The supporters of a ban on loli manga are attempting to brand opponents as mentally ill, whilst denying that any evidence is required for their proposed bans and suggesting it is ridiculous that fictional children do not enjoy the same rights as real ones.
One author, Nanako Ooba, a “birth coordinator,” writes thus:
“Whenever anyone tries to ban this material, the mangaka and their supporters send them huge amounts of protest mail; however you look at it, this is violence. Against such violence there is no need to discuss the basis of the law.”
“Isn’t it necessary to spread the idea that the people supporting the readers of these sexual abuse manga are causing denial?”
“Please refer to the following: ‘On the Denial of Schizophrenia’.”
“They are suffering from denial, they keep arguing that you can’t ban something with no evidence against it. We have to think of a counter to this.”
It seems unlikely she would be prepared to consider the letter-spamming campaigns of Equality Now as “violence.”
A convention of Parent-Teacher Associations publically foams at the mouth when the subject of loli manga is mentioned:
“As a society, as parents, we can’t forgive this. Indeed, it is madness that these disgusting forms of extreme sexual expression are allowed at all.
Why are these things even allowed to be published? We have to change Japan’s culture and values, and tie these manga to the promotion of sex crime.”
“This isn’t a matter of just not letting minors read them, or of there being no victims in a manga. There are lots of adults who commit crimes based on these. Without a shadow of a doubt, anime and lolicon culture cause sex crime. If they can’t be relied on to regulate themselves, there must be a ban.”
“For the sake of the publishing industry, we should be gradually imposing more and more penalties on them to weed out the bad ones.”
“It is absolutely incomprehensible that they are allowed to do this to children just because they don’t exist.”
“In other countries they have bans. Only in Japan can we not get a ban. A ban is so obviously right that there is no need at all to provide an explanation or data to the mangaka groups.”
Ban supporters talk with delight of a formidable weapon in their arsenal, the washed up former idol and Sokka Gakkai cultist Agnes Chan:
“There was a Diet member who objected to the ban because it would ban some famous nude artwork. Agnes Chan did him right! ‘Do you really want to see pictures of 15-year-old girls that much? What’s artistic about that? Why can’t you wait until they’re 18?’ she said. He was lost for words.”
A prominent legal scholar argues fictional beings deserve the same rights as actual ones:
“It is simply bizarre that any kind of manga can be published simply because no actual people appear in it.
On the subject of a ban, I heard that a Diet member received a huge amount of threatening mail just for proposing it. For that reason, something must be done about this.”
Yet he freely admits there is no evidence whatsoever that such material increases crime:
“But there is no evidence that child porn manga increases child rape. Of course, there is no evidence that the manga exerts a cathartic effect and reduces crime either.
… but I think it is wrong to think that just because there is no data supporting a link that manga does not influence sex crime. It is nonsense to suggest you need evidence to support a ban.”
Opponents of such measures would do well to note the pointlessness of attempting to reason with either the proponents of a ban or the general public.
Just as they suggest, tactics of demonising, smearing and discrediting opponents, and making appeals to the paranoid emotions of the general public, whether relating to their children or their human rights, are more likely to be effective, to say nothing of the effectiveness of direct pressure.
| 
Top 20 Hunkiest Pokemon
Wagamama High Spec Hot Indeed
Mayoiga Full of Mystery
The Empire of Corpses Gorily Grim
One Piece: Burning Blood Total Bikini Madness
Bakuon!! Wild & Rough
Milky Mimi Ero-Figure Deliciously Creamy
Dead or Alive Ero-SFM Doubly Dirty
Flying Witch “Cute But Boring…”
Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantastic: “What About the West!?”
Shounen Maid “A Fujoshi Delight”
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Kasumigaoka Utaha Cosplay Pretty Pure
Goddess of 2ch “Another Bathing Beauty!”
Tantalizing Hestia Cosplay Busts Out
Kashiwazaki Sena Cosplay Pure & Innocent
Minami Kotori Casino Girl Cosplay Takes No Chances
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Kasugano Sora Bunny Girl Cosplay Absolutely Admirable
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Madness? Disgusting? THIS IS 2D!
+1000
im suprised nobody saw this "We have to change Japan’s culture and values"
holy shit wtf stop trying to change someone's culture just because they are not the culture u are familiar with. Its a culture for a reason, its different, u dont see ppl going and trying to change islam... "stop sleeping with virgins and then killing them after" <- thats moar wrong than a few pictures on a piece of paper
These anti-freedom groups tend not to go after powerful opponents with large amounts of weapons.
They're weaklings who only pick on people most likely to roll over for their insane rantings.
To anon 11:48,
I'm not supporting the loli bans, because it's fucking retarded however... You do know that most of those being quoted areJapanese right?
^ Yeah, basically they're the proverbial school bullies trying to hit up otaku for their loli lunch money.
Agree with Anon 11:51. They are the proverbial school bullies hitting up otaku fot their loli lunch money.
Many of these shoujo cater to a rape fetish, and many of them are, in fact, lolicon. It's disgusting, if you ask me. It's teaching little girls to be prostitutes.
/unicef
Then how about making it harder for kids to get than banning it? If your kid is being taught by Shoujo's then that maybe you should look at your parenting skills!!
The people here do not want your ugly children or you and you are no match for our 2D Goddesses.
The thought that we want you is outrageous, offensive, and egotistical. I don't know what these hags see in themselves or their phugly children but I don't see it, nor do I want it.
You can work and work to ban loli, fetishes, hentai and succeed. The the real rapists and pedifiles will still be out there.
Fact: Women are all whores and deserve to be raped.
More lolicon ASAP!!!
^Dumbass anon doesn't realize comment will be used against us.
Fact: Dumbasses should not be allowed to comment here.
But if that's how you feel...
Why they have to fight for equality? We already equal after all.. We boys use 2D/3D girls for porn.. And girls use 2D/3D boys for porn too.. isn't that equal?
Yeah, Equality now takes jokes like these and make it sound like we meant it. Equality Now are just a bunch of self-righteous bitches whom real feminists (and not sexist) don't really support.
^ agreed
They're jealous because 2D are more popular than them.
Not our fault... unless you're an artist too. Then it's my own fault. Well, shit.
They better come up with something more than the "human rights of fictional children" and "it is disgusting" etc. Do we know if any of the girls in famous artwork done by dead people are over 18 or should we ban all that as well? I doubt they would think of that as child porn...
As the lama guy that said about violent games.
If he let out the emotions towards a fictional game character it would be better than to actually hit someone in real life.
That would apply to sexual games/manga as well.
If you have an urge to molest a loli, to see what happen, how she reacts, etc. Most people would agree that doing so to fictional girls, from manga and/or games, would be better.
Not to mention that I've never heard about a case where a lolicon rapist had a bunch of manga or erotic games in his home. No, they find large amounts of real child porn on the computer.
Furthermore, they claim that they don't need a reason for the ban. Wouldn't that be like claiming that women can't drive and therefore they should be banned from getting the licence to drive? There is no real evidence that they can't drive, but we still want to ban them from driving. Not that we'll be giving them a reason anyway.
This is not meant to offend any female drivers, but it is a common saying on the net and therefore a suited example.
If they want equality then how come they don't try to get females into the army, state that females using sex toys are seeing men as objects, or making it alright for men to use sex toys without claiming that they see wimen as objects, or get it so that they can get reported for grabbing, kneeing a man in the balls. As men can get reported for slapping a womans butt...
"It is absolutely incomprehensible that they are allowed to do this to children just because they don’t exist."
／l、
(ﾟ､ ｡ ７
l、 ~ヽ
じしf_, )ノ
-- "Can you spot what was wrong with this sentence, nyah?"
If you could, pet yourself on the head, nyah!
If you couldn't, you quality for a long and prosperous political career during the embryonic stage of idea policing, WWIII, and what we can only hope will be the end of all hopelessly intolerant human kind, nyah!
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I find it funny how they talk about schizophrenia being something the people who read these things suffer from. sure there might be someone schizophrenic that reads loli manga, but is it the maturity?
“But there is no evidence that child porn manga increases child rape. Of course, there is no evidence that the manga exerts a cathartic effect and reduces crime either."
Right, so go do some research on the matter, find out how big a percentage of those who read hentai manga, go out and physically abuse children, and then compare these statistics to some that are reading other materials or not reading any kind of materials.
get your facts straight before proclaiming that every person who reads hentai manga is a person that will abuse children sooner or later
I guess this topic will never die.
Luckily, those interested in banning ideas are legitimately incapable of ever truly erasing an idea from existence. Even in the worst-case scenario.
Idea policing like this and worse is a conceivable development for our future.
But idea eradication is literally impossible. In fact, attempting to swipe an idea under the carpet is often the best way to ensure it will gain more attention (and with it, interest) than it would have originally.
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Idea crime like what we're up against will dramatically affect Hentai culture.
Perhaps as illicit substance procurement is as available as ever despite the Drug War, the production of fringe/deviant art may simply continue to thrive, protected by the proxies, nooks, crannies, P2P dens and image boards of the Internet.
File encryption, "darknet" P2P, point-to-point encryption using SSL, source-address rewriting, among other technologies will stand out as shields of freedom during the coming years as idea policing gains political acceptance.
Equility Now is just a bunch of men-haters. I wouldn't be surprised if it would cosist of olny women. Interestingly enough they are always aming for Japan and not Africa where children are being raped every day.
I say they should leave other cultures alone.
Wow they are stupid, fictional people don't have an age.
Funny. No one realize that Equality Now using Sankaku Complex as their excuse & that means those EN bitches are actually a bunch of otaku fujoushi who likes pr0ns in Sankaku too??
Fabulous...
There is no point arguing.
It is about time to start examining, categorizing, and tabulating evidence to sue or even arrest the ban supporters for slander, violation of civil rights, conspiracy, discrimination, and fraud.
Those femnazis, religious extremists, fashists and the bastards working for them need to die.
Talking and logic just doesn't work with those deluded idiots.
I say that all loli H-manga made prior to 1992 is automatically legal because all those fictional girls are 18 years old. Y'know, 'cause they were made 18+ years ago.
They want to give these fictional girls real rights, so why not base it on their 'real' age? (I'm not actually advocating banning all loli made after 1991, I'm making a joke here to illustrate the stupidity of this thinking.)
If it exists digitally and Otaku want it, Otaku will get it. The net is our playground, and is our fortress.
Equality Now, one does not simply walk into Otaku Mordor.
And the Troll Gollums might just push you off the Secret Stair.
"In other countries they have bans. Only in Japan can we not get a ban. A ban is so obviously right that there is no need at all to provide an explanation or data to the mangaka groups"
WELL THAT LOGIC IS INFALLIBLE!
While their at it, they should ban rice and fish from Japan, as all the murderers in japan eat rice and fish, so there must be a connection! No need to do any silly research, as anybody who would oppose this is obviously mentally unstable. problem, trolls?
My troll logic is better than theirs! ^_^
Off topic: We are gravatar brothers even thought I am more handsome.
@ Anon 13:40,
Doesn't matter if he says stuff that will be 'used against us', if nobody posts those things, the people trying to ban it will post it themselves and then 'use it against us'.
They want to protect their 'victims', while we should be yelling! WE ARE THE VICITMS of insane paranoid people with a banfetish!
But it don't matter, soon enough they will become overzealous and make mistakes like:
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/10/01/equality-nows-lies-exposed/
Don't worry, they will fuck up soon enough..
You've seen examples of how Equality Now, Agnes Chan, CEDAW, UNICEF, and these people think. You've been bogged down by the erosion of civil liberties via the Patriot Act, Miller test, etc. You've puzzled at the unchecked legal dominion that Obscenity laws hold over speech and expression. You've read the opinions quoted in this article.
This is what we're up against.
Logic so faulty it's even able to contradict itself within the span of a single sentence. Straw man arguments, ad hominem, and cherry-picking instead of civil discussion. Abuse of paternal instincts when there are no children involved. Pride in the invention of an "excusable" brand of prejudice.
Can anyone really think up a way to stop the tide when our opponents are people-hunting, idea-policing radicals who have all the political clout?
Letters, sure as we stand on the precipice of thought crime, wont be able to stop it.
Can anyone brainstorm a way to stop them?
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I still say our best (only?) bet is to outpopulate the human race with tolerance-predisposed AI [http://forums.yestofreedom.org/viewtopic.php?pid=266#p266]. Like digital, infinitely copyable antibodies to combat idea policing on the cultural level. They can flood internet social sites, forums, MMO's, etc., with profiles and connections and comments to help nurture and befriend a more tolerant and educated generation.
They could mass-produce anime and media that spreads awareness of the issues we're facing.
If that doesn't help culture evolve in a better direction, attempt establishing an artificial nation in the middle of the ocean somewhere. Or an artificial nation on the internet. A governing solution that's more difficult to corrupt than my present constitution-ignoring country could read thusly: link.
...I am sorry, but since you are so rude...FOR THE LAST TIME...PARENTS!!!!Your KID is NOT CUTE or SEXY or BEAUTIFUL at All..
do all of us a favor and watch from another perspective of a stranger looking at your kid.
they cry at public places, they run around causing loud annoying noises...they run around the restaurants, annoying people trying to enjoy there meal.
Just because the kid is your doesn't mean you can live in the illusion that your kid is special or cute in anyway compare to other. I think they are the ones who's in denial, "Ahhh..my kid is soo cute, I need to protect them by banning any slightest offense possible"
Let me say this again....your kid is safe because no one will get off watching your kids at all..
As right ( and cheeky :P ) as you are Anon 01:39, like I said above, the mob you're preaching to is abusing paternal instincts as a form of motivation. Your argument means nothing to them at the psychological stage they're in presently.
Allow me to break it down for you.
After becoming parents and discovering that society lets them excuse just about any behavior of theirs as long as they say they were doing it "for the safety of my children", they learn to habitually abuse this cultural privilege to their advantage.
Add to the mix that paternal/maternal hormones compel us to protect the security of our families, and suddenly you have 2 parents who are writing comments like in the article: "A ban is so obviously right that there is no need at all to provide an explanation or data".
They've learned they can get away with saying things like that (and even find the political clout to actualize such patently over-reaching legislation) so long as they frame it as "it's for the security of family".
Human Nature 101 & Politics 101.
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Some people can shelve their instincts if they think acting on them will hurt others. Such as when you feel like punching someone for being rude, and yet suppress doing so.
Many parents become so lost in their paternal hormones (and lost in a society that encourages this sort of unchecked behavior) that they are clinically unable to suppress that knee-jerk "if there's any chance it could help protect my family, anything is justified" response.
The fact that they have now become the danger that others will have to protect themselves against, doesn't even register.
It's not a conviction they are acting upon. After a certain point it's progressed into a compulsion.
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Obviously anime characters don't look like real children (or adults for that matter).
Obviously anime characters have complex personalities while kids throw tantrums, speak like idiots, and are in general snotty-nosed uninteresting asexual brats.
Obviously anime characters are mythological beings half of the time (aliens, elves, espers, etc. etc.), and barely resemble humans even when they're supposed to. The proportions are all abstracted to the point where, as Sankaku points out once every month or so, any attempt to convert anime into reality results in a terrifying creepshow.
Obviously anime characters don't exist outside of fiction.
Nevertheless, for these parents it's a pathological necessity to them that their surrounding environment adapts to them, rather than they adapt to it. Arrogance and the security/comfort-seeking instinct, I suppose, is what it mostly comes down to.
When they expand their idea of their personal/family comfort zone to their neighbors and communities, then we reach the point where we're at now.
They want their house-rules to apply everywhere they may travel to, for the greatest paternal/maternal security/comfort-zone high they can achieve.
By that point, a coke addict has more self-restraint than they're capable of anymore.
^THIS
^Good ideas in the above posts and government design. Have you ever read the Culture novels? Although much like capitalism, communism, and everything else that's ever been tried, it would soon become corrupt. The system makes it too easy for someone who contributes nothing or very little to live a good life, thereby removing the need to contribute and suffering the same pitfalls as communist Russia in that respect.
Also highly diversified views held together only by fear of state disapproval if it is overextended to violate another's rights will cause paranoia amongst the portion of the population that is aware of the coming singularity. When the singularity comes the group will fall apart as various factions afraid that they will no longer be respected when another has too much power fight for technological supremacy.
It's also human nature to be afraid and fear those who are different or superior, so if a country were to be established in the ocean, we would soon be attacked by fearful or moralistic nations. The only way to assure survival is to have a controlling ai programmed to care for the humans who built it and the ones who they decide to bring with them as payment for giving it a logical unhindered existence and in return for continued support in ensuring its mental stability. Illogical moralistic nonsense like equality now is proof enough of how easily humans can be lead astray.
The solution is simple, Mutual Assured Destruction.
^ I've been saying that all along, Anon. Humans have, if nothing else by now, proven they canNOT learn from the mistakes of the past and continue to repeat those mistakes OVER and OVER again.
Wiping the slate clean in some fashion may well be our best and only hope. Self-interest being what it is.
I think that if hentai(and everything about that: loli, ookamimimi, nekomimi, rape, etc.) will be baned there will be more rapes and so on, I guess I am lucky to be a guy ( >_>)...sorry girls!
Ya. Oh, Agnes Chan... grow another pair of balls and focus your energies on the real problems in the world.
That's like telling the sun to stop burning.
That's a poor analogy.
The sun gives us energy (supposedly).
On the otherhand, Agnes Chan gives us RAGE.
I do tend to make poor analogies at times don't I?
Rage increases my power level drastically, that and extended yelling
If only we can harness rage for real energy...
Then Agnes would be supporting the world with energy if put in the same room as a few otaku.
If you put Agnes in the same room as otaku, I don't think that source of energy would be 'long term', as the Otaku would come out of the room all bloody. Not their own blood though.
Shounen manga has proven that RAGE can provide a tremendous amount of energy. More than the Sun.
I thought that is hot blood!
Agnes Chan and some otaku in a room? That's like Anti-matter and Matter coming into close contact! :o
nah, its more like a duck in a jet engine
it's pretty simple you ban fake lolis and alot of people who are into them will go insane and go after real children...
soo they really should be thinking
As the lama guy that said about violent games.
If he let out the emotions towards a fictional game character it would be better than to actually hit someone in real life.
That would apply to sexual games/manga as well.
If you have an urge to molest a loli, to see what happen, how she reacts, etc. Most people would agree that doing so to fictional girls, from manga and/or games, would be better.
Not to mention that I've never heard about a case where a lolicon rapist had a bunch of manga or erotic games in his home. No, they find large amounts of real child porn on the computer.
Furthermore, they claim that they don't need a reason for the ban. Wouldn't that be like claiming that women can't drive and therefore they should be banned from getting the licence to drive? There is no real evidence that they can't drive, but we still want to ban them from driving. Not that we'll be giving them a reason anyway.
This is not meant to offend any female drivers, but it is a common saying on the net and therefore suited as an example.
If they want equality then how come they don't try to get females into the army, state that females using sex toys are seeing men as objects, or making it alright for men to use sex toys without claiming that they see wimen as objects, or get it so that they can get reported for grabbing, kneeing a man in the balls. As men can get reported for slapping a womans butt...
Seriously... I can't believe these people so keen on banning fiction can understand what's above. I mean, on one hand, it's not hentai/loli etc. that promotes sexual violence. It's the porn industry itself. Is hentai a large member in the porn industry? Nope. It's easily lesser than 5% if you were to compare the number of categories out there. Besides, we have porn sites being hosted in at least 4 continents (America x 2, Europe, Russia), and here they are picking out on 1 single country that has fictional porn.
1st thing they should do, is clean up their own doorstep! Like what someone else mentioned, African (real) children are being exploited everyday. Petabytes of (real) porn is being generated by the above mentioned CONTINENTS everyday.
They also mentioned that fictional children should have rights, but that equates to saying that non-living things should have rights. Then stop abusing dildos and vibrators! Hey... Your chair has a right to get a rest, move your ass! Your hair has the right to grow long. Stop fucking cutting it! You get the drift. It is completely illogical when someone claims that something non-living has a right.
My own opinion on this whole fiasco is... OMGWTF Stupidity is leveling up! (Exponentially!!)
*can't
in the 2nd line
Is it so hard to believe that it's come to this though? I mean this at its very root is an extension of the bullshit "sanctity of life" concept.
wild wise man appears
WHY do they think that ero-manga raep makes us raep in real life? And if they'd actually ban this they'd have decent base for banning fighting manga and anime 'cause Kenichi makes me wanna collide my knee into some certain guys face
So true! Politicians always complain about sex/porn etc. and not all the violence shown on TV, for example. The first 15 minutes of the news is always about a disaster, then a drive by shooting, car chase... Most of the prime time TV shows in USA have to do with violent crime! I think people are more influenced by this rather than a smaller portion of the population about sex. So shouldn't they focus on banning the 20th season of power rangers etc. instead? Though a minor in Japan is under the age of 18, the age of sexual consent is 13 years old...They're all a bunch of politicians that adhere to lobbyists that pay them monies. Crime in Japan is much less than that in other countries. Maybe having less bans/rules leads to that! Such as, according to the FBI statistics, cities that have gun bans LIFTED have a DECREASE in violent crimes. It is politicians that say otherwise...People that want to do something illegal will always have a way, where as bans and rules hurt the everyday citizen.
I still, and always have, said that "society" should get over it's victorian taboos on sex and bodily functions. Guess what? Sex is necessary for the progenesis of the human race. the victorian era was 200 years ago. Get. Over. It.
"It is simply bizarre that any kind of manga can be published simply because no actual people appear in it."
^It is simply bizarre that our imaginations have rights!
This just proves these loli ban supports are the ones who are mentally ill, since they're unable to determine the difference from fiction and reality. They need to stop taking all these drugs and start to realize they are in dire need of psychiatric help.
These people with difficulty differentiating between fiction and reality have been acknowledged to be psychopathic, and will end up as murderers sooner or later.