The US government has been accused of issuing a “silent apology” for its atom bombing of Japan by sending an ambassador to a ceremony marking the 65th anniversary of Hiroshima being bombed.
The 65th anniversary ceremony of the Hiroshima bombing was attended by a US delegation led by the US Ambassador to Japan, the first such presence at the ceremony. The ambassador claims the visit is intended to “show respect for all of the victims” of the war.
However, his presence has been decried as tantamount to an apology by those concerned that the fact America was defending itself from a sneak attack by a nation bent on its complete destruction is being forgotten in favour of an account based on the much-cherished victimhood of atom bomb survivors.
The son of Paul Tibbets, the deceased pilot of the Enola Gay, is particularly incensed, calling the attendance an “unspoken apology,” and saying it promotes a warped view of Japan as being the victim of a US atrocity:
“It’s making the Japanese look like they’re the poor people, like they didn’t do anything. They hit Pearl Harbor, they struck us. We didn’t slaughter the Japanese. We stopped the war.”
It is generally accepted that a ground invasion, thought to be the only way of compelling Japanese surrender prior to the use of nuclear weapons, would have cost hundreds of thousands of American lives, to say nothing of those of millions of Japanese in and out of uniform.
2ch weighs in surprisingly cogently for once:
“There were all kinds of hellish battlefields in the war, some caused by the Japanese army themselves. Pearl Harbor must have been like that too. Do the hibakusha [atomic bomb survivors] really have the right to judge which is worse?”
“The bombs were unnecessary – it was all just so the Americans could get data on their effectiveness!”
“It’s 65 years on and those stupid American monkeys finally get it.”
Hiroshima and Nagasaki just think they are the only places in the world ever to experience the hell of battle – they are just incorrigible.”
“Those damn hibakusha never shut up about this stuff. It’s one part of the war, why does it deserve such special treatment?”
“It was horrible what happened to them, but Japan was pursuing its own nuclear bomb project at the same time as the US. And however you look at it, Japan started the war.”
“Americans are barbarians who don’t know how to properly lament the passing of the dead.”
“It makes no sense whatsoever for people to making an issue of killing people in a war. War is already bad, but it’s meaningless to bring ethics in when its a choice of killing or being killed.”
“There are a lot of crazies here saying the bomb was justified. What’s wrong with you loons?”
“As expected, Americans don’t care at all about killing 100,000 people if they’re orientals”.
“It’s a war crime and the US must apologise.”
“For the US national interest it must have the right choice. They showed their might and got the data, and they were able to entire the cold war in an advantageous position, and eventually win it.”
“Why think only of the US national interest?
The bomb ended the war quickly with no additional devastation or fighting on the Japanese mainland, saving millions. This is a matter of historical fact.
We should rather be thankful they dropped it, and recognise that they have no need to apologise.”
“I just do not understand the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and why they think you should apologise for killing people in a war.”
“I can sympathise with an individual saying they are a victim of an A-bomb, but I can’t stand it when they say our whole country is the world’s only A-bomb victim.”
“Next up, compensation.”
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The US never had their continental territory invaded or bombed by a foreign power, so they never learned the true horror of the war and don't have humility admit theirs faults. In spite of that they keep bringing war and terror to many contries for over a century now. "All in the name of peace and freedom", hah! I hope someday they get what they deserve.
So bombing of our country outside of the continental states was ok in your eyes? Hawaii was only an Island and didn't count???
I guess Japan didn't count then either seeing that it is only an Island.
Don't be upset that we ended the fight that Japan started.
This made me laugh. We never bombed "continental" Japan.
I have a feeling people with mindsets like yours help Earth society continue on with random acts of violence against itself we call wars. I'm sure it's not just mindsets like yours though, there are plenty in the world who seem to feel like they need to kill millions of people for some reason or another. One day everyone will realize we're not a bunch of countries, we're a single planet, but more likely there won't be a planet left by the time that logical conclusion can be made.
I'm replying sooo late but the British sacked and burnt DC back in the war of 1812. Plus you forget taht the entire Revolution was fought on soon-to-be US ground. Also, the Civil War was fought on US ground as well and the Union burnt and razed southern cities.
USA has been partially invaded and bombed... by the Imperial forces during the event of Pearl Harbor bombing. There was shooting, bombing, and kamikaze pilots plowing into US military base. USA has also been threatened via Cuban Missile Crisis. JFK was a smart and smooth talker to save US from bombing. The most recent bombing in USA was through 2 airplanes toppling WTC.
Get your facts straight before babbling.
Why is America so hung upon Pearl Harbor? It's like a spoiled little kid whining about being slapped for the first time. "WAAAH YOU HURT MEEE! HOW DARE YOU!!"
Fact: Pearl Harbor was nowhere near as bad as much of what happened in the war, and it's not even comparable to the two nukes (which were mostly dropped to show Russia the US' power).
Irony's a fun thing, isn't it? And that wasn't a complement.
What made Japan decide to surrender was not the destruction of a city but instead the power of the bomb itself. Their leaders saw that with nuclear weapons in the equation, their country could be destroyed in a matter of days, without any final banzai charges or "honor". This is what made them surrender.
So in hindsight, the US did not have to nuke Hiroshima and certainly not Nagasaki, all that twas needed was to explode the bomb in a place where the Japanese could behold it. If this method had been used, the 250,000 people killed by the bombs could have been saved, and Japan would have still surrendered out of fear of nuclear holocaust.
But in the whole of WW2 over 60 million people were killed, and the fact remains that the US, as well as every other involved nation, was under a different mindset; it can not be expected that even the US would have been perfect especially in such a brutal conflict. The dropping of the nuclear bombs was massively preferable to conventional invasion, which would have utilized nukes anyway. I say that the US did a relatively good job given the atmosphere.
Now, it's still important that we (I'm American) apologize once we recognize our mistakes, regardless of how much more "well-behaved" we were compared to the Japanese or Germans. I believe that the method in which the nukes were used to end the war (namely, by nuking a city and not making a demonstration) were overkill and that it would be good for the US to apologize.
And for some optimism, maybe if we apologize to them, they will feel more comfortable about apologizing for their own crimes.
I'm totally agreeing with you, rather than dropping it on the city, its better to drop it somewhere the japanese can see as a warning.
some people said civilians are ok to kill because they provide income for the country to fund the war, but what can they do? They are just doing their normal daily routine to live, to support their family.
Thats why the target should be the government, not civilians. We all know soldiers fight mainly not for their 'country', but their 'family' or their 'special person' back in the 'country'. If you nuke them, I think the soldier may get more angry and lusts for revenge.
Although I'm not american nor japanese, I think they(japanese) deserves an apology.
There's no need for apology because this was a "WAR" that was initiated by the Japanese unto America. USA retaliated and that was that. Japan is still flagged for Unit 731, Nanking Massacre, Contest to kill a hundred, comfort women, and many more. It is true there were many innocent victims killed by the A-bomb, but there were much more victims caused by Japan than America did to Japan. Hell, USA even let the Emperor live after Japan surrendered.
Besides, this is an issue between the old generation; our generation is to educate ourselves about the history and try not to take the wrong step again.
Really now, what do you think would have happened if they'd killed off the emperor?
Well, not that I know, but whatever.
Dear anon@06:54,
Everything in life is so much clearer in hindsight, but judging the past by today's standards is the act of a child.
There are some interesting arguments about the futility of the use of the atomic bombs on Japan at the end of World War II. The bombs, as horrific as they were, may have had little effect upon many who were in power. That, of course, is either hindsight or knowledge that the USA did not have at the time it dropped them.
There was zero chance of not dropping them. No President could explain to the families of the dead soldiers why he did not use a weapon but chose to sacrifice their sons invading the Japanese home islands instead.
Japanese recalcitrance toward any sort of surrender, particularly by those in power, meant the bombs were not effective. What was likely the cause of Japanese surrender was the entry of Russia into the war against them. They had defeated Russia a few decades earlier, in fact humiliating the Russian navy.
The Japanese did not want to be subjugated by a country they had previously defeated. But whether it was the almost certain likelihood of Russia's voracious appetite for Japanese territory or the prodding of the mushroom clouds that caused them to back away from total annihilation of their country, that they got there was their choice.
If the USA needs to apologize, it is for facilitating their initial push to become an Asian colonizer by occupying Korea in 1905. That was more likely a tipping point in history that the USA (read a bit of history about Teddy Roosevelt and his Nobel Peace Prize) that we were truly culpable for, ignoring the pleas of Korea and handing them over to Japan to help end the Russian-Japanese war and allow Russia (then under Czarist rule) to keep face in defeat.
The USA's recent (at that time) entry into colonizing foreign lands (the conquest of the Philippines, plus the retention of Guam and Puerto Rico from the Spanish American War) was quite possibly a cause for America's approval of Japan colonizing Korea.
But to the thousands that lost family members on the beaches and battlefields of the Pacific and in the POW camps run by the Japanese, the idea that the USA should apologize for bombing the home islands, regardless of the technology used, is simply ludicrous when viewed in relation the sacrifices made for your current freedom.
Japan, in the early 20th century, made its own bed, just as Germany did with the Nazis. No one owes any of them an apology, though we all should acknowledge the tragedy of events that lead to such a terrible waste of life.
Effing software stripped my paragraphs out. Editing won't let me put the paragraph spacing back in. Sorry for such a large monolithic block of text.
We stopped an enemy that would not back down, would not surrender, and would not let the war end until there was no possible way to win. The Japanese soldiers were so hellbent on winning a horrific war, they'd use their planes as ammo if their guns were empty.
The Japanese in charge of the POW camps did unspeakable, evil those they captured. They considered the prisoners sub-human, because western soldiers weren't willing to kamakazi, and thus had no honour.
The only way to stop such an unreasonable and unstopping foe, was to show them that we were tired of their shit, and that we weren't going to just let them win this.
The bombs melted a lot of innocent people, and that's more than a little unfortunate, but it had to be done. We were tired of fucking around in a drawn-out war that wasn't really getting anyone anywhere. As unfortunate as it was for the Japanese, there was no other recourse, and there's no reason for America to apologize.
Considering the amount of games, anime, and whatnot that all feature an analogy for America being a big evil bully who pushes innocent little Japan in the mud, I'm honestly surprised and happy to see that 2ch, of all people, can be logical about this.
Why attack cities and innocent people with the bombs instead of millitary or industrial important targets?
Oh yes your government wanted to see how it looks like if an entire city gets hit by one of those new bombs.
The same happend in Germany, USA claimed they were only targeting industry and millitary targets, but thousands of phosphor bombs on a city are not meant to destroy industry or millitary, they are meant to decimate the population.
In that point the USA were no better than any Nazi.
oooh, droppin' the ineffectual Godwin's Law on us all, huh? That's the a-bomb of accusations.
What about the Rape of Nanking and other atrocities the Japanese show during their occupation?
And what about Vietnam or the US atrocities in Afghanistan and Iraq?
Yes, these have about as much to do with the nukes as the Rape of Nanking.
americans already forgot about the fuckin guantanamo
probably young americans think that guantanamo is a Pokemon type
Nah, I'm sure they could come up with some retarded explanation to justify it.
forget that fucking fabrication
The sad fact is that Japan didn't agree to surrender after the atomic bombs were droped. They only agreed to surrender after the USSR captured Manchukuo and even then some factions still wanted to continue the war.
Whats more Japan has never apologized for any of the countless atrocities it soldiers commented on USA, China(and surround countries), and Japanese who were raped by their own soldiers.
The Potsdam Declaration forced the USA to demand unconditional surrender.
They didn't agree to surrender because the terms of surrender were unacceptable. They were in fact trying to negotiate but the US kept stalling the talks because they wanted Russia to see the bombs' power.
And Japan DID apologize. More than once.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan
fukin gringos, they get hit in a military base.... they reply by fukin bombing civilian targets
I can't wait for the day they kill themselves
americans always say that nukes were necessary to stop the war.
what about the tokyo fire raids? they burned down the city to ash (since made of wood building) and civilian people too.
read this, if you are not stupid:
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/tokyo.htm
Guillain, Robert, I Saw Tokyo Burning (1981)
Werrell, Kenneth, Blankets of Fire: US. Bombers over Japan During World War II (1996).
Some of the posters sound like my ex-girlfriend. "You should apologize from the bottom of your heart but only in the manner that I tell you!"
The second step can't be made without the first one. And, it *was* war after all. Sneak attacking a country that wasn't exactly secretive about their strongest weapon and one that may or may not have been a bit eager to test it isn't exactly the smart thing to do.
That event is essentially why North Korea's leader is allowed to be so bat shit crazy. Nobody wants a repeat of it. Period. It was an atrocity and always has and always shall be treated as such. Add in your Chernobyls and (to a far, far lesser extent) your Three Mile Islands and you get even the most hardened war-mongers slinking sheepishly away at the mention of anything nuclear as it pertains to weaponry.
That said, there have been far more atrocious things (maybe none more frightening in concept) done by those toting war's bloodied banner.
Millions of lives were at stake.
Also a possible Russian invasion of Japan.
Casualties were pilling up for both sides.
Japan would never admit defeat or an armistice.
I think of too many variables and one only viable solution: Nuke'em. Twice.
Why twice? Because one was demonstrated not enough for japs to surrender.
Did they deserve it? I'm not the one to judge them, but koreans, chinese, thais, viets and birmanians, who suffered their invasion.
You Americans are so ignorant and short-sighted.
Russia wasn't about to invade Japan, not right then and now. However by then the Cold War has already started and the US wanted to show Russia that it has these horrible and poweful weapons and is not afraid to use them. THIS is why you nuked Japan. Japan was already defeated and was about to surrender. If you only LET them surrender you could've still occupied them without senselessly wasting civilian lives.
whoever thinks the atomic bomb is not necessary IS RETARDED. Not only does the a-bomb makes the war end quicker,it also prevents further casualties on both sides.I know there's no "ifs" for past events but supposed Japan didn't surrender,the US will have no choice but to move on to bomb or land on the main islands of Japan,by then the death toll will very likely be way higher than wiping those 2 cities out.
Besides,did you guys really need to see some pictures of victims brutally murdered or raped by japanese? Do a google search it's not that hard. I'm not familiar with the numbers but I'm guessing there's at least half a million or a million ppl killed or died indirectly because of the war waged by Japanese. Do you think there's no consequences for this large scale of crime? Use your brain and you know it's totally justified to use the a-bombs. Japanese need to stop pretending as a victim,look at what your country did to your neighbours,totally deserved.
I hope you realize that that was only an advanzage for the USA?
I mean they still could have lost the war on the japanese mainland like they did with Vietnam.
But nevertheless I saw some rare picture from some people who sorvived the bomb, ine for example showed a young girl at the beach side which entire skin was ripped of her body by the bomb (yes she survived and yes she lost all outer skin), there is nothing you can say that will ever make the A-Bomb use sound reasonable and still claiming it as just a test and not war use makes it worse.
In all fairness, there's rarely ever a true justification for war or its resulting atrocities. It's just human/animal nature and war generally happens as a result of the most trivial disagreements. Skin color? Trivial. Territory? Trivial. A 'Yo momma' joke gone wrong? ... well that'd actually be pretty entertaining.
Tell that to this "much-more-informed-than-thou U.S. Fleet Admiral" if you will:
"The use of [the atomic bombs] at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons... The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children."
Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy, Chief of Staff to President Truman.
And if you want to check the sources:
Leahy, William D. (1950). I was there. New York. p. 441.
That the Japanese had been butchers doesn't mean that the U.S. had to lower themselves to their level. They could have won keeping the moral high ground but choose not to for strategic reasons against the Soviets.
I read the US faced criticism for NOT apologizing during this ceremony.
Japan still didn't surrender for several days after the second nuke was dropped. A land battle would have been a bloody and destructive war of attrition. This was the only way.
in the end, what i think people don't realize is that those casualties of Nagasaki and Hiroshima are predominantly civilians. it is in no way right to murder (yes murder) civilians in order to achieve a military victory. yes, if we invaded by ground, many civilians would have died, but at the very least, their deaths could have been avoided. as far as an apology, i think that it is deserved, not to japan in general, but to all the people and families that where literally denigrated. that is my opinion on this matter.
agreed, word for word
There's aloooot of opinions, but, you know what:
Doesnt matter what Japan did before that tragedy. NOTHING can justify such a slaughter of innocent civilians: kids and womens. Imagine, you wake up early morning, go to shcool as usual, and boom, YOU'RE FUCKING DEAD. Those kids didnt deserve it. No matter how many lives that strike must have saved, it's still cannot be justified.
I swear that I would kill the general who gave order to drop the bomb, personally, and very painfully.
So nothing justifies Nanjing as well. Hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians killed, women raped and promptly gutted with a knife, and babies were either decapitated or stuck onto bayonets.
The atomic bomb was used to prevent American deaths, or so they say, right?
The massacre in Nanjing and all of China, was it really to prevent deaths? Or were the Japanese trying to show their "superiority" over their neighbors again?
Agreed. Then again, no act in War is justified, whether on civilians or not.
If you think how many civilians have died in the past, and continue to do so today because of War, it just makes you realize how stupid humans really are. Really.
french irregular troops made the same thing to italian civilians.
that is after the battle of montecassino, where allied troops bombed a _monastry_ because they thought it was full of nazi.
The only thing we should apologize for is not forcing English upon them, like they tried to force the rest of Asian to learn Japanese under their regime.
nukes weren't necessary, US used it because of their high handed attitude; they thought none would have criticized them once they had won.
US high handed, imposing attitude is always present in that country, and we see it everyday here.
hope one day americans understand world isn't their property. i'm european and i'm tired to read the usual american crap about how they saved the world dropping nukes. only stupid americans can believe you can save the world dropping nukes.
nuke are the worst crap stupid human mind can conceive.
iff you like nukes, drop one in your anus.
Robert Oppenheimer, David Bohm, Leo Szilard, Eugene Wigner, Otto Frisch, Rudolf Peierls, Felix Bloch, Niels Bohr, Emilio Segre, James Franck, Enrico Fermi, Klaus Fuchs and Edward Teller ..
weren't genius.
THEY WERE FUCKIN' HUMAN SCUM, since they used science to commit overkill. They KNEW atomic bomb would have been used on PEOPLE.
The fuckin' retarded Teller weren't satisfied enough, and invented the fuckin' ulam-teller design.
Books sat "He thought a bigger bomb would have manteined peace".
SO FUCK! americans discovered the cold war effects many years later. in the '50 US would have used EVERYTHING against URSS in any moment.
Teller and the remaining crap-humans invented nukes to use them on people. SO FUCK!
Teller is from my country and I still think he's fucking scum.
FUCK THE USA!EVERYONE SHOULD DIE!
9/11.2001 BEST DAY!!
2/10 you made it too obvious son, troll with more efforts please.
By ending the war quickly they also prevented the russians from getting involved. If Japan had ended up like eastern europe the country would probably look quite different today.
Bombing civilian population is a war crime, but in the end it might have been the least evil solution out of the available options.
Russia had its hands full in Europe, it would've taken a long time before they even got around to do anything with Japan.