2ch vs Sankaku Complex: Foreign Otaku “Greedy Thieves”

moe-pirate-by-takashina-masato

The fall of OneManga and the exchange of incendiary remarks between Sankaku Complex users and 2ch denizens continues, with the latest thread showing 2ch taking particular umbrage at such reported comments as “TV is free so manga should be free too!”

The latest exchange of fire was provoked by a Japanese news article highlighting the negative reaction of international fans to the closures:

“It’s weird that you have to pay for hamburgers when TV is free. McDonald’s should provide free hamburgers!”

“Writing manga and novels is tough. Just what do the guys saying ‘make it free’ think of the value of other people’s work?”

“Tell it to the publishers in your own country first!”

“Is TV free overseas?”

“In Japan it’s free too. What the hell are you talking about?”

“If TV is supposed to be free then please show me all those American movies and dramas for free too.”

“They’re pretty shameless even for a pack of beggars and thieves. If there are no official releases then get a company to import for you. If you can’t afford it then work.”

“Having to pay is weird. You pay every month for Internet. Make manga, music, anime and western movies free!”

“If you move to the system where ISPs have to pay money to a copyright association…”

“TV is free only because of advertising… think about it.”

“There are some like this in Japan too, but overseas otaku are just totally greedy and avaricious. You can’t make much of a market of their ilk.

They keep going on about making net contents free like it’s some great idea, but you just can’t make back your costs like this.”

“A question – how many millions of users did this site have? Will sales of manga increase without it? Or will they decrease without the publicity?”

“Who can say? They can either take the publicity or stop it for sales – in this case they chose to stop it.”

“A lot of the defenders were using that kind of sophistry to justify themselves. Not so much now though.”

“Without the site they have no way of knowing the manga at all, so it won’t sell in any case.”

“It seems if the anime is broadcast locally the manga sales tend to do well.

It seems that with people reading the manga for free and watching anime illegally, there’s no money in it so broadcasters drop it and as a result it continues not selling.”

“The attendance for events certainly went up, but at the same time sales were actually going down.”

“If they crackdown now their sales will only decrease even further…”

“What about the price difference between the US and Japan? Dragonball costs like $17.99?”

“America has price competition so you can get Dragonball for like $12 on Amazon. In Japan the same volume costs ¥980, so it’s actually about the same.”

“Considering the cost of translation, typesetting and distribution, $17.99 is not unreasonable.”

“Japanese publishers are idiots, aren’t they? Just making it all-you-can-read for $5-$10 a month would have probably worked nicely.”

“Really, Japanese publishers should be joining together to launch a single ‘free’ site to draw in all their fans and make money from that.”

“So TV is free? Then let’s have American comics distributed free as well?”

“TV is free? Where? You can’t watch anime for free anywhere on Japanese TV.”

“If you let our manga out of the country human rights groups overseas will just start complaining. Japan is weak to foreign pressure, so it ends up affecting domestic sales in Japan as well.

Just what merit is there to letting people who refuse to pay money read our manga?”

“They just want mangaka to work for their benefit for free. Try working for free yourselves before lecturing others.”

“Just getting rid of the cheapskates who won’t pay won’t harm the publishers at all.”

“Remember when some foreign pirates illegally downloaded an eroge and then their worthless media was all over it saying it should be banned? [See here & here] Not only do these bastards think they have a right to get everything for free, they also think they have the right to criticise us!”

“Some anime tried free distribution, delayed a week after the Japanese airing. They still complained about it being late and the subs not being good enough, saying fansubs were still better – honestly I don’t think you can work with these people at all.”

“At least buy the manga you worthless beggars.”

“I get the impression they could just release an ‘English version for foreigners resident in Japan’ – they might well get a lot of overseas orders…”

“I’m a copyright holder. Honestly if you’re going to end up with it being watched by foreigners like this, especially creepy Chinese and Koreans, don’t turn it into an anime at all. These guys will never pay for anything, they deserve to be treated like maggots.

The same goes for whites and blacks like this. They should all be sued into oblivion, the Japanese like this too!”

“yooooooooo
YOOOOOOOOOO”

“They need to completely ban all subs in English and Chinese – they’re all just translating the English version into the other languages so getting rid of it will help.”

“What do you expect from the American masses? It seems most of them can barely tell Japan and China apart.”

“Foreigners = pirates.”


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    Comment by Anonymous
    23:21 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Wrong approach, 2ch.

    The idea is not "TV is free, so manga should be too." More correct would be to say "the Japanese have a system of allowing potential consumers to preview a work for a relatively low price, whereas this system does not exist in America, so Americans are expected to purchase a product without any prior knowledge of the content; therefore, they turn to illegal distribution."

    For example, with televised anime, the Japanese pay two things-- their monthly cable bill and the time it takes to watch and possibly be swayed by advertisements-- to view an anime, possibly in it's entirety. A cable bill is rarely just paid only for anime, since you get so much other content for that; furthermore, very little of that goes to the studios or copyright holders. This leads to advertising. The consumer only pays for the anime in this way if they watch the ads instead of using a DVR, and if they decide to buy the product after having seen it; otherwise, you are watching anime for no additional marginal cost. Some of these users are confusing "paying for something" with "contributing to the copyright holders". Unless you believe that it is okay to watch fan subs if you pay the fansubber, this logic does not hold.

    If foreigners had a way to watch anime and be exposed to 5 minutes of advertising for it to be legal and relatively inexpensive (for example, little or no additional charge on top of the already-paid monthly cable bill), they would. This is called Crunchyroll, and it is doing quite well in the United States.

    Concerning manga sales, same thing applies, but slightly differently. Japan's preview market is the manga magazine, a relatively cheap format that allows a consumer to see a slew of different titles before purchasing. This is obviously less "free" than cable TV as there is a marginal cost, although that is offset by the share ability of the medium. (and Japanese folks, don't pretend that you don't sometimes preview magazines without buying the, we see you in the convenience stores ). In America, the series that do make it into manga magazines (in other words, Shonen Jump) are practically guaranteed to do well. Others suffer the same problem of a lack of a preview market.

    Finally, as to whether or not the introduction of an illicit preview market-- scanlations and fan subs-- hurts the industry, the answer is that for some it helps and for some it hurts, in the same vein that some people who watch the anime in TV in Japan will decide to buy it and others will feel satiated so they will not. To give my own example, I own something on the order of magnitude of a thousand volumes of manga, about 80-90% of which I first viewed via scanlations; lucky for me, i can buy the legit Chinese versions of things that wont make it to the US. There are plenty of titles I haven't ended up buying because I didn't think they were that good. But if a Japanese person does not buy the DVD for every anime they ever see on television, even the ones they don't like, they need to take the plank out of their own eyes first.

    Avatar of Taka
    Comment by Taka
    09:25 14/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Thank you for your post. I hope this gets over to the 2ch guys.

    Comment by Anonymous
    23:18 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    "These american pirates"
    "Foreigners are pirates"

    If these people want to be in the right they need to stop generalizing. As a Japanese man raised in the west these comments sound extremely juvenile and ignorant, not to say people are doing any better to try and be the better man.

    Besides, the main source of the raw material is uploaded by Japanese pirates. Hypocrisy? Racist? You decide.

    Avatar of General Jack D. Ripper
    23:34 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Probably both

    Someone in Japan will upload the raws where it is translated, then after a fiasco, 2ch will then make comments which makes it look like the foreign fans of anime and manga are the evil one.

    In short, if the something they are doing goes wrong, they blame others.

    Comment by Anonymous
    23:15 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Here's added firepower against 2ch:

    Japan: where stocks of chilled pantsu (to beat the summer heat?) sold out the next day (99% of which probably were sold to otakus populating 2ch).

    Comment by Anonymous
    23:06 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    today is the Day u almost captured captin jack sparow :O
    *downloads more anime while reading manga online* OwO

    Comment by Anonymous
    23:13 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    seeing like how niconico is airing the latest episodes of some anime for free for a week, maybe the same can be done for manga? Then the publicity vs sales problem could balance out?

    Comment by Anonymous
    23:25 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    2ch says "buy manga", but they actually use their parent's hard-worked money. Too bad.

    Comment by Anonymous
    23:41 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    *ahem* I'll just leave this here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T77RAXf8uE

    Comment by Anonymous
    23:51 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Like others have said before me, there is basically no other way to read manga or watch anime than to do it through the work of other fans, if you're not japanise. If you aren't sold what you would be willing to pay for (and not with months of delay, which is the case in official stuff) who is to blame you for taking it anyways.

    Avatar of Hyra911
    Comment by Hyra911
    23:31 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    The recent generation of Japan is a big disappointment compare to their grandfather, it's quite sad since I once take great interested in their cultural.

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:06 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    grandfather? u mean during WWII? man...u just made them look even more bad...now i really pitty them...

    Comment by Anonymous
    11:30 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    why pity? more fun to just laugh at them.

    Avatar of Ribbons
    Comment by Ribbons
    22:28 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    >These guys will never pay for anything, they deserve to be treated like maggots.

    Soldier from TF2 confirmed to be in Japan.

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:20 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Can't help but to laugh at 2ch comments... they reflect the reason why Japan is dying =) I wish the best of lucks to the japanese NEETs/otaku, who don't work either, and will remain virgin and sexually frustrated the rest of their lives =D

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:15 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    “If TV is supposed to be free then please show me all those American movies and dramas for free too.”

    I find this funny, when you can actually watch those American movies and dramas for free too, and not only American, plenty of movies/series/dramas available online from other countries as well, you just have to download them.
    its probably not even limited to just videos, there are plenty of comics, books etc etc available.

    There's only one requirement for most tough..

    You need to learn this magical language called:
    English

    (Its also requirement for watching most anime fan-subs.)

    and just in chase:
    "Its not fair I don't understand English"

    Its the world language, deal with it. Theres plenty of things that never get translated to my native language (Finnish), which include 99% of games, software, manga, anime.

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:05 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    japanese people are retards
    that's it :D

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:11 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Yey! Sankaku vs. 2ch! You're picking a formidable foe here Sankaku

    Comment by Anonymous
    08:28 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Foe as in a bunch of losers without jobs that leech off their parent's money?

    Yes, formidable.

    Comment by Anonymous
    21:42 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Dare I say that goes the same to the posters here? Although I suspect that Sankaku has its share of 12 year olds leeching free porn/hentai as well. However, it feels like defending the Alamo (on the part of Sankaku) with the sheer numbers of 2ch

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:14 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    ( not american, french )
    Japanese don't want us nor to buy it, nor to steal, but still, a LOT of foreign people really love about anime and manga, why should they prevent us from our hobby ?

    It may be because otaku fear foreign's critics about loli ( hum yummy loli ), but they're already being criticised in japan.. aren't they proud to be an otaku ?
    I am. And no matters whoever from wherever tell me i'm gross, i'll just ignore it and fap on magical girl.

    Avatar of PonySlaystation
    Comment by PonySlaystation
    22:51 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    @#$%ING HELL!!!
    How many the @#$%ing times does this shit have to happen!
    Cant we all ****ing hav some peace and quiet for once!
    lets get this straight 2ch wussy/pissy harrassments aint gonna do shit and we have enough freakin trolls and shit around adding fuel to fire.
    ARENT U PEOPLE TIRED OF THIS SHIT ALREADY!! SAME SHIT IS GONNA HAPPEN! NOTHING IS GONNA @#$%ING CHANGE! JUST LEAVE IT ALREADY!

    anger eliminated...mentality back to normal... nervous system back to regular operation.

    Avatar of Ribbons
    Comment by Ribbons
    23:02 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    You're allowed to swear on the internet, dude. No need to censor yourself if they're not going to.

    Avatar of PonySlaystation
    Comment by PonySlaystation
    23:07 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    yea, i kinda know. just that i'm not use to actual swearing that often and i just happened to be really ticked off. plus, if i insult them too much, probably just gonna add more fuel to fire but they'll get the point...hopefully

    Avatar of Shuubi
    Comment by Shuubi
    22:53 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    YOU WOULDNT DOWNLOAD A CAR

    Avatar of Ribbons
    Comment by Ribbons
    23:02 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    FUCK YOU
    I WOULD IF I COULD

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:47 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Most of you assholes never buy any anime or manga, seriously there are 1000's of different animes and mangas available in stores like rightstuf or animecornerstore. And there are a lot of cheap anime in amazon and ebay. if you don't buy any anime or manga you are not an anime fan at least support the anime industry.

    Avatar of Ribbons
    Comment by Ribbons
    23:04 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    But see, people also have to pay for things like rent and food. They also would like to buy series that they actually like and not play the hit and miss game that'd otherwise throw their money out the window.

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:42 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    In this thread: xenophobia. Their fear of criticism just proves they think they are right in everything they do and how dare any foreigners think otherwise. Its quite sad actually. I think the most intelligent thing said was "make them pay $5/$10 per month for unlimited usage", that is by far the best idea, instead of us "maggots" being kept away from their genre.

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:34 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    >the most intelligent thing said was "make them pay $5/$10 per month for unlimited usage", that is by far the best idea

    Yeah your the most becoming one who should move to communistic nation.

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:42 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Do us a favor, Japanese otakus. Lobby the US government to accept lolicon.

    Avatar of Ribbons
    Comment by Ribbons
    22:46 12/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    As if that's ever going to sit well with government.

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:53 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    TV's free? tell that to my 50 dollar a month cable fee. I suppose antenna TV is free but you only get like 10 channels where I live.

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:49 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    I'll bet anything that the amount of anime/manga piracy in Japan is just as bad, if not worse than it is outside of Japan.

    I mean, no way everyone is willing to pay 50,000yen just for 1 series. The hardcore otakus maybe, but I'm sure it gets tons of pirated downloads.

    2ch is just a bunch of hypocritical racist faggots.

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:48 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    You know what, I download Anime series and movies and because of that I legaly own between 200-300 anime's. Before I could download anime I would very rarely buy anime for the simple fact that because I could not preview it before hand and got burned 2 out of 3 times buying a crappy show that was not worth the money and support. Before I could download I had to go buy word of mouth and reviews and because of several bad investments I became extremely reluctant to buy anything. But thanks to illegal downloading I can now preview them and buy the one's that are good and worth the money and thus the risk became a lot less of buying bad shows that do not deserve support, thus increasing the amount I would buy from then on. So yeah I do not feel guilty for downloading even tho it's illegal, cause in the end I made me spend more money in buying it legaly. But if you really want to make me buy less legaly or nothing at all anymore, I will gladly stop downloading, but don't come crying when sales and profit go down because people buy less because of it, that will simply be your own fault. Either take the bad with the good or don't take it at all. ;).

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:42 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Hoist the colours high Capitain Harlock with us !

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxkBD3kbpUA

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:44 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Some says The Top Gears of BBC2 is being subbed by nicovideo users.

    http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7763465

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:45 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    sancom bastard !!

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:46 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    HOLY SHIT so many comments here! xD

    Anyway, people should just stop crying. We're no worse than Japanese and Japanese are no worse than us. Things aren't free and I personally read Manga online and BUY IT AS WELL. There are actually people who do both. If it wasn't for online manga I wouldn't have known that there was manga to begin with. But please be a nationalist some more and spout more BS on the subject just for general amusement.

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:59 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    I . . . . .I . . . . .I like blueberry muffins. There, I said it.
    <__<

    Comment by Anonymous
    01:10 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Silly Japanese people think Americans can't tell two different cultures apart. It is kind of funny how they think we're all just a happy bunch of pirating idiots. I say if anything gets put on the internet, people shouldn't be surprised if people look at it, let alone download it.

    Comment by Anonymous
    01:06 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AzpByR3MvI
    We are all pirates...

    Comment by Anonymous
    01:03 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    I pay for good anime and manga, shitty ones i download for free.

    Comment by Anonymous
    01:04 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Several of my Japanese contact told me that lot's of Japanese download western stuff by the truckload. Some because the can't pay for it, some because it is hardly availible there, some for preview purpose and some because they believe as a Japanese person they don't have to pay for it since it does not come from Japan because we all know that the japanese are the master race -_-. Anyway they download for the same reasons as the western world does, they are no better or worst in most cases. So yeah hypocrite much?

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:41 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    TV is free here.

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:16 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Well let me tell u something u ASIAN PRICKS.

    If I could buy manga anywhere in my country i would.

    NOW STFU!!!

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:20 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    If we are pirates we need to pillage and loot Japan. We will kidnapp, have consensual sex with all their ladies and steal their mangas. Seiyu girls and japanese girls should be free to have sex with us, the foreign pirates. Be careful Japan, the pirates are coming. Let's raid Japan !

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:26 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    We need an official pirate song. I propose this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG1WZqHTLQU or we could steal Harlock songs.

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:22 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Hold up...

    This little feud could only persist if each side had access to translations of the other's posts. Who, exactly, is making said translations available? And what evidence do we have that he's not just playing us against each other in an evil scheme to generate lulz from our tears?

    Avatar of Phil
    Comment by Phil
    00:32 13/08/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Just remember.. all these insults are coming from the same people who send death threats to idols and seiyuu for having boyfriends... When American actresses and singer or whatever get married we RESPECT THEIR LIFE CHOICES! I mean damn what a concept here we don't actually try to ruin their lives or tell them how to live them! Stupid Japanese think they can rule the lives of others without any consequences then want to complain about the issues we have in some of our society. F'n hypocrits!




















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