Chinese Martial Artists “Pathetically Unskilled”

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A Chinese article condemning the current state of Chinese martial arts as being “extremely low level” in the wake of a major tournament has sparked a great deal of controversy, with many Japanese of course only too happy to agree with the assessment.

The article, published on a popular Chinese site, soon found its way overseas to Japan. It can be read in abridged format below:

The SportAccord Combat Games 2010 recently concluded in Beijing. Chinese competitors took 7 gold medals in fights [overall Chinese results were 10 gold, 6 bronze – the event saw 13 “martial arts” tournaments ranging from kickboxing and judo to sumo].

However, real Chinese martial arts prowess is, far from being best in the world, actually exceedingly poor. The image of invincibility Chinese martial arts have is just a myth cultivated by movies and fiction.

Take a world renowned martial artist such as Bruce Lee. He is widely believed to be a first rate combatant, but in reality he was extremely myopic and hardly competed at all. People think he’s an American national karate champion, but in fact his real level is just a Hong Kong high school amateur boxing champion.

So what’s the real ability of our athletes now? In recent Sino-Japanese competition, and in competition between China and the rest of the world, China has indeed secured many impressive victories. However, these were just the result of bouts arranged with weaker opponents, and where the rules were biased in favour of our own fighters.

The Japanese fighters, supposedly Japan’s strongest, appearing in recent tournaments had fabricated career histories.

The China-Thai kickboxing bouts were even more cynically arranged. China fielded a pro-level police competitor, but he was fighting an amateur Thai policeman. And the rules banned the Thai competitor from using his knees and elbows [Muay Thai makes extensive use of knees and elbows – Thailand won no gold medals in kickboxing].

Fortunately, a host of martial arts experts spring forth from 2ch – who would have suspected?

Because they are gymnastic exercises.

With real rules:

I get the impression kung fu has no chance at all…

What’s the point of a martial art just based on learning the forms?

Basically, Chinese martial arts are just for showing off.

Kung fu is just for show, with no real practical use. Like taekwondo.

Fist of the North Star is a Chinese martial art too!

There are aren’t any serious karateka or aikido practicioners competing. Even so, joke styles like “praying mantis kung fu” are even worse than the ones competing.

Jackie Chan’s flashy stuff is no real use. In movies they never take any real damage anyway.

Kung fu is more showy acrobatics for moral discipline. Jackie is the former.

Muay Thai is the strongest, the rest are shit.

What about Shaolin?

A friend learnt Shaolin – since it has kicks and throws he said it was, if you spent years training, better than either karate alone or judo alone.

So why not learn karate and judo?

Shaolin is the real deal – I am going to keep believing this.

The Shaolin temples were all ruined in the Cultural Revolution.

Thai:

A bout between a Tai Chi Chuan practitioner and a White Crane Fist practicioner from 50 years ago – true Chinese martial arts at their best:

It’s just an ordinary brawl!?

That’s just tacky.

So this is what happens when expert fighters do battle.

Even in Japan the practicioners make up excuses like “the real killing techniques are not things we can just lightly show to outsiders” – I bet the kung fu guys are the same.

Mao feared rebellion and turned Chinese martial arts into circus tricks. With tournaments banned for so long, its decline was inevitable.

If you’re saying martial arts with no real use are rubbish, what about useless Japanese kendo, iaijutsu and so on?

Tai Chi Chuan is just dancing.

Karate is the strongest. You can’t win with a dance like kung fu:

Kung fu is like Japanese ninja – just people who have been imaginatively turned into supermen.

Rather than calling it a martial art, we should be calling kung fu a traditional folk dance of the Chinese.

Drunken fist is a total lie though, no way can you gain strength by drinking.

I asked a Chinese exchange student about that – he was seriously annoyed and said “Are you an idiot? They are just pretending to be drunk, isn’t it obvious?”

Let’s all just keep believing all Chinese are kung fu masters, all Japanese are samurai ninja, all Americans are former marines, and all Russians subsist entirely on three meals a day of vodka.

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354 Comments

  • Anonymous says:

    “Let’s all just keep believing all Chinese are kung fu masters, all Japanese are samurai ninja, all Americans are former marines, and all Russians subsist entirely on three meals a day of vodka.”

    Sums up this article pretty well!

  • The thing with martial arts is: they only teach you the form, but not necessary how to use it.. why? The ones who teach like to keep the goods to themselves so others can’t learn. This way the masters / teachers can milk more money out of people. Unfortunately, this makes it even harder to pass on to later generations, and in the end all you get is this BS that you see on TV.

    One other thing: That Tai Chi Chuan and White Crane Fist match? Neither one want to actually fight, they were more like pushed onto the ring by other people, and with all the politics and gangsters and thugs behind the scenes, neither one wants to deal with the shit after in the event that they do win…. At least, that’s what I heard from my grandfather.

  • kung fu is like style, dancing, and fighting like capoeira so i would assume already that it would lose to the competition of other fighting technique which would contain actual street brawl than showing stances and moves.

  • “Drunken fist is a total lie though, no way can you gain strength by drinking”
    What idiot thinks they actually get drunk

    “Kung fu is like Japanese ninja – just people who have been imaginatively turned into supermen.”
    Ninjitsu is just displayed as such the actual thing uses proper techniques and is a good part focused on concealing various weapons on the body

    “Kung fu is just for show, with no real practical use. Like taekwondo.”
    this persons clearly never seen taekwondo its one of the least flashy martial arts out he proabably mistook it for hapkido which is usually taught along side tae kwon do is actually usefull

    Theses “experts” on 2ch are idiots

  • Real masters dont show off their years of training in front of people to declare fame.There are many styles in chinese Kungfu (now called wushu),each has their own weaknesses,so its up to a practioner to train to perfect his/her arts.Hence the name Kung-Fu means “results of the exercise/training”.

    The deadliest martial arts in the modern times belong Israel—>its called Krav Maga.Its so deadly its devided into 2 types,the one for the public teaching and the one for military and intelligence community.

    • The many styles itself had been kung fu’s own terrible weakness. There shouldn’t be too many styles having their own way/mannerism/movement to throw one simple punch, when a punch that a boxer does 10x better anyway. Too much unnecessary crap that you won’t use in a fight anyway, that’s why kung fu had been getting a bad rep from world class pro fighters.

      Kung fu guys are getting defeated left and right in the early Mixed Martial Arts scene, and the only successful Kung Fu fighter in mixed martial arts, Jason De Lucia, switched over to submission wrestling and found better success using submission wrestling techniques.

      Krav Maga, on the other hand, is indeed a better choice for typical self-defense situations, but the military Krav Maga is WAY better than the commercialized civilian version. Alternatively, military combatives and combat sambo are good for purely self-defense. Keep in mind that even if you know these “deadly techniques”, it’ll always be harder to pull them off against pros who actually fight for a living.

      • The niche of ancient martial arts systems is not motivated by the need to survive, but rather by the need to keep memberships. Sports Martial arts serving the purpose of gambling entertainment and fitness were bound to extract the lethal techniques from fear of court persecution.

        In the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF), a superior Hand to Hand Combat Training System was developed and named Krav Maga. Its advantage was providing training methods with optimal self defense capabilities while maintaining strict safety during training. The key to this system is the correct hierarchy of prioritization!

        However, Krav Maga known to civilians around the world is not the IDF Krav Maga, but rather another form of Martial Arts marketed to civilians.

        Krav Maga – Use of the Human Body as a Weapon offers a complete Philosophy and Application of Hand to Hand Fighting Training System.

        It is the most efficient form of Self Defense and Hand to Hand Combat training method ever developed.

        Over one hundred and fifty techniques are presented with over one thousand film strip formatted photos with over sixty thousand words of advice.

        Boaz Aviram, Krav Maga Top Expert and Former IDF Fighting Fitness Academy Hand to Hand Combat Chief Instructor.
        http://www.amazon.com/Krav-Maga-Philosophy-Application-Fighting/dp/0557248469

  • Ahahaha, that first Kyokushin vs. Chinese_wtf fight was golden.

    LEG GRABS NOT ALLOWED. Sure that chinese whatever isn’t even considered to be martial art (not to mention serious martial art) anywhere outside of Asia, but not letting the guy to grab Karate guy’s legs? that’s like BEATING OUR KARATE CHAMPION NOT ALLOWED RULE.

    No surprise Japanese Karate is so fucking worthless nowadays, when they have to resolve to such tricks to ‘win’ a match.

    Truth to be told, European Koykushin school matched their japanese skills in 70ties and since 80’es till now Japan faggots are too afraid to invite anyone of renown from France, Holland or Ukraine to their tournaments.

    Real full-contact Karate match involves throwing straight punches at mindboggling speeds and lots and lots of lowkicks (the lowkick, lowkick, lowkick meme is actually very true in real life). It isn’t Hollywood level of flashy, but when you consider speed and strength at which they throw their punches and that they take it on basically ‘naked chests’ it’s really impressive.

    High kicks are very, very rarely used, since it’s so easy to block, evade or deflect one.

    And if you’re looking for self defence and general combat, instead of martial ART, you should simply train multiple martial arts, though boxing alone is awesomely useful in street fights.
    For example, boxing (for proper garde, no japanese crap even comes close), Karate for general punches/kicks and Judo for fighting on the ground and throws is extremly effective combination. you can add/remove Mulay Thai or some kickboxing to the mix, as long as you’re training multiple fighting styles that complement themselves you’re fine.

  • That quote is absolute bullshit. Leaving aside that the guy clearly doesn’t know ANYTHING about kung fu, he doesn’t even know anything about the actors he cited: Jackie Chan, for example, was not a kung fu practitioner; drunken style isn’t even a FIGHTING style, it IS just for show. And, god bless him, kung fu is NOT just about forms. Lol.

  • I find it odd how they can call Bruce Lee unskilled, then call out Kung-Fu for being “flashy and impractical”. While it’s true that Bruce Lee didn’t compete much, Chuck Norris admitted that Bruce Lee was above his level, and he was an 8th-degree blackbelt at the time. Not to mention, they’re right, Bruce Lee didn’t compete much; he was getting in REAL street fights, not that MMA crap where you can’t hit here and there or use this and that.

    These people are clearly idiots who can’t tell the difference between competition and a real fight. In a real fight, sticking your head underneath someone’s arm to try to take them down is just ASKING to get killed by an elbow to the spine.(most average-size people can kill someone instantly with a full-force elbow to the spine) But incidentally, elbows aren’t allowed in competition. Neither are groin kicks, eye gouges, hitting pressure points, breaking bones, chokes, hitting the back of the head, etc. They talk about these limitations like they’re very insignificant, but the fact of the matter is that the most efficient forms of kung-fu, aikido, etc. are completely useless with such rules.

    Do you know WHY there aren’t many serious Aikido practitioners in competition? It’s because Aikido is strictly self-defense. These guys don’t screw around; they WILL use choke holds, they WILL break bones, they WILL hit weak points. Aikido is so dangerous that even in practice, they can’t do their best moves, because those can accidentally lead to serious injury or death when misused.

    Don’t even bother wasting your time with competition if you want to talk about serious martial arts. The rules are made so that plain fists and grappling are heavily favored over the most effective strikes and crippling the opponent.

    • Having done Aikido and Karate in the past, I say, Aikido, while strictly self defense, is far more crippling than Karate because of all those damned locks! Just a little force and you could dislocate the shoulders, break a couple of bones, BREAK THE SPINE, etc etc. Hell, we weren’t even allowed to practice those spine breaking locks because the sensei deemed them too dangerous.

      • They also have wrist locks, shoulder locks, spinal locks, leg locks and neck cranks in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Judo, Sambo and Catch Wrestling. Aikido is indeed strictly self-defence, but is still limited in terms of overall grappling and fight/self-defense application, given that they haven’t really trained defending against proper attacks (it’s a lot more common to see them practicing against telegraphed punches and kicks – real punches and kicks will be WAY harder to catch and deflect without actually training them yourself).

        Catch Wrestling guys are always practicing those dangerous techniques a lot, like spinal locks and neck cranks. You can even see the spinal lock being applied loosely in pro-wrestling (it’s called cobra clutch/abdominal stretch). A certain neck crank variation is probably a lot more deadlier, since not only can you dislocate the neck and spine, it’s easier to pull off too (easy in a way that there are more scenarios in which you can pull it off than a spinal lock).

      • My point exactly. I honestly think that if you want to talk about real effectiveness, I would say that boxing, kickboxing, wing-chun, and aikido are undeniably the most effective. Boxing and kickboxing are universally agreed upon for being so efficient, and wing-chun and aikido are too dangerous to use all-out in competition. MMA is useful too, but not the heavily distorted form of it they use on TV. But these guys who know nothing about REAL martial arts. All they know are the rules of competition and going all-out with punches and throws that are too slow to work on people who actually use their knees and elbows.

  • Goddammit! What an absurd article!

    “Kung fu is just for show, with no real practical use. Like taekwondo.”

    And then they “informed” that Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee are poor fighters? … That’s all about sensationalism or even the chinese people are looking too much into the “rule-limited” fighing competitions?

    It remounts the old discussion about TMA vs MMA(former “Vale-Tudo”). Very vague, lots of arguments from both sides. As a martial arts practitioner, my opinion is simple and direct:

    The MMA has an advantage over “normal” TMAs in terms of fighting efficiency(with empty hands at least). BUT if the TMA is SOMEWHAT involved with the military training(like Krav Maga,San Soo or even the original forms of some famous MAs), then this TMA has an advantage over the MMA. Perhaps not in the ring, but everyone knows the difference between a competition and a real fight situation…right? If you don’t, think about it.

    • Believe it or not, most people who don’t have much knowledge of martial arts outside of competition have no clue what they’re talking about in terms of actual self-defense. Kung-fu was established as early as the warring states, so there has to be some practical form of it out there.(again, that goes back to Wing-chun and shaolin kung-fu, primarily.)

      • The practical form may have been diluted over time due to being the ancient equivalent of “McDojos”. Praying mantis style historically wanted to adopt the most effective techniques and try and become the ultimate martial art, but as time goes on, it became divided, instructors each have their own thing going on what they think is effective, then it was all for the money… now became ineffective.

        MMA definitely has the advantage over TMA, seeing as MMA focuses on what’s effective, not as a “form and proper attitude” training that won’t help in fights. TMA held on to its own roots too much it didn’t evolve – if they’ve evolved, they’d look like modern day MMA anyway.

        In a real fight situation, MMA and military self defense would definitely be more effective than TMA. MMA fighters and their techniques could double over and be about just as effective as pure military self defense due to the tough training involved in most MMA training camps (most self defense martial arts are more about learning techniques than they are training to be in good physical condition, and thus, even someone who’s good at self-defense may consequently “gas out” or be overcome physically by a well-trainined pro), which happened one time due to Bas Rutten.

  • I am a kung fu practitioner, and i’ve seen many of the flaws in the training and have tried to rectify them in my own training. One thing i know for sure after so long is that the style really doesn’t matter, as long as you know how to apply it. There are more obviously applicable styles like Hung Gar and Wing Chun that focus on basic technique, and strength and speed respectively. But for the most part, kung fu needs to be applied correctly more than anything else.

    The flowery or acrobatic styles are applicable but only in a limited fashion, and too many people think that the flowery moves are the powerful ones. It’s rally not the case. Real kung fu is not invincible; no style is. What it comes down to is the person fighting and how smart they are with their training. If they know how to apply it, it doesn’t matter what the style is. They’ll win.

  • A lot of Kung Fu is impractical, but Monkey Kung-Fu and Drunken Fist do work, as they’re not really all that fancy, and rely heavily on swift punches. Drunken fist can look fancy, but it can be used without all the dodging tricks too, since it really is fast.

    Wing-chun is definitely practical too, just not for competition, since it revolves around hitting pressure points and outright debilitating the opponent, rather than relying on brute force.

    Shaolin Kung Fu is one of the oldest forms of martial arts, and mostly uses very practical and efficient self-defense techniques, in addition to throws and throw escapes.

    Thins like Tai-chi and whatnot that require fancy stances and spins are definitely more for show, but there are definitely very practical forms of kung-fu that are much more different in style.

  • The first Taekwondo trainers were originally karate trainers who had some basic knowledge of Takkyeon (a traditional martial arts similar to Capoera). Taekwondo is all about “shock at the right time” mostly with your two feet. So, Taekwondo in some cases are more dangerous than Karate. Bruce Lee’s Jeet Kun Do is partly inspired from Taekwondo.

  • Well , the known martials artists like Bruce lee or Jet li , are strong , whatever poeple say , they practiced aloooot since they young time , and mostly lived for it . by these days you’ll never find anyone who has been trained for fighting since he child age

  • [quote]Let’s all just keep believing all Chinese are kung fu masters, all Japanese are samurai ninja, all Americans are former marines, and all Russians subsist entirely on three meals a day of vodka.[/quote]

    This one is the best.

    There is so much BS in martial arts, it’s ridiculous. Half of the people in it are idiotic fanboys who will argue uselessly about “which style is the best” their entire lives.

  • Kung Fu is bull anyway. More of a dance than a real martial art.
    The Chinese themselves arent believing this shit. Instead, the Chinese Army practizes Sanda, a non-spiritual form of Kung-Fu, that concentrates on disarment techniques and deadly attacks on weakpoints.

    If you want to find real Martial Art in China today, you must look for it in the PLA and not in sports events.

  • Of course there are no really “real world” effective fighting techniques left any more. People don’t go out and regularly get into life and death fights these days. And you can’t practice real disabling or killing blows. A veteran foot soldier in the Sengoku Jidai would take out the best Japanese swordfighter today, because he’s survived battles with people who wanted to kill him and had a three foot long razor blade to do it with.
    The problem is you can’t practice maiming and killing people, because you, y’know, go to jail for it.
    That said, I’ve seen a few videos showing street punks getting snotty with people who are trained in ACS or MMA fighters getting taken out pretty fast.

  • I’ll admit my “official” MA training is limited to a few weeks of karate-like training, and any fighting skills I had before that was aquired somewhat like Terry Bogard’s was (getting into fights on the streets as a kid and getting beat on ’till you catch on to how not to get beat on).

    Taking both into account:
    > Fighting is a graceless, ugly business: That smooth flowing of one move into another that you see in the movies and the training hall practice forms doesn’t exist. What I’ve often experienced in fights was 2 or more people simultaneously trying to punch, block, dodge, kick & wrestle each other.
    > Those forms you practice serve at least 2 main purposes: To get you into the habit of properly executing punches, blocks & kicks; To ingrain at least some basic attack/defensive routines into your instinctive reflexes.
    > There’s really only so much you can do strategy-wise: Overwhelm your opponent(s) with an attack/counter attack combining speed, strength & power all at once; Neutralize your opponent(s)’s ability to attack or defend by constraining & restraining the movement of his arms and legs; Employ some combination of the aforementioned strategies. All MAs should have basic moves & techniques for employing those strategies.

    The point of weapons, I’m told, is to attack from a safe distance or attack in a way that can’t be countered easily. The way to have a chance at fighting an armed opponent unarmed is to get real close to negate the distance advantage.

    If martial artists are unskilled, they haven’t been practicing their basics enough or showing bad judgement in how they use them.

    There’s probably more that could be said, but I’ll limit my underinformed 2 cents to this.

  • Coming from a past mma back ground, I gotta say that I feel insulted about this post!

    I feel that no one here understand what martial arts are and are making a mockery out of the sport and using it as a weapon to stereo type a race!

    Being from a MMA environment most of my friends are Japanese, Korean and Chinese, Tai. Etc and all of which are not closed minded such the comments you guys made here!

    These videos show individuals with no skill in the martial arts. I mean come on the guys missed a shed load of openings to tackle the dude’s leg to the floor when raised for high kicks which is one of the weaknesses in karate, judo, aikido and jug jitsu but that does not make the art bad, it just means that the practitioner must wait for opening, while avoiding attacks and capitalise. The guys in this get hit and do nothing, if i was well and was still practicing as soon as the dude hit me i would hold the let drop and twist, dislocating it as that would stop the attack!

    You know some masters don’t even fight like in the moves, They can stare each other down rather than fight. It’s this generation of media that is spoiling people presumptions of the art. True practitioners and masters don’t show off as if they did then allot more people would be killed by the art. Most old school masters i know are even doctors as the art is supposed to show you how to defend and heal.

    NOTE: to all that martial arts was not only for health and longevity but infect protection like the accent monks of old and generally a way of life!

    Do your research if you are even interested, and if not then don’t have an opinion about something you know nothing about. Just become the current media such as movies and tv shows stereotype it.

    The Chinese kung fu guy in this 1st vid has no skill and it would not surprise me if this was a ruse to make the art look bad, for one all are speaking Japanese, where other judges from different countries? Europe for example. You can’t take a stereo type like this and then try and rationalise it!

    I mean come on, these comments bastardising Chinese people have no place here in the world, yes Chinese (the country) has been doing allot recently which can be looked down upon, but these choices that the country is making is because of capitalism part of which is control of information via their government so to control their people, just like religion does in western society (note: faith is good, mans interpretation and changing of faith is bad aka “religion”!) Chinese people are not to blame and should not be ladled as you can’t generalise on a race, how would you like it?

    If so and i thought like some of the people here, then I’d be talking about how the Japanese raped pillaged and plundered Korea, china, and most of Asia in the past and recently say they have struck it from the history books, not quite learning from there past sins huh! Infect looking at past thence, Japan has a lot to answered for. but you know what, fook it as government pushed the people to do these things and the new generation and western Asians should not be put under the same scrutiny because of their ancestors actions in the same way that all Chinese should not be ladled as loud and interrupting, Does anyone here even know any Chinese people? I mean from my experience there curios much like Japanese are and other Asian, as they tend to treat people like they want to be treated, which if I’m not mistake as the whole world does!

  • Mc Donald’s i beating the crap out of everyone they are so fat now that no one is an oponent but besides who are we kidding nowdays almost everybody can kill a master with a gun, unless you have a really bad aim you are bound to win

  • Actually, in martial arts, it is not the matter how superior is the other. it is precision, timing, speed, “clean” and power. Different martial arts have their own pro and cons. It is up to the fighter not the martial art itself.

    And also, chinese kung fu is lack of kumite/sparring.
    But, I can tell, if one truly understand the art of one martial art and perform well, it is considered to be very very powerful already.

    I am a former chinese kungfu and taichi practitioner, and currently my mainstream is aikido and taekwondo.
    I know how all of them works, but to able to use it in real fight, it is different case.

    So, I would say:
    none of the martial art is bullshit. If you (maybe just few years of training) try to fight with a master class of a different martial art, i think the chances of winning is not plausible at all.

  • That Shotokan fight at the end was pure. I’ve seen what fighters are trained to do at higher levels – at first it’s about learning the techniques, then it pushes focus strikes. I’m just kind of surprised nobody posted a Kyokushinkai fight in response, it’s revered in Japan.

    • You would say that with heavy Yakuza involvement, split into 5 organizations (no one of them having actual rights for Kyokushin trademark:P) Kyokushin in Japan would be a bit of hushed up subject.

  • There are way too many staged and arranged “tournaments”. Money buys the winner. Real martial artists, as in those that Live for the sport, would probably be all too happy to challenge some of those statements.

    • Yes, that’s why I love SanCom sooo much.

      It’s like tabloid DONE RIGHT – tabloid-like subjects (30% meta news, 30% galleries, 30% freak/sex), but done with journalistic integrity of The Times.

      I love how ‘serious’ news sources will never touch on self-appointed tabu subject like Japanese-Chinese relations and other genuinely interesting stuff issues in Japan (it’s all roses and geishas down there) and their anime coverage is limited to providing worthless facts about release dates of new show and such (I could substitute half of month of ANN news with quick glance to Fall 2010 anime chart). SC on the other side will not just show you that XXX was released, they will give you blueray vs fansub comparsion to show if it’s worth getting, or what reaction to it was.

  • MMA is the closest thing to a full-out fight that’s legal and publicly available. There are no well ranked pros out there who do kung fu in MMA. Everyone uses kickboxing, jujitsu, boxing, wrestling, and sambo. Kung fu is art, but it’s not a serious MARTIAL art.

    Also, it’s surprising that there are no top ranked Chinese in MMA, even though they’re so numerous. Maybe better nutrition and such is a factor, but there are many top rated fighters and champs from only moderately richer countries, like Brazil. This suggests that the martial art of choice is the problem.

    • lol to this bud, as mma stands for mixed martial arts and coming from that back ground, wing chung was used. You heard of the rolling punches? hello!?!?

      do your reasearch before you talk!

      also kung fu is a martial art and a serius one, i can intro u to some guys that think the same and will be more then happy to show you some!

      all you guys are talking about here is wo shu and yes thats for show!

  • The last comment wins lol.

    Honestly though, the comment about cultural revolution and the government cracking down on its arts is the reason why so many od its people are out of touch with their history and arts.

    • Well, it certainly helps a bit if you are really drinking some alcohol, since you won’t probably feel any pain due to the alcohol while fighting, but you need to be a good drinker otherwise you will become dizzy and can’t hit your opponent.

  • “Take a world renowned martial artist such as Bruce Lee. He is widely believed to be a first rate combatant, but in reality he was extremely myopic and hardly competed at all. People think he’s an American national karate champion, but in fact his real level is just a Hong Kong high school amateur boxing champion.”

    all of this are bullshit!

  • I dont know if it’s practical or not but I do know if they are not put into real practice, it’s not going to work the way you dream it. Try practicing driving a car in a video game, then take it onto the street. I can assure you, you are going for a crash course. If I have to say which is the best “kungfu”, I opt ultimate fighter. Cause one tackle like that, there ain’t no chance in hell, your fancy crane praying mantis monkey fist of fury going to help.

  • Has no-one mentioned that “Karate” actually means “Chinese hand / martial art from China”. Even the Japanese borrow Chinese martial arts to develop their own Karate style. I am not saying Karate is weak or so, but if you say Chinese Kung Fu sucks, then you are saying the source you used to develop Karate sucks.

    As for the Drunken Fist & Praying mantis youtube videos, they are obvious Japanese guys mimicking these styles (the ones in movies not the genuine style); a big mistakes they make are making turns/roundhouse kicks and loosing your opponent’s position, loosing sight of your opponent is a no go; another is constantly retreating and being afraid that your opponent’s gonna hit you. In a real fight you have to be in a better position than your opponent, just like in a war, if you retreat you loose. Real Kung Fu have solid stances (basic stance: horse/bow; Wing Chun: Goat etc.). Without a good stance you will be on the floor in no time. A poor kung fu practioner made often this mistake by having a poor/weak stance. Almost every beginners of kung fu (whether it’s Shoalin, Wing Chun etc.) are forgetting the basics and are just willing to learn the fancy or the socalled killer moves (i.e. skipping the basics and just learn the advance level techniques; obvious they are not ready to fight).

    And for Kung Fu you really need to go to/watch in Hong Kong where Bruce Lee/Jacky Chan comes from (especially if you want to practise Wing Chun or Hung Gar etc.). And in mainland China, many claimed (even in China) that wushu has no spirit and is only for show. Even the Shoalin Temple in mainland China is for tourists only (with their acorbatic shows). So the Japanese actually means Wushu and not Kung Fu.

    And my impression is that a large part of the Japanese people think Kung Fu is Bruce Lee style (Jet Kune Do), while it’s a collective noun for all sorts of styles of Chinese Martial Arts.

    • You’re wrong with implication.

      Japan took your shitty style and improved on it a lot, creating Okonawa Karate. Then Oyama came, took shitty Okinawa Karate and made new,this time awesome style from basis of generally shitty Okinawa KArate.

      Then come few dudes in Europe, who took Oyama Karate,realized that it’s shitty and stared improving.

  • Quote: Karate is the strongst.

    But isn’t Karate a Chinese martial arts, considering that is was originally named “tang fist” (a dynasty in China during the time Karate was developed) and only named to “empty fist” (same pronounciation, different kanji) very later out of political reasons before the breakout of the 2nd world war?

  • “Take a world renowned martial artist such as Bruce Lee. He is widely believed to be a first rate combatant, but in reality he was extremely myopic and hardly competed at all. People think he’s an American national karate champion, but in fact his real level is just a Hong Kong high school amateur boxing champion.”

    This phrase is so full of shit I can feel the page turning brown.

    • Anonymous says:

      That logic flawed in so many level. Even if that really was the last competition he openly participating in, it doesn’t mean he’s only at that level; it’s like saying someone who graduated from high school his knowledge is only up to high school level, because the high school exam was the last open official assessment he’s taken part in (because knowledge cannot be acquired outside the realm of school and exams *sacarsim*).

  • 論理的に反論、意見出来ない人間は汚い言葉を使うものだ。論理的に反論出来ない、けど相手を怒らせたいと思えば、汚い言葉を使うのが最も簡単な手段だからな。頭に血が上ってるから、頭の中で冷静に論理を組み立てられず、せいぜい汚い言葉を使うだけが限界だろうw

  • 現代の”ルールと時間制限ありの良い子の武術、武道”が実戦で弱いのは当たり前。実戦じゃそんなもの無いんだから。WW2以前の武道、例えば剣道は実戦、つまり殺し合いを想定してたんだよ。だから戦前の剣道を習っていたおじいさんの気迫は鬼気迫るものらしいね。

  • People are saying a lot about Krav Maga sucking, so I feel the need to point out that it is pretty universally accepted as one of the most effective(if not the most effective) styles against an armed opponent, which is what it was designed for.

    Muay Thai and Brazilian Jiu-jistsu are more effective against unarmed opponents, and comparable against those with a knife, but they are just not designed to deal with guns, even at close range.

  • To say Bruce Lee had no skill is crazy. theres a reason why he died. not died but “was killed”. and if iam not mistaken didnt sholin monks reach a lvl of training where swords and even spears was unable to damage them thats close to being super in real life as i have ever seen it. i dont think martial artist of today can reach a lvl the older martial artist of centuries past had reached. during the past they actually believed that if they trained hard enough they could focus chi into a real life force such as ken and ryu’s fire ball fictional today of course. but to believe such a thing would have lead to unbelieveable training and skill by past martial artist. the loss of the MA knowledge of past is far to great to fathom

  • ….Peple still Talk about this shits. +_=
    there is no “BEST” Martial Art in this world. it is how People learn which make difference. And Also Timing of your Attacks. Even the So-Called Best Fighter in this world can lose a Weakest person on Earth if he attack at the right time.

  • This “Which style is the strongest” will be forever debatable. Listening to this crap will just make everybody unhappy. And biased journalism sells more magazines that’s why the post articles like that.

  • a guy who learned his own arts in the street experiencing “true” victory and defeat would pwn ANY martial arts nowadays.

    to many of them are conceited in their “forge the mind” shit most of martial school overseas are to afraid to develop potential killer resulting in most of the student unable to lift a finger in front of a real battle hardened street guy.

    now am i surprised about china?

    *watch kung fu movie*

    so yeah,they float,they all looks like they’re suspended by wire,no sir,i don’t think this is reality.

    martial arts = only work with some other martial artist,don’t try this at home kids.

    *if i hurted the pride of some black belt thingy or whatever is the ranking system here i apologies.

    now don’t go all “i’d show you!” on me,this is the Internet,that’d be more than childish.

  • I have taken Goju-Ryu and Shito-Ryu Karate as well as Ryu Kyu Kempo. Most of the Japanese Karate actually derives from China through Okinawa. Since Okinawan Islands are located in between Japan and China they were involved in many Imports. Then as Japanese Samurais started attacking the islands the people of Okinawa developed there own form of martial arts mixed with both japan and china.

    That is why I like Kempo because Kempo is like a blend of the two. It has the blocks and strikes similar in most types of Karate and the ideology of focusing on joints and pressure points from Chinese Kung-fu. But like most Martial Arts, It also has its disadvantages especially going up with a grappler. I hope to take Brazilian Jujitsu to cover that weakness.

  • Hm… might as well “join the fray” so to speak with my own opinion.

    I first want to say that I myself am a Capoeirista, and I have roughly a year and a half concerning experiance with Capoeira. I’ve also been in Wushu classes for a short period of time.

    Second, and most importaintly, is this: some people will say that certain styles are better than others. This, of course, is not true. It does not take into account that it is human beings learning these systems, not machines. Certain people are naturally more talented than others, some work much harder to better themselves than others. The converse, that it’s just fighters who are better than other fighters, is right, but it isn’t as simple as that. I do believe that all Martial Arts will turn you into a good fighter if you work at it hard enough or you’re just naturally talented enough. However, some styles will, I believe, prepare you for a fight faster than others. My own art of Capoeira, for instance, is not going to prepare you for a fight anytime soon. You have to stay at it for many, many years for it to even start to be effective in a street fight (I would say at the very least, 10-12 years). Most traditional martial arts work this way, including most styles of Kung Fu. On the flip side, more modern martial arts, along with MMA, have a huge emphasis on a fast learning curve and training a small number of techniques over and over again. Most kickboxing and ring-fighting styles are like this (Including American Kickboxing, Savate, MMA, Muay Thai, and Sanda, which happens to be Chinese by the way). This goes double for self-defensive and military hand-to-hand systems (like Krav Maga and MCMAP). These styles can train a competent fighter within a couple of months in my opinion, as opposed to the years upon years required for TMAs. However, even though some styles will prepare you for a street fight faster than others, you still can’t calculate the human factor. Some people will just be better than you, regardless of style. This can happen for many reasons. Maybe they have more experiance than you. Maybe they got lucky. Maybe they’re just naturally a better fighter than you. But it is never because they practice a different style than you. If you and another fighter practice 2 different MAs, and the one with the supposedly “better” style wins, it’s not because that style is acually better, it is because the loser hasn’t examined his/her style’s weaknesses or his/her own personal weaknesses, and hasn’t trained to guard or overcome those weaknesses. In layman’s terms, one fighter was just more experianced than the other.

    And as for the “weakness” of Chinese martial arts, I also have a couple of things to say. First, do not judge all CMA’s on Contemporary Wushu. Contemporary Wushu is primarily a Martial Proformance Art, similar in nature to America’s XMA. It is only practice of the Taolu, or the forms. However, it is also paired off with a form of full contact point sparring called Sanda or Sanshou. It is primarily a kickboxing style, but what makes it different from American Kickboxing or Muay Thai is the extensive and heavy emphasis on takedowns. (Also you can only use knees in Pro-Sanda, you can’t is Amature. You also can’t use elbows in either one). I will admit that bouts in China against other styles are hopelessly rigged. But that doesn’t mean there are not truely great Sanda fighters. Just look at Cung Le and Liu Hailong. I have a friend who knows Sanda and SHE can kick my ass any day of the week. And just look at other forms of Kung Fu. Wing Chun apparenty was though of as valid enough for elements of it to make it into many different women’s self defence systems, and even Krav Maga, the official system of the Israeli Military. Some foot sweeps and takedowns that you see in MMA, Jujitsu, and Judo can be found in Tai Ji Quan ,Ba Gua Zhang, Ba Ji Quan (not to mention you can find some of the elbow strikes seen in Muay Thai in Ba Ji Quan). Shuai Jiao is almost exactly the same as the Tachi-Waza portion of Judo. And elements of many self defence systems can be found in Fujian White Crane. Once again, it is the fighter who is the deciding factor, not the style.

    But really, I must ask. Is it really only the fighting capabilities of Martial Art that make up it’s worth? I feel that is a rather shallow way of looking at it. A martial art is more than any punch, kick or takedown. It is a set of values, a philosophy, it’s history, the people who practiced it, along with techniques for fighting. In that way, I say that every martial art is just as valid as another. Taekwondo is just as valid as Muay Thai, Drunken Fist is just as valid as Krav Maga, and Capoeira is just as valid as Sport MMA. I choose Capoeira as my art because it’s values and it’s history, along with the very fine bodily control Capoeiristas have and the beauty of it’s moves appealed the most to me. If I just wanted to learn how to fight or to defend myself and learn it as fast as possible, I would have never, in a million years, taken Capoeira. I would have just taken Krav Maga, or entered an MMA gym and be done with it.

  • Before all the hate comes, know that their government had cracked down most religious activities in the mainland because they opposed the government.

    Many skilled monks and masters were beaten to death and their temples burned. Teachings were lost and what remains today is but a fragment of a greater era.

    China had many different races of people in the past, each with their own culture and beliefs. Modern-day Chinese (the Han Chinese) oppressed these minorities and took their land until they slowly disappeared. Although the modern Chinese government protects these people now since they increase tourism income, many have lost their heritage. I believe there were 60+ minorities in China in the past.

  • Shaolin kung-fu I am sure would be pretty good since it is still “pure”. All the other types are too flashy to be really effective.

    Anyway grappling + dirty tricks is the only thing that will save your ass in a bar fight.

    • Shaolin-Do. Ahahahahahahahahahaha!

      There are plenty of people who learn a few Shaolin forms after doing a few years of karate (most people) or taekwondo (especially Vietnamese) and go off claiming they teach Shaolin. They go off to places like America or Australia and essentially run another McDojo.

      Ah, contrastingly though, there are a few masters around my area that do crazy shit like bending metal poles against their throats and breaking glass with their hands. Funnily enough, one guy has a lot of tattoos and looks like a gangster.

  • snakechimera says:

    its kinda funny how the Japanese forget that half of Karate is based on White Crane Kung Fu and Jujutsu is based off of Shuai Jiao, which is Chinese Grappling. Also, Taekwando was forced onto the Koreans by the Japanese themselves

      • yes i agree! the guys who practice kata all day are the best fighters! they can easily flip people over and disarm knives and guns with their bare hands with no mistakes whatsoever!
        its whoever can do the flashiest techniques and make the best movies who are the strongest fighters!

      • It is very true that Sport Fighting cannot be compared to Street Fights or Self-Defence fighting. But, the truth remains that Sport MMA currently has the most open ruleset of any Combat Sport today, while still being a controlled fight. It’s the closest you can get to a street fight while still having a Referee and a gaurantee that the fight will remain 1 on 1 with no hidden weapons. It is a great forum to test one’s OWN personal combat skills. Sport MMA has produced excellent fighters, like Anderson Silva, Georges St. Pierre, Lyoto Machida, Cung Le, etc..

        And besides, in when it comes to sparing in TMAs, you don’t use the maiming or leathal techniques in sparring! For instance, Wing Chun has kicks to the groin and to the kneecaps, punches to the throat, eye-gouges, etc, etc. So do a lot of other TMAs, including more modern MAs derived from older systems, like Taekwondo. But you would never use these techniques in sparring, because that’s not the point of sparring! Sparring is to better yourself as a Martial Artist and a Fighter, not to kill the person you are up against! So it stands to reason that Sport MMA wouldn’t use these techniques, as combat sport are essentialy sparring in all but name.

        MMA is a great forum to test one’s fighting ability, but unlike what UFC fanboys say, it is not the “be all, end all” of martial arts, nor is totally invalid because it has rules, like TMA fanboys would say. Afterall, one needs to learn a few TMAs before they can be “mixed” together for personal use. TMAs and MMA are just as valid as one another.

  • snakechimera says:

    Interestingly, if you ask masters of traditional kung fu. The flips and stuff seen in the movies and/or competitions are nowadays considered good basics in preparation of traditional martial arts. Unfortunately, the younger generation like most of us don’t have to use Kung Fu anymore in order to claim territories and settle scores among different groups. Basically, we have it easy, people back in the day had to learn kung fu in order to survive. Nowadays, we have wushu, which is basically extremely watered down kung fu. Wushu practitioners usually sacrifice power for form in their techniques and they also do not learn how to apply those techniques in combat, which is why real kung fu takes so long to learn in comparison to other martial arts. I do modern Shaolin (or Commi-Shaolin), Choy Lay Fut and Hung Gar and though the first is relatively watered down too, the monks are pretty much the real deal. They actually know how to apply their techniques and how to put power in their techniques. The monks of the past may be better at fighting since they had harder lives but hey, most of the blame lies on America’s influence on China.

  • styles train and condition your mind and body to be faster and stronger. however you cannot let a certain style dictate the way you fight. you must not limit yourself but let the flow of the fight dictate and influence your reactions. this is why bruce lee developed jeet kune do so he could mix, blend, and borrow from different styles to create something effective that had real world applications.

  • These people are retarded. They are mixing martial arts from the movies with real martial arts. However, its stupid to believe that martial arts from the movies are less damaging than in real life. The martial arts in the movies are based off of real concepts of fighting and are the same thing as the real thing. The only difference is that in the movies, its controlled, but Jacky Chens stuff can and will easily kick ur ass in real life.

    It does not matter what kind of martial arts it is. Done right, its a weapon and it will kill you. People need to stop measuring what is dominent and what is weak because its a waste of time and it brings forth these flamers that obveiously dont know anything about the subject except to flame or brag.

  • “Fortunately, a host of martial arts experts spring forth from 2ch – who would have suspected?”

    Line just made my day.

    What a sore sight- that while channers were just taking a cheap shot on China through this issue, their comments were half-truths as it doesn’t apply to the rest of the world that’s not China.

    *sigh* What chauvinists.

    • Well, I’d guess that the samurai of Commodore Perry’s time had poorer skills than the samurai of Musashi’s time, who in turn probably weren’t as good as their grandfathers who fought for Shingen, Nobunaga and Uesugi…

      If there wasn’t any opportunity to use these skills in a real fight, skills would degrade and those guys who weren’t as good would still live to see another day (or train students)…

  • Cross training. It’s the only way to be sure you covered all areas. Doesn’t matter what you trained in. Doesn’t matter nationality. As long as it’s effective, and can get the job done while being brutal to your opponent.

  • I don’t think the myth of Kung Fu or Chinese martial arts being very effective, much less unbeatable has been alive since the advent of K-1, PRIDE, DREAM, etc. I don’t think I’ve seen any Chinese fighters or Kung-fu practitioners in any actual fights.

  • It’s funny how the video at the end that’s supposedly showing how badass karate is was what looked like a point system tournament (not fighting to KO or submission.) I know that’s how it’s normally done, just funny given the context of the conversation – mma, comparing styles, fakeness, talking about “real fighting” and “real rules”.

    • kid the mma is built around a horribly broken jujitsu technique that in a real fight will get your tailbone crushed in a instant.

      the “brazillian” form (no such thing as brazillian jujitsu)is nothing more than 1 element of jujitsu watered down to use as a ground fighting base rule set for what is todays mma.

      • This “watered down” Brazilian jiujitsu is probably one of the most effective in grappling/close quarters situations, given it being actually honed from tons of no holds barred matches in Brazil (unlike theoretical traditional jujutsu mostly honed within the premises of a dojo, untested in many IRL situations). That’s why pro fighters are getting BJJ training instead of traditional jujutsu training, which are more suited in olden times as a last resort defense against attacker wearing armor and a bladed sidearm anyway

        I’ve already seen some IRL fight vids where a one on one street fight ended via armbar or triangle choke (the guy in the receiving end of those can’t do anything at all. can’t even use dirty moves like eye gouging and groin grabs since they’re not in a better position). THe same BJJ training can help you get out of the ground ASAP if you get knocked or taken down during a fight against one or many people.

  • “Let’s all just keep believing all Chinese are kung fu masters, all Japanese are samurai ninja, all Americans are former marines, and all Russians subsist entirely on three meals a day of vodka.”

    Comment of the year

  • wargalley20011 says:

    Quote from article [Let’s all just keep believing all Chinese are kung fu masters.]

    This reminds me of the movie,” They call me Bruce.” The main character couldn’t fight, but scared a mugger off by making him believe he could. By saying he’s Asian.

    • As hard as it is to believe for you Drunken Kung Fu is a serious fighting style. Most people have no way of fighting against it properly because they are unfamiliar with its rhythm and movement and wind up falling for a simple but effective trick. in one of its forms it swings at you widely falls back onto the floor backwards and at that time if you stepped forward to strike you wind up having your legs caught by theirs and tossed to the ground. If not they will spin themselves into another form. It’s interesting to spar against all sorts of practitioners.

  • There are a lot of different kung fu styles, only some do this drunk and mantis forms. The martial arts just changed from the art of killing to the art of defending yourself, don’t be a jackass saying it’s a dance. I don’t know how effective karate can be, I just know that they go by the one hit/one point rule and then they stop hitting. Other times the amount of training has more to do with it, like the black guy who did muai thai in that video, he looked like he mas made of stone, no punch seemed to affect him.

    • That “black” guy is thai and is a famous muay thai fighter who had a lot of success in both muay thai and K-1.

      The ancient martial arts styles (which is way back in ancient Greece) are a lot like today’s MMA’s boxing and wrestling. Even in ancient warfare, they rarely strike in battlefield situations, as wrestle the enemy weapon away and/or they’d prefer to take the other guy down in order to put them in a better position to take out a knife and stab them. So the “killing” part would be easier if you have a knife with you, because your fists alone would be impractical to get the most efficient kill.

  • I can personally vouch for the ineffectiveness of most Chinese Kung FU styles. About the only one of value is Sanda/San Shou which is really Chinese kickboxing with some throws. Just youtube videos of Sanda/San Shao and you will see little difference in the strikes as compared to boxing/kickboxing. I trained in Wing Chun Kung Fu for year and I regret it ever since. Wing Chun’s entire theory and concept on punching and movement is counter-intuitive to the natural form of the human body. Also many Chunners say,”I don’t need to train groundfighting cause my Wing Chun will knock him out or prevent me from being taken down.” It’s just utterly retarded.

    • San Dou/San Shou was started after trying to effectively combine what’s effective in different kung fu styles.

      Funny how an effective combination of those turned out to look a lot like modern kickboxing.

      But yeah those same “I don’t need to train groundfighting as I’ll just KO him before he takes me down” are the same people who NEVER trained in simple takedown defense, the same people who fall victim from things they haven’t really trained against – BJJ fighters and wrestlers. It’s ridiculous how many style vs style BJJ/Wrestler VS kung fu match vids are out there where the BJJ/Wrestler guys ALWAYS wins.

      BJJ/Wrestlers are used to people trying to punch and kick them, but kung fu guys are not used to guys taking them down and getting pounded or submitted. Some don’t even know when to tap, and may have come close to painful injury if the BJJ/Wrestler guy didn’t hold back.

      Heck in the olden MMA days, Royce Gracie beat everyone in the tourney via BJJ, and all Mark Coleman did to win the championship was use his olympic wrestling skills to take someone down, then simply elbow/headbutt them to oblivion until they give up or get KO’d. They both lost when people finally trained in striking AND grappling.

    • My personal opinion but anyone that takes Wing Chun too literally to the point of calling it a style is gonna regret it. If you honestly can’t think for yourself and have to do your punches and blocks the same way 999 times, get out of Wing Chun. Thus probably why you think something so similar to boxing is awesome.

      Also my personal opinion, the ideas and what the drills teach you is utterly priceless.

  • Drunken fist and Praying Mantis are the Chinese equivalent of Aikido and Kyudo.
    Their legacy is left in Jackie Chan and Steven Seagal
    movies, they’re not practical.

    Get a Wushu practitioner and a Karate practitioner, and you’d have an interesting match.

  • Well I knew we were gonna cross into this realm but I was hoping that we didn’t. Let’s not not flak too much about everyone’s martial style and practice trolls of the internet (and 2ch denizens).

    Let’s just all be happy and say it’s all about the training rather than who’s ass can be handed to the other on a silver platter.

    • There is something missing when you take competition out of martial arts. After years of training and time investment into a martial art, it’s normal to want to test that strength against others.

      Also comparing different styles is very important for the evolution and improvement of a MA. You can find its flaws and work to correct them or work around them.

      • indeed. and thus, MMA was born to compare styles, then developed to combine what’s effective. Now it’s no longer about fighting styles, as it’s all about the fighters now, and how they use these effective techniques proven in numerous matches.

  • I studied Shaolin Kung-fu for 2 years and it is absolutely useful. Personally though I don’t follow any one style or form and take the Bruce Lee approach.

    Although I think everything is worst compared to wrestling. I sparred against a 6ft+ wrestler and all my fancy tricks didn’t do shit when he grabbed me, it was over then 🙁

    • @ slimeappears 11:56:

      Yep, karate isn’t useful when you’re grappling (or “have been grappled”).

      I’d suggest judo and/or jiujitsu are appropriate to grappling situations.

      Disclaimer: the only martial art I know is “bang-foo”; it works, but it has the disadvantages of:

      1) Comes only in full-strength version; and
      2) Much legal hassle is involved if you use it, even if you’re determined to be “in the right” afterwards.

      Hmmm….

      In college, I was attacked by dorm-mates using marshmallows launched with Wrist-Rockets (surgical-tubing slingshot), and it REALLY stung.

      I wonder what the effects would be of being hit by marshmallows launched from a 12-guage shotgun shell…

        • There are more “pressure point” applications in ground fighting than in standup. I used quotation marks because “killer pressure point attacks’ are fiction. There are pressure points that gives out pain or draw out a reaction, but they’re rarely used due to them being situational and the adrenaline greatly decreases the effect of any attack that’s less powerful than a punch.

          And by pressure point applications in groundfighting, there’s putting pressure on the tailbone, bicep, solar plexus, floating ribs, shoulder/chest joint, and inner thigh. Pushing down on the tailbone helps to straighten out a fighter fighting off a back mount; floating ribs, which can also be punched anyway, can be pushed down to make the opponent bend to that side, Ken Shamrock once demonstrated a kimura/reverse keylock submission after pusing his elbow down on the opponent’s shoulder/chest joint, and pushing the elbow down on the inner thigh is one of the basic ways of passing the guard.

        • snakechimera says:

          well, since MMA fighters are usually groundfighting, of course you don’t see that type of stuff -_-. Boxers are more likely to hit larger pressure points than an MMA fighter, like the 1 spot on the chin, neck, etc.

    • Even the best martial arts can’t make size less important, only even the odds a little.

      But on the subject of Bruce Lee, he intentionally didn’t compete because he found tournament rules limiting- those who sparred with him are pretty unanimous about his status as a “first rate combatant”.

      • It can be argued that he’s the father of modern day mixed martial arts, due to Lee adopting what’s effective in many different styles to make his fighting techniques effective, cross training, proper exercise, nutrition, LOTS of cardio, etc. Had he not died early, he might’ve become first-rate in grappling too, given that he trained Judo with Judo legend Gene Lebell a few months before Bruce Lee died.

        In essence, his philosophy blossomed due to MMA. If MMA existed in his time, there’s a very good chance that he’d be Lightweight/Bandamweight MMA champ.

      • Brazilian jujitsu is the most effective professional fighting style. Muay thai is also very effective in a real fight, the best fighters in the world typically have a strong foundation in both. Judo is a good substitute for jujitsu too. Karate and kung fu suck in real fights.

        • A lot of MMA fighters had been successful bouncers/street fighters before going pro in MMA (where they get paid better to do the things they do a lot of anyway). Guys like Bas Rutten , Chuck Liddell, Georges St. Pierre (yes he was a bouncer before too), etc. Not to mention Vale Tudo guys who’s been fighting in matches that pretty much has no rules in Brazil (there’s even one event in Brazil that doesn’t penalize groin attacks – used to full effect by Gary Goodridge, despite the boos he received).

        • What the hell. You can elbow and knee. Obviously biting and small joint manipulation is banned otherwise it’d be a race to see who would take a bite out of their opponent first or see how many fingers you can break first.

          How is jiujitsu autowin? Many accomplished jiujitsu practitioners have been destroyed in MMA, either by strong strikers who have good takedown defense, such as Anderson Silva, or by good wrestlers, such as Kazushi Sakuraba.

        • Don’t use the MMA argument. It’s stupid.

          MMA has all these rules to stop people using what a real person would in close range (elbow, knee, bite, small joint manipulations etc), which means:
          ju-jitsu = MMA autowin.

  • There are forms and techniques that could be useful if applied properly, but for the most part Chinese arts are pretty weak.

    Some Wing Chun capturing works pretty well though. However, even some forms of Karate are useless.. like Koei Kan. Kyokushin is very new, and sorta eclectic category in MA. Shotokan is brutal just like Kyokushin though.

    We have to remember that Kung fu is very old, there are many styles, sub forms and branches in general. Over the years, practice use was lost and romantization corrupted the art form rendering it useless. I’m sure Kung fu was much better 4,000 years ago than its pampered waterdown spawn today.

    • It’s been happening everywhere… 15th Century European swordfighting techniques (with armour and longsword) were kicked to the curb by new-fangled rapier styles, which were then thrown out in favor of duelling smallswords, which were then obsoleted by extremely codified abstract forms of fencing, which in it’s current form, no longer resembles anything from the 1900s, let alone the 18th Century…

        • No army any time in history would arm their men with flimsy rapiers. Rapiers are simply fancy civilian self-defense/duelling weapons and for some nobility, a fashion accessory. Only decent in one-on-one combat, but due to how it hardly has any means of defense in most rapier styles (which was the criticism of weapon experts at the time like John Silver), a rapier cannot instantly incapacitate someone (may take a few more thrusts to bring someone down) and even if one person wins, he may have sustained an life-threatening injury in which he dies that same day anyway.

  • these vids suck especially the first one it pissed me off cause the guy using kung fu had no strong stance it’s like he was a retard or drunk. pathetic! anyways just listen to Mr.Miyagi! “No bad students, only bad teachers”. Anyways all martial arts are equal until u let someone learn it.it all depends on the learner.

      • Actually you can quiet easily own a sword in japan its you cant walk with a sword and sheath reviled in public. Kendo teaches a few throws and attacks as well. (what happens when you lose your sword? You try to take your enemy down and out. You try and get their sword away from them. You think sword fighting is just sword swinging? You kick and you hit when you can. Kendo’s main purpose is to keep a tradition alive from long ago. This tradition was valid for its time when samurai actually lived by the sword. Research a little more before speaking sometimes people. Dont just speak what you think you know. I have lived in Japan for 10 years now and have learned a great deal.

      • I think he meant boken.
        But yea i wouldnt fuck with anyone who knew how to handle a sword. Wooden or otherwise. Would you?

        I imagine that anything of the right shape and make could suffice for a kendo practitioner. But I have to agree that in a street fight where such convenient objects are not always available, its pretty worthless.

  • “Let’s all just keep believing all Chinese are kung fu masters, all Japanese are samurai ninja, all Americans are former marines, and all Russians subsist entirely on three meals a day of vodka.”

    Let’s!

    • Krav Maga assumes that you are strong enough to break grips, push your opponent away, that you’re resistant to squishing and you can’t be thrown off balance and that your opponent is a weak sissy who can be taken down with a simpliest push, has no martial arts experience, has his crotch exposed all the time, that he can’t run faster than you, that he doesn’t have crotch protector and holds his weapon in the most obvious way possible.

      No matter how many scripted situations Krav Maga taught you, if you were to get into a fight with an armed guy who could possibly break all the bones in your body with a single blow, you’d forget all the techniques, panic and get seriously wounded/killed. That’s reality. Even if you remembered the techniques, 90% possibility is that your opponent behaves differently than you were taught and you’ll only anger him further.

    • “Kung-fu” encompasses an enormous number of different styles, but in general they aren’t any good for real fighting.

      Krav Maga’s quality varies a lot. Too often it’s based on dead patterns and compliant training, which is useless. But it isn’t like that everywhere.

      • Actually, if KM would enter tournament it would be totally and worthlessly crushed.

        Even Kyokushin has fuckload of moves that are banned from being used in tournaments (for a good reason, we don’t want every fight ending with crushed throat or gouged eyes ffs).

        KM is essentially all banned techniques and nothing else, not even decent physical preparation.

        If you entered MA tournament with just KM skillset, I guess only option KM teaches you left would be RUN.

        Martial arts are supposed to be sport/art, KM isn’t (it prides itself on it).

    • QFT

      I saw a video of a match that was over really quick. Guy caught a kick to head and had to be hospitalized. A few days later he died from his injury. Tons of people in the comments thought it was funny that someone was accidentally killed.

    • QFT

      I saw a video of a match that was over really quick. Guy caught a kick to head and was taken to hospital. A few days later he died from his injury. Everyone in the comments thought it was fucking hilarious.

    • What those Japanese talking about are not true.
      Their’s Karate is made from basic Kung-Fu.
      Almost all martial art in Asia were rooted from Kung-Fu. And because the time being that made basic Kung-Fu outside China became more adapted to their own culture itself.

      • Kung fu being the root of all martial arts is unconfirmed, as there are no real sources that state this. There are a ton of indigenous martial arts all over the world prior to kung fu, and there’s even a belief that formalized martial arts (which has sources, due to ancient history/literature) may have actually come from Alexander the Great and his army anyway, which were prior to kung fu.

        • Actually the oldest and most superior form of martial arts is Haktop Nokbi, which grew in the fertile crescent and was formalized with rules, associations, and competitions around 3,500 BC.

          Hak-No (as it is often referred to) consists of drying ones feces in the sun, forming them into roughly spherical shapes the size of tennis balls. A jagged, pointy rock is often hidden in these balls.

          A Hak-No match consists of two competitors positioned 16 feet apart, each with a bag of his own dried shit-balls. They proceed to throw these balls at each other as fast as they can, until one goes down and can’t continue, or they both run out of balls.

          Hak-No is the true mother of martial arts, and clear proof that obsessive martial artist fanboys are a bunch of smelly idiots throwing around a bunch of shit.

          The best martial arts is attractive women with big tits and muscular thighs dressed in abbreviated China dresses, beating up on each other. It may not be effective combat, but I know what I like.

    • Martial Arts is for self-defense, no matter what style or country it originated from…

      It doesn’t matter if you don’t know all the moves, or if you are a black belt master…

      The important thing is you know the basics and that in this day and age, all of it is used to defend one’s self…

      I admire a lot of different martial arts styles from Brazil, China, and Japan…They all have their own elegance, form and deathly grace…

      It is a part of their unique culture of ass-kickery and ancient heritage that should never be compared to another’s…

      I practice Jiu-Jitsu myself for about half a year now…It is true what my friends said after the first few months of practice…

      It does give you self-confidence knowing you can kick any assh*le’s derriere if they ever try to hurt you or even pick fights with you…Unless they are more skilled in martial arts than you that is~

      • I wouldn’t use “martial arts” in your case because knowing how to fight comes from defense and offense. The coined term “martial arts” is something we imposed on ourselves to make it sound meaningful and perhaps even noble. UFC, Strikeforce, K1, Boxing, hell even martial arts tournaments are comprised of attacking and/or defending.

      • You are so HORRIBLY WRONG.

        Martial Art is anything but, self defence.

        There are two kind of people that you can run into in proverbial dark alley:
        1. Street fighter type, who beat and was getting beaten by people on the street through his entire life. He has a WHOLE LIFE of experience in hand to hand combat and since he survived (still fighting on the street instead of switching to other criminal career), he is obviously good at fighting. How do you think your 2 months of Jiu-Jitsu will compare to his 10 years? Especially, when he has a knife (and he WILL have a knife, that kind of people always do)?

        2. Ordinary thugs that just mob defenseless people. THEY ALWAYS ATTACK IN GROUPS. I mean it, ALWAYS. Running joke is, they go to toilet in groups of five. If your fighting instructor is any good, he should have already told you, that when you have to fight a group of people, you should engage your legs and run. Even for very experienced martial arts guys (we’re taking 5-10 years of Karate or MT) fighting group of 5 or more people is a lottery. They might be drunk and dumb and you might get lucky, or they might be sober with a clue, you’re in deep, deep shit then. they may have knives then. Maybe they taught you some basic techniques for defending yourself against knife. But 5 knives at once? You’re pretty much guaranteed to get stabbed and have high chances of GETTING KILLED.

        Remember than in real fight, no one will give you hand and help you get up after you fall down; they will just keep kicking you until you stop moving (or more possibly – until they get bored).

        In both cases, it’s better to run. Unless you’re with someone you need to protect (girlfriend, wife or child).

        Now, what MA really gives is following:

        0. Radiating internal confidence (no really!). Person with MA experience behaves bit differently than some scaredy-cat nerd who is literally afraid of his own shadow when on streeet at night and all the thugs can less or more spot that. They’re always looking for easy (hell, easiest!) victims that are guaranteed 100% not to be able to fight back. Simply by having MA skills you’re getting much lower chance of being selected for mugging.

        1. Good physical condition for running. I’m bloody serious here. Regular training gives you working chance to outrun the bastards when 10 guys try to gangbang you. (you can always do “hit biggest guy so hard that rest of them will run, else run yourself”; still – running is essential).

        2. When some random untrained idiot at the bar will try to mess you, you can kick his ass (until his friends join in, that is).

        • Those are all true. If you’re actually willing to fight many dudes at once, running is also key, since it helps you fight one on one against them – like that one (Turkish?) video when this one guy was being attacked by I think a group of five guys. Little did those group of dudes know that they’re fighting a pro boxer (not sure if former champ or not), who moves a little back, socks one guy, then moves back to sock the other guy running to him. Rude awakening for those dudes 😀

    • Uninformed is right.

      Equating Tae Kwon Do to Chinese martial arts? Seriously, how off center can you get?

      “Mao feared rebellion and turned Chinese martial arts into circus tricks. With tournaments banned for so long, its decline was inevitable.”

      This is the one comment that makes the most sense though. The most hardcore of the martial arts scenes in China were either shut down, banned or basically neutered of their serious martial arts nature and just turned into a show more than for fight.

      Also, considering that China is the motherland of almost all known forms of martial arts we know of today, it’s pretty sad actually that the motherland of martial arts itself is in such dire straits.

      Styles and ‘sports martial arts’ (like Karate, TKD, Judo), MMA, Boxing, Wrestling, etc etc… I doesn’t matter. What matters is the fighter’s will to win and their own skill level with their own craft.

      People have to run out and run their mouth about things they do not know or things they want to look down upon. It’s sad.

      How about we do the OPPOSITE and RESPECT the stuff we do not truly know?

      • Old school taekwondo would be a lot like Kyokushin karate if either the Japanese invaders in pre-WW2 forbid indigenous Korean martial arts training (I recalled this somewhere, but I don’t have source, so this is plausible) or how it became into a sport (ie pussified) in order for the sport to be allowed in the olympics.

        Why old school taekwondo over new school? Remember, Masutatsu Oyama is Korean, and has some photos out there practicing a form of (old school) taekwondo with fellow Koreans – hence you see some flexible but strong high kicks in Kyokushin karate, something that was absent in pre-war karate styles.

        • You know, every other martial art in practice today has gone through some sort of prohibition or auto-flagellation though: Iujutsu, Muay Boran, etc.

          And it seems we all like to think that things that were prohibited or lost in time were better by default.

      • Chinese people have lost all their culture, okay? You can thank Great Chairman Mao’s damned Red Guards for that.

        Real Chinese culture is supposed to be refined and introverted, with a HUGE emphasis on collectivism and harmony with society. But tell me, when you hear ‘Chinese’ these days, what do you think of? Noisy asians who are rude to the public, have no shame or sense of public decency (spitting on the ground etc.), and totally don’t follow any rules. They just bicker loudly everywhere. Same with Vietnamese people.

        It’s become so that Westerners believe that being polite, harmonious and introverted is endemic to Korea and Japan.

      • Wait a minute, Chinese martial arts are not tools of combat actually, they were invented for body building and to keep you healthy. However, you can use them in fighting of course, but they won’t be so effitive as they look in the movies.

        Overall, only one kind of martial art is really for fighting, jeet kune do.

        • True in most cases. However, Chinese martial arts were mostly underground during the Cultural Revolution in Mainland China. You still hear stories about secret societies in Beijing or Shanghai since the fall of the Qing Dynasty and they are still active for they care.

      • “The most hardcore of the martial arts scenes in China were either shut down, banned or basically neutered of their serious martial arts nature and just turned into a show more than for fight.”

        It was more than just that – a lot of the masters were beaten to death or driven out of towns too.

        China has totally lost its culture. There’s a lot of things that are sad about that country… >_>

        Seriously, when people hear Chiense these days, they think loud/rude/cheap, despite the fact that “ancient” Chinese culture supposedly put a lot of value on introversion and collectivism. Do you see any of that these days? Seriously, we have Great Chairman Mao and his damned Red Guards to thank.

  • Coming from a past mma back ground, I gotta say that I feel insulted about this post!
    I feel that no one here understand what martial arts are and are making a mockery out of the sport and using it as a weapon to stereo type a race!
    Being from a MMA environment most of my friends are Japanese, Korean and Chinese, Tai. Etc and all of which are not closed minded such the comments you guys made here!
    These videos show individuals with no skill in the martial arts. I mean come on the guys missed a shed load of openings to tackle the dude’s leg to the floor when raised for high kicks which is one of the weaknesses in karate, judo, aikido and jug jitsu but that does not make the art bad, it just means that the practitioner must wait for opening, while avoiding attacks and capitalise. The guys in this get hit and do nothing, if i was well and was still practicing as soon as the dude hit me i would hold the let drop and twist, dislocating it as that would stop the attack! You know some masters don’t even fight like in the moves, They can stare each other down rather than fight. It’s this generation of media that is spoiling people presumptions of the art. True practitioners and masters don’t show off as if they did then allot more people would be killed by the art. Most old school masters i know are even doctors as the art is supposed to show you how to defend and heal.
    NOTE to all that martial arts was not only for health and longevity but infect protection like the accent monks of old and generally a way of life!
    Do your research if you are even interested, and if not then don’t have an opinion about something you know nothing about. Just become the current media such as movies and tv shows stereotype it.
    The Chinese kung fu guy in this 1st vid has no skill and it would not surprise me if this was a ruse to make the art look bad, for one all are speaking Japanese, where other judges from different countries? Europe for example. You can’t take a stereo type like this and then try and rationalise it!
    I mean come on, these comments bastardising Chinese people have no place here in the world, yes Chinese (the country) has been doing allot recently which can be looked down upon, but these choices that the country is making is because of capitalism part of which is control of information via their government so to control their people, just like religion does in western society (note: faith is good, mans interpretation and changing of faith is bad aka “religion”!) Chinese people are not to blame and should not be ladled as you can’t generalise on a race, how would you like it?
    If so and i fort like some of the people here, then I’d be talking about how the Japanese raped pillaged and plundered Korea, china, and most of Asia in the past and recently say they have struck it from the history books, not quite learning from there past sins huh! Infect looking at past thence, Japan has a lot to answered for, but you know what. fook as its government pushed the people to do these things and the new generation and western Asians should not be put under the same scrutiny because of their ancestors actions in the same way that all Chinese should not be ladled as loud and interrupting, Does anyone here even know any Chinese people? I mean from my experience there curios much like Japanese are and other Asian, as they tend to treat people like they want to be treated, which if I’m not mistake as the whole world does!

    • I mean I would really like to read your comment to see what you have to say because you are giving your views with a MMA back ground but… I gave up.

      No matter how awesome your views are, please learn to break up your wonderfulness into edible pieces; please PARAGRAPH.

      • hehe, my bad! hope its not to late for u to read, if no then enjoy!

        Coming from a past mma back ground, I gotta say that I feel insulted about this post!

        I feel that no one here understand what martial arts are and are making a mockery out of the sport and using it as a weapon to stereo type a race!

        Being from a MMA environment most of my friends are Japanese, Korean and Chinese, Tai. Etc and all of which are not closed minded such the comments you guys made here!

        These videos show individuals with no skill in the martial arts. I mean come on the guys missed a shed load of openings to tackle the dude’s leg to the floor when raised for high kicks which is one of the weaknesses in karate, judo, aikido and jug jitsu but that does not make the art bad, it just means that the practitioner must wait for opening, while avoiding attacks and capitalise. The guys in this get hit and do nothing, if i was well and was still practicing as soon as the dude hit me i would hold the let drop and twist, dislocating it as that would stop the attack!

        You know some masters don’t even fight like in the moves, They can stare each other down rather than fight. It’s this generation of media that is spoiling people presumptions of the art. True practitioners and masters don’t show off as if they did then allot more people would be killed by the art. Most old school masters i know are even doctors as the art is supposed to show you how to defend and heal.

        NOTE: to all that martial arts was not only for health and longevity but infect protection like the accent monks of old and generally a way of life!

        Do your research if you are even interested, and if not then don’t have an opinion about something you know nothing about. Just become the current media such as movies and tv shows stereotype it.

        The Chinese kung fu guy in this 1st vid has no skill and it would not surprise me if this was a ruse to make the art look bad, for one all are speaking Japanese, where other judges from different countries? Europe for example. You can’t take a stereo type like this and then try and rationalise it!

        I mean come on, these comments bastardising Chinese people have no place here in the world, yes Chinese (the country) has been doing allot recently which can be looked down upon, but these choices that the country is making is because of capitalism part of which is control of information via their government so to control their people, just like religion does in western society (note: faith is good, mans interpretation and changing of faith is bad aka “religion”!) Chinese people are not to blame and should not be ladled as you can’t generalise on a race, how would you like it?

        If so and i thought like some of the people here, then I’d be talking about how the Japanese raped pillaged and plundered Korea, china, and most of Asia in the past and recently say they have struck it from the history books, not quite learning from there past sins huh! Infect looking at past thence, Japan has a lot to answered for. but you know what, fook it as government pushed the people to do these things and the new generation and western Asians should not be put under the same scrutiny because of their ancestors actions in the same way that all Chinese should not be ladled as loud and interrupting, Does anyone here even know any Chinese people? I mean from my experience there curios much like Japanese are and other Asian, as they tend to treat people like they want to be treated, which if I’m not mistake as the whole world does!

        • Watch the whole video – at one point he does successfully grabs his leg, just to have fight stopped and have it go with SORRY SORRY DON’T DISQUALIFY ME expression.

          Anyway, the Kyokushin guy in the match is bloody worthless too. Watch some European championships kumite and you will realize how that fight would look like if fought against word class Karateka, (very little openings for leg grabs, and hits much much more powerful, I doubt he would be standing after single connected kick to the head).

  • 4000 years of history.. down the drain.
    True martial arts exist, but its a dying tradition.
    Why?

    Nowadays, its too easy to find a martial arts dojo within your neighborhood. I lament that its all too easy to find some random skill to show off with.

    Take for example the following:
    – a taekwondo black belt can be easily gang raped and killed by 4 unskilled thugs.

    – 5 arrogant youngsters claiming to be kungfu practitioners challenged me (because I was looking their way), and lost.

    The reason is simple. (1)They aren’t learning things right, and (2)not enough experience. Fighting with rules and fighting without rules.

    Before the techniques, you must have the right foundation.
    Before the right foundation, you must be right of heart.

  • 現代の”ルールと時間制限ありの良い子の武術、武道”が実戦で弱いのは当たり前。実戦じゃそんなもの無いんだから。WW2以前の武道、例えば剣道は実戦、つまり殺し合いを想定してたんだよ。だから戦前の剣道を習っていたおじいさんの気迫は鬼気迫るものらしいね。

    Moderne “beperkte martial-regel en de goede zoon, gevechtssporten,” is van nature zwak in de strijd. Nou ik weet niet wat te bestrijden. WW2 vorige vechtsporten, kendo te bestrijden bijvoorbeeld, was ik ervan uit dat het doden. Grootvader was de geest van de vooroorlogse kendo lessen biedt het kwam zo dicht 鬼

    Modern “limitado militar pamumuno at ang mabuting anak na lalaki, militar sining,” ay natural mahina sa labanan. Well ako hindi kung ano ang labanan. WW2 nakaraang militar sining, kendo labanan halimbawa, ako ay sa pagpapalagay na pagpatay. Lolo’s espiritu ay ang pre-digmaan kendo lessons ito ay nag-aalok ay dumating upang isara 鬼 気. 気.

    • Gatfu always dominates.

      It just doesn’t have as much of a romantic manly combat flare to it that martial arts do.

      It’s easier to believe in the myth of the dedicated, talented kung-fu or samurai warrior beating his foes time after time and winning against great odds.

      On the flip side you can train in modern combat tactics all your life and it’s still all to easy to be killed by a kid that just picked up his first AK-47.

      It used to be a proud warrior was at the cutting edge fighting with his hands or crude weapons.

      Later it was the man wearing armor using finely crafted weapons of steel that rode at the front.

      Then it was a man with a fire arm, then a pilot of an air craft and his personal skill, now it’s a pilot and who has the best tech dominance at the cutting edge, and soon it will just be machines alone, and in time the most important contribution humans will have to combat will be to maintain the machines well.

      It’s hard to romanticize combat between drones, so people will always be enamored with martial arts no matter how ridiculous or symbolic fighting with your bare hands becomes.

      • It used to cavemen beating each other with sticks.

        Then someone attached a rock on said stick and everyone else died of bleeding.

        Later someone else develops steel and the people that used iron or bronze quickly decided that steel was better at keeping them from dying.

        Then it was a man with a flaming arm of fire. Sorry I meant the development of gunpowder. Then a pilot of a half-assed propeller flying machine whizzing around and trying their damnedest to hit something with a pistol, or dropping some bricks they took in a sack.

        Wait. Didn’t the earliest planes were meant for scouting and not dogfighting? Sorry my PROUD WARRIOR RACE GUY syndrome must’ve been acting up again. Hang on, I’ll get my meds.

        It’s hard to romanticize combat between drones, so people will always be enamored with martial arts no matter how ridiculous they’d look when they get perforated trying to kick a bunch of people on the other side of the road armed with guns.

        History. It was written by someone so you could read it.

      • Infantry will never go away. Robots are useful as shock troops, but the ability to control them isn’t going to reach the necessary levels any time soon. You can’t make a robot do the same things human bodies can.

    • In a real fight you win by going for the eyes, the throat, or the balls. Martial arts is good for conditioning and reflexes, so instead of just dropping a guy with a kick to the balls, you can rupture his spleen at the same time.

      • If you talk about streetfighting, yeah. There are no rules in those fights. Drop your opponent as fast as possible using any dirty trick in the book to prevent him doing the same. You have to be effective since you don’t know if your opponent has a hidden knife, a gun or some friends nearby.

        • You would be horribly surprised when after your mighty kick to the balls you still get beaten into pulp.

          People during street fight can get so beefed up on adrenaline they won’t notice it immediately and sure as hell they won’t do Hollywood style bend down and roll on the floor.

          Also, who would let you get to their eyes?

          Yes, it’s drop them ASAP (especially that in most cases, they will have friends nearby or already hitting you:P), but strong hit to solar plexus/head/throat or good lowkick and not by fancy eyeball-grab.