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Final Fantasy XIV Ultimate in Copy-Paste Map Design

ff14-copy-paste

Final Fantasy XIV beta testers are becoming increasingly concerned about the extreme “copy-paste” nature of the environments in Final Fantasy XIV, as the above diagram illustrates. Little wonder the developers don’t want players playing too long.

Perhaps the only thing more amazing than Square Enix’s apparent inability to create proper environments in its recent games is the fortitude of the player responsible for creating the diagram above.

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138 Comments

  • oh well way to go sqaure. maybe you shouldn’t have let wada became president and sakaguchi quit.

    though only few games that are actually worth while like Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, Parasite Eve, Tactics Ogre, The World Ends with You, and Lord of Vermillion/Arcana.

    maybe if you make a new Valkyrie Profile that would be awesome. heck i don’t even know why they didn’t used the fortress game as the MMO. it looks awesome 😀

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhjKhWP99YQ

    still im giving the crystall novallis project a chance to shine Versus XIII FTW 😀

  • Wait, how is this surprising people? MMORPGs have been doing this forever. WoW has one or two variation of the same cave, Aion has copy paste landscapes.

    Name one MMORPG that has completely unique landscapes. You won’t be able to because there is none, at least for ones that are large scaled. Why is this a big deal now? Just because it’s FFXIV?

  • I’d like to point out that those same coordinates while looking at the open beta in game map, is an entirely different map.

    In fact, there is nowhere on this entire map that I can see that looks like the above picture. Nowhere.

    • Because people who hate this game and/or SE are pretty much doctoring whatever they can to make it look bad.

      Like in the last post here about FFXIV where they posted some doctored pics, and then quickly took them down, that tried to take the same town and replicate the map over and over while claiming each one to be a different identical town.

  • Square-Enix needs to learn a thing or two about world building from the good folks over at Bestheda. Those guys (and possibly a few girls) know a thing or two about making huge gorgeous worlds that are worth exploring.

  • Damn my IQ is lowering while reading these comments, do you guys even know anything about creating games? Almost, every fucking game uses same stuff all over the place. You notice it when you TRY to find those occurrences. That tells something about the hate for this game.

    This game is pretty good for a MMORPG actually, it has nice battle system and crafting mechanics. Atleast it tries to be different than Lineage 2 clones. And does not suck on it.

  • You people will hate every last thing made won’t you? Must really SUCK having no reason to live huh. As for me I’ve played the beta, yeah I noticed it my self without a emo-hater site telling me yet another game isn’t glowing with the power of god him self and won’t blow you away with it’s pure epic awesome-ness. I really REALLY don’t want to make anyone kill them selfs with this but there will never be a a perfect game, so stop bitching over everything and play the tainted games, you know….enjoy life for onces and stop hating. Well anyway as for the beta yes it can be spoted but in some ares more then others. the forest zone (as the map above is) is a great place to find those as it’s just alot of open-top tunnles throu trees. But the other two starting zones are big and open and spoting copy paste takes 1. I longing to find brokening parts of this game to bash it and use that as a reason to not play. or 2. 5 years of play, at what point you won’t really care.

    As a side not why is everyone so jumpy about endgame? it’s not even out and already everyons only wanting to get to the 3 hour monster fights for 2 items to drop and be lotted by someone else. -_-

    I know I’ll get rated down and have some elitist think he can put me right, you won’t, but I am really tired of all this video game hating lately, it’s no wounder they all “suck” you people can’t be pleased. Even if SE had done no copy paste at all you’d just target the menu, or combat, or chat system, or something but you’d find it and hate it like it killed your bestfriend.

  • Soooooooo, they first put a 8 hour limit on the game, then they make redundant maps to make sure players get bored easily and stay within the 8 hour time limit….GENIUS!!!!…or it would just piss off the players and have noone play this game after a few weeks.

  • So much undeserved hate. I play the open beta, and I’m enjoying it a hell of a lot. The battle system is more immersive than any most other MMORPGs I’ve played, due to the fact that you can’t just rely on tick based repetition. The crafting system is very good as well, and even the ‘Botanist’ class is pretty fun.

    As for map design, to each their own I guess, but I’ve yet to notice any issues whilst in the game. OK it looks pretty copy and paste from the map, but when you’re actually playing in the environment it’s yet to be an issue for me. I can’t speak for others on that though.

    I’m surprised this kind of thing is coming up when there are actually some big issues that are more deserving. First of all, the UI is absolutely abysmal as it is designed for a console gamepad. Secondly, there are huge technical glitches. The client is hideously unreliable, on my main computer it wont even run, game crashes are frequent, input lag is horrendous, and so on.

    I kind of resent the witch hunt against XIV that this site in particular seems to be employing, especially when it’s picking on parts of the game that don’t deserve it. If you must hate on what is otherwise a very fun game, even taking into consideration the limited beta content, hate on the features that are actually a problem.

    Oh, and the Fatigue system is not one of them. Head over to Eozeapedia and there’s a thread detailing how long it takes to run into fatigue and the effect of it. For 99% of gamers it is a non-issue. The limitation of 8 guildleves per 48 hours on the other hand, is a real issue, so feel free to rage about that one.

    • Yeah totally, lets just keep the guy that almost killed Square with his little movie adventure, and not change it for someone that could actually make a game.

      Not really defending Wada since he pretty much ended up killing the spirit of Square, but keeping Sakaguchi was not the solution either.

      In short Square was doomed since they made that bloody movie.

    • The servers go live on Sept 22 for Collector’s Edition. Which means the game must be shipping pretty soon, which means it’s probably gone gold or will in a few days.

      Do you think they can totally redo the maps in 11 days?

      • I don’t think they even have 11 days. Going by how FFXI (and pretty much EVERY MMORPG) work, the area maps will almost assuredly be stored on the player’s HDD. Installed from the game disc. Which, with release in 11 days, have to have already been made by this point.

        So yeah, this problem is almost certainly final…

  • Are you fucking kidding me? Copy-paste is the standard solution in level design. Do you guys actually play computer games? Have you ever used a software to create own games or levels? Why is copy-paste suddenly a bad thing?

    • Due to advances in technology, and quality of environment this series has put out in the past, would it be too much to expect them to put some more effort than what we see here? Don’t forget that S-E’s gonna charge the damn game according to that very ‘Final Fantasy’ label and the quality it supposedly represent.

      And yes and no, copy-past is a way in level design, but not THE solution. The key here is to make it not noticeable since nature tend to copy-paste too. In this game though, you can take pictures of several places and compare them only to find that they look EXACTLY THE SAME. Have you missed the last article on this?

  • It’s not a big deal. Even in WoW, every cave was made after the same pattern (actually, there were 3 patterns), so only the textures were different, and it’s still an enjoyable game. The mob’s camps (like the kentaurs’, Venture Co’s, murlocs’) always looked the same too.

  • I’ve spend quite awhile in beta and really not noticed anything like that yet. Maps ive been on are relatively big so anything copy pasted tends to blend in.

    That said, other MMO’s tend to re-ruse landscape design as well depending on how they set up their landscape designing in the first place. For instance anyone who played WoW will know all of the ingame caves are copy pasted off each other.

    That said im surprised with all the hate for a game based of a few news items on sankaku. Alot of people seem to think Square was going for WoW v2 while its really just remaking FFXI. And FFXI was an aquired taste for sure. Theyre targeting the same player base with FFXIV.

  • They probably thought no one would notice…

    What they didn’t think is that they’ve been fucking with fans plenty of times already that people are becoming more cautious than ever.

    Some may call this reaction as ‘nitpicking’, but we’re talking land masses that people are gonna waste 8 hours of their lives every week for(whole lot more if they switch jobs).

    The last time I call ‘nitpicking’ was when Sega didn’t port Bayonetta to PS3 in X360’s quality, and Sony still bothered to step in to fix it. Who’s gonna fix this shit now?

    Or will they just use barely plausible, almost egotistical reasons like “too hard”, again?

    • im going to say this. but zone revamps.
      everquest has them every now and than. remaking an old zone with new levels of “quality”

      but they only do that if the need to add something for the new expansion, of if they want to cut out a zone for lose use (oasis of marr and souther ro mixed into one comes to mind as a non expansion change)

    • WoW recycles the ‘cave design’ a few times, other than that everything seems to be fairly unique.
      They at least applied a different texture to it though, going by the screenshots of a previous comparison on FF XIV square enix considers this to be too much effort.

      • can yo elaborate on what you mean?

        i wont assume until i know what you are talking about because you could mean tons of things by that, and most are perfectly ok, and ill explain why, but before i run my mouth i need to know.

        • In WoW, the cave shapes repeat themselves, but themed differently. For example one cave is forresty while the other is icey.
          It’s the same general area but they at least tried to make it look different.

    • Nice try, but if there is anything that WoW can’t be blamed for, it is map design and scenery – both of which are well crafted and you do not even need to play the game itself since a quick look at the game maps reveals it.

      I’ve seen Pokemon maps more varied and complex than this FF14 sham.

    • are you really that fucking stupid? i dont play wow but i can tell you hell no its not the same. its not the same as copy pasting the same land mass over and over and over and over and over again.

      go to any subdivision in america, all the houses look similar, but go inside them and you can tell where you are by the interior alone.

      same with mmo. and again, i’m using 11 year old everquest as the 3d mmo standard.

        • If they’re lazy with the map design what makes you think they won’t be lazy with the most important aspect of the game: content. It sends the message that they aren’t spending enough time, or aren’t giving it enough budget. Again, this is likely to be reflected in other parts of the game. You tend to cut corners more than once if you do it at all.

        • THIS IS AN MMO
          THIS IS A GAME YOU SINK LARGE QUANTITIES OF TIME INTO.

          i myself has sunk over 6-9 months, of PLAY TIME into mmo games, the environment is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

          lets say that the game takes 3 hours a level, as in every 3 hours you play the game on average you gain a level. and hunting grounds last 5 levels, and i don’t know, is the max level in ff14 50 or is it higher? ill assume 50

          now if i have to stay somewhere for 15 hours, over the coarse of 2 weeks to level, and it all looks the same every time i go to a new ground, if get so fucking sick of the game i would never make it to end game.

          im assuming that every teir of hunting ground is different, but god damnit, if they all have this level of copy paste, i wouldn’t fucking care.

          i said it before, there are 3 forest zones in the original everquest, greater faydark, lesser faydark, and kithacore forest. each one has its on distinct look and feel that you know where you are if you spend minimal time with he game. and this is a 11 year old game at fucking launch.

          —edit—

          i forgot to mention this, but before there was a map system, in grater faydark where i spent the most time killing, i could navigate the zone by tree positions alone.

        • Except almost every MMORPGs has varied locations that makes it worth exploring. If every place looks the same, WHAT IS THE HOOK towards adventuring? The varied environments are THE hook for MMORPG adventuring aside from different monsters and drop-rate of rare items.

    • They can’t fire him until they stop getting COMMERCIAL success, something that can only be done when all game-buyers reach a concensus on how far S-E has fallen. For all the shareholders care(considering their votes decide who sits on the CEO chair), if the company gets profit, which in turn generates lots of dividends for them, the CEO did a good job.

      And who’s to say and PROVE that the shareholders didn’t have a shred of influence in all the shit that many have been complaining on S-E over?

      Hint: Shareholders are the real bosses. Even CEOs are just servants.

    • How hard is to do map design?
      I’ve read about terrain generators 10 years ago that look good and have hardly any repetition what so ever. A huge company like Squeenix could spare one designer for mapping and it would have looked much better, they did it in they older RPGs they can do it for their flagship product.
      The map here looks blocky and bland.

    • ed modeling is hard… ok ill give you that… now lets go and say this… they have at least a team of 400 people on this game, minimum. with a significant portion of them being art and model only. they went to school for modeling, they know how to do there shit, and were trained for the task.

      ill put it this way, i am able to 3d model, im not good and im not going to pretend that i know everything, but i will tell you this. MODELING AND TEXTURING LAND IS THE EASIEST FUCKING PART OF IT. if they cant even do that right…

    • but to turn Final Fantasy in to normal “half-ass-MMORPGs”
      many “good” MMORPGs didn’t went too far in copy-paste like this one

      maybe Square Enix really want to put an end in to this title by turn it in to another free ” normal” free MMORPG game?

      • they reuse elements, textures, thats ok, but copy pasting big land masses? thats the line, i know of no mmo, that does that, and to that extent.

        some mmos have instance areas, which are basically a copy paste, but there is a reason for that

        mmos have always reused trees and other land mass objects like rocks and such, and its ok, we don’t care because they are places with care.

        this looks like they threw some land masses into a random generator and there you go.

        and as for re skinned enemies. i like that, it at the very least tells me they put effort into it. and some games like everquest, some people really like some of the enemies, like draknids (spider people) and in the world of an mmo, isn’t it possible that certain places have stronger enemies even if they are the same?

        and i bring up everquest because this level of copy paste wasnt ACCEPTABLE WITH THE OLDEST (successful) 3D MMO, 11 FUCKING YEARS AND 16 EXPANSIONS AGO

  • Although the actual map certainly looks copy+paste, I’ve noticed areas in the actual game that look similar on the map don’t look similar when you’re there. I’d say a lazy map artist if anything, most of FFXI’s maps aren’t what ones would call aesthetically pleasing, especially compared to games like warhammer and wow.

  • Artefact loves blasting SE and the FF series.
    Being in beta myself, the game is gorgeous and plays unlike any mmo I’ve played.
    This ‘COPY PASTING’ phenomenon is such bullshit.
    I’ve never noticed anything of this nature, and also:

    BETA.

    • it actually makes me sad that this shit is being made.

      back when i was 12 and just started playing an mmo, me and my friends decided to see if we couldn’t on paper make a better world. we got a big 20foot by 40 foot paper roll, was going to be thrown away at seragraph, so my mom got it for us. we spent 2 weeks making the big over world, and the next month designing the complete over world. one of my friends was big into d&d dming, so we gave him the task of making some of the dungeons. we finished the over world, plotted most of the zones, and mapped out 6 cities.

      my friend created what modern raids are like for more than one of his dungeons, and we got to work on making and underground catacombs, remnants of an old civilization built underground in a time land was scorched and hellish, and different planes of existence, where the gods of our world resided.

      we did this from the time i was 12 till i was almost 14, i probably still have the paper somewhere and all we came up with.

      it makes me really sad that i did that when i was 12, and even in the planning i never reused the same areas as blatantly as they do.

        • ^^ But the sales (profit) are in the good games.

          That’s no freemarket at work, that’s lousy map design at work. Freemarket at work will be when the game flops and Square gets their act together to make good games again (or go bankrupt)

        • The conundrum is that good products with attention to detail tend to fare better than run of the mill copy paste ones.

          Looking at this map, do you want to play a game like that? I don’t. I originally didn’t want to pick up FF14 because I knew it would be light on endgame at launch. This really isn’t helping to convince me that I made the wrong choice.

          Even crap like CoD which gets a new game every year and is an obvious cash cow doesn’t have such blatantly lazy design.