Bioware: “Final Fantasy XIII Definitely Not An RPG”
- Categories: Games, News
- Date: May 14, 2010 19:02 JST
- Tags: Bioware, Final Fantasy, Production Controversy, RPG, Square Enix
Leading western RPG developer Bioware has said that hit corridor crawler Final Fantasy XIII “isn’t an RPG.”
Commenting on the development of Star Wars: The Old Republic, Bioware’s Writing Director Daniel Erickson launched into an opportunistic salvo against Final Fantasy XIII:
“Well, before I address the main point I just want to take a slightly more controversial route: You can put a ‘J’ in front of it, but it’s not an RPG.
You don’t make any choices, you don’t create a character, you don’t live your character… I don’t know what those are – adventure games maybe? But they’re not RPG’s.”
Bioware has previously criticised JRPGs as being “stagnant,” so it is by now no secret that the company has a low opinion of a genre which in fairness has only a tangential connection to the original conception of a “role playing game” – “stats based dungeon crawler” might be a fairer description.
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the real rpg is 3d hentai game
Squaresoft fucked up with FF13, but I feel bad for Enix. They never did anything wrong but they are still guilty by association..
the only true rpg i know is sims
Oh my God, please tell me the reason why Sims is considered an RPG? The things that I know about Sims and how it is played, my lack of knowledge of its gameplay and the sentence that you wrote with a +4 approval combined makes my head hurt.
Or you could just tell me you guys are trolling so hard.
Hehe, yeah Bioware should be the ones to talk, with their boring, generic RPGs. Long since have passed the times, when they could make a great game, like the original NWN.
Isn't Bioware just angry because all games they made recently which they hoped would come close to the succes that was Baldur's Gate failed them.
What? You're a retard.
Baldur's Gate - 2 million copies sold
Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn - 2 million copies sold
Mass Effect - 1.6 million copies sold after six weeks on Xbox360 alone
Mass Effect 2 - 2 million copies sold after one week
Dragon Age Origins - over 3.2 million copies sold
Of course Final Fantasy XIII is not an "RPG" it's obvious it's and "jRPG"! >.> Don't compare Japanese rpg's to some shity western ones >.>
Yes because everyone knows and RPG isn't a RPG unless it's a RPG. You'd have to be the dunce of the century not to know that.
Y'know, this isn't about Bioware's games. This is about whether or not you agree with the statement, "Final Fantasy XIII is not an RPG."
Glad I haven't bought a Bioware title in ages, if all he's gonna do is trample on JRPGs when they're down.
At least Bethesda I still have respect for.
The whole reason I play JRPGs is because of the unique characters and story. If I were actually role-playing I might as well grab any clone MMO.
For a modern epitome of the JRPG experience play 'Resonance of Fate'... it's got the random turn-based battles and takes them to a whole new level.
Well seeing how you haven't even tried any Bioware games your opinion is just a bias one and has no merit in this discussion.
Since when did choice = role-playing?
If you ROLE-PLAY as the Pope, do you have a choice in believing or not believing in god?
When you ROLE-PLAY a role, you have no choice because the choices default to the ROLE you PLAY.
BioWare and numerous other people are attempting to redefine the word "role-play" instead of coming up with a new word that suits their taste in "choice" "freedom" and other mass marketed buzzwords.
Way to go stupid, you won the awards. You can go now and suck a million dicks.
You are stupid as fucking hell, listen to the guy above before you infect other people with that ignorance of yours that you call knowledge.
You couldn't be more wrong.
I could role play the pope, lying to my followers that I believe in god, blabla and all just to give a public speech a year later about how the 11th commandment is "Thou shall have gay sex every week!" from now on.
Your example is a particularly bad one since no other human being can prove that you don't believe in god/you do believe in god.
Role playing is the definition of deciding the choices your character makes - I'm a barbarian, but am I a savage that laughs at the brutal dead of innocents going all lengths to reach his goals or am I a lone warrior that lost his tribe now seeking vengeance but still helping the weak? Those are the choices you make for your character - I'm a paladin but even then I have my weak moments and get in fits of unjustified rage against my enemies when in the middle of the atrocities of war, just have to make sure not around my allies or otherwise I will probably die by their blade for committing a war crime (or will someone stand up for me? their decision!).
In FF XIII you have none of that. You can't decide who lives or who dies. You can't make decisions that probably could hurt yourself or your allies later on. If a person insults you can't decide getting angry or letting it slide.
Your characters are going on to progress on predefined rails through the story without your input at all. Your task is to get them safe through the battles to get to next person you talk to - nothing else. As soon as you're approaching a person you can lay of the hands of controller since the characters on screen will act according to their fixed morality/current mood and sometimes they will surprise you when they respond in ways that you think wouldn't be appropriate for the given situation.
man im tired of shit being said about this game!! its an awesome game i heard so much shit about this game and i still bought it and im glad i did i fucking loved it! it will make u laugh,cry and you will enjoy it.. dont listen to what others say just play it lol
FxxK YOU
you don't have the right to redefine anything.
JRPG is not RPG, that why we called it "JRPG"!
If you look at the progression of RPG in the west as a whole, it never really evolved until FF7 come to the west. Many modern games are actually inspired by FF series, before FF7 most of the western games have almost no story to tell, or the stories simply too shallow to involved the player emotionally. Story telling was never a strong emphasis in western games back then.
Many so called "(W)RPG" today touting their adventure/shooting/action game got a deep & interesting story to tell... Does that sounds too similar to JRPG from years ago?
Then they should remove the "RPG" and rename it.
Lol, Mass Effect 2 is not an RPG either.
shut the fuck up about final fantasy 13, people are so god damn picky about games and just need to get a god damn life
Mass Effect is a a dumb down shooter with rpg elements.
FFXIII is a dumb down RPG...
Erickson probably came out sounding a bit more arrogant than he intended. Saying FFXIII is not a good game is one thing, but judging what's a RPG or what's not is going a bit too far. Let the consumers and critics make those decisions, you just worry about making good games!
I think saying "FFXIII is bad game" is far more arogant and subjective than telling "FFXIII is not a RPG". You missunderstand what good game is and what RPG is. Because RPG=/=Good game. Consumers usually dont fucking know anything about gamemaking and storytelling. Consumers decide what is good game. Developers decide what is a RPG (regrettably since they often use it only as a cheap selling point). If he says that FFXIII is not an RPG because it lacks most principes that makes real RPG for him (and for anyfucking one P&PRPG player) its absolutely right.
The point of the comment is that both what a RPG is and what a good game is are both subjective. But trying to expressing your opinion based on some arbitrary principles (such as what an RPG is)in an attempt to give it authority is what's arrogant. Much akin to someone attempting to claim that he speaks to "anyfucking one P&PRPG player".
No, what is and what isn't a RPG is NOT subjective, unless you are talking about how the meaning of all words themselves are subjective, but then you're of in the deep trenches where words like "house", "gun", "tree" is also subjective, in which case the word subjective looses all meaning and your point is moot in any case.
For a quick example, Quake is not a RPG, nor is Super Mario Bros, and no matter how subjective you claim you are, you will still sound ridicilous if you try tell anyone that Quake is a RPG.
The games simply lack to many game-characteristics associated to the RPG genre, that is a FACT, and not something that is open to subjective debate.
You might try wiggling out of it by claiming that all games where you step into the role of a character are RPG games, but then you just end up with such a meaningless term where you can call Portal a RPG game, and by then you really should question yourself:
Why go to all that trouble when it really doesn't matter if a game you are enjoying is a rpg or not?
The point of the comment is that both what a RPG is and what a good game is are both subjective. But trying to expressing your opinion based on some arbitrary principles (such as what an RPG is)in an attempt to give it authority is what's arrogant. Much akin to someone attempting to claim that he speaks to "anyfucking one P&PRPG player".
Personally, I couldn't care less what Erickson think about FFXIII when he could be spending those time making games that can finally live up to the standards set by Baldur's Gate series and Planescape Torment? Developers should speak through their games, because that's where we should listen.
And Fallout 3 isn't an RPG either, if anybody hasn't noticed.
Fallout 3 is an RPG. 1)create a character 2)choices that have impact on the character and the world around him/her that affects the ending 3)tons of customization (stats/mechanic/looks) 4)nonlinear gameplay.
you just don't know what an RPG is.
You don't need character creation for a game to be an RPG!
And normally you live the JRPG chars more than any western RPG protagonist, since the story brings you much closer to them, to a degree that you char the chars joy and sorrow also the music is much better.
Which dont make it RPG in the slightest aspect. Touching movie perhaps, but not a RPG. Not even a game...
If that is "your" opinion OK, mine differs.
No you don't, but you need something that makes it more than a linear stream of cutscenes and fights, where you're only actions that matter is if you kill the enemies or not.
If you don't, and still insist on calling it a RPG, what's stopping you from calling for example Halo a RPG? You just end up with a meaningless term that you watered down so much that it's useless just so that you could label your chosen game a RPG even though it lack pretty much any element that's usually associated with role-playing.
I like both so fuck him...
People have been arguing about the definition of "RPG" for over 10 years now. It's pretty much a GameFAQs level topic.
In the end, "RPG" means whatever the commonly accepted definition means. Getting hung up over the meaning of the term is about the kind of wanky thing I'd expect from a developer who thinks that providing the player with exactly two choices in every situation, sainthood and puppy kicking, somehow lets them "role play".
Agree that FF13 is not an "rpg" by standards but for different reasons. I can play the role of a character and to some extent I am role playing if the game immerses me enough to forget everything around me.
There is a simple explanation:
JRPG = Playing the "Role" of a pre-designed character with their own plot. The player can take on the role of "the Protagonist" of a story.
Western RPG = Playing the "Role" of an avatar of your own making in a somewhat open-ended plot. The player gets to make their own protagonist to the story.
Clearly, the definition of what an RPG is totally different depending on the culture, so that's why they implemented the term "JRPG" to specify it.
Comparing RPGs and JRPGs are like comparing oranges and limes. Even though they are both citrus, they're really not that similar.
mass effect isn't a rpg either, its a shitty 3rd person shooter. Bioware are idiots
Did this game really suck that bad?
yep
I actually liked the game. I just think that people seem to feel strongly about it either way, moreso than any game I can think of in recent memory.
(IMO, the love/hate for this game is starting to approach console war proportions. That's just me, though.)
It's still better than your average RPG/JRPG, but probably the worst FF in the series.
I'm pretty sure I can beat almost any action game by mashing one button. Or shooting game... or rpg... Wait I'm seeing a trend here.
I disagree. FFXIII has customisation and development like RPGs demand. He obviously has a problem with the fact that you can't create your own unique character from the beginning, instead playing the role of a canon character in a pre-destined storyline. Who gives a fuck? You are still playing the role of a character and you do live the character as much as you can in a video game, through expansion and equipping.
This is just the age-old W-RPG vs. J-RPG retardfight. J-RPGs have been like this since the beginning.
By that definition none of the FF's have been RPG's.
I have FF13, and its not so bad but I think that it needs a lot more to be like other rpgs, I like old rpgs like PS1 breath of fire, chrono cross, saga frontier, xenogears etc, and with new generation to play rpgs you need to get a nintendo ds, xbox never had a good rpg and it wont change and ps3 isn´t working hard on this, everything is action and shooter games, and pay $50 for a 3 hours game it´s a waste, at least any FF will keep you busy for more than 20 hours and if you are a real gamer you´´ll get 100% leading you to more than 60 hours, like tales of... anyway a real gamer would play everything and wont cry with every crappy game they mess with, play it or not, its your choice, anyway FF13 is way better than FFX-2(or final fashion like we call it) and I´d play them a few times as I´m a gamer, FF12 is a good rpg it has everything that an rpg needs but people does not like it because you can´t press one key to give 3 jumps in the air and unleash a 40 hits killing combo, my point is that most people sucks on every game so they need a full easy and fashion game, the kind of game that says don´t think just press this and the mess will start by it´s own, it because of this that rpgs are getting worst.
bioware can go fuck off. i like my ff13. i like my linear game. look at me having fun while STILL not comming anywhere near any game that has the word bioware on it. fuck off fuck off fuck off.
RPG's are about character driven games , not gameplay styles . Somehow some game developers haven't understood that yet and insist on calling some RPGs "real RPG's" .
That's funny. I don't call what Bioware makes RPGs either.
As far as creating your own character goes? Lightning and her crew of L'Cie or whatever they are called are the only people who can accomplish their mission.
Going further, who other than Frodo could have accomplished the destruction of the One Ring?
Creating your own character will always, without exception, detach them from the story to one degree or another. If they can be detached from it, then they are not important to the story. The story just happens around them.
Who gives a fuck! Stop bitching about other games and make your games fuckin decent. I'm sick of easy games. I remember when I was a kid I had to cheat, like go on gamewinners or force my pops to help me out.