buy it even if you take away the illegal free stuffs on the internet.

    The good news is that they wouldn’t really be bothered by having commercial interruptions when they’re watching their anime either, since you know, they’re not that hardcore of fans. So start an online free stream with ads in between that comes out the moment it’s aired in Japan. Since these assholes won’t be paying you money with or without illegal pirated copies. At least you’d still be paied by via the ads. Some money > No money at all.

    Actually… Since majority of people are this type of asshole, me included. Chances are you’d be making tons of money, not just some money. Perhaps even more than the money you earned from legit buyers.

  • I think they’d understand the fansubbing if they moved here.

    I like my anime figures and merch, so I’m not going to wait years for the show to come out here and have that chance the figures will be impossible to find (and if they aren’t, then they’re really expensive to get second hand ). If there’s a cute figure from a show I’m almost sure to love, then I’ll watch it as it airs. That’s translated to watching nearly everything as it airs so I can buy any figure of any character I want, knowing how the character acts. I won’t buy a figure of a character I don’t know, because what if I hate them in the series? Then I’m screwed.

    It doesn’t mean I don’t buy the anime or the manga whenever it lands here, though. I have quite a collection, I’ve spent probably over 20k in the past four years on anime goods, manga, anime boxsets, etc. And that number keeps growing. It would dwindle and halt if there was no subbing. Because then there’d be no feeling of safety in what I’m buying anymore.

  • It really is ridiculous. Most anime i hate nowadays with this moeblob crap i’d never watch anyways, so I usually download shows that are no longer available. But do they really think I’ll pay a rediculous amount like 50 bucks for only 13 episodes just because it finally came to the states? Although it is a lot cheaper than the 80 and 90 dollar box that used to be around. Then again shows had an average of 26 to 50 episodes back then as well.

  • I wish there were more stores that sell anime in america, many people resort to pirating just because it is too hard for them to get the anime they want around here. I live in Oklahoma and anime is hard to find around here, thus I resort to pirating. Trust me I would buy the anime if there were any stores that sold it around here.

  • I “pirate” mountains of software, movies, music, books, comics, games, etc etc etc etc. worth thousands of dollars. Business editions, premium editions, collector’s editions, remastered editions. Things that were cracked, stolen, leaked, ripped, copied… things that were emulated, imitated, replicated, duplicated…. Things I don’t need, things I will never use, things that I use once only to throw away like it’s garbage unworthy of my arrogant american superiority.

    Your precious anime that I have raped and violated so criminally is but a side-dish.

    These actions don’t know nationality. Neither supplier or receiver. Pirates distribute their wares to whoever wants them (isn’t that the point?) and they come from anywhere. Be xenophobic as you please (America certainly has ugly bits in her past) but you’re mixing the internet and the real.

    I await your denial, rabble. I want to hear you claim the gaming consoles in glorious nippon are never cracked, have no hard drives with “illegal” goodies. I want to hear you claim every song in your mp3 player was paid for.

    Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

  • Yes, we get it costa a lot to make. But that doesn’t mean that we are wrong to want it at a reasonable price. I would gladly buy some shows if they came out here, and I do end up importing some things.

    A lot of what I watch ends up not being a good show that I’d watch more than once. By their logic, I should buy it and then see if it’s any good, but the prices don’t justify that at all. The only smart way to go about it is watching the show and then buying it if I feel it is something I’ll watch again.

    Is their circumstance different? It sounds like it. If they want to waste their time and energy complaining about how great we have it instead of fixing their own pricing problems then they really don’t care as much as they say in the first place.

  • can someone help me out here. When the japanese people watch and record the anime shows from their Tv channels when its airing, It is fine. But we who live in other countries, who watch the same quality TV version of anime, fansubbed with subtitles, and we love anime are in the wrongs? Are these actions and logic not the same wrong doings ?

  • IMHO, Crunchy Roll is like Valve’s Steam of anime distribution. Everybody claimed to hate it at the beginning, yet nobody can say it isn’t the future.

    Online streaming distribution like that of Crunchy Roll is what’s gonna save the Anime industry like iTune did for musics. Whither you hate it or not. I just hope more Anime studios will realize this soon.

    Either start their own streams (paid, or free with ads). Or have somebody like Crunchy Roll do it for them.

  • I can understand being angry at those who sub animes that English-speakers can buy in English. But honestly? It is the industry’s fault for not bringing the other, more lucrative and less-known titles overseas. I gott’a get my Kodomo no Jikan fix somehow!

  • What 2ch seems to be forgetting (or refusing to accept) is that the anime they have available on TV will probably never leave Japan, seeing as only a small percentage of what they have available eventually makes it to the US, and only a small percentage of what’s available in the US reaches Europe. If we lack the means to get it legally, then we do the second best thing, which still doesn’t hurt you at all since we DON’T have the means to buy them in the first place. Nothing won, nothing lost.

    On the other hand… Let’s say that we, “pirates”, took interest in a certain series, and comments on it spread online. US companies WILL pick up on this, and bring the series out of Japan. Now you’re starting to win something…

    Japan gets the money for selling it, the US gets the series and broadcasts it, and those who wish to support the official releases will buy the DVDs (like on Japan). Those who don’t, will simply record what’s on TV (like on Japan), or download from the internet if it’s NOT on TV. I’m still paying anyway, since I don’t have internet for free at home. Unfortunately. I pay my bills.

    …Oh, and bring me the evidence on how people in Japan don’t record what’s on TV or download anime from the internet… Please, I’ll be waiting.

  • “They refuse to learn Japanese – just look at all the Japanese who learn English to watch their films. What spoilt brats.”

    Bullshit. Everything you watch is subtitled.

    Lets be honest here. Not many anime is worth buying to begin with. In 20+ years I’ve bought 4 series and 7 movies. That’s it. Its not like being a movie buff. There are definitely more movies worth buying than anime.

    Its rare to actually find a show that has constant quality from start to finish in anime. Hell, even Avatar The Last Airbender has better constant quality than most anime.

    Fansubbers are significant to the anime market of their region. Whether you believe it or not. You think people are going to blindly walk into a store and buy 1 DVD with 2 episodes for $70. The only explanation is that you’re retarded.

  • When I was young, you know what I read at the beginning of every anime subbed show I watched? And in-between?

    This is a fan-subbed production. If you paid anything for this, you were ripped off!


    Please stop distributing this anime when it was licensed.

  • “If Japan treated Disney cartoons and Hollywood movies like they treated our anime, the US government would go ballistic!”

    I’m sure America wouldn’t even notice. Far too much piracy of american media stuff in america as it is. I highly doubt they would notice the piracy in japan. Really, fansubs are just like catching the anime when it airs on tv only more convenient. The majority of these quick fansub groups this article talks about use footage recorded from a tv. Having the channels and recording the shows is basically the same thing only this involves uploading said shows to the interwebs. It is piracy but it’s not like they’re stealing dvd or bd’s of it. All it really harms is japanese cable or whatever it is since we aren’t paying for their cable service or watching their commercials when we watch fansubs. If one really loves the series and can afford it then one’ll probably purchase it. But purchasing a series blind when one has never watched it or only seen a few episodes is unthinkable. Without fansubs I wouldn’t have discovered anime at all. I wouldn’t have spent any money on it either. I rarely buy dvds, though I have a few, because I support the industry elsewhere: Manga, lightnovels, random series goods and figures. Anyways, it’s very easy to blame piracy and the like as the root of all evil but it’s not always the case. Not saying all piracy is good or that all fansubs are good. It’s just complicated is all. Silly 2ch

  • Well we can’t really watch anime on T.V. here in America, while the people in Japan get to enjoy their daily anime. So in my views, fansubs is like getting a dose of our daily anime that the people in Japan get on their tvs. Fuck, if the American anime company actually license all the anime in Japan, and sell them for a cheap $20-30 instead of the expensive ass $60 or part 1, then I’d be willing to buy shit from them.

  • I watch fansubs mainly when there’s no legal alternative. When there’s something like what ANN, crunchyroll or funimation are doing, with free or very cheap streaming, I prefer that. I’m not one to buy DVDs of anything no matter how much I like it with very rare exceptions, but I’m willing to pay for a netflix-esque service to get what the Japanese market gets for free–a chance to view a wide variety of anime without making a huge investment.

    The histrionics 2ch shows towards fansubbing is almost, but not quite, as bad as the scanlating thing. I said it before and I’ll say it again, you can’t lose sales you were never going to make in the first place. Producers of series that were never going to be exported lose nothing from foreigners watching it, since they were never going to sell them anyway. Somehow, though, us damned gaijin are still somehow to blame for the industry’s downward trend. Not the fact that most shows are moeblob crap, or the overt pandering to the base with more and more niche/pseudo-pornographic shows that marginalize the industry more and more. Nope, it’s just us foreigners for daring to want to watch their shows while they’re still relevant.

  • I think we should see this from both sides. I guess that they think that we should buy the dvds or blu-ray when the price is at “bargain” status as 2ch puts it. however they seem to forget that those prices are expensive in the States. $40 on dvds and $10 on manga is a bit much but it has become the standard on any blu-ray or dvd not just anime. I would be a hypocrite in saying that I never watched fansubs but that does not necessarily mean I didn’t buy the dvd, I gathered a staggering collection of anime overtime and even more so of manga, but with the cost and the recession, it became to much for me at one point, however I believe I supported them by buying their dvds and manga, and the only reason I did was because of fansubs.

    I’m not sure what foreign shows the denizens of 2ch watch, but lets be honest here, I can’t believe that not one of them has never downloaded a fan-subbing of a show they wanted to view but couldn’t because of the language barrier. I do believe that some of them did teach themselves the language of origin of their favorite shows but I think those are merely a few individuals. I can’t say I blame them for saying we ruin the industry (after all it is human nature to cast blame on others) but I will be damned if they make assumptions on fansubs based upon what others who don’t know the situation in foreign countries make them out to be.

    I guess you could say the same for us but really, what difference does it make when both sides will only continue blaming each other for the sudden drop in the anime market.

    let he who hasn’t watch fan translated foreign shows cast the first stone.

  • How does 2ch and Japan feel about stuff like Netflix, I wonder? Since you’re not buying the dvds at all. Like I personally have the streaming service and have been streaming animes like Soul Eater and original Fullmetal Alchemist recently. Would 2ch hate me for doing that?

  • Maybe if the companies streamed subbed versions of their series online (within an hour of the TV airing) with commercial breaks and banner ads galore for the American market, we wouldn’t have this issue.

    I’m sure if you had a bunch of American companies buying timeslots during these Hulu-esq shows they would hunt down and murder filthy fansubbers.

    Americans are spoiled brats indeed!

  • It’s sad seeing the logic fail on 2ch. They all talk as if they never download anything for free and if they think Hollywood and Disney flicks aren’t pirated the world over, they obviously have no real clue what si happening in the world. I guess this is what happens when you live under a rock and do not understand downloading things for free is a worldwide thing. They do it as much as anyone.

  • 2channers, especially made out of very narrow-minded young generations, did not think of the possibilities if anime was freely distributed. Firstly, if anime was sold in the form of paid media, it would not be very popular and in the form of CD/DVD would take a few years before foreigners can watch it. If anime was free, it can be readily available in other countries which would in turn popularize the industry, promoting the production of new and better shows through the income earned by merchandising that would definitely clock up more than selling anime CD/DVD in the previous situation.

  • if you think that is hard find anime in the USA ,you don’t know how hard is find in latinoamerica,the fansub is the only way to watch anime
    stupid japanese,like you only turn on the tv an see anime,you don’t know how hard is find anime or manga

  • Oh, please. What we have here is sour grapes because (1) the Japanese KNOW they’re getting ripped off by their own industry – $70 for 2 episodes is just extortion, and (2) refusing to acknowledge that if their industry limited what they were able to access as severely as their Western counterparts there would be rioting in the streets of Akiba.

    I’d also like to say that EVERY series I have watched and enjoyed on fansub I have purchased when/if it became domestically available. Now, I know not everyone does this, but still… Times is tough.

  • If Japan wants anime to be paid for, why they still aired it on national TV for free? Then they blame US for illegally distributing them, that is just stupid. 2channers are just a bunch of patriotic bastards that only keeps stuff to themselves and not share it with others even though it is meant to be shared. Remember Japan, without the aid of the USA, you would not have become a world power, and without your businessmen who struggled with learning English, you would not have prospered.

  • Both sides have very good arguments…

    It is still piracy, no matter what spin you put on it; but its also true that it gives great exposure in countries with limited access to Japanese products (yes, the U.S.A is not the only country with fansub groups).

    I know for a fact if I hadn’t been introduced to fansubbed Anime, I wouldn’t have become a fan, and as a result, purchased the DVD’s and other Anime goods I currently own.

    The fact of the matter is, as long as the Anime Industry is so exclusive to Japan, there will be piracy; And as a result, uncertainty as to the source of foreign revenue in regards to distribution and exposure.

    They could just completely stamp out fansub groups and see what happens…

  • Wait a minute, where do they think the fansubbers get their RAWs? All the anime is still being recorded and shared from Japan, by Japanese, and I thank them for that!

    If I could buy the manga and anime I am currently watching, I would, but I simply can’t! Nobody sells it officially…

    LOL at “Hairy foreigners” – Please look in the mirror… Now take off your clothes and look in the mirror naked :D…

  • I guess they don’t realize we have no choice in what we watch on TV when it comes to anime. Do they know that at all or are they too busy illegally downloading their own games\music\movies\manga? Would someone go to 2ch and remind them that anime fans here do not have anime to watch on TV? We have Bleach, Naruto and a bunch of the pokemon type bullshit. Are there others? I really don’t know of any but there probably is.

    I pay for TV, most of us do, but we don’t get anime to watch. Hell, we don’t usually get a chance to buy it on DVD either. I go to stores and see just lines of Bleach and Naruto. So what the fuck are we supposed to do? Turn to the only source that produces it? Indeed.

    But then this is Japan we’re talking about so what do you expect? They should be more worried about the Youth Bill passed in Tokyo and it’s possible effect than fansubbers.

    • But if it’s fansubbed and is all around the internet, the show in question is even less likely to officially reach foreign countries because most potential customers have already watched it online, therefore there would be little profit from the sales.

      Besides, you can always go and order japanese DVDs on Amazon. This would make you own physical copies of the show and you would have the right to legally watch episodes online with subs. That’s how I see it.

  • You know what I praised The Lord in January 2009 when I heard about Crunchyroll, a site where you could pay to watch SUBBED anime at the same time it aired in Japan.

    To my despair, I found that 4 of 5 shows were blocked due to regional limitations. So I’m still looking for a site where I can watch my anime, the day when that happens I will gladly support the industry.

  • Haters gonna Hate. Honestly, the fansubbers are telling the truth, they are supporting anime, and they are advertising it. If there weren’t sub teams, the majority of people wouldn’t be watching anime. And what happens when people watch anime? Most become a fan, and what happens when you become a fan? Well, some may be like me, and actually go out and BUY anime related items that are related to the animes I have watched FROM sub teams. Figures, Art Books, Games, many things. And you know how over priced those items are. So profits are already being made somehow in someway.

  • Why do I get the feeling that people in japan think they care if average americans pirate american things or not? because they don’t.

    That being said a lot of people buy fansubs even after the dvd is released, and that’s never really mentioned at all is it? Hmmm, Well this will probably be published on 2chan, or some of these will be eventually anyway I just hope that they realize that nobody cares or would blame them for downloading and fansubbing english movies in japanese or not..

    And who in their right minds pays 70 dollars for two episodes anyway?!

  • HAHAHA Im reading these comments and I can’t stop laughing… The amount of ego in these comments are staggering, and they know nothing of the American anime market. They dont even know what happens or even touched US soil. The only reason that the US market is anywhere as caught up in Anime is because of fansubbers. Without them, we would just forget about anime because we dont understand japanese. And the argument about why dont you learn japanese is retarded as well.

    Seriously. I put this right up there with the manga ban. These people are way to isolated and their ego to big to say anything that makes sense. Just stupid.

    Ill support subbers. You can’t put much faith in the US anime and distribution industry. They take to long and by the time the anime is out in the US, we would of forgotten about those titles already. However, I do buy my dvds from the states because its uncensored, but I find nothing wrong about subbing anime in english if thats really all, although piracy is another issue. All I can say is, piracy is done on both sides…. the fansubbers and 2ch. 2ch has no right to complain in that matter. Who doesn’t download when anime cost 70$?

    And I hate dubs… The english voices are just obnoxious. All I want from the US is my anime uncensored and subbed in English.

  • Yes, there is no way to get around the fact that funsubbing is piracy. But, outside of 3 animes, american publishers have ruined any anime they get their hands on. Now I’m not a person that want dubs, all the English voice actors make me want to stick sharp objects in my ears, with the exception of Cowboy Bebop which was awesome in both languages. Now let’s compare a quality fansubber, like dattebayo, and official subs on the DVDs. I buy the DVDs for every fansub I have, but, I end up only watching the fansubs. I can’t stand the official translations they just seem bland like a robot wrote it. With a quality fansubber it just seems like all the dialog lines have character, soul, they seem more like it was something that was being said by a person. The american anime industry has failed, they don’t care about the anime they are putting out they only care about the year end fiscal report. So, when we get it it has been raped and truncated and is nothing like it is in Japan.

  • My opinion on this has drifted over the years.

    The purpose of fansubs was to create demand for licensed productions of anime. This is why the tradition was to stop distribution after licensing. But in these days of ad-supported online simulcasts of just about everything current, I do believe fansubs are obsolete. It doesn’t help that modern ‘fansubbing’ looks more like cribbing someone else’s script, muxing it in and calling it yours.

    Don’t like the ads? There’s almost always a nice paid option, usually with some extras (like HD feeds) for ridiculously cheap. Want HD, free, ad-free and legal? Forget it; there’s gotta be a revenue stream for the producer or there’s no business case, and you’re a fool if you believe that these companies are making shows purely for the sake of the art.

  • tbh, i wouldnt have gotten into anime if it wasnt free.

    & while fansubbing, i dont recall a time i felt i was doing it for the benefit of the community. all i felt was the excitement of knowing the # of ppl who download the releases. & then being praised for it.

    same for scanlations.

  • i think if it weren’t for fansubbers and translators anime and manga industry wouldn’t be popular enough outside of japan.

    i think someone already said there’s no difference in watching anime from fansubbers than watching it broadcast in japan, they’re just there to promote their products. so just buy the dvd and blu ray versions and be done with it.

    the problem with the american market is the constant bullshit delays and few selected titles, i mean where’s my Hellsing Ultimate VI and so on? they only promote those who are already mainstream(bleach, naurto) but they still lag a hundred episodes. not to mention the constant censoring and tampering with manga character name’s and titles. so it’s really hard to buy it with %100 uncensored.

    lol at 2ch you mad? it’s like you don’t pirate yourselves?

  • So basically, this is what 2ch wants us “foreigners” to do:

    1. Learn Japanese
    2. Pay 100 bucks (or more if you count extra import charges) for each 2 episodes.
    3. Be willing to let anime companies violate us in all directions.

    What are we talking about, 2ch demands are very fair.

  • Jeez, they need to get a grip. It’s not like we’re “stealing” Anime off their TV Broadcasting. Mostly people buy DVDs and translate the language with the Computer Program and BOOM! You get Fansubs.

    People really need to get a grip, fansubs or not. We have permissions to upload things online; whenever it’s official or not, and they did a same thing too. They just need to get over it.

  • What the Japanese fans don’t understand is not every show is “worth” buying.

    Sometimes I like to watch a show on tv, but end up not picking it up on on home video because I don’t mind just catching it on television.

    Problem with anime is that we never get that option here in the states. Stuff I really like will never get shown on US stations (like Monster or Kaiji) and without fansubs, there’d never be exposure either to “better” anime.

    Now, I know watching tv isn’t really “free”. Advertisers are paid, ect.

    well fuck it, put some commercials on a website that I have to watch before seeing the rest of the show, and we’ll call it even.

    We just want to “watch” anime. The Japanese are being arrogant when they basically expect us to buy before we try. Even if it’s some shitty moe~ show with no substance.

  • The truth is American anime market uses fansubbers to determine what anime to import over..

    Since the anime market is so vast.. so instead of going to japan to research.. they just gauge what is popular in the fansubbing comunity then import those that are popular and force them to cease distribute. Which the cycle repeats itself.

    Some even goes that they even take the translation from fansubber themself..just simply hire someone to improve the english.. and hence u get ur R1 anime.

    This is how anime in overseas exsist…

  • You know hell froze over when somebody blames the international market for the decline of a local industry.

    Let’s just keep doing what we’re doing right now until their economy becomes more friendly to the rest of the world.

    No one outside 2Ch seems to be blaming “them foreign thieves!”. Maybe that’s because the publishers themselves know these guys are no better and are just riding the hate wagon.

  • Fan subs are the only way I get anime. there are no stores that carry anime where I live and the only way to get it is to download it or order it online.

    every anime I have purchased I originally watched as a fansub.

    every anime I have watched as a fansub, and liked it enough to see more than 3 episodes, I have eventually purchased.

    I will not spend $100 for a season of a show I may not enjoy. if anime prices were in line with other tv shows maybe they would see more sales in the US.

    and in the end, if it’s not licensed in the US, downloading it is not illegal here.

  • I think that it is the people who demand English dubbed anime that are ruining anime in the U.S. Adding a whole English track is much more time consuming than simply adding subtitles, it delays the release of the anime!

    Funimation sorta has the right idea. When new episodes of One Piece come out, they sub the episodes and put it on their website for free with ads. But it would be best if they already had DVD’s with these newer episodes out already (simultaneously with the Japanese release)

  • Both are at fault.

    On one side, the fansubbers that end up complaining, while they do it for the love of anime, forgot that some of these fansubbers usually get employed by anime companies to help distribute them legally. Despite legality issues, those same complaining fansubbers can put that on their resume for translation-based careers; just don’t be stupid to put the word “illegal” on that resume of theirs.

    On the other side, most of the 2ch comments, while harsh on criticism, sound very hypocritical.

    This sounds like problems with the music industry with mp3s, the movie industry with DVD copying, etc. all over again. This time, it’s anime that needs to figure out the challenge on anime distribution and promotion. While it is impossible to eliminate piracy, it doesn’t mean that the industry itself can’t get tougher on security.

  • If I didn’t watch fansubs, I’d be constricted to a tiny minority of anime. I’m watching a show from the ’70’s right now. When the American anime industry going to release that on DVD?

    Fuck ’em all.

  • Lets face it — Japanese anime is like American cartoons — they are 24 minute informercials selling a that title’s brand. The real money comes from the merchandising of the product: figurines, PC and hard copy games, manga, clothing, trinkets, music and character CDs, jewelry, etc.

    75% of the “otaku” stuff that I buy I would never have purchased had I not gotten turned on to its anime first. These companies should be bowing at the feet of the fansubbers, and thankful that the fansubbers are not charging the companies for the subbing services that they provide, and grateful for the expanded market that their “informercials” now reach.

    If anime companies are truly bitching about fansubbers, then they need new heads of marketing who know how to rise the funsub wave.

  • Erm guys…. i think we’re kinda off target here…. the real hypocrite here is the goddamn Ishhara!!! Why are the spearheads pointing at ourselves???? Aren’t we all have the one common “public enemy”???

  • “Many have said that fansubs are behind much of the sudden collapse of the American anime market. Naturally many copyright holders want a crackdown.”

    This is by far the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
    Fansubs were around a long time before legit copies of subbed/dubbed anime here in the states.
    Yet they are responsible for the “sudden collapse”
    If the fansub predates prosub and they have grown together side by side the whole time how is it responsible for a “sudden collapse”

    How about an economy collapse is responsible for the anime collapse.
    You know, the first thing to go when money gets tight is luxury……..hence the first thing going to be dropped is anime over food.

    Besides most people should realize anime is nothing but a 30 minute commercial for series related goods.
    Change your friggin business models, make anime free and snag the lost sales in merchandise.
    I’ve been watching One Piece fansubbed for years, Just bought the blu ray movie
    from funimation and if they did a good job I’ll be picking up boxed sets.
    I buy EVERY One Piece figure that comes out in the POP series, and a few others.
    My figure purchases for this year are $3,600+ thats almost 4k in sales from a series I would have never seen if I hadn’t watched the fansubs at a con years ago.

    Fansubs lead to loss of sales and gains of sales.
    Has anyone ever tried to figure out how much in gains? No, because its not “convenient” to the data they are trying to create.

    How many times have you seen some one in the dealers room at a con buy up tons of wallets, keychains, shitajiki, wall scrolls, plushies art books etc for series not yet released in the US.
    Think its random? No, they saw a fansub (maybe a scanslation) and bought all that crap.

    So maybe the studio didn’t get the dvd sale, but they got all the $$ from the licensing of the goods that were related.

    Fansubs do have some merit like it or not.

    Want to crucify some one how about Chinese bootlegs?
    They bootleg dvds, figures, soundtracks, basically if it can be bootlegged its for sale from China with cheap shipping.

  • I argued with a girl in a chat about how she watches stuff on crunchy roll with a free account the adds may pay for the shit but in the end she might as well be pirating since she doesn’t personally pay a dime

  • Hmm…

    Shouldnt we worry about that big douchebag of Ishithara instead of flaming/blaming each other .
    Hope we all unite to save *anime* from the BIGGER/GREATEST evil. After all, we all in the end love the same thing right?

    We can do that right? For the things that are important to us… Right…?

    Meh we are screwed (T^T)

    Oh and hi Japan! Hope you doing fine too!

    • In a way, you’re correct. I mean, what’s worse, couple of fansubbers doing what they do with anime that some companies from the anime industry have some problems with, or a law that could drastically change everything in the anime industry that could severely changes things with the anime itself or completely make it gone.

      And for the record, I do buy the anime/manga and support the people who make them. I’m not stupid to NOT pay these mangakas cause I know they need the money as do we all. That’s all.

    • lolo “unite”
      Stop daydreaming..those slant-eyed dwarfs would rather commit sepukku than try to understand “outside world” and think past their xenophobia.

      The way it works…sh*t will get ruined, anime banned, manga burned like heresy tomes during inquisition times. And those bastards would most likely still rant on their backyard forum, blaming whole world for that.

  • There is a VERY simple reason WHY fansubbers / Fansubs are sooooo popular:

    1) Easy access to material DAY OF AIRING if not DAY AFTER.

    2) DUBBING SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU…UUUUUUUU….UUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!! I mean, have ANY Japanese even SEEN what the American Anime Industry DOES to most anime? Take Naruto or Bleach as an example: The original voice actors in Japan played the parts VERY WELL, yet what we have for dubs are stuck up nasially nose GIRLS that do BOY PARTS I mean COME ON!! thats just FAIL! If they actually had Anime fans, or anyone who actually CARED about anime look for the voice actors, it would be much much better!

    3) DVD’s and Blue Rays are ridiculously expensive, like 5 times more expensive than they are there. I too buy DVD’s for the anime which are good, but if they are screwed up by dubbing it’s worthless.

    • What the fuck are you talking about? Anime is WAAAAAY more expensive in Japan. You pay more per disc, AND you get fewer episodes per disc. And how exactly does dubbing ruin the show? 99.9% of anime released on DVD has the Japanese audio as well, so changing the language is literally as easy as pressing a button.

      • It may be, but the quality that the fansubbers provide is excellent compared to the shoddy work that certain mainstream providers sell. And you can’t tell me that anime isn’t expensive here- it was so bad back in the day of Slayers and so on… For an entire anime season, it still is fairly bad.

        That being said, you can’t complain about women doing little boy voices- they do that in Japan, too.

        • But it’s not the days of Slayers anymore. What the fuck kind of argument is that? Companies realized they couldn’t sell it for so much, and prices went down.

          And speaking of Slayers, you can get a box set of the first three seasons for less than $40 USD. That’s less than a dollar per episode. How exactly is that unreasonable?

  • Dear 2ch,

    We, the Anime Fans of America, are tired of our anime being overly censored, even when we buy it on DVD. We want the quality that you get.



    P.S.: Look who’s talking, faggots.

  • I won’t support piracy..but I don’t quite understand how subbing something that:
    A. Was aired at public channel on TV
    B. Will never get translated in DVD form for foreign markets.

    Should be considered as utmost act of piracy and crime, and get scorned this badly.
    Of course, it’s easy to beat down this reasoning, explaining everything about copyrights, sales ects..logic works for both sides after all.

    I’m not a scrounge when it comes to spending on my hobby..conveniently, I like to watch anime, or read manga. However, it doesn’t seem I can spend money on that…why?
    There is non here to buy. And that’s a sad fact…no matter how much you’ll say I’m making up still won’t work, as I can’t draw the desired goods out of thin air if they aren’t on the market.
    The best the stores could do here was providing us with incomplete Slayers DVD..brand new! So what..if that was first season of Slayers released ever..some speed they got, right?
    Whatever I wish it or not, I have to relay on the pirates/fansubbers.

    Still not happy? Saying that I should order from Japan, and learn Japanese language to have any use of stuff imported directly from them is on a verge of “minimal effort solution” from the side of proposing person.

    So I come up with clean deal. Make it so that market in my country will provide satisfying access to goods in question. And I’ll pay for them fair and square.
    Can’t get simpler than that.

  • 2ch bitching about something, pardon me if I find it difficult to be surprised.

    The ones comparing pirating movies to anime are particularly dumb, considering anime is on the television, and cable is pretty much a staple for all modern countries. And unless every single person who watches the show on the TV purchases the DVD, it’s a slippery slope at best.