“Otaku Creators Can’t Possibly Write Romances”

virgin-ero-mangaka

A writer who opines that otaku cannot write romances as they are sad and lonely creatures with no experience of such has predictably stirred up a storm of controversy amongst sad and lonely otaku.

He holds forth:

“Previously I told otaku to get real and have relationships with real girls, and received a great many dissenting opinions.

They said ‘Real girls cry and moan all the time and betray you on a whim, and are totally spoiled. 2D girls are sweet and lovely, far more so than any real girl.’

Indeed, the girls in those games are idealised.

But what if we look at this from a creator’s perspective? There’s no way a creator who inhabits a virtual world can make these kinds of games, as the games include the creator’s experience of real romance.

Even if they could make a decent game without such experience, they’d never be able to make anything new.”

2ch is unimpressed:

“If you know the real thing you can’t make games and the like.”

“He’s underestimating the imaginative power of virgins.”

“Are there still idiots saying that? I suppose you can’t make an RPG if you haven’t been an adventurer.”

“A commoner has no qualifications to talk about otaku.”

“So only a porn star can become an ero-mangaka?”

“Real romance is no good anyway – it needs to be fantastic.”

“Eating a bento on a school roof with a girl isn’t exactly a realistic event.”

“Otaku writing romances results in impossible fantasies. Romance may be a fantasy to begin with, but their version is even further removed from reality.”

“So Konami must employ world class lovers…”

“Lucky Star: There aren’t any high school girls like this. The conversation is totally unrealistic.

Haruhi: There aren’t any school clubs like this. The characters are totally unrealistic.

K-ON!: The conversations are based on convenience and so are totally unrealistic.”

“Most of you people can’t become creators anyway, so it’s got nothing to do with you.”

“Quoting Hayao Miyazaki: ‘Most Japanese animation isn’t really based on observation, as the guys doing it don’t like observing people. As a result, the industry is nothing but otaku.’”

“A product intended for virgins might as well be made by virgins.”

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197 Comments

  • Anonymous says:

    On topic: A virgin indeed can write interesting eromanga… As long as it is fresh and interesting, I don’t see the problem.

    On the comment about women:

    This is so awkward. Everywhere I read on this site, I hear things like “women are spoiled, make a lot of noise and want a lot of money from you” when I and none of my female friends are not like that. The commentors on this site are not doing much to make a good impression of the otakus, at least the male ones.

  • Anonymous says:

    To write a good story it has more to do with your writing skill than life experience, anybody with good enough writing skills can write a book. Even if you’re stuck in a cage your whole life, you can still write about how it sucks to be stuck in a cage.

    It’s true that with more life experience you can appeal better to your readers, but if you are writing for otokus you can just write with your otaku knowledge.

    This writer seems to have never been in a cult book store, do you how creative those people are and how much worse than otakus they are?

  • Anonymous says:

    No offense to anyone, but I am otaku. I am also happily married with a great sex life. My wife is also otaku to some extent. Just because people enjoy anime doesn’t mean they’re lonely or sexless or anything else. 🙂 Sometimes this site is as silly as 2chan in it’s insularity.

    • Anonymous says:

      Mind the possible gap between what otaku means to you and what it means in Japanese.
      A married otaku would be someone who happens to share an apartment and bed with a person of opposite sex and not derive much from this fact, too much occupied with dedicating his life with work and anime/manga/videogames. Don’t go arguing with me on this, it’s what the word freaking *means*.

  • Anonymous says:

    “But what if we look at this from a creator’s perspective? There’s no way a creator who inhabits a virtual world can make these kinds of games, as the games include the creator’s experience of real romance.”

    Does anybody else remember that time when ZAFT stole all of those GUNDAMs and some teenager ruined all of their plans? I mean, someone must have experienced that to write it.

  • Anonymous says:

    Now, what is the definition of ‘romance’ that these people are using? The fact is that most ‘romances’ in the real world today are two people getting together, finding that they like having sex together, and staying in a relationship.

    There isn’t much of the old time ‘courtship’ stuff going on today.

  • few things I like to point out
    1. “I smell contradictions”
    It doesn’t matter when it comes to experiences, touch and feel etc. far as I know in a big “what If?” situation if a guy who’s been a succesful writer all the way from when he was a kid to the end of his high school year and writes an erotica she loves it and then boom!

    but enough of my rambling
    If you can imagine it with a girl of the most amazing detail and character if it’s 2D to 3D conversion n’ whatnot

    In short
    Imagination is a great gift it’s like a brain don’t waste it.

  • Anonymous says:

    I’d rather have 3D since I’d want someone who has their own opinions, not pre-programed ones.
    Maybe it’s just me since I’m a girl, but I kinda think he’s right.
    Trying to make a school life romance game and having no real romance to think of, it’s kinda ironic.
    Oh well, an Otaku can dream can’t he.

  • Anonymous says:

    Diane Warren. That woman wrote just about every top-10 pop-hit since the 1980s. She’s a lonely virgin who’s never had a relationship – all she does is write virtually guaranteed hit songs all day.

    But I guess if this idiot is to be believed, lonely virgins can’t produce romance because they’ve never experienced it. Tell that to the tsunami of Benjamins she surfs on top of to get to the grocery store.

    Romance, be it manga or songs or movies, thrives not on experience, but upon longing. Its not what people have, but what they want, and art that resonates and fulfills those desires will sell well, regardless of who makes it. Also, the very nature of the genre itself doesn’t lend itself to much variation, so that has nothing to do with the level of experience a writer has.

  • Anonymous says:

    Well, the responses actually enlights the fact why pornography and modern erotica is commonly so f*ng boring. If I would think what you can learn from pornography, I would say that all the American women seem to suffer from tourettes when aroused (never been much in to that) as they also wish to have sex in order from blowjob to vaginal sex (to anal sex) and finally to cumshot. From japanese you can learn that everything that is blurred, and is not a vagina, is atleast fallinc, if not penises. And also that women don’t really have vaginas; they only have blurs, black squares, white stripes or just simply no vagina at all. Also, observe: as a “romance” (in case of a virgin) I see sex or something bound to lead to it in short perioid.

    Then again, this also explain why Japanese do draw much more erotic art (drawn by virgins apparently), since it saves you hell a lot of trouble of learning to actually draw a vagina, rather than just “censor” it.

  • Barbarian of Gor says:

    Hey, it’s one of the ironies of writing that:

    1. Virgins write the hottest sex scenes
    2. Soliders write terrible war stories…
    —-Got 2 from Heinlien—

    3. Romance novels can be set in “Piracy in the age of Scurvy” and nobody knows the difference as long as the fantasy of Fabio dressed as a romantic image of a pirate holding the women on a strangely fresh smelling pirate ship is written properly.

    You see, there isn’t that much demand for “Real Life” even in fiction that is supposedly set in the real world. It’s simply an issue with the “Suspension of Disbelief”.

    Case in point: The “Fantasy/Sci-Fi” in Anime and Manga….

    Most of it’s way far out, I could go on for days. It makes “Of thud and blunder” poorly written hack fiction look positively fully researched. http://www.sfwa.org/2005/01/on-thud-and-blunder/

    Like Cloud Strife’s sword in Final Fantasy. No way would he be able to use something like that, high strength or not. And countless other giant weapons.

    Anime character’s ability to jump super high.

    Most Anime/Manga magic systems. So non-thought out, it’s painful to try to grasp them. Most seemingly just made up as they went along. Others with so many holes that could be used, you wonder why things were done that way in the first place.

    Well, anyways, I could go on and on, but frankly I won’t. It’d seem like I was bashing Anime/Manga. For the most part, I like the shows a lot. You need to turn up the “Suspension of disbelief” a lot, but since they also tend to be good stories with characters that often latch onto people, they work well and sell well.

    You see “Reality” and what sells in “Fiction” are two seperate big horny dolphins.

    Case in point: The USA’s 9/11.

    Try selling it as a work of fiction before it actually happened.
    Elements:
    1. Conspiracy of ‘satanist’ leaders in a long cabal that goes back at least to the faked incident that triggered the USA’s involvement in WW1.
    2. Towers that due to modern technology (the fax machine, Internet) were no longer necessary and were making allegedly less money than it cost to maintain them but also due to laws passed just after construction (asbestos) would have cost more to tear down legally than they did to build.
    3. A staged power grab using the media -also owned by the #1 characters- that hyped up 9/11 and a complacent bought and controlled congress signed without reading a bill that destroyed the constitution…

    Just what happened, backed up by what really happened.

    Imagine trying to “Sell” it to a magazine/book publisher if you could go back in time…

    They’d probably want you to put a nuclear device on the plane and have the president hiring assassins to kill people who ‘exposed the truth’ rather than just ignoring it because the real government won’t behave as it should. Why didn’t da Fuzz just “Follow the money” and charge those who benefited the most, like they do when a rich guy is about to disown his wastrel ungrateful sun, but then dies mysteriously and his son is partying instead of going to his funeral? They’d find the faked elections and govt ignorance of massive protests and overall public apathy over such issues to be unbelievable.

    So, let’s see, for REAL stuff, try selling a “Sex” scene:

    “I don’t really remember that well. Hope I didn’t fall asleep on her. Was mostly just rubbing my dick in her while she lay there. We were both really drunk. I did vomit on her in bed, at least that’s what she said and there was puke all over when I woke up with a headache. Later she said I raped her and I got arrested. That cost me a lot for the lawyer, but then she dropped the charges since I’d claimed to be a member of a very rich family, but that was just a load of bullshit to stick my dick in her.”

    Or, a war story…

    “We sat down and more or less jacked off for 6 months, “The waiting is the hardest part” as that song goes. Worked on my “Fantasy” muscle really good ’cause they wouldn’t let us take porno pics or booze in that raghead country. The only ‘enemy’ we saw was our CO who had the brains of a houseplant and a sadistic streak, so we mostly hid from him. We were considering fragging him, but his CO anticipated it and gave him a talk but then told us if he had an ‘accident’ he’d send an even worse shithead to boss us around. No casualties except for Specialist —- who got something that’s like the clap but isn’t the clap cause penicillin don’t cure it…”

    Those are both real stories, but I’ve changed things a bit not wanting to identify my RL self or embarrass some buddies of mine. I think if either were turned into novels they’d be very good literature, taking a good hard look at mankind. And they’d sell like shit.

      • Anonymous says:

        People thinking life does not suck are usually rather stupid, I noticed. But I envy them all the same.

        Now it so happens it would be cruel of me to kill myself. It’d make some other people’s lives worse, financially for some, psychologically for most.
        Besides, I don’t deny there are those moments of pure joy sometimes. It’s mostly, that life sucks.

      • Barbarian of Gor says:

        I didn’t say RL was suck for me, I just pointed out it’s “Reality” when it conflicts with “Fiction” even fictions that are supposedly “Real”. Most reality shows, btw, are more scripted and rehearsed (even the contests and winners/losers) than most ballet.

        The “normal” people are “Sheep” and “Slaves” by other standards. And they don’t like their lives either as evidenced by the perfect webs of misery and self-destruction they place around themselves. I see it in how they drive, subconsciously hoping someone will hit them or they’ll hit somebody, just wanting that bit of excitement in their lives.

        Besides, there are many people who pretend to be “Normal” as camouflage, but aren’t.

        • Anonymous says:

          “Sheep” and “slaves”??? Are you fucking kidding me? I’ll tell you who the “sheep” and “slaves” are: people who spend most of their time being fed crap shit by anime companies and devouring every little loli, ero and moe garbage that comes out of the woodwork. People who immediately go “3DPD”, “Women =/= vultures” because that’s what their otaku group and sites like this perpetuate.

          And you’re calling us normal people “sheep” and “slaves”? We’ve moved this world in steps you can’t even start to imagine.

          In short, go kill yourself. You too, Miroku74.

        • The “normal” people are “Sheep” and “Slaves” by other standards. And they don’t like their lives either as evidenced by the perfect webs of misery and self-destruction they place around themselves. I see it in how they drive, subconsciously hoping someone will hit them or they’ll hit somebody, just wanting that bit of excitement in their lives.

          That, and so they can try getting rich suing anyone involved in said accident.

  • Anonymous says:

    Real life drama and relationships are boring.

    The less experience one has with the particular subject, the more likely they are to take a shot in the dark towards originality. If the experience is had, the shot is normally taken in the direction that’s already been taken a thousand times already.

    That’s not to say experience won’t help produce a better description as to what’s happening between characters, but it does guarantee influences in setting and plot guided by said experience. This can only mean it’ll probably be a droll, overdone plot, but with a great narrative.

    • Anonymous says:

      Yeah, it’s pretty much postmodernism at it’s paramount. Otaku culture now refers exclusively to otaku culture. I think that’s where the discontent come from creators i.e. everything’s rather homogeneous and isolated

      tl;dr I justify the money I spend on a liberal arts degree

  • “Real romance is no good anyway – it needs to be fantastic.”

    QFT

    “Eating a bento on a school roof with a girl isn’t exactly a realistic event.”

    Awww.

    I can’t say that I’ve watched a lot of Japanese live-action footage, but in the ones I’ve seen, there haven’t been any attractive school girls. They might be pretty, but they aren’t girls I’d be dying to date. Maybe I missed my chance and they were better in the 60’s.

  • Anonymous says:

    Wow. That’s just ignorant. I haven’t played many games where I was thinking ‘Yup, that’s reality’ How many times I’ve opened my door, walked towards the mailbox, avoided the traps with my 40 dexterity, fought off the dragon, only by the skin of my teeth and a lucky health pot, then reached the mailbox ot find a sexy, barely armored chick to hand me my message.

    Yup. Sure a good thing we live fantasy so we can write\draw\produce it.

    Now I think I’ll go shower and accidentally catch a cat girl in there fully spread and decide

    A.) say hello
    B.) ask Who are you?
    C.) whip out my boner

    • Anonymous says:

      Yes…i am ignorant too. That is why I double post almost the same thing. Awesome. And hey, even forgot D.) in the second post. D for double ignoarance? Sweet. But as dumb as I am, I think my point is valid.

  • Anonymous says:

    Wow. That’s just ignorant. I haven’t played many games where I was thinking ‘Yup, that’s reality’ How many times I’ve opened my door, walked towards the mailbox, avoided the traps with my 40 dexterity, fought off the dragon, only by the skin of my teeth and a lucky health pot, then reached the mailbox to find a sexy, barely armored chick to hand me my message.

    Yup. Sure a good thing we live fantasy so we can write\draw\produce it.

    Now I think I’ll go shower and accidentally catch a cat girl in there fully spread and decide

    A.) say hello
    B.) ask Who are you?
    C.) whip out my boner
    D.) run screaing back to my room with a bloody nose and red face

  • Anonymous says:

    It’s a silly criticism because the creator needn’t necessarily be aiming for reality.

    But if you wanted to write a realistic romance, that could honest to God happen on earth, then real experience is pretty much a given.

  • Anonymous says:

    only a virgin would say such stupid stuff, the only people they can write for are other virgins and that’s where the problem dwells. Newer ero is so lacking in any realism or emotion, both key to connecting with an audience of real people.

    • Anonymous says:

      Actually not even, no.

      But real-worlders still insist we should share their shit and the low benefits it brings back.
      Even when we found our own way to contribute to society (already not so bad in a society that creates more population than it can make work.)

      • Anonymous says:

        Oh, we don’t give a fuck if you don’t want to share our ‘real-world shit’ (and do you have any idea how pathetic that just made you sound?). It’s when you start saying “2D >>> 3D, 3D DISGUSTING PIGS!” as if your pathetic imaginary world is better than the actual, real world you’re living in.

        You don’t want to share in our “real world”? Fine. Do all of us a favor and go shoot yourself in the head.

        • Anonymous says:

          > Oh, we don’t give a fuck if you don’t want to share our ‘real-world shit’

          Says you, but you’re a lone wolf on it. Fact is, real-worlders just can’t mind their own business and accept cultural difference. Be it otakus or whatever isn’t their lifestyle. When pissed off enough, they start wars for it.

          > (and do you have any idea how pathetic that just made you sound?)

          Aside by the fact that your quotation quoted only your imagination, yeah I know how pathetic I sound to arrogant tools when I state facts in a very short manner. It so happens that I am a pathetic being, so I don’t care so much on what grounds I’m labeled such.

          > It’s when you start saying “2D >>> 3D, 3D DISGUSTING PIGS!”

          Guess you have a point here, I so happen to not label 3D as disgusting pigs, just not satisfying.

          > as if your pathetic imaginary world is better than the actual, real world you’re living in.

          It is. BTW, you label it pathetic because it is imaginary, so note the redundant repetition.

          > Do all of us a favor and go shoot yourself in the head.

          That would actually only be a very insignificant profit to most, an insignificant loss of profit to the world, a significant loss of profit to about a thousand, a catastrophe to a few, and a major spoil of life to like 5 persons. Not much of a favor.
          And no I don’t want to share in your beloved real world. But it is the fabric that holds my life and the 2D I like to live in, so as I want to go on with 2D I have to accept 3D to some extent.

  • Another pathetic excuse made by those japanese writers (must be backed by the goverment)
    to decrease the number of otakus.

    They still didnt know that those otaku is one of the highest contributing number on economy especially on games and electronic equipment.

  • Anonymous says:

    the misogyny of the otaku both in some of the coments and on 2chan is always hilarious. “women lie, cheat moan all the time”, this coming from the guys who have never had a relationship in their life, nor are they attractive enough to the opposite sex to actually begin a relationship.Whining how how women are not as good as 2d and should try to be more like them is especially funny. women now have to live up to a fantasy. Maybe the otaku should get over the fact that no one is perfect and should accept the faults of others.

    I honestly can’t imagine why somone would choose a computer program over all the fun that a real women offers. social interaction is fun people, and no,pressing a button for a respone in a euro-game doesn’t count.

    also to all the people who say you can write convincing romance stories even if you’ve never been in a relationship, I don’t see how that’s possible when your entire experience comes from reading about something, not living it. It’s different from sci-fi, as that’s a fantasy, but when your trying to write about a reality based thing, ie romance, its better if you actually sort of know what your talking about.

    • Anonymous says:

      For starters, this is 2ch, not 2chan. They ARE different. This could very well be coming from people who have, in fact, had a relation before.

      It’s not just ronery otaku that say these things. I work with lots of people who all have the same thing about women. I’m not married, but those around me who are always tell me, “Never get married. Women are more money, trouble, and effort than they’re actually worth.”

      All my friends have been cheated on and used. Their women have done everything in their power to control their thoughts, motives, money, and how they decide to spend their days.

      Not saying all women are like this, but it’s easy to see why people would withdraw to or stay in their world of perfect fiction, and act bitter towards such people. Try to understand where they’re coming from at least.

      Besides, a lot of woman are the same way towards men. You know what I’m talking about. Human beings are just intolerable in general.

      • Anonymous says:

        And I would bet you a thousand bucks those same people who tell you not to get married will always prefer being with a woman in a real relationship (and take note that I said ‘relationship’,, not necessarily marriage) rather than pretend they’re in a relationship with a 2D character.

  • Pyrolight says:

    “Even if they could make a decent game without such experience, they’d never be able to make anything new.””

    He is talking about ero games right? When was the last time anyone broke from the basic formula?

    Also, if you have never experienced it, how in the hell are you going to be able to appreciate the difference between an experience writer and a virgin one (puns intended)

  • this in-this-article-unnamed writer didn’t really think it through.

    making games, is in many respects similar to writing books, making movies, or any other creative venture of that kind.

    so he’s basically saying that none of the sci-fi, fantasy, murder mystery, thrillers, dramas or pretty much anything else in the last few centuries could be considered ‘good’.

    sorry folks, from here on out, the only thing that will be allowed is biographies and reality shows.

  • A: “Hey dude! I have this REALLY cool idea about this girl in high school and she creates this club and the members include a time-traveller, an alien and an ESPer…”

    B: “FUCK you man, this shit can’t be real, no one gonna read it!”

    A: “How about this other idea I have, this 4 girls, no make it 5, 5 girls in a music club in high school with a real kick-ass teacher”

    B: “Dude, when was the last time you went out? This stuff ain’t happening in real life!”

    A: “Ok ok, hear me out one last time! How about this story about this little girl, she has this really really sad backstory but the point is, she really likes her male homeroom teacher who is like WAAAY older than her and totally clueless about relationships. She just tease him all the time and he doesn’t have a clue what to do!”

    B: “Dude, wtf are you smoking? Are you Chris Handley or something? GTFO!”

    ==========

    Now they wonder why ‘otaku’ stuff are so stagnant and the plots so lame and boring. If everything got blocked right at the start due to these cynics, nothing would ever get started

  • Anonymous says:

    You are forgetting one point. Actually if you’ve been the victim of a crime, if you write a story about crime and violence, it will have much more content than the story of someone who never has experienced something similar.

    Now, for some reason, Hentai has always seemed more realistic than Porn with that ridiculous bunch of actors in scenes unrealistic. Hentai> Porn.

    This means that a virgin with good skills can easily overcome a job not a virgin.

  • Anonymous says:

    I want the source on that manga page. Reminds me of the “what is a lolicon” comic.

    While fiction != reality, I can’t help but think this guy has a point. Ero games are filled with samey nonsense and they’re boring.

    Plus, there’s a differance between writing love stories and writing something fantastic like sci-fi or pirates stories. Love stories are directly about emotion while the others are to a degree about setting.

    • Anonymous says:

      Was kind of my thought too.

      ‘*Real* creators don’t have any imagination at all.’ O-o-o-kaaaaay….

      (Yes, it does come down to either that or ‘do not use imagination at all.’ He’s the one that went absolute.)

  • Anonymous says:

    Doesn’t matter if it’s a work of fiction. Many parts of a story, or a drawing, all needs to have some realism so that people watching/reading can relate.

    But this dude may have overblown it when he put it as if you can’t be competent AT ALL without some firsthand experience. Either that, or the ones who talked back at him took it too seriously(hurt ego, much?).

    It’s not that it’s impossible to be a good romance writer without first hand experience. It’s just more difficult and requires talent.

    Besides, realistic romance is too boring to be dramatic enough to keep readers. It’s an amazing feeling to be in love, but only you yourself and your partner can feel that way. Those who observes you, don’t and won’t.

  • Acording to this logic to create a game like Grand Theft Auto you need to be a top class criminal.

    And as alot of people had alrady said their not looking for the real stuff, because the real stuff is out there if we need it.

  • Anonymous says:

    This is kind of silly. Of course virgins can write about sex and romance. Especially the highly impractical stuff in manga. They have billions of gigabytes of reference material. Unlike someone who wants to write about ancient civilizations or something obscure.

    Of course actual experience wouldn’t hurt them but its more to do with how talented they are as writers.

  • the more you are knowledgeable about something, the more likely you are to be a good “creator” regarding that area or field, so while his comments are not unwarranted, with enough fantasy and imagination, you can get away with anything and since otaku have ample amounts of both, this writer is just saying bullshit.

  • Anonymous says:

    actually one gets the feeling this writer hasn’t done much research on the subject himself

    i don’t know him and i haven’t read anything he’s done
    but one could conclude from history that personal experience has very little to do with writing good romance.

    if you do your homework, some of the writers of the greatest classics of romantic prose and verse were also some of the most depressed, antisocial, and misanthropic people imaginable.

    do you know how many writers wrote incredible depictions of the affairs of men and women, yet there end up being indications that in terms of personal lives those writers were gay?

    literary critics often point to their completely opposite reality as being the fuel for their writings
    causing them to explore that which their personal lives didn’t achieve.

    the reality is many of the greatest artists were exactly the people who could say they lived lives unusual
    not the people that claim they lived the same life as the next guy.

    and while we’re at it, if we were to cite a more modern example, if you’ve ever read modern romance novels and then looked up the authors you’ll find that most romance novel writers are middle-aged or older christian women who’ve been married for 20-30 years

    in short, a far cry from any one that has lived a life of torrid affairs, such as that which is depicted in their novels.

    ultimately this isn’t meant to be a defense of all things otaku, otaku are guilty of hiding in their own little world as much as people frequently accuse them of.
    but i’m more criticizing the veiled shot of a writer, who needs to do more homework himself, at the abnormality of the otaku condition when the reality is throughout the world of art, the artists are frequently of the abnormal, not of the normal.

    that’s not to say all otaku are great artists, in fact most aren’t and never will be.
    but that is to say that a great artist is more likely to be found amongst the otaku or those that share a similar state of peculiarity as otaku
    as opposed to one that believes art is purely a mundane retelling of personal experience.

  • Anonymous says:

    “They said ‘Real girls cry and moan all the time and betray you on a whim, and are totally spoiled. 2D girls are sweet and lovely, far more so than any real girl.’”

    Really, who’s the “totally spoiled” one here?

  • Anonymous says:

    guess you can’t write a funny manga unless you’re a comedian. or a car manga unless you own all those cars. or a evangelion manga unless you forsaw the upcoming of 21 random ass aliens personified as the rapture.

    naruto – become a ninja
    one piece – become a pirate
    bleach – become dead
    death note – become keikaku

    guy’s jealous of rich otaku while he gets his paycheck stolen by a woman he calls his girlfriend/wife.

  • ”They said ‘Real girls cry and moan all the time and betray you on a whim, and are totally spoiled. 2D girls are sweet and lovely, far more so than any real girl.’”

    okay soo they once again acknowledge that they know what guys want but yet they don’t know how give them what they want…
    so why don’t girls that want relationships start acting more like 2dgirls once they get married they can skip all that lying, faking and stuff like they normally do and reveal their true nature but by then its too late the guy is already hooked for good

    and that solves the population problem kinda…
    unless all the miserable guys start killing themselves… but ehh

    • Anonymous says:

      That’s cause the girls are too picky as well. Guys that want to have such ideals in their significant other are more likely than not, otakus. Since the girls are bitches and not ideal, otakus don’t want them. Now since the guys are otakus, the girls pressured by society, view them as scum and low level and don’t want the guys.

      What eventually happens is these picky girls start to age past their prime and now nobody wants them. So it becomes a perpetual cycle and Japan’s birth rates start to decrease. The old get older while there’s less and less youth to take care of the old. The society will eventually collapse onto itself.

      Now the ones that do get married are either hot and married a rich man so they don’t care about society’s problem since they got money or they’re strict moralfags that will eventually raise their children to become otaku due to the stress.

      • Anonymous says:

        That was a totally one-sided argument…

        Lots of non-otaku look for the “perfect” wives that don’t exist, too, and women are ALWAYS pressured into marriage, yet modern Japanese society just has everything working against it now.
        Sometimes, the girls are not picky, but they are being quite promiscuous, or they are leeching off their parents and waiting to marry by their own volition, or spending more time on education (the new ideal marriage age for educated women is 31), or they are born without preferable looks (which is just unlucky).
        And guys who DON’T look for girls to marry are also not helping at all… especially in the Japanese scope of things.

        As for my position on fictional authors’ abilities…
        Having no experience does very little, if anything, on the story/visual elements that attract the reader.
        There are so many women authors who create boy-love stories with subconscious techniques that perfectly fulfill their own desires, as well as their readers… yet, they have never had boy-love, seen it in reality, nor been lesbian or bi, etc.
        In fact, while boy-love attracts females, actual gays will avoid that and read bara boy-love–a totally different aspect on gay relationships in manga.
        You don’t need reality to fantasize about what would fulfill your desires and still be a good story.

  • Anonymous says:

    Romance:
    1- A species of FICTITIOUS writing….
    2- An adventure, or series of extraordinary events
    3- A DREAMY, IMAGINATIVE habit of mind;
    a disposition to IGNORE WHAT IS REAL;

    Conclusion:
    ROMANCE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH REALITY.

  • Anonymous says:

    “as the games include the creator’s experience of real romance.

    Even if they could make a decent game without such experience, they’d never be able to make anything new.”

    So you can’t write sci-fi unless you have traveled back in time or have flown a TIE Fighter? You can’t write a historical novel unless you are Napoleon himself?

    And what about when that virtual 2D world has actually an impact on reality? Take traps. Traps are idealized in many anime, and yet it also becomes reality (see http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/05/08/sexy-crossdressing-trap-gallery/) It is no longer trapped (no pun intended) in an isolated, inferior 2D world

  • Anonymous says:

    If anime characters were to have full personalities then you 2D lovers would all bitch, they aren’t complete personalities.

    Problem is, people are so obsessed with looks to look any deeper within a person, and what a surprise, when there head finally pops out of there ass, they can’t stand there partner.

    You can all bitch and moan about how women are unfaithful and will stab you in the back as soon as she has your paycheck. In reality you made your own choices. There are people who can manipulate people really easily but most of them can’t, there partners are just morons.

    Most Otaku are selfish(and people in general) and only want a women when it suits them, which is why 2D is so appealing to them, because you can “turn them off” or so to speak.

    Does your 2D partner think about you during the day? Do you honestly believe they love/care about you? They have no personality except of what the creator gave them, and that isn’t personality.

    I get so sick of hearing waaah I’ve been hurt so much, yeah it sucks but if everyone gives up when things get difficult, well shit we wouldn’t have even progressed passed children.

  • Anonymous says:

    Fiction is supposed to be fiction and are not Biographies. That means the stories are not supposed to be real and the authors are not trying to be realistic but rather entertaining. All books, TV shows, movies, ect. go by that since even if it is based on a real story (unless it is a Biography) there will be changes that make it unrealistic so that it can be entertaining because (for the most part) reality is not entertaining.

    With that all a person needs to do to make a successful story is a good imagination, writing skills, a good idea, and maybe some research on the subjects involved. (you could also create something entirely out of your imagination like I did when I came up with stories to tell my little sister when I was younger)

  • Anonymous says:

    I just realized, if someone told otaku that they could be with their 2D lovers in heaven, there would be a massive suicide rate increase in Japan.

    Go government, go! I’m still waiting on those NEET Camps.

  • Anonymous says:

    Well I cannot create anything but Object-Oriented patterns, translations, or XKCD jokes. So I can’t really be bothered.

    But I don’t think the guy has a point either. It seems to me you should not pursue realism in ero-materials, only some illusion of it at the right times. As for vocabulary, well that’s the case already isn’t it? I cannot read Japanese but I can read ero-Japanese. As for creating new things, what does he imply, that relationships constantly innovate as humanity matures? Maybe so, but certainly not at a marketable rate. New things would probably come purely from imagination. As for women’s smell and touch, well, OK, I guess the guy has *a* point. Then again, We’re getting used to hear about it, it’s not evolving.

  • Shippoyasha says:

    I have to agree with the otaku-creator side really. Just because you aren’t a pro or have something as an occupation or have direct real life experience, it doesn’t mean you can’t have your own opinions and interpretation of it. Also, something as basic and as human as romance, no doubt human nature dictates that we have certain instincts and knowledge as humans of how to handle romance. And invariably, we’re influenced by fiction, what other people go through and what we contend with as far as romance in real life. And for those saying ‘it’s too idealized’, well, it IS about making a fiction.

    I find it really laughable that fiction is supposed to abide by reality all of the time. Certainly, anything that comes across as particularly crass or jumping the shark or going through the fourth wall or anything too patronizing or idealized or eccentric may not sell as much as the ones that strikes more genuine human emotions of longing or even sexual imagination.

    • Anonymous says:

      Agreed. I was chatting with my friend the other day when I realized I had spent the better part of an hour talking about food (ok, it was about cooking brisket, not about which end of a pastry was the head).

      • Anonymous says:

        Yeah, overall I find that people like to claim a lot of series are ‘unrealistic’ but then I look back at my own life and realize that anime isn’t THAT far from reality in some cases.

    • Anonymous says:

      Exactly, good fiction is unreal and better than reality thus experience is useless if not even negative for the creative process.

      You can come up with better 2D if you aren’t tainted with the 3D.

  • Anonymous says:

    There’s a clear and blatant fallacy that the 2ch otaku are perhaps deliberately overlooking:

    Otaku romances only sell to otaku.

    The state of the media has become something of an echo chamber. What is portrayed isn’t really an idealized romance for anybody /but/ otaku – and since otaku are the only consistently reliable demographic for the medium, it’s easier to portray media that meets their falsified expectations and distorted values than it is to risk money on a venture with a more general target audience.

    And since otaku watches nothing but otaku-oriented media, what we get is a subcultural feedback loop that slowly eats itself alive.

    We’re our own worst enemies.

  • Personally, I don’t like manga and games that try to make the characters realistic. The biggest reason why I (and many other people) prefer 2D girls isn’t just because I find 2D girls more attractive than 3D girls, it’s because of the unrealistic personalities that most 2D girls have. If I wanted girls with realistic personalities then I would go find some real girls.

    Realistic situations are fine as long as the characters are unrealistic and realistic characters can be good in unrealistic situations but having realistic characters in a realistic situation is just something I wouldn’t waste my time with.

      • Anonymous says:

        So wait, you have to experience actual horrifying events to make a horror film?

        Or be a murderer of demons to make an action game maker?

        Or do you need to go into space to make great sci-fi stories?

        Right. Stories are supposed to be made out of the imagination. If you really think have real life experiences are what make stories great, I guess series like Star Wars don’t count.

    • Oh rly? I’m pretty sure it’s the otakus who are jealous and lie to themselves. Tell me, do you know at least one old otaku, lets say, in his 40s, who is sexually healthy (or, at least, been through the most of his life), a virgin, and who is happy with his life? LOL, I thought so….

  • Daiyousei says:

    I think imagination, originality, and the ability to write creatively are the qualifications needed for a successful writer. If you have those, you can get two different things writing from imagination and from experiance; both are equally valid (but generally quite different).

    • Anonymous says:

      There’s quite a lot one can do to go against the lack of experiences. Imagination can go a long way but so can research. Researching the subject need not be at firsthand accounts. For exemple, on a horror story, detailing in massive effect how it feels to be torn apart does not need to be experienced first-hand but can be well observed, compared to other exemples, drawing from general studies, comparable ideas and whatnot, one can easily write a few paragraphs worth of the sensation of a zombie gnawing at your entire arm from your middle finger up to your shoulder as you remain powerless to fight against the hoarde.

      If you’re like me and you talk with enough people who have experience in such domains (Sex and relationships) on a daily basis, I’d say first-hand experience would be easily skippeable. You get more then enough information about the smell, experience, sensations, and on top of that from a great variety of views which enables you to focus more on a truer, general and idealistic sensation that is both real and entirely fantasy, but to which those with and without experience can relate to.

      So in short: She’s an idiot who’s probably never written a single chapter in her life.