“Votes for Foreigners” Whips Up Storm of Xenophobia

Who cares if you vote or not, the government spends our money any way they want to....

Yeah man, join us on the fence. Feels good, man.

And, uh, ignore the oppression. kthx.

I think tax is nothing to do with the right to vote. I believe you have right to vote in your country even if you can't pay taxes because you have no income. And you have to pay taxes for other country if you make money in there.

Please tell me your opinions. I would like to know you guys really think "No Vote, No Taxes".

You pay taxes of what you eat, where you live and all the kinds of stuff that you have to buy even if you are unemployed, so what the fuck are you talking about? Oh, right! Another Anon living on his parents' basement.

Don't worry, these permanent residents will eventually be pushed and ignored to a breaking point eventually.

Hi to all, let me post an argument as a Japanese.

1.“False Comparison”
It is problematic to compare an ethnically-homogeneous nation such as Japan with USA or nations in EU which have immigrant or multi-ethnic background throughout history.

As for comparison with Korea, foreign suffrage in Korea is given to only a fraction of “high income” taxpayers (ex: 51 Japanese as of 2006).
Granting foreign suffrage to 600,000 zainichi-Koreans in Japan is completely different issue and should not be discussed in the same context.

In the first place, foreign suffrage is not something founded on the reciprocity principle such as Free Trade Agreement. It is rather similar to visa and should not be granted to anyone but people of trustworthy countries.

2.“Foreign Suffrage”
Japan: give citizenship to foreign residents who have lived in Japan for more than 5 years and are able to speak Japanese as good as the third-grade-students level. Not to mention that those with citizenship gain full suffrage at local and national levels.

EU: EU member nations grant the regional suffrage to “foreign” residents coming from other EU member nations. France and Germany do not grant their regional suffrage to the foreigners of non-EU nationality, I believe.

US: generally restricted to citizens, as artifact mentioned.

3. “THEY PAY TAX" argument also lacks valid basis.
With this logic, Japanese who do not pay tax will also lose suffrage.
Indeed, anyone who pay tax are definitely eligible for social security and administrative service such as use of infrastructure (roads, water, sewage, waste disposal, etc).
However, suffrage is completely irrelevant with taxation, and I believe that there is no such country where people would be exempt from the obligation to pay tax if they didn’t have suffrage.

4. “It’s just REGIONAL suffrage” argument stands on very narrow perspective.
Local and national governments are closely tied and virtually inseparable. How about establishment of nuclear power plant or military bases? These are important issues not only to regional people but also to Japan as the whole.

5. “Mr. Hatoyama’s unreasonable argument”

Mr. Hatoyama does not provide any reasonable bases to his argument. What he says is simply put as follows:
1) Because Japanese is not self-confident.
2) Since South Korea has already introduced foreign suffrage in regional basis.
3) Because Japan does not just belong to the Japanese (he literally says so).
Does it make sense to you?

6. “Foreigners in question”
Specifically speaking, the word “foreigner” here would refer to Koreans and Chinese because these nationalities will comprise the major part of immigrants if Japan enforces drastic immigration policy.

For many reasons, these Korean and Chinese generally have negative feeling toward Japan, and vice versa.
Then, seriously, do you really welcome and want to give suffrage to immigrants from neighbor countries showing hostility?

There just seem to be more risk than benefit.

High crime rates of Koreans and Chinese should also be concerned as Artifact mentioned above. In my hometown where famous hot-spring allure many foreigners throughout years, Koreans and Chinese are often a source of concern: fare-dodging taxi, shoplifting in supermarkets, carrying food and drinks into restaurants and pubs, washing cloths and spitting out phlegm in hot-springs, stealing supplies and goods such as towels, bathrobes, and even furniture at hotels.

7. “Zainichi” problems:
I have no intention to over-generalize zainichi population; they would consist of people of various classes and ideology. There would be substantial number of zainichi Koreans who somehow like Japan and are happy to have their peaceful life in Japan.

However, there are also concerns about their high crime rate, ties with Yakuza and illegal gambling industry, tax evasion, welfare cheat, etc.
In fact, many zainichi Koreans (as well as South & North Koreans) express long-standing hostility toward Japan, refuse to sing Japanese national anthem, and do not pay any respect to Japanese national flag. They continue to remain as Koreans over several generations in spite of their freedom to gain Japanese citizenship.

Considering these, is it really safe to give them suffrage even at local level?

writing English is very time consuming for me, just exhausted now...

Good night to all! おやすみな～

Hi, Artefact. I'm sorry for not addressing the issue of an aging society.

I admit that immigration policy would be a viable solution to the problem in a certain extent. An influx of immigrants would provide labor force, raise total fertility rate, rejuvenate the economy, and maintain the national pension system if successful.

However, there are several pertinent issues to be addressed before rushing immigration policy into orbit.

1. Complex social welfare systems (which even native Japanese get confused), lack of the second language education system and national Employment Security Office for immigrants, and other insufficient management system required for mass immigration.

2. The need to strengthen penalties.

3. Most importantly, the potential risk of mass immigration policy. Has European-style mass immigration policy been really successful? How about Germany, Italy, France, the United Kingdom, and Netherlands? I am not 100% sure, but all of them experienced the failure of “mass immigration" policy and now moving toward “selective immigration” policy.
(Reference: “Immigration and the Dutch Economy” http://ideas.repec.org/p/cpb/spcial/47.html)

I don’t think mass immigration policy is something absolutely vital for an aging society and the only way Japan must resort to.
To me it seems like there would be other alternative solutions such as selective immigration policy, tax increase, countermeasures to the low birthrate, extension of the mandatory retirement age, etc.

If you had no foreign help, Japan would be dead. The end.

without contact and immigration a culture stagnates.
intolerance and prejudice just breeds more of the same and if japan is worried about unruly foreigners, then it should approach them and help integrate them, rather than be a buch of racists.
also most problems with immigration come from the government treating the immigrants as second-class citizens, not fromimmigrants being naturally criminal.

Rest assured motaku, as a most wonderful fact, I am omniscient and omnipotent!

motaku, you've never heard of trying on another person's shoes? A person can look at things from multiple perspectives without being a god. If more people tried it, the world would be much better for it.

Nevertheless the hostility towards N.Korea drags the korean residents in the same bunch.

They can, actually.. Alot of the Koreans in Japan are NKs to begin with. I think they have to send tribute money to their home government from their income, though.

No, they hate South Koreans.

It's not the pride or the xenophobia, it's the fact that, well, for example most Yakuza nowadays consist mainly of people of Korean descent, and the fact that Koreans in general have an unusually negative view of Japan, evidenced in the fact that South Koreans have vehemently opposed even a mention of Japan modernizing Korea in school textbooks, a change suggested by some historians there. (And the recent attack on Sankaku)

Combine this with the fact that most commercials for the evening news are by Pachinko stores (believe me they are), of which over 90% are run by Koreans, thus influencing the news - this was appalingly proven around ten years ago, when all the major TV networks decided to bash the ruling party for every single reason they can think of. This is why 2channelers despise Japanese TV, because they are so biased and sensationalist. Imagine a pro-Korea FOX news being on every channel.... yeah. Remember the abrupt resignation of a minister here, acting like a drunk? The Japanese media bashed and bashed based on the fact that a reporter on MSNBC laughed during the news ("this is on international news, and Japan is being laughed at!"). Ugh.
Also you need to take into account the fact that the leader of the LDP has Korean relatives.

In short: The Japanese are as smart as you. We aren't idiots or simply xenophobic. We are genuinely angry at the media and the party it protects. And many of us have personal Korean friends. If you thought otherwise, then you sir, are a fag.

hmm, you think it'd be possible to grant voting capabilities to just foreigners of non-korean descent? lol