“Second-hand” Nagi Provokes Otaku Storm


The revelation that flat goddess Nagi-sama, of Kannagi, had a boyfriend and thus may not in fact be a virgin has provoked a storm of outrage on 2ch, with obsessive fans vowing to throw out their manga, cancel their dakimakura orders, etc. Otaku viciously proclaim they have no need of a “second-hand” wife.

Others hold this to be the era of Zange-chan, available for a mere ¥100 a go

The problem stems from a few lines in the latest chapter:


There’s no need to go into spoiling detail on the rest (not that there really is any).

Their histrionics are seen as all the more ridiculous considering no actual allusion to sex has even been made, just the introduction of an “ex-boyfriend character”.

It is also noted that those complaining are the main audience for all manner of interesting doujin works

About the only worthwhile point raised is that the timing of such a revelation (if indeed it is such, and not merely the obsessive ravings of a thousand NEET virgin hunters) seems odd, given that it arrives just in time to coincide with the DVD release and therefore have a deleterious effect on sales, assuming such otaku are numerous enough to have an impact. Possibly there is some mistake?

Another interesting point raised is that for a thousand-year-old goddess to be a virgin might just be the more objectionable, though perhaps not to otaku.

You can read the relevant portions of the thread here.

Perhaps these wretches would like to file for a virtual divorce?

Leave a Comment


  • I hope that statement of Nagi having a “lover” is merely a result of wrong translation. In my language, word used for “lover” means that this person definetely had sex with the discussed one. In original version they could mean a little other thing, such as simply “guy” or “boyfriend” without that kind of relations. And as someone already stated, you can’t tell could our understanding of “virginity” be used towards gods of nature or not. And moreover, Nagi is approximately older than 60 (considering that people started to worship her from the beginning of WW2), why the hell do youthink she had to stay innocent all this time? Also, Nagi has split personality, just like Zange/Hakua. Maybe Nagi-goddess just did overcome and get the hold of mind and body of Nagi-spirit and only she was both mentally and physically in love with Ozuma, and not usual tsundere Nagi. Why didn’t you think of that? Don’t lose heart, guys! What we really have to do is to pray Eri to recover completely and draw Kannagi not monthly, but weekly, as usual.

  • Why not make up your own fantasy girlfriend instead of crying whenever an artist changes something about his _own_ creation. That way, she’ll be everything that you want her to be and you will never be disappointed. She can even have a regenerative hymen! Reach for the stars, my friend!

    There is something eerie about Otaku behavior as well. It’s as if they expect women to be like little dolls that can be customized to suit their needs. It’s a good thing that those freaks will never carry on their twisted genes or disturb a poor women with their delusional fantasies.

  • This Victorian era bullshit is why I hate otaku/2ch (I don’t frequently read any sites that talk about 4ch, so I don’t know if this same prudish attitude prevails there as well. Most likely it does.).

    They’re almost like fundamentalist Muslims or Christians in their shitty sensibilities.

  • Anonymous says:

    I wonder why girls have to be virgin to be “pure” or “clean”..whatever.. While boys (including all the otakus getting angry over this whole thing) can have (or wish to have) sex with several girls without being a man-whore or becoming “unclean”. You otakus probably wish to have sex with some girl/character, or several.. So why can’t other girls/characters do the same?
    Also.. If otakus are so damn picky on getting a whife/girl friend that is still virgin, they ether got to hurry the hell up, get out of the house and find one before they lose their virginity, or becoming too “impure” for them. Stop being so damn picky and find a nice girl they can spend their life with, even if shes not a virgin. Or die without ever experiencing sex.. xP
    ~Find it out, before it’s too late!~

  • Anonymous says:

    “Another interesting point raised is that for a thousand-year-old goddess to be a virgin might just be the more objectionable, though perhaps not to otaku.”

    the best things in life need time.

  • Nagi great but I think virgin complainers are missing the point. In manga there are two types of sex idol.The virgin school girl slut (the Marilyn Monroe sailormoon type)and the worldly older woman miss Robinson type. Now it’s been revealed that Nagi may be both. She lost her memory and became a sailormoon parody.Now she being revealed as a worldly immortal who knows sex and life .
    Funny the fans are more upset that she’s a worldly Robinson type. Than the fact she might be a fallen evil god.And in fact now has become fallen/Evil/demon Dark god eating her old love to regain her power. LOL
    Becoming evil demonic no big deal but losing her virginity 200 hundred years ago is bad? HAHAHAHHAA!

  • So these crazy deprived fools actually think that she is their wife or something? AHAHAHAHAHA. I mean I myself prefer a virgin to one who is not but to go this far for a fictional character and with so little basis is just LOL.

  • Wtf!!
    The Otakus are powerfull and scary , to think they can take down to a company or a mangaka, just for this!
    well I just read the chapter 36, So until about 10 minutes ago I didn`t know anything about this situation!
    I really don`t care much, If she is virgin, for me It`s too sad, how Jin is thrown out of the scene ny Nagi, really sad!!
    Then, What happened with TAKENASHI Eri? Is she sick, Is she died, or Is she hiding? I don`t know what happened so If you can tell me I will thank you, but I don`t think that she doesn`t know the continuation of kannagi, at the least in her mind, so She is in a big trouble, I don`t know how big is the image of kannagi in japan, but remember the otakus are not fans,They are members of a religious order, and TAKENASHI Eri deceived them, because They thougt that they were worshipping a Virginal Goddess, So she gave them a heretic Goddess.

    Well I will be waiting, What is going to happen with the future of kannagi and Eri?
    Joder, Esos Otakus de mierda si que estan locos, y pensar que pueden acabar con la carrera de la mangaka por esa tonteria, bueno la verdad no se que tan poderosa ERA la Influencia de este manga en Japon, pero los otakus son unos fanaticos muy peligrosos, peligrosamente obsesivos, en fin eso pasa cuando creas un manga de chicas virginales y puras y de repente quieres darle un toque de realidad, con algo de drama, la verdad no se que habra pasado con la mangaka, oi que estaba mal de salud ,pero, que la continuacion se lanzaba en Enero y a estas alturas no haya nada de nada, es un mal indicativo, Estara Eri pensando como salvar la historia despues de esta reaccion del publico?,y recuerda cuando Nagi es posesionada por Dios y habla con jin para que salve a nagi, es una señal de que ya la mangaka tenia bien claro el como se iba a desenvolever la historia principal!.
    Y en lo personal insisto yo leo un manga para divertirme un rato, asi que la verdad no me importa para nada que la chica sea virgen o no? y recalcando que ya la gente llego al extremo de pensar en eso!, por Dios es un manga! en fin me parece mucho mas tragico y triste la situacion de Jin en la cual Nagi simplemente lo hace a un lado y lo ignora como si nada, y se lanza a los brazos de su ex, o el oficial no se, y para rematar justo cuando Jin se le iba a confesar.

  • What’s funny to me is that this makes the story way more interesting, and makes more sense. As much as people forget, Nagi’s a GOD. In fact, part of the really interesting part of the story is how much Jin keeps forgetting she’s a god. He gets all flustered by her, gets upset by her antics, and thinks of her more and more as a girl with special powers rather than a god. And he falls in love with that girl. Now, she doesn’t exactly help the situation, with her forgetting much of who she exactly is or what she’s supposed to be doing and laying a web of intentional and unintentional deception; but there are times where she makes it ever so clear that she’s a god, and has godly concerns.

    So now, she remembers a lot of who she is and what she is and what she did, along with an important part of her history. That’s interesting. It’s interesting that her former lover was a god of corruption, and very interesting that she feels she needs to join him. Way more interesting than her being a pure nature goddess who loves this one boy with all of her heart.
    I mean, this isn’t high literature, but it’s an interesting twist. I ask anyone how it could possibly NOT be pathetic to get upset that a fictional thousand year old god in a polytheistic world has had prior relationships. Honestly, is there any way that it isn’t just deeply and pitifully pathetic?

  • Everyone’s got unreasonable expectations. Men want adorable sexually skilled yet completely inexperienced virgin moeblobs. Women want compassionate sensitive fresh-scented strong-willed manly men who make 10 million yen per year.

    It ain’t happening.

  • Well personally I don’t care whether a girl is a virgin or not, it’s past already right? ^-^

    But why don’t we look it this way: Nagi is a goddess, she might had a lover previously in her life. Well I don’t know wheteher she had sex or not, but at present, Nagi’s SOUL resides in FAUX BODY created by Jin right? So basically the faux body is definitely a VIRGIN!! Because it’s recently made and no guys have ever plunge it yet!! (^0^)HURRAY!!

    I’m wondering why those many otakus didn’t notice this… (-_-)??

    • Probably because we’re more concerned over her mental virginity than her physical virginity.

      Which begs the question: if she lost her virginity and forgot about it due to goddess brain damage, would her mind be pure?

      Or conversely, say she was a virgin but a non-virgin entity merged with her mind (think Rogue and Miss Marvel) then what?

  • People that would throw up such a fit over something so incredibly trivial only deserve to be shot as an example of the kind of filth the world should never put up with having to cater to.

  • We don’t know whether Nagi can/could have sex in first place. I mean, she (or should I say ‘it’?) doesn’t have to have a 100% female body (unlike Zange that has posessed a REAL girl). We don’t know how long does she exist, how many vessels she had before and what she did (not do) to them..
    To sum up, there’s nothing to base this rant upon. It’s just plain stupid.

  • The otaku culture and their abundance of idiocy(Yes I’ll attack them as a collective and generalize all of them!) never ceases to amaze me. I know it probably has been stated over a thousand times in response to this article alone but….


    Now enjoy your shattered dreams! Maybe they should get out and try to find a real girlfriend?

  • I notice a lot of the type of misogyny among Otaku from both sides of the world. Even on English speaking image board, while they don’t make such a big deal about a fictional character, they still loudly insult any woman who they deem to be “slutty” even if when they are perfectly normal. This anger is mainly rooted in their frustration and anger due to the fact that they all know that they will never ever be with a woman, even if they where alive for a thousand years like Kannagi has.

    Plus, I would feel sorry for kannagi if she really where a virgin, over 1000 years of life and no sex at all? thats too dull an existence to contemplate. Otaku need to understand that no woman will ever be willing to sty pure for that long just so they can please some geeky loser. They need to learn that the only way they can ever have sex or get married would be if they meet a woman who is very easy and or desperate. That, or change their attitude severely, get a real social life and stop judging fictional women so harshly.

    I personally think that making Kannagi a non-virgin is a very good move on the part of the Manga-Ka. It differs from what one would expect of that character and it is a plot twist that has never been done before an original idea, and most mange these days are truly lacking in originality. Now I know why, Otaku send death threats to anyone who dares write something that goes against their ridiculous status quo.

  • hahaha, this explains those comments of “Pre-owned waifu” I read a month ago back when I got into Kannagi with watching the OP

    I thought they were just trolling around at first

    but still

    it’s a fictional character

    people need t calm down here

  • Guynamedmystery says:

    well i understand where there coming from i guess, theres probably more to their argument anyways.

    the show does over stimulate her innocence to death

    kind of makes it hard for otaku who had genuinely ‘love’ for her character, to find out shes wearing the scarlet kanji.

    • Wow, both side is pretty pathetic. Personally, I would rather like her stay clean but if that’s not the case, there should not be an outrage over it. The other side is pretty pathetic too. Because someone wants their idol to be clean does not mean that it’s because they want to screw her.

      Personally I believe in sex afte marriage but who knows, he might be someone who she actually cares about so stop freakin calling her a slut or a whore already.

  • It’s amusing because, if they hadn’t brought up the issue of whether or not she was a virgin, the thought never would have really even come to me.

    Haha, not that I really care, but it just goes to show the kind of mania you’d need to get that crazy.

    The the maggots should be happy, really. If she had, she at least lost it to someone – anyone, less pathetic than them. Might seem harsh, but come on. Listen to them. It’s hilarious.

  • I’m just going to laugh.

    I stopped at the image of the male lead looking like a retard. I also stopped at where the tag line says “the guy is useless.” I could be fooled with shows like Certain Magical Index, but no more.

    The otaku-tachi always seem to throw a fit whenever someone else’s penis ruins their otaku dreams of having a waifu. Those who can; need to get out more and have lives before it’s too late for them.

    • Honestly like, she seems more defiled because she’s in love with the creepy guy moreso than if she had sex with someone. Like if she had seduced a shota and abused him, or if she got raped, I could forgive that, but not melting at the sight of a tall dark stranger, regardless of sex.

  • Man~~~

    What the hell is this?

    Just because Nagi had a boyfriend before, it doesn’t mean that she HAD SEX with him, right? I mean.. Seriously… I think their brain is already messy.. So fucking stupid retarded…

    I really love Nagi so that’s why I really hate otakus who thinks that she’s not a virgin anymore.. IT’S NOT OFFICIAL, DAMMIT!!!

  • Virgin Otaku says:


    I’m a virgin otaku and some of the comments made are broad generalizations.

    I don’t mind non-virgin waifu, because deflowering is violent and bloody and I don’t want to do that to someone I love.

    If only lady don’t insist on having grand church weddings in pure white dress then I have no problems with non-virgin wife. But if she wants De Beer’s diamond engagement ring mined from the dead corpses of Leonardo Dicaprio’s South African extras which means I am paying full price for my bride, she better have p**** reserved just for me. In summary, I will still ‘buy’ (i.e. marry). But gimme good discount, please. With worsening global economy, not everyone is getting richer.

    But definitely no child from another man! No, no, no! That child was your choice and I will not support you. Women with kid in tow seeking never-married men seems to be a trend nowadays.

    Also, most boys in my country get first experience from an older more experienced friend. I understand since I like onee-san big-sister characters best.

    But I understand the trouble here because Nagi is not a big sister character… she is definitely a pure love character so that’s why it shatters expectations because all the stereotypes are not met exactly.

  • This kind of delusional behaviour takes a little down my otaku pride. It’s a little excessive, IMO.

    A ‘fetish’ with a character is fine, I think, but this is simply too much.

    Asd, I lost a little the idea of the rest of my comment .-.

    I Hope I express well enough.

  • This is me making another comment, woo.

    Well, having given the subject a bit of thought, I can only come to this conclusion. Being something of a virgin myself, I tried to picture how these people think:

    You’re getting older. That’s a natural fact. Most people have their first sexual experience round their late teens, some in early twenties. They probably at least want to do this with people of a similar age-group and, thus, level of experience.

    Once you start hitting mid-20s higher, being a virgin makes you something of a rarity. There aren’t really that many of the opposite gender with the same non-existant level of experience anymore. And those who are, are generally in the same boat as you and are too uncomfortable with approaching strangers to get it on.

    Now, the years go by, you’re a sad, bitter loner and the only thing that keeps you going is that, at least these 2-D / idol-girls are as “pure” as you. “purity” here being sexual experience, usually not age.

    It’s a kind of mental trap. And when you’ve led yourself into it you’ve become so dependant upon this fictional person that when it is revealed that she was “better than you”, everything falls to pieces.

    I still feel absolutely no pity for these sad excuses for men, however. It is exactly this kind of idolization that presents impossible women to growing young men and raise their mental bars for how women should be like.

    It is, as some have said, sexist and unfair, but that’s just how it is.

    This was a completely biased post by someone who should’ve been doing something better with his time. I still like Nagi and I’ll still watch Kannagi.

  • Wow. There’s a lot of comments here. Aretefact, what’re you heading for, 5,000,000 hits? I think this discussion alone may send you hurtling towards that number!

    Anyway, I don’t feel like writing out a long-ass comment so… the highlights:

    – Yes, otaku are pathetic when it comes to things like this. I weep for them, for they are my brothers.
    – It’s not actually outright stated that she has been “used” so it’s really annoying, but even so…
    – It’s a fictional character! Just find another show and move on! Oh, wait… Back to the first point.

    • The Otaku don’t care for what you think, only what statisfies their own gratification.

      To put it like this, you love this girl (Nagi) so much you masturbate to her constantly, even despite loving/masturbating to other girls.

      But when you hear the love of your life has had a boyfriend, and that you might not be able to have that intimate, sexual experiance first time with her, and to best put it, someone might have ‘de-flowered’ her, or have even soiled her slightly, you would not be best pleased.

      Imagine a perfectionist unable to perfect.

      This is the Otaku’s turmoil, and the reason why this is so lulzworthy.

  • man so much fuss for this, I think Nagi’s so damn cute, and as ppl say, she’s a tree right now or something like that, she has a virgin body and adult’s mind, she still cute and nice for me =D

  • Anonymous of /a/ says:

    I thought all the rage came not from the fact that she had a boyfriend, but because she was using a pure boy romanticaly interested in her to work for the desires of his ex, who is, btw, a fucking god of impurities (lol, some people still think that there is a chance she’s still a virgin…), and a total ass.

  • “see your gfriend having sex with another with another guy.”

    Thats exactly what I was thinking.
    I’m still not able to dislike her, but it somehow rly makes me sad. D:

    It was the same with Kohaku and Sakura.
    But I guess I was more disturbed about the fact that the poor girls were being raeped when they were young…

    Well, for me there is no need for a 2D girl being not a virgin. Just makes you feeling down. xD

    I think she was a virgin. There is blood when she slept with Shirou the first time. Though she says afterwards “I know how to make a man happy.”…

    • OK,although i remember it clearly ,still, i searched out my disk, fortunately with my savedata still alive, loaded into the game, and SCRUTINIZED(lol) the scene cg/pic again.
      there was definitely NO blood. or is it that i’m not hardened enough to find it?lol

      ok, this topic ends here.

      • No, Saber was definitely deflowered.

        The mosaic hides most of the details (like it usually does), but there is a thick streak of dark red blood visible just beneath it.

        Her comment about knowing how to “please a man” really doesn’t have to mean anything other than that she knows the technicalities of sex.

        Yeah, I know – I just had to defend her honor. 😛

        • Anonymous says:

          You guys realize that girls aren’t supposed to bleed when they have sex, right? Not even the first time? If they’re bleeding that’s a sign of something being wrong. Insufficient lubrication, or being too rough, for example. The hymen does not cover the entire interior. It covers less and less as a girl gets older, infact. You can literally have sex without breaking it at all, and it could even break on its own from something as simple as taking a hard fall.

          This entire bleeding as a sign of losing virginity myth is so widespread that it’s truly ridiculous. Yes, I realize I’m about 7 years late to the party, but I figured I’d point that out at least, since not bleeding doesn’t mean anything.

  • Well, i don’t mind with this “second hand” thing. Just look at the good side, She got experience in sex, and might satisfy you 😛

    Or may be I’m not too obsessed with 2D chars virginity status…? XD

  • I had preferred if Nagi could keep on being innocent and pure.

    For me it is enough that real people like us like to talk about how many boy or girlfriends they had, how much sex they get and so.

    For romantic character like Nagi in a rabukome like Kannagi I want something more innocent that reminds of the time I was a young boy in school.

    But, there is still no proof that Nagi has not been more innocent than normal persons like I would expect a holy tree god to be and I do not really expect to read that Nagi has been dirty in the manga, so I will not lose hope!

    • Granted, i’ve only read whats been translated, and I havn’t watched the anime in a while, but isn’t Nagi not attracted to Jin in the first place? She even stated that she already had someone she loved. More likely love interest is Tsugumi.

  • this reminds me of the american tv show Felicity, which the main heroine did a her-cut between seasons and the ratings for the show drop.

    shows you that even the slightest changes can cause fans to overreact.

  • Man….

    Just because she had an ex-boyfriend… just because of that, they think Nagi is not virgin anymore?

    Gimme a break dammit… That’s the dumbest think I’ve ever heard in my life….

    Anyway I still love Nagi…. I don’t give a DAMN care about that..

    Pettan Goddess FTW!!!!

    • Lord Byegone says:

      xD jajajajajajaja, tenia tiempo que no me Tenia tiempo que no me reía tanto xD.
      Estos otakus fundamentalistas de la pureza xD , bueno.. ya puedo imaginar las discusiones maritales de aquellos que se casaron con Nagi xD
      Aquí un ejemplo:

      -OtakuX: ¿Cómo pudiste engañarme Nagi?
      -Nagi: ………………
      -OtakuX: ¿Es que no tienes nada que decirme?
      -Nagi: ………………
      -OtakuX: ¿No recuerdas los días que dejaba de ir al colegio por verte a ti?
      -Nagi: ………………
      -OtakuX: Todo te lo di… ¡Maldita sea! y tu…..
      -Nagi: ………………
      -OtakuX: (llanto prolongado)
      -Nagi: ………………
      Pram!!!!!! (Sonido de computadora cayendo desde el tercer piso de un apartamento)
      -OtakuX: (encerrado en el baño, sonidos no identificados)
      ¡ESTOY SOLO!, ¡SOLO!, ¡SOLOOOO!!!!
      (manos llenas de semen)

      Un ejemplo típico xD

      • So the English speakers can get in on the lulz:

        How could you lie to me, Nagi?

        Do you have nothing to say to me?

        Don’t you remember all the days that I skipped class to watch you? [Something along those lines]

        I gave you everything… goddamnit! And you…

        (long pause)

        CRASH! (Sound of the computer being thrown from the third floor of an apartment building)

        (locked in the bathroom) I’M ALONE! ALONE! ALOOOONE!

    • Of course. We all would. And from a procreation standpoint, having goddess powers the children of such offspring would be well built to survive. It’s an evolutionarily sound idea that a man would look for the best genes in opposite sex.

      And she’ll be able to look over your kids for all eternity! It’s really a win win situation.

  • so here we see possibly most clearly the difference between western and eastern concepts about this over-discussed topic.

    you may find it difficult to understand but actually 99% of the female protagonists in anime/manga/gal are virgins,unless the series itself is the H kind without any notable plot other than sex, and even so ,mostly they are never “second-hand”(their only possible sex partner is the male protagonist).
    the only exception i can think of is Saber in the Fate series, and believe me, the rage here is no surprise to any native easterners.

    • It’s not a difference between eastern and western concepts, it’s plain old sexism and male chauvinism. The idea of a non-virgin girl being “used goods” is not foreign to the west (and pretty much to the whole world) though thankfully western society seems to be mostly over it. Mostly. As is Japanese society, as far as I know.

      The rage over a _fictional_ character not being a virgin wouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone familiar with otaku subculture. After all, otaku are regarded as maniacs for a reason, and male otaku are not exactly the defenders of women’s rights and gender equality.

      • I was going to make a similar point – it really is about maniacal virgin-complex otaku fantasists rather than anything cultural.

        The vast majority of the Japanese comments on this (outside of the thread) are absolutely scathing of, and disgusted with, the attitude of the Nagi haters.

        • Even if your observation (There is less outcry among western otaku than among eastern otaku.) is correct, that is not enough to conclude that eastern culture is worse than west culture.

          In the west, think about the people that would be outraged by the fact that a love interest is not a virgin: only people that take religion very seriously and quite narrow-minded come to my mind.

          What is the chance that such people would be western otaku? to be an otaku in the west, you have to get exposed to it and to get over a (albeit small) number of prejudices. Both are not very likely for the above-mentioned people.
          Hence, people that get to be western otaku rarely coincide with western people that hate the prospect of marrying a non-virgin.

          In Japan, I would guess that it is easier to be culturally narrow-minded and to be an otaku.

          My point is: there is as much stupidity on this matter in the west as in Japan, only this kind of western idiots are not into manga/anime/anything otaku.

        • im not saying that all easterns share the same concept but you should admit that there are overwhelmingly more estern haters/otakus than western ones/otakus that raged, and i think that’s something you call culture.

    • I can think of another who is an exception – Saki from Genshiken and maybe Ohno, although the latter doesn’t talk about her sex life all that much pre-Genshiken. And Saber was supposed to be a warrior maiden who never DID have time for love, which is why the ‘recharge’ scene was so significant in the game.

      Now, the Heaven’s Feel scenario…

  • Haha, these complaints just… reek of otaku-ism.

    As you say, she’s a thousand-year old goddess. And she doesn’t really seem like your typical wall-flower, so I’d say it’s a pretty certain bet there’s been a tumble or two…

    Then again, a lot of her character traits are stupid-innocent-ish (for example the “magic wand”), which I suppose could be an indication from the creator that she’s yet to have tasted “the forbidden fruit” and grown up.

    Still, such a silly thing to obsess about. このロリコンどもめ!

    • your local otaku says:

      why is this such a big deal…she must of had tasted “the forbidden fruit” once or twice in her long life,and i think she is simply a child at heart.

      Either way those that are complaining really need to get out more..but then again for those J-otaku already have a couple of screws louse as it is.

      • Question Mark says:

        if people keep setting their standards to unreasonable then they are going to crash and drown in their sorrows, I say put the Otakus at the stake or better yet throw them in public we’ll see how they are then

      • That’s certainly true of course. I didn’t think about that approach; and with the general morning musume-thing going (no boyfriend, no experience, no realism), I guess it kind of annoyed some people… I’m not all too familiar with Japanese idoltry (sp?) myself, so this all kind of came as a bit of a culture “eh?” to me.