Well known censorship advocacy group UNICEF accuses Japan of turning the rest of the world into lolicon child abusers and so demands harsh censorship measures be implemented, in their latest hateful tirade delivered at the world conference we heard of previously:
“In countries such as the UK, sexual or abusive depictions of children are illegal. Japan currently has restrictions on photographs of children, but the likes of manga and anime are not censored. As a result, problematic images flood out into the world.”
This risible scapegoating was delivered by moral crusader Dr. Ethel Quayle, a psychology lecturer at University College Cork (Ireland) who has published many works decrying the evils of the Internet in devouring children, and who also happens to be a darling of UNICEF for her appearance of academic credibility and constant porn-bashing.
Undoubtedly, she would like Japan to more rigorously emulate the UK, well known as a child paradise.
The next topic the conference discussed was the necessity of reforming Japan’s laws against underage prostitution and pornography featuring minors further still, which seems odd considering that these laws already seem highly effective, as evidenced by the multitude of stories we hear about their results.
We may yet hear more such one-sided hyperbole from this execrable gathering of moralists in their closing statements, due to be delivered on the 28th.
Via Yomiuri.
Whilst previously it was only the Japanese arm of UNICEF (albeit led by a Chinese pop-star) which pursued this line, in that case ridiculously demanding a ban on school swimwear in anime, now it seems the better part of the conference may be given over to Japan-bashing, apparently a topic of much greater importance to the group than preventing the deaths of children in the developing world.
Far from concerning itself with such inconsequential matters as reducing child mortality from disease and starvation in poor countries, or even tackling slavery and child soldiers, it seems instead UNICEF considers itself the international arbiter of what laws and cultural mores a nation must possess.
Not only this, their desire to curb artistic freedom of expression in countries demonstrably possessing extraordinarily high levels of child welfare seems unbridled.
Their goal will undoubtedly be to pressure the Japanese government into banning all “sexual” depictions of children in 2D works, as determined by UNICEF’s clique of UN-funded porn-hating child protectors, a decision the government has already cunningly deferred once in the hopes people will forget about it and leave it to pursue more important matters.
Those who value liberty and freedom of expression, as well as those concerned about the struggle for survival children around the world wage, may find support for this organisation to be ill-advised.
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Sometimes I'm confused as to just how much of this is tongue in cheek. I just hope we don't find imbeciles rallying against UNICEF due to this single issue.
I would say the only imbeciles around are those who support this organisation. There are much more effective charities operating which possess far less pronounced shortcomings.
I agree with there! Took the words right off my mouth.
I agree, it's somewhat hard to read the sarcasm here. To the editors on this site actually believe free speech should be upheld?
@ S_K
Solidarity bro. I find this antagonizing of Unicef over what is essentially an issue of moderate importance at best, to be both childish and self centered.
I realize Unicef isn't a perfect organization, and legitimate criticism can obviously be targeted towards them. But child pornography, even if it's fictional, is not a clear cut issue.
Freedom of speech defenders might argue that this is in distinct violation of their creed, but this is an argument that fails to convince me. True freedom of speech can exist in no political system save anarchy.
Hell, in some countries such as Australia, freedom of speech isn't even a legal right.
Ultimately however, one might disagree with Unicef, but to demonize them over this issue is nothing short of idiocy.
True, this is not a clear-cut issue, but surely there are more important issues to deal with? Especially given the relative rates of child abuse in, for example, Japan and the U.K. could actually argue for lighter restrictions, not a ban.
Obviously these statistics are not perfect, and may be skewed by under-reporting and the like, but still.
Given that as you say this really isn't a clear-cut issue, it seems like there are much more obvious issues that could be dealt with–child soldiers, poverty reduction, and basic sanitation for example.
You sure talk alot for someone who doesn't know shit.
I won't pretend your point is blatantly unreasonable, but to paraphrase a quote from Neil Gaiman, "The law is not a precision instrument. It is blunt like a club." Trying to ban lolicon is like trying to preform surgery with a club - no matter how hard you try to focus on the "problem" area, you are going to damage other organs.
Moreover, as you point out, there is no proof that lolicon is a problem at all. In fact, what evidence I have seen seems to indicate just the opposite.
Well, as a parent I can understand why the UNICEF doesn't want the publication of sexual depictions of children.
Encouraging perverse behaviors in predisposed people isn't going to help our children being safe from sexual predators. The usual lolicon (lolita complex)and shotacon (shounen boy complex)diffused by the mangas tend to depict sexual intercourse with children, as normal and pleasurable with enlightened information and consent of both parties, which isn't possible for the age category the children characters are assumed to belong to. In that case, UNICEF isn't saying "don't draw mangas" but "don't draw naked or almost naked children in mangas". What is so difficult to understand and accept.
On a side note, protecting children against military use, malnutrition and work abuse goes with this fight also. None of them is less important than the others for the normal growth of a child.
Forokys
I wish I hadn't trick-or-treated for all those pennies if THIS is what I knew UNICEF was going to do with them.
I feel so used
Same here, what a let-down. School made UNICEF sound like a really good organization back then. I'd rather have spent those pennies on candy. And my lolis.
Sadly enough, that's how it goes. :(
I used to do the trick-or-treating drive for them too.
They really should concentrate more on those children who need the help, rather than the illustrated ones in anime, who can pick themselves up and start over. The REAL children don't necessarily get that chance.
so basically all of you are pedophiles. if you like loli you're a pedophile, you like minors in sexual context.
All healthy males like minors in a sexual context.
While fdgfdgd's comment is as ridicuolous as his name, Artefact's reply sounds interesting.
All healthy males like minors in sexual context? What exactly do you mean by that, that all males think of minors the same way they do of legal people? Or that they are turned on by watching a minor having sex?
As far as I know, non-pedo people don't usually find naked children arousing, or think too much of it.
Do you have anything to support this claim, or is it just supposed to be a fitting answer to the comment above?
Minor: definition varies, typically anyone below 18-21. This covers a lot of ground which isn't really paedophilia in any meaningful sense.
Most men do in fact find pubescent (I don't know about pre-pubescent) girls attractive, there have even been studies which demonstrated similar findings.
They will respond the same basic way as long as the appropriate sexual characteristics are present - for most of history sexually active pubescent girls have been perfectly normal in most cultures.
This is the reasoning behind the legion of minor-related fetishes, after all. Schoolgirls, especially catholic, teacher-student fantasies, priests and nuns (80% of the time or so being far younger) and so forth.
If this doesn't exist, I dare you to explain the appeal of Britney Spears and the rest of the Mouseketeer crew to male fans. If you say music, I will laugh and say you are a damned filthy liar!
like and love are 2 different things.
ahh... wtf :< its such a baseless argument
You can have japan's loli when you pry it from their cold dead hands. Also I wish these people would realize that that DRAWN IMAGES isn't child abuse and hurts no one. Actually i'd be willing to bet it would stop more abuse than what it causes but thats another story. They should stick to helping kids who really need it, not imaginary ones.
That is what I'm thinking also.
That is also what I'm thinking. They're probably just trying toexert their power, but Japan is a strong nation of lolicon so it will be a harsh battle.
Well in the us at least the feds make the argument that it will just make you wanna get some non anime cake. My friend saw a thing at school with one of the most inane arguments and it was.
When your hungry looking at picture of strawberry sundaes only makes you hungrier it's the same with porn.
I'm sorry but what kinda bs is that give me mah loli and no cake will be had (not that i would anyway).
'When your hungry looking at picture of strawberry sundaes only makes you hungrier it’s the same with porn.'
well it may seem like it makes sense but its assuming ur hungry in the first place.. so if u put it into this context.. unless ur already into rl loli u wont be tempted wen u look at 2d loli.. i hope i've got taht the right way round
Even then it wouldn't work, since a picture of food won't fill you, whereas loli pictures can help you release.
In that sense, I guess it'd be better to compare it to salad and steak, and the hungry people are either vegetarians or on diet.
Ignore this last part if you can't read Finnish. I'm way too tired to realize how silly it looks, or how to properly translate it..
Hehe, jos ei pysy dieetissään saa "kakkua" :D
Oh man, that's retarded. The better metaphor would be that seeing images of meat dishes will turn a vegetarian into a non-vegetarian... or seeing pictures of bottles of milk will cure lactose intolerance.
Of course those metaphors demonstrate the opposite, so it's fairly unlikely they'll be used.
But I have to wonder: why persist with this sort of propaganda given that it's so transparently bullshit? They get paid for it, obviously, but what's the point? Power? If that's the case then this stuff is some pretty sordid shit right thur.
"To make the world a better place," I suppose. No matter how mistaken they are, most of them truly believe they are making a positive impact on the world.
I want to one day know how many people, and especially lolicons, actually think of anime kids as representation of real kids. IMO, most anime kids (and most anime characters) are about as real as an anime succubus with functional wings and a tail, or furry anthro characters: impossible IRL. This is why I usually assume westerners who call themselves lolicons are more likely to be into a breed of petite, fairytale type 2D-midgets, than real children.
I think you're right. If you measure and analyze 2D lolicon images, the leg length and hip width ratios almost always fall within in the adult range. This is rather interesting, as those ratios act as a sort of innate biological "signal" for mating suitability. Card Captor Sakura's long, widely-spaced legs are a perfect example of this.
Basically speaking, it's simply the head vs. body length ratio that determines whether one looks "imouto" enough (cf. imouto/ane slider from 3dCustomGirl).
That and the flat chests and absence of pubic hair. Can't forget those two :3
This is rather interesting, as those ratios act as a sort of innate biological “signal” for mating suitability. Card Captor Sakura’s long, widely-spaced legs are a perfect example of this.
All subjects related to loli have to come back to Cardcaptor Sakura, don't they!?
Man, for someone to watch that anime, and then to fantasise about the 10 year old girls in that, shame on them! SHAME! SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMEEEEEE!!!!
well, card captor sakura was around a long time ago, perhaps he was still young enough to fantasise about it back then. though I agree with u if the guy s 40 or somethin SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMEEEEEEEE!!!11one!
Well. That nails it down. CCS has been around for a long time. Tomoyo in the anime gives off subtle sexual undertones at times.
As result, there's tons and tons of naughty CSS doujin or whatever else around, and wether wantingly or not, many certainly stumbled across that, wether recently or ten years ago.
I think that is why CCS gets pulled out for stuff like this that often.
So instead of helping situations like those in Dafur, they instead focus on anime?
I don't know. They must have some weird mental problem or something. ==
Anime would not be anime with all those things they want banned.
Freedom of artistic expression or not (come on, what has Moe-tan and the likes to do with art and expressing yourself? :D), anime/manga in Japan gets away with stuff that would never ever fly anywhere else. Some "innocent" sukumizu or pantsu fanservice is one thing, but there are shows made with only blatant fanservice in mind.
And while blots of ink on paper don't hurt anyone, and it would be certainly better if real pedophiles fapped to 2D lolis instead of molesting real children, there's no proof that 2D lolicon is not spilling over into the 3D world... re: that 6 yo. "idol" girl, loli dolls... Eugh.
3D existed long before 2D did. It's much more likely that 3D spills into 2D, not the other way around. At most, 2D is just a warped reflection of 3D, not the cause.
So there is no proof of a negative?
what the shat is that kind of reasoning?
I mean theres no proof that theres not a teacup orbiting mars at this time, but i think we can reasonably assume that there isn't.
And how can we reasonably assume that?
1- We are the only known species to make and use teacups, and
2- There are no manned crafts orbiting Mars.
These two items constitute EVIDENCE that there are no teacups orbiting Mars (though a minuscule chance exist that there might be).
Evidence currently suggests that an increase in consumption of pornography within a community significantly reduces the instance of sexual crime. ERGO, there is evidence that lolicon produces a positive effect.
so you can judge what art is and what art isn't? you should totally work for a museum or a gallery. it's not everyday a person comes along and can judge an intangible thing that easily and also have the gall to tell others that they should or shouldn't be allowed to look at it. for your 2nd part of your arguement about no proof of it spilling over, have you ever heard of the church of the pink invisible unicorn? they worship an invisible pink unicorn, it is a religion based in scientific fact and religious belief. they no for a fact the unicorn is invisible because they cant see it but they have faith that it is pink. sound ridiculous? yeah so does your argument
I believe what he was trying to explain is more like a theory than absolute true. I do agree with him if loli-manga could make pedo focus on that instead of attacking real kids, I would be happy. For the moe-tan fact, I think moe-tan is really provocating about his content. I agreed, it's not just a loli product, it goes further, but I do enjoy the funny stuff in this anime like when they are changing and the duck drool/cat nose-bleed. Loli product are not necessary bad things, it's depend how you show and use them. Like Kodomo no Jikan, I believe this is something really well made (but sometimes, I do think they use lolicon service just for a laugh). All the psychology behind them. If you look at our school today, you will see that girls of this age start acting more and more like kokonoe. For a first fact, the way they are dressing themselves, like a %#$^&.
While this logic is flawed in my opinion (as pointed out by Anon, Lafitte and smooches above), I still have to agree on the Moe-tan thing.
Trying to watch it made me feel like it's geared at commercially exploiting actual pedos instead of your average lolicon (as per the western interpretation of the word).
I seriously couldn't get myself to watch it, and that's despite me being a huge Kodomo no Jikan fan. Sigh.
Haha UNICEF you silly bastards.
Good thing no one really gives a shit about their opinion. (And we're talking about the great Kingdom of Nippon here.)
Poor starving children.It's nothing new that UNICEF wastes money on stupid shit, or somehow manages to "lose" it.
Loli's on my lap alright with the world.
UNICEF, why don't you admit that you want to exclusively take care of the anime & manga children instead of the lousy ugly 3D children?
Why not take care of the child soldiers and starvation in other parts of the world.. They need more help. In fact, we need not this form of "help". Its not like we're gonna go touching the child in kindergardens after watching loli anime (-_-||)
Speaking of Child Soldiers....
Jack Bauer= 24: Redemption
Feed the effing already
UNICEF: "... buuuuuuut that's too hard!!"
2D lolis don't make pedos. UNICEF does.
Hmm. I wonder if the problem is not related in part to the high visibility of otaku tastes due to their domination of the internets? Anyone casually browsing the anime & manga online scene these days cannot help but notice the current focus on underage (or pseudo-underage - Konata may well be 17 but the casual observer of an ero pic would certainly not think so). For instance, I browse this site regularly (and kudos btw for so rapidly becoming the no.1 not-review blog, the effort you put in shows a mile off) but even though I would not consider it lolicon, I would hesitate before pulling it up in front of my wife, or indeed at work - even with NSFW images collapsed I feel people would wonder why a grown man was looking at it. Personally I also feel the "it's only 2D" argument fails. If you enjoy looking at (or fapping to) drawn art which represents a child this does represent pedophilia! The Oxford English Dictionary defines a paedophile as 'someone who is sexually attracted to children'. That seems pretty simple to me - you do not have to be a physical abuser to be a paedophile and looking at those loli images may not be the same as downloading child porn in the eyes of the law (depending where you live) but surely you can accept they are fulfilling the same basic urges, those of being sexually attracted to the child form? As long as individuals refuse to accept or confront this, any argument are made null and void to many, as an accusation of denial can immediately be raised. Be careful, otaku - the eyes of the world are very much upon you.
Part of the problem is exhibited in what you say here (in fact I saw a quote from a Japanese academic on 2ch making just this point):
There is a vast difference between the statutory definition of child and the intuitive definition.
It is completely inappropriate to call men (or women) attracted to adolescent girls paedophiles - it is completely natural to be attracted to young and sexually developing girls, and has always been so. Evolutionary biology so dictates.
Only in the last few centuries has human childhood been extended through the teens and into the twenties, and has ethical thought strived to strip adolescents of agency.
We can hardly say that all prior human sexual history consisted of psychological abnormality; rather, the cultural norms have recently changed in many (but not all) parts of the world.
Where we can make a useful use of the word is where men are only attracted to girls of a given age, or are attracted only to the very young in what may be considered a paraphilia.
"It is completely inappropriate to call men (or women) attracted to adolescent girls pedophiles"
- Quite right - the correct term for this is ephebophile.
That said, my point still stands that a lot of loli stuff is not showing adolescent girls, and the pics that are would still mislead the casual observer (lack of pubic hair, the whole petanko thing). Look at the pic of Taiga the other day - she is supposedly a high schooler (i.e. having started puberty) but the intrepid channer has reimagined her as having the physical assets of an 8yr old. I challenge anyone to look at that pic and think 'teenager'.
But then we live in a world where women go through agony having their pubic hair removed and even labia remodelled/hymens reconstructed to look more childlike and virginial, so who knows :)
We also live in a world where modern movies and TV try to convince us that 35-year-old breast-enhanced supermodel actresses are "teenagers". In real life, there are plenty of teenagers who don't have fully developed figures. This is especially true for Asians, who naturally look younger than Westerners. Taiga does look like a teenager.
As a side note, it's interesting that since modern imagery tends to be much more exaggerated, many current "loli" body shapes and designs would have been considered normal 15-20 years ago.
Seriously, you mean you have never met a ~22year old girl that have small breasts?
The reason that the "sexual age limit" has been raised it because sex is all too often used as a "bonding method" among couples. In contrast to some decades ago you have much more that you have to learn to become a functioning member of society and, because of the perceived contrast in intellect and knowledge between youth in their earlier years and the older ones, society somehow sees it fit to separate these two "groups".
While, in reality, many (at least of those I've met) 13-17years are both smarter and more "mature" (which is subjective) than most "adults".
Also you mean as long as the girl has the right shape it's okay to go after her? Even if she's 13-15 and you're 40ish?
Lastly, FYI.You have seen those adult friend finder ads here and there haven't you? Did you know that some of the girls in those "avatars" were around 15 years old when the picture were taken? One such example is Fanny Modin, the other being Elin something (can't remember the full name) and her friend.
As for uniserf, they're just after more power to help their masters. Also, they're a really good example of how humans don't want to help others out, they just want to boost their ego not caring whether what they do is helping or not.
Hope my writing is understandable despite my lacking in grammar.
Pretty good grammar actually. I had no trouble understanding you :).
I agree about the Power issue, and also about how some teenagers can be more mature than most adults twice their age.
What you're saying about people who masturbate to cartoon images of children being paedophiles is absolutely true. But that ISN'T the point.
The difference between you masturbating over an image of a young child, and a drawing of a young child. Is that one doesn't involve exploiting another, breaching privacy or a whole other load of arguments you can think of. The argument comes down to the fact that it promotes paedophilia. That drawn images promote paedophiles. The truth is, if you're looking at loli, you already are a paedophile. If anything, it's a good thing that you're looking at loli, and not at some other persons child.
By these criteria, all men are paedophiles, because any normal man can become aroused at the sight of adolescent girls who are underage...
I like drawn loli. (And am not exactly afraid of admitting so.)
Real girls at the same age (and even years above that)? Imagining them in sexual situations (which you just made me do, you bastard!) triggers a very strong 'Fuck no!' reflex that in my case even brings slight stomach cramps.
I'd like to read your reasoning that believably explains why exactly I am a pedophile. Thanks.
Well, I would find RL girls attractive if they were like drawn lolis.
But when actually in the presence of them, oh, such a pain in the ass.