Two top visual novel publishers have threatened anyone who posts gameplay videos of their games with legal action, claiming it is copyright infringement and akin to piracy.

Makers Visual Arts (having just released popular lolicon title Kudo Wafter) and Aquaplus (White Album) are warning players that uploading videos of their games to sites like NicoNico Douga constitutes copyright infringement and that they face years in jail and huge fines for unauthorised distribution if they disobey company demands that they cease uploading.

A number of other game publishers have in recent months been grumbling of people redistributing footage of their games, and the problem is felt to be particularly acute for visual novel publishers – these titles are games in name only and a video essentially duplicates the entirety of the “play” experience, removing, it is argued, the need to actually buy the game as surely as if the game itself had been offered up for download.

The eroge industry in particular is especially sensitive here, as it is apparently already suffering massive piracy rates, although many of the complaints in this instance actually came from annoyed players reporting videos posted to NicoNico Douga.

On the other hand, allowing copyright holders to claim copyright violation over mere images of their games sets a rather dangerous precedent – critical videos and images of their products could become the grounds for suppression and even legal action designed to quash damaging information about games, such as bugs or inferior gameplay.

This may not be a problem in places with robust “fair use” legal doctrines like the US, but although Japan has similar statutes apparently no court has ever actually accepted a fair use plea, which when coupled with the spineless tendency of most Japanese to roll over for any institution suggests potential for abuse is rife.

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    Comment by Anonymous
    03:02 04/07/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    A big warm "Fuck you" to all those idiots. If I wanna show off my playing session it's up to me.

    Comment by Anonymous
    05:30 05/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    agreed but fuck them is equal as giving them pleasure
    RAPE them CHOP them KILL them COOK them and at last FEED them to their families
    by the way we talking bout publisher right not the developer?

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:58 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    Game companies will just write into the EULA, "thou shalt not post videos of our product".

    It has the same intent and effect of major software products whose EULAs state (essentially) "thou shalt not post benchmarks of our product without our permission".

    No company likes reviews showing their product is bad.

    Avatar of kumesana
    Comment by kumesana
    20:17 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Yes, but, irrelevant.

    Comment by Dark Mage
    11:54 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    They should not have a case as in most countries posting a video of a game is fair use.
    To rule in favor of the company's favor in this case would be very bad for Japan's image.
    Any judge who cares about what the rest of the world thinks of the Japanese government should throwout any case that considers a video walk through piracy.

    Sounds like the company wishes to commit suicide.
    I don't know about Japan but in the US this type of thing causes people who normally would not pirate to do so simply out of spite or outright boycott a product.

    Avatar of kumesana
    Comment by kumesana
    20:44 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    > They should not have a case as in most countries posting a video of a game is fair use.

    Hum. Is it really considered fair use, or just not fought out of lack of being a problem to anyone?

    If it *is* really considered fair use, that might have to do with the fact that differences exist between a game and a movie of same game played. This fact vanishes when dealing with visual novels.

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:23 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    Its suffering high piracy rates because nobody wants to pay a hundred bucks for a piece of shit game that's a quarter of the length of an old school Hentai game.

    Avatar of Elle Lowel
    Comment by Elle Lowel
    06:29 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    You know it's bad enough we BUY these damned things, instead of pirating them, or after we pirate them to honor the companies. But we can't share our experience or make video tributes to the games we love.


    I am just about to lose my respect for these Japanese game and manga publishers who really wish to step out of their bounds and attack those who enjoy their work. They should sit down and revel in the fact their products got so much publicity thans to these videos and yes, these pirates who distribute them. Cause if it weren't for that. We wouldn't even know these damned games really existed.

    Avatar of Morthoseth
    Comment by Morthoseth
    22:29 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    Dear publishers, FUCK YOU!

    Comment by Anonymous
    02:17 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    haha! i found a pirate! ^

    Avatar of kumesana
    Comment by kumesana
    20:25 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    How do they DARE opposing the easiness of enjoying their games without paying for it?

    Comment by Anonymous
    05:29 06/07/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    They just need to realize those who arn't going to buy the game arn't going to buy the game.

    Comment by Anonymous
    03:54 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    gamer to publisher, fuck you!

    Avatar of kumesana
    Comment by kumesana
    20:20 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Hum, yeah? Aside from the ones already fucking the publishers (and creators along) by enjoying games but not paying for it, who is this a problem to?

    Comment by Anonymous
    00:32 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    I remember when Square-Enix complained about video on youtube with FF XIII intro. Google run away with theirs tails between theirs legs, and removed the first 30 minutes of gameplay from youtube.

    So it's more about what players can stomach, and how much they will allow being screwed up, than about piracy or whatever. Companies who would try to screw users because laws permits it (according to theirs point of view) will not disappear.

    Comment by Anonymous
    01:57 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    While this IS an understandable and/or valid claim, this could be a precedent for similar actions against games from other genres. This is a bad thing. Will the day come when Capcom starts threatening to sue people posting Monster Hunter gameplay videos?

    Comment by Anonymous
    11:20 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    That's nothing. Nintendo sues and shuts down gaming sites for posting Pokemon strategies.

    Don't mess with Nintendo.

    Avatar of Dia
    Comment by Dia
    21:41 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Can't help but to agree with the publishers. It is akin to piracy.

    Even if some videos end up being removed because of this, I'm sure niconico and the courts in Japan will be reasonable and allow short clips that don't show everything...right?

    There are some people even playing Visual Novels on streaming services like ustream. I don't know what about that disturbed me the most; the commentary, the fact that such a stream existed or that ustream recommended the stream to me.

    Comment by Anonymous
    21:21 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    lol do you need gameplay video for eroge point and click?

    Avatar of kaimax
    Comment by kaimax
    00:21 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    maybe Artefact should used "gameplay" as the keyword, but more to the whole process and story of the game.

    Avatar of Sukunai
    Comment by Sukunai
    20:45 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    I can see objecting to a video of the entire visual novel, that IS piracy after all.
    But there ARE limits to the objections.
    I've so totally enjoyed my defacto concert footage of Hatsune Miku's Giving Day Concert I can't wait for Sept 1st. I'm getting that on blueray solely on the power of Youtube and the internet. Chances of me buying it without the internet were originally zero. Hear that Sega? They were zero in the beginning. I wonder how many sales you killed from killing the Youtube uploads. What? you think real fans consider watching fucking lousy YouTube uploads is good enough?
    Anyone settling for Youtube, was never a lost sale at all. They never gave a fuck to begin with.
    And it's the same with games. I have a friend, he always buys the games he likes, even though he's more than happy to download games that are more meh than anything else. The same with me. I have a Nintendo DS XL, and I buy the games I like. The rest are not lost sales, I never really wanted them in the first place. If it came down to buy or never play, hell I can live with never playing the schlock eh.
    It's about time the retards wrapped their brains around the truth, the internet allows us to sate our curiosity about mostly schlock, and permit us to avoid buying shovelware. Not ALL games turn out to be garbage, but when you are facing a 9 out of 10 ratio, fucking right I'd rather miss an occasional gem.
    In about 10 years on the net, I might have encountered 3 gems I never saw coming from all methods of playing games.

    Avatar of psycholoner
    Comment by psycholoner
    16:52 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Well, its true that having complete vids of the game takes away the purpose of actually buying the game, but I just think they're being too sensitive and looking for a place to put the blame on for declining sales.

    I'm not on nicovideo enough to get support for this, but really. Maybe a user uploads around an hour or 2 of gameplay on to the site. But VNs are often MASSIVE. If were talking about a multi heroine VN, you probably won't make it through a single route in that time.

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:53 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    I think in the case of visual novels they do have a point, watching a video of the game is sort of already like playing the game itself, unlike regular video games.


    Avatar of kaimax
    Comment by kaimax
    16:58 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    it's not bad to look objectively sometimes, man. :D

    Avatar of Keeper
    Comment by Keeper
    16:47 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Uhm... lol.
    That's the first time I've heard a company say, "if you advertise for us (for free), we're gonna have you arrested!"
    Death to commercialism! (and apparently that company)

    Avatar of kaimax
    Comment by kaimax
    16:49 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    When did story leaking "translates" into advertising?

    Remember Guys this is not your AVERAGE console games we're talking about here.

    Comment by Anonymous
    23:50 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Because it's the MAIN SELLING POINT of the game ! The only others are CG and scenes for eroge.
    So when you buy such a game, you're interested by the story, and not only the background, or the backstory, the real story !
    So showing parts of the story IS the only "real" kind of ADVERTISEMENT.

    Avatar of kaimax
    Comment by kaimax
    00:19 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Well, if that advertisement was made into a trailer that only shows some of the main aspects.

    not as a whole gameplay videos.

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:53 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Its a Hentai game which makes it better

    Avatar of GHS
    Comment by GHS
    17:39 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Heh, think stopping the internet is impossible? The US government actually has a bill that will allow the president to stop the internet in an emergency. I doubt it will pass but we'll see.

    Avatar of alidan
    Comment by alidan
    19:05 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    the pirate internet will than open

    you will see wi fi hotspots hosting servers, in metropolitan areas, it will be a gimp internet but it will still be there.

    Comment by Anonymous
    19:55 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    The internet doesn't work that way, and I think that bill was for private and government networks.

    Avatar of PrinceHeir
    Comment by PrinceHeir
    17:43 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    lol wtf there not even making money in posting those videos, guess money talks

    Avatar of Kyorisu
    Comment by Kyorisu
    17:35 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Oh please anyone willing to go to the effort to find and watch a video of a visual novel was never going to buy your game. They are simply too cheap and your games too expensive.

    Avatar of kumesana
    Comment by kumesana
    19:29 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    I'd wager finding the video is way easier than finding the official game & patches to make it run on a nonjapanese windows.

    Comment by Anonymous
    17:11 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    I won't be surprised if Square-Enix and Konami do the same crap. Well, playing Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid games is basically watching a (very long) movie anyway.

    Avatar of SnooSnoo
    Comment by SnooSnoo
    18:49 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Now I won't say anything about Final Fantasy, because haters will come hating on FFXIII again. But Metal Gear series likened to a movie? What have you been smoking?

    Avatar of alidan
    Comment by alidan
    19:03 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    have you played metal gear?

    it is basically 3 movies tied together in an action stealth game.

    not saying iots bad, but saying its not like a movie?

    Avatar of alidan
    Comment by alidan
    06:20 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    from the origional to the newest, has tried to be a movie with action elements.

    play mgs1,2,3and4 and time the cutsceens and gameplay.

    if you speed run there is more cutsceen than game, if you play normally they are about equal, if you suck there is more game than cutsceen, and we are going to disregard the end from 3 which can take 45 minutes to beat. that is an anomaly.

    if you go for 100% you can have far more gameplay but a normal person will just have a good game with shit ton of cutscenes.

    Avatar of SnooSnoo
    Comment by SnooSnoo
    19:17 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    You must have never tried torturing the enemy guards before. It's a lot different from watching.
    Oh and >> have you played metal gear?

    Yeah MGS2, 3 and 4.

    Avatar of xHadriel
    Comment by xHadriel
    16:44 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    I can just see the headlines now: "Man jailed for 5 years, fined $80,000 for posting Eroge Opening on Youtube"

    Avatar of kaimax
    Comment by kaimax
    16:47 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Two top visual novel publishers have threatened anyone who posts GAMEPLAY VIDEOS of their games with legal action, claiming it is copyright infringement and akin to piracy.

    Comment by Anonymous
    23:46 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Well, that's the problem. GAMEPLAY isn't a legal word and don't really define the violation. There's no quantification.
    So if you put 30 seconds of gameplay, without even showing choices or anything, you could still be fined and put to jail.

    Avatar of xHadriel
    Comment by xHadriel
    16:55 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Oh, my bad then.

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:39 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Don't make videos of the games. It's that simple

    Sent from my iPhone

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:04 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    In this instance I can see where the demand makes sense - Visual Novels could be watched instead of played and have roughly the same experience either way.

    The issue at hand is that they could then take this, like the Ubisoft Splinter Cell: Conviction debacle a few months back, and try to ban any kind of gameplay video with this as a precedent.

    Youtube is already having issues with this; between bogus copyright claims, dumb copyright claims, and the infamous WMG baloney (I wish those assholes would post a fucking list of what they actually own), it's a lot less YOUtube and a lot more CorporateFuckYouTube. If this sort of thing with gameplay video banning spreads to Youtube as a whole, there goes the majority of the site's users.

    Comment by Anonymous
    18:04 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Well, let's face it, they're right. There has to be a distinction between a gameplay video showing your awesome run in a car game to show off to others, and basically making a movie of a game. There are sites that have entire RPGs as movies out there, but you lose the entire gameplay experience from it, which 99% of the people want anyway, so it's a gray area.

    In Visual Novel's cases, it really is basically like pirating anime in the same vein.

    These things can get ridiculous, but then I see all these motherfuckers on here thinking piracy is their right simply because the internet exist, and suddenly I want to see you fuckers in jail. Support the damn companies if you like the games. Visual novels for us of course have a much wider gray area, but we are the ones who are killing our own industry.

    You cannot complain about games rehashing the same shit anymore. They do that because they are desperate for sales, because they have no choice besides accepting that their stuff will be pirated, and thus can't take as many risks, hence, less original IP. You fuckers have got to STOP PRETENDING you can get something for nothing. It is not and never will be how the world works. Ramifications will happen. Awesome companies will die and will be all our fault.

    Avatar of alidan
    Comment by alidan
    18:51 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    ok FIRST AND FORMOST i must give out some facts.

    visual novels in japan cost obscene prices for what you get. think upwards 120-200$ for a non limited edition of some games. rarely are they worth that price, but they have something interesting in them you want to see. its not like with a console game where you can rent them. you either have to watch a video, read a walk though, or pirate the game.

    because watching it is generally easier than the walk through...

    and games not being origional? FUCK YOU. you know SHIT ABOUT GAMES.

    the general idea is that 25-75% of pc gamers are pirates, it depends on the source.

    the fact is that most pirates wouldn't buy it to begin with so real lose of sales is far lower than what they claim.

    and than, game makers push games for 60$ and charge us dlc saying they have to because they need more money to make these games. ill put it this way, AAA games cost close to 50 million$. and lets face it when you are talking 50 mill, toy realy want to gamble or you want to go with whats proven?

    well look at what some indi and low budget games are doing now, they look as good as retail games and are being sold for sub 15$ and still pull a fucking profit. and they are original, and in many cases funner than allot of the big budget games.

    now people are calling big publishers bluffs that they need the extra money to make the games.

    "Awesome companies will die and will be all our fault."

    lets look at that one. how many companies do you know are tanking that made games but pirates ruined them? fucking name them.

    i can only think of one, and it died because the games didnt sell, clover

    tell me them...

    Comment by Anonymous
    03:38 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Can I just say, as the Anon who started this line...that I'm reaaaaaaaally happy that I got a full +1.0 rating? =D Never had that on any of my posts before, logged in or not (Xxccben logged in).

    Comment by Anonymous
    20:42 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    120-200? Are you an idiot? Top level VNs cost around $100 tops.

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:52 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    so tell me this then: why did you made game?
    to entertain people right?how the fuck we could be entertained by some half assed games that have every cliche in every corner on the games,and top of that its like 100$ per game are you fuckin kidding me??
    or the purpose is money?? money right??you tell me 100$ half assed game vs 0$ half assed game (downloaded) why you bother made it? if the purpose is money,nobody will fucking buy it,they rather learning how to pirate the fucking games!!
    i love pirates they made my day everday,you concerned about the company?? dont worry the big one wont die even their games was pirated,the small one will die but eventually they rise again somewhere even they not the same people like some fucking stupid ingrates that waited to be pirated and of course they will bluffing like will make you go to prison will trace the download site,HaH! internet never dies you fucking money minded asshole!!

    Avatar of kaimax
    Comment by kaimax
    23:46 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    GUYS!!! we're talking about VNs HERE, not shitty DLC, or worth or not worth.

    Please stay on topic.

    Comment by Anonymous
    05:08 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    @ Anon 22:52

    Of course we do it because we love it. Where does it say that we cannot make a game for our love of it, to grant enjoyment to people, and get compensation for our livelihood and survival? We provide a service to people, and we expect a paycheck and compensation. The only time things that are free in life are because of charity or thievery, and I didn't do this for the homeless.

    It's the same thing as walking into a restaurant and saying you want a steak. They go and make a steak for you and it's a decent steak, but not the best you've ever had, so you don't pay at all. It makes no sense unless you are just a pure asshole. Pirates somehow think that if the game hasn't done some kind of life-altering magical experience for them that it's not worth anything. That's the spoiled brat logic, and is in every sense of the word, wrong. If you are the type who can't sense when a game is good or bad, that's where reviews come in. I can tell by the cover of a game if I will enjoy it or not, and with only a few exceptions, I have never been let down.

    My compromise would be to have more demos available for games in the industry so that people can get a feel for them. That way the 'want to try it out' logic has been sated. But still people like you will somehow think "Why should I have to pay money for entertainment that isn't perfect" or some self-righteous bullshit like that.

    Comment by Anonymous
    04:04 05/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    07:56 04/07/2010
    so what you meaning to say is this:

    i love making game,i love you guys too,but sadly enough too say our games isn't that great its our best but of course our best is no good at all,but we still expect you buy our games why? because of course WE LOVE YOU GUYS!!
    repetitive story?its okay!
    unbelievable price for just 10 hour gameplay experience?? to hell with it!
    we cant afford to make advertisement because our budget is very very low so we cant afford it but we cant afford you guys making an free advertisement by making video of our games or making a fan translation
    ,why?? oh i dont know maybe because we fear the potential buyer will know tht our games is just another ripp-off of another rip-off of another ripp-off from the original ripp-off,same shit different story,
    because we really hope you buy our 100$ games to play "spot the difference between our games with their games!!"the prize?? the prize you ask?? is a little pretty umbrella , a beautiful colorful plates,and of course our love to you guys!!
    and with our so called deadlines we have a pretty much free times on our hands,not like we have a women in our lives except of course our mother,but our free time are not used for looking for another loser like us to making our games better,but instead we file a lawsuit for make a petty money,or rant on sankaku complex etc etc.
    afterall we have many excuses but we don't have skill to makes our games better ,okay?


    its okay if you don't agree,i understand too

    in case you wondering I'm a high school student in holiday so you cant protest about me to buy a pirated games or downloaded it,because lets face it your game too sucks for me to buy it,and you cant protest about me ranting in sankaku complex i still have my youth you have your mom to suck on her blood!

    Comment by Anonymous
    07:56 04/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    The increase in price occured because of exactly what you said: the increase in cost for next gen games. And the preorder bonuses and DLC exist to give incentive, as I said, because so many pirates steal things, and DLC and preorder incentives make it so that you must take action and actual put money toward the game to acquire them. It also gives the companies MUCH NEEDED income over the months leading up to the game's release to assist in funding.

    For example, many startup companies are based on investment, as mine was. Investors think in a certain way, and it's the job of marketing to determine how best to get the most sales to the most people with their limited marketing budget. Much of that budget for the intelligent companies put that toward art books and unique items that actually have value to people and can be used practically so that people actually want it. Guys have use for posters and such of things they enjoy.

    And if you don't think companies need 400 people, I guess you don't mind waiting 6 years for anything then? They need the big teams because larger numbers will seem much less horrid to investors and publishers when they will be guaranteed a return in a shorter amount of time. The games industry evolves too fast graphically to sit on a project for years anymore.

    I was on a dev team of less than 50, and I worked for 12 hour days for three months straight to cover the amount I needed to do. The stress of the level of detail we needed to achieve to compete at all caused a lot of problems and killed our momentum. By the end we barely could handle the release and even then it had several issues. We worked our asses off, and if we'd had a bigger team, we could have hit every deadline with enough sleep and concentration to make a much better game. You cannot possibly fathom the amount of intensity is involved in modern video games unless you've actually worked for one.

    And also the key problem is so many spoiled gamers and asshole pirates somehow believe that if a game isn't perfect, it's shit and not worth money, but they still steal it and play it. And that is spoiled, and only a spoiled brat would say otherwise. It takes an incredible team with incredible communication and coordination, which is actually exceptionally rare (and requires years together), to make a truly great game without breaking the bank. But even then, there are only so many game genres and modes and possibilities out there, and they all must follow certain gameplay elements that people are used to. It's impossible not to be used to them, but then everyone judges everything based on everything else, and nothing ever gets seen for its own value. Every FPS is judged by the Halo crowd for consoles. I judge all FPSs against Deus Ex personally, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying them or being happy I supported them for giving me hours of play time.

    Avatar of alidan
    Comment by alidan
    06:07 03/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)


    i never said anything advocating piracy, i dont believe at least... i just said that the numbers they are quoteing are not a representation of what they lose in sales.

    its like the movie industry trying to claim that if people didn't download a movie they would have went to a theater or bought the dvd. thats bullshit.

    the number may say its been downloaded 100000 times, but that doesn't mean they would pay to see it.

    now here, get your fucking facts straight. pirating made the prices raise? no, see last gen developers made special editions of games, and made them cost 60$. somehow this was a test to see if people would pay for a 60$ game. i know its backwards logic, but i believe madden, halo 2, and i forget the other 2 were in on it. they bought the limited editions because of the extras and were willing to fork 10$ more for it. the test was settled as yes they are willing, and now next gen games cost more. ever sense than they have been trying to justify the price sense.

    dlc was created because some devs decided that a map pack or the like that use to be 100% free, just wasn't doing it for them any more. i believe the first dlc that i was aware of was for halo 2.

    while buying a map pack for an extremely popular game is ok and all, and i can even defend them as they did work and should be payed, but look at what most of these cocksucker charge for these. an expansion pack cost anywhere between 20-40$ always less than the original games price. modern warfare for example has charged 15-20$ i forget which, for 3 maps and most of them aren't even fucking new. dlc has been bastardized into something that cant be defended. look at disgaea, most if its dlc is on fucking disc. and for every bad there is a good, look at borderlands. they have 3 dlcs which if put into an expansion pack would be more than worth the extra 30$

    bottom line there is dlc is used to fuck consumers 90% of the time. o and let me ask, in modern warfare can you have fan created anything because of the server things pc side? i think i may know why they did that now.

    now i have to break down what you said.

    "It is the responsibility of BOTH sides equally. Publishers are dying."

    who fucking cares about publishers, i care about developers. publishers are unnecessary, and will only be around for so much longer.

    "There are no game jobs out there for me now because nobody is hiring, teams are getting laid off, entire centers are shutting down, because every company that doesn't have a blockbuster title is basically failing."

    actually, there are jobs for talent. teams are dieing mostly because they fail to make a great game, they dont need a block buster they just have to do the math of we have this many people and out game is a compilation of all the good games, i see no way for this to tank.

    if you dont have an original idea, than prefect the genre, and if you cant do that, dont have a massive dev team.

    i feal for them some times, but seriously make a competent game in a timely fashion and this shit wont happen

    "Part of that is of course the cost of the next gen titles, the rest is because there's no guarantee anymore any funding will return."

    let me point out some numbers here. epic micky, i believe, has a dev team of over 400 people. i cant name the games, but most indi games that made it to e3, have been in development for less than 2 year are as good as big publishers in terms of game play and graphics, but have a dev team or 20 or less. allot of well known teams have an obscene amount of people, and the more they have the less risk they will take, and the less risk the more stale, the more stale, the less profit, the less profit the more likely they are to tank.

    "That's why everyone's doing MMOs now, becuase it's the only thing that has a chance of a return for younger companies."

    that is bullshit and you know it. mmos fail horribly in making money, however they make enough to stay afloat for years most of the time.

    they want to emulate wow which pulls billions a year. which isnt fucking happening, at best they may pull a mill a month for smaller games. and with a large portion going to the server cost and paying staff, the over all profit is very little.

    and if all these smaller devs can think og is an mmo and te make more money, than FUCK THEM i hope they fail hard.

    if you go out with a plan to make a great mmo, and hope to keep it alive a long time than the best of wishes but emulate wow and make paper can all die in fire as far as im concerend.

    "You can probably mention about half a dozen smaller 'apps' that are cash cows, the rest they are frantically creating content for new apps because their profits won't last them a few months."

    apps aren't fucking games. they are money sinks that are almost a guaranteed 5000$ for very little work in what could be done in a week in flash if the people know it good enough. there are a few apps that are games, but hell no, i talk about psn games or arcade games, or even wiiware when i say indi developers.

    "You think companies advertise their desperation? You have no idea."

    no but they also dont tell us how much they shit away unnecessary expenses, like keeping a massive 300+ dev team afloat. for a large game with massive art, i get that you need that much, but not for a fucking wii game like epic micky.


    if you are lucky to get your hands on it day one, as in you caped out and got first in line. however big name games will get put in stores kind of like gamestop, except they ask for way more than the games initial worth. i know there was a time when tsukhime (spelt that wrong) costed 200$ minimum.

    see games over there, especially the vn like games, work FER differently than games are over here.


    your comment was backwards but i get what you mean, ill try to translate.

    the big will live regardless, the little will die but its there own fault for cashing in.

    i dont agree but i understand your point.

    Comment by Anonymous
    19:38 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    First of all, I work in games. So don't pretend I know shit about them. It's you who parrot the same bullshit all pirates pretend makes it their right to pirate the games we make. What you don't even factor into anything is the fact that spoiled brats think of piracy as their right because of the lamebrain justification you just rattled off. Same shit, different day. All of it is in reaction to piracy.

    What is happening is a spiraling downward of one screwing over the other. Pirates started downloading games, so they started raising the prices, raising the prices caused more piracy, the market got flooded with games so more piracy occured and therefore reduced sales even more under the guise of 'trying it out.' The market flooding assisted the transition, but it killed itself within two or three years, but the damage had been done. And it wasn't just the flood. People gaining access to things didn't stop the nobility. In the earlier days of the net, when the fansub creedo still held honor, the 'purchase the release in America for support' aspect, we of the older gamer generation may have downloaded one or two, but still bought our games. I've never pirated a game that I hadn't purchased.

    DLC was created because it was something that was necessary. If someone loved a game and wanted to feel like it was complete, they had to buy it to get the DLC. It was incentive. Unfortunately, it became something of a cash cow mentality. It started as a 'gift' for preordering and still continues like that in many ways, but expanded to the current whoring of DLC.

    It is the responsibility of BOTH sides equally. Publishers are dying. There are no game jobs out there for me now because nobody is hiring, teams are getting laid off, entire centers are shutting down, because every company that doesn't have a blockbuster title is basically failing. Part of that is of course the cost of the next gen titles, the rest is because there's no guarantee anymore any funding will return. That's why everyone's doing MMOs now, becuase it's the only thing that has a chance of a return for younger companies. You can probably mention about half a dozen smaller 'apps' that are cash cows, the rest they are frantically creating content for new apps because their profits won't last them a few months.

    You think companies advertise their desperation? You have no idea.

    Comment by Anonymous
    18:19 02/07/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Blame the piracy for all evils in the world! The new black!!

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