“The JRPG is Dead: 5 Reasons Why”

final-fantasy-xiii-skyriders

An editorial opining that the JRPG is now a dead genre, and offering 5 reasons why this is the case, has recently been circulating, both in Japan and internationally, and is particularly topical in light of the ongoing controversy ensuing from Bioware’s stinging comments on the matter.

The writer puts it thus:

1. Dumb Stories and Mediocre Storytelling.

Every JRPG has the same basic storyline: Someone or some small group of people (Shinra, Gongora, the Vendeen Empire) is using a supernatural relic or substance to control a godlike force.

Some poor misbegotten orphan or miscreant or misfit teams up with an unlikely gang of hooligans to take on the evil person or group, unwittingly finding themselves in the center of a centuries-old prophecy along the way.

These stories (or rather, the slightly different versions of this same story) are always told with vague, wandering dialogue that includes gripping lines like “…”. The player must endure many different kinds of cutscenes, which sometimes drag on for half an hour.

2. Needlessly Complicated Game Mechanics.

Unlike DW’s majestic simplicity, modern JRPGs are packed with asinine “features” like weapon-combining, materia management, ring sorting, and crystal junctioning.

Each game requires the player to keep track of some new stupid (and counter-intuitive) system of tracking each character’s progress and development.

It’s bookkeeping masquerading a “something new”, because every game must include “something new”, lest the critics and/or audience realize that they’re watching the same dumb story and characters.

3. Repetitious Boss Fights and Convoluted Patterns for Defeat.

The aforementioned game mechanics aren’t just window dressing; the player must master the crystal-junctioning system if s/he wants to defeat the final bosses.

If you don’t use precisely the right ring at precisely the right time with precisely the right weapon and precisely the right magic spell, you will get stomped and smashed like Hyde United in the 1887 FA Cup.

Fortunately in the age of the internet, we can learn about this precise combination with ease, but we shouldn’t have to! In the old days, players could develop their characters into powerful mages and warriors, using whatever combination worked for them. (Okay, you had to use holy water to take down the vampire boss, but it all made sense.)

And JRPGs today make us fight the same boss over and over and over. Boring!

4. Real-Time Combat is the Only Combat.

I know I’m in the minority here, but I miss turn-based combat (TBC). As we’ve said on the podcast, TBC was likely necessitated by the limitations of earlier systems, and once developers could add the same complexity to real-time combat, they did. But TBC provides something unique for an RPG.

The player can plan out each move, take some time to switch weapons or line up spells, and manage the party. Especially when we’re in charge of multiple characters, real-time combat is a real grind. (BioWare has done some good work finding middle ground, with Baldur’s Gate and Dragon Age: Origins, but I still prefer TBC.)

Alas, most JRPGs are sliding toward the RTC-only pattern, and dinosaurs like me have few options for our preferred style.

5. Some Things Just Don’t Belong.

Chocobos are silly, and they really don’t fit into an epic struggle between good and evil. Why would anyone make a gun-sword? What is up with those stupid hats in Lost Odyssey? Why am I hunting for paper to feed a goat?

Apparently sometimes a dumb idea will get tossed out in the writers’ room, and they’ll all have a good laugh, and then it will get included in the game, presented with a straight face. Stick to the core elements, people!

The excessive conservatism afflicting modern game design, an understandable consequence of the level of financial risk involved in modern HD titles which may cost millions to make, has resulted in endless rehashes and a severe affliction of “sequelitis.”

Whilst this problem is fairly severe amongst western developers, amongst Japanese developers it seems to have resulted in total petrification, all the more so in the RPG genre, which appears to be eroding sales even amongst Japanese gamers.

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298 Comments

  • Whoever made that list is an idiot. They can’t figure out easy ass Final Fantasy game mechanics? REALLY? And I still like most JRPG stories. Seriously whoever made that list is a retard who can’t figure out basic controls. They should go back to playing Tetris or Pong or something.

  • precisely why I missed the Suikoden series (except 4). for it’s storyline, simplicity and it being turn-based. hear it konami? revive the franchise!

    I just don’t agree on the chocobo part, works for me.

    To each his own I guess. Maybe I’m one of the old dinosaurs lol.

  • Well can’t you say that stuff about all games. The first one was right on as far as the kind of stories jrpg’s have. You form a gang of random people on your adventures and somehow you end up in the middle of an epic struggle to save all life as we know it. That’s pretty much how Mass Effect goes doesn’t it, a WRpg

  • Anonymous says:

    #4
    I think the active turn-based system is a good compromise between real-time and turn-based.

    If you don’t know what that is then check out Final Fantasy II (IV), Final Fantasy X-2, or Chrono Trigger. It’s really an entertaining way to play.

  • Sandalphon says:

    The ‘writer’ does present some valid points, but he sounds a too much like an elderly person try to rationalize his perception of ‘why today sucks’, that is, complaining for the sake of complaining.

    The very formula of RPGs lends itself too much to repetition. After all, what is an RPG without a world threatening malady?… it’s little more than a Visual Novel.

    Also, some of the uniqueness of RPGs has been lost in recent years with staples like customization and character progress added to pretty much every other videogame genre.

    Just like the late 80s to early 90s were the gold age of ‘space simulators’, the golden age of JRPGs has come and gone.

  • Anonymous says:

    Geez, so they made one really bad game, but look at ff7 it made an important statement about the environment while still being the most fun final fantasy ever. Look at ff8 it had intensely sophisticated battle systems and a plot that was both immersive and insanely complicated. These are games that made the players think not just play. Games like these will occur again because there will always be someone to make them. The JRPG is not dead, it may not very healthy right now but it will never die.

  • Anonymous says:

    You should look at Dragon Quest IV’s story before complaining that new RPGs has worst story than old ones.

    “You’re the chosen one, now go there and kill the final boss.”

    That’s all the story that there is on Dragon Quest IV.

  • Anonymous says:

    That’s why I play Shin Megami Tensei and it’s spin-offs. Others should give them a try. Best RPGS I’ve ever played.

    SMT III:Nocturne
    Persona 2:Innocent Sin/Eternal Punishment
    Persona 3 FES
    Persona 4
    SMT:Strange Journey
    Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. The Souless Army
    Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon
    Megami Ibunroku: Devil Survivor
    Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner 1/2

    There are even more great games in the SMT series.

  • Anonymous says:

    well i love anime,i love manga and i love japanese culture.but the i think that JRPG’s are to linear to its plot.Game play still the same turn-based hack and slash,casting spells and buffs and im sick and tired doing these repetative process.(same with pathetic korean MMORPG rip-offs)i cant feel the its excitements thats why i opted to play Western RPG such as Diablo series,Neverwinter nights,Dungeon Siege and Torchlight(even though its a diablo clone but i like the pacing of the game)FPS game such as MOH,Call of Duty and Battlefield.and the last RTS games: Starcraft,Warcraft,Age of Empires,Warhammer 40k and Company of Heroes.These games that i mention are pretty interesting and exciting.

  • Anonymous says:

    I thought that the reason developers switched to RTC style was the fact that puzzles and side quests in the game give it a new flare?

    Is it such a bad thing as to solve a puzzle to get to the next room, etc all the while building up your stats, etc? Is it bad to go on a side quest to lets say find information regarding the next boss, where he can be found and tips on how that boss’s attack patterns/weakness works?

  • Agreed. I was really disapointed in FF XIII. Gameplay always the same, it’s too boring. Same to storyline. The core of jRPG’s doese’nt change for an ages. The Lost Odissey looks like the Legend of Dragoon. It’s cool in some way, but there is no progress. And now this games are mutch more easier and casual… Nowadays jRPG’s are not so bad (exept the last moment), but evolution is zero. So strange – twin-brother stories… That’s the worst moment.
    P.S. The gunsword is a real weapon, you know.
    P.P.S. But they still have charm, so that’s why I take some of them.

  • Daiyousei says:

    “sequelitis” -> Inflamation of the Sequel.

    Huh. That’s an interesting idea.

    On the subject at hand, I really have to say I agree. FF4 has some crazy charm that the recent ones kinda lack. I mean, one game like that’s probably fairly good and the graphics are really pretty… What happened to the innovation, though? It has to be out there, are people just too afraid of new ideas/systems failing that they resort to stuff they know is going to crash and burn? It’s odd. For what it matters, I thought FF 12 had a halfway decent story given the circumstances. I haven’t really played anything else past 4, though, so my opinion isn’t the best.

  • Anonymous says:

    next on top 5: “5 Reasons why biased fail-gamers shouldn’t be allowed to use computers”…

    *bitch and complain for 5 paragraphs*

    honestly can’t stand when ppl have to bash something to cause a little uproar just for amusement, but then again…

    ‘Welcome to the Internet! Would you like your insults now or when you least expect them?’

  • Anonymous says:

    I don’t mind Final Fantasy being the same all the time. It’s basically like mario and zelda. What I don’t like is when they copy and paste the same idea into other games and that’s why I’ve come to hate JRPG’s.

  • Anonymous says:

    1 – understandable.

    2 – I half disagree. I enjoy customizations, but I do agree to the extent that sometimes these customizations seem like a rehash of other things done before.

    5 – This is stupid. Chocobos are “silly”, and obviously writer is a boss at knowing what makes a good RPG. And the writer is asking why would one have a gun sword? Is h/she blind? It’s a GUN SWORD. It ups your badassery by 20 points. Switch from melee to range attacks INSTANTLY. What more reasons do you need?

  • Anonymous says:

    The fact is that I hate Bioware now. Stop using JRPG to help to increase your own market value please …

    STOP IT PLEASE … JRPG GOT ITS OWN UNIQUENESS … AND THATS JRPG …. THE RPG WE LOVE FOR DECADES ……

  • Anonymous says:

    Yeah, JRPGs have been mostly dissapointing for me this gen. Well, the console iterations anyway.

    Speaking of JRPGs, you might want to get started on your next headline, Artefact. The latest issue of Game Informer confirmed that Final Fantasy Versus XIII is going multiplatform. I’m sure this will come as a shock to many.

  • “DW’s majestic simplicity”. What the fuck! ME2’s version of inventory is “pick up glowing omniclips from the ground” while FF7’s materia system is incredibly deep yet something an elementary school student can understand.

    Let’s not forget that JRPG’s don’t force you to click on a fucking corpse (or 20 as in DA) to get to the “loot all” button.

  • Anonymous says:

    >Some poor misbegotten orphan or miscreant or misfit teams up >with an unlikely gang of hooligans to take on the evil person >or group, unwittingly finding themselves in the center of a >centuries-old prophecy along the way

    So he is basicly bashing JRPGs for having a party. Like bashing FPSs because THEY ARE FUCKING PLAYED FROM FIRST-PERSON PERSPECTIVE!

  • Anonymous says:

    I’ll only add that I think JRPGs adopting a RTC over TBC is complete due to western influence. I feel they see how western developers have been creating RTC and how popular it has been, and try to create their own version of it. But I could be wrong

  • Anonymous says:

    woooow, hot lines eh? but really have no respect for others work….i like both W&J rpg games and they have their own style for gameplay,

    because this difference, they have their own fans.
    they don’t need to invade others ideal of how games must be.

    and if some failure occur in one game, don’t judge the whole genre.

  • Anonymous says:

    I love chocobo ! Squall gun sword was awesome, and “stupid” side-quest are what make a game unique and fun. Those people obviously are just trying to critic the FF serie for one, and don’t understand the spirit of Jrpg.

  • Kinny Riddle says:

    Point 4 resonated most for me.

    I would be what modern gamers consider a “dinosaur”. I’m the sort of people that likes to think slowly and plan my moves carefully, as such, many video game genres that require instant reflexive reactions were out of my range, from fighting games, FPS, RTS and survival horror.

    That leaves just RPGs, before their battles became all real-timed based, for me. I could immerse myself in the story, and during battles, I could take it slowly, knowing as long as I pick the right moves, I can’t go wrong, even if it would take minutes.

    The recent trend in JRPGs to move to real-timed battles is probably a major reason why I got put off by them completely.

  • Anonymous says:

    I agree with point 4, thus i like the semi real-time turn like Chrono Crusade…. thinking about this, maybe it’s one of the main reason i still play old RPG on MAME(FF6, CC, BF, etc….)….

  • I don’t care I still play JRPG not boring the only problem I see is the character need to level up more that’s why people think its boring you keep fighting to level but I think there is a saying NO PAIN NO GAIN.

  • Anonymous says:

    OMG Right? JRPGs are totally dead for all of those reasons!

    1. EVERYTHING is about real-time fighting, and there’s no such thing as good real-time fighting JRPG, amirite? AMIRITE?!
    2. And the STORIES! PFFT! The stories are all the same, man! There’s always, like, people wanting to do this thing, and they work together for some reason, and then there’s this evil thing that needs to be stopped! FUCKING ALL THE SAME!!1!
    3. And why are the bosses so FUCKING COMPLICATED?! Why can’t we just run around to its back and slash it in the ass until it dies, or just kill it with FIREZ?!

    4. And Final Fantasy games are the ONLY JRPGs ever made! It’s not like there are other JRPGs out there like:

    Persona 3/FES (PS2)
    Nier (Xbox360/PS3)
    Persona 4 (PS2)
    Trauma Team (Wii) [this is by a stretch since it’s really in a category all its own]
    Persona/1 (PSP)
    Just about ANY “Shin Megami Tesnei” title
    Fragile (Wii)
    .Hack//G.U. Trilogy (PS2)
    SMT: Nocturne (very rare PS2)

    …Yeah, why don’t you take your head out of the steaming pot of FFXIII hate and look around you before you post “Reazonz Wai JRPGs R Stuepid!”.

  • Anonymous says:

    This is bullshit. JRPGs are the true RPG. Every game nowadays tries to be an RPG (with level up systems and what not) so it must mean something. American rip-offs can never hold a candle to a JRPG. You choose the category: storyline, combat, impact, legacy, graphics, overall worth (is it worth $59 bucks), or even emotional value. The eastern side of the globe are where record breakers are born, not on the western side where every other American is amazed by another fucking shooter. This website favors any form of negative news regarding RPGs, yet if you ask me, “True RPGs” (JRPG) are the best kind of game with the longest play times, console defining graphics, and can easily be understood as being worth full price from day one.

    • Anonymous says:

      How about the fact that in WRPG, you actually get to customize your character, choose dialogue options that would affect the outcome of the plot (i.e. ROLEPLAYING) and etc? So, it isn’t a true RPG then?

  • Abel Liegod says:

    oh come on, everyone loves a gun-sword!
    especially when you need it for someone who did a top 5 “reasons to why JRPG is dead”
    you can kill the damn guy slashin his body and headshootin him to finish it over with style!

  • Anonymous says:

    Real time combat is minority for JRPG, the big name RPG that have real time battle is Star Ocean and Tales..
    FF and DQ have turn-based batlle…
    He miss turn-based so he haven’t play FF and DQ for a while?

  • Anonymous says:

    Saying that chocobos are out of place is like calling horses out of place in our world.

    And the stories aren’t the same, the general theme of band of adventures set off to save the world theme is there. But are the really so retarded that all games and movies are in the end that very same theme.
    Take any movie and let’s examine it.
    Let’s look at an action movie

    1: Meet protagonist. Unlikeable or very likeable at first.
    2: Meet the people that will be important to this story. Family, friends, rival and lastly the bad guy.
    3: Meet “The Girl/Guy” (depends on the gender of the protagonist)
    4: They battle together and become close friends and maybe a bit more.
    5: Protagonist loses a battle and is shamed.
    6: Protagonist struggles in the final battle but the previous loss and some stupid word from the loved one, gives him the strength to turn the tides.
    7: He/she gets the love interest and the movie ends.

    This is the typical movie or game with a happy ending. Unless you have to impale yourself and turn into super jesus in the next mass effect or dragon age how are they really that diffrent in terms repeated themes?

  • Anonymous says:

    Did the writer just gave us 5 reasons why jrpgs are good?

    so ppl like unreal stories…y would i play a game based on real life? its a game not real life

    complex game mechanics? you too dumb to learn it or what?

    repetitive boss fights? ok lets put 1 boss at the end of the game and the rest will be scarecrows u can 1 hit ko

    everything’s like turn based combat its all a matter of how u see it

    somethings that just dont belong? ok lets replace chocobos with motorcycles that would make everything all right

  • Anonymous says:

    I don’t agree with number 1 mostly because there is no original story, I mean mass effect isn’t that original. You say A JRPG Uses supernatural relic? What about Mass Relays from ME? It uses tech from thousands of years, and has a ancient evil rising again to kill everything. So no this reason is shit.

    Number 2
    All games have complicated mechanics, look at sports games those are so hard now a days I jumped out of my fucking skin when tecmo bowl was on xbla. But that’s the risk you run of playing games, mechanics that will require you to LEARN HOW TO USE IT. You can’t pick up a guitar and learn it in a day.

    Number 3
    Mass Effect 2 has boss fights that was wave after wave after fucking wave of bad guys rushing you while taking on the human reaper. And some bosses you can just rush and beat to death, I remember one boss in ME2 where I rushed her (with that rush move) and just melee’d her to death no joke. I rather have them be hard by trying to figure out what weapons are best. Just like in D&D games where you need weapons that enhance your stats or a weapon that hurts a monster more then something else (like a +5 knife on the undead).

    Number 4
    Most if not all WRPGs are real time. I mean really I haven’t seen a turn based RPG from the west(Besides MMO because that would base the whole game for everyone over and over again), even Knights of the Old Republic which is a turn based game is played in real time and that’s a WRPG.

    Number 5
    Chocobos don’t belong to a FANTASY GAME? Wow I guess those big hairy things in star wars don’t belong either. A truly good game world has everything from environment, to plant life, to animal life. It is what makes a good game of any genre.

    And I love this line “I want to spend hours and hours sending my brave friends into combat, like I did in Final Fantasy VII (a beautiful example of what a true JRPG should be, even if it suffers from the repetitive-boss syndrome).”

    This kid is another fan of Final Fantasy 7 who believes all games that isn’t Final Fantasy 7 sucks.

  • Anonymous says:

    Why is this guy sighting games like FF7? Which was made like over 10 years ago, and he’s bitching about this NOW? The article is a little bit late in terms of criticizing FF7. While we’re on the subject, has this guy even played any JRPGs? They’re ALL turn BASED. The only RPG that I played that isn’t real time combat is Kingdom Hearts, everything else is just based on term based fighting.

    It seems to me like he’s too obsessed with US RPGs thinking they’re all great when a large majority of them have their own problems too. That said, JRPGs need a fresh up which basically means, getting rid of the same old storylines over and over, crappy graphics, and not to mention over complicated magic systems. That I do agree on.. and I’m going to end this comment with this:

    “If you don’t use precisely the right ring at precisely the right time with precisely the right weapon and precisely the right magic spell, you will get stomped and smashed like Hyde United in the 1887 FA Cup.”

    WTF????????????? 1887 FA Cup?! What is this shit?!

  • Anonymous says:

    Sadly I agree with most of what the article said. The last JRPG I liked was Tales of Vesperia, and even then it felt like a rehash of the previous Tales title. I didn’t much care because of the HD graphics, reasonably good story, decent english voice acting, and of course… Raven and Judith!!

    But I digress, point is I haven’t played anything out of Japan that feels fresh in years. Demon’s Souls is a notable exception but overall…

    Japan… I am disappoint.

  • Anonymous says:

    Most of these evaluations aren’t really accurate unless you stick solely to Final Fantasy, which honestly is a mediocre JRPG series these days.

    They were overtaken in storytelling quality and fun factor years ago by Genso Suikoden, Tales, and even Wild ARMS series games.

  • Anonymous says:

    I agree with his comments regarding the needless complexity of “crystal combinations” and such. I’m sure some of the Nobel Prize winners here will claim they can grasp all that crap in 15 minutes, but most players just get a FAQ. So what’s the point? When I played the first four DQ games I didn’t need a cheat book or a FAQ, and they were very satisfying. I think the game designers need to think about what the average player can reasonably be expected to figure out without needing a FAQ with 100 pages laying out the details of the relationship matrix with cooking skill subcriticals or something like that.

    As for TBC, I have no choice. I was hurt in a motorcycle accident and simply do not have the hand dexterity to play any RTC game. God bless the PS2! They brought out a massive number of classic TBC RPGs for it. I still have a few left unplayed, but when those are gone it’s going to be slim pickings. I did manage to finish FF: Crystal Chronicles, but it’s more of a lightweight button-masher. I was pretty proud of myself, though.

    • Anonymous says:

      Can you press a button with timing?
      I bet you might enjoy Resonance of Fate.
      It’s semi-turn based, semi-real time.
      While you run around enemies can shoot at you but if you ever stop, the battle freezes and you can plan your next move. I really appreciate this gameplay system, and the flashy gun-fu moves the characters use are certainly welcome too. It gets a little repetitive though.

  • I felt one of the reason was their passion, its no longer there compare to last time, where they can give you great games one after another in just 3 months later. Now its like “the game will be out in 5 months time, opps! lets make it next 2 years” then it comes out and it sucked.

  • Anonymous says:

    JRPG haters hate JRPGs because they are JRPGs.

    #1: An indictment of all RPGs. They are all cliche fests and have been for many, many, many years now.

    #2: Having to learn a new subsystem !=Overly complicated. I never encountered a system in any video game, especially JRPGs in which I needed more than 10 minutes to learn the fundamentals to my advantage.

    #3: Not a “problem” exclusive to JRPGs and can be found in Western games.

    #4: Asinine complaint by a JRPG hater. JRPGs are in a catch 22 when it comes to Western critics. If its a turnbased combat, “old and stale” if it is realtime and its “old and stale”.

    #5: Another asinine complaint. Why can’t there be some lighthearted/silly elements in a game? Oh I forgot, to Western developers, everything has to be either grimdark or bubbly&cheerful, there can’t be anything in between.

  • Anonymous says:

    Silly article – it discusses JRPGs as if they’ve only recently died, while most of the examples of why they’re dead come from the times when they were hugely popular (ffvii & ffviii)

  • Anonymous says:

    I agree with point 4…but the rest is crap…come on!…”repetitive storylines with nothing new”?…there are A LOT of western RPG’s that has the same storyline…or Dragon Age Origins was something that NEW?.

    • Anonymous says:

      Dragon Age isn’t that new. It’s like Lord of the Rings with the order of things rearranged set in a new world with a twist in magic similar to Warhammer Fantasy’s twist and subversion in dwarfs and elves stereotypes.

      However, the execution was quite well done.

  • Anonymous says:

    The combat system is what ruins “jrpgs”
    The slow, tedious and repetitive battles you are forced into, again and again. Strategy is great. But half of the time, all you need to do is use the attack command.
    Then the game has the nerve to force you to keep doing it, either through random battles or forcing you to grind up to a level high enough so you can get out of whatever dungeon you’re in.

  • Anonymous says:

    The only wrpg I played was Dragon Age Origins and if most wrpgs are like this then they have just as much problems as jrpgs if not more.

    1)Too much dialogue. I don’t want to pick what line to say over every little cutscene with random npcs.

    2)Too much retarded questing. It’s like 80 percent of the game.

    3) 90 percent of the armor/weapons/items are unnecessary.

    4)Repetitive battles that don’t require much strat.

  • Anonymous says:

    the storyline part is kinda dumb well of course it’s gonna be the same idea somehow i mean come on almost everything has been thought of so how are you sopposed to get original with these games

  • Anonymous says:

    Where’s the mentioning of ecchi scenes and fan service-WAIT oh no there was probably no playing of games like Record of Agarest War in this article. Makes me sad cause I feel like this is judging J-RPG’s by it’s cover, which are games like Final Fantasy and whatnot.

  • Anonymous says:

    Okay…On the first point… Similar stories?

    Dragon Age and Mass Effect 1 had the EXACT same story.

    Loghain=Sarus

    Grey Warden=Spectre

    Same basic story!

    I also don’t see the point of that statement either. JRPGs have to have a protagonist/party and the evil antagonist/organising who wants to rule the world. Just like, well, EVERY GAME.(Explicit examples, in case people want to argue: Splinter Cell Conviction, Assassin’s Creed) The statement is just bullshit!

  • Anonymous says:

    This guy is a complete fucking retard. How can he claim that jRPGs have shitty storylines when games like Oblivion forced you to go through no less than SEVEN FUCKING OBLIVION GATES IN A ROW to get to the end of the main quest. And no, I don’t want to do the boring fucking sidequests that are generally all the same.

  • Anonymous says:

    this is so stupid. i have played dozens and dozens of jrpg and never got tired. even more, the last jrpgs i played, i did it for a lot more hours (ffXII 190hrs; Makai kingdom 500 hrs, etc). it is true that a failure like ffXIII may cost square-enix a lot, but that doesnt mean jrpgs are dead or going to die. i think the idiot who wrote this list is a “american first person shooters” lover or something like that. my favourite rpgs are those that keep the 2d graphics like tho ones of gba and nds, and i wish they never stop doing great games like those.

  • I know he didn’t go and make a derogatory comment about FF7. Does he have a death wish? Real time sounds good and all, but how many ppl can go through their 1000+ items in real time?

  • Anonymous says:

    I agree with the general concensus that this is COMPLETE BULLSHIT, really this guy, THIS COMPANY, is stuck in the damn 90’s because as far as I know NO JRPGS ARE LIKE THAT. HOLY SHIT I am tired of hearing this “They’re all about a ragtag team fighting a superevil in high fantasy” really? Most RECENT JRPGS (Not the 90’s shovelware crap you’re intrested in) are not like that in fact most of them are URBAN FANTASIES in modern times, or SCI-FI, the only high fantasy great evil one I can think of is Etrian Odyssey, and that was awesome. And about the new systems, wow for all the talk about “stagnation” the introduction of something new seems to be shocking to your dilapidated mind, really if you can’t deal it’s your fault, and the “Guide-Dang-It” bosses, well that’s called DIFFUCULTY and USING YOUR DAMN HEAD, sorry its not just mindless collection for more crap like in WRPGS.

    Really in my opinion these are the problem of a WRPG, boring systems convuluted by thousands of parts and mechanics which are probably discared for the BIGGER SHIT WINS rule by the end, tangled by horrid examples “Darker and Edgier” the kind in which mindlessly adding “mature things” like sex and gore somehow make the game deep. Oh and if you want to blame the lack of TBC look to the WRPG, nearly all of the NEW REVOLUTIONS have RTC, most JRPGS have TBC a supposed “flaw of thiers”. Also you’re complaining about something like a fictional bird, a made up weapon, when your shit has FUCKING DRAGONS and MYRID of other COMPLETELY FALSE AND ANATOMICALLY INCORRECT CREATURES, wow so I guess only the west is allowed to be creative (And by that it means do the same boring DARK shit as always). And really they’re jokes, the funny sidequest are meant to be FUNNY SIDEQUESTS, plus most sterotypical characters I see are in WRPGS like DAO, and all this complaning is like the Nier hero debate between the two production teams, because the western team couldn’t deal with the character “NOT LOOKING LIKE HE COULD WIELD THE SWORD” in a game with FUCKING TALKING BOOKS, really you want to apply logic NOW for this FUCKING IGNSIGNIFICANT DETAIL, in an already FUCKED UP MAGICAL UNIVERSE, it is just plain freaking pathetic.

  • Anonymous says:

    Let’s see….

    1) And our shitty western games totally do NOT recycle stories and elements over and over again.

    2) I’m an autistic retard who can’t keep track of the slightest bit of information. Hell I don’t even know how experiences and level works. What are equipments?

    3) I’m a ****ing noob. Any boss that isn’t 90% quick time events are way too hard for me. Any boss that doesn’t die in 1-2 hits is way too hard for me. In fact, I’m still stuck against that tutorial boss in the beginning of an RPG. Why do people keep calling me a casual gamer?

    4) Look fucking harder.

    5) EVERY GAME MUST BE BORING AND GENERIC!! A unique or cool looking weapon? Nope, not generic and overdone enough! Every game must only have 3 classes only! A fighter, that must ONLY hold 1 sword and 1 shield. A mage that only casts simple spells! And an archer, that can ONLY attack in the backline with bows!! Screw creativity!!

  • Anonymous says:

    Fun list, it just doesn’t describe JRPGs, most JRPGs have NONE of these traits.

    Only Final Fantasy does.

    And for the “no gunblades lolol” – way to blend out history. The writer needs to go back to highschool. Europe had a few gunblades in the real world. No joke. And bayonettes, which are, essentially, turning guns into bladeguns.

    Fail article is fail. The JRPG only dies because modern “gamers” need to be spoonfed – no exploration, no difficulty, everything needs to be QUICKLY solved, like a WOW quest. It also dies because modern gamers are afraid of liking any game that doesn’t look GRIMDARK. They even cry about fucking Diablo when it has a single rainbow in one screen.

  • Barbarian of Gor says:

    Here’s a piece of “Western Wisdom”;

    “Too many cooks spoil the soup.”

    I think with the “Big Budget” of these games these days they run into the same problem large corporations run into, especially making movies. Too much money is at stake and so the investors try to ‘protect’ their investments and essentially there are too many people who can demand fundamental changes or shut the whole thing down. The end result is a piece of PC sh-t flushed into the stores for the consumer.

    I don’t know how it is exactly in Japan, but I think it’s similar with the “Fat Princess” where the “Four Finger” thing freaked out a tiny ethnic group, or rather scared producers it would. They probably could have published it without anyone noticing since the perceived insult was only the most abstract of comparisons, but they were too afraid of past reactions over overtly racist things, and just didn’t want any “Friction”. They were in it to make money, not to make anything new, challenging, interesting, just dryly suck money to keep producing things and pay the bills.

    The thing I utterly hate most about PC is that it enables a “Tyranny of a Vocal Minority”. All this does is hurt an audience while gaining it no additional customers.

    For instance, say you published an old-school “Pulp” magazine full of African Cannibals with filed teeth, sinister Orientals with very exaggerated stereotypical yellow skin, slant eyes, sinister -‘cept for the ladies who are sex toys, had Jews as suit wearing hunch backed bearded pushy creeps who either were clutching a bag of money or poisoning wells…

    Well, you’d get sh-tloads of complaints and other publishers/distributors trying to block it. They’d want to change it, make the “African Cannibals” disappear, run page after page of apologies to the Orientals and Jews, etc…

    BUT, it’s not that any additional black people, orientals, jews, etc. would buy the fiction. And, being forced to “File down” the rough edges, the Pulp would become a modern watered down PC insult to it’s old “Two Fisted” glory.

    However, that’s “Big Media” which I argue we Boycott.
    Computer and communications technology has improved so much “Small” operations can do almost as good as any “Big” one and easily better than “Big” ones in the past. Move to smaller publishers, individual sales, you’ll have people who make things who don’t care about the “Rough Edges” who “Dare to offend” even. Maybe you won’t like that and won’t want their product, but someone else will.

    Beats these big, bland pieces of sh-t being flushed on us, I say!

  • Anonymous says:

    First of all: it is ok if one doesn`t like JRPG`s like what you want as much as you wynt.

    1.:In some of the latest JRPG`s that might be true but some really have very interesting storys(plots). (Persona 3 /4 , FF VI,VIII,X) But that is a personal opinion like the question what films you like.

    2.:If you are unable to grasp the way you can use the game mechanics for your own then trial and error. In my opinion it is better if you cant advance without certain degree of power(level, strenght…) and tactical understanding (even better if you can somehow overcome an lack in power with a good strategy).If thats too hard play Tetris.

    3.:Only a minus if it is boring doing so. But in most games I want to do this and that at any cost. Weather it be collecting all weapon, powering them to max, gain new summons/skill/magic/ characters or even beating the final boss (not storywise if thats not the strongest you can compete with). But usually you can set yourself a goal and try reaching it.

    4.:If you like it that much it is your opinion. I prefer turn based games but I have nothing against atb or realtime either but there can be much differences as well.

    5.:You are not gonna be happy if you take life too serious and remember we are talking about games. You should be able to relax/have fun playing games. So ,, Just smile” 😀

  • Anonymous says:

    What happens if you enjoy the same old story told different ways. Every story has been told in some way or another, it’s about finding the combination of those story elements to create something of worth. Also one of my favorite parts of RPGS are the new interesting character progression systems and the necessary strategy to defeat certain enemies. Complication makes gameplay deeper in certain areas. I don’t know why they mentioned real-time being a requirement in JRPG because there are still many TB/ Semi-TB systems still being made regularly. Honestly, the person who wrote must not be an RPG junky like me because this is very poorly analyzed and written. The age of JRPG is not dead. The fanbase may be getting smaller, but I will not stop playing them.

    And Bioware should stick to just making games. They’ve made some good ones but I don’t think their opinion matters much, especially because they may be biased in the first place.

  • bioware is stupid. they think their own game are revolutionary, but they are the same shit. they only sell more because they got a bigger market. beside they same thing can be said to their game.

    1. a bold middle aged macho,woke up. and start an epic adventure to kill some psycho bad guy, to save the world and protect worldpeace. etc etc

    (facepalm) their are tons of jrpg better than bioware’s game. like whiteknight chronicle, Valkyria Chronicles, star ocean 4 etc

  • Anonymous says:

    I don’t care what thinks someone who obviusly don’t know any rpgs aside from Final Fantasy Series.

    1.Dumb Stories and Mediocre Storytelling.
    Yeah, allways is about save the world but occidental rpgs like DA aren’t a exception.

    2. Needlessly Complicated Game Mechanics.
    I beat a lot of rpgs and never used the alchemy systems.

    3. Repetitious Boss Fights and Convoluted Patterns for Defeat.
    I dont remember occidental rpgs with great boss fights they have a high level of life points, and you must drop them. At least in jrpgs you need some kind of strategy is not reduced to attack.

    4. Real-Time Combat is the Only Combat.
    I miss turns too.

    5. Some Things Just Don’t Belong.
    “Chocobos”…you know there is a lot of rpgs out there without chocobos. JRPG=/=FF

  • You bring Star Ocean into this then I wont hold back. The Vendeen Empire didnt use any sort of ancient device or whatever.

    SPOILERS FOR SO3

    They were actually the ones trying to PREVENT the use of such devices (Symbology) so Bioware or whoever wrote that should actually play more than 5 minutes of a game before they act like they know what the fuck they are talking about.

    END SPOILERS

    And I prefer convoluted controls and magic systems to the mindless hack and slash of WRPGs.

  • I'm not sure this is the most agreeable list they could have made. But the general sentiment that the industry is going downhill is something pretty much everyone at least can agree upon.

    A lot of the tropes are there and understandably so. What's mediocre is how these people tend to not make much effort in developing them into something interesting and engaging. And variety would be nice if they knew how to do it. Like most of them fail to realize how to make an interesting political conflict. It's often either bland because they don't know how to write things that aren't epic, or that when they do have something interesting politically and interpersonal going in the story, they have some forced epicness and out of nowhere or nonsensical twists and turns that make people just wish it stayed simple and built less and less quickly.

    The problem with abandoning the old battle system is that most people don't know how to do it. Kingdom Hearts didn't have a bad system aside from the lack of options and strategy. And Chrono Trigger was a good balance where you didn't have screen changes for battle or even random battles, and it all fit in smoothly with a fairly fast paced "turn" styled battle with ATB. Too many nowadays are like a cheap action/adventure game. Clearly you have to know what you're doing as you move away from the old system.

    I tend to think the Tales of games as least know what they're doing with action combat to the point I like it better than turn based. Tales of the Abyss for instance had a really nice battle system.

    Some sidequest are really good and enrich the game, and moving away from them often leads to the "no towns" horror that's starting to dawn upon us, it's just that some of the main sidequests, and in general, are littered with too many necessary boring things for completion. People need to be more inventive and have less half attempted sports events, bejeweled game throw ins, and fetch quests.

    And a gun sword is just rule of cool. Not bad at all.

  • Anonymous says:

    Hmm…I prefer playing jrpg’s over any western Rpgs.

    wrpgs have the same shit storyline too, some gangster from somewhere goes off and takes missions and gets money and bangs hookers.

  • Anonymous says:

    Can’t please everybody. If any game tried to do so, it’d lose sight of its genre. Not that that’d be so terrible, since we are the ones trying to compare everything to everything else all of the time.

  • Anonymous says:

    You forgot to mention the same generic characters which populate them. Such as: traditional Japanese beauty, Western blonde, cat ears girl, pussy emo fag, ghetto negro and ‘sexy’ jailbait girl.

  • Anonymous says:

    JRPGs are so dead. I mean, sure Kingdom Hearts is a waterfall of money. Crisis Core is one of the top ranked PSP games of all time. Dissidia was the best selling PSP game of 2009 and depended completed on the popularity of JRPGs. The Pokemon franchise is an eternal cash cow. Monster Hunter continues to sell millions. There’s always news about upcoming JRPGS like Legend of Zelda, Demon’s Souls, and others that don’t even need mentioning.
    JRPGS are not dead. It’s just easier to point out the crap than it was a few years ago.

    • Anonymous says:

      Best comment so far.

      If someone says that X genre is dead you just need to show him a successful game of that genre, in this case Demon’s Souls.

      There’s no need to argue anymore. Period.

    • Yeah, there are tons of good RPG’s out there like Demon’s Souls. I don’t remember most the fights in that game being copies of other games, but i could be wrong as i havn’t played alot of my RPG’s in years. It had a decent story without it being needlessly overcomplicated by stupid shit, it was a hard game to play, and it was shiny. Then the Zelda games are usually the same story wise, but its a classic RPG so thats always overlooked. Its just a different enemy, different plot to destroy the world.

      This review just sounds like he came from some dissappointed butthurt FF fangroup when he found out FF13 wasn’t the shit. Of course all RPG’s look somewhat the same, they all take the same core elements. Thats what makes them RPG’s and unfortunately makes them look somewhat the same, you can’t have you cake and eat it too.

  • Anonymous says:

    This has to be the worst list ever; when I read it I pretty much thought “This is what makes the games unique, enjoyable, and not shit.” Plus, who disses gunswords and chocobos? Those are the best things ever.

  • Anonymous says:

    Bioware shouldnt rly comment on those points as their Dragon age is like Newerwinter Nights for 100st time, same gameplay/gamemechanics,they doing the same thing over and over for years now, im bored of those ever ultra realistical games with their ultra realistical stories and plots, people forgot how to relax, ewery1 needs a reason for something asking themselfs “why” when they stumble across something they cant logically understand. Im asking myself why the humans exist in the first place, is that logical, does it have to do something with earth…etc. Who cares for gods sake not ewerything needs a reason and just becouse something dossent makes sense its bad. Now im not saying lets make ewerything without logic, but i want to play games not copies of reality that i have eweryday before my eyes.

    I have to agree tough that most of the jrpgs are rly weak when it comes to story and character development, its like a fighting game with some story that is playing to be an rpg.

    Lest not forget… 100 people 100 tastes.

  • Anonymous says:

    I don’t mind that all of the Tales series games are rehashes ’cause for me, the battle system is what does it for me. The Tales battle system, to me, seems like one of the only ones to do real-time combat in a way I thought was fun. Star Ocean is also kind of fun, but some The Last Hope fights were complete landslides forcing you to grind excessively….Infinite Undiscovery was kinda stiff, to me.

    Honestly, though, why can’t they follow Dissidia’s example and have 2 different battle system types available. Surely it’s not hard to include a turn-based system in the game, even if it’s just simple with no gimmicks. How do you figure that Dragon Quest has survived so long?

  • Anonymous says:

    I agree that the bad stories is definitely a big minus for JRPGS. But how can the guy complain about item synthesis, materia management and all that other stuff? That stuff is awesome! Even western RPGS like Baldur’s Gate, any game of D&D, Dungeon Keeper, Diablo, whatever has some degree of skill branching, advanced game mechanics and item gathering. He complains that such complexity is stupid yet later supports complexity in a TBS for the same reasons he hates skill management and item gathering.
    No chocobos either? JRPGs have always had more opportunities for light hearted moments and goofiness. What the heck is wrong with a chocobo or tonberry or slime? Western RPGS have giant space hamsters. I agree with the other stuff he says but this article really got rage inducing when he ignores the flaws of western RPGs as well.

  • Anonymous says:

    I’m a fan of RPG in general. However if I think about it then I haven’t played almost none of the recent titles. It’s because I see less and less gameplay there. There are incredible controls,incredible graphics and gameplay gets moved to somewhere in the backscene.

    Compared to the times when I could spend some sleepless days just to clear FF Tactics to nowdays when my consoles are gathering dust…

    I think they just lack someone courageous enough to give a damn about the current flow and make something completely out of the box.

  • Anonymous says:

    Frankly the “complexity” problem isn’t one. Having no way to create unique weapons or objects kills the RPG sense. Same thing when you can’t really create spells or anything. The ‘lord of XYZ, with god powers’ can’t even come with something new. The ‘Tales of’ series come up with something approaching but IMHO they’re doing it wrong (Like the guy is repeating 150 times the same technique and then, suddenly, he’s coming with something completely new and unrelated…).
    Sadly, the problem is that almost no RPG went very far in matter of combination. You can only make pre-determined combinations but that’s all.

    The real problem is that, even if there’s still a LOT of breakthrough possible in RPG, rogue games and games alike, companies are shitting themselves and don’t want to take any risk. So they’d rather exhaust some old RPG ideas and trends that ‘worked’ or ‘are working’, until it doesn’t work anymore (The current trend being flashing pants and boucing boobies), instead of trying something new which ‘might not work’.
    And JRPG are plagued with a fanbase who can be really dumb, shitting on any new idea because ‘it’s not like the previous versions’.
    And really, you can see it in the critics. “I want turn based combats”. No, you don’t really want turn based battle. You want the ability to pause and prepare the actions of your team at any moment. That’s not an inherent property of TBC. I remember that in games like Chrono Trigger or some Final Fantasy, enemies could kick your ass while your struggling with awfully thought TBC menus.

    TL;DR : They need a good kick in the ass and stop relying on their ‘fanbase’, that’s what they really need.

  • Anonymous says:

    Can’t agree with it.
    1. Yes thats true but its about how the story and the chars develop.
    2. Thats only complex if you look at it from a “i play shooter and call them rpg durdur” perspective
    4. Meh there are enough TBC Games and some wont go RTC ever
    5. Thats only an opinion. what exists in these fantasy world is up to the creator. If you find it stupid thats fine, other might like it. I dind’t like the gun-sword but after a chainsaw-gun the gun-sword doesn’t look that bad anymore.

  • Caligastia says:

    Couldn’t agree more with the first 3, especially #1, I felt so betrayed in that respect by FFXIII, the story was so cheesy, overdramatic and nonsensical(latter parts), that it opened my eyes to western games, I’m glad it did though Western developers sure have caught up and have made awesome games last few years. I still can’t believe they made a Final Fantasy with that gibberish of a story, so much visual candy with so little substance is sad.

    #4 I don’t see as a bad thing. I actually love beyond praise FF 12’s system. I wish they would make another game with something like that. It could be entirely automatic o entirely manual. Real time or turn based if you decided to set it to wait and input manually all commands. It was awesome.

    I don’t mind #5 at all. It’s part of what made me like these games. He’s just nitpicking with this one…

  • Anonymous says:

    He/she does have some points, but in the just starts rambling like a moron. I know most modern JRPGs aren’t exactly unique (note SOME, not all), but then using Final Fantasy (the classic Final Fantasy, nonetheless) to make an example of bad JRPG… that simply doesn’t make any sense. Except the part about gun sword. I never did get that one.

    Oh, and CHOCOBOS RULE, FAGGOT!! I just thought you should know.

    And just to be clear, I love Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect, but they could both stand to be a little more like a JRPG.

  • Pyrolight says:

    Number 5 is so very wrong. Chocobos are win with whipped frosting.

    The problem is after the Snes era too much time was spend on graphics and not enough on story.

    Just look at FFVI vs FFVII. The Story in VI was far deeper but VII was really shiny.

  • Anonymous says:

    I disagree with point 3, combat has become retardedly simple to the point that there really is no strategy, and that’s a problem. I hated Final Fantasy X with a passion because it was terrible and the only thing that I got any joy out of was the monster arena at the end where the real challenge was. Clearly the writer never decided to tackle some of the optional bosses in older JRPGs like FF5. Most of them require that you know the system well. This was even in the original FF where you would need to the system fairly well to beat enemies like Warmech.

  • Anonymous says:

    i like the old school jrpg style of gameplay better though, the ‘convoluted patterns for defeat’ are there for you to use your brain to come up with tactics/strategies to actually win. Though games like “Fable” and “Oblivion” were good too, the whole ‘keep pressing “x” to shoot magic and win against whatever your fighting’ style of battle system is just too boring.

  • Anonymous says:

    This all started with SquareEnix when the PlayStation2 was about 6 years old. As I remember FF10x2 was the 1st sign of advance and failure as it was too complicated to play and leaving a controller with buttons taped down while you slept so it would level was too much. Xenosaga 1 was most excellent but the computer replay missions did quickly kill the want to play but you had to if you wanted money in game and to level up KosMos. Xenosaga 2 was like FF13, a long visual novel movie with a little play. Xenosaga 3 was exactly like FF13, it followed 1 path from start to end and watching movies was it. The downfall of lame writers and visual novel people thinking they can make games has arrived.

  • Well… story lines are same always everywhere: movies, games or even music!

    Game engine *needs* to be improved: new players can be in disadvantage, but for that reason is there training… old players just want to see something more: not only same attack of same weapon.

    Boss by it self is most hard piece of game: always new with new abilitys… it leads to stereotype.

    All together: we need game “Michelangelo” which will broke old game logic – personally, i “really” don’t know how to create new (different from old) and still interesting story… if someone know: post “entire” story to some game creator.

  • RadiantHawkWings says:

    I’ve always been a fan of the older JRPGs however at some point I tended to shy away from them simply because the characters were boring or too close to game I just finished playing. All of them seem to have the virginal girl, the slutty girl, the rough and tumble guy, the church boy, the tall slender handsome one, and the bratty one who is later joined by the mystical, otherworldly one (usually a naked girl suspended in a chamber or pillar of light). It’s cool at first but after a while it gets tiresome. When I was 15 it was all I could do to get my hands on everything with an anime style. Nowadays I just want a fulfilling game experience.

    • Anonymous says:

      Naked girls suspended!? Where!?

      I’ve been playing RPGs for about 15 years now and I can’t say I agree with all the bashing of JRPGs. While FF13(12) wasn’t the greatest it was still not as horrible as some make it out to be.

      I remember a couple of years back when I got my hands on Vagrant Story for the PS1. I sat for hours playing that game and it’s still one of my favorites that I am currently replaying on my PSP.

  • Anonymous says:

    1. If you want story, go read a book.
    2. The game mechanics make it more interesting than just leveling up and giving yourself a new weapon every once in a while. For most people, this makes a game more fun, because it gives a player more control over how the game is played.
    3. Here’s what I read, “WAAAAAH! BOSS FIGHTS ACTUALLY REQUIRE SOME TYPE OF EFFORT!”
    4. I like RTC of TBC. Why? Requires skill. There’s a big difference between, “He’s swinging, I need to dodge now and attack him before he has the chance to strike again” and “Oh god he’s swinging, I hope it misses or it doesn’t kill me. Yay it missed, now I can do my attack, excuse me Mr. Monster while I take 10 minutes to pick my attacks.”
    5. What? A game has something that may make you laugh or maybe enhances the game experience? UNPOSSIBLE!

    Overall, this article was written by a casual who hates games that actually require skill.

  • Anonymous says:

    JRPG are not dead, real gamers are. You get a game and play it to the end, was it bad? well sorry but if some one else liked it? why do we need to hear so much people cry for 1 or 2 bad games, at the point all you´re talking about is final fantasy 13 and eternal sonata, I have both games and they´re good, maybe not as all JRPG but they can give you some fun, I bet that most people saying craps about FF13 have 2 hours playing the game. And right now if you want good RPG, get a ps1, ps2 or nintendo ds.

  • “Materia Management”.

    That was a great system. I lost all respect for the writer when I said that. And Chocobos and Gunblades are lame? Those things are awesome!!

    A couple of good points in there, but the JRPGs main problems are getting overly-simplistic and using too many clichés. Simple as. If you made another game along the lines of Final Fantasy VI with some good writing, everyone would love JRPGs again.

  • Anonymous says:

    Well personally. I only think it’s only the people of the west who find it that way. They don’t have the patience or appreciation to accept something so basic. You know what they say,”You wouldn’t know what’s important until they’re gone.”

    • I’m someone from the West, and I love turn-based combat!

      It’s like playing chess, whereas other western players prefer speed chess. You can decide what actions to take, weigh the options of whether or not to advance someone in a given direction, magic/skill/job-wise, and customize those characters based on your own gaming style.

      Too bad so many titles which go to the West (or come from the West) are nothing more than ADD Eye Candy.

    • Anonymous says:

      Yes it is. I think its the chess match, the strategy needed. It is why I like Civilization games as well. I like being in control of my entire party because the AI is like a retarded lobotomized cockroach. RTC almost always amounts to button mashing. I didn’t even have to do anything in FF12 just walk the character through and they would handle all the fighting by themselves.

      • Anonymous says:

        I was waiting for someone to mention them. The Tales games have some of the most cliched stories, but I still love every freakin’ minute of the fun they provide me. To this day, Tales of the Abyss (my bro beat Symphonia, but I stil need to play it) is my second favorite JRPG, behind Persona 4. I think these reasons are bullshit; I love the cliches, I love micro-managing my characters, so long as it doesn’t make my head explode. I love games in real time, with the exception of Final Fantasy 12, which was ironically the one that was most like an wrpg (quests, open world, no random battles, in fact, it makes me think of Rune Scape). And chocobos kick ass, idk what the hell the dude’s talking about. Are jrpg’s declining? Perhaps, but that doesn’t stop them from being awesome.

  • Azure Xuchilbara says:

    F*ck that, it all comes down to cute anime girls in the end for me…The story and everything else is a bonus…

    The only reason I played Lost Odyssey, for example, is so I can stare at Cooke’s delishush loli armpits every time she does her victory pose~

    Bioware can’t cater to the tons of fetishes only a JRPG can deliver…Intentionally or not~

    It would make them look bad in America (and the rest of the world) if they ever did that~

    As much as I lie their games, they should keep their comments shoved up their rectums…

    To me, JRPG will never die as long as there are cute anime girls willing to show off some armpits–er, extra skin…If it’s both tits and armpits (like Tifa from FF7), then that’s a bonus!!!

  • Anonymous says:

    pretty much agree, I miss turn based combat, people nowadays bitch if it is turned based because they say they hate it, and if it’s real time they hate it for not being “innovative”

  • moebius22 says:

    1. Dumb Stories and Mediocre Storytelling.
    ======
    More like juvenile stories and a juvenile approach to character interaction and storytelling. Characters (even enemies)who have nothing in common get won over by the charm of the main character for no apparent reason other than they have to- that’s not good storytelling.

    Furthermore,Final Fantasy 13’s writing was godawful in places with lines like:”Mom’s are tough.”, “The Heroes never die!”, and “We exist to make the impossible possible!” Give me a break!

    2. Needlessly Complicated Game Mechanics.
    =======
    Every JRPG you have to learn some new convoluted battle system. Grandia 2 for the Dreamcast is still the best I have seen.

    3. Repetitious Boss Fights and Convoluted Patterns for Defeat.
    ========
    Xenogrears for the PS1. If you didn’t fight the bosses exactly a certain way you and your mech would die- that’s it!

    5. Some Things Just Don’t Belong.
    ========
    This is one of those differences between Japanese and Western tastes. Japanese like mixing seriousness with silliness. Westerners like the mood and characters to be more consistent with no comical relief. Final Fantasy 13 felt childish in this respect with sudden transitions between pathos and silliness.

    I have been gaming since the Coleco Vision days and while many of these games were fun when I was growing up, I have largely outgrown their adolescent approach to storytelling. I want mature characters, mature content, and realistic character interaction. Western RPGs still have a ways to go, but are still light years ahead of JRPGs in these areas.

    • Been console gaming since the Atari 2400 came out, and I can remember the blissful amounts of time wasted finishing Raiders of the Lost Ark and Haunted House on that venerable system. Amongst other games.

      I bought the original Final Fantasy with my own money back when it first arrived in stores on the East Coast… and got Dragon Warrior also. At last, better equipment that you can buy or find! And something resembling a story line you could follow.

      Then, the Super Nintendo came out, and I was ecstatic. Super Mario World! Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past! Secret of Mana! Illusion of Gaia! Super Metroid (still one of my all-time favorites)! Final Fantasy III (VI)! And last, but not least, Chrono Trigger. My collection of gaming cartridges exploded around that time.

      Not long after we’d all settled down into a comfortable zone with the SNES, Sony shows off it’s new console, the PlayStation! Suddenly, cartridges are no longer in, and CD-Roms are The Next Big Thing…. hotter than the Devil’s Nuts.

      It took time to get over the jump in technology, but I did it. Soon I was sporting all new games: Descent, King’s Field II, Grandia, Final Fantasy (the PSX games), Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain, Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver, and now Sony was reissuing old SNES titles I had enjoyed as anthologies…. hooray!

      After the PS2 came out, I never really recovered. I still do computer gaming, and sometimes I find a game I really wanna play, but this rig can’t handle the graphics and/or text compression of… but I’ve mostly given up on the Next Big Thing in favor of seeing where they [console gaming companies] take us as far as the technology goes.

      I think the technology is outpacing our imaginations as far as game creation is concerned… that and people are afraid to venture into new story ideas or gaming models with a high risk. WHAT THE FUCK EVER HAPPENED WITH TAKING A RISK?!? Shit! >_<

      It's because of risks taken that humanity has been able to go as far as fast as it has over the past several millenia. And they want to play it safe? What a bunch of fucking pussies. And by pussies, I combine almost everyone involved in game console or media development and marketing.

  • RaspberryKisses says:

    j-rpg haters always will hate. i personally love J-RPGs for story character and armor/weapon/world design and hate rpg like fallout 3 for horrible character and armor/weapon design and nonexistent plot. But i also like bioware rpgs for choices and story.

    • Anonymous says:

      I totally agree with you.
      I really think it depends on preference, I mean I really can’t handle real-time combats because I grew up with such games like jrpg. I just think that the companies need to make more effort to make the game more interesting. I think it’s weird that the comment say that it’s just repetative because don’t all game have a basic plan to follow? If you just look at shooting game, it’s just basically point and shoot but you have to add all the interesting interface and sceneries and weapons too.

  • All of this is sensationalism following the recent popularity of hating on JRPGs, which of course is because of the less-than-awesome reception of Final Fantasy’s newest numerical title. The reasons given in this particular line-up, outside of arguably number 1, are utterly asinine. Newer games utilize newer game mechanics precisely because tried and true has been tried and true for twenty goddamn years. There is no sense whatsoever in assuming that every RPG should have completely similar systems when moving from game to game.

    I haven’t seen a single boss fight in recent years whereby players are required to utilize a specific unchangeable pattern to keep victory. Modern games have become increasingly ergonomic. To say that the average difficulty has mounted is fucking ludicrous. And his words about how in the olden days players were able to customize their characters as they wished? I’m sorry, what? Did he bother to pay attention to the dozens of JRPGs that offer precisely that, at a greater level of customizability than just about anything a decade and a half ago?

    And real-time combat is slowly becoming more used, obviously, because there is now no technical limitation in putting together a game that functions properly without it. There are still tons of turn-based RPGs, but they are becoming fewer because developers are now able to make the game they want to, rather than having to adapt to mechanics they would otherwise not use.

    Finally, arguing that chocobos don’t fit into Final Fantasy is utterly fucking braindead. They’re a mainstay and mascot for the series, and have been for several years. Final Fantasy has never been about a grimdark end-of-the-world scenario where cute-looking animals can’t exist. These are all his clearly personal misgivings, and really aren’t even worth putting on such a list.

  • Anonymous says:

    The only point I don’t get here is point 4… other than graphics, moving to realtime combat is the only improvement the genre is seeing.

    Yeah, a lot of people probably like turn-based combat, but I find it boring to be honest. Really, if your combat system is so complicated that the user can’t handle it in realtime (maybe with a system like Red Dead’s “dead eye” or Fallout’s “VATS” to go along with it) then you haven’t designed it very well.

  • 1. In my opinion, the story nearly always takes a backseat in RPGs, giving way for players to decide what they want the outcome to be.
    2. Would you rather only have one attack button in your Turn-Based Combat User Interface? Or maybe only one set of equipment for the entire RPG?
    3. At least you train your cognitive power, not your senseless button-mashing ability.
    4. “dinosaurs like me”. Dinosaurs like you.
    5. The words. For. The. Lulz.

    • Anonymous says:

      1. It’s not really necessary for the story to take a back seat. Especially since jRPG don’t give the player much choice… Tears to Tiara had a good one, in my opinion.
      2. One button is not enough for a game to qualify as a RPG. But it doesn’t mean you have to invent a completely unique mechanic for yours. just look at all the other RPGs lying around, both computer and tabletop.
      3. It’s not cognitive power, it’s “googling” skill.
      4. Dinosaurs like us. If i wanted quick action, i’d have chosen those action games. RPGs are about having options in combat (especially if you’re a mage) and choosing them.
      5. As long as your “lulz” don’t disrupt the atmosphere, it’s fine. But if you’re doing an Epic Struggle, you should keep lulz to a minimum.

      • NeverSleep says:

        1 – Agreed.
        2 – But using the same mechanic as all other games turns things even worst in a shorter time.
        3 – Most of the time you can find the info about the weakness of the monster talking to NPCs, visiting libraries or reading files…
        4 – I prefer TBC too, but an well done RTC system is as fun as Turn Based…
        5 – One word: Dragons. They could be replaced but are cool, just because they’re cool it’s ok to put them on a game?

        And WRPGs almost always ends the same way, or have 2 endings, one if you turn to be a good guy and one as a bad guy… most of the earlier history is pretty much the same.

      • Anonymous says:

        no actually they just give you bazillions of quests like “slay 100 generic orks and bring me their heads” or “collect 50 mushrooms of doom and bring me their heads” und at a certain point you can decide wether you want to be a evil magician or a royal knight, but you end up killing the same boss anyway.

      • Anonymous says:

        False.

        Current major game makers have put less emphasis on and more emphasis on money and flash and bang.
        Also, they want to make Grind time = Play time. The guy has not reflected about how people look at his production line and compared rather than looking and $$ and playing bratty bashing.

        What is wrong with a gun-sword? Has the fellow ever heard of ‘imagination’? The only valid argument he has is the mediocre storyline.

        Seriously, the guy is only out to bash JRPGs. How about saying what is better about WRPGs?

  • Anonymous says:

    “…DW’s majestic simplicity…”

    Has anyone tried to actually play the first DW/DQ game recently? It’s not actually very good. At all. Say what you will about Final Fantasy XIII, but at least in that one I’m not having to grind for hours before I can buy my first Potion.

  • most of the reasoning are my reason I play JRPG …., it’s precisely because of “Unlike DW’s majestic simplicity, modern JRPGs are packed with asinine “features” like weapon-combining, materia management, ring sorting, and crystal junctioning.” I love JRPG.

    • Anonymous says:

      Well people taste may be differ

      But JRPG is just somewhat lame now. Its like there is no JRPG worth mentioning after PS2 era ( yeah i like persona 4 its an example how JRPG should look like )

      anyway at point 5. Choboco was good in epic battle, take FFT for example a bunch of red chocobos are able to decimate your entire party clean and fast.

      • i don’t like the acronym “JRPG”. in my youth it was simply, table top rpg, (console)rpg, and (pc)rpg.

        all are separated in my mind. i don’t give a fuck about table top RPG’s. that could be because i never played them. if i had nerdy friends and lived in the 70’s i might have played them.

        console rpg’s are what I’m all about. i liked the stories and gameplay, which wasn’t overly complicated. but, the thing that really got me, was the long life of the game. it made me feel like i got my moneys worth. breath of fire 3 was my first rpg. and the gene system and story of self discovery made it intriguing.

        pc rpg’s were something for teens and adults. i couldn’t grasp the countless hot keys and inventory management until i was about 18. that’s the first time i gave it a go with morrowind. i was actually against the game when a friend showed me how to play it. it looked boring. but after i exhausted metal gear solid 2, by getting 100% completion on all difficulty settings, i traded half life 2 for morrowind. the game opened up my eyes to the new style.\

        all in all, i don’t think the 5 points refer just to console rpg’s, but to all game types. what he should be saying is beware of becoming overly repetitive in any game genre.

  • Rarely have I agreed more, then what that guy is saying.

    Hopefully my kids will only hear of the horrors of JRPGs in myths and in history class!

    Damn, I wish JRPGs would just drop off the face of the earth already…

    Inb4 down-rated for not being a J lover.

  • Not many people are going to agree with me most likely, but I really felt like facepalming when reading those top 5.

    Those top 5 mean nothing to me, you can say the same about almost all other gaming (sub)genres…

    No need to state the obvious.

    • Anonymous says:

      JRPG is the evolution of True RPG… The one who wrote the 5 reasons must be a purist of the Ancient Generation….. Such a loser! TBC is where RTC evolved from. It just follows Real-Time. Which makes the agi/speed or dex stat of RPGs full of possibilities (it also makes sense).

    • As much as we would complain about these elements, they are also the very things we like about JRPGs over other games.

      I’ve been playing JRPGs long enough to know what to expect from them, and anyone who complains about such elements in JRPGs probably shouldn’t be playing them in the first place.

    • Now that they’ve sorted ALL this out for me. Could someone please give me 5 reasons why FPS are still a “success”? They have as many issues as jrpgs if we’re going to nitpick and criticize…

      • blaqcat, the only reason why a good percentage of FPS’s are made in the first place, is when a new hardware is made, they need a demo to show it off to other developers.

        for instance, when i was in game design school, i got insider information about valve. the team was very small. they wanted to push the new physics engine to sell the engine to other companies.

        then person in charge of the development of half life 2 told his game design crew to break off into several teams and create random levels that utilize the new engine and are basically fun to play.

        after a length of time, the levels were all complete. the good ones were chosen to be in the game and the bad ones were scrapped. then they just took the levels tried to put them together in an order that made sense, and wove a story through it. that is why the levels themselves looked so different and from a reasonable stand point didn’t really make sense.

        FPS’s are the easiest type of game to make, from a technical stand point. my guess as to their popularity is that, it is the closest thing to being able to explore a new world yourself. still i have several for my pc, but i don’t really like them all that much, except cod:mw2. i just got them to put my pc to benchmarking tests.

        • Not quite. Look into the Half-Life 2 Beta leak. While not really a Beta it’s a lot of an old build of Half-Life 2. It, along with Raising the Bar, make it quite clear HL2 was originally supposed to follow Gordon through a 3 day journey through City 17, but the game felt bloated and overwrought. So they pared it down to a more focused game and have you hitting the important set pieces they’d already designed fairly quickly.

          As for FPS’s being the easiest to make? That’s a pure crock. As for their popularity, I’d say it’s how engaging they are. No, not as in engaging stories, as a few have me saying ‘WTF is going on?’. It’s the fact that since Half-Life cut out cutscenes and popularized putting the player in the scene as it unfolds the story’s not a passive experience and we get to sit front row in these cinematic set pieces. Meanwhile the gameplay is always giving you something to do, though how well done that something is can be debateable.

    • i thought i was going to get angry and curse bioware for this comment, but in reality, they are right.

      1. the remedy for this is not following the story of being the main character that has to turn the tide of a struggle single handedly. i have about 8 story ideas for games that i am working on. all of them have nothing to do with “taking on bosses.” or overthrowing an organization.

      2. after playing breath of fire 5, i have to agree with most of this. why make it complicated to satisfy critics. ff12 did work out the proper way to add control to the complexities. the gambit system was my all time favorite way to control AI, even though i didn’t care for the game itself too much.

      3. i agree with this too. especially in my youth of gaming. playing Chrono Cross was the definitive of this experience. i still don’t understand the messed up color schemes and how that stuff works. although i’m color blind, it still would seem hard if i could see it.

      4. i am on the fence on this issue. i think it depends on the game. i do wish they would let you choose your battle type on the fly, but either way if it is executed properly, they both work out fine.

      5. i can sympathize with this. maybe not about the chocobos, but maybe other things. like how a 12 year old girl could get 10x stronger than a 40 year old life long warrior in the course of a couple in game days.

      *6. i would like to add one. needlessly complex puzzles and dungeons. i can understand if caves are complex, but to think a military base or enemy hideout can be nearly 100 acres of pure mazes and puzzles. i much rather prefer the games of yesteryear, where the hideouts were reasonably sized, not drawn out to make the game drag on. after getting invested in a single dungeon for about 12 hours then having to double back to 3 more dungeons to finish the quest, it gets repetitive. and i end up running past treasure chests just so i can get on with the story.

      that is all.

    • Anonymous says:

      i agree with you . But 4 in particular wtf ? different weapon for each attack that’s just weird real time is good because its fun . I almost fell asleep playing dragon age and fallout with their freeze and select move .

    • Anonymous says:

      i agree to your statement.

      and chocobos are the only thing i can remember about final fantasy other than cloud (since i don’t really play FF). Moreover, these five points are mainly why i like JRPGs though.

      I don’t know why, but the westernised games are just not my kind. Other than the blizzard games, lol. I would always go for the JRPGs first, it’s ftw :3

    • Anonymous says:

      I facepalm too. Also…
      >>Shinra
      >>many different kinds of cutscenes, which sometimes drag on for half an hour.
      >>weapon-combining, materia management, ring sorting, and crystal junctioning.
      >>gun-sword.

      This guy isn’t raging about JRPGs… HE’S FUCKING RAGING ABOUT FINAL FANTASY SAGA.
      Hell, maybe XII and XIII aren’t good… But most of the things he mentioned appear in games from VII to X.
      WHICH I MAY REMIND ARE SOME OF THE BESTSELLER RPGS OF ALL TIMES.
      Hell, I’ve recently been checking game rankings, and FFVII is the second or third in the rankings. AFTER MORE THAN 10 YEARS

    • Anonymous says:

      Exactly. And sometimes overgeneralized too. But Sankaku likes to be negative towards jRPGs just to cause cheap sensation. Oh well.

      And about this question:
      “Why would anyone make a gun-sword?”
      When I was in Czech Republic I was in museum that showed off some weapons. One of them was real gunblade, with inscriptions on the blade. Here is the pic: http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1504/gunblade.jpg Cool, isn’t it?

      Anyway, what’s so bad about stuff actually looking cool in jRPGs? In western RPGs we get people in exactly the same realisting looking armors, monsters in DA are slain the same as in every fantasy movie, and well, it doesn’t have mind blowing story.

      • Anonymous says:

        Ah, but that only means that someone had this stupid folly long time before them and as such, FF devs are damn unoriginal as well.

        Gunblade is really cool (which is the very reason the one you linked was made, I guess), but it really doesn’t make sense, especially with metalwork quality in old times.

        PS. What museum was that?

      • Anonymous says:

        Hehe, glad someone linked the real gunblade. I always wanted someone to have a link to one ready when someone asked “Why would anyone make a gunblade?” and I just show them a pic and say “Ask your relatives.”

    • Anonymous says:

      srs this is getting annoying the more I read it.
      THESE ARE FUCKING GAMES. All the same sterotype guys who say JRPG dies, dies here dies there because this and that well well guess what nerdtards? you play them anyway

    • ddragoonss says:

      This guy is a fag.

      It’s like to say “RTS are bad because it has no turns or pause button” or “FPS are not original, everygame has weapons and a first person camera-view.”

      I can’t explain in words how much these “5 reasons” are gay.

      • ddragoonss says:

        Dragon Warrior and Dragon Quest.

        Before you ask again, DW/DQ(2 diferent names for the same thing) is a RPG game series, a good one, mainly because Akira Toriyama character design and long well-written storylines(some DQ take 200 hours to finish properly).

        • i agree with anon@5:14
          it is good to give information about the world you’re playing in, so as to immerse the player, but to force feed them needless information is going too far. also, the stupid characters… anon hit the nail on the head. it’s like they take a game that did well and say “let’s copy EVERYTHING!!!” maybe we’ll get something right.
          then they copy characters, plot points, and even enemy ideas.
          i think the writers should base characters off people they knew growing up. maybe they could break new ground on character types.

        • Anonymous says:

          I will absolutely agree with all the points on this list. What turned me off of JRPGs was a combination of the things on this list and the sheer terribleness of characters in these games. It’s always the same emo-whiny brats, the spunky annoying girl, the pouty distinctly only appelaing to Japanese girl, the pretty boy, the bad boy with a past… It’s a cluster-fuck. And don’t get me started on the abysmal outfit design. Even monsters are getting stupid in the aesthetics department. Oh god, and the naming. FF got obsessed with giving everything a name, and a poor name at that. A tree is now something nonsensical, and its roots are somethign other than roots, and its seeds were something else, and the pollenating of the tree was something else. I’m not interested in learnign a new language and culture here. I want to just have a good time.

        • Anonymous says:

          exactly just like the similaritys in monsters in ff(Tombery) Persona/Shin Magami Tensei(Personas are monsters in the other games)
          i dont say they take always the same(they develop enough on their own)

        • ddragoonss says:

          What is the mean of “some” in your dream world, Alice?

          Chocobos weren’t in th first final fantasy, but everyone will say chocobo is the mascot of the series, a common appearance in final fantasy series, so stop of be a weirdo and go learn some textual interpretation.

        • Dirty_Dingus008 says:

          Don’t mean to be nitpicky, but as a young scrub I did indeed played the original ‘Dragon Warrior’ and it didn’t take that long to finish. perhaps if one was nuts; 200 hours might be the length to “properly” finish that game, but only a truly fanatical otaku would ever plunge in that deep~
          For its time the game was pretty straight forward and since my avatar was a block Toriyamas’ drawings never factored into it. ‘Chrono Crusade’ was the first time I ever saw his work since it graced the box. Perhaps the first true release of a Japanese illustration in America!

    • ddragoonss says:

      This guy is a fag.

      It’s like say “I don’t like RTS games because don’t have turns or pause button” or “FPS isn’t original because every game has a weapon and a first-person camera”.

      I can’t name how much this “5 reasons” are senseless faggotry.

      • Aye. I were thinking the same. Same gameplay? What about FPS. You’re running around, shooting people, shooting people, shooting people, OH! Shooting people behind the rocks, shooting people who actually shoots at you…

        Football games? Sports games in general are the most repepetive games I have ever touched. Driver games are pretty repetitive too. Though, Mario Kart was an awesome exception.

        Say one thing about something, and the same will be true about everything around.

        • Anonymous says:

          it would be the company’s decision to take the “unique” characteristic since it is a risk of a game’s success or fail. I’d give points to those who at least tried to add something new, not just a renaming job.

        • Anonymous says:

          I’d hardly think that a match of MW2 would feel very similar, in terms of player experience, to a round of Bad Company 2. Despite how easy it is to generalize, they really do feel very different when you play them.

          To be honest, the only JRPG series that feels different from other JRPGs when you play it is the MegaTen franchise.

          (This also helps to explain why MegaTen is best.)

    • Captain_Zero says:

      I facepalmed even more with nº4. Omg, RTC is too fast for me and doesn’t give me time to think. Ffs, then what would he say about the combat method of Persona 3 in which you can only control the MC and expect the AI of your party not to be retarded in crucial times.
      And seriously, what’s with the chocobo hate? They’re too cute to insert in a epic struggle between good and evil so we should transform them into ugly, badass dragons, mutant versions of a triceratops or something along those lines. Yeah, that would be totally original…
      And about nº2, hint: the game has tutorials for something. I suppose that even if his brain is too slow for slow RTC it’s still good enough to read, right?

        • Anonymous says:

          I refuse to play any game with real-time combat as the only option. I don’t have the fast enough reflexes to be able to work with most real-time combat games. I don’t see what’s so hard about giving players a CHOICE. I know I’ve played a couple games where you were allowed to choose between turn based and real-time combat. Why does it have to be one or the other?

    • a lolicon says:

      Indeed. Every game produced is a remake of, or a slight variant on, an older one no matter which genre the game belongs to.

      Instead of complaining, why don’t whoever wrote this make one of these unique games that no one has ever experienced before? I’d like to se him/her try.

      • Anonymous says:

        Agree with 7:07 for the most part, but there’s a couple of points I’d like to add.

        1: Storylines in JRPGs are a bit stale, but it’s gotten to the point where they’re expected. When a game tries to stray from the norm, it’s often both a commercial and critical failure. And WRPGs aren’t any different. How many WRPGS are there out there that don’t deal with swords and scorcery, orcs and elevs, Tolkein-esque fantasy? Plenty, but those are mostly post-apocalyptic/dystopian future with vast conspiratorial governments ruling over everything such as Fallout, Mass Effect, Tabula Rasa etc. All basically the same, and that’s not a big issue.

        Why? Because the games are still entertaining. Take a look at the dating-sim genre in Japan for example. Most of the stories are the same. You play a young guy, equal parts geeky and cute, whom through various circumstances ends up with a bevy of women throwing themselves at you to win your affection. You could have inherited a restuarant filled with buxom waitresses from a wealthy uncle, been hired as a teacher with throngs of shoolgirls wanting a very sexual education from their new teacher, or play a young executive with a plethora of secretaries wanting to break through the glass ceiling to climb the corporate ladder. All basically the same, but the games still reach astonishing sales numbers.

        2: Systems in JRPGs usually aren’t complicated at all. Most will include a short(under 3 minutes) tutorial to explain everything, and that’s enough. This equps my gear, that boosts my stats, this attacks with the weapon, that uses spells etc. Everything is explained right there, and it’s very easy to pick up. Far easier than WRPGs, where your stats are often determined at the beginning of the game based on what character you choose, and if you happen to choose one with one point of STR, DEX etc. less than you need, you’re basically screwed because there’s no way to fix it.

        Of course there’s no way to know what stats you’re going to need without prior knowledge, extremely good instincts, or just dumb luck that you pick the right combination. This leads to a trial and error gameplay, multiple restarts, and a great deal of frustration for the player as opposed to an enjoyable experience.

        Oh and for the record, I much prefer taking two minutes to follow the tutorial for a new sytem and then messing around with it on subsequent plays than using the same old AD&D rules template that Bioware is so fond of rehashing in its games. For something as simple as the sphere grid/CTB system in FFX, people have worked out some amazingly complicated strategies to get through the various challenge games they’ve played.

        3: As mentioned earlier with the whole STR/DEX/etc. thing which determines whether you complete the game, or completely fail at it, WRPGS are far more guilty of this sort of thing. And that doesn’t even cover the pallete swaps. Oh look, I’m fighting a green dragon. Now I’m fighting a red dragon with slightly higher stats. And the dungeon boss is a gold dragon with even higher stats.

        4. I actually agree with this one. I like turn-based combat, and it’s good to have that in games if it works for that particular system(FFX being a prime example). At the same time, I still enjoy combat in real-time, and won’t hesitate to play a game that has it. Also a mix of the two is great. It can be a difficult thing to pull off, but when done correctly t’s often better than using either one solely. Games like Star Ocean and FFX-2 which work in real-time, or give the illusion of real-time, and then stop the action when you’re in the menu choosing attacks make great use of this.

        WRPGs also have a great example in Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura. Combat in Arcanum can be chosen as real-time or turn-based, and the two can be switched between at any time, even in the middle of combat. A stealthy character can sneak up on an enemy, enter turn-based combat and attack for a few turns until they notice you, then enter real-time combat to finish them off quickly. The reverse also works. You can start in real-time, and if you get swarmed, you can switch to turn-based to fight enemies in a more strategic way. It’s a very nice system, even with the typical AD&D stat issues.

        5. Ok, no. There’s nothing wrong with chocobos at all. Having chocobos in Final Fantasy is the equivalent of having Banthas in KOTOR, mounts in WoW or spaceships in Mass Effect. It’s just their form of transportation, and all of them make perfect sense within their respective universes. Heck, the Mechano Strider in WoW is basically a robot chocobo, and no one complains about that, so doing so about chocobos seems rather ridiculous.

        TL:DR WRPGS are just as guilty of these things as JRPGs. This seems to be another case of Bioware’s pot calling the proverbial kettle black(or yellow if you want to look at it that way).

      • Anonymous says:

        @:Comment by a lolicon
        01:46 16/06/2010 # ! Neutral (-0.3)

        This guy here definitely did his/her homework. Modern works are often using the same jargons over and over again. Why, because they work.

        Say the character design for Snake for example is similar to that of James Bond and Rambo. Is anyone going to complain that that is not original? No, because it works.

        Gears of War is no different from the A-Team, but do anyone care. No, because it works.

        Lets put Bioware’s foot into their own mouth. Bioware has a habit of using the traditional DnD with games like Neverwinters Night and Balder’s Gate. Both games are dungeon crawlers. Like it or not. Run through the dungeon kill the boss end game. Typical RPG.

        Both games draw similar concepts to JRPGs of Dungeon crawling. To hardcore gamers, storyline is secondary. Their primary ecstasy is their accomplishment of completing the game defeating every challenge set by the developers. That group makes up the majority of gamers.

        As the points joints up, the finger is obviously pointed at discontented major western game developers for their own incompetency and envy of JRPGs.

        Obviously, this message goes out to amateurish writers who dare not write official articles using their actual names.

        “Do your homework before commenting further.”

        • Anonymous says:

          Yep. Someone who’s complaining for the sake of complaining. Maybe he’s secretly Dutch or something.
          By the way, if we’re talking about things that don’t belong, there are much bigger targets out there. Take for example Half-Life, that well-praised shooter. Well, I liked it, but I stopped counting the number of times I caught myself thinking ‘this room just doesn’t make sense’. Crates hanging over bottomless pits, machinery which have only one conceivable purpose: annoying the player, normal-purpose rooms so convoluted that no architect would design a building that way, rooms clearly designed for the fight or puzzle with no real world use, and so on.
          Compared to that, are Chocobos really that bad? We, in non-fantasy reality, used to ride a variety of animals not that long ago, and some enthusiasts still do.

        • 1.) Generic recycled plot? Yeah that’s pretty prevalent.

          2.) I have no idea what this guy is on about.

          3.) I’m confused the games he’s describing were also repetitious.

          4.) They still come out with TBC.

          5.) Most of it can be skipped, but yeah stupid pointless shit seems to be pretty prevalent in a lot of these games. It’s like they just needed to add content so they added 20 hours of fetch quests. Well that’s prevalent on both shores to be fair.

          Well there are a lot of shit terrible JRPGs out there but there are occasionally decent ones that even get shipped to the US. If you’re really a fan of JRPGs though you should probably learn to speak Japanese and play the ones that get released over there before you make sweeping generalizations.

        • Anonymous says:

          Agree with 1, the stories are slowly getting worse and worse.

          As for 2, how can you even say something like the materia system is “needlessly complicated” or complicated at all for that fact. Yes it may seem very confusing at the beginning, it IS a unique game mechanic after all, and that’s what keeps the game interesting. Don’t you think that it’s same with every other game? Or would you rather have every single JRPG have auto-assigned stats for every level up because anything else is just ‘needlessly complicated’.

          3. Wait, what? you’re complaining because you have to do more than just selecting “Attack” to kill a boss?

          4. This, IMO, all comes down to personal interests. The first RPG I ever played was Secret of Mana on the SNES, I was so young back then that I didn’t even know what an RPG was. SoM was RTC and I loved it. Few years down the track I grabbed hold of FF7 and also loved it.
          All in all, the point I’m trying to state is that just because YOU like the TBC system, it shouldn’t mean that the games should all be using that system because there are always people, like me, who prefer a mixture of both.

          5. Things like chocobos and gun-blades are more the like iconic symbols for the game I would say, they aren’t silly. Nowadays, for anyone who plays RPG’s, sees a yellow emu-bird like creature, don’t you think that the first thing that comes to mind would be something along the lines of “hey, that thing looks like a chocobo.” or “hey,that’s like the gun-blade from FFVIII.” Although I’m not even sure if that’s where its originated.

          @ Overt – I would have to disagree with you on the “pointless HD graphics” statement.
          Seeing as most people buy the new gen consoles FOR the HD graphics I wouldn’t really consider them pointless. Yes, the storyline is an important factor but I honestly don’t think it’s important enough for them to just solely focus on JUST the storyline and not the graphics. I mean, if a game was release for the new gen consoles with an amazing storyline but had graphics on par with say a PS2, don’t you think people would be disappointed that they purchased a console worth hundreds of dollars only to see graphics that can be made with the old gen consoles?

        • The 07:07 anon sure read my thoughts.

          While the article is pure crap, it still nails(loosely) few generic ideas about what is wrong in the current JRPG trend, like endless rehashes and less focus on the depth of the storyline for pointless, yes pointless, HD graphics.

        • Anonymous says:

          I agree with this anon here for the most part about how bad that article is.

          1. Ditto with anon. I don’t mind the overall plot rehash issue, since there are no new stories, but my issue is mostly in the smaller details. It’s the scenes and character traits and smaller plot twists that tend to get rehashed the hardest when there’s less excuse to do so.

          2. Ditto with anon. It’s definitely a case by case basis, but most sub-systems I’ve found to be relatively inoffensive. I actually liked Materia and found it rather easy even when I first played in the 90’s. Some of them are kind of bad, though.

          3. I sort of agree here with anon, although I think some games are much worse offenders than others, so it’s really a case by case basis.

          4. Disagree with anon. I can’t stand most RTC systems, and between a fair amount of RPGs taking up this system, including big-name titles like Final Fantasy(sometimes) and Xenoblade, as well as WRPGs getting bigger, I worry that the trend is going to shift more in that direction with all the bandwagon jumpers.

          5. Massively agree with anon. And eff anyone who hates Gunblades.

        • Anonymous says:

          1. Agree here completely, but as far as stories go, pretty much everything has been done. Either you’re an orphan that saw your village burned, or you’re a prince that was wrongfully dethroned, or you were a great and honorable knight that was betrayed, etc. Rarely does the story become epic when you’re already on the winning side.

          2. Disagree. ‘Needlessly complicated’? It’s not needless, because it’s part of the learning curve of the game, part of mastering YOUR character. If I wanted to faceroll through my RPGs, I’d stick to World of Warcraft. And complicated? If you find that you can’t get the grasp of ANY game after an hour or so, you shouldn’t be calling yourself a ‘gamer’, let alone writing articles about games.

          3. If you don’t like the aspect of having to deal with trivialities such as these, then again, you shouldn’t be playing RPGs. You belong in the category of RPG players that think “this item is of a higher level than this, so it’s definitely better”, instead of “this item isn’t as strong when I fight this guy, but I’ll keep it because it’s good against these types”. Even DA:Origins has that concept.

          4. So what about people that welcome and embrace RTC? Bias much? I personally love TBC, but I’m not going to whine if I find out that the next RPG I’m gonna be playing isn’t one.

          5. Not everything in an imaginary world is good or evil. Chocobos have been a staple of the FF series, and fans love them. Bioshock, Fallout, DA:O, Mass Effect, all of them have ‘silly’ things that add flavor to the world. Why do we celebrate Children’s Week in World of Warcraft?

          This article is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in the rambling, incoherent writings was the writer even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone that’s read this article is now dumber, for having read it. I award the writer no points, and may God have mercy on his soul.

        • i agree with 1 and 2. alot of those item combining or food makin stuff are complicated and is a total waist of time. i miss the old jrpg days. btw, i dont agree with 5. adding cute lightens up the game. chocobos= awesome. idk about the odyssey stuff