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Obscenity Case in USA: Christopher Handley gave up?

Started 6 years ago by Hayami, currently has 17 posts - latest post is by Huey

Tags:
- ecchi
- first amendment
- Law
- laws
- loli
- Lolicon
- obscenity
- USA
- yaoi
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Hayami

Edit: I guess I should have posted it in "General". Could a mod move it there please?

In case you didn't read this article yet - read it now, it's worth it:
http://comipress.com/special/miscellaneous/down-the-slippery-slope-the-crime-of-viewing-manga

- you can just scroll down to :
" Christopher Handley's circumstances were vastly different "

The most important part is:

It should come as no surprise to learn that Handley has negotiated (but, as of this writing, not yet entere) a guilty plea in the hopes of receiving a lower sentence.

Also, see
http://www.iasd.uscourts.gov/iasd/judgecal.nsf/ViewByJudge-Web?OpenView&Start=1&Count=1000&Expand=4#4
( CTRL + F Handley )

And now this:

While I don’t feel comfortable saying much but I really wish his attorney would actually feel like there was a chance of winning this case. I dunno… when even your attorney suggests that a person take a plea bargain (...)
http://www.icaruscomics.com/wp_web/?p=2930&cpage=1#comment-45193
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Do you think, you'd keep fighting or would you give up too if you were in his shoes? (Sure we don't know all circumstances, but just assume the most likely circumstances.)
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I know, it's kinda late now, but do you think there's anything we can do to help Christopher Handley? Personally I donated to CBLDF last year (with a note that it's for Handley) and encouraged others to do the same, but even CBLDF's involvement and support of people like Neil Gaiman, Carl Horn and Jason Thompson didn't help much, it seems :(
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Exactly a year ago another obscenity case ended in a guilty plea bargain:
http://cyberlaw.org.uk/2008/05/18/karen-fletcher-pleads-guilty-in-red-rose-obscenity-case/
Just like Handley, Karen Fletcher was persecuted for pure fantasy, and there were even no images at all, just stories.
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P.S.
Please don't add Chris Hansen (or similar) tags, Hansen has little to do with obscenity persecutions.

Posted 6 years ago # Quote
Twintail Tsundere

I haven't read the links but I think mostly lawyers would want the easiest way out. If I had the money I would get a lawyer who has done similar cases, one who is trying not just to defend you, but the rights all people.

Plus the American legal system is set up so it's easier to give in then fight.

Posted 6 years ago # Quote
LunarSD

Oh god not this case again. They really should have tried getting the ACLU in to help.

If I were in his shoes I'd do my research very dutifully and start the marathon to the goddamned supreme court, or at least try to. As humiliating as they try and make these cases to help ensure they will process them quickly and increase their precedent pile, I'm far too passionate a proponent of free-speech. If in the end I would get jail time, I have no doubt at my ability to hunger strike, or whatever else could help the case gain public light, and hopefully an appeal with the ACLU behind me.

-----

The last comic book obscenity case the CBLDF defended that they tried to push up to the higher courts got denied upon first request.

That case, I recall, was where a comic book author was being tried for obscenity in his own material in the 90's, and the CBLDF managed to trim his sentence down to several hundred hours of community service, which he served at the CBLDF offices (lol). Not an optimal result, but better than Handley's seems to be going... jeez.

The CBLDF, as far as I know, has never had a single genuine success.

Man I just don't have the same energy I used to have to write about these topics. A few years ago I'd practically write a book in response each time I heard about a case like this.

But there are things in this world that can break a person psychologically.

Trying to defend imagination-based obscenity in an increasingly thought-policing country is such a thing.

Man I'm just so weary of writing depressing things about depressing societal problems.

If I could switch places with this guy, I might even do it, just to do what I could to push this thought-policing issue up to the supreme court.

-----

But then again, there are currently nine Supreme Court justices. 4 of them were appointed by Bush presidents (conservative), 2 by Clinton (liberal-ish), 2 by Reagan (conservative), and 1 who's nice liberal-leaning old man, whose time is almost up (appointed by Ford and still kicking, wow).

The majority lean conservative now, so what would the odds be an obscenity case could survive their wrath?

*sigh* This kind of thing makes me feel just peacefully disappearing into the ether would be better than having to continue observing the Orwellian spiral.

[Edit] The CBLDF aren't the lawyers here, just consultants. The United Defense Group is apparently the one aiding the case's cause. So I wrote that wrong above.

Posted 6 years ago # Quote
Nochegame

Fight the power!
thanks god I don't live in country with moralfags laws xD

Posted 6 years ago # Quote
LunarSD

Wait now I'm confused.

"Eric Chase and his team at the United Defense Group have been vigorously defending Handley, and scored a major First Amendment victory earlier this year when the judge found portions of the PROTECT Act unconstitutional in his ruling on a motion to dismiss. District Judge Gritzner of the Southern District of Iowa found that subsections 1466(a)(2) and (b)(2) of 18 U.S.C. 1466A unconstitutional. Those sections make it a crime to knowingly produce, distribute, receive, or possess with intent to distribute, "a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting," that "is, or appears to be" a minor engaged in sexual conduct. Judge Gritzner found that those sections restrict protected speech and are constitutionally infirm.

Handley now faces charges under the surviving sections of 1466A..."
--Source.

OK, so parts of the PROTECT act have already been judged unconstitutional. Didn't know that. There's something positive.

What are those "surviving sections"? The Miller test?

Doesn't the Miller test just mean the Jury flips a goddamned coin when it's time to read the verdict, as it's just a subjective opinion they would reach about whether they as a randomly assembled group of people find the art in question to be "ucky"?

Posted 6 years ago # Quote
Hayami

Subsections 1466(a)(2) and (b)(2) of 18 U.S.C. 1466A unconstitutional alright.
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The problems is that the Subsections 1466(a)(1) and (b)(1) may not violate the 1st Amendment, because Supreme Court confirmed before that obscenity is not protected by it.
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Stanley is right that you're allowed to possess obscene material, but on another hand the state may punish you for importing it or transporting it to another state (and probably for downloading as well).
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The whole concept of obscenity needs to be changed. Imo the only good reason for these laws is that minors (and people who don't want to look at it) are protected from being exposed to offensive stuff. This would be the base for a just obscenity law.
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/edit

LunarSD said:Handley now faces charges under the surviving sections of 1466A..."
--http://www.cbldf.org/pr/archives/000372.shtml

OK, so parts of the PROTECT act have already been judged unconstitutional. Didn't know that. There's something positive.

What are those "surviving sections"? The Miller test?

Doesn't the Miller test just mean the Jury flips a goddamned coin when it's time to read the verdict, as it's just a subjective opinion they would reach about whether they as a randomly assembled group of people find the art in question to be "ucky"?

Yep.

Also Justice posted today:

Brigid - From what I understand from talking to Chris there are only 7 pages of material that the prosecution is siding a good chunk of the case on.
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The reason that *I* think he was singled out - he is from a small town of slightly over 5000 people and probably one of a handful of people who even know what anime is. The community is extremely conservative and when a person gets several shipments from some odd place (in their eyes) like Japan it definitely makes them wonder whats going on.
http://www.mangablog.net/?p=4328

Posted 6 years ago # Quote
kajunbowser

Amazing, simply amazing. I can't believe that they made it so that he would think of giving up. From how this B.S. happened, a postmaster in Iowa "randomly" selected his order of yaoi manga he ordered for his manga collection from Japan. Because the characters did not have pubic hair drawn on them, he/she perceived this as child porn from Japan, even though these characters were 18+ years old. From there, the authorities were called up and they initially charged him with child porn and a bullshit state charge of indecency in public; they took his manga collection and his multiple computers. Eventually, they dropped the child porn charges after they actually did the research, but the indecency in public charge stayed.

Interesting, huh? A law that is interpreted differently depending on the community and/or state interprets it stays on. In fact, this isn't public at all since only a postmaster, whose morality base was rocked by such bl manga, was the only one that saw the "indecency;" this was never in public until the police got involved (like Ron White being drunk in a bar and being thrown into public). You can start the conspiracy theories if you wish.

The thing is if this case, even with the help of the CBLDF, turns out to be a loss of freedom for this collector, it will set a president for other cases like this (a reason why I think twice of ordering h-manga from J-List). Laws like this overstep their boundaries because some zealous d-bag of a representative wants to be the first one to write a law that protects people from something they deem as dangerous. On Iowa's level, the indecency law must be rewritten. As far as this case, it's risky, but take it all the way to the Supreme Court, despite what LunarSD says about the court (they're actually half-and-half, with Alito (I think) being the pendulum and one of Reagan's appointees became liberal after a few years. Even so, the liberals on the bench probably wouldn't give credence to this case). It's worth a shot, as long as he doesn't get labeled a pedo in this constantly updated reincarnation of 1984.

Posted 6 years ago # Quote
LunarSD

Hayami said:
Imo the only good reason for these laws is that minors (and people who don't want to look at it) are protected from being exposed to offensive stuff. This would be the base for a just obscenity law.

Hear hear.

Posted 6 years ago # Quote
Huey

Thats the beauty of 50 states they each have their own laws.

Not to sound ehh, but its seems most of these people are being caught
because they somehow have this stuff out in public. people should know how much people love tattle telling. even if they dont know what the hell they are tattling about

Posted 6 years ago # Quote
Hayami

Btw. there's a good analyse of legal status of obscenity in US in this article by Jeff Trexler:
http://blog.newsarama.com/2008/12/23/comics-child-porn-and-the-law/
as well as in the posts by Yukimura in this thread:
http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php?p=427331#post427331

Posted 6 years ago # Quote
LunarSD

M I N N said:
Thats the beauty of 50 states they each have their own laws.

Not to sound ehh, but its seems most of these people are being caught
because they somehow have this stuff out in public. people should know how much people love tattle telling. even if they dont know what the hell they are tattling about

A randomly inspected UPS box shipping to you is out in public?

Posted 6 years ago # Quote
LunarSD

kajunbowser said:
...a reason why I think twice of ordering h-manga from J-List...

The number of times I've wanted to support the brilliantly creative minds of some bizarre mangakas but held back because of this... (Shintaro Kago, for instance)

And such a climate of fear is exactly what they're interested in creating with these sort of cases. They want their average citizen's definition of "prurient" to be kept conservative, and to dissuade folks from supporting "obscene" art financially (this would perhaps make it appear too legitimate as art to them, and they certainly couldn't have that, since egomaniacs rage unrestrainedly and politically unless the world around them fits neatly into their subjective preference template).

But I just logged into YouTube an hour ago and the featured episode of "Happy Tree Friends" had over 14 MILLION VIEWS. As puke-worthy as I find that shit, I'm actually glad our kids are growing up on it. That kind of thing should help the average a little.

Posted 6 years ago # Quote
Twintail Tsundere

LunarSD said:

But I just logged into YouTube an hour ago and the featured episode of "Happy Tree Friends" had over 14 MILLION VIEWS. As puke-worthy as I find that shit, I'm actually glad our kids are growing up on it. That kind of thing should help the average a little.

Gotta love those double standards.

Posted 6 years ago # Quote
Hayami

LunarSD said:If I could switch places with this guy, I might even do it, just to do what I could to push this thought-policing issue up to the supreme court.

I guess I'd do the same if I could. It's not like I've much to lose, I wouldn't even mind if tomorrow this whole world of ignorance and injustice just disappeared.
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Oh, and we all may be hit by this "obscenity" crap because the most H and loli-related sites are hosted in US.

Posted 6 years ago # Quote
Huey

a postmaster in Iowa "randomly" selected his order of yaoi manga he ordered for his manga collection from Japan. Because the characters did not have pubic hair drawn on them, he/she perceived this as child porn from Japan, even though these characters were 18+ years old. From there, the authorities were called up and they initially charged him with child porn and a bullshit state charge of indecency in public; they took his manga collection and his multiple computers

LunarSD said:

A randomly inspected UPS box shipping to you is out in public?

Thats not what that says. in fact that whole paragraph sort of runs on, I cant make clear of it.

it just says the "postmaster" order "His" manga for "His" manga collection XD nothing about a random inspection

Posted 6 years ago # Quote
LunarSD

M I N N said:
it just says the "postmaster" order "His" manga for "His" manga collection XD nothing about a random inspection

"Mr. Handley’s case began in May 2006 when he received an express mail package from Japan that contained seven Japanese comic books. That package was intercepted by the Postal Inspector, who applied for a search warrant after determining that the package contained cartoon images of objectionable content. Unaware that his materials were searched, Handley drove away from the post office and was followed by various law enforcement officers, who pulled him over and followed him to his home. Once there, agents from the Postal Inspector’s office, Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency, Special Agents from the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation, and officers from the Glenwood Police Department seized Handley’s collection of over 1,200 manga books or publications; and hundreds of DVDs, VHS tapes, laser disks; seven computers, and other documents. Though Handley’s collection was comprised of hundreds of comics covering a wide spectrum of manga, the government is prosecuting images appearing in a small handful."
--Tada!

And for my next trick, Internet suicide pact! How about, if this case turns out to be another one that rules in favor of thought-policing and can't make it to the higher courts, we all just blow our fucking brains out on YouTube in a show of pre-emptive patriotism! Anyone else who's disgusted with the vanishing of free-speech into "obscenity", feel free to join me!

LOL @ life!

[Disclaimer: The above suicide-related nonsense is a joke. I'm not being serious. I'm just pointing out creatively how ridiculous this whole thing has gotten. Possible investigators reading this post should fully understand this disclaimer before considering invading my privacy, lest they wish to get to know my lawyer more personally.]

Posted 6 years ago # Quote
Huey

Ah ok now the post makes sense XD
i thought the guy above was quoting from the actually story
instead it was just his thoughts

Posted 6 years ago # Quote

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