12-Year-Old Boy Faces Life Sentence for Murder

shoujo-shotgun-by-haneyoru

US courts have ruled that a boy accused of murdering his father’s pregnant girlfriend, whose brains were blown out with a shotgun the boy received as a Christmas present, must stand trial as an adult despite only being 11 when the crime was committed.

Prosecutors intend to charge him with first degree murder, carrying a possible life sentence without possibility of parole.

The 11-year-old boy lived on a Pennsylvania farm with his father, his father’s 26-year-old girlfriend and her children.

He is alleged to have become jealous of the attention the unborn child was likely to receive, having already been told to move out of his room to accommodate the baby.

Prosecutors allege he then decided to kill the mother, who was shot in the back of the head as she slept, with his shotgun.

He had apparently been given the “designed for children” 20-gauge shotgun as a Christmas present.

Both mother and the 8-month-old foetus expired as a result of the wound. The woman’s body was later discovered by her 4-year-old daughter, who alerted nearby adults.

suspect-shooter

The boy is said to have hid the gun under a blanket to avoid being spotted by one of the victim’s daughters prior to the shooting, and to have later thrown the spent casing from the shot into a ditch on his way to school.

Prosecutors are adamant the boy, now 12, bears criminal responsibility for the crime as grave as any adult:

“This offence was an execution-style killing of a defenceless pregnant young mother. A more horrific crime is difficult to imagine.”

He faces charges of one count of first degree murder and another of the “homicide” of an unborn child, carrying a possible life sentence, both of which he denies. He escapes the death penalty, which the state limits to those over 14.

A prosecution psychiatrist interrogating the child found he “minimised” the allegations against him, and the judge accepted these arguments in ruling that he would not be eligible for a juvenile trial as he was insufficiently remorseful for the crimes he is accused of (but denies committing).

The judge remarked that a refusal to admit the (unproven) allegations means the boy is unlikely to be fit for rehabilitation:

“Rehabilitation within the confines of the juvenile court jurisdiction [is] likely to be unsuccessful”

Pennsylvania law allows anyone over 10 charged with murder to be tried as an adult, though the boy’s legal defence argues that a child so young could not possibly be tried as such, and say they will appeal the ruling.

Lawyers also point out that denying him a juvenile trial because he refuses to admit to his crimes fully is likely to be a violation of his constitutional rights.

The mother of the murdered woman is vengefully dismissive about the legal fracas surrounding the case:

“There was no reason for uncertainty in our eyes. We’re pleased.”

The case raises issues wider than just the age of criminal responsibility, which varies wildly in the developed world and even between states – an 11-year-old boy is apparently fully responsible for his actions should he kill someone, but on the other hand unable to consent to sex or much else.

Media and courts also appear to have conveniently overlooked the issue of who allowed an 11-year-old boy to have his own shotgun.

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385 Comments

        • I live in Texas, and yeah, it is true that you can own an anti-tank rifle.

          Down here everybody and their little sister owns at least one gun.

          Some people that I have met have better storage for their own guns then for their kids or much less themselves.

          However you have to apply for a special license for the “heavy duty” legal firearms.

          Even I am packing some heat when I go down to the grocery store to get a carton of milk.

        • lol@anon
          “i had i 20gauge shotgun when i was ten…the difference was that my parants showed me how to work it and took me threw hunters safety before i was aloud to touch it. they also had trigger locks on all the guns in the house. this is cleary the fathers fault for not taking proper safety precautions”
          surely he knew? he just happened to sneak up on his father’s girlfriend while the safety was off and the gun loaded…OOPS I ACCIDENTALLY SHOT HER IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD!?. BHAHAHAHHAHAHHAH
          YOU’RE A FKN DUMB KENT.

        • “you cant blame the gun though, any only morons who fully trust police would say anything against them.”

          Statistically speaking people who owns/carries guns are substantially more likely to get hurt than people who don’t. Only an idiot would trust their guns and their ability to use them to defend themselves.

        • Blame guns because you wouldn’t go into a knife fight unless you have a gun just as you won’t go on a murderous rampage if you only have a paper fan or a bat.

          Why aren’t you going on a murderous rampage now? Because you are going to get hurt faster without a gun. The lack of a gun is a deterrent in it self.

        • BloodLegacy says:

          By Anti-Tank guns, I’m pretty sure he is refering to a 20mm anti-armor rifle, not necessarely an AT-4 or LAW. It isn’t very difficult to get a tax stamp for a “destructive device” which is the category a 20mm rifle falls under. It is a much different case for “explosive ordinance” which is the category an RPG or plastic explosives fall under. Those are very difficult to get because you have to prove intent, meaning you have to have a damn good reason for needing it, such as owning a company that makes vehicle armor for the military or such. To get a ‘destructive device’ rifle, “I want it” is a good enough reason.

          I support a father that would give his son a shotgun at 12, so long as he is properly trained on safety and the child does not have free access to it. So this father is a failure.

          Either the parents completely failed at teaching the kid right and wrong, or the kid is a true sociopath which the parents should have realized a long time ago and kept any kind of dangerous object way the hell away from him.

        • Anonymous says:

          In rural areas, that’s quite reasonable. Good for practicing hunting. A lot of poor, rural Americans hunt to put extra meat on their tables. Free food!

          The problem was not locking up the shotgun so it couldn’t be used without parental permission. Any family that gives a shotgun to an 11 year old, probably has several more rifles and shotguns around.

          The problem is that the kid is too young to understand the consequences of killing the girlfriend. You know, going to jail until he’s 18/21/life. He’s 11. Trying him as an adult is ridiculous. It isn’t like he was 17 and 11 months. The kid is too young to work a non-entertainment job, enlist with the marines, buy land, drive a car legaly, etc.

        • Anonymous says:

          09:57 31/03/2010
          Let me use another approach, if you have a gun you are more likely to think you’ll succeed in robbing a store or commit a successful crime than if you only have a bat. Doesn’t matter if the other guy has a gun or the chance of failure is death, you’ll just shoot him faster and you’ll obtain whatever goal you wanted. It’s worth the risk since you trust in yourself and your ability to out shoot the store owner(or burglar in your house – you can ambush them like a mugger or robber can ambush their victims).

          A gun lowers the threshold on which a person would commit violence more so in the current media where we’re realistically shown a gun could kill easier than with a knife or bat.

          If you want to go on a murderous rampage you’d think a lot more with a knife and bat and kill a lot less school students since you can kill them as easily as a single shot to the back of a head.

        • Smiling Jack says:

          The gun argument aside, he obfuscated the shotgun from view, did the crime then attempted to dispose of the spent shell. That clearly shows premeditation. So he had the intent to kill whether he had the gun or not, he could have just as easily slit her throat with a kitchen knife and if anything he might have gotten away with that.

        • You think your government will play nice just because you own guns? XD

          And lol @ burglar deturant. Have you people even looked at your crime rates comparing to other countries? What’s the matter with your kind?

        • i should also point out i don’t own a gun, and im 2 other anons in this little reply chain.

          other country just dont get it.

          we won our country a few hundred years ago

          we had to fight for it, while other countrys rolled over and took it for hundreds of more years.

          having a gun is a right for a reason, because we had to fight a government. and they knew the day would come we many need to fight again.

          having guns is a deturant for the government just as much as it is a burglar deturant.

        • Who cares how he killed her?

          Do you honestly think it was an accident? He pointed a GUN at her!

          If he thought the gun was a toy, then the father is at fault since he did not educate the boy about guns. You can’t have people evade responsibility because they are a child. Kid plays with matches and starts a fire that burns down 10,000 houses. Are you saying the government is suppose to pick that up for ONE KID?! This child can’t even make that money in his lifetime and he screwed that many families.

        • .. he would have found something else.. his fathers gun, his brothers.. used a knife, a bat, a crochet needle.. etc…

          Fuck the Gun thing.. “He” Killed her.. pre meditated.. Give him the Chair for all I care..

          all around America people hunt.. teach there kids to hunt.. just becasue Your country outlaws it doesn’t give ya’ll the right to condemn us for hunting…

          They find something else outlaw guns.. they go to knives.. outlaw knives they go to bricks.. etc. etc. etc…..

          And with way things are goin.. I wish i had an arsenal… Fully Automatic Preferably Belt Fed!

        • If the kid didn’t have the gun he would’ve used something else. He’s obviously fucked in his head. That doesn’t make giving an 11 year old a shotgun any less stupid of course.

        • i had i 20gauge shotgun when i was ten…the difference was that my parants showed me how to work it and took me threw hunters safety before i was aloud to touch it. they also had trigger locks on all the guns in the house. this is cleary the fathers fault for not taking proper safety precautions

        • Umm… I’m not going on a murderous rampage because I don’t have a gun, I am not going on a murderous rampage because I have a brain. What kind of logic is that?

          Actually I have access to a gun, my roommate has one and so did my last one. When never killed anyone or shot ourselves because we have brains. But if someone ever breaks in, I can shoot them as opposed to being shot, stabbed, or attacked in some other way.

          I would rather have my own defense. Police are worthless most of the time.

        • some people are dumb enough to give a 11 year old a shotgun, and than tell him to get the fuck out of his room for a baby.

          you cant blame the gun though, any only morons who fully trust police would say anything against them.

          lets say you witness a murder, you testify because thats the “right thing to do”. but because one cop fucked there paperwork, the whole case is thrown out of court.

          the killer knows your face, and most likely your name, and its not hard to look up anything about a person with only those details.

          now do you know that cops will do nothing unless a crime is committed? and this is the truth, look at stalkers for prime examples, even if you know there is a threat against you, cops will do nothing.

          so what do you trust more.

          1 the cops who do nothing to help you
          2 when you are dead they dont fuck the paper work again
          or
          3 a handgun, even a small 22 revolver

          im taking a guess its number 3.

          or lets say you see a gang shooting and the police know for a fact you saw it. you cant say you wont testify because they will put your ass in prison, and if you do, the gang members are likely to retaliate, and again police will not protect you from them unless a crime is committed.

        • Hey, did anyone actually blame gun? No, we’re blaming the stupid fucking law that lets stupid fucking people give their stupid fucking kids guns to kill themselves and others with. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people, SO STOP FUCKING ENCOURAGING THEM!

        • Tex_Arcana says:

          What?!? Antitank weapons? I think I’d have heard.

          First of all, firearms legislation on that scale is usually Federal. Otherwise there’d be a brisk trade in AT4-smuggling.

          Most likely someone got it confused with a .50 rifle, which could maybe penetrate a civilian car. Defeating modern armor plate requires either HEAT ammo (so not legal) or shaped charges, like you said.

        • Yeah blame guns. Not the people that use them with no common sense. The guns are living sentient beings. They are possessing the minds of stupid people in order to cause mayhem and destruction. I swear some of you people are just idiots.

        • 07:03 31/03/2010 – You obviously need to understand more of what people say, they’re not blaming guns, they’re blaming the person who gave the kid a fucking gun you moron.

          As for this case, it’s simply stupid, the kid was being neglected and was given a shotgun by an irresponsible adult who was the one who had no common sense, mind that you certain Anon.
          Man, growing up in prison till you die from the age of 12…that’s fucking harsh, no education, no proper growing environment, etc… I mean, 10 – 20 years in prison could really do the trick, but still, life sentence is…too much.

        • Designed for children only in the meaning that it uses 20-gauge which means a lighter recoil for a smaller individual to handle. There are even smaller shotgun gauges though. In any case, hunting with your kids by your side is big in some parts of the country.

        • a knife is way harder to kill ppl with. stabbing someone in the scull will take a whole lot of force and a sharp knife. plus its a lot harder to execute mentally. the pull of a trigger isnt heavy enough especially with “designed for children” shotgun. why are shotguns designed for children anyway?

        • And the chances of her surviving that would be higher.
          A knife to the skull? She may be brain dead but there’s a possibility of the baby living.

          Or she might be a Counter Strike Player.

      • Honestly, I’d far rather be able to own a gun, and therefore protect myself, than live in a place such as England where they are illegal; Criminals will still have the damn things, if they have them I want one to protect myself.

        Just check crime rates, see if it’s higher where guns are controlled vs where they are not.

        • I love how all the ignorant idiots blame it on firearms and/or US firearm policies.

          Firearms ARE controlled in the US. Not just anyone can get them. You have to go through a background check to buy a firearms among other restrictions.

          It is a WHOLE different story if the parents are IDIOTS. So since when did we start letting the government make OUR decisions? It is the parents responsibility for their own kids. The father in this case should have his RIGHTS stripped from him and never allowed to own firearms again…or anything dangerous…obviously he is irresponsible.

          Those that do not live in the USA….you guys got your rights stripped long ago and have become accustomed to the big brother mentality. In other words sheep.

          I happen to enjoy my FUNDAMENTAL rights living in the USA. Even though the USA is also heading in the big brother mentality…boy am i glad i would be dead by the time it has progressed far enough like other super restrictive countries…example England.

          The topic of firearms in the USA is so complex and there are so many examples i can write a whole essay about it…which obviously i will refrain from here.

          Which i want to also mention there are other European countries that are much more laxed about their firearm laws than the USA. Dont blame firearms….blame it on the stupidly high percentage of idiots in the USA.

        • Smiling Jack says:

          Don’t forget Ted Bundy, killed and raped over 26 women and did it without a gun… or violent video games. Monsters and evil will always find a way to intentionally kill or harm others regardless of whether or not a gun is involved.

        • America here. We don’t all have guns. Not all criminals have guns either. Seriously, do you think that when someone is born in America they give him a gun after they cut the umbilical cord?

        • “More “peaceful” unarmed citizens have been slaughtered by their own governments then will ever be killed by homicide.”

          Um, anyone in America who decides to rise up against their government gets called a traitor and a terrorist and locked up/killed. I love the hypocrisy, you keep all your guns to protect yourself from the evil government, but you beat down anyone who speaks out against it for being anti-american…

        • member548 has it right you need it to protect yourself from the government and criminals. I have been around guns for a very long time and never had one accidentally go off. its simple one dont point it at someone unless you intend to kill them and two if your cleaning it make sure its empty with a visual inspection three keep em locked up away from others.

        • Living in a European country myself, I have to say that most criminals actually don’t have a firearm.

          It’s a common misconception in USA I think, because you are so used to the availability of firearms you think that everyone can get them if they want to, but most “small fry” criminals over here if they use a weapon at all use a knife to threaten people with. The trouble and costs involved getting a illegal gun is just to high.

          Real actual firearms are mostly seen in more serious crime like bank/security transport robberies and similar crime, which also is quite uncommon, probably partially due to it being rather hard to get a hold of real serious firearms.

        • Yes, because it’s not like if a person plans to execute someone and they don’t have a gun that they’ll just say “oh darn, I lack a firearm, I guess I won’t kill this person after all!”

          No, the kid would have just gotten a knife from the kitchen and stabbed her, or any number of other methods of killing someone that are readily accessible in a household.

        • Hahaha… plenty of countries have lower crime rates and a death sentence for anyone found with a firearm. Plenty.

          Admit it. Allowing guns with the argument that it is for personal safety is just retarded. If no one is allowed firearms under any conditions at all, it can only be a good thing. Sure people can still kill each other millions of other ways, but at least they can walk into a shopping mall, school, etc and shoot tens of people before getting arrested.

        • Sure criminals might still have them, but at a guess (I repeat a guess). The criminals that would have them would be using them as a threat, not to kill people.

          I’d say you’re probably more likely to get shot if an unstable person has a gun lying around the house, then because organised criminals want to rob something.

        • They ARE higher where guns aren’t controlled. In fact, you’re much more likely to shoot yourself or a family members (like this case) than a criminal if you own one.

          That said, although I’ve always found the argument for individual gun ownership being guaranteed in the 2nd amendment extremely tenuous at best, it’s not entirely without merit to allow gun ownership, but it has to be controlled or else you get a lot of stupid shit like this happening.

        • lol….then enjoy living in your beautiful country that does not give you a fundamental right to defend yourself.

          Though i have to wonder what country that must be….you must be an angel thats sitting in your computer from heaven…..safe from all harm.

          99.9 percent of the countries must suck to live in then….and we should all flock to the .1 percent of countries in earth that are a safe paradise…if they exist.

          OR your probably an idiot whos a sheltered lil boy.

          All you spew is garbage and are pushing your own pathetic values onto other people.

          REGARDLESS whether the boy killed with a shotgun, it does not matter. He would have killed the girlfriend with a knife if he did not have access to a firearm. Im pretty sure the courts thinking must be the same….thats why they will trial him as an adult. They dont want psychos out in the streets.

          Please step out of your parents basement…..welcome to the real world.

        • Anonymous says:

          A, the worthless “I can defend myself” argument.

          You paranoid pricks. You have the same probability of being killed by someone who “breaks in” (who anyway? Why not live in a country where there’s nobody who’d “break in”) as someone who doesn’t own a gun.

          It’s pure luck if you survive or not. Whether you shoot someone who “breaks ins” is rather irrelevant, it basically just makes you a killer too.

          I’d rather live in a safe country where you dont even need to fear someone “breaking in”, which just statistically happen to be the countries that do not have such liberal gun policies.

    • Stupidity amongst backwards thinking nra nuts will always lead to idiotic bullshit like this. Some bullshit psychiatrist will probably go and blame it on a a fucking video game instead of this kids nitwit father.

      • Anonymous says:

        NRA Nuts would have kept the kid’s shotgun locked up with his firearms, and not let the kid have a letahl weapon unsupervised.

        Poor NRA freaks are funny— as they drive old shit box cars or trucks, live in a house desperately in need of work, and have many expensive gun locker cabinents stocked full of rifles and shotguns.

    • So many fking questions to ask

      1) why does a 11 year have a shotgun for a gift?

      2) “Rehabilitation within the confines of the juvenile court jurisdiction [is] likely to be unsuccessful”

      WTF kind of fucking statement is that? He did terrible shit, but he is still a fucking kid. Kids are easier to fucking rehabilitate then adults fucking retard.

      To me it sounds like a fucking dumbass hick town with a fucked up hick family with a dumbass 2 cent judge.

      My fellow hick ass Americans make me rage. It is like a whole different country you when go to fucking hick country.

      • Anonymous says:

        “it is like a whole different country ”

        What most people fail to understand is the United States of America, is exactly that, a bunch of *States*….as in COUNTRIES.

        Too many people are used to thinking of the USA as one big ugly monster headed by the Federal Government.

        In reality it’s fifty little ugly monsters constantly bribed and blackmailed by the Federal Government into compliance. (by threatening to withhold federal tax dollars).

    • I was given a Pellet Rifle when I was 6 but my parents wouldn’t let me use it unless they were around. They kept it locked up with my Dad’s guns till I was double digits, then they let me keep it.

      When I was ten my old man took me into the woods and let me shoot his guns, but then again I was supervised and he kept those things under lock and key.

      But I did shoot a kid in the back with my Pellet Rifle once when he refused to get the fuck out of my yard (I really didn’t like that kid, he came over and was riding his bike around in my yard; I told him to leave over and over yet he wouldn’t, so I shot him). Ahh that was classic and totally worth the grounding… Got to keep the gun too.

    • He had apparently been given the “designed for children” 20-gauge shotgun as a Christmas present.

      So, a shotgun so easy to use a child could commit murder? How nice. <_<

      *makes a note of what to not get his nephew for Christmas in the years to come.*

      The other inanity I noticed is that they’re charging him as an adult here. What’s this? Too young to knock boots, but old enough to be charged as an adult for murder? Huh.

      And people wonder why I’m so cynical of government.

    • One designed for kids no less…

      One can only hope the guards at the prison he is in put him in a cell with the biggest baddest mother fucker in the prison. Spending the rest of his life as a punk wouldn’t be a fitting punishment.

  • I remember when this happened and it is atrocious. The kid should face the death penalty. Every gang in the USA uses 8 to 14 year old kids mostly males but they do use females to kill people. Its part of the initiation to the gang in steps. Most of the burglary rings, with our with gang membership, use 6 to 9 year old kids because they can fit through partially open windows. The 4 to 12 year old kids also circle the yard of the house being robbed and the stash house the items are being stored in. So the kids like this one knew very well what they were doing and that if the got caught it would be very very very bad for them and their families. The kid should be put to death for killing those 3.

  • What's with Americans and their obsession with guns really? Even though I got a gun license, I am not going to give one to anyone as a gift. The father is to be blame partially for giving the young red neck a firearm period.

  • Vermont is one of the safest states in America. At some point, maybe even now, it had the least gun-related violence despite the highest number of carries. An armed society can be both a polite, peaceful society like Vermont or a hellhole like Somalia.

    Guns DO increase the safety of people with the right training in the right circumstances. The idiots are those who say guns are evil or good regardless of circumstance or training.

  • Sandalphon says:

    “Whether it’s a dangerous home invader, or a heavily armed housecat, America: protect your rights, and protect yourselves…. peepeepeepeepeepeepeepeepeepeepeepeepeepeepeepeepeepeepeepeepeepeepeepeepee”

  • Anonymous says:

    I’m a soldier stationed in AK where the law states any state resident may carry a concealed weapon (with exception of properties with policy against concealed weapons).
    The commanding general MG Troy has deemed US ARMY soldiers to immature to carry firearms off duty unless on a preplanned hunting trip or on an approved firing range. USAF USN & USCG do not have such a policy as they have been proven to conduct themselves as adults when off duty.

  • I’m not sure which is more fucked up here the fact someone gave their 11 year old son a shot gun or the fact the courts in Pennsylvania will charge a 10 year old as an adult.
    Hasn’t medical science pretty much crucified the notion that a child has the same mental capacity as an adult?

    Really the father is largely to blame here also should look into if the kid was abused by said girl friend.
    She could have been abusive or was blackmailing the father like that waste of carbon atoms Rena killed in Higurashi.
    Of course an 11 year old would not be able to handle this situation properly esp if a gun was accessible.

    I’d love to have some time alone with the prosecutors of this case so long as I’m immune to being charged with assault.

    Really the only thing they can do is lock him up in a mental hospital until he is 18 and then release him under supervision.

    The father should face charges for child endangerment for not locking up the gun when not in use.

  • Anonymous says:

    For the anti-gun-nuts… just something you should know. If you’re interested in the science of the matter, many studies have been done. The final conclusion is this: Gun ownership in a society has no effect on violent crime. None whatsoever. It doesn’t increase it, and it doesn’t decrease it. Violent crime is completely unrelated to guns, and is a purely social issue. There are countries with no guns that have extremely high rates of murder and other violent crime, countries that have extremely high rates of gun ownership and no crime, countries that have extremely high rates of gun ownership and tons of crime, etc. What IS affected by the general population owning guns is the government. Countries in which the general population own guns are, in general, freer countries. Aside from just gun laws, they also have fewer restrictions on speech, journalism, and other factors of life. In countries with extreme control of guns, the government feels free to oppress their citizens since they’re the ones with all the guns (the government is, that is).

    • Anonymous says:

      America doesn’t need restriction on speech and journalism. They have better ways of information control that are less obvious than others.

      And lol @ other countries being oppressive. You people crack me up.

  • Anonymous says:

    In my country, there is a problem with underage criminals.
    Laws are too gentle with kids thus adults tend to hire kids to do the dirtiest part of the job.
    Thus we have a lot of murdering kids. This kids are criminals and will most likely grow to be just as dangerous as any other criminal.

    This case is different though, this kid just seems retarded. Sending him to rot for all his life in a cell all bonus paid by the government seems unnecessary and stupid.

    • “guns dont kill people, people kill people!” – but guns sure do make it a lot easier!

      Killing another person with a knife takes dedication on a whole different level than shooting someone with a gun. Killing with knife is very personal, you need to get in close, you will be within arms reach of the victim as he/she dies, maybe even have full body contact, and you are likely to end up covered in blood yourself.

      Not to mention the overhanging risk of a struggle that you might end up loosing…

      Killing someone with a gun on the other hand is done from a distance, just aim pull the trigger watch the splatter… almost like watching TV. Pulling the trigger is cold, clean and convenient, and it is a lot easier, both mentally and physically for someone to do.

  • You see?

    You can easily see the kid would not bother killing the woman if he didn’t have a gun. You can also see, he probably doesn’t have the guts to actually bash/stab/burn someone to death.

    Down with the firearms policy!

    I blame the combination of American culture and its gun policy as the true cause.

    “designed for children” my ass

  • Seems like she was one of those typical step mothers where she hates her non-blood related children, though.

    I mean, she told him to move out of his room? Fuck that. I feel no sympathy for both victim and accused.

  • savantique says:

    You people are incredible.

    You’re telling me that this boy was so stupid and/or naive to understand what would happen if he shot her in the back of the head with a shotgun? Did you people somehow skim over the actions he took to make his intent to murder this poor woman less transparent? One would think that those of you who defend this child on the basis of him being a child would feel more sympathy towards the unborn baby being taken in tow.

    The kid knew what he was doing or he wouldn’t have done it and the father conveniently provided him with the only tool he’d ever need to get the job done as quickly and as efficiently as possible. Those of you defending the right to bear arms in this scenario are completely retarded. This was never an issue of self defense; this was entirely about the introduction of a gun in the household, to a minor no less, being the end of a family.

    • That comment ain’t helping, besides more crazy things happen outside USA. Anyway, It’s a sad story anyhow for it all to end this way. 11-year old kid sentenced to life in prison. DAMN! I’m not suprised at how many crazy things are being done in this country or others. Everyday stuff like this happens, although I did not think that Pennslyvania had a law to have young kids trialed as adult when they are over 10 years old. Only scenario I think up of this is that kid will never see the whole world for the rest of his life. I doubt he’ll last a year in jail. It’s sad, and somebody is an idiot for somehow letting a shotgun end up in a boy’s hands. No common sense/knowledge whatsoever, letting this kid make every negative thought about what he was going to do with the pregnant lady become real. *sighs* what kind of irresponsible people are letting these distraught kids doing things that gets them in jail?

    • Again, an idiot talking about what he knows not. It was NOT a 12 Gauge, it was a 20 Gauge which is CONSIDERABLY less powerful and typically only used for bird, squirrel, rabbit, or varmit hunting.

      And who the fuck said his father was a ‘farmer’?

      Know what you’re talking about before you open your ignorant mouth.

  • With all due respect to the article writers on Sankaku Complex…. giving someone who is only 10-12 a shotgun on their birthday is a WELL KNOWN tradition in parts of the country where duck hunting and other sport hunting is done.

    • That is highly likely seeing as it was a 20 gauge. He might even have been believed it would be non fatal and would only kill the fetus.

      Usually a small gauge like that and bird shot doesn’t kill people for that you usually need a 12 gauge and buck load.

      See the example of the lawyer Dick Cheney shot and he was an old man.

  • “Media and courts also appear to have conveniently overlooked the issue of who allowed an 11-year-old boy to have his own shotgun.”

    Excuse me, but there’s nothing wrong with young people using firearms. However there is a LOT wrong with failing to teach anyone, child or otherwise, respect and proper handing of firearms, as well as failing to keep the firearms out of the child’s hands except when properly instructed…. Learn the difference. This anti-firearms “ohmaigosh! Let’s blame guns!” mentality is ridiculous.

    The child should be held responsible for his acts and the parents should be held responsible for raising such a worthless sack of meat. It’s as simple as that.

  • If the kid spends the rest of his life rotting in jail, he probably deserves it.

    Killing a woman in her sleep with a shotgun means this kid had some sick plans.

    Also, since there doesn’t seem to be any mental problems, no getting help in an institution which the kid may need

  • A freaking shotgun?!? I think there’s 1 more person who should be held accountable here.

    When I was 12, I was given a rifle style BB gun & only allowed to use it while under my grandpa’s supervision.

    • I had a 22 rifle around that age, but it was with proper supervision and training from an Army dad.

      Big difference.

      Still, the fucking bleeding heart anti-firearm douchebags don’t understand things like blaming the parents for being such human failures.

  • Right to bear arms

    Not Right to shotgun sleeping mother on the back of the head cause I got MAD cause I was kicked out of my room because of some fking unborn baby. Ffs it’s MY ROOM.

  • Whoa, some real wtf’s in this one.

    Giving a kid a shotgun for christmas? Really!?
    That mugshot of him definitely makes him look like a killer.
    The death penalty limit for Pennsylvania is 14? So a 15 year old can potentially be killed if convicted?

  • Guns are not the problem. Gun safety isn’t even the problem.

    The problem, friends, is upbringing in general. People these days just don’t have the moral and common sense that they used to. I would wager most people today are “unfit” parents, the result being 11-year-olds who think it okay to skull-blast their father’s pregnant girlfriend.

    Firearms have around for a long time, and only recently has it become a societal issue. Something else is wrong here.

  • If the child knows the full extent of his actions and understands the value of his act and intent, then he’s guilty by Penn law. There’s really not much of an argument here.

    If the court really was to overturn a conviction, they’d be blatantly going against the laws that Penn legislators and the people who voted them in decided to make law. If anything, they bear some responsibility for what happens here; 10 is too young to be tried as an adult for homicides unless the Pennslyvania folks really felt that this law was necessary.

  • You can have all the opinions you want about guns, knives, sharp sticks, rocks, cars, gardening tools, pit bulls, and every other thing that one can use to injure or kill someone but what scares the crap out of me is the United States justice system and a DA that has the win/lose fixation rather than a sense of justice.
    The U.S. needs to quit charging it’s children as adults. If you are not adult enough to screw, drink, drive a car, vote or sign a contract why would you be adult enough to be charged as an adult.

  • As with anything you have to TEACH the person, child or otherwise, what to do and what not to do. Even so, it is hard to believe this kid didn’t know that pulling the trigger would end her life.

    Just the looks of this kid screams “I’m fucked up!” so I do think him not having a gun would of helped anything. He did it to her in her sleep. He could of used a knife or pillow and got the job done. Blaming this on a gun is bullshit.

    Gun control my fat, otaku ass. Batshit insane kids are batshit insane.

        • Well yeah, but it evens the playing field for the poor bears.

          The bigger bears (brown, kodiak, and polar) probably remember us as feisty little furless tasty treats…. up until we invented the first fire-hardened spears at any rate. Then bows made it even more unfair. And don’t even get started on firearms when they were getting more accurate. You could shoot in your sleep, practically.

          So… vicious cycle, or karma coming home to roost?

  • Isn’t there a law which bans people from being stupid with guns, like a “carelessness with firearms” kind of thing? Oh wait, of course not. You’d have to have sense to come up with that.

    Sure, Mass Effect and GTA, and Modern Warfare are products of Satan, but a shotgun to your 11-year-old son? Why not 2?

    This is exactly why people “legitimately” think guns should be banned.

  • if he was going to kill her, he should have first lend her to some guys to rape then kill her.at least he would make some money and enjoy a moment of happiness before he goes to jail

  • Well, I can’t wait to see how the motherfucking firearms lobby tries to defend this. America, you once again prove yourselves to be fucking stupid with your mindless gun fetish claiming two more lives.

    The “age of criminal responsibilitY” issue is a bit tough, though. At 11 I’m honestly not sure if he could be considered responsible for his actions. If he’d been 13 or 14 and had at least spent a couple of years in high school in the company of older kids I’d have no doubt he’d need to be locked up, but at 11 I just don’t know. Especially if, since he was given his very own shotgun, he just drew the conclusion that if he has a problem, then it was OK to use his father’s present to solve it. Either way, his father should DEFINITELY be charged as well.

  • UncommonOtaku says:

    Tex_Arcana said:
    What?!? Antitank weapons? I think I'd have heard.

    First of all, firearms legislation on that scale is usually Federal. Otherwise there'd be a brisk trade in AT4-smuggling.

    Most likely someone got it confused with a .50 rifle, which could maybe penetrate a civilian car. Defeating modern armor plate requires either HEAT ammo (so not legal) or shaped charges, like you said.

    only a 50 cal?

    a .223 is enough to ventillate most modern cars these days

    • Uh…a .223 cal is considerably smaller than a .50 cal. Even if you don’t know anything about guns, there’s basic mathematics.

      Sorry if I misinterpreted, but you saying “only” a .50 cal is pretty confusing.

  • Barbarian of Gor says:

    “Justice by Points” in AmeriKKKa again.

    District Attorneys live and die by their “Score”. As long as they have a good one, they can get away with about anything, but if they let it drop or have a real bad one, they are out the door and sink pretty low in the legal profession. The prosecutors in the McMartin case were fired, not for willfully prosecuting -twice- people they knew were innocent, but for all the money and time wasted to not get a single conviction.

    Once in a while they have to prosecute a “Drug Lord” or a businessman found embezzling or the child of a rich man playing “Jack the Ripper”. These guys have good lawyers who attack like rabid pit bulls.

    So, to keep up their “Score” and fill it with high value issues, they look for “Easy targets”.

    That is why teenage girls flirting with their cell phones become “Child Pornographers”. “Points” for the Prosecutor since the crime is decided guilty before court. Likewise, this boy is “Points” to the prosecutor, justice is a lie.

  • Stupid, the boy must be molested to death by new-born-christian professionals. If you are not 18 you don’t know what sex is and you are a VICTIM whatever the circumstances. However. If…

  • One thing the USA (atleast certain states) does right. 11+ year olds given trial as adults. The boy knew bloody well what would happen if he pulled that trigger, and did the whole thing planned ahead.

    If we had such draconic laws over here there would be less of these shitty teenage wannabe gangsters robbing and beating people to death over a fucking cigarette.

  • Here’s a thought; why the hell would you give an 11 year old a shotgun, let alone any other gun?
    Furthermore, why the HELL would you give live ammo and then proceed to leave it within reach of said 11 year old? If you’re going to buy the kid a gun, at least hold onto it for safekeeping until you let him handle it for its intended purpose, not murder.

  • Does it really matter if father gave the kid a gun? It was obviously premeditated. Who says he wouldn’t have just gotten the key to a hypothetical gun cabinet and shot her anyway? Or hell took a knife and repeatedly stabbed her in the stomach in her sleep? He knows what he did, and it was stated he felt no remorse for it.

    • This is the fallacy most gun owners fall into. Having your own gun gives you a sense of empowerment that makes you believe you can do whatever you want, in this case shoot someone. He could have stolent his dad’s gun, but it’s not his own gun. He’s borrowing someone else’s “empowerment” so is more hesitant in using it. A knife is less empowering than a gun since there’s a good chance the girlfriend could knock it out of his hands and kick his ass.

      • @ Anon 06:26 :

        Yes, it does matter that the father gave his minor child a gun without — or so it seems — carefully evaluating whether or not the child was ready for that responsibility.

        @ Anon 06:41 :

        “Having your own gun gives you a sense of empowerment that makes you believe you can do whatever you want, in this case shoot someone”

        You’re confusing “access to power” with “mis-use of power”. They are different things.

        I own a gun, and have the *capability* of shooting some random person, or specific person I’m jealous of; that does *not* give me a belief that it would be okay to do so.

      • Absolute fucking bullshit.
        The empowerment of a gun has nothing to do with it. A gun is so empowering that you could EASILY kill a person who is three times your size and weight, can bench press a fucking car, and is standing but a few feet away, awake.

        The child did it WHILE SHE WAS SLEEPING.
        He didn’t NEED empowerment.
        A sleeping person is an easy target.
        Even a child could kill a grown adult who IS SLEEPING.
        WITHOUT using a gun OR a “weapon”.
        MANY household objects would have sufficed just as easily to kill an unconscious target WITHOUT exerting much effort.

        This was PREMEDITATED murder on a SLEEPING person.

  • This why guns should be banned in the US. The right to bear arms is just stupid and doesn’t even apply today’s society. We have a higher crime rate where a majority of it involve guns. Don’t try to even defend guns saying “how can we defend ourselves then?” bullshit. The attacker will probably be using a knife, you can easily stop a knife wielding attacker in many ways without getting yourself hurt and blades are a lot less threatening nowadays.

  • As per the standard, very few of you have a clue as to what the fuck you’re talking about.

    This boy did not, on a whim, just pick up a weapon and fire, he planned it out. That’s premeditated murder. He hid the gun and planned to kill her. And you all think that’s OK and that he shouldn’t be on trial as an adult. Hey, let’s not punish him at all… A few years in juvie is NOT punishment enough for the murder of a woman and unborn child. He should face murder charges as an adult, any child that murders should be tried as an adult.

    Gun safety is something that should be taught by a parent and the child should not have access to the firearm without supervision. That was the parent’s fault. This was a HUNTING shotgun and not a toy. Just because it’s design is smaller so that a child can use it easier doesn’t mean it’s any less deadly.

    You all like to bash on the US for our “Right to bear arms.” That was put into our constitution in order to fascilitate the ousting of a corrupt government by the people of our nation and to protect themselves and their property. Our fore fathers had the sight to see that, having escaped one corrupt government, their own may one day become corrupt.

    • Oh, you are right madam. An 11 year old understands the world and is capable of plotting things that change lives. Thats why the age of consent is 18 or even 21, isn’t it?

      People like you are the reason why I doubt democracy. Wipe the puke from your mouth and grow some brains. A**h*l*

      • Hiding the weapon from view and throwing away the discarded shell afterwards is not plotting… right.

        And you’re bringing up Age of Consent? That’s something society made up. Do you suddenly gain maturity when you hit 18? Why can’t a 17 year old be mature? Because society says so.

        People mature at different rates. Some people in their 30’s are dumber than a teenager.

  • What’s with all the posts blaming the father?
    He obviously couldn’t predict the future, all he knew was that his child wanted a gun. So he bought one.
    On this basis you could blame the manufacturer of the gun, the constitution that allowed owning a gun, the police that didn’t prevent the crime, the girlfriend for not locking her room and not wearing a bulletproof gear.

    • “…all he knew was that his child wanted a gun. So he bought one.” You seem to have made the mistake of thinking that, just because it is technically LEGAL to give a child a firearm, it is not a PHENOMENALLY FUCKING STUPID IDEA. If the kid had killed his father rather than his father’s girlfriend the guy would be up for a Darwin Award, that’s how stupid it was! The father should probably be charged with manslaughter for being stupid enough to give a deadly weaspon to an immature little fuck who he had clearly made no effort to raise to have any level of responsibility or morality.

      And besides, a lot of us (like me) ARE blaming the constitution that allowed owning the gun. Because it’s fucking stupid.

      • Anonymous says:

        I agree guns should be made illegal.I live in america and everyone in this town has a gun and its ridiculous.Ive even been to funerals where the cause of death was poor gun control.

  • Considering the victim was 15 when her murderer was born (likely 14 when he was conceived), it seems like the father went after someone considerable younger than his ex-wife.

    The son is going to be fucked up for life because of his father’s mistake. He should not go unpunished, but the father should be paying the price along with his son.

    • celcius_01 says:

      “Does that mean i can fuck your hot young girlfriend, daddy?”

      “No son, what i meant was…”

      “Fuck her hot loli children instead?! Your the best daddy!”

      “NO! *cough* Those are for daddy. *cough* I gave you a gun, my son. Now go get creative.”

      “Like this?” *boom* “Oops?”

      “Ho boy…that’ll stain the carpet…”

  • this is in missouri near where I live and I am telling you that from what local news organizations have found out about this kid, he was Charles Manson the early years.

    I recieved my first shotgun and age 14, and I was never alowed to have it in my possesion without an adult present. I was not even allowed to load the gun till I was 16. I have no problem allowing a child to own a gun. I have a problem with a parent giving a gun to a child like this and not being a responsible parent.

    • You don’t know that he was actually given it to have all the time, not just from this. While it says he was given it as a gift, it might have been kept away from him most of the time.

      He planned it out thoroughly enough to hide the weapon and throw away the shell, it’s entirely possible his plan included how to get the keys/get into the gun cabinet/put it back after.

  • Justice Shojo says:

    Life in prison is a horrible sentence…. it wastes taxpayers hard earned money. He should just become a slave and join the growing US prison Industrial complex (how do you think we can compete economically with poor hell holes otherwise?)

    The father also should be sentenced to serve as a slave labourer alongside his son till the son reaches the age of majority.

    Their is absolutely no reason to give a child a shotgun.

    Also their is no such thing as the homicide of an unborn child. A unborn child may be a miscarriage, stillborn, ect, and if this is the case all abortions are homicides.

    Oh and the psychological motivations I understand quite well. I mean when I was 12 I wanted to sleep with my mother, I was jealous of all the fun my father had with mother lol.. and it annoyed me that the baby got all the attention and breast sucking action. I didn’t have a shotgun though. I also understood the consequences of that action… a ruined life.

    • unborn children can be killed if the child would of naturally survived to birth the mothers murderer should be charged with the childs death. but that would require you to view unborn children as something more than a parasite.

    • Yes, there is reason to give a child a shotgun. It’s a constitutional right. Do you want to tell everyone what should they do?
      Also, no normal human being (not even as a child) would kill someone just because of jealousy. He failed terribly to understand the basic values of life, and it would detrimental to release these psychopaths back to society.

      • Anonymous says:

        “Yes, there is reason to give a child a shotgun. It’s a constitutional right.”

        Okay, while I’m not anti-gun by any means, this is just silly. Just because you CAN do something, it doesn’t automatically follow that you SHOULD.

        On the other hand, plenty of people are posting here, saying that they had shotguns when they were kids, but outside of supervised hunting trips their parents kept the guns locked up or let them keep the guns but unloaded them and locked away the ammo. THAT is responsible gun use. If you’re not smart enough to do that, you shouldn’t be buying a gun for your kid. Or at all. Just don’t buy guns.

        Note: Yes, I’m American. No, I didn’t grow up with a gun. I have never held, let alone fired, a real gun.

  • Uh, he knew what he was doing. He may not have sat and pondered out all the possibilities of the effect it might have on his life, but he knew that shooting her would kill her (eliminating her and the competition), he knew that it was wrong (he denies it and tried to get rid of evidence), and… well, that’s basically all it requires to prove that he was fully cognizant of what he had done.

    Being tried as an adult isn’t about actually being an adult. All it means is that the underaged person had at least an adult’s understanding that what they were doing was wrong and was a crime. He obviously did.

    Also, little known fact: A life sentence is actually fifty years. So unless they give him two life sentences and make him serve them back-to-back he’ll probably get out. He’ll be an old little murderer, but he’ll get out.

  • Arrest both the kid and the person who bought him that fucking shotgun (I’m guessing it was his dad). Any parent that buys a weapon for their kid should be arrested and the weapon should be confiscated, most kids just can’t be trusted with them (especially with so many parents these days never bothering to teach their kids responsibility).

  • not showinng remorse could just mean that he isn’t sorry she’s gone.

    I for one think we should kill the little shit and be done with it.

    and i totally with i had a shotgun when i was 12.

  • Nice to see the old pro firearm lobby doing it’s fine work and pressuring and lobbying for kids to be tried as adults as soon as they commit a crime with a gun…

    USA makes me feel sick sometimes…

  • “This offence was an execution-style killing of a defenceless pregnant young mother. A more horrific crime is difficult to imagine.”

    Oh come on, this is simple: he could have raped her after killing her. Probably even did, that little rat.

    He probably raped her before too, was his unborn kid there, didn’t want anyone to notice..

    What?

    • Look at that fatass kid. He’s not fit enough to use a shotgun correctly.

      What happened was that his dad’s girlfriend bought him Wii Fit and stopped taking him to McDonalds, so he got less fat and shot her.

      Moral: keep your kids as fatasses. It’s the American Way!

  • celcius_01 says:

    That’s why christmas presents should always come from Santa, not from some dad who likes to brag “Hey, i gave ma boy a shotgun you faggot. *spit*”

    On second thought, Santa don’t give out presents for poor kids.

  • What you didn’t know is that the fetus was armed too.

    The first shot was a miss, the fetus fired back, and after a protracted shootout the fetus used it’s mother as a human shield forgetting it was attached by an umbilical coord.

  • wait… i don’t think i red this correctly…

    “US courts have ruled that a boy accused of murdering his father’s pregnant girlfriend, whose brains were blown out with a shotgun the boy received as a Christmas present”

    Why in the blue fuck would you give a 12 year old a shotgun as a gift? and was the person who gave it to him high on C4? (yes even though its super dangerous you can get high on C4) sooo who’s fault is this again?? and since when the fuck did they start making real guns for kids?!

    • Ummm… they’ve been making them for a long time. I received a similar shotgun when I was nine. It just helps to teach your children to respect it as an incredibly dangerous weapon.

      Also teaching your kids that, ya know, killing people isn’t right. Basic morality and all those minor details many parents seem to overlook while raising their children.

      • Sometimes the parents can teach the kids all they like and the kids will still turn out rotten.

        Maybe the kid’s dad was an okay guy. Maybe he did try to teach his kid responsibility. Maybe he gave the kid the gun to teach him and guide him and take him out hunting to spend time with him.

        Maybe the kid had other problems he didn’t tell his parents about. Maybe he just didn’t listen when they taught him things. Maybe he’s just broken in the head. (Last one’s a distinct possibility. I mean, fuck, the kid PLANNED THIS OUT. Dig up the back yard and around that creek bed where he ditched the shell, bet you’ll find plenty of small animal corpses.)

        Besides, if you have to sit your kid down and say “Okay son, today we’re going to learn that killing other people is wrong” for them to understand that, then I think society in general is fucked.

        • He ditched his mom, knocked up a girl and brings her into his life without asking and orders him to GTFO of his room (the only place he feels as his own) to make room for the other (and in his mind, preferred) unborn baby.

          Seems to me kid turned out rotten because of fail!parenting. I doubt a guy who fucks up the world of his own kid could have enough sense to teach him about firearms safety.

        • Tex_Arcana says:

          A good parent would realize that responsibility must be taught before firearms are brought into the equation, not after.

          He may have had deep pockets, but he didn’t know his kid very well.

  • Any normal country would have gone after the father, not aftetr the 12yo son! Without taking into consideration the fact that a normal country wouldn’t any dumbass to possess firearms! But it’s obvious that you can’t consider the US a sane country.

    • I’m sorry, but it’s obvious that you can’t consider ANY country a sane country. While the citizens may be quite sane and normal, the people in “power” very rarely are. And it’s the people in power you always hear. Very rarely is it the normal citizens.

      Politics always corrupt people. It’s a matter of when, not if. Spend to long in that “business” and you’ll be nothing but a puppet who only dances to the tune of “pretty words”, “money”, and “power”. Silly things like morals, values, or thinking as an (intelligent) individual, need not apply.

    • He’s not 6 feet.
      Look at the numbers again, there’s text that is visible after the numbers. Sure, it is cut off, but it is obviously not ‘ or “. It’s the beginning of the next number. You can tell what numbers they are based on the position and shape of the visible portion of the text.

      The board reads:

      60″


      57″


      54″

      The boy is 61″ or 5 feet and 1 inch tall. Which is completely normal for an 11yr old. The board starts at 54” or 4 feet 6 inches. Because if you’re shorter than that, you’re either
      a. A small/young child
      b. A midget.

    • That’s all I ever got growing up and loved ’em. Also knew never to, you know, shoot someone with it because, like deer or rabbits or hurt and dying pets, it kills when you shoot. This kid wanted death and got it. If he didn’t have a gun, he would have used a knife. Didn’t have a knife he would have tried for some of those things he knows not to drink. None of that, he might have tried just his hands and a pillow.

    • Tex_Arcana says:

      Makes a certain amount of sense for training purposes. But it doesn’t mean that you’d want to give the kid legal ownership, or ready access to a deadly weapon.

      Shotgun designed to be used by children ≠ shotgun intended to be owned by children. But nothing is foolproof, with a big enough fool involved.

  • I hope he gets sentenced for life but I had also hoped they would at least prosecute his father as well for being a danger to everyone in his vicinity.

    Seriously, the stupidity seems to run in the family. The only ones I feel sorry for are the now dead girlfriend and the unborn child, and their relatives.

  • “He had apparently been given the “designed for children” 20-gauge shotgun as a Christmas present.

    Talk about parental fail.. How wrong murdering is aside, the father was the one to be blamed for ditching him for another child. I mean, who wouldn’t be angry and felt like getting stamped as second class child when your own parents told you to leave your own bedroom for someone else to occupy?

    Then again, at least he didn’t kill his (possibly loli) stepsister.. Poor baby btw.

  • LOL, funny how they trial and talk mostly of the kid when the father bought him a weapon on the first place.

    In other shot news:
    “Pennsylvania law allows anyone over 10 charged with murder to be tried as an adult” so they can be punished as adults but doesn’t have the same benefits adults have… kind of easy to spot what’s wrong here huh?

  • So the prosecution is willing to think about moving to a juvenile court if he admits to the crime. Is admittance the only grounds for trying a child in a juvenile court, or does our judicial system allow for the convenient abandonment of “innocent until proven guilty?”

    • Anonymous says:

      US Juvenile system doesn’t work like “adult” court. There is only a judge— no jury. The judge decides if you are guilty, and if so, of what. They don’t need any evidence, just suspicion. Children in Juvie are less than animals (as animals have more rights and protections in the US) under the laws dealing with juveniles.

      The kid has a BETTER shot of getting a fair trial under the criminal system.

      Juvie is set up the way it is for a few reason. 1) it is old and deals with kids in the “old ways” (ie, kids are property and always retarded, etc), 2) you cannot deal with kids like adults. Most kids can easily be talked into admitting they slit their dad’s throat and raped their mother— even when they haven’t. It’s due to how kids brains function, and what society teaches them.

      Juvie generally sucks from an adult point of view— as you are alays guilty, even when there is evidence that you are innocent, and you have to play the sorrow filled Eddie Haskel whenever you are in it. You could mass murder everyone in your school when you are 8, but if the judge on your case thinks you didn’t understand that locking all the doors and setting the school on fire would result in people dieing, you can LITERALLY be found innoncent and be appointed to 6 years councilling.

    • That’s not what they said exactly. Admitting guilt is a sign of remorse. They were saying you have to be remorseful to get a shot at a juvenile trial. This also went along with the psychiatrists examination.

      Also innocent until proven guilty really is neither here nor there. Legally he can be and was charged as an adult. Admitting to his crime would lessen the sentence. In his case that would mean a juvenile trial.

      It is really no different then pleading guilty as an adult except there is another level of court if you do as a child.

      • “Kevin Harley, spokesman for the Pennsylvania attorney general, said prosecutors agree with the decision [to try him in an adult court] but stressed that prosecutors could still decide to move the case to juvenile court themselves if he admits he committed the crimes.”

        That’s exactly what they said, actually.

        And that’s the problem. You have to plead guilty, regardless of whether or not you committed it, in order to be taken to the juvenile court. If an innocent child tried to defend himself in an adult court, lost and got a life sentence, something isn’t right with our system. The judge’s ruling feels like a blindsiding of due process.

        • In Pennsylvania law, the defense attorneys have to make the case that it is more amenable to try a child in a juvenile court. They hired a psychiatrist to build their argument (you’re only reading the Sankaku article that mentions the prosecution’s psychiatrist), but the judge turned the psychiatrist’s testimony down. You’d know about this had you gone to other news sources for more information.

        • This is different from a regular plea bargain. In this case, a testimony was made to put the boy in a juvenile court. That testimony was rejected, but then an about-face was made when the prosecution mentioned that they would consider moving to the juvenile court if he admits to the crime. In a regular plea bargain, you aren’t initially denied of anything only to be offered it again under worse circumstances; you’re simply given a choice.

        • Tex, how did you infer that none of the other signs of remorse are in evidence from the articles at hand? The judge’s denial of moving the boy to a juvenile court was put in place because he did not agree with the psychiatrist’s testimony, which if anything was a defense of the child’s demeanor. Pennsylvania law may dictate that a child aged 10 or older may be tried in an adult court for homicide, but there’s something wrong with the system if it thinks that locking someone up for 80+% of his life is somehow good for the child or for society.

          Saying things like “it wasn’t accidental” or “it was premeditated” means the assumption of guilt has already been made, and I hope the court isn’t thinking along those lines. Premeditation needs to be determined during trial, not before it.

        • >>The court has not yet decided whether or not he is guilty, and yet is intent on wringing a confession out of him with the incentive of a lighter sentence.

          Yes. This is how the justice system works. It’s not just something they thought up for this one kid. The whole plea bargain system is built around the fact that if you admit guilt there’s some vague possibility you might be worth keeping around. It doesn’t just go “Oh okay we think you did it but since you don’t like the full sentence we’ll go ahead and bump you down a few felony levels anyway.”

        • Tex_Arcana says:

          He never said it was the only way, but none of the other signs are in evidence.

          The fact that this was a premeditated act, and not accidental in any sense should be factored in as well.

        • But it’s still operating under the assumption that he did commit the crime. It would be more correct to say, “Admittance of guilt from a true culprit is a possible sign of remorse.” The court has not yet decided whether or not he is guilty, and yet is intent on wringing a confession out of him with the incentive of a lighter sentence.

          Pyrolight, if the only way to show remorse is to feel guilt for a crime that you may or MAY NOT have committed, something is wrong with the way courts have defined remorse. The psychiatrist test determined that he should be tried in a juvenile court, but the judge said, “No.”

        • Fair enough but that really doesn’t change much.

          Admitting guilt shows remorse hence lesser charges. It is still exactly the same as an adult pleading guilty just with a hell of a lot better “get out of jail free” card.

          Also the lawyers are just being lawyers. They are just covering their asses depending on which way the public sentiment goes.

          To the edit. He is being tried as an adult because of the nature of the crime and his utter lack of remorse (remember he did get a psychiatrist test too). Had he robbed a person he would have been in juvenile court no matter how he felt after.

          He legally was of age to face an adult charge for a very adult crime. If he plead guilty and showed some sort of remorse he would get his “get out of jail free” card via juvenile court. The fact he could even have this option is actually the crime here.

          Again the crime was one that could see him face an adult court legally. Only his admission of guilt would reduce that (like anyone who admits guilt) to a lesser sentence (in this case the juvenile court)

  • Well this wasn’t an accident and with something like this he most likely wont bring any good to the society later on anyway so why not to remove him for good?!

    cant say I feel sorry for him

    • i do feel sorry for him
      seems like his father was divorced, found another woman with children, bought a shotgun for his son – sounds like a broken environment to me
      but that still doesnt change the fact that the boys character is probably beyond repair so bad luck for him…

      • Funny, there was a 13 year old who did something like this…. he is now walking about free at the age of 25 and has not been in trouble with the law since.

        The fact is that NO ONE is beyond redemption, it’s just that sometimes jackasses don’t want to put in the hard energy to FIX the person in question.

    • Both Tex_Arcana’s and Friend’s statements are harsh, but I agree. By 11 years old, SOME sort of respect for life is instilled in almost all individuals. According to the information in just this article, his crime was indeed cold and calculated.

      It seems more shocking to me that this person is unremorseful for taking life than the fact he is 11 years old.

      • No, it isn’t. Not today anyway, because most parents are too fucking busy to sit down with their kids and tell them that it is NOT acceptable to physically injure someone else or kill them unless they try to do that to you first and it is your last choice.

        Believe me, I have LOST COUNT of the number of times I have had to tell people’s children “YOU DO NOT HIT LITTLE SUZIE JUST BECAUSE SHE IS BEING A PEST!”
        Sometimes, the kids even say “Well, Daddy said I should!”

        I get on the parent’s case BIG TIME when I hear that, however.

        • Anonymous says:

          When I was four and watched a lot of Power Rangers, my mother would sit me down and tell me that it’s not cool to beat up “bad guys” at my school just ’cause they do it on TV.

          “Good parenting” courses really should be a mandatory part of high-school public education. Now that I stop and think about it, I actually find it kind of amazing that sex ed is apparently so important that it is taken REPEATEDLY throughout school, from middle school onwards, but they’re so busy trying to prevent teen pregnancy that they don’t even think to make it mandatory for teens to learn parenting skills.

  • Tex_Arcana says:

    I think that the argument that the little bastard shouldn’t have a shotgun comes second to the argument that he shouldn’t be breathing my air.

    Charge him as an adult? Sure. Charge him as a nazi war criminal if it gets him off the planet.

  • Hahahahahahahahahahaha

    Shotgun made for children. Feeling really fucking smart now aren’t you dad.

    Jesus Christ on a crutch, some parents shouldn’t be allowed to breed till they can prove competency.

    Regardless of how remorseful the boy is or ever will be I hope the father clues in.

    Dangerous weapons are for adults you pin head. We lock them up normally for a reason.

    • Seems like it was on a farm and its usually tradition/popular myth/practicality for those on farms to have shotguns.

      Obviously the father is at fault for not properly teaching his son but I also think we cant ignore the son’s clear intent to kill, his expression of jealousy and his obvious disdain for his father’s new ‘wife’ (girlfriend).

      More to it than the old ‘fucking idiot redneck gave/shot/something with a firearm’ here.

      • Well it’s true that the son is obviously more at fault than the father, but just what would he need a shotgun for? To brag to his friends? For hunting? It just baffles me to think that an adolescent child would be given the responsibility of having a loaded shotgun.

        • @ Reizo 07:51 :

          Anon 05:54 here … you’re right in that the ammo should have been locked up from the kid, and only dispensed when on supervised hunting trips. That it was NOT locked up is just additional DadFAIL.

          Unquestionably, the irresponsible FailDad *OUGHT* to get some jail time (though he probably won’t), but he is not _primarily_ responsible for this.

        • @Reizo

          Seriosuly? you must not live on a farm or in the country. I don’t know a single person that hasn’t been given a gun as a child or gives one to their own child. At the same time, you learn how to handle it and store it and not use it on thigns you don’t plan on killing. All these people I know, and the thousands I don’t just around this area alone, and we’ve never had a shooting like that.

          I even see kids walking down side roads with shotguns.

          Yet no murders. Go figure.

        • @ Anon 5:54

          …Why would he have access to poison? That’s even more ridiculous than a gun. (Note: I’m completely missing the point on purpose.)

          I understand it’s for hunting, but shouldn’t the dad lock it in the shed or something when they’re not hunting? Or is it normal to leave it out in the open? Sorry, I’m from the city, around Los Angeles and all that.

        • Your mad you didn’t get a shot gun as a kid so you wanna blame the dad? The kid did it don’t blanket him from the law because he is a kid. No one cut me any slack as a kid when I beat up other kids for pull my hair or stealing my stuff. I always had to take the crap and get kicked out of school for “anger issues” (which is NOT the case when a kid is yanking on long hair tied together).

        • It’s arguable that the son would’ve found other means to attack the pregnant mother, had he not been given a shotgun, though…

          There is an enormous issue with giving children guns in the first place. The ease in which guns are used to harm others and the fact that children do not yet have fully developed minds makes the mix quite dangerous. Children are also impressionable…living in a society that contains easily accessible forms of media (TV, Video Games, Internet, etc.) which broadcast violence and vulgarity regularly is quite troublesome. Parents nowadays must definitely be more vigilant and responsible when choosing to raise a child, not to mention a child “packing heat”.

        • @ Anon 05:27

          The father either screwed up big-time in evaluating his son’s readiness for the responsibility of owning a firearm, or had the Evil Plan (TM) outlined by an earlier poster.

          An answer to your question is, “yes, for hunting.”

          When I first met my cousin Bobby, he was 11 years old, had a shotgun over one shoulder, and three ducks he’d shot over the other shoulder. (Picking shot out of birds is a time-consuming task, btw.)

          Current law in my (USA) state is you must be at least 16 years old and have successfully completed the Hunter’s Safety Course before you can legally hunt alone.

          You can be 10 years old and hunt if you have, and are with a “mentor”. Mentors must be 18 years old and licensed hunters.

          Mentors may accompany only one 10- or 11-year-old at a time. They must be within an arm’s reach of the hunter at all times.

          The pair may carry one firearm or bow between them. All other hunting and trapping rules apply.

          I suppose if the kid in the article didn’t have access to a firearm, he could just wait till his mom got out of their car to open up their garage door, hopped over into the driver’s seat, put the car into “Drive”, stomped the gas pedal, and run her down.

          Or, put poison into her coffee.

          Or, pushed her down the stairs — which is more deniable than blowing someone’s head off.

          Bad kid is bad.

    • It might have been the father’s grand master scheme… The father didn’t like the current girlfriend, or has been having an affair. Knowing that his son is jealous of the girlfriend and the unborn baby, the father purposefully given the boy the shotgun for Christmas, hoping to have the boy take the pregnant girlfriend out of the picture. The boy did what he intended him to do, I bet the father is somewhere, laughing maniacally going “Just as planned”