A writer who opines that otaku cannot write romances as they are sad and lonely creatures with no experience of such has predictably stirred up a storm of controversy amongst sad and lonely otaku.
He holds forth:
“Previously I told otaku to get real and have relationships with real girls, and received a great many dissenting opinions.
They said ‘Real girls cry and moan all the time and betray you on a whim, and are totally spoiled. 2D girls are sweet and lovely, far more so than any real girl.’
Indeed, the girls in those games are idealised.
But what if we look at this from a creator’s perspective? There’s no way a creator who inhabits a virtual world can make these kinds of games, as the games include the creator’s experience of real romance.
Even if they could make a decent game without such experience, they’d never be able to make anything new.”
2ch is unimpressed:
“If you know the real thing you can’t make games and the like.”
“He’s underestimating the imaginative power of virgins.”
“Are there still idiots saying that? I suppose you can’t make an RPG if you haven’t been an adventurer.”
“A commoner has no qualifications to talk about otaku.”
“So only a porn star can become an ero-mangaka?”
“Real romance is no good anyway – it needs to be fantastic.”
“Eating a bento on a school roof with a girl isn’t exactly a realistic event.”
“Otaku writing romances results in impossible fantasies. Romance may be a fantasy to begin with, but their version is even further removed from reality.”
“So Konami must employ world class lovers…”
“Lucky Star: There aren’t any high school girls like this. The conversation is totally unrealistic.
Haruhi: There aren’t any school clubs like this. The characters are totally unrealistic.
K-ON!: The conversations are based on convenience and so are totally unrealistic.”
“Most of you people can’t become creators anyway, so it’s got nothing to do with you.”
“Quoting Hayao Miyazaki: ‘Most Japanese animation isn’t really based on observation, as the guys doing it don’t like observing people. As a result, the industry is nothing but otaku.’”
“A product intended for virgins might as well be made by virgins.”
Saijaku Muhai no Bahamut “Dragons & Mechs?”
Monster Hunter X Megaman Event Profusely Blue
Love Live! Sunshine!! MV “Will Brighten Up Your Day!”
Top 10 Best Anime Girls of 2015
Hai to Gensou no Grimgar “Has Oppai!”
Picking Up Japan Express Vol. 36 Worth a Pickup
Dimension W Out Of This World
Odin Sphere: Leifthrasir PV Certainly Nostalgic
One-Punch Man Soundtrack PV Packs A Wallop
XmasTrickStar “A White Christmas Indeed…”
Wo-Class Carrier Ero-MMD In Dire Straights
Voice Translation Tool Promotional Video “Inexcusable!”
Luck & Logic Far From Lucky
Yandere Simulator Possibly Headed to Kickstarter
Top 20 Recent Anime Most In Need Of A Sequel
Hyrule Warriors Legends PV Clashes Interminably
Akagami no Shirayukihime English Dub Surfaces
Koukaku no Pandora Really Opens That Box
Gate Season 2 Darker Than Ever
Super Sweet Sonico Bikini Figure
Delectable Dizzy Cosplay by Lechat
Dark Elf Cosplay by Non Very Dark Indeed
Titillating Tamako Cosplay Perfectly Pink
Goddess of 2ch: “Full of Lust & Urges (& Also Videos)!”
Raunchy Reisen Inaba Cosplay by Tsuyato
Haruhi Bunny Girl Cosplay Rocks Out
Youmu Ero-Cosplay by Madoka Adachi Deadly Sexy
Comiket 89 Cosplay Sickeningly Sweet
Comiket 89 Cosplay A Guilty Pleasure
Comiket 89 Cosplay Ceaselessly Sexy
Beethoven was deaf after all.
Woah guy, I don't know why you're so hostile.
I'd rather have 3D since I'd want someone who has their own opinions, not pre-programed ones.
Maybe it's just me since I'm a girl, but I kinda think he's right.
Trying to make a school life romance game and having no real romance to think of, it's kinda ironic.
Oh well, an Otaku can dream can't he.
I guess loli/shotacon artists are really pedophiles, and yuri/yaoi people are transgendered.
Ether Otaku's read to much Hentai stories to realize that Japanese women only have sex with men that make 60,000 a year <.<?
that is retarded.. by the same standard people shouldn't be allowed to right about anime in space unless they've been to space :eyeroll:
I beg to differ. Otakus can write romances. I myself write romantic fan-fictions for Eureka Seven.
The Kama Sutra was written by a virgin. I've had plenty of sex and I still feel that realism has no place in hentai.
Do math sir 60,000 a year = ~$650 year (i.e. slave wages)
60,000 a month sounds more likely although that is still slave wages. Maybe you should add an extra 0 or two?
600,000Y a year = $65,000
Diane Warren. That woman wrote just about every top-10 pop-hit since the 1980s. She's a lonely virgin who's never had a relationship - all she does is write virtually guaranteed hit songs all day.
But I guess if this idiot is to be believed, lonely virgins can't produce romance because they've never experienced it. Tell that to the tsunami of Benjamins she surfs on top of to get to the grocery store.
Romance, be it manga or songs or movies, thrives not on experience, but upon longing. Its not what people have, but what they want, and art that resonates and fulfills those desires will sell well, regardless of who makes it. Also, the very nature of the genre itself doesn't lend itself to much variation, so that has nothing to do with the level of experience a writer has.
Spare me this BS. Is there sauce\more of the OP picture?
Wow. That's just ignorant. I haven’t played many games where I was thinking ‘Yup, that’s reality’ How many times I’ve opened my door, walked towards the mailbox, avoided the traps with my 40 dexterity, fought off the dragon, only by the skin of my teeth and a lucky health pot, then reached the mailbox to find a sexy, barely armored chick to hand me my message.
Yup. Sure a good thing we live fantasy so we can write\draw\produce it.
Now I think I’ll go shower and accidentally catch a cat girl in there fully spread and decide
A.) say hello
B.) ask Who are you?
C.) whip out my boner
D.) run screaing back to my room with a bloody nose and red face
It's a silly criticism because the creator needn't necessarily be aiming for reality.
But if you wanted to write a realistic romance, that could honest to God happen on earth, then real experience is pretty much a given.
Wow. That's just ignorant. I haven’t played many games where I was thinking ‘Yup, that’s reality’ How many times I’ve opened my door, walked towards the mailbox, avoided the traps with my 40 dexterity, fought off the dragon, only by the skin of my teeth and a lucky health pot, then reached the mailbox ot find a sexy, barely armored chick to hand me my message.
Yup. Sure a good thing we live fantasy so we can write\draw\produce it.
Now I think I’ll go shower and accidentally catch a cat girl in there fully spread and decide
A.) say hello
B.) ask Who are you?
C.) whip out my boner
Yes...i am ignorant too. That is why I double post almost the same thing. Awesome. And hey, even forgot D.) in the second post. D for double ignoarance? Sweet. But as dumb as I am, I think my point is valid.
“Real romance is no good anyway – it needs to be fantastic.”
QFT
“Eating a bento on a school roof with a girl isn’t exactly a realistic event.”
Awww.
I can't say that I've watched a lot of Japanese live-action footage, but in the ones I've seen, there haven't been any attractive school girls. They might be pretty, but they aren't girls I'd be dying to date. Maybe I missed my chance and they were better in the 60's.
only a virgin would say such stupid stuff, the only people they can write for are other virgins and that's where the problem dwells. Newer ero is so lacking in any realism or emotion, both key to connecting with an audience of real people.
Real world is overrated
Actually not even, no.
But real-worlders still insist we should share their shit and the low benefits it brings back.
Even when we found our own way to contribute to society (already not so bad in a society that creates more population than it can make work.)
Oh, we don't give a fuck if you don't want to share our 'real-world shit' (and do you have any idea how pathetic that just made you sound?). It's when you start saying "2D >>> 3D, 3D DISGUSTING PIGS!" as if your pathetic imaginary world is better than the actual, real world you're living in.
You don't want to share in our "real world"? Fine. Do all of us a favor and go shoot yourself in the head.
> Oh, we don't give a fuck if you don't want to share our 'real-world shit'
Says you, but you're a lone wolf on it. Fact is, real-worlders just can't mind their own business and accept cultural difference. Be it otakus or whatever isn't their lifestyle. When pissed off enough, they start wars for it.
> (and do you have any idea how pathetic that just made you sound?)
Aside by the fact that your quotation quoted only your imagination, yeah I know how pathetic I sound to arrogant tools when I state facts in a very short manner. It so happens that I am a pathetic being, so I don't care so much on what grounds I'm labeled such.
> It's when you start saying "2D >>> 3D, 3D DISGUSTING PIGS!"
Guess you have a point here, I so happen to not label 3D as disgusting pigs, just not satisfying.
> as if your pathetic imaginary world is better than the actual, real world you're living in.
It is. BTW, you label it pathetic because it is imaginary, so note the redundant repetition.
> Do all of us a favor and go shoot yourself in the head.
That would actually only be a very insignificant profit to most, an insignificant loss of profit to the world, a significant loss of profit to about a thousand, a catastrophe to a few, and a major spoil of life to like 5 persons. Not much of a favor.
And no I don't want to share in your beloved real world. But it is the fabric that holds my life and the 2D I like to live in, so as I want to go on with 2D I have to accept 3D to some extent.
Another pathetic excuse made by those japanese writers (must be backed by the goverment)
to decrease the number of otakus.
They still didnt know that those otaku is one of the highest contributing number on economy especially on games and electronic equipment.
The miyazaki quote was epic. And stories based on real life are usually boring... It's all about fiction =Q
Yeah, it's pretty much postmodernism at it's paramount. Otaku culture now refers exclusively to otaku culture. I think that's where the discontent come from creators i.e. everything's rather homogeneous and isolated
tl;dr I justify the money I spend on a liberal arts degree
But the Kojika mangaka is a woman... ^_^
Well, the responses actually enlights the fact why pornography and modern erotica is commonly so f*ng boring. If I would think what you can learn from pornography, I would say that all the American women seem to suffer from tourettes when aroused (never been much in to that) as they also wish to have sex in order from blowjob to vaginal sex (to anal sex) and finally to cumshot. From japanese you can learn that everything that is blurred, and is not a vagina, is atleast fallinc, if not penises. And also that women don't really have vaginas; they only have blurs, black squares, white stripes or just simply no vagina at all. Also, observe: as a "romance" (in case of a virgin) I see sex or something bound to lead to it in short perioid.
Then again, this also explain why Japanese do draw much more erotic art (drawn by virgins apparently), since it saves you hell a lot of trouble of learning to actually draw a vagina, rather than just "censor" it.
O_o by what you said you imply that you know pretty much every porn in america.
guess i just overrated your comment.
Hmm probably i should try making some story then to prove that the research was totally wrong?
Real life drama and relationships are boring.
The less experience one has with the particular subject, the more likely they are to take a shot in the dark towards originality. If the experience is had, the shot is normally taken in the direction that's already been taken a thousand times already.
That's not to say experience won't help produce a better description as to what's happening between characters, but it does guarantee influences in setting and plot guided by said experience. This can only mean it'll probably be a droll, overdone plot, but with a great narrative.
Obviously written by someone who hasn't been in a real, working relationship.
Hey, it's one of the ironies of writing that:
1. Virgins write the hottest sex scenes
2. Soliders write terrible war stories...
----Got 2 from Heinlien---
3. Romance novels can be set in "Piracy in the age of Scurvy" and nobody knows the difference as long as the fantasy of Fabio dressed as a romantic image of a pirate holding the women on a strangely fresh smelling pirate ship is written properly.
You see, there isn't that much demand for "Real Life" even in fiction that is supposedly set in the real world. It's simply an issue with the "Suspension of Disbelief".
Case in point: The "Fantasy/Sci-Fi" in Anime and Manga....
Most of it's way far out, I could go on for days. It makes "Of thud and blunder" poorly written hack fiction look positively fully researched. http://www.sfwa.org/2005/01/on-thud-and-blunder/
Like Cloud Strife's sword in Final Fantasy. No way would he be able to use something like that, high strength or not. And countless other giant weapons.
Anime character's ability to jump super high.
Most Anime/Manga magic systems. So non-thought out, it's painful to try to grasp them. Most seemingly just made up as they went along. Others with so many holes that could be used, you wonder why things were done that way in the first place.
Well, anyways, I could go on and on, but frankly I won't. It'd seem like I was bashing Anime/Manga. For the most part, I like the shows a lot. You need to turn up the "Suspension of disbelief" a lot, but since they also tend to be good stories with characters that often latch onto people, they work well and sell well.
You see "Reality" and what sells in "Fiction" are two seperate big horny dolphins.
Case in point: The USA's 9/11.
Try selling it as a work of fiction before it actually happened.
Elements:
1. Conspiracy of 'satanist' leaders in a long cabal that goes back at least to the faked incident that triggered the USA's involvement in WW1.
2. Towers that due to modern technology (the fax machine, Internet) were no longer necessary and were making allegedly less money than it cost to maintain them but also due to laws passed just after construction (asbestos) would have cost more to tear down legally than they did to build.
3. A staged power grab using the media -also owned by the #1 characters- that hyped up 9/11 and a complacent bought and controlled congress signed without reading a bill that destroyed the constitution...
Just what happened, backed up by what really happened.
Imagine trying to "Sell" it to a magazine/book publisher if you could go back in time...
They'd probably want you to put a nuclear device on the plane and have the president hiring assassins to kill people who 'exposed the truth' rather than just ignoring it because the real government won't behave as it should. Why didn't da Fuzz just "Follow the money" and charge those who benefited the most, like they do when a rich guy is about to disown his wastrel ungrateful sun, but then dies mysteriously and his son is partying instead of going to his funeral? They'd find the faked elections and govt ignorance of massive protests and overall public apathy over such issues to be unbelievable.
So, let's see, for REAL stuff, try selling a "Sex" scene:
"I don't really remember that well. Hope I didn't fall asleep on her. Was mostly just rubbing my dick in her while she lay there. We were both really drunk. I did vomit on her in bed, at least that's what she said and there was puke all over when I woke up with a headache. Later she said I raped her and I got arrested. That cost me a lot for the lawyer, but then she dropped the charges since I'd claimed to be a member of a very rich family, but that was just a load of bullshit to stick my dick in her."
Or, a war story...
"We sat down and more or less jacked off for 6 months, "The waiting is the hardest part" as that song goes. Worked on my "Fantasy" muscle really good 'cause they wouldn't let us take porno pics or booze in that raghead country. The only 'enemy' we saw was our CO who had the brains of a houseplant and a sadistic streak, so we mostly hid from him. We were considering fragging him, but his CO anticipated it and gave him a talk but then told us if he had an 'accident' he'd send an even worse shithead to boss us around. No casualties except for Specialist ---- who got something that's like the clap but isn't the clap cause penicillin don't cure it..."
Those are both real stories, but I've changed things a bit not wanting to identify my RL self or embarrass some buddies of mine. I think if either were turned into novels they'd be very good literature, taking a good hard look at mankind. And they'd sell like shit.
If real life suck so much for you, please, go kill yourself.
Real life -for most of the NORMAL people- is way more exiting to the next boring PS3 game.
RL sucks. If you don't know that, then you suck. But enjoy your pointless, mundane existance.
Your 2D world sucks. If you don't know that, then you suck. But enjoy your (REAL) pointless existence.
People thinking life does not suck are usually rather stupid, I noticed. But I envy them all the same.
Now it so happens it would be cruel of me to kill myself. It'd make some other people's lives worse, financially for some, psychologically for most.
Besides, I don't deny there are those moments of pure joy sometimes. It's mostly, that life sucks.
Counties will take care of burial if your family can't afford. And people are supposed to care about you to begin with to suffer psychologically. C:
What can I say, just don't believe me.
I didn't say RL was suck for me, I just pointed out it's "Reality" when it conflicts with "Fiction" even fictions that are supposedly "Real". Most reality shows, btw, are more scripted and rehearsed (even the contests and winners/losers) than most ballet.
The "normal" people are "Sheep" and "Slaves" by other standards. And they don't like their lives either as evidenced by the perfect webs of misery and self-destruction they place around themselves. I see it in how they drive, subconsciously hoping someone will hit them or they'll hit somebody, just wanting that bit of excitement in their lives.
Besides, there are many people who pretend to be "Normal" as camouflage, but aren't.
"Sheep" and "slaves"??? Are you fucking kidding me? I'll tell you who the "sheep" and "slaves" are: people who spend most of their time being fed crap shit by anime companies and devouring every little loli, ero and moe garbage that comes out of the woodwork. People who immediately go "3DPD", "Women =/= vultures" because that's what their otaku group and sites like this perpetuate.
And you're calling us normal people "sheep" and "slaves"? We've moved this world in steps you can't even start to imagine.
In short, go kill yourself. You too, Miroku74.
That, and so they can try getting rich suing anyone involved in said accident.
yep, that,s my to,do list!
On topic: A virgin indeed can write interesting eromanga... As long as it is fresh and interesting, I don't see the problem.
On the comment about women:
This is so awkward. Everywhere I read on this site, I hear things like "women are spoiled, make a lot of noise and want a lot of money from you" when I and none of my female friends are not like that. The commentors on this site are not doing much to make a good impression of the otakus, at least the male ones.
It's been long "Western Wisdom" that:
1. Virgins write the best "Sex Scenes".
2. Soldiers write terrible (and I mean unsellable) war stories.
To write a good story it has more to do with your writing skill than life experience, anybody with good enough writing skills can write a book. Even if you're stuck in a cage your whole life, you can still write about how it sucks to be stuck in a cage.
It's true that with more life experience you can appeal better to your readers, but if you are writing for otokus you can just write with your otaku knowledge.
This writer seems to have never been in a cult book store, do you how creative those people are and how much worse than otakus they are?
No offense to anyone, but I am otaku. I am also happily married with a great sex life. My wife is also otaku to some extent. Just because people enjoy anime doesn't mean they're lonely or sexless or anything else. :) Sometimes this site is as silly as 2chan in it's insularity.
Mind the possible gap between what otaku means to you and what it means in Japanese.
A married otaku would be someone who happens to share an apartment and bed with a person of opposite sex and not derive much from this fact, too much occupied with dedicating his life with work and anime/manga/videogames. Don't go arguing with me on this, it's what the word freaking *means*.
"But what if we look at this from a creator’s perspective? There’s no way a creator who inhabits a virtual world can make these kinds of games, as the games include the creator’s experience of real romance."
Does anybody else remember that time when ZAFT stole all of those GUNDAMs and some teenager ruined all of their plans? I mean, someone must have experienced that to write it.
Win. Truth hurts. Get over it.
^ Agree. Stop with girly twigligh fanfics and read REAL literature.
Now, what is the definition of 'romance' that these people are using? The fact is that most 'romances' in the real world today are two people getting together, finding that they like having sex together, and staying in a relationship.
There isn't much of the old time 'courtship' stuff going on today.
few things I like to point out
1. "I smell contradictions"
It doesn't matter when it comes to experiences, touch and feel etc. far as I know in a big "what If?" situation if a guy who's been a succesful writer all the way from when he was a kid to the end of his high school year and writes an erotica she loves it and then boom!
but enough of my rambling
If you can imagine it with a girl of the most amazing detail and character if it's 2D to 3D conversion n' whatnot
In short
Imagination is a great gift it's like a brain don't waste it.