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MangaGamer Silences Koihime Musou

koihime-musou-by-hiratsuka-tomoya

MangaGamer have revealed that they will be stripping their upcoming release of top yuri eroge Koihime Musou of all voicing, in spite of earlier assurances to the contrary – however, they generously offer a 5 euro discount and promise they will add the voices back if enough people happen to buy the game, the release of which they have also delayed by 6 months.

In an astonishing display of commercial incompetence, it appears they did not obtain the rights to the voices at project start, and this coupled with a display of the intractability Japanese eroge companies are notorious for has led to them being forced to strip the game of its extensive character voicing:

Our localization of Koihime Musou has been largely funded by Nexton, the company to which BaseSon themselves belong.

As such, a majority of the money earned by this game will be going directly back to them, the creators themselves. However, this means that they are also shouldering the majority of the costs associated with the release, a key one being voices.

With its large array of around 25 different fully voiced characters, many of which are top-tier voice actors in the Japanese visual novel and anime industries including Norio Wakamoto, Takehito Koyasu, Midorikawa Hikaru, Motoyama Mina, Aoyama Yukari, Hokuto Minami, Maki Izumi, Kazane, and far more (almost all, if not every voice actor for the game went on to play their respect role in the anime, though under a different name) – the costs involved in licensing the voices is great indeed.

Being a partner of our company, Nexton looked at our current sales and made the decision that the cost of the voices was unfortunately too much for them given the prospects. As such, our release of Koihime will initially be sold without the voices, and likewise, the demo unvoiced as well.

MangaGamer is silent as to just why the voice rights were not secured at the start of the project – such an oversight seems only explicable through sheer incompetence or duplicity.

Meanwhile, Nexton apparently believes they will secure more in licensing revenue by ruining the release of the title and receiving nothing than by taking whatever they can get now and hoping a market for their many sequels emerges in future – observers could almost be forgiven for thinking they want the project to fail.

MangaGamer does assure potential buyers that the (“over-18”) loli/shota elements present in the original will be present as in the original, and of course that the game will be free of mosaics for the first time.

In an effort to rescue the release, they do however magnanimously offer a 5 euro price drop, and the promise of restoring the voices – if the game sells well enough:

We realize what a shame this is, and as a show of apology we will be lowering the price of the game from our originally intended 44.95Euro to around 39.95Euro.

However, all is not lost either. We at MangaGamer discussed this issue with Nexton at great length, and Nexton agreed with us that they would like to be able to release the game with voices as well if it’s at all possible.

As such, we negotiated terms with Nexton and reached an agreement: if over 2,000 copies are sold, a patch will be released and the voices WILL be added back in.

It means that if, say, every one of our forum users gets two or three friends to buy the game as well, then despite the original release being unvoiced, the voices will be added back in for everybody, but it all depends on YOU.

We’ve done what we can, now the ball is in your court.

MangaGamer refuse to either disclose sales details of any of their titles or comment on the likelihood of one of their games reaching 2,000 copies sold – with the game now being sold in incomplete form at nearly full price the chances of them reaching even this low threshold are presumably much reduced.

Fans are predictably less than delighted at this treatment:

“This is truly dreadful news.

How much of a chance does Koihime fair in selling over 2000 copies? I don’t want to talk bad about your parent company but they don’t understand how this market works. You have to GIVE in order to create a market. It doesn’t pop up out of thin air.”

“So are you giving the chance to the ppl that don’t buy your games (aka piracy) take the chance to download the game on the net and wait for someone make an unofficial voice patch for free?”

“Without voice acting they don’t have a market at all.”

“Well done Nexton, I hope you enjoy your 100 copy sales.

This is one of the worst ideas I have ever had the displeasure of hearing about. Even if it succeeds, the other MG companies will likely pull this shit as well, making everything worse.

Maybe I’ll buy it once someone makes an unofficial voice patch (which will likely happen within 24 hours of the release).

Also, if the voices are so expensive, why was the price only lowered by 5 euros? I don’t think I’d be getting my money’s worth there.”

“The market isn’t there for 2000 copies whichever way you slice it and you can bet the people who were on the fence about buying it will now just pirate it.

A sad day indeed.”

“Voices are a huge part of the experience of vns, especially of this game where the voices were one of the best parts of it.

2000 sales will most certainly never be reached. What will happen is most people will hold off on their purchase to see if the game ever hits 2000, or they will pirate the game and get the unofficial voice pack.”

“Holy cow. Answer me this seriously, did MangaGamer ever got to sell 2000 copies of ONE game?”

“You’re asking us to take the risk here when for all we know no Mangagamer title has ever sold that much (and Koihime is unlikely to be the first!).

Given that the whole issue is that they looked at your sales and went ‘woah, wait a second, way too low’ doesn’t give me any reason to be hopeful.

I’m not going to buy something in the distant hope that I’ll *eventually* get the desired product, rather than a crippled product.

And the fact that this was not worked out and put into a contract and is only revealed this close to release is just insane. So for your next visual novel, might we find out that a couple routes got cut a month before launch because you weren’t going to sell enough?”

“Well I know 2 people who were looking forward to this bar me, and one of their lines is ‘I’m not paying for an incomplete game – they can —- off.’

The other one was ‘errr I’ll play wow instead.’

I’d expect that to be the response of over 50% of the people that were contemplating buying it.

I think he sums it up best with:

‘The fact of the matter is there’s no market for it, and what little market there is really doesn’t appreciate things like getting a ****** “lite” version of the game’

To be honest I don’t know if I’ll bother buying it now, it’s slipped below playing FFXIV and Recettear for things to do with my time. I rarely play games twice so I either wait and see if the game gets voiced or I don’t play it. It’s a shame, but hey it’s not my loss.”

“Koihime Musou…
Voices lost, will not be back,
Cause the Nexton hates us filthy gaijins.”

With MangaGamer originally having made their debut with a series of notoriously bad “Engrish” releases, it would appear their relaunch and astonishing decision to employ actual foreigners when attempting to sell to the barbarian markets has still not overcome the disadvantages of being run by a consortium of clueless Japanese eroge companies.

The (silent) demo is available now.

As if all this were not enough, the release has reportedly been delayed to February 2011 – debugging a silent slideshow is apparently harder than it looks.

Leave a Comment

169 Comments

  • Its a miracle that we see companies trying to reach us with translated eroge’s into the western part of the world.

    Ever see a group translating Koihime Musou?

    Just be glad there’s someone out there who does it.

    • That’s why I got a hard copy of Higurashi’s first four episodes for 20 bucks at a convention center.

      I also wonder, if no fees for CDs, CD boxes and distribution are included why the prices are still that high.

      • Because not enough people buy the games. If you don’t get enough sales, you need to have a high price per sale so the small amount of sales will still result in enough revenue. This is also the reason why eroge debut for around 9000 yen in Japan.

  • ITS fucking sunday I have go to fucking work in 4 fucking hours because every fucker in my fucking apartment is fucking ill NOW CAN YOU SEE WHY I’M SO FUCKING ANGRY!!!!!!!!!

    JAP LIKE BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • MangaGamer is a visual novel localization company backed by several Japanese developers (Circus, Nexton and Overdrive, among others). They have translated and released such titles as Kira Kira, Higurashi ni Naku Koro ni, Da Capo, Shuffle and Soul Link, and are currently working on Koihime Musou, Da Capo 2 and DearDrops.

      They are known for bringing over many more good serious eroge than their sole competitor JAST (which uses various brand names, including G-Collections and Peach Princess), releasing more titles than JAST, having higher prices than JAST and only offering digital downloads (unlike JAST, which sells boxed copies).

      • And, unlike JAST, they don’t censor their products. That’s very important, at least for me.
        They have done some changes from the originals in some titles, though, i.e., the music and mini games in Higurashi.

  • They are doing, what others(pirates) can do for free and they are still producing this kind of thing?

    “So are you giving the chance to the ppl that don’t buy your games (aka piracy) take the chance to download the game on the net and wait for someone make an unofficial voice patch for free?”

    No doubt this is what the already limited paying customers will do after this.

    What’s next? Charge us full price for a title they have just got licensed and will only start work after 10,000 are sold?

    • Except pirates can do it for free because they don’t pay anyone the licensing fees, royalties, etc., let alone get paid for their own work.

      In short, pirates can do it for free because they prevent any of the people who worked hard to create it from being paid their due and proper wage.

      Here’s a real question: For all you programmers out there, if you were creating this ‘voice patch’ that everyone is taking for granted, how much would you actually charge or make for that work if you were doing it professionally?

  • You see, retarded opinions like the above are reasons why the Japanese are calling the foreigners thieves and pirates.

    I couldn’t find a scintilla of support towards mangagamer from the comments above, which although have bad Engrish and repeated vocabulary usage, are still trying to promise their fans as much as possible. Whether is it related to their sales or not, know this.

    Support your fuc*ing localization already and stop whining and pirating.

    It’s MORONS like them that we can’t frigging brag about supporting the Japanese circle. Show some fuc*ing support, idiots. Surely your tiny brain can allow for some decent trust.

    And it still doesn’t come to that where you get your voices? I bet someone is going to rip out voice package and serve it up to pirates like you. (FSN, anyone) Yah-hur, silvers of fives, matey.

    Jesus Christ on a crutch. Sigh.

    And this article is truly negative in its tone and hugely biased. I checked the mangagamer forums and there are people who are planning to buy it even without the voices, so Artefact, I’m not sure what you’re trying to here… stamp out all English localization by inciting hate?

    • This doesn’t go for Koihime in particular but for everything out there.

      While I understand that we have to do our part as fans, I refuse to pay for some shitty product, even if it means not supporting my favourite titles. I might be a fan but that doesn’t mean being a retard who is gonna let any company take advantage of their hobby just so they can make a quick buck.

      I’m not gonna buy Ikkitousen after they censored the shit out of it. I’m not gonna buy shitty overpriced DVDs, and I’m not gonna buy manga printed in low quality paper and ink.

      So cut the holier-than-thou shit and give us a break.

      • Haha. What a remarkable joke from the 2 responses, see the point here? It’s your prerogative to not buy the product, but to whine about it and then pirate the game?

        If one has downloaded the game and played it, support the localization, no excuses. Your Ikkitousen 1080P you downloaded freely from the interweb can be burned and then stored safely in your hard drives, you can choose to support the localization and explain to the companies you wish to have so and so in the future. Treat your DVD as the backup.

        If you hate the company that much, then order directly from Japan. And if anyone pirated mangagamer’s games repeatedly, just buy one game as support to the company itself, it’s that simple.

    • Then go and buy that crippled piece of software already and stop pretending like you’re the messiah of morality already.

      Your own opinion may not matter all that much to people who don’t want to buy half-finished, badly localized games, just for the sake of buying localized stuff. Ever thought about that? Companies are not entitled to the money of people just because they acquired the copyright.

      Personally, i’d rather support something of a better quality than what we are presented here.

      But do go on rambling about teh ebil piratez *trademark drivel*. Not all the people can afford to only think in black and white.

    • QFT.

      I also noticed that the LOL PIRATES ARE TEH SCOURGE OF TEH INTERNATZ has gone through every comment in this thread and downmarked anything panning MangaGamer for their decision to release the game without voices.

      The voices make the game. I will buy the game regardless to support MangaGamer, but I don’t want this setting a PRECEDENT for future releases. I know licensing fees made it cost-prohibitive to bring the voices over, but I do hope MangaGamer understands that fans like us like it when we get ALL the content of the game uncut and unmodified from the original.

      It just annoys me that we either get a shit sandwich or nothing at all. That sort of “take or leave it” mentality does little but hurt the an already fledgling industry (though I do agree piracy does far worse) in the west.

      At this point we’re at a “damned if we do, damned if we don’t” point for our VN fix.

  • They’re already infamous for things like changing art and sound files, and removing large chunks of Higurashi, then ramping up the cost of successive chapters until fans pretty much have to cut it short and stop playing – but despite the cost, writing so poorly that you keep having to stop and reread their lines to figure out WTF it would mean in real English.

    So this doesn’t come as a great surprise… Mangagamer is the eroge equivalent of making due by eating dog food…

    • MangaGamer has never changed art. Higurashi was indeed a disaster, with its changed music and sound files, but they did not remove ‘large chunks’ of it. They removed the extra minigames unlocked after the first four chapters and the music screen. Translation for Higurashi was also fine. The price of Higurashi Kai, on the other hand, was terrible, and I didn’t buy the game for that reason.

  • 50 bucks is alot to pay for an incomplete product.

    as someone above said there missing 1/3 of their product so…

    2/3 * 44.95 euro = 29.97 euro = 39.46 CAD

    so a reduction of 15 euros would have been fair.

    Now i’ll just download the image pack, provided the kinkier stuff is still in there.

  • First of all I wanna go on record that I’m gonna buy this game voiced or unvoiced because it’s important to support the domestic eroge market, especially while it is still in its infancy.

    OK, now that THAT’S out of the way can I just say that this is all a total B.S. gambit to extort sales from the gaming public. Let’s face it, most of us worthless SOBs pirate a good portion of the eroge we play. If you’re like me it’s the kinda thing where if I can afford when it comes out or it’s a title I feel very strongly about I buy it but if the stars don’t align it I’m gonna play it anyway. Now, I’m not saying that is even defensible. We’ll all have ourselves to blame if JAST and MangaGamer go out of business and we can sit on our hands and lurk the internet waiting for fansub groups to eke out a couple releases a year. Ultimately we will be forced to play all our games through AGTH and our brains will turn to mush from the terrible machine translation. We’ll start talking like we’re hardwired to ATLAS and they’ll lock us away for the rest of our lives.

    BUT! That doesn’t take away from this being a transparent ploy on MangaGamer’s part. I mean, really? You’re telling me 2000 unit sales is gonna cover all the voice acting royalties? I don’t think so. We’re talking a net gain of less than $100k at a LIBERAL estimate and NO ONE is getting paid off of that. Maybe the developers can take their staff out to eat at McDonald’s after production costs are covered. Dollar menu only, people.

    My point is this, MangaGamer: Don’t lie to us. Don’t put out an inferior product. Start releasing HARD COPIES of your games so we can feel warm and fuzzy with our collectible item and you might start to see a return. Thanks.

    • It’s worse than that. In the comments it’s not actually a promise to restore them anymore.

      “Nexton has vehemently agreed to do everything in their power to ensure that the voices are restored if the game sells enough copies”

      They promise to do everything in their power, which is a far cry from promising to restore them if it sells enough. You can do everything in your power and still fail.

      They can basically say “We did everything we could, but it wasn’t possible in the end.” even if they sell the 2k.

  • “However, all is not lost either..”

    Yea right, keep up with your “Totally UNCENSORED!!” tagline on the promo or boxcover only to eventually piss us off with removal of loli characters and illogical lingerie additions.

    If you’re going to remove the loli or silence my Sousou, i’ll not even dare to pirate let alone buying this “Beta” Koihime Musou of yours.

  • Why not just provide a voice patcher(that can also rip jap voices from the original game) that can apply the voices on the english release? Alternately MangaGamer can unofficially leak it under a hacker/warez group so they won’t be blamed for it(hopefully in 3-5 months post game release as a good measure).

  • Removing the voices changes nothing,in matter of fact is a good thing for the buyers as the price lowered,surelly someone will make a unofficial patch when its comes out, and the buyers can simply patch it.All these people complaining about it never intended to buy the game in the first place and is just adding more lumber to the fire and giving reason to pirate it.

    • You should not think of it this way. It will affect future standards and make it possible for companies to dish out incomplete games because 1. we aren’t the creaters and we depend on them to create what we like and 2. the power.

      Some companies needs to go bankrupt because they think they can get rid of vital aspects of a game and get away with it. It needs to be emphasized that an incomplete game is an incomplete game. IF companies complains about how bad the sales are in their incomplete game, they should look up the word incomplete in a dictionary.

      I may not ever be buying this game and I may just be ripping the CGs from the internet, but its a perception and the principle that needs to be iterated.

      • [i]It will affect future standards and make it possible for companies to dish out incomplete games because 1. we aren’t the creaters and we depend on them to create what we like and 2. the power.[/i]

        I guess you right at this point if mangagamer pulls out something like this again it will ruin completely the company image,just like JAST that takes too damn time to release games and censor everthing.

        • Copyright infringement my ass!

          So long as you only make and distribute a translation patch and not any of the actual game content itself you aren’t in violation of copyright.

          It would be like Ford trying to sue a company that makes steering wheel covers, bumper stickers, or those pine tree air fresheners for its vehicles. Ford may own the patents for the vehicle and its parts, but it has no grounds for claiming control over what people wish to add onto it or replace.

        • Translating Japanese fiction to English is inexpensive, particularly compared to practically any other type of Japanese translation.

          There are professionals falling over themselves for this kind of work, depressing prices quite nicely, to say nothing of worthless amateurs willing to give it a go for a pittance.

          And fan translations still constitute copyright infringement in many jurisdictions.

        • And translation just made itself?
          Came free from thin air in small puff of smoke?

          Translation, especially decent translation, is by lot the most expensive part of such project.

          I mean, fuck, in book market translation can cost more than printing of entire edition.

  • Wait, they’re selling it for EUROS? That’s a way to gouge people who are ignorant of the inflation between money.. why not go all the way and just sell it for british pounds? Not to say that it’s also really stupid business idea, it’s no wonder so many gaming companies go out of business from trying to pull stunts like this.

    Nope, if I’m gonna get this game I think I rather get the original japanese with an english translation patch. I’m not paying 50 Dollars US for this..

  • *sigh*

    Dear foreign licensees, if you can foresee troubles with localization, that could likely cripple a successful release because you are serving a a tiny niche group of people among yet another niche group of people, please refrain from adding insult to injury with such half-assed attempts to arouse understanding, or rather pity.

    By the way, what a shining example of why people end up buying less and less with a market situation such as this.

  • You know, I’m getting fucking tired of publishers, mangakas, and producers rants about how piracy and/or low sales are killing them.
    Of course, the case of this game is pure incompetence. In fact, most people ranting are just lacking in the administrative department.

    If they didn’t have the money to hire a key factor in a game, they shouldn’t have made it in the first place.
    Sell the license to someone else who can.

    How do they expect costumers to buy incomplete crap in the hopes they’ll keep their promises of making it better later?

    The whole process of hiring voice actors, dubbing and then porting it to the game takes a lot of time and money. Will they do it after they have already been paid, also considering how incompetent they were to not include it in the first place? Do they think we are this gullible?

    Piracy and low sales became the escapegoat for incompetence and greedy schemes to keep a high margin of profitability nowadays, and I’m fucking tired of it.

    The whole industry should die so it can ressurect with people who knows how to work in today’s scenario. At least this would spare me all the whinning we’ve been reading lately.

    • “The whole industry should die so it can ressurect with people who knows how to work in today’s scenario”

      Like that is going to work. If the industry dies, no one is going to invest in it. Only an idiot is going to invest in an industry with a track record showing failure. That is just bad business.

    • >Sell the license to someone else who can.
      This is not the anime, manga or game industry. There are currently exactly TWO companies localizing eroge: JAST USA and MangaGamer. JAST USA has no interest in this game as it’s long (too much money to translate), has too much licensing costs (top seiyuu? Screw that, we can just sell random doujin porn game X and get just as many sales!) and doesn’t have the extra sales to compensate it (fun fact – shitty porn games sell better than eroge with actual story or gameplay, like Koihime).

      >keep a high margin of profitability
      I don’t know about MangaGamer’s current situation, but a year ago they were still in the red, and their sales are still pretty terrible. They’re mostly trying to survive right now. All other eroge localizers other than JAST USA in the past have either gone bankrupt or have been swallowed by the behemoth that is JAST USA. JAST USA has survived for 15 years mainly because it’s backed by J-List, and because it only sells shitty porn games that are guaranteed to sell anyways. All actually good officially translated eroge were released by other companies, the ones that went bankrupt.

      >The whole industry should die so it can ressurect with people who knows how to work in today’s scenario.
      The whole industry (which at the time of writing consists of two companies) has only barely started becoming serious now. The entire industry won’t die, as JAST is backed by the highly profitable J-List, but MangaGamer could die any moment, making us return to the JAST monopoly where we only get shitty porn games officially, and we have to rely on fan translation for serious eroge.

      • “(fun fact – shitty porn games sell better than eroge with actual story or gameplay, like Koihime).”

        what are you serious? Koihime Musou = Good. ROFL
        shitty Strategy, shitty story

        “JAST USA has survived for 15 years mainly because it’s backed by J-List, and because it only sells shitty porn games that are guaranteed to sell anyways.”

        FYI. it’s now has License to All Nitro+ games.. do you think their shitty now?
        But the only got Demonbane right now
        http://www.jastusa.com/shop/nitroplus.html

        and How is
        -yume miru Kusuri
        -Princess Waltz
        -Family Project
        Shitty?

        don’t be a shittin Hypocrite, since you fapped to those too.

        • lol I never did Once said that The Big Guns are not Old Guns.
          and I’ve been following the VN indsutry since 2000,

          My reference to it is, LEAF, KEY, ALICE SOFT to BIG Guns is, they still sell a lot and have a lot of Fans.

          and my reference to Circus, Navel, being old guns, is that they’re Old, but not Big enough to compete with the “Big guns”

          and like I said it’s subjective, why do have to force your opinion

        • Years the abovementioned companies started business:
          Leaf – 1995
          Key – 1999
          Nitro+ – 2000
          Circus – 2000
          Minori – 2001
          Navel – 2004
          Overdrive – 2006

          Your non-“Old guns” developers are older than your “Old guns” developers. Stop talking like you know shit when you don’t know anything.

        • Or perhaps it’s the fact that JAST is a cheapskate and not willing to pay the full, proper fees required to license any kind of game other than shitty porn games?

          I’ve talked to Peter too, the impression I got is that he was a penny-pinching business man who likes his cold hard cash.

        • MangaGamer has been in talks with Key, but we’ve never heard anything since, so it probably didn’t go anywhere. Minori is looking for a way to release internationally as we speak. MangaGamer releases games from big guns Overdrive, Circus and Navel.

          JAST doesn’t want any big guns games because they’re expensive to license and not as profitable as mindless porn.

        • Yeah, I know Artefact.

          Those “shitty porn games” is way too many compared to the not “shitty porn games”
          It’s almost like the ratio of “shitty porn games” and not shitty porn games is around 8:1

          (looks at personal VNDB list) yup only 20% from that list is not shitty.

          @anon 03:52: sobasically, after reading that, who do you think is the blame, that JAST only chooses “shitty porn games”?

          and just and FYI, working with the Big Guns (LEAF, KEY, MINORI etc etc) is kinda beyond reach for either Companies. Heck, I even considered the Nitro+ partnering with JAST is a miracle.

        • Strangely, apart from a handful of mixed media hits it seems the majority of visual novel sales are derived from “shitty porn games” even in Japan – where a very small core of buyers support the entire industry through high prices and low-volume sales.

          And from discussions with the boss of J-List/JAST, I got the distinct impression that the major impediment to these releases is generally the actual Japanese companies responsible, and their approach (or rather, lack thereof) to international sales. This seems to be borne out by the hash of things MangaGamer’s backing companies have made.

        • With shitty porn games, I meant things like
          “I’m Yujiro, an average student at an average private school. On the surface, our school is a reputable one, with some of the smartest students in all of Tokyo. I’ve recently learned a secret though: the girls who win the annual Miss Twilight beauty pageant are secretly being trained as sex slaves to be sent out to service VIP members of society. The dream of every girl at our school is to be chosen as Miss Twilight: she’s beautiful, charming, and liked by everyone, but the three lovely contestants for the title this year have no idea what awaits them if they should win. Now that I know the secret of the Slave Pageant, I can’t just leave things well enough alone. After stripping the student coucil president of his authority, I decided to train the lovely girls myself…”

          Games that are nothing but porn. If I want porn, I can get it for free off the internet, I don’t need games for that.

        • They announced Demonbane over a year ago, and it still isn’t anywhere near its release. They got the Nitro+ license in the first place because they got serious competition from MangaGamer. Meanwhile, MangaGamer has released Shuffle, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, Soul Link, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai, Edelweiss Eiden Fantasia and Kira Kira Curtain Call.

          Although I’ll agree that YMK and FP are not shitty (not sure about Princess Waltz, as I haven’t heard much about it and haven’t played it myself yet, but it seems to be good as well), they completely messed up the localization. YMK’s translation is half-improvised, and is completely different from the original text. Family Project was also butchered with bad translations, censorship and lots of stupid errors (“No translation”, anyone?).

          Also of note is the fact that YMK was released while JAST was competing with Hirameki, and PW and FP were released while JAST was competing with MangaGamer; during the periods JAST had no competition, they only released low quality nukige (shitty porn games).

    • Rage on anon bro, rage on…

      I completely agree. With pirating a lot of times if the game or whatever they’re pirating is good enough, they will usually buy. Same goes for watching fansubs for anime, most people will purchase the box set if they really like the series to support the developers. Making incomplete crap like this will only lead to people saying, “This isn’t worth the money to buy it, so I’ll just pirate it.”

      Oh, when will they learn?

  • Well…

    If people are even saying that some “unoficial patch” for the voices might become available, then what is the problem?

    Buy the copy and wait for either the official or unofficial patch.

    The people for Mirror Moon did it for Fate Stay Night so I don’t see why others can do it for KM.

      • You do know that most eroge, including Koihime, are almost entirely story, right? You’ll have lots and lots and lots of text, to the point of the game being completely unenjoyable if you can’t read it.

        • @chen04

          well, that was the Japanese version though.

          so don’t let that be a confirmation yet.

          and FYI, it’s not about lazy programmers, it’s more like Greedy programmers and companies. They fill it with Dummy Data, so they can actually get a 1 or 2 DVDs to sell.

        • 7GB? Holy Crap. I’m going to pay for that big of a mess? Then what happens once you add the voices?! Damn, I found entire anime-episodes that were under 40MB on the intawebz. Srs, how bad a programmer can you be to get text and pictures worth of 7 fucking GB. Better has about two thousand hours material worth all those GB.

        • the voices are actually an important part of a “story centric game”, it helps in setting the mood in general, it really does add to the level of immersion and the level of enjoyment of a title, the voice even helps define a character.
          and yes, Tsukihime was a doujin release, you dont expect a doujin to have any kind of real budget, especially back when it was released.
          personally ive never really been too interested in the Koihime Musou series, but i was actually somewhat interested in possibly buying this game after i heard about the impending release at AX2010… but now i know its going to be a stripped down skeletal version, im not going to touch it, I prefer to get my moneys worth when i spend my disposable income, and MG isnt really good at doing that.

        • And Tsukihime was not a “real” Commercial Visual Novel. It was released as a “Doujin Visual Novel” in winter Comiket 2000

          so, it’s cheap and voiceless.

          Koihime Musou has massive Cgs, massive Voice files and it “weighs” for 7 Gb, of course it’s expensive.

        • 40€? Are you shitting me? Fourty euro for a fucking picture book with not even voices in it? What the heck?! Only a retard would pay that much.

          If it wasn’t for piracy no one would even care for anime & co outside of japan, because it’s too fucking expensive.

          btw, tsukihime (2003) didn’t have or need any voices. Says much about a book that needs them to entertain, doesn’t it?

        • Actually, if you buy the game and patch it, it’s a legal game with modifications that may be legal or illegal depending on where you live.

          But the more important thing is, if you buy the game, you keep MangaGamer alive, and if you pirate the game, MangaGamer doesn’t receive any money from you and could be shut down if not enough other people have bought their games. And when the community thinks 2000 sales of a 40-euros game (80.000 euros in revenue, from which all costs involved in the licensing, translation and distribution must be paid) is an unreachable target, I’d say the latter result is not entirely impossible.

        • You have a point here, alas I hope someone will take the translations from MangaGamer and compile them into an unofficial patch (lulz) for the original game. Should not be too hard.

          If I buy the game from MangaGamer and patch the unlicensed voices in the result is a pirated game. If I download the original and patch the translation in it’s a pirated game as well, but free.

          If I have to resort to piracy to enjoy the complete game I might as well go all the way.

      • And now I have another reason on why I dislike MangaGamer even more now. I mean some of the games you get tend to have one program that isn’t even needed at all to run it. not only that, but they don’t even do QC for it to be translated into English at times. Although, that last one imporved slightly.

        In any case this pretty much shows that they just don’t know what they are really doing at all.

      • So you would rather have no release then? Seriously manga gamer does care for their fans, or else they would consider any of the licenese requests on their forum, or add games they have already released on pc to the ipod touch/ iphone whenever someone ports them in japanese… Also they did fight to keep the voices in, and koihime has 25 characters so it’s a very long and massive game… it took nearly 3 years for mirror moon to complete fate stay night, and koihime is much longer than that… and a five euro discount is rather generous considering if they do get that many sells you’ll still get the voice patch… Also you can’t really blame nexton since they will have to play the voice actors for having it released, and at least they considered adding the voices after a certain amount of copies are released… really it’s all dependent on you… if you like vn’s and want to keep them going then buy the game… if you don’t want to don;t buy it and let it die… although it will be sad if you as customers don’t keep it alive eventually no one will, and thus less games released into english…

      • This article is being overly negative.

        >in spite of earlier assurances to the contrary
        MangaGamer never assured us the voices would be kept.

        >the release of which they have also delayed by 6 months
        Koihime never had a concrete release date; their vague estimate was just moved a bit. It happens all the time. If you dislike it, the only other alternative is to completely keep quiet about release dates until they have a fixed release date. I prefer having vague release dates, even if they’re unreliable.

        >it appears they did not obtain the rights to the voices at project start
        The project was mostly funded by Nexton. If Nexton says cut the voices, they just have to either cut the voices or tell them to fuck off and cancel the release. They don’t have a choice in the matter.

        >at nearly full price
        Eroge like this usually debut at around 9000 yen in Japan. Their current price is half of that.

        MangaGamer has never delayed a title after announcing the release date (not to be confused with giving a vague estimate), all of their releases are uncensored (the Family Project scandal was JAST, the Soul Link issue was resolved when MangaGamer decided not to censor it after all), and this is the first time they’ve deleted voices (which makes sense considering how low their revenue is and what seiyuu are in the game – they just can’t afford something like that without selling more).

        • Why would any company want to work with their direct company in the first place?

          Furthermore, how do you know it wasn’t JAST trying to offer them a shitty deal that would’ve driven them under? Maybe JAST is the one who tried to be far too cheap in their negotiations and said ‘hell no’ when MangaGamer smartly decided to reject their doom-bringing offer?

          I’ve spoken with people in MangaGamer as well, and I’m pretty sure the ‘friendly offer’ JAST made them wasn’t very friendly at all, because they had been considering working with JAST before the offer was made.

        • Ive talked personally with the people in charge of MangaGamer, they dont seem to understand the predicament they are in thanks to their business decisions, JAST USA is a much better choice when it comes to buying and localizing VNs, they understand their customers, we want low price games with everything included, uncensored, or else we dont want to pay. with JAST charging $35 USD a game for new releases that have PHYSICAL COPIES compared to MangaGamer’s 40Euro (~$50USD) price tags for Koihime Musou DIGITAL COPIES, you wonder how MangaGamer is still alive (they used to charge 50+Euro per game).
          Seriously, in a market where people regularly pirate the material, you would think they would want to try to attract customers with good deals instead of driving them away by offering a shoddy product for an unattractive price.
          and about JAST and censoring, the people in charge of JAST are actually Americans(who live in Japan much of their time), so they understand the sensitivity that some people have with underage sexual depictions, given the zealous nature of “activist groups” and how the whole “Rapelay Incident” got CNN airtime, they decided not to take a chance with Family Project (even though they state the girl is 18), if you look at all their other games, they are fully uncensored. though i can understand why they did that, it still frustrates me that they bent over to the pressure put on the industry by the mob of painfully ignorant “moralist” douchebags.
          I actually buy JAST USA titles, since i find them to be good deals (recently purchased a copy of Yume miru kusuri for a special convention discount price of $5 off), plus i can show that i am supporting the industry with my shelf of games, manga and anime.
          oh… and a bit of a note on MG and JAST, apparently, JAST has offered to work with MG on friendly terms, apparently MG doesnt like to be friendly with other companies, even if they both benefit from partnering.

        • Screw it. I’ll buy. At a certain point, trust has to be involved, and we’re such a spoiled, pointless little culture of whiny little fucks now, I’m sick of it. A small company struggling to bring over the stuff we love in official capacity as those of us who aren’t spoiled little brats have always wanted, or claim to have wanted, and they hit a hurdle.

          If we truly care about the spread of this aspect of the culture, then we get to do what we did back in the anime days and support that which we loved, even if it wasn’t the best, in order to build it over here into what it is today.

          They didn’t strip it entirely with no chance of reprieve, and if anyone is stupid enough to complain that a company only cares about sales, then they’re even dumber than I thought.

          Purchase the game people. Support it while making them fully recognize that this will not be tolerated again. A voice patch will be released one way or another, we all know this. Legal or illegal, we still can purchase the game and make them realize the demand exists while also getting the voices in some capacity.

          Have some faith in the fact that nobody in the world is really out to get us. Everyone wants to be happy, and doing things like this is not because people are assholes, it’s because people are afraid of taking risks, and they have every right to be in this economy.

          We have to stop being so spoiled and realize that we have always been the reason that something spread or doesn’t spread. Big O was the last anime that the west ever had any say in, because that was the time before piracy ran rampant. Sales are abysmal because we don’t widely support anything, and everyone who says otherwise is in fact lying to themselves. Fansubbing and scanslation has done its job the likes of which none of us ever felt it could… the problem is, now it’s also killing the exact thing it was designed to birth.

          Help them out folks… let’s do it again and get this shit over here. I want to see Visual Novels on the god damn shelves of GameStop in the future.