Eroge Market Victim of Moe Boom
- Categories: Games, News
- Date: Jan 1, 2010 20:48 JST
- Tags: Business, Eroge, Interviews, Marketing, Moe, Otaku, Visual Novels
A frank interview with an eroge industry insider reveals some interesting tidbits, with the demands of moe marketing evidently precluding much in the way of innovation.
An abridged version of Siliconera’s lengthy interview with an anonymous eroge distributor is reproduced below:
You said that the market is flooded but also that there are a limited number of customers actually making purchases.
Do you think this leads to a tendency on the part of developers to make the same kind of game over and over again because there’s a higher chance of selling product this way?
For instance, it seems like we’re seeing a lot of moe style games these days…
Yes, I see the developers making the same kind of game over and over, because that’s actually what the consumer wants and what sells.
One game developer we work with is well known for their school adventure title [probably the endlessly rehashed Da Capo]. Now, they have been releasing many versions and expansions for this series.
However, if you were a fan of any series, wouldn’t you want to enjoy the same characters and world setting rather than putting in the effort to move on to a completely newer series, and risking not enjoying it? (This is called “hitting a landmine” in eroge purchase lingo)
But its not like some companies aren’t trying other things out. For example, some companies are trying out different genres within the bishoujo game market, such as a RPG-styled adventure games.
Even though people put in quite an effort to develop and promote these games, the demand for known franchises is still much greater.
The word “moe” is pretty broad, but it is a necessary element in an h-game that sells. You can even say that a game didn’t sell because it wasn’t moe enough!
Enjoying a fun time with the characters during an awesome story could be one type of moe, but some people prefer titles where they put forth a certain fetish (such as younger sister, childhood friend, etc.) before anything, and that’s moe to them. Nevertheless, it’s certain that the ones with the prettiest art style have an advantage.
One factor you can’t forget in the h-game market is that the games are expensive. A normal full price of a game goes for 8,800 yen (that’s 9,240 yen with tax included). That’s over 100 U.S. dollars with today’s exchange rate.
That’s why the consumers can only purchase a limited number of games each month, even making use of the second-hand market. Not to mention, these games take time to beat.
Recently, it’s not uncommon to see developers making smaller games that come out at a faster pace, too — sometimes in increments of 3 months.
It may sound weird, but in this industry, unless the game is superbly good and receives perfect reviews afterwards, the number of pre-orders determine the value and life of a title, because that’s the only time we can actually borrow the space to promote the game at the stores and media.
So, if reducing prices and making smaller games isn’t an option in your opinion, what can you do in order to expand the audience for the genre? Japan isn’t reproducing at a very high rate.
In this situation, when the existing market is so saturated, what measures do you think can be taken to help make the niche more profitable? Are the publishers you’ve worked with thinking of long-term plans in this regard?
Actually, I personally think this industry has reached its limit in terms of the consumer fan base.
We’ve done everything in terms of marketing, and now companies are simply eating into each other’s profits, in which case its maximum size will never grow bigger. Not to mention, the same customer base is usually also a fan of console games and anime.
The developers’ goal is still to make a good and attractive game, but now they are putting in more effort than ever to keep the fans they gained entertained as long as possible, so they will be interested enough to try out their future titles.
An almost total lack of innovation, whether technical or narrative, and an evident lack of interest in new markets, domestic or international, seem more of a barrier to expansion than the tiny core of established fans the industry has so carefully served all these years.
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I feel they'd get a bigger consumer base if they were cheaper. However, if they were cheaper, it might only even out. You have more people buying the game, but the amount of people you gain may only the same amount you made on the smaller number of people.
At the same time, I'd have to wonder how necessary eroge games are when theres more then enough free pornographic material, both 2D and 3D, readily available online.
I also wonder how many people pirate the eroge due to the high price point.
I can only speak from personal preference, but imho, a h scene in an eroge, provided it's a good one, is way better than any other form of pornography. Probably because they actually hire talented seiyuu, so the human component is of professional quality. (as opposed to the lame voice-acting in 2d movies, or the even worse normal acting in 3d ones)
Not to mention most if not all hentai anime have little to no story.
Moe always makes everything better.
True enough, ppl should stop blaming Moe just because they're phobic to cute girls and simplicity, and only into bakunyu grannies. If they still think Moe kills the seriousness and storyline, they should at least pay attention to underrated titles like Komorebi.
However, what he said about moe is true
"The word “moe” is pretty broad..."
I find lolis and clumsy girls moe but others might find it annoying. And some would say the male char are moe too (like yaoi), if you bend that way...
The eroge industry uses cheap outdated game engines. Either they invest to deliver a better experience or they cut the prices. Innovation or bust, there is no other way out.
Most companies only sell to the japanese market. They say they’ve done everything in terms of marketing? They are either lying or delusional.
Compared to the world market the japanese one is tiny. If they have problems with bans or other some shit they should do something against this instead of hiding behind lame excuses.
The games only sell for a very short time? Make either better, cheaper or smaller ones or sell international. Or all of the above.
If they want to earn money they have to work for it. Surprise.
Schrobby. actually hitted the nail, i will just add that japanese market in general (incluiding the normal game industrie even anime) still suffer from the old Japan island effect (forgot the right way to express it), they dont want to do any international market at all, they rarely care. they should stop hatting us at least for money
Eroge are a small niche market in Japan, and interest in such things is even smaller internationally (the people here really don't give an accurate sample of the population). Going international would require extra translation and distribution expenses, and considering the content of most eroge, would likely cause a large deal of controversy and legal issues in most countries outside of Japan.
Let them be downloadable; No shipping costs, no distribution costs, no discs.
Translation? The people who play these games usually LIKE the Japanese voice acting, so there's a cost right there, and you only need to play one or two people to translate. There isn't very much overhead.
Yes, downloadable would be a good work around most of these problems. If they offer an English (or any other language) txt option or whatever in their games you can't say they're necessarily breaking any laws. Not sure how it all works once payment enters the process, but it seems to me it'd be do able for a very small amount of extra investment.
Not only are there legal issues involved, there'd be more cases like Equality Now if more were in English and they could read more of them. The west has different cultures and customs than the east, and the creators do not know how to make games. It is hard to relearn your upbringing in your native environment of 30+ years and relearn a new one in less than one development cycle.
"For instance, it seems like we’re seeing a lot of moe style games these days…"
I see no problem in moe personally, but it shouldn't make up 100% of all eroge. The companies should focus more on story and new ideas while still keeping moe and appealing characters in check. Generic stories we've seen a hundred times before should be minimalized.
Also, ever notice how eroge that don't follow a strictly moe approach seem to attract more attention? It's obvious that much of the fanbase wants something different.
There is no problem in cute cliche imouto characters if they have a good plot (and art of course) to go along. We can get something for everyone if we demand variety.
Damn. I wanted to make a general reply but it ended up here and I noticed too late. Whatever.
Doesn't matter, you are wrong, moe is more popular than non moe.
Call it fad if you want, I love moe, I liked moe before the word was popular and will like it for the foreseeable future. I for one I'm frenetic that moe is all the rage.
In fact thanks to the recent rush of yuri anime and the news of the hanabira anime a.k.a. second cumming of christ, I'm euphoric!
>>At the same time, I'd have to wonder how necessary eroge games are when theres more then enough free pornographic material, both 2D and 3D, readily available online.
You're forgetting that a large number of eroge aren't just plain porn. People don't play them JUST to fap, they play them for the story and in some cases, the gameplay.
I have no interest in the actual pornographic content of eroge but I started playing/reading them because of the engaging stories (Saya no Uta, mind blown, fuck yeah).
more MOE more BETTER
Its just a phase you'll grow out of it within the next decade.
I'm probably twice your age and I enjoy moé. It's not an age thing, it's your preference. I like the whole ideal of moé -- it's cute and appealing if done properly.
Actually moe kills mosttimes the whole storyline...
Lazy writing kills bad stories. Moe is not at fault; it's simply a style. It's lazy writers that copy the style, and use it as a crutch, who give it a bad name.
More moe = more slice of life = no more anime with story = utterly pathetic shitty decade if not more with no good anime whatsoever.
Mark my words.
Amen.
someone got butt hurt
Yes. I am butt hurt that this shit will kill anime..
+1. I find slice-of-life to be soul-numbingly boring.
It's not like moe must be slice-of-life.
Tears to Tiara was fantasy, yet the characters were moe. Especially Llyr/Suiru.
Well that's a good way to put it but that's not all there is to it. Personally I think moe could make a character more human and believable rather than make him/her all perfect boring. But there are other ways to do this than moe, and not all forms of moe do this.
I guess it all depends how you use it.
Moe money, moe problems.
Hwoow
Hau~
GOing international isnt a bad idea . . . too bad there are bans everywhere
Not anymore. You can thank Equality Now for that.
Going international costs money, and then international consumers complain about everything anyway. Look at Higurashi. People complained about the price, the distribution, even the title. EVEN THE TITLE.
I can understand complaining about the price for a digital-download only (I'd pay that for an actual physical copy but I'm hesitant to pay it for a digital copy; I'll fork over the money anyway though, because I want to make up for pirating Umineko).
You must have not studied economics.
"We’ve done everything in terms of marketing, and now companies are simply eating into each other’s profits..."
means that since there already is a saturated market,if eroge makers like Circus are competing on price, then you're just lowering margins for the whole industry and the producer is losing out/consumer is gaining.
In this case, it doesn't follow the Law of Demand.
Why use the non-moe Ino art for this?
Heheheheheheh
It's no different than any other VERY finite market that's selling over and over to the very finite market.
Hey, just because you released a game last year, doesn't mean you can expect to sell a game this year and the next and the next.
The gamers are merely a year old this year. We haven't necessarily expanded in numbers magically. It's not like there is magi cal growth in the market, even if there is magically more in the industry.
I see the same thing in the wargame industry (which is also brutally small in customer base numbers). If this year the number of game makers were to increase for wargaming, it will just mean they will all be selling fewer wargames to the same number of wargamers.
Some demographics don't increase, sometimes they just age.
If they are stupid enough to just continue on or are just too chicken to take a risk at being the next great thing, then let them suffer the lame sales.
I imagine the potential fanbase eroge could attract is a fair bit wider than war games, but still, you made a good comparison there.
It could very well be the future of this industry.
Moe sucks. Moe is pure crap. Everyone who likes moe is a fucking faggot! Mom+shota-son FTW!
u aren't the entire user base fucknut
There's a solution to all this.
English.
lmao so true.
why can't they realize that by simply translating some of the eroges to other languages they'll be able to sell them to the untapped markets in other countries? especially U.S dammit...
Yup, that's the ticket. Translating into foreign languages is the most effective way to multiply your potential audience by a huge factor.
And another idea: provide a non-hentai option (some already do this). There are a lot of people out there who like the general principle of the thing but who are simply not looking for porn.
Yes, that's what Illusion sort of tried. But you all know what happened because of that.
Illusion never tried, dumbass. It was just some guy that sold a Japanese copy of Rapelay on the English version of Amazon.com. Illusion was never interested in the English market, and they've been hostile to companies like JAST who were interested in localizing their games in English long before the fiasco even happened.
Get your facts straight, moron.
About this translation thing...
as a literate of a Japanese kanji, I still think that some games are best in their original language.
I mean, sometimes the Japanese in story-oriented galges are so poetic and beautiful that I doubt that any translation can fully simulates the feeling I get from it.
Games like Little Busters, Fate, and many more. In fact only ero-oriented games use plain Japanese nowadays.
have you guy forgot about feminist?
they can't figure the difference reality and games. So if the games has a bad ending(which usually RAPE) they demand ban.
Needs prohibitively large PR investment.
There are many companies translating eroge, but they do not seem to swim in cash. Also, several western companies have been trying to make western-style porn games - and no one of them makes much money as well...
So it seems, that at moment the English eroge market is much smaller than Japanese one. The only way to increase this is through huge investments - and the industry is not in the position to throw money around.
Also, as soon as eroge would start becoming more mainstream in Western world you can expect Equality now & co to start real crusade.
add to that that the cosumer base isn't breeding and goes for extinction :)
Otaku are not born--THEY'RE MADE. Otaku have been around for nearly 3 generations now. How else would they manage to exist so long if they can't breed?
Exactly I once went to an anime convention and there I saw a guy in jeriya costume with his 10 year old son in a naruto one.