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Publishers: “Making Videos of Our Games is Piracy”

kudo-wafter

Two top visual novel publishers have threatened anyone who posts gameplay videos of their games with legal action, claiming it is copyright infringement and akin to piracy.

Makers Visual Arts (having just released popular lolicon title Kudo Wafter) and Aquaplus (White Album) are warning players that uploading videos of their games to sites like NicoNico Douga constitutes copyright infringement and that they face years in jail and huge fines for unauthorised distribution if they disobey company demands that they cease uploading.

A number of other game publishers have in recent months been grumbling of people redistributing footage of their games, and the problem is felt to be particularly acute for visual novel publishers – these titles are games in name only and a video essentially duplicates the entirety of the “play” experience, removing, it is argued, the need to actually buy the game as surely as if the game itself had been offered up for download.

The eroge industry in particular is especially sensitive here, as it is apparently already suffering massive piracy rates, although many of the complaints in this instance actually came from annoyed players reporting videos posted to NicoNico Douga.

On the other hand, allowing copyright holders to claim copyright violation over mere images of their games sets a rather dangerous precedent – critical videos and images of their products could become the grounds for suppression and even legal action designed to quash damaging information about games, such as bugs or inferior gameplay.

This may not be a problem in places with robust “fair use” legal doctrines like the US, but although Japan has similar statutes apparently no court has ever actually accepted a fair use plea, which when coupled with the spineless tendency of most Japanese to roll over for any institution suggests potential for abuse is rife.

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149 Comments

    • Anonymous says:

      agreed but fuck them is equal as giving them pleasure
      RAPE them CHOP them KILL them COOK them and at last FEED them to their families
      by the way we talking bout publisher right not the developer?

  • They should not have a case as in most countries posting a video of a game is fair use.
    To rule in favor of the company’s favor in this case would be very bad for Japan’s image.
    Any judge who cares about what the rest of the world thinks of the Japanese government should throwout any case that considers a video walk through piracy.

    Sounds like the company wishes to commit suicide.
    I don’t know about Japan but in the US this type of thing causes people who normally would not pirate to do so simply out of spite or outright boycott a product.

    • > They should not have a case as in most countries posting a video of a game is fair use.

      Hum. Is it really considered fair use, or just not fought out of lack of being a problem to anyone?

      If it *is* really considered fair use, that might have to do with the fact that differences exist between a game and a movie of same game played. This fact vanishes when dealing with visual novels.

  • Elle Lowel says:

    You know it’s bad enough we BUY these damned things, instead of pirating them, or after we pirate them to honor the companies. But we can’t share our experience or make video tributes to the games we love.

    *sigh*

    I am just about to lose my respect for these Japanese game and manga publishers who really wish to step out of their bounds and attack those who enjoy their work. They should sit down and revel in the fact their products got so much publicity thans to these videos and yes, these pirates who distribute them. Cause if it weren’t for that. We wouldn’t even know these damned games really existed.

  • Anonymous says:

    While this IS an understandable and/or valid claim, this could be a precedent for similar actions against games from other genres. This is a bad thing. Will the day come when Capcom starts threatening to sue people posting Monster Hunter gameplay videos?

  • Anonymous says:

    Game companies will just write into the EULA, “thou shalt not post videos of our product”.

    It has the same intent and effect of major software products whose EULAs state (essentially) “thou shalt not post benchmarks of our product without our permission”.

    No company likes reviews showing their product is bad.

  • Anonymous says:

    I remember when Square-Enix complained about video on youtube with FF XIII intro. Google run away with theirs tails between theirs legs, and removed the first 30 minutes of gameplay from youtube.

    So it’s more about what players can stomach, and how much they will allow being screwed up, than about piracy or whatever. Companies who would try to screw users because laws permits it (according to theirs point of view) will not disappear.

  • Can’t help but to agree with the publishers. It is akin to piracy.

    Even if some videos end up being removed because of this, I’m sure niconico and the courts in Japan will be reasonable and allow short clips that don’t show everything…right?

    There are some people even playing Visual Novels on streaming services like ustream. I don’t know what about that disturbed me the most; the commentary, the fact that such a stream existed or that ustream recommended the stream to me.

  • I can see objecting to a video of the entire visual novel, that IS piracy after all.
    But there ARE limits to the objections.
    I've so totally enjoyed my defacto concert footage of Hatsune Miku's Giving Day Concert I can't wait for Sept 1st. I'm getting that on blueray solely on the power of Youtube and the internet. Chances of me buying it without the internet were originally zero. Hear that Sega? They were zero in the beginning. I wonder how many sales you killed from killing the Youtube uploads. What? you think real fans consider watching fucking lousy YouTube uploads is good enough?
    Anyone settling for Youtube, was never a lost sale at all. They never gave a fuck to begin with.
    And it's the same with games. I have a friend, he always buys the games he likes, even though he's more than happy to download games that are more meh than anything else. The same with me. I have a Nintendo DS XL, and I buy the games I like. The rest are not lost sales, I never really wanted them in the first place. If it came down to buy or never play, hell I can live with never playing the schlock eh.
    It's about time the retards wrapped their brains around the truth, the internet allows us to sate our curiosity about mostly schlock, and permit us to avoid buying shovelware. Not ALL games turn out to be garbage, but when you are facing a 9 out of 10 ratio, fucking right I'd rather miss an occasional gem.
    In about 10 years on the net, I might have encountered 3 gems I never saw coming from all methods of playing games.

    • Actually a complete video is damn lame to give exposure. It’s only useful if you want to check your computer displays the game start as expected, or if you want to play the game without bothering with installing it.

  • Dirty_Dingus008 says:

    To all the Japanese English reading public of this site: Just don’t buy their “games” to see them squeal into bankruptcy~

    Maybe the rest of the makers of porn might get the fricking hint to Not piss on the buyers then

    • That’s stupid:
      – Why would anybody want to kill the makers of something they love?
      – Why would someone buy a visual novel if they want the existence of free complete start-to-end videos of them?

  • Klingengeist says:

    Good thing i hate visual novels and REAL game devolpers dont do shit like this.

    Of cause i can understand them a bit. Who needs to buy their VNs if they already watched every scene in vids. There isnt actual gameplay…

  • Barbarian of Gor says:

    Of the games I bought in recent years, yes with real money, I watched online gameplay footage on YouTube of them first.

    If someone doesn’t like people putting footage online, there must be something wrong with the game. I do not like being a “Sucker” for music, movies, games.

  • It’s free advertising for them, whats wrong with that?

    Do they lack so much content that showing few game footages shows the whole game…?

    or if the game is walktrough you dont have to buy it because you already “played it” by watching the walktrough video…?

  • Uhhg, more stupid anti-piracy bullshit… I guess i can see it somewhat because its visual novels…posting vids of that on sites like youtube pretty much destroys any need to buy it as you’ve basically given the whole game to everyone for free. The only thing you’re missing is the almost non-existant interaction of choosing either choice a,b, or c.

    Letting this go on could set a very dangerous precedent though, so i hope someone calls shennanigens and ends this crap already. Its not like you can stop piracy anyway, as long as money exists someone will find your product for free anyway. Why fight the impossible?

    • In all fairness, fighting the existence of these videos can never lead to victory, but has good chances to lead to less-easy-to-find videos.
      It has good chances to backfire and to have no effect at all, too.

  • Anonymous says:

    Okay, The war against anime fansubs, I can understand.
    The war against manga scanlations, This too I can understand.

    End of the day no matter what justification we use, it IS illegal.

    But this? this is just retarded. If I watch over my friends shoulder while he plays the game I’m AIDING PIRACY AM I!? no. I’m watching someone play a goddamned game.

    God forbid…

    These guys just need to shut the fuck up already, Im worried their stupidity is contaigous.

    • Uploaded stuff man, not you watching your friend playing, since he got a copy (whether legal or not)

      it’s the uploaded video ones that is the main problem. That can be seen by thousand of people at the same time.

      about your example:
      Logically speaking, you don’t even have the right to see your friend playing without his permission, because he’s the one who bought the story to read.

        • with a vn bugs are rare, but they mostly exist in flag, where you wont get credit for what you do. its not uncommon, especially when you talk of lesser companies.

          a game breaking bug would be one that you replicate time after time. with a normal one you can forgive it but a game breaking you cant.

          now point by point

          – bad cg images (you can already check them in their website, both companies have a great CG team that made them one of the oldest and richest VN companies)

          does not matter in this point of discussion what company it is. iv looked at allot of vns, especially the and and i find most of them barely above par.

          now look at what 2ch does, they rip games apart and find the images they are based off of. its naive to think that every piece of art came from imaginations and not a picture. granted most of the time the picture isn’t copied object by object, but its still something a game company wouldn’t want leaking, and if these things are youtubed (im saying youtubed because you basically know what i mean) than a wider audience that may not have even bought the game can find the differences.

          – poor quality control (elaborate please)

          this one i will say is harder for me to explain, especially in a vn sense. you have all played a normal game, that in screenshots, and in official videos looked fucking amassing, but than when you get home and put 5 hours into it you realize that its realy lacking something, but you just cant pout your finger on it.

          what gives you this feeling is different for different people but yea, it can only be described ans a lack of quality or polish.

          – bugs that are game breaking (Bugs in a VN? are you kidding me? I played more than 300 Vns and never once did I find a bug)

          i went into this above, but i seriously doubt that you played 300, im assuming far less, but i wont go into that.

          before you can call a game bug free you need to 100% them. and anytime there is programing of any kind involved you can get bugs, so say its impossible for a game this simple is stupid.

          – a poor story (SUBJECTIVE)
          – average characters (SUBJECTIVE)
          – general lack of polish (SUBJECTIVE)
          – general lack of imagination (SUBJECTIVE)
          – cliches after cliches (SUBJECTIVE)

          imagination is the only subjective one there.

          a poor store will always be poor, average characters will always be average, lack of polish will alway be there and cliches will always be cliches.

          people who like the game regardless can admit those flaws, and like it anyway. but other people, would rather stay away from a game that costs 80+$ that is all about a story characters and imagination, that lacks all of those said things and falls back on cliches and average setting story and characters. some are ok with that but others cant justify it.

          see you have to start thinking of this as whats in the best interest for the company. because most game company, to my knowledge, all make there game sound and look like the second coming of christ, some one showing off gameplay that they don’t approve, as in the boring parts or the meet of the game, could relay make people think twice about getting said game.

          now because these games sell for what, 2-3 weeks before they die off, i think this is less to deal with the games being online and more to deal with people being able to see what the game realy is and not wanting that shown.

        • Anonymous says:

          not really bro,

          – bad cg images (you can already check them in their website, both companies have a great CG team that made them one of the oldest and richest VN companies)

          – poor quality control (elaborate please)

          – bugs that are game breaking (Bugs in a VN? are you kidding me? I played more than 300 Vns and never once did I find a bug)

          – a poor story (SUBJECTIVE)
          – average characters (SUBJECTIVE)
          – general lack of polish (SUBJECTIVE)
          – general lack of imagination (SUBJECTIVE)
          – cliches after cliches (SUBJECTIVE)

          Like I said Vns are not the same as console games.

        • vn’s are claiming that seeing a video of there game online at all is copyright violation.

          and re read this article, to make sure i read it right. they never claim that full game play throughs are the cause for this, just videos in the games.

          a product you can show off, a service you cant.

          think of all the things a vn wouldn’t want to be known online within the first 2-3 weeks or release.

          – bad cg images
          – poor quality control
          – bugs that are game breaking
          – a poor story
          – average characters
          – general lack of polish
          – general lack of imagination
          – cliches after cliches

          by having this game seen as a product, they are unable to control the medium, and things like these can leaks without any way to stop or control it.

          but if its seen as a service, they can go after the videos and images openly and possibly sue people to make up for “lost profit”

          and a president like this, as i have said, effects all gameing

        • Hm. You’re mixing one thing and another, and overall I don’t feel it adds up well.

          Bottom line, you’re saying VN try to be sold as service, and back it up saying that one exists doing so. I’m sure it’s true, but no point taken. Kaimax claims VNs editors and other games editors don’t seem to share an agenda, and you fail to address this claim.

          I don’t have much knowledge of what VNs editors have in mind, but my general impression matches with Kaimax’ claim.

        • a product is something you own indefinably a service is something that can be taken away at any time for any reason.

          i dont keep up with vn’s, or its related genres but i believe there is at least one that had some internet interactivity.

          and im talking in general for all games because a legal president like this… guess what… EFFECTS ALL GAMES.

          a court is made up of people who interperate law. the law would be these videos of games are copyright.

          people like square who already go after people who talk about there games, and people who make bad games would use this to try to stop video of there games leaking and showing any part of the game off.

          im talking about the gaming industry as a whole trying to make gaming a service rather than a product, because this could potentially bring them a step closer to that.

          AND YES I KNOW real games are far different than VN’s but thats not how law sees it.

        • ubisoft for one, look at there drm.
          ea sports, look at there online and how they have made the gams for the past few gens, besides a graphics overhaul with new consoles, its mostly a roster change, but you pay basically an annual fee to play said game online.

          in general major developers are attempting to get you to think that these games are a service they provide and we have no rites to the game ourselves. right now its with online, where you cant play an older madden online after a newr one comes out.

          its basicly this way because of microsoft and the way that they handle online.

          i may not be 100% on this but you can play the console version of phantasy star on a private server now that the real servers are gone. but you cant do that on most game of today, at least console.

        • which game maker are we talking about here?

          How many times that I must remind people that VNs and console games are not the same.

          They cannot be compared, and they have different market strategies and targets.

          Tell me one VN company that makes games for service than a product?

  • Anonymous says:

    Maybe they should make games with I dunno, MOAR gameplay? So that people actually feel like playing instead of just watching some other dude play on nico nico douga. I’m not sure if I’m right with this assumption but I feel like the older games had better gameplay, or at least more interaction with the player. I’m not sure if you would call those games “visual novels” as well, or if those are what most people refer to as “dating games”/”galge”. For example: Old classics like Tokimeki Memorial Drama Vol 1: Nijiiro no Seishun (basically a more “adventure” like TokiMemo game), the Pia Carrot-series and Comic Party actually offers things for the “gamer” to do. Not only offering the usual “how will you respond”-type of question based gameplay but also letting the player choose where to go, who to talk to, what items to buy and the thrill of actually striving towards a goal.

    There is a quite important difference between playing a game and reading through a book with the occasional ability to choose path.

    /rant

    • like I said earlier, if they focus on gameplay, then it won’t be a visual novel anymore.

      example. Farland Symphony by TGS
      in a database site, it was once tagged as a VN that has SRPG elements, after a while, people agreed that it’s a SRPG with VN elements, so they removed it from the database.

      while the interaction part on the VNs, is now less, because people NOW like more VNs that really focuses on only story, without any overused character interaction.

      ex: Fate/stay, Clannad

      • Anonymous says:

        “like I said earlier, if they focus on gameplay, then it won’t be a visual novel anymore.”

        I don’t see the problem :p j/k
        I guess I’ll just shut up and go play my 90s games.
        In all honesty though, you bring up an interesting point. It can be quite hard to categorize some of these games, especially since so many games uses VN-style story telling. It’s an simple but effective way of portraying a situation, especially for older systems or those with lower performance.

        …I just wish gameplay would a comeback in todays market ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Heh, think stopping the internet is impossible? The US government actually has a bill that will allow the president to stop the internet in an emergency. I doubt it will pass but we’ll see.

        • from the origional to the newest, has tried to be a movie with action elements.

          play mgs1,2,3and4 and time the cutsceens and gameplay.

          if you speed run there is more cutsceen than game, if you play normally they are about equal, if you suck there is more game than cutsceen, and we are going to disregard the end from 3 which can take 45 minutes to beat. that is an anomaly.

          if you go for 100% you can have far more gameplay but a normal person will just have a good game with shit ton of cutscenes.

  • Anonymous says:

    I think in the case of visual novels they do have a point, watching a video of the game is sort of already like playing the game itself, unlike regular video games.

    OH WAIT THAT WOULD MEAN I’M AGREEING WITH A COPYRIGHTHOLDER WHAHAHAHAHA

  • psycholoner says:

    Well, its true that having complete vids of the game takes away the purpose of actually buying the game, but I just think they’re being too sensitive and looking for a place to put the blame on for declining sales.

    I’m not on nicovideo enough to get support for this, but really. Maybe a user uploads around an hour or 2 of gameplay on to the site. But VNs are often MASSIVE. If were talking about a multi heroine VN, you probably won’t make it through a single route in that time.

  • Uhm… lol.
    That’s the first time I’ve heard a company say, “if you advertise for us (for free), we’re gonna have you arrested!”
    Death to commercialism! (and apparently that company)

  • Anonymous says:

    Wow. These companies call the uploading of videos from their games yet they don’t do SHIT to stop people making deriative works (AKA Doujins) of their products.
    Please, make up your minds.

    • well, the doujin industry uses ORIGINAL stories, only with borrowed characters, and it’s been proven to affect sales positively. So, it’s basically helping.

      The problem is when the “MAIN original” story get’s recorded and uploaded. This is what the publishers are worried about. THEIR Story Being pirated in a video.

      • Anonymous says:

        Well yeah, you’re right, doujins is a reliable measuring stick to gauge a product’s popularity but legally, it’s still copyright infrigement (at least, according to japanese laws).
        Also, if this incident doesn’t make these visual novel people to innovate and re-examine the genre, nothing will.

        • Well, we’re talking about more purer Visual NOVELS, here.

          and both Companies stated, sells only on PURE story telling. That’s both they’re strong point.

          It won’t be a visual Novel anymore, if they added more gameplay to it.

  • Well, I can see why, since I actually watched “Resident Evil” for the gamecube rather than playing it myself. So, I was once a youtube pirate.

    But these won’t affect sales too much.

    Well, at least now the company most provide official gameplay samples and videos themselves.

  • visual novels are little more than text and… a choice or two?

    but given the options, watch it being plated or play it myself, id play it myself.

    where this is a problem is if people who make a shitty game, ban the spread of game play video. in japan square enux already does this kind of shit.

    the thing is you tube is just the easiest place. if i want i can go to torrents, and rapidshare like places.
    and if all else fails a p2p program irc or ftp.

    you cant hide it from me.
    all this is setting up for is just making there be more hoops for me to jump through.

  • Anonymous says:

    iv never watched a visual novel or played one but at the rate these acts piracy is going its only a matter of time before pirates start to lose respect for corporations completely. that and all youtube videos are about to be banned XD

      • Anonymous says:

        Why the fuck should a company care what a loser who didn’t pay for their creation think? You idiots think these are corporations? These are just small teams of men and women who are trying to make good stuff, sometimes they fail, sometimes they succeed, like any endeavor. But even the ones that are truly mindblowingly amazing are getting shafted. If piracy didn’t exist, these games would be at most half the price they are now, because yes, back in the day, when we wanted something, and didn’t have piracy to turn to, we worked extra for it. As kids we mowed lawns for a few bucks a pop for the games we wanted. I built a wall with neighbors to fund my ATI Rage Fury so I could play Everquest.

        I fucking hate what the internet has done to make everyone into spoiled fucking brats.

        • Anonymous says:

          But that fraction would still have paid money. That’s what TV premieres are for so people can see shit for free. If you truly weren’t that interested, you wouldn’t care to wait to see it. That’s the whole point. Those 83000 people wouldn’t all have seen it, but I can guarantee you 20000 of them were curious enough to pay money in some form to watch it if they weren’t thieves. Even if they waited for Netflix. Only people who don’t understand the statistics of just what people will be willing to pay for would claim such things.

          The movie claiming that all of them would have gone is completely inauthentic, and they propagandized it to prove their point, but still, they are in fact correct that they lost quite a chunk of money from the people who would have seen it out of curiosity.

        • actually look at movies, i have said this before.

          movie studios claim, lets go with this one realy shitty movie i forgot its name, where 83000 people watched it, they claim they lost 83000 sales and over a million $ form that. but in reality only a fraction of those people would have every payed to see it.

          a comedian i like said it best.

          people will watch crap if its free.

        • Anonymous says:

          That black and white mentality is why this shit keeps happening. Pirates have these blanket statements that nicely shelve anything larger than a garage of people into these evil corporations. The big companies are the reason games are made, because they give the funds to keep teams afloat. The problem is they also are their own self-destructive problem because they have to dish out more money than games have ever done in history, and few of them ever really make bank.

          The blanket statement that not every sale translates is true, but you forgot that sales would have gone up 20-30% in most cases if they hadn’t the choice to steal the crap.

          I forget the name of the game that sold a million copies, and had the same amount pirated. That was a good game, no question. At least 25% of those people would have purchased it eventually, when the price dropped a bit or when they had waited a couple weeks for another paycheck. There is no good logic behind that the pirates not being able to steal it WOULDN’T increase sales, because they wouldn’t have stolen it if they didn’t want it.

        • name the ps3 games with dlc inside them, and tell me how long you had to wait for them?

          little teams of people? bigger games, even wii games have 300+ and indi that are every bit as good have 20 or less.

          big companies take less risk and ask for more money, not even just a bit, they act lime movies where they think every pirate would have payed for it.

          and indi companies take more risk in games and ask for far fucking less.

          indi has my respect and big companies can suck my dick

        • Anonymous says:

          The PS3 is a sad compromise for game creators, because it’s so much more difficult to make anything for it, but currently it allows for nearly pure sales since it, at least until recently, wasn’t cracked.

          The DLC being available on PS3 versions for free is a good example where there’s much less risk of losing sales to pirates, so they don’t have to place as much incentive into DLC stuff to get people to buy it legitimately on the pirated systems.

        • Anonymous says:

          To Anon:23:18:

          Quite different, actually, even if it does not look like it. Sure, the PS3 doesn’t get many exclusives, but when a game is ported to the PS3, it usually costs the same as the 360 version at that time, but includes all the DLC to that date at no extra cost, meaning it is usually actually about 20$ cheaper. On top of that, the lack of monthly fees in internet service adds up: many people will buy one game a month, at the most, (on average over the year, maybe 3 in Dec but the summer droughts), so that works out to an additional 20$/month (here, at least), so a PS3 game is about 40$ cheaper than its 360 counterpart. So even with the more difficult to crack piracy protection, it is a FAR cry cheaper in the PS3.

          Well, for someone without internet access, who does not care about extra content, they are the same price and the one just happens to be more “full”, but most people, I’d say, who own an Xbox own Xbox live.

        • Anonymous says:

          “Why the fuck should a company care what a loser who didn’t pay for their creation think?”

          If you don’t care about people who don’t pay, then why do you pay for protection mechanisms ? Aren’t you a bit schyzophrenic ?

    • he is probably serious with his post, so i will be serious here to.

      its legal president, when you can say this game video is copyright material, and law approves, than by definition all game footage is copyrighted material.

      basically once this passes through, than it will make it extremely hard to do anything with video games because technically it will all be copyright material and will be copyright violations.

      when a new law or president is in place its applied in the most inappropriate way possible and this is a fact.

      • Anonymous says:

        No, all game footage does not become copyrighted “by definition” just because “law” approves in this case–whatever that means, because “law” is not a monolith, it is not homogeneous or even internally consistent.

        Certainly a decision on the copyright status of visual novels may influence decisions on the copyright status of other games. But for reasons Artefact pointed out, visual novels are very much distinguishable, and precedent (not ‘president’) on VNs is unlikely to bring about the jackbooted, industry-wide purge of review videos that Artefact fears. It’s also worth noting that there is no Supreme Court of The World, and thus any disposition on this issue will not bind U.S. courts, nor even be particularly persuasive.

      • Anonymous says:

        but what will it really change? no matter how illegal it is, people will still do it, and no matter how hard they try, they can’t catch ’em all (yes i did that just now). pirates will win by their sheer numbers. that is a fact, just ask the music industry.

        • right now videos are hard to take down of video games alone as there is no president and fair use.

          once there is a president they can easily be taken down.

          basically it ruins the community as a whole. if you still dont get it ill go into more detail.

  • Anonymous says:

    In this instance I can see where the demand makes sense – Visual Novels could be watched instead of played and have roughly the same experience either way.

    The issue at hand is that they could then take this, like the Ubisoft Splinter Cell: Conviction debacle a few months back, and try to ban any kind of gameplay video with this as a precedent.

    Youtube is already having issues with this; between bogus copyright claims, dumb copyright claims, and the infamous WMG baloney (I wish those assholes would post a fucking list of what they actually own), it’s a lot less YOUtube and a lot more CorporateFuckYouTube. If this sort of thing with gameplay video banning spreads to Youtube as a whole, there goes the majority of the site’s users.

    • Anonymous says:

      Well, let’s face it, they’re right. There has to be a distinction between a gameplay video showing your awesome run in a car game to show off to others, and basically making a movie of a game. There are sites that have entire RPGs as movies out there, but you lose the entire gameplay experience from it, which 99% of the people want anyway, so it’s a gray area.

      In Visual Novel’s cases, it really is basically like pirating anime in the same vein.

      These things can get ridiculous, but then I see all these motherfuckers on here thinking piracy is their right simply because the internet exist, and suddenly I want to see you fuckers in jail. Support the damn companies if you like the games. Visual novels for us of course have a much wider gray area, but we are the ones who are killing our own industry.

      You cannot complain about games rehashing the same shit anymore. They do that because they are desperate for sales, because they have no choice besides accepting that their stuff will be pirated, and thus can’t take as many risks, hence, less original IP. You fuckers have got to STOP PRETENDING you can get something for nothing. It is not and never will be how the world works. Ramifications will happen. Awesome companies will die and will be all our fault.

      • ok FIRST AND FORMOST i must give out some facts.

        visual novels in japan cost obscene prices for what you get. think upwards 120-200$ for a non limited edition of some games. rarely are they worth that price, but they have something interesting in them you want to see. its not like with a console game where you can rent them. you either have to watch a video, read a walk though, or pirate the game.

        because watching it is generally easier than the walk through…

        and games not being origional? FUCK YOU. you know SHIT ABOUT GAMES.

        the general idea is that 25-75% of pc gamers are pirates, it depends on the source.

        the fact is that most pirates wouldn’t buy it to begin with so real lose of sales is far lower than what they claim.

        and than, game makers push games for 60$ and charge us dlc saying they have to because they need more money to make these games. ill put it this way, AAA games cost close to 50 million$. and lets face it when you are talking 50 mill, toy realy want to gamble or you want to go with whats proven?

        well look at what some indi and low budget games are doing now, they look as good as retail games and are being sold for sub 15$ and still pull a fucking profit. and they are original, and in many cases funner than allot of the big budget games.

        now people are calling big publishers bluffs that they need the extra money to make the games.

        “Awesome companies will die and will be all our fault.”

        lets look at that one. how many companies do you know are tanking that made games but pirates ruined them? fucking name them.

        i can only think of one, and it died because the games didnt sell, clover

        tell me them…

        • Anonymous says:

          anon
          07:56 04/07/2010
          so what you meaning to say is this:

          i love making game,i love you guys too,but sadly enough too say our games isn’t that great its our best but of course our best is no good at all,but we still expect you buy our games why? because of course WE LOVE YOU GUYS!!
          repetitive story?its okay!
          unbelievable price for just 10 hour gameplay experience?? to hell with it!
          we cant afford to make advertisement because our budget is very very low so we cant afford it but we cant afford you guys making an free advertisement by making video of our games or making a fan translation
          ,why?? oh i dont know maybe because we fear the potential buyer will know tht our games is just another ripp-off of another rip-off of another ripp-off from the original ripp-off,same shit different story,
          because we really hope you buy our 100$ games to play “spot the difference between our games with their games!!”the prize?? the prize you ask?? is a little pretty umbrella , a beautiful colorful plates,and of course our love to you guys!!
          and with our so called deadlines we have a pretty much free times on our hands,not like we have a women in our lives except of course our mother,but our free time are not used for looking for another loser like us to making our games better,but instead we file a lawsuit for make a petty money,or rant on sankaku complex etc etc.
          afterall we have many excuses but we don’t have skill to makes our games better ,okay?

          alidan

          its okay if you don’t agree,i understand too

          in case you wondering I’m a high school student in holiday so you cant protest about me to buy a pirated games or downloaded it,because lets face it your game too sucks for me to buy it,and you cant protest about me ranting in sankaku complex i still have my youth you have your mom to suck on her blood!

        • Anonymous says:

          The increase in price occured because of exactly what you said: the increase in cost for next gen games. And the preorder bonuses and DLC exist to give incentive, as I said, because so many pirates steal things, and DLC and preorder incentives make it so that you must take action and actual put money toward the game to acquire them. It also gives the companies MUCH NEEDED income over the months leading up to the game’s release to assist in funding.

          For example, many startup companies are based on investment, as mine was. Investors think in a certain way, and it’s the job of marketing to determine how best to get the most sales to the most people with their limited marketing budget. Much of that budget for the intelligent companies put that toward art books and unique items that actually have value to people and can be used practically so that people actually want it. Guys have use for posters and such of things they enjoy.

          And if you don’t think companies need 400 people, I guess you don’t mind waiting 6 years for anything then? They need the big teams because larger numbers will seem much less horrid to investors and publishers when they will be guaranteed a return in a shorter amount of time. The games industry evolves too fast graphically to sit on a project for years anymore.

          I was on a dev team of less than 50, and I worked for 12 hour days for three months straight to cover the amount I needed to do. The stress of the level of detail we needed to achieve to compete at all caused a lot of problems and killed our momentum. By the end we barely could handle the release and even then it had several issues. We worked our asses off, and if we’d had a bigger team, we could have hit every deadline with enough sleep and concentration to make a much better game. You cannot possibly fathom the amount of intensity is involved in modern video games unless you’ve actually worked for one.

          And also the key problem is so many spoiled gamers and asshole pirates somehow believe that if a game isn’t perfect, it’s shit and not worth money, but they still steal it and play it. And that is spoiled, and only a spoiled brat would say otherwise. It takes an incredible team with incredible communication and coordination, which is actually exceptionally rare (and requires years together), to make a truly great game without breaking the bank. But even then, there are only so many game genres and modes and possibilities out there, and they all must follow certain gameplay elements that people are used to. It’s impossible not to be used to them, but then everyone judges everything based on everything else, and nothing ever gets seen for its own value. Every FPS is judged by the Halo crowd for consoles. I judge all FPSs against Deus Ex personally, but it doesn’t stop me from enjoying them or being happy I supported them for giving me hours of play time.

        • Anonymous
          19:38

          i never said anything advocating piracy, i dont believe at least… i just said that the numbers they are quoteing are not a representation of what they lose in sales.

          its like the movie industry trying to claim that if people didn’t download a movie they would have went to a theater or bought the dvd. thats bullshit.

          the number may say its been downloaded 100000 times, but that doesn’t mean they would pay to see it.

          now here, get your fucking facts straight. pirating made the prices raise? no, see last gen developers made special editions of games, and made them cost 60$. somehow this was a test to see if people would pay for a 60$ game. i know its backwards logic, but i believe madden, halo 2, and i forget the other 2 were in on it. they bought the limited editions because of the extras and were willing to fork 10$ more for it. the test was settled as yes they are willing, and now next gen games cost more. ever sense than they have been trying to justify the price sense.

          dlc was created because some devs decided that a map pack or the like that use to be 100% free, just wasn’t doing it for them any more. i believe the first dlc that i was aware of was for halo 2.

          while buying a map pack for an extremely popular game is ok and all, and i can even defend them as they did work and should be payed, but look at what most of these cocksucker charge for these. an expansion pack cost anywhere between 20-40$ always less than the original games price. modern warfare for example has charged 15-20$ i forget which, for 3 maps and most of them aren’t even fucking new. dlc has been bastardized into something that cant be defended. look at disgaea, most if its dlc is on fucking disc. and for every bad there is a good, look at borderlands. they have 3 dlcs which if put into an expansion pack would be more than worth the extra 30$

          bottom line there is dlc is used to fuck consumers 90% of the time. o and let me ask, in modern warfare can you have fan created anything because of the server things pc side? i think i may know why they did that now.

          now i have to break down what you said.

          “It is the responsibility of BOTH sides equally. Publishers are dying.”

          who fucking cares about publishers, i care about developers. publishers are unnecessary, and will only be around for so much longer.

          “There are no game jobs out there for me now because nobody is hiring, teams are getting laid off, entire centers are shutting down, because every company that doesn’t have a blockbuster title is basically failing.”

          actually, there are jobs for talent. teams are dieing mostly because they fail to make a great game, they dont need a block buster they just have to do the math of we have this many people and out game is a compilation of all the good games, i see no way for this to tank.

          if you dont have an original idea, than prefect the genre, and if you cant do that, dont have a massive dev team.

          i feal for them some times, but seriously make a competent game in a timely fashion and this shit wont happen

          “Part of that is of course the cost of the next gen titles, the rest is because there’s no guarantee anymore any funding will return.”

          let me point out some numbers here. epic micky, i believe, has a dev team of over 400 people. i cant name the games, but most indi games that made it to e3, have been in development for less than 2 year are as good as big publishers in terms of game play and graphics, but have a dev team or 20 or less. allot of well known teams have an obscene amount of people, and the more they have the less risk they will take, and the less risk the more stale, the more stale, the less profit, the less profit the more likely they are to tank.

          “That’s why everyone’s doing MMOs now, becuase it’s the only thing that has a chance of a return for younger companies.”

          that is bullshit and you know it. mmos fail horribly in making money, however they make enough to stay afloat for years most of the time.

          they want to emulate wow which pulls billions a year. which isnt fucking happening, at best they may pull a mill a month for smaller games. and with a large portion going to the server cost and paying staff, the over all profit is very little.

          and if all these smaller devs can think og is an mmo and te make more money, than FUCK THEM i hope they fail hard.

          if you go out with a plan to make a great mmo, and hope to keep it alive a long time than the best of wishes but emulate wow and make paper can all die in fire as far as im concerend.

          “You can probably mention about half a dozen smaller ‘apps’ that are cash cows, the rest they are frantically creating content for new apps because their profits won’t last them a few months.”

          apps aren’t fucking games. they are money sinks that are almost a guaranteed 5000$ for very little work in what could be done in a week in flash if the people know it good enough. there are a few apps that are games, but hell no, i talk about psn games or arcade games, or even wiiware when i say indi developers.

          “You think companies advertise their desperation? You have no idea.”

          no but they also dont tell us how much they shit away unnecessary expenses, like keeping a massive 300+ dev team afloat. for a large game with massive art, i get that you need that much, but not for a fucking wii game like epic micky.

          Anonymous
          20:42

          if you are lucky to get your hands on it day one, as in you caped out and got first in line. however big name games will get put in stores kind of like gamestop, except they ask for way more than the games initial worth. i know there was a time when tsukhime (spelt that wrong) costed 200$ minimum.

          see games over there, especially the vn like games, work FER differently than games are over here.

          Anonymous
          22:52

          your comment was backwards but i get what you mean, ill try to translate.

          the big will live regardless, the little will die but its there own fault for cashing in.

          i dont agree but i understand your point.

        • Anonymous says:

          @ Anon 22:52

          Of course we do it because we love it. Where does it say that we cannot make a game for our love of it, to grant enjoyment to people, and get compensation for our livelihood and survival? We provide a service to people, and we expect a paycheck and compensation. The only time things that are free in life are because of charity or thievery, and I didn’t do this for the homeless.

          It’s the same thing as walking into a restaurant and saying you want a steak. They go and make a steak for you and it’s a decent steak, but not the best you’ve ever had, so you don’t pay at all. It makes no sense unless you are just a pure asshole. Pirates somehow think that if the game hasn’t done some kind of life-altering magical experience for them that it’s not worth anything. That’s the spoiled brat logic, and is in every sense of the word, wrong. If you are the type who can’t sense when a game is good or bad, that’s where reviews come in. I can tell by the cover of a game if I will enjoy it or not, and with only a few exceptions, I have never been let down.

          My compromise would be to have more demos available for games in the industry so that people can get a feel for them. That way the ‘want to try it out’ logic has been sated. But still people like you will somehow think “Why should I have to pay money for entertainment that isn’t perfect” or some self-righteous bullshit like that.

        • Anonymous says:

          Can I just say, as the Anon who started this line…that I’m reaaaaaaaally happy that I got a full +1.0 rating? =D Never had that on any of my posts before, logged in or not (Xxccben logged in).

        • Anonymous says:

          so tell me this then: why did you made game?
          to entertain people right?how the fuck we could be entertained by some half assed games that have every cliche in every corner on the games,and top of that its like 100$ per game are you fuckin kidding me??
          or the purpose is money?? money right??you tell me 100$ half assed game vs 0$ half assed game (downloaded) why you bother made it? if the purpose is money,nobody will fucking buy it,they rather learning how to pirate the fucking games!!
          i love pirates they made my day everday,you concerned about the company?? dont worry the big one wont die even their games was pirated,the small one will die but eventually they rise again somewhere even they not the same people like some fucking stupid ingrates that waited to be pirated and of course they will bluffing like will make you go to prison will trace the download site,HaH! internet never dies you fucking money minded asshole!!

        • Anonymous says:

          First of all, I work in games. So don’t pretend I know shit about them. It’s you who parrot the same bullshit all pirates pretend makes it their right to pirate the games we make. What you don’t even factor into anything is the fact that spoiled brats think of piracy as their right because of the lamebrain justification you just rattled off. Same shit, different day. All of it is in reaction to piracy.

          What is happening is a spiraling downward of one screwing over the other. Pirates started downloading games, so they started raising the prices, raising the prices caused more piracy, the market got flooded with games so more piracy occured and therefore reduced sales even more under the guise of ‘trying it out.’ The market flooding assisted the transition, but it killed itself within two or three years, but the damage had been done. And it wasn’t just the flood. People gaining access to things didn’t stop the nobility. In the earlier days of the net, when the fansub creedo still held honor, the ‘purchase the release in America for support’ aspect, we of the older gamer generation may have downloaded one or two, but still bought our games. I’ve never pirated a game that I hadn’t purchased.

          DLC was created because it was something that was necessary. If someone loved a game and wanted to feel like it was complete, they had to buy it to get the DLC. It was incentive. Unfortunately, it became something of a cash cow mentality. It started as a ‘gift’ for preordering and still continues like that in many ways, but expanded to the current whoring of DLC.

          It is the responsibility of BOTH sides equally. Publishers are dying. There are no game jobs out there for me now because nobody is hiring, teams are getting laid off, entire centers are shutting down, because every company that doesn’t have a blockbuster title is basically failing. Part of that is of course the cost of the next gen titles, the rest is because there’s no guarantee anymore any funding will return. That’s why everyone’s doing MMOs now, becuase it’s the only thing that has a chance of a return for younger companies. You can probably mention about half a dozen smaller ‘apps’ that are cash cows, the rest they are frantically creating content for new apps because their profits won’t last them a few months.

          You think companies advertise their desperation? You have no idea.

  • Nike said: “Just do it”

    Cuz it doesn’t matter. These kinds of things just always end up being forgotten in the end.

    And I doubt they have the budget to file cases on each people who uploaded the videos. With so many people in the web, at least a hundred or two would do it. And it takes another budget and time to trace each uploader.

    PS: Torrents are also just a click away. People might even get the whole game itself from there. lol

  • master-evil says:

    Piracy, is impossible to destroy. It comes like murder,rape,stealing,etc it will ALWAYS happen the internet is so big no matter how many things you tear at more rise from the ashes. THE ONLY thing publishers and creators can do is create software (like stream) that could stop the loading of games and Visual novels but if then it only lowers pirates not stop them.

  • Anonymous says:

    It always is and was illegal to make videos or stream Games. Just because you buy the game doesn’t give you the right to stream it.

    And VN where you dont get to choose and basicly just get text with some nice graphics and sound i can understand that these videos hurt the sales.

    • > It always is and was illegal to make videos or stream Games. Just because you buy the game doesn’t give you the right to stream it.

      I don’t know whether the law reflects it everywhere, but the mere existence of a game or creation should give anyone the right to mention it with example. This means reasonably short extract that claims to illustrate the mention.

      ‘Making videos’ should not be illegal. What the editors are complaining about here, should be, and is, illegal.