Publishers: “Making Videos of Our Games is Piracy”

Of course. You are stealing publishers' ability to sell official walkthroughs! That's unforgivable and all doing this must be eliminaARRRRGH!

Do they exist for visual novels though?

@Tenno "Do they exist for Vns though?"

Not really though.

since most walktroughs, tips and tricks are made and managed by Third Party websites like "foolmaker" and mostly forum wikia.

But one that is "half-official" is the AliceSoft Wikia, since they made an agreement to Alicesoft themselves, to make free walktroughs, but still obeying the copyright rule, where they're only allowed to use pictures from Alice soft only. Not Screenshots.

Official walkthroughs suck anyway

that all depends on the game.

some games, like disgaea and the like, the official walkthrough are more through than most, if not all, fan ones.

Well, I kinda somewhat understand this issue. So far, only the visual novel creators have complained. And what is visual novels? They are like digitalised books. Really. We aren't doing much but click and read through the game.

Quote from the world only god knows
"10 hours more of continuous dialog are not a game, it's the freaking newspaper"

They encourage it actually. My statement was purely facetious.

First of all, I work in games. So don't pretend I know shit about them. It's you who parrot the same bullshit all pirates pretend makes it their right to pirate the games we make. What you don't even factor into anything is the fact that spoiled brats think of piracy as their right because of the lamebrain justification you just rattled off. Same shit, different day. All of it is in reaction to piracy.

What is happening is a spiraling downward of one screwing over the other. Pirates started downloading games, so they started raising the prices, raising the prices caused more piracy, the market got flooded with games so more piracy occured and therefore reduced sales even more under the guise of 'trying it out.' The market flooding assisted the transition, but it killed itself within two or three years, but the damage had been done. And it wasn't just the flood. People gaining access to things didn't stop the nobility. In the earlier days of the net, when the fansub creedo still held honor, the 'purchase the release in America for support' aspect, we of the older gamer generation may have downloaded one or two, but still bought our games. I've never pirated a game that I hadn't purchased.

DLC was created because it was something that was necessary. If someone loved a game and wanted to feel like it was complete, they had to buy it to get the DLC. It was incentive. Unfortunately, it became something of a cash cow mentality. It started as a 'gift' for preordering and still continues like that in many ways, but expanded to the current whoring of DLC.

It is the responsibility of BOTH sides equally. Publishers are dying. There are no game jobs out there for me now because nobody is hiring, teams are getting laid off, entire centers are shutting down, because every company that doesn't have a blockbuster title is basically failing. Part of that is of course the cost of the next gen titles, the rest is because there's no guarantee anymore any funding will return. That's why everyone's doing MMOs now, becuase it's the only thing that has a chance of a return for younger companies. You can probably mention about half a dozen smaller 'apps' that are cash cows, the rest they are frantically creating content for new apps because their profits won't last them a few months.

You think companies advertise their desperation? You have no idea.

120-200? Are you an idiot? Top level VNs cost around $100 tops.

so tell me this then: why did you made game?
to entertain people right?how the fuck we could be entertained by some half assed games that have every cliche in every corner on the games,and top of that its like 100$ per game are you fuckin kidding me??
or the purpose is money?? money right??you tell me 100$ half assed game vs 0$ half assed game (downloaded) why you bother made it? if the purpose is money,nobody will fucking buy it,they rather learning how to pirate the fucking games!!
i love pirates they made my day everday,you concerned about the company?? dont worry the big one wont die even their games was pirated,the small one will die but eventually they rise again somewhere even they not the same people like some fucking stupid ingrates that waited to be pirated and of course they will bluffing like will make you go to prison will trace the download site,HaH! internet never dies you fucking money minded asshole!!

GUYS!!! we're talking about VNs HERE, not shitty DLC, or worth or not worth.

Please stay on topic.

Can I just say, as the Anon who started this line...that I'm reaaaaaaaally happy that I got a full +1.0 rating? =D Never had that on any of my posts before, logged in or not (Xxccben logged in).

@ Anon 22:52

Of course we do it because we love it. Where does it say that we cannot make a game for our love of it, to grant enjoyment to people, and get compensation for our livelihood and survival? We provide a service to people, and we expect a paycheck and compensation. The only time things that are free in life are because of charity or thievery, and I didn't do this for the homeless.

It's the same thing as walking into a restaurant and saying you want a steak. They go and make a steak for you and it's a decent steak, but not the best you've ever had, so you don't pay at all. It makes no sense unless you are just a pure asshole. Pirates somehow think that if the game hasn't done some kind of life-altering magical experience for them that it's not worth anything. That's the spoiled brat logic, and is in every sense of the word, wrong. If you are the type who can't sense when a game is good or bad, that's where reviews come in. I can tell by the cover of a game if I will enjoy it or not, and with only a few exceptions, I have never been let down.

My compromise would be to have more demos available for games in the industry so that people can get a feel for them. That way the 'want to try it out' logic has been sated. But still people like you will somehow think "Why should I have to pay money for entertainment that isn't perfect" or some self-righteous bullshit like that.

Anonymous
19:38

i never said anything advocating piracy, i dont believe at least... i just said that the numbers they are quoteing are not a representation of what they lose in sales.

its like the movie industry trying to claim that if people didn't download a movie they would have went to a theater or bought the dvd. thats bullshit.

the number may say its been downloaded 100000 times, but that doesn't mean they would pay to see it.

now here, get your fucking facts straight. pirating made the prices raise? no, see last gen developers made special editions of games, and made them cost 60$. somehow this was a test to see if people would pay for a 60$ game. i know its backwards logic, but i believe madden, halo 2, and i forget the other 2 were in on it. they bought the limited editions because of the extras and were willing to fork 10$ more for it. the test was settled as yes they are willing, and now next gen games cost more. ever sense than they have been trying to justify the price sense.

dlc was created because some devs decided that a map pack or the like that use to be 100% free, just wasn't doing it for them any more. i believe the first dlc that i was aware of was for halo 2.

while buying a map pack for an extremely popular game is ok and all, and i can even defend them as they did work and should be payed, but look at what most of these cocksucker charge for these. an expansion pack cost anywhere between 20-40$ always less than the original games price. modern warfare for example has charged 15-20$ i forget which, for 3 maps and most of them aren't even fucking new. dlc has been bastardized into something that cant be defended. look at disgaea, most if its dlc is on fucking disc. and for every bad there is a good, look at borderlands. they have 3 dlcs which if put into an expansion pack would be more than worth the extra 30$

bottom line there is dlc is used to fuck consumers 90% of the time. o and let me ask, in modern warfare can you have fan created anything because of the server things pc side? i think i may know why they did that now.

now i have to break down what you said.

"It is the responsibility of BOTH sides equally. Publishers are dying."

who fucking cares about publishers, i care about developers. publishers are unnecessary, and will only be around for so much longer.

"There are no game jobs out there for me now because nobody is hiring, teams are getting laid off, entire centers are shutting down, because every company that doesn't have a blockbuster title is basically failing."

actually, there are jobs for talent. teams are dieing mostly because they fail to make a great game, they dont need a block buster they just have to do the math of we have this many people and out game is a compilation of all the good games, i see no way for this to tank.

if you dont have an original idea, than prefect the genre, and if you cant do that, dont have a massive dev team.

i feal for them some times, but seriously make a competent game in a timely fashion and this shit wont happen

"Part of that is of course the cost of the next gen titles, the rest is because there's no guarantee anymore any funding will return."

let me point out some numbers here. epic micky, i believe, has a dev team of over 400 people. i cant name the games, but most indi games that made it to e3, have been in development for less than 2 year are as good as big publishers in terms of game play and graphics, but have a dev team or 20 or less. allot of well known teams have an obscene amount of people, and the more they have the less risk they will take, and the less risk the more stale, the more stale, the less profit, the less profit the more likely they are to tank.

"That's why everyone's doing MMOs now, becuase it's the only thing that has a chance of a return for younger companies."

that is bullshit and you know it. mmos fail horribly in making money, however they make enough to stay afloat for years most of the time.

they want to emulate wow which pulls billions a year. which isnt fucking happening, at best they may pull a mill a month for smaller games. and with a large portion going to the server cost and paying staff, the over all profit is very little.

and if all these smaller devs can think og is an mmo and te make more money, than FUCK THEM i hope they fail hard.

if you go out with a plan to make a great mmo, and hope to keep it alive a long time than the best of wishes but emulate wow and make paper can all die in fire as far as im concerend.

"You can probably mention about half a dozen smaller 'apps' that are cash cows, the rest they are frantically creating content for new apps because their profits won't last them a few months."

apps aren't fucking games. they are money sinks that are almost a guaranteed 5000$ for very little work in what could be done in a week in flash if the people know it good enough. there are a few apps that are games, but hell no, i talk about psn games or arcade games, or even wiiware when i say indi developers.

"You think companies advertise their desperation? You have no idea."

no but they also dont tell us how much they shit away unnecessary expenses, like keeping a massive 300+ dev team afloat. for a large game with massive art, i get that you need that much, but not for a fucking wii game like epic micky.

Anonymous
20:42

if you are lucky to get your hands on it day one, as in you caped out and got first in line. however big name games will get put in stores kind of like gamestop, except they ask for way more than the games initial worth. i know there was a time when tsukhime (spelt that wrong) costed 200$ minimum.

see games over there, especially the vn like games, work FER differently than games are over here.

Anonymous
22:52

your comment was backwards but i get what you mean, ill try to translate.

the big will live regardless, the little will die but its there own fault for cashing in.

i dont agree but i understand your point.

The increase in price occured because of exactly what you said: the increase in cost for next gen games. And the preorder bonuses and DLC exist to give incentive, as I said, because so many pirates steal things, and DLC and preorder incentives make it so that you must take action and actual put money toward the game to acquire them. It also gives the companies MUCH NEEDED income over the months leading up to the game's release to assist in funding.

For example, many startup companies are based on investment, as mine was. Investors think in a certain way, and it's the job of marketing to determine how best to get the most sales to the most people with their limited marketing budget. Much of that budget for the intelligent companies put that toward art books and unique items that actually have value to people and can be used practically so that people actually want it. Guys have use for posters and such of things they enjoy.

And if you don't think companies need 400 people, I guess you don't mind waiting 6 years for anything then? They need the big teams because larger numbers will seem much less horrid to investors and publishers when they will be guaranteed a return in a shorter amount of time. The games industry evolves too fast graphically to sit on a project for years anymore.

I was on a dev team of less than 50, and I worked for 12 hour days for three months straight to cover the amount I needed to do. The stress of the level of detail we needed to achieve to compete at all caused a lot of problems and killed our momentum. By the end we barely could handle the release and even then it had several issues. We worked our asses off, and if we'd had a bigger team, we could have hit every deadline with enough sleep and concentration to make a much better game. You cannot possibly fathom the amount of intensity is involved in modern video games unless you've actually worked for one.

And also the key problem is so many spoiled gamers and asshole pirates somehow believe that if a game isn't perfect, it's shit and not worth money, but they still steal it and play it. And that is spoiled, and only a spoiled brat would say otherwise. It takes an incredible team with incredible communication and coordination, which is actually exceptionally rare (and requires years together), to make a truly great game without breaking the bank. But even then, there are only so many game genres and modes and possibilities out there, and they all must follow certain gameplay elements that people are used to. It's impossible not to be used to them, but then everyone judges everything based on everything else, and nothing ever gets seen for its own value. Every FPS is judged by the Halo crowd for consoles. I judge all FPSs against Deus Ex personally, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying them or being happy I supported them for giving me hours of play time.

anon
07:56 04/07/2010
so what you meaning to say is this:

i love making game,i love you guys too,but sadly enough too say our games isn't that great its our best but of course our best is no good at all,but we still expect you buy our games why? because of course WE LOVE YOU GUYS!!
repetitive story?its okay!
unbelievable price for just 10 hour gameplay experience?? to hell with it!
we cant afford to make advertisement because our budget is very very low so we cant afford it but we cant afford you guys making an free advertisement by making video of our games or making a fan translation
,why?? oh i dont know maybe because we fear the potential buyer will know tht our games is just another ripp-off of another rip-off of another ripp-off from the original ripp-off,same shit different story,
because we really hope you buy our 100$ games to play "spot the difference between our games with their games!!"the prize?? the prize you ask?? is a little pretty umbrella , a beautiful colorful plates,and of course our love to you guys!!
and with our so called deadlines we have a pretty much free times on our hands,not like we have a women in our lives except of course our mother,but our free time are not used for looking for another loser like us to making our games better,but instead we file a lawsuit for make a petty money,or rant on sankaku complex etc etc.
afterall we have many excuses but we don't have skill to makes our games better ,okay?

alidan

its okay if you don't agree,i understand too

in case you wondering I'm a high school student in holiday so you cant protest about me to buy a pirated games or downloaded it,because lets face it your game too sucks for me to buy it,and you cant protest about me ranting in sankaku complex i still have my youth you have your mom to suck on her blood!

right now videos are hard to take down of video games alone as there is no president and fair use.

once there is a president they can easily be taken down.

basically it ruins the community as a whole. if you still dont get it ill go into more detail.

There is no piracy for the PS3, so tell me...

How different are the PS3 games' prices from the 360's?

"Why the fuck should a company care what a loser who didn't pay for their creation think?"

If you don't care about people who don't pay, then why do you pay for protection mechanisms ? Aren't you a bit schyzophrenic ?

To Anon:23:18:

Quite different, actually, even if it does not look like it. Sure, the PS3 doesn't get many exclusives, but when a game is ported to the PS3, it usually costs the same as the 360 version at that time, but includes all the DLC to that date at no extra cost, meaning it is usually actually about 20$ cheaper. On top of that, the lack of monthly fees in internet service adds up: many people will buy one game a month, at the most, (on average over the year, maybe 3 in Dec but the summer droughts), so that works out to an additional 20$/month (here, at least), so a PS3 game is about 40$ cheaper than its 360 counterpart. So even with the more difficult to crack piracy protection, it is a FAR cry cheaper in the PS3.

Well, for someone without internet access, who does not care about extra content, they are the same price and the one just happens to be more "full", but most people, I'd say, who own an Xbox own Xbox live.

The PS3 is a sad compromise for game creators, because it's so much more difficult to make anything for it, but currently it allows for nearly pure sales since it, at least until recently, wasn't cracked.

The DLC being available on PS3 versions for free is a good example where there's much less risk of losing sales to pirates, so they don't have to place as much incentive into DLC stuff to get people to buy it legitimately on the pirated systems.

name the ps3 games with dlc inside them, and tell me how long you had to wait for them?

little teams of people? bigger games, even wii games have 300+ and indi that are every bit as good have 20 or less.

big companies take less risk and ask for more money, not even just a bit, they act lime movies where they think every pirate would have payed for it.

and indi companies take more risk in games and ask for far fucking less.

indi has my respect and big companies can suck my dick

That black and white mentality is why this shit keeps happening. Pirates have these blanket statements that nicely shelve anything larger than a garage of people into these evil corporations. The big companies are the reason games are made, because they give the funds to keep teams afloat. The problem is they also are their own self-destructive problem because they have to dish out more money than games have ever done in history, and few of them ever really make bank.

The blanket statement that not every sale translates is true, but you forgot that sales would have gone up 20-30% in most cases if they hadn't the choice to steal the crap.

I forget the name of the game that sold a million copies, and had the same amount pirated. That was a good game, no question. At least 25% of those people would have purchased it eventually, when the price dropped a bit or when they had waited a couple weeks for another paycheck. There is no good logic behind that the pirates not being able to steal it WOULDN'T increase sales, because they wouldn't have stolen it if they didn't want it.

actually look at movies, i have said this before.

movie studios claim, lets go with this one realy shitty movie i forgot its name, where 83000 people watched it, they claim they lost 83000 sales and over a million $ form that. but in reality only a fraction of those people would have every payed to see it.

a comedian i like said it best.

people will watch crap if its free.

But that fraction would still have paid money. That's what TV premieres are for so people can see shit for free. If you truly weren't that interested, you wouldn't care to wait to see it. That's the whole point. Those 83000 people wouldn't all have seen it, but I can guarantee you 20000 of them were curious enough to pay money in some form to watch it if they weren't thieves. Even if they waited for Netflix. Only people who don't understand the statistics of just what people will be willing to pay for would claim such things.

The movie claiming that all of them would have gone is completely inauthentic, and they propagandized it to prove their point, but still, they are in fact correct that they lost quite a chunk of money from the people who would have seen it out of curiosity.