Minori Vandalises Eroge Translation Site

eden-bikini-shoujo

Eroge publisher Minori, well known both for the ef series and its grotesque xenophobia, has earned itself additional notoriety for its ham-fisted attempt to take down a fan translation project by deleting the contents of their wiki and replacing it with a copyright infringement notice, and then engaging in an unseemly edit-war with site inhabitants.

The incident began with Minori “taking down” a fan translation wiki page for one of their games (Eden) by blanking the page, which was reverted as vandalism. Some hours after this they came back and overwrote the page with the following:

The copyright of all the files on this page belongs to Minori. As we never gave permission for its distribution we are deleting it all for you.

The lengthy exchange between the xenophobes at Minori and a bunch of obnoxious, self-righteous pirates is not worth reproducing here, but the incident was eventually “resolved” with threats of legal action by Minori and the relatively responsible translators agreeing to cease their translation project.

Minori itself denied receiving any request for permission from the translators, whilst the translation group supposedly asked, received no response and decided to go ahead anyway – just what actually transpired is not clear.

This incident coupled with Minori’s previous inflammatory treatment of international fans seems to indicate the company either possesses only the most embarrassingly rudimentary understanding of the workings of Internet PR, or else it is intentionally treating international fans with the contempt it thinks they deserve.

It is difficult to explain why they persist in blaming foreigners for censorship of their industry with any explanation except sheer prejudice – all the groups striving to impose bans on the industry have been Japanese religious maniacs using international criticism (which so far amounts to a few slow news days and a crazy band of feminist liars) as an excuse to pass the laws they seek.

Legally however, Minori is quite correct in asserting its rights – translated works generally remain under the copyright of their original authors, and distributing without permission them constitutes copyright violation, except where allowed by “fair use” or similar.

Additionally, it is quite clear the majority of fan translation projects facilitate piracy far in excess of any international sales they might generate, and so from this perspective it is easy to see why publishers are not infrequently sceptical of them – translators can hardly be ignorant of the fact that their patches are more often applied to torrented isos than they are to legitimately imported games.

Whatever the legal questions raised by the fracas, it certainly serves as an abject lesson in how not to handle the issue – in fact it is hard to imagine it being handled in a worse way.

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204 Comments

  • Agnes and co. have been bitching and moaning for a ban on anything otaku-related for a while and nothing’s happened. The Japanese media’s been going off on how anime and manga are ruining Japan since Miyazaki Tsutomu and nothing’s happened. But one stupid gaijin femi-nazi group complains and it ends up setting off a chain of events that lead up to this whole mess where now an actual law is about to be passed.

    Sure, the foreigners aren’t the only ones to blame. But they’re a big part of it and if they’d stop sticking their noses in the freedom of expression in our country, things wouldn’t have gotten this far.

  • Their action may not be correct, but their reasons are sound no matter how you see it.

    Who are the people who forces and pressure the ban on making rape games?

    Who are the one reporting the Rapelay game and putting pressure of their government to ban loli etc?

    You can speck and excuse all you want on no lost sales on pirating, but in the first place the people who created all these games, you mean they have no right who they want to see or access them?

    Yes they do not want foreigners having to access and play their games. Especially the English speaking countries with all the shit they are giving. Why is it as of now it seems that they close their eyes on the CHINESE.

    Call them xenophobia all you want. Who are the Idiots who vote for their countries government that’s giving them all the needless shit and yet have the nerve to call Minori on their own company policy. Full of ego?

    You want to destroy them and yet you also want to pirate their product. When they dont want you to see their work, you call out on them. Why dont you just nuke them again? save all the trouble. As one of your politician said, two is not enough.

    • Anon 01:37

      Is that the best you can point out? Like even If you are given the right to vote, will anything change?

      No, Example If you are American, in the end it be the same 2 party. And all goes back to square 1. Just like how it was in the 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s 00s 10s.

      you think just because you can vote, everything will change and utopia will be here?

      Anon 01:47

      Sure pass the blame, the government the one to do it. If you feel so strongly not to be associated, why dont you speak up and do things that are useful.

      Cos its not your problem? When all rights you feel the need to be involve in all the good stuff, when things go wrong, not me, so not my responsibility. Yeah like that work

      Think again. When as of now, the CHINESE are off the radar? They pirate more of the eroge, they have much more fan translated stuff.

  • Minori just updated their (外国) foreign website. Anyone willing to provide a translation of it? It’s awesomely long.

    I’m not an expert, but from what I read so far, seems like they decided it is safer for everyone if they just block the outer world out.(Sadly, I agree with their stand)

    Thanx CNN. Thanx!

  • You may know this isn’t just because of piracy.
    Piracy is, of course, problem. It’s just a profit problem and it’s means there are potential customer.
    No reason to prohibit, they just do nothing.

    But this time, it’s because of political – legal problem.
    In some states, you may arrest and get the verdict “(fictional)child pornography”.
    Not joke, it’s fact.

    So, minori is just take his “social responsibility”.
    Good company, isn’t it.

  • Luckily some other (better) companies like Type Moon gave their blessings to fan translators or make deals to publish their games here like Nitroplus. Then again, only the few racist/full of prejudice/retarded on both sides are vocal about it.

  • This distinctly sounds to me like they have a bit of a hot-head for a PR officer. It also sounds like pretty dumb marketing; this is going to be a rather severe blow to their public image.

  • Out of Japan,
    gradually hentai games are becoming illegal.
    Infact, U.S. man got a guilty verdict because he has hentai manga.

    And some gaijin play their hentai game in illegal, people criticize not only him, and also hentai game company.

    “These are illegal in your country, we never want you play our game. You should play your own country games. Good-bye.”

    It’s OK. We should make our own hentai game and ban Japanese players?

    • Well, Minori said they are willing to accept an official translation if the translator is willing to take responsability for the publication of the game at his country, with a proper rating system.
      “Responsability” is the word here. There’s a real witch hunt going around those days, with the lousy feminist groups doing what they want. Minori is afraid that Bob (13) is caught by his mom playing the english hentai games he bought/downloaded ilegally and she goes to CNN/FoxNews/etc screaming around “how those jap games are barbaric pedoshit” and usually this soccer mom try to sue them for the game.(See the rapelay case)
      Of course, if you wouldn’t buy it in the first place, you have no right to complain.

  • For eroge makers to fear it most is to be regarded eroge’s illegality as questionable in foreign countries and criticized severely from there.
    They has misgivings about circulation to foreign countries very much because there is a precedent.
    Actually the movement of the restriction to the eroge industry becomes strong in Japan now.

    • It’s covered under international copyright law. Just because it’s not released in your country doesn’t mean it isn’t protected by the copyright laws there, it’s just that nobody bothers cracking down on it (which is why asian bootleg stores freely sell pirated Asian movies and music in western countries, because there’s nobody who gives a shit, the authorities certainly don’t).

  • – すべての海賊版のエロゲの由来はShare/PerfectDark/Winny
    – Share/PerfectDark/Winnyは全て日本発
    – Share/PerfectDark/Winnyに海賊版を放流してる人は全て日本人
    – Share/PerfectDark/Winnyのユーザーは大抵日本人
    – 外人はShare/PerfectDark/Winnyを使って日本人から海賊版をダウンロードしてTorre
    ntに流す
    – Torrentのpeerは大半日本のip
    – 古いTorrent(peerが少なくなっているtorrent)のpeerは大抵日本ip

    割れ害人(笑

    ttp://img104.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=65517_Capture2_122_499lo.JPG

  • *Notes down whom to boycott*
    M-i-n-o-r-i

    Incidentally, I would rather spend money for pirated VN, than to official distributors that have DRM and stuff which forces you to stay connect to the interwebz, effectively robbing you of your freedom.

  • I find this act to be highly unprofessional by Minori. It’s like a kid rubbing out another kid’s work because he was copying him.

    What Minori fails to see is that if they considered letting their Eroge go out of Japan, some of the ‘dirty’ foreigners will pay for them. They assume that because a handful of people complain about them, all foreigners are the same.

    Yet ironically, they turn a blind eye and fail to see that there are such people complaining about eroge in their own country.

    Besides I’m sure the Japanese are as well versed in the act of software piracy as any other country.

  • HOLY!! A Japanese company not allowing foreigners access to their products or outright not releasing them regardless of their existing fanbase and potential profits that might come from importing said products? This really is (tabloid) news!!

    Still, copyright is copyright but the fact that minori couldn't have sent the usual cease and desist letter,which TLwiki always respects (Saya no Uta is an example), just seems unnecessary and immature .

    Oh delicious intrawebs tears…..

  • summary of minori’s stance :

    1. minori doesn’t allow usage of their software outside Japan
    2. minori doesn’t allow buying/selling of their software outside Japan
    3. Said softwares does not work without Japanese operating system
    3.1 The software is locked intentionally to only work with Japanese OS
    4. minori website blocks all foreign access
    5. minori requests foreigners to solve the rapelay problem as if all foreigners are responsible
    6. NNL actually did contacted minori regarding the wind translation long ago but was ignored
    7. minori demands unrealistic conditions if anyone want to obtain their license, doubtful if they actually want anyone to talk to them at all

    • Simon Jones says:

      > 5. minori requests foreigners to solve the rapelay problem as if all foreigners are responsible

      But… it *is* our responsibility. It’s our laws, our elected officials. We have to fix it ourselves. They can’t fight our battles for us, nor do they have such an obligation to us.

      >6. NNL actually did contacted minori regarding the wind translation long ago but was ignored

      Ignoring is a “polite” way of saying “no.”

    • indeed now i see everything well true all the means we get to play the game is indeed illegal (hacking and pirating) since we cant understand the EULA if there is ever one which I know there is.
      sure you buy an original copy of the game but you will still need to hack it to get the installer working right its a hassle and sure it maybe easy to do but its still illegal

    • Ta da~~

      What, minori aren’t going after them?! Omg the shocks and horrors. They’d rather take on the soft underbelly of the maru-maru-boos than the Green Dam, and I’m not surprised.

      • Well, the chinese never did any bashing of Japan for eroge as far as I know. Whereas the english community has been going crazy over CNN’s pirating of Rapeplay.

        Btw, anyone called the cops on them yet? They did obtain it illegally right?

        Copyright Cops!!!! The CNN has infringing materials on their computer!!!

  • In a somewhat ironic twist, they’ve got Western economics down pat out in the Far East. I guess they’re so far up their own rear ends that they’ve hit the Americas.

    Piracy is not harmful if it is nonprofit and noncompetitive. This means no one is making money off the piracy (no dubloons, laddy), and the pirated item is not available in that location. For example, if I stole an HIV vaccine from the states, duplicated it, and gave it for free to people in Africa, it’s legally piracy. But they can’t afford the meds, even at cost let alone the 100x markup, so they are not prospective buyers, and I’m making no money off it, in fact I’m losing money. If the pharmaceutical firm throws a hissy fit, they get bad press, people stop buying from them. If they support the move and endorse it retroactively as a matter of “charity”, they’re Mother Frick’n Teresa to news stations.

    The pirates offer media coverage opportunities, but also media pit-traps. Mostly pit-traps here because though normals would say “way to stick it to the pirates”, unfortunately, their target market are otaku, NEETs, and hikkikomori, all of which have a nasty stereotype of /being pirates/. Know your target audience, folks.

  • How sad. Oh well, since Midori isn’t supporting the international scene…

    Guess pirating is the only way to go until they start to wake up. Once I move out, I can finally start to collect all the H games and have no fear of it being found. Lol.

  • What’s all the fuss about anyway. They were caught breaking copyright infringement. They damn knew that there was a risk of this happening to them. Same if someone downloaded underage pornography (3D mind you, to avoid the 2D not people argument since that’s outside the scope of this article). If they didn’t then they were just deluding themselves. Still, the conduct of Minori was unprofessional at best, if not childish.

  • If I work for minorin, I’ll probably do the same thing. and actually if you want to blame anyone, blame CNN and the EU, they were the cause of this. Before that there weren’t such a problem. Minorin makes games that can only be sold in Japan and not other countries. So there is no legal way of obtaining it unless you live in japan.

  • In the age of digital media any form of piracy is inevitable given the nature of P2P networks. It’s a complete waste of time to fight the tides of change (and it’s a fucking big tide at that).

    Funny how people invest so much time, money and effort into fighting piracy. That sort of resource could be put to better use in figuring out how to turn piracy into a new form of distribution channel and turning a profit from it.

    I’m not supporting the notion of a free lunch. I’m just stumped by people’s refusal to change and adapt to new trends.

    • Japanese companies are even more stuck in their old business model than companies in other parts of the world are. So its no wonder they won’t change their methods or acutally try a new way to sell things

      It don’t matter how you sell stuff if it can be pirated their are always people that will and have done so since man first figured out if I build this I can sell it. So instead of wasteing time, money, effort trying to stop people you’d be better off

      A) not pissing off the paying customers who WILL pirate your stuff out of spite

      B) finding ways to expand your ways to sell so you can end up with a much larger amount of buyers over pirates.

      C)People are lazy if they got a choice between pay $5 for the simple ready out of box way to get their stuff or spend a couple of hours looking for a place to d/l and getting around the worthless DRM you’ll find a lot of people will just pay the $5 to avoid the hassle when their is an easier way. And don’t worry about the guys that went to the trouble to d/l and bypass your DRM as they weren’t going to buy it anyways so your not going to lose off them to start with.

  • babybluez287 says:

    what Minori should do is release the VN actually sell it online to westerners

    and release a downloadable patch themself for like a small fee . that way people would actually buy their stuff

    well atleast i know i would .. saves the trouble of translating

    • You’re making it sound like it’s cheap to get someone to translate their stuff domestically. Businesses just aren’t willing to take a risk like that and lose the investment in a translator and web hosting and all the paperwork for selling something overseas in the economy as it is right now. Think about it. Who knows what their profit margin is right now. The could already be in a deficit from all the pirating they get domestically. Risking for foreign sales in an environment like that is next to economic suicide if you’re a businessman and you might as well have your bankruptcy papers handy if the risk fails.

      • Apperently their fans are satisfied with some random people on the internet subbing it. Instead of silencing people by threatening them you could pay them a little as a good gesture towards their fan community and then raise the status of their translation to ‘official’.
        Costs, near zilch… potential profit is both free advertising as sites around the internet will post of your “good deed” and a you just gained a whole lot of potential customers.

        • But it’s not as simple as just paying them money. If they pay them, does that mean they’re now employees of the company? Could these people really deliver what they say they can? For all they know it could be just talk. What if the translation quality isn’t up to par with company standards or worse they make a bad translation and other people judge it harshly? There are legal grey areas if they actually pay them to translate their stuff on the internet. They probably don’t want to deal with the hassles and headaches.

  • If I remember correctly minori had DRM in one of their games.

    It would only play if the clock was set to Japanese time, on Japanese Windows.

    So you couldn’t just change the locale or time ‘n’ stuff, it *had* to be the Japanese version of Windows.

  • How about just releasing the game in English so nobody can whine about the fact they can’t speak moonrunes or do dick moves like this one.

    I mean Minori can hate us filthy gaijin all they want, but they might as well be damn professionals, suck up their stupid xenophobia and take our money selling us their product since we want them so much.

    I’m all for licensed eroges; they’re great games. I wanna try more and more new titles, but if they don’t give any English versions what the hell do they expect.

  • FMPhoenixHawk says:

    A worse way? How about hijacking the site, and then sending a virus as a “patch” to everyone who had the game, making a virus to drop into anyone new who downloaded the game, suing the owners of every piece of hardware owned by the translators for everything they own, then demanding that all the folks who even looked at the site be publicly beat and sodomized in punishment for not doing things their way. Oh, and that’s just for the foreigners. For those Japanese citizens that helped, it would be worse.

    See, when you really want to be evil, you can be.

  • They blame us for the censorship of the eroge industry and try to avoid potential further censorship with this dick move.

    So what is keeping them from trying to abolish that moronic genitals censorship law by hacking government websites and mailbombing the prime minister?
    Lack of backbone perhaps?

    Seriously though. its 2010 for christs sake. has no one ever tried to get rid of that law?

  • If one wants to make a translation of someone’s copyrighted work, one has to obtain a license/permission from the copyright holder in order to do so. Usually, you have to pay the company money and abide to their rules. Unauthorized translations means the company has no control over how their translated works are produced. Any 12-year-old can start a group, plaster their group logos all over their OP sequences and degrade their works with a shotty translations. Minori wants control over their works, and if there were to be an English translation they would want it to be licensed an done by a professional and reputable company which they would be happy to be associated with.

    • It’s not even about control over their works. They don’t want their works to get out of Japan, period.

      Plus, would any professional and reputable company want to associate with Minori after learning about their rude actions done to that fan site?

    • But they don’t want that. They never had an international market in mind. They ar exenophobic and that reflects on the way they treated this fan translations; with vandalism and childishness.

      The way they approached them is what’s questionable not the reason (which they are totally entitled to), since they are supposedly a professional company.

  • well indeed piracy is still piracy in what ever words you chuck into it, even if you buy the game from japan through a ‘proxy’ on the internet its highly unlikely that they will still get profit from it, even if someone you know indeed buys the game for you chances the problems your friend might find is the customs, and now if were going to deal with the game themselves it wont run on any windows outside Japan unless if your windows copy is authenticated in Japan, unless stated otherwise (via hacking) which is another bad thing. so there… means of making things work properly anything outside the specified market to them is bad. it doesnt mean that translating is bad but the means on how the original product can be indeed a relative factor which i think other posts have pointed out so never mind

      • by passing installer security is still called hacking and we do know thats somewhere in the illegal zone in terms of laws involved so how cant that be dumb
        sure their first attempt on ef was for you to set your operating system time to GMT+9 Sapporo,Japan
        however you should by now knew that someone was kind enough to supply us the installer patch for eden* to get it installed right? its either from 2ch or from the western audience so yeah
        heck at least its this method we get to play the game but think if you have played BISHOP games or Selen games they have notorious protection systems and I mind you they are quite the hassle during those times

        • First off, hacking is when you’re trying to bypass the security systems of a network/information system, not modding your OS to make it seem like it was originally japanese.

          Second off, you don’t even need to modify your OS. Someone just needs to make a modified executable for the game that either A)Fools the software into thinking your OS is japanese, or B)Omits the checking completely

          lrn2computers

    • >it wont run on any windows outside Japan unless if your windows copy is authenticated in Japan

      >even if you buy the game from japan through a ‘proxy’ on the internet its highly unlikely that they will still get profit from it

      Are you really a moron, or are you just pretending to be one?

  • Amateurs…
    1- Complete the translation patch.
    2- Make a silly web for the acclaim and the patch(“attention whore way” is making this step first)
    3- The publisher attacks the web and send legal threats to the emails(dummy emails xD) of the web.
    4- The web is down by the web host or the vandalism.
    5- Repeat step 2.
    6-????
    7-PROFIT!

  • Essentially, it’s just Minori barking up the wrong tree and generally being an ass. Because they can.

    But seeing how Eroge publishers simply have nothing to gain from the international markets, could you really blame them for just banning everyone outside Japan?

  • With the success of dlsite you’ve would think they would be more open toward there foreign customer, that answered my question I guess .I just feel sorry for people who actually buy their games, like me for instance

  • domination says:

    Deface some wiki to make an point of view is just stupid.
    Pirate games/Doujins etc is a good way to have your work known at the world.
    Since some eroges fail with english translators why the f*ck i would buy some original for an language that i cannot understand?
    I buy the original when the english version is released!

  • Fuck that shit, minori. What “legal action” are you going to take all the way from Japan? Oh, what you have lawyers all hired in the US too? In that case, how ’bout you use that money to hire some translators and sell the game in this market so we have an actual way to play the game. fucking idiots.

    • International copyright laws are pretty hard to enforce if you are not an international corporation.
      The truth is a company has little legal power outside a country it lacks offices in.
      China rips off everything and nobody can do nothing more then seize the counterfeit goods when they are shipped to countries that own the IP.
      Minori’s actions would farther reduce any chance of getting foreign entities to enforce their copyright.

      • And of course, minori aren’t going after those bastards who are ripping their stuff off somewhere south-south-west of where they are since they’d soon find missiles up their arse ;p

        • We.

          can force minori.

          into a mexican standoff.

          if we point Philippine laws at them.

          minori uses Philippine domains for their site.

          Philippines has an anti-CP law.

          minori has to stand down or else we throw the CP law at them.

  • Minori is obviously justified in protecting their copyrighted material as a company. But wasting time on stopping a fan translation is just silly. There is a practical guarantee that it has no impact on sales whatsoever. The childish methods used only enhance the irony of them wasting company time (unless it was the personal actions of an employee) to preserve no sales at all.

    • Yeah, they should use their efforts to stop, you know, the Japanese pirates who started distributing the games online (not a fan translation that serves no purpose if one doesn’t have the game). If they cut them off, then we filthy gaijin would never know of any games. Goes without saying.

      Not that they weren’t in their right to stop them, but it was quite childish the way they did it.

  • Well i willing to bet that they dont give two shits about copyright violation. They deleted because they were afraid their game would be shown on the news or something if it was fully translated.

    • It would still promote the game. As they say, there’s no such thing as bad publicity.

      All in all, they are just nationalistic pricks. They would rather blame foreigners than their domestic consumers (which are the source of most piracy) and political groups.

      • What are you talking about, no such thing as bad publicity? That’s like saying there’s no such thing as biased news. If a product comes out and all the trusted news sources say that it causes cancer, even though they don’t mention there’s only a 0.007% chance of it happening, will people buy it? If you say yes then you should take a marketing course (not that I have, since at least this little bit should be common sense).

        • Then what about Rapelay? Because of its bad publicity it got banned and is no longer available for sale and the only way to obtain it is through illegal means (for free). Then all the nasty negative externalities like the new xenophobic attitudes of companies like Minori, and the image created by news outlets that Japanese visual novels are sexually violent and should be scorned. While this may create foreign interest in these games, but what’s the point if foreigners can’t read them or the producers like Minori won’t even sell it to them? What did producers gain from Rapelay that out-weighs all the negatives?

          Let’s go a bit abstract instead. For arguments sake what if, hypothetically, it came to light that the current US government is spying and carrying out political assassinations in third-world countries. How popular do you think the current government would be then? By your argument then they would at first lose votes, but then later get many more votes in the long run in future elections.

          And another thing, I’m pretty sure you don’t need someone to ban a book for it to become a best-seller real fast, as in I’m pretty sure the Pope didn’t ban Harry Potter when it came out. And I’m pretty sure the Quran (or Koran depending on how you want to spell it) was not exactly a best-seller in Christian societies during the Crusades.

        • This Anon has taken a marketing course, though.

          Guess what? Anti-tobacco ads sell smokes: they trigger an addict’s craving. Every time the news says cigs cause cancer, more people buy cigs. The ban on advertising lowers sales, the sneak-it-in ads of “We’re a bad product, now watch several shots of attractive Hollywood actors smoking so we can tell you its bad” is good.

          There is no such thing as bad publicity. The fastest way to get a bestselling book it for the pope to ban it.

    • Professional company does not vandalize.

      Good company send mail. Translators like games of company. Translators respect company. Translators do what company ask. No problems.

      Pirate always pirate even if there is english version, but english version allow normal people to buy game and support company.

      Pirate edition comes from japan, also. Not foreigner who come into country to put game on internet.

      • Anon speak good truth. Pirate will pirate. Asian pirate will pirate Asian.

        A good company did send me a mail, about evangelion of all things, requesting politely to stop uploading episodes of it. So I did, they were really nice about it.

        What’s that thing that everyone thinks the Japanese have… Honor? No that’s not it… Respect? No, not that… Politeness? Guess not… Oh right, pathological xenophobia. It makes it so you act really stupid sometimes, but give them a break, xenophobia is a millennium-long part of their tradition.

  • I dunno, I think maybe Minori are correct in their actions from a business perspective, so far western fans have been nothing but poison for the eroge industry.

    From what I understand MangaGamer hasn’t made a profit on most of their games so far. The earning potential of selling to western audiences seems low to non-existant, while all of the negative attention from the hysterical western media has put the whole industry in a though situation.

    I always seem people on this site trying to claim that “the Japanese” should stand up to foreign influence, but eroge fans aren’t “the Japanese” they’re a tiny hated minority and the greater Japanese public wouldn’t lose any sleep over crushing the entire market. Can you really blame them for trying to keep the gaijin away?

  • Minori seems to be seeking attention, or just bizarrely fighting for an ilogical cause.

    Also having a translation patch would even make the game more attractive to western people (so it could even RAISE their sales).

    Now I’m thinking into pirating their games just because of their FAIL action…

    • Their actions are highly illogical.

      Any advertising outside a small group is good advertising.

      But their actions are considered distasteful even among their existing clients which may cause many of them to pirate our of spite or simply avoid their products.

    • These games only expect to sell a few thousand copies. The probable effect of a popular translation patch is a few dozen extra sales and some thousands of additional torrenters. So the number of extra sales is likely inconsequential in real times. Brand awareness and merchandising might be a bigger boost, but with such fringe titles these are not always applicable.

      And going by your own argument, by pirating their games you are actually helping them – thus, you should not pirate their games if you wish to see them be punished for their xenophobia.

      I realise it is just a facile attempt at rationalising piracy, but it still needs some work to fool anyone of any intelligence.

      • Artefact, your rationalizing their reaction (or just staying in the middle with a “your both dumbasses”) by equating a fan translation to piracy. Being as a translation patch does not require a torrented game to work, it itself is a healthy addition. The act of pirating should be acknowledge for itself and not lumped together. That’s like say a hikkikomori who is insane and killed his family is a sign that all hikkikomori will kill their parents.

      • (1) Even a few dozen extra sales + some merchandise versus thousands of torrenters that wouldn’t have torrented without the patch means profit. It might be neglectable, but it’s still profit.

        (2) Regardless of whether you help them or not, you piss them off, and that’s what counts. In the end, we (or I, at any rate) don’t really hate them – they do create great games after all. So actually helping by pissing them off is not an issue.

      • If I were to get one of their games, I would pirate instead of buy due to their unethical action. That is the point.

        Piracy doesn’t help them, it actually hurts them. But a translation patch doesn’t necessarely mean piracy. I could get someone to buy me the game in Japan, and play it in English.

  • Yes, it is copyright infringement by word of law.

    But more then likely they had no intention of selling this internationally, so it isn’t like they are loosing money over it. The more corporations rage over piracy, the more pirates smile and gain pleasure in stealing said property.

    Is it right – no, but we are far from a perfect society.

    (and I have to agree with other commentors – they hate foreigners, well fuck them as well – hate can be a two way street)

    • Uh… I’m lost. Sure, Minori brings up The Man in justifying its actions but…

      What’s Minori’s intention really? To prevent copyright infringement? Or just preventing access to their games by foreigners?

      I’m not sure who to blame yet between the two, but I sure am hating fascist moral crusaders, attentions whores, female superiority advocates, and their sockpuppets. I don’t think shit like this would even happen if someone didn’t start a crusade against fictional depictions of sex.

      Triggered by previously mentioned idiots, CNN now has something to twist the facts about, the mass of more idiots are tagging along and hypocritically agree, and politicians are now trying to win votes from these collective idiots to secure their grasp of power while they themselves might be sodomizing some choir boy at local church every Sunday.

  • Minori are a bunch of idiots. They are not loosing a single sale by having fans translate their project. Only international fans are the ones who are gonna potentially pirate it now, people who previously would have had no interest in their game due to it being in a different language.
    The fan translations actually BOOST their sales by some fans that will actually import the game one a translation patch is available.

    • They were loosing no sales on translations.
      But defacing a wiki before going through legal routes is extremely unprofessional.
      The reasons for their actions make all of Japan look bad so I say everybody should boycott them.

    • Japanese speaking pirates will pirate them regardless of what translators do.

      They don’t plan on selling outside so whatever sales “lost” to non-Japanese speaking pirates would equal $0.

      Unless they don’t want foreign barbarians stealing their ideas and coming back to compete with non-Japanese ero-games.

    • Piracy is piracy no matter how you spin it. A company may not have released a product into a market, yet any unlicensed release by fans cuts into the potential profits to be made in said market. A rough example- just because Gucci has no stores in China (they actually do) does not mean the fake handbags on the streets are legally justified (even if they do give the brand additional exposure).

      Translation patches are slightly different tho, as patches alone may not necessarily cut into profits. Yet since companies/creators created the material, they in the end have the final say on it’s usage.

      It may suck to be a consumer but this is the reality of the free market. Well, I suppose we could revolt and build a worker’s paradise…

      • Did you know law was originally created to protect people and is supposed to be about protecting people currently. The problem is that how law is being used currently is in violation of that. In this circumstance a game company that has no intention of translating their games into English is using law to stop a fantranslation. This is a use of law that isn’t protecting anyone since the translation wouldn’t equal lost sales. The creation of the translation gives access to a market that currently can’t access that product. That means that the use of law in this case is only harming people and not helping people. (this includes the company through image and lost potential sales from people buying the game because of the translation)

      • We don’t have to swing from one extreme into the other. But a single, globally implemented law that basically states “if you don’t serve a specific market, you can’t hold the copyright to your products in that market” would teach those elitist pigs not to discriminate against languages and/or residence.

        • I was actually referring to “soft” ware only. That includes software of course, but also music, movies, and anything that can be digitized in general. With this cleared up:

          Costs: Fans will charge *gasp* NOTHING for coding a translation patch / writing subtitles! The product wouldn’t even have to be localized at all in order to fit the definition of “serving a market”.

          Local morality/domestic laws etc.: Why should a company give two flying fucks about someone buying their product despite it being illegal where said person lives? No one forced them to add it to the cart on an international site and hit “download”.

          “Yay, now anyone can pirate completely legally now ^o^”
          Only in barbaric countries who’s filthy sub-human residents have been deemed unworthy.

          Now go shove that arrogant attitude of yours up your ass – oh wait, that place is already occupied by Minori’s dick.

        • It could also be the cost could(as well as other circumstances, say, a country’s views on the content of the product) prevent them from releasing said product. So why don’t you take your “elitist pig” viewpoint and shove it up your ass.

          And lol at “if you don’t serve a specific market, you can’t hold the copyright to your products in that market”. Yay, now anyone can pirate completely legally now ^o^

  • Saying that a patch = piracy is just plain idiotic. Seriously, what was Minori thinking. What do they want, people who can read Japanese pirate it or people who can only speak English pirate it too. It is not like it is a lost sale and they are not releasing the original story only a translation which Minori has no intention to make.

      • are 100% certain the language doesn’t matter?
        as i understand local copyright laws, any piece of work, even if it’s based on someone else’s, retains at least partial copyright in favour of the one who made it. of course, this still doesn’t justify that the translators took the original work and created a derivative work of it. but as a matter of fact, their translation is their work and bears (among the original creator’s) their copyright.
        of course, the original author can still deny them the right of distribution (as they still retain copyright of the original work), but saying that they own the copyright of all the content on the translator’s site is a blatant lie.

        *sigh* it’s about time the whole bunch of copyright laws gets renovated… vote pirate, people! 🙂

      • It’s not only the story they own, the graphics, artworks, music, coding, etc. The story on it’s own is useless for the Minori game without all of those, and Minori holds copyright to everything contained in that game. Otherwise you might as well read a book.

      • Yes, it definitely is copyright violation, but Minori’s move is still counter-productive to their profits. If even just ONE fan-translation user buys the original game to use the patch on, they’ve made a profit, while they won’t lose a single yen even if millions of dirty gaijin pirate the game along with the patch.

        • But you forget, most of the fan translated/pirated games will always end up on illegal sales online. There has been a lot of them illegally sold on Amazon as well, especially Rapelay, which is how it was brought to the attention of the media. A lot of these pirates will try to pretend to be a legitimate business in order to sell these games illegally.

        • But even if 1,000 people pirate the game and only 10 people buy it due to this translation, Minori will still get the profit from the 10 copies and they have lost nothing since the 1,000 people wouldn’t have bought it in the first place.

        • How many foreigners do you think will actually buy the game, in comparison to those who will pirate the game once they know this patch is out?

          Most of the time these fan translation patches tend to encourage piracy instead of sales. Not everyone will know where to import these games, or have the willingness to actually import the game, especially when games and shipping costs are different in Japan when you compare it to everywhere else in the world.

  • I fail to see how fan translations facilitate piracy. It just makes the product more viable to more people. People can still buy it through the usual routes. If the company doesn't translate they aren't losing anything anyway. If anything it's good for the company, and helps bring a good culture around the game, go go free marketing.

    • minori them xenophobic bitches pisses me off! i guess in order to prove their point they have to hack into the website and remove their content, BEFORE they then send a legal notice. very tasteless and classless, gonna stoop to the level of internet thugs. boycott minori!!

      edit: anon 8:08 is my comment, but forgot to log in!

      • I think the belief that Minori is xenophobic is baseless and misleading. Was it xenophobic when EA edited negative Wiki comments on their description page? Was it xenophobic when Nintendo started pursuing the sellers and makers of R4 cards? Was it even xenophobic when Ubisoft installed a controversial DRM into Assassin’s Creed 2?

        There is a possibility that Minori wanted to remove any possible direction/links for people to find out about the fan translation. We don’t even know if they sent a legal notice after they edited the page, it could have been sent before but it’s possible the translators could have misled the public about that in order to gain sympathy, since nobody outside of that group has any direct information about it.

        Minori could have just been trying to protect their copyright, and nothing beyond that. But as you can see the translation group is rather defiant about it, so Minori was probably targeted with a lot of hate propaganda by supporters who doesn’t know all the facts.

        There’s a lot of possibilities to this story that we are not clear on, so to call Minori xenophobic is rather harsh, since we don’t really know what is their side of the story other than what is available through the fan translation group’s claims.

    • minori them xenophobic bitches pisses me off! i guess in order to prove their point they have to hack into the website and remove their content, BEFORE they then send a legal notice. very tasteless and classless, gonna stoop to the level of internet thugs. boycott minori!!

    • People tend to forget that fan translations doesn’t only limit to the illegal use of the story itself. These translations also takes advantage of the graphics, artwork, the computer coding, etc. Basically Minori invested a lot of hours and money into all of their projects. Fan translations itself is basically taking away all their work and most of the time encourage foreigners to illegally download Minori’s games, and never even consider about buying the game at all. (Don’t even try to deny this is not happening.)

      Furthermore, Japan has been under extreme scrutiny by moralistic foreigners who have been attacking their culture based on their games, especially due to the loli content, which is probably found in this game as well. Minori probably fears if the foreign media were to get a hold of their game, then the nonstop cycle of foreign media frenzy against Japan will start again, as we have witnessed in the situation due to Rapelay. You may believe you have the right to defend the translators, but Minori definitely has more right to defend their copyright in any way they see it.

      The fact that the fan translators went ahead with the translations without a clear response from the Minori staff or lawyers is in itself enough to point out that they had no right to translate it. Just because they didn’t respond to a request, doesn’t mean it’s a thumbs up to go ahead and use their work. The translators were wrong to even complain about Minori’s Cease & Desist order, and they probably knew they were wrong to complain.

      • You don’t deserve a rebuttal since everything you said has already had a rebuttal in this thread so you should read the thread. The important aspect though is that there wouldn’t have been one lost sale do to the fan translation since only people who know Japanese buy these games so not one person that needed the translation will buy the game but some of those people might have with the translation.

        PS. If Minori wern’t pricks then they would pay those people to finish the translation and then sell the game as a download with the translation on their website.

      • He’s got a point. Out of all the options Minori could have chosen they chose the safest one. Allowing the fans to translate it would and getting it released to the English masses has a real risk of another desperate moralist finding it and slamming it with bad rep. Another Rapelay would seriously be another staggering blow to the visual novel industry, as in a few bad apples spoil the bunch. This could cause many other companies to adopt Minori’s xenophobic attitude. Them stopping the translation was the right choice for them in their view, even if not everybody wins. Also, no matter what the facts say, foreigners are the minority to them, and thus they have little incentive to catering to us as a business. Not to mention the economy is still in a downturn (although it’s getting better) so very few companies will want to take risk such as foreign investment at a time like this. Maybe in the future when the economy recovers and grows, then companies will take risks like Nitro+ and Circus and try to venture overseas. But right now, you just can’t honestly blame Minori for what they did. Heh, I sound like a Minori fanboy when I don’t even like Minori that much… Key forever!

        • I’m with 6:50 anon and GHS on this one. If the English translation was released, there’s a chance it might be a big hit, and that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s good news. If some organisation decides to strike, that might very well bring down the VN/eroge industry.

          Besides, saying that the translation might bring sales to the games is pretty much inaccurate. Seeing as how the translations are often coupled with torrents of the games on sites other than those of the translators, it potentially takes away the chances of any gaijins attempting to buy the game. If you had a choice between downloading it for free or having to go through the hassle of ordering it through the net and waiting for it to arrive, it’s easy to see which is the better choice. Even though they don’t really care much about foreign sales, the release of the translation might very well mean almost no sales out of Japan, and unless you happen to be a minori fan like myself, you’ll be likely to find yourself downloading the game.

          About the “vandalism”, it might have been a rash action on minori’s part, but it is, after all, an act of trying to protect themselves or the industry, however wrong it may seem.

          With that said, I think that calling minori xenophobic is a little harsh, because this chain of events might never happen if not for whatever happened to VNs/eroges before this. Sure, it might sound biased with all these coming from a minori fanboy, but then it’s not like I didn’t explain myself. And as the minori slogan goes, “We always keep minority spirit”.

        • Thanks for proving my point. You can’t handle the truth of what’s happening so the best rebuttal you have is a lame insult, since that’s pretty much your highest point of intelligence.

          The only reason why anyone would consider my truthful answer as a trolling answer is due to the fact they actually were planning on pirating the game, and they can’t accept they’re performing something illegal. So thanks for all the negative votes because you’re enforcing my comments. 🙂

    • Basically, most people who play translated visual novels pirate said visual novels.

      Which does not change the fact that although piracy increases, sales also increase slightly. And unless the creator was planning to sell it internationally, it’s only advantageous to them.

    • Drivel.

      They promote a view of copyright in which people believe they are entitled to freely violate copyright – as can usually be seen in any discussion of the topic, with pirates typically leaping to rationalise their behaviour as entirely benign.

      The games themselves are also usually distributed along with the actual games on all but the originating group’s site.

      Non-Japanese speaking international fans simply do not buy Japanese eroge, anime or manga in any significant numbers, so your argument is spurious – piracy is the dominant mode of consumption.

      • but why would japanese buy/download an translated eroge?
        after all they can read japanese already…
        but my point is, while translation patches+iso are a no-go.
        purely translation patches should be ok.

        I happend to buy Chaos-H3ad ONLY after they translated it.
        And if there is a group willingly translating something on their freetime, shouldn´t that show the producer that there is interest in their product overseas too?

        So why not just working together?

      • You are confusing copyright with a moral issue. It isn’t. The only reason we have copyright is to try to entice creators to create more stuff for us to enjoy.
        Since Minori doesn’t publish the work in English, and thus doesn’t provide us with any benefit, it is clear that copyright law in this case overshoots. Clearly, copyright law is need of a bugfix.

      • If they would simply translate it, decently, and release it here, such as the titles sold on jast, they would have less of an issue.

        But then you can get into the debate of piracy in general and the eternal question… if someone pirates it, would they have bought it even if they could have? And if they never planned on buying it and pirated it, what sale did the company lose?

        As an author, I don’t like seeing my books go out for free. Then again, I know many of those were people that would not have paid for it in the first place.

        But I’m rambling.

      • Since Japanese eroge are rarely translated into other languages, and since a majority of the world’s population does not speak Japanese, and since non-Japanese speakers will not be able to use these games, there currently cannot be a non-Japanese market for these games. Since the games are translated only for non-Japanese speakers, the only people who would get and use the translated copies are people who are not within the market for these games. Ergo, no sales could be lost through this process.

        Piracy is the dominant mode of consumption, because there is no other mode of consumption. There is not and cannot be a difference between sales with or without piracy.

        Simply put, if they wanted to make profits from the international markets, they should have paid the fan translators and sold copies of the translated works instead of what they just did.

        • Thanto, I’m afraid logic isn’t allowed on the internet. You’re going to need to turn in your internet cred badge.

          You present the ideal solution (ever notice the similarity in translation of the Death Note fansubs and the OP official subs? I’m sure it was pure coincidence…) but the problem is most “old schooler” types don’t realize the collective boredom and fanaticism of the tubes are very exploitable resources. Others are a bit more successful with it *cough Touhou cough*.

          It is just like the old pirates, actually. People need to read their history. Privateers were pirates, only hired by a country to work for them. There’s a lot of mercenary pirates out there who would love the chance to be privateers for their “Targets”.

      • Actually, I believe the Umineko translation (supported by the original creator btw) has been pretty good for the game’s sales.

        I don’t have actual numbers, but I do know that I’ve already bought 3 copies of it and I can’t speak good enough Japanese to read the original VN.

      • So what? If they don’t make any effort towards international fans, AND insult them, then why should they be entitled to any money. If he wants to treat us like shit, then we might as well spit in his face like he does to his fans.

        Minori is a racist prick, so fuck him.

      • While it is true that Non-Japanese speaking international fans do not consume these products in a large, significant manner; in the case of minori, their target audience was always exclusively Japanese in Japan. Their xenophobia is further augmented when you notice 「日本国内専用」 dominates the back of their games. They really aren’t aiming for anything other than sales in the country.

        I don’t see how this may cause a loss in minori’s side. Other companies like Nitro+ and Circus at least are giving an attempt to harness and cater to the international fans in a logical way. It may or may not work in the long run for those companies, but hey, they’re not being asses with potential customers.

        • The funniest part is that the original source of the games are Japanese nationals who are distributing the game on Japanese p2p networks which is then sent across the far reaches of the world by said p2p. Unauthorized translations should be non-existent blips on their radars compared to their more domestic matters.

      • Are you suggesting that Non-Japanese speaking fans should go to the expense and time of actually learning Japanese so they can play untranslated eroge titles, Artefact? That seems ludicrous.

        Certainly, pirates have and can grab those fan-translated patches for their own nefarious uses, but you’re marginalizing and alienating the actual paying fans….. kind of like Minori just did when they pulled this act.

        Minori has proven to be unreceptive to any foreign markets and will lose out in the long run.

        • They are linked, only the intellectually dishonest could possibly deny it. The games are torrented with the patches and most people clearly view them as something to be torrented. Most distribution doesn’t even consider the issue of where to buy them.

        • aaahn, You missed the point. It would have been a good speech otherwise. This is actually a reverse defensive line fallacy. Rather than increasing the requirements for your opponent to win the argument your increasing the possibilities for you to win.(sounds good but it means your cheating)There is no case for fan translations encouraging pirating. You cannot construe that two things are the result of one another because they happen simultaneously. You only have a case against pirating which fan translations are a separate issue from. Lumping them together to make an easier target is a femnazi strategy. Stop and reread what you have written and thought and notice that you are starting to speak that way.

        • Where did I suggest that?

          I don’t mean verbatim, Artefact…. but that’s what it sounds like you’re suggesting.

          Otherwise all that’s left for us to do with what’s happened is sit with our collective thumbs up our asses. That’s why people are gonna vent over topics like this. you had to expect that writing this out, right?

        • Unfortunately, it’s a battle of Legal vs. Freedom.

          Everyone’s entitled to an opinion and the option to spout common sense in the face of legal systems, domestically or internationally, but it should be well-observed that just because you want something, doesn’t mean you can legally have it as it stares you in the face.
          Of course, you could argue that the legal system is simply flawed and corrupt and money-based over humanity itself, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s over-powered.
          If you are going to translate something against the rules, you have to be aware of the consequences or risk that you’ll get found out and have to take it down or get in trouble.

          Of course, if you really cared enough about it, you could go a step further into common sense and protest the legal system’s intention and objectives.
          It may seem pointless and futile, but if enough people could start thinking in that direction, maybe we wouldn’t be so restricted in the things we could legally do.
          Obviously, if that ever happens, be prepared for people who will cause other inhumane issues with their new-found freedom.

          Humanity itself never fails to impress.

      • I agree that most people just pirate games because with the cost of international shipping the prices get plain ridiculous. However, think about it another way: for people who don’t understand Japanese there’s absolutely no reason to buy the game unless there’s an English patch, official or not. Without an English patch the company or V/N in question wouldn’t get an publicity or sales anyway. If it’s a really good V/N then there are always at least a few people who end up buying it because they love it a lot. It’s a case of getting a few sales or nothing at all. Besides, in the end, the torrent is still usually there but nobody cares because they can’t read it. That said, Minori still has the right to do what they want.

        • Those japanese people need no translations. ^_^

          99% of the world does, though – and the publishers usually don’t provide. Minori seems to be a bunch of fags deserving to go bancrupt soon.

          Maybe all japanese game developers should – to make room for intelligenter people who see the whole world as their market, not just one country.

        • I think people misunderstand the problem of Minori as a company.
          It is indeed true that fan-translation patch might promote the selling of the said product, but that is really trivial. What worries them is that this product (be it Eden or not) is probably NOT made for international release but for Japan only. There might be things that are more or less “normal” in Japan, but not so elsewhere.
          It may sound silly but look at Rapelay, I doubt it was ever officially released outside Japan and yet it causes such huge international controversy and it is neglecting its sale.
          Eden may not have such content, but I think the company is simply being safe (it is an eroge after all), rather than getting those unnecessary “extra sales” which possibly equals to near nothing.

        • Ikuhisashiku says:

          > Without an English patch the company or V/N in question wouldn’t get an publicity or sales anyway.

          Alternatively, if all of them would simply produce their own translations, there would be no need for fantranslators AND they would experience a spike in international sales. Sadly, the companies in question are simply too slow to realize this fact.

        • Well, when you can import it that is. Unless you use proxies (real ones, that is, not internet ones) some games can’t be bought, plain and simple. Games sold only on Toranoana being a good example.
          So can minori games be bought by “馬鹿外人” (baka gaijin) ?