Sankaku Complex Forums » Anime

1. 

   sickamoar
   

   Ohai guys, just thought I would drop by with this leaked video provided by wikileaks.
   

   http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/04/05/1648251/Wikileaks-Releases-Video-of-Journalist-Killings?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29

   It shows a gunship firing anti-tank rounds into civilians. Killing them all including two reuters journalists. A van then passes by in and tries to rescue the one guy writhing in agony on the floor. Which then gets blown to pieces (a child was also present in the van).

   Later on in the video the chopper fires 3 hellfire missiles into a building they believe to have terrorists in. Without monitoring before hand. This building had two families in it. You'll also note there is a civilian walking past the building who has clearly no intention of entering the building. They still shot the missile, and he gets blown to pieces too.

   I'll also clarify a few things in advance:

   -There was no rpg, this was was a long lens camera. They talk about an RPG round, this is most likely the camera satchel.

   -The reuters journalist had one armed escort. It was entirely legal to have an AK-47 at the time.

   -No we don't know the context of the situation ~(there could have been a bombing a week before, so the forces may have been on edge). I'm willing to accept that the first engagement could have been mistaken identity. I dislike it. But it's unavoidable. However shooting 2 people clearly only showing intention of rescuing wounded in my eyes is unforgivable.

   -Under the freedom of information act this video should have been released when requested by reuters. It was not. It had to be leaked and even then the CIA arrested a wiki leaks employee.

   The armed forces are meant to be trained to avoid shit like this. Saying things like "hurr it's war this shit happens collateral damage" is unacceptable. This to an extent a limited extent is murder. If you can't handle it then get out of the country your meant to be saving.

   What pisses me off the most about this is the US government covers things up like this. Instead of learning from it, they hide it. Then it has the nerve to say it's doing the people of Iraq a world of good because loldemocracy. When the US was the country who instilled that very same dictator they forcefully removed.

   Personally I don't blame the gunner THAT much. To me, from the way he speaks he seemed a bit trigger happy. My main concern is with the government and higher ups in the military. For the way they handled such a situation, and with the friendly fire America is renowned for makes me wonder how many more times this has happened. Not to say the UK has a completely clean slate...It's just as bad.

   This is Vietnam 2.0 and will end in the exact same way.

   TL;DR
   US military murders civilians and covers it up, I dislike this.

   tingle said:
   Russia, they are almost as powerful as the US but don't have the pesky "morals" holding back their cruelty.

   Sorry Tingle, a bit out of context but just as I read that I had to make this thread.

   

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   Posted 5 years ago #
2. 

   Mika the Banned
   

   WTF?

   And lolimore why did you make another account?

   Posted 5 years ago #
3. 

   sickamoar
   

   Mikage-sama said:
   WTF?

   And lolimore why did you make another account?

   Because I reformatted my drive(used ranomised password + browser pass save) and Lens isn't online at the moment.

   Posted 5 years ago #
4. 

   Vicious
   

   I more Pissed off at the horrible media coverage of it.
   they don't mention thats it's a city in baghdad
   people walking around in their own city, not a warzone

   instead they say welllll....there was some people spotted half a mile from here
   Cnn's intro to the Story was Military Mistake
   then halfway through the "reporting" they renamed it Attack on ARMED FIGHTERS

   They don't Mention the kids in the Van
   the retired general they had on called the van a weapon of war

   I can't stay mad when mistakes are made. You admit it's a mistake and progress from it. But when you Outright LIE when you COVER up Murder as just a part of war.

   Then it's unforgivable, then you're purposely intently spreading propaganda. and seriously who are you trying to fool?
   Not fooling us, Not fooling them? so they're covering their own ass in the most cowardly way possible, and tarnishing our country.

   Posted 5 years ago #
5. 

   GANTZ Playboy!
   

   Oh goody...shame I don't have video of POL POT slaughtering people or Saddam Hussein dropping innocent people (Political Prisoners?) into a plastic shredder - just to scare the shit out of the people forced to watch.

   YEAH! It's True it was a several years ago on ABC - Diane Sawyer did a piece on some people that witnessed it.

   Yeah...Countries are evil and kill civilians sometimes what of it? I just cheer when the radicals & socialist commies bite it- it's just the kinda guy I am (Pick a Side people! or become part of the landscape).

   Posted 5 years ago #
6. 

   sickamoar
   

   Gantz_Playboy said:
   Oh goody...shame I don't have video of POL POT slaughtering people or Saddam Hussein dropping innocent people (Political Prisoners?) into a plastic shredder - just to scare the shit out of the people forced to watch.

   YEAH! It's True it was a several years ago on ABC - Diane Sawyer did a piece on some people that witnessed it.

   Yeah...Countries are evil and kill civilians sometimes what of it? I just cheer when the radicals & socialist commies bite it- it's just the kinda guy I am (Pick a Side people! or become part of the landscape).

   When someone shoots your unarmed wounded Family/Friend in the US of A from a gunship I bet your stance will not be so passive.

   Soldiers are regularly praised as heroes. This is not the act of a hero.

   

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   Posted 5 years ago #
7. 

   Vicious
   

   Gantz_Playboy said:

   Yeah...Countries are evil and kill civilians sometimes what of it?

   As long as you admit you're evil, i dont give a fuck, you choose to side with evil.
   For all the Saddam Husseins, Hitlers, evil dictators.
   well Gantz_playboy is just like them.

   But guess who's not like you? Everybody else.

   Posted 5 years ago #
8. 

   Mika the Banned
   

   Vicious said:

   As long as you admit you're evil, i dont give a fuck, you choose to side with evil.
   For all the Saddam Husseins, Hitlers, evil dictators.
   well Gantz_playboy is just like them.

   But guess who's not like you? Everybody else.

   ^This

   Posted 5 years ago #
9. 

   SaruDa
   

   What used to piss me off is how the news reports would always be like '450 estimated Iraqi casualties. BUT 10 AMERICANS DIED!!!!!!!!!!111111'. Like, what? And they don't even bother to tell us if the dead Iraqis were all insurgents or civilians? Apparently Dr. Seuss was wrong. A person's not a person no matter how small.

   Posted 5 years ago #
10. 

    GANTZ Playboy!
    

    Vicious said:

    As long as you admit you're evil, i dont give a fuck, you choose to side with evil.
    For all the Saddam Husseins, Hitlers, evil dictators.
    well Gantz_playboy is just like them.

    But guess who's not like you? Everybody else.

    #1 Evil is a relative term and how Evil I am is between ME and my God...and the hookers & commies buried in my backyard so there!

    

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    Posted 5 years ago #
11. 

    桂 言葉 死
    

    Ok, I knew this was going to be posted sooner or later...

    Here is what I placed as a comment on CNET page last night, but here it is via copia/paste:

    ======

    Conflict and combat are surreal events that when experienced will never be fully understood by many - UNLESS - it was fully experienced - "IN PERSON" - with - "BOOTS ON THE GROUND" - by that individual who experienced it and NOT by anyone just seated in front of the telly watching it or a YouTube feature. ~

    From what I can tell, from repeated viewing of this video, is that my conclusion sides with the Apache pilots and crew. ~ REASON?

    From what I SAW and NOT using any of the added - "influences" - that appeared on screen:

    1. A large gathering of people was present.
    2. There were weapons present within that group of people.
    3. The RPG in question was shouldered, directed towards the Helicopter from a corner position, and that the individual actually - followed the helicopter - until it lost its sight of it due to the building obscuring it.
    4. The journalists took a gamble (with their lives) to be immersed within a crowd, therefore they were - not recognised - as being different from an insurgent, civilian, or reporter. ~ imo ~ the journalists must have known the chances they took by doing that.

    The VAN issue:

    It was unclear who was who and who belonged to what side (to include) who was in that vehicle, because it was - not known - until (after) the incident.

    AGAIN, the decision of the Apache crew was justified.

    Now imagine this (in another perspective/context): Imagine a police officer confronted with the same thing while on duty. ~ A group is noticed, weapons are said to be in the group, and a long type weapon being shouldered onto a firing position/stance, while said officer was approaching, and that officer sees/notices that individual (leading/following) his movements.

    How would that look to that officer? - and how would anyone react in that type of situation? - I believe he would have his hand on his weapon, preparing to fire as well, while taking cover.

    The article ~

    The article states allot of words as - "seems to show" - "appeared to be unarmed" - "Some reports have said" and including - "It's unclear whether the dead Iraqi men were insurgents or law-abiding citizens who were armed." ~ what does that tell you?

    When a soldier faces a situation as this, many things can happen in an instant, and decisions are to be made quickly in order to protect the lives of the soldiers approaching the area while in a mission.

    If they didn't do that job, then that would be - one more - family without a son/daughter coming home, and another death that the public will see as useless.

    This was followed up by this statement made by someone else (which is not the entire statement) as I disagreed with the second half of it:

    Weapons were found and photographed among the bodies (see my comment above for a link to the US military report).

    The person seen at the corner of the building was a reporter with a camera.

    The camera was recovered and the pictures it contained included in the report.

    Behind the reporter at that stage was a man armed with an RPG.

    It was certainly possible that the pilots identiifed an RPG, then lost sight of it, and assumed the man appearing around the corner had the RPG due to his stance.

    The Sauce:
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20001802-38.html
    =====

    Again, I WILL say this...

    One can speak about it and place judgement when watching a (partial) 17 minute video on YouTube.

    Unless YOU know better, have more concrete visuals and I also pose this question to you.

    What would YOU do when placed/faced in that kind of situation, with other factors present?

    Also remember, that you are ONLY seeing one gun-cam POV and not 2 (the other camera) as I am sure, was also running.

    I will hold my position regarding this incident, because having been in a similar position and situation, I can honestly tell you.

    It is allot different when your experiencing it first hand!

    Posted 5 years ago #
12. 

    Icy-nee-san
    

    I lol'd a bit at this thread, not sure why

    Posted 5 years ago #
13. 

    deadbeat
    

    WALL OF TEXT DOES 9999999999 DAMAGE!!

    Will read them later though...

    Personally, I don't blame the soldiers. Its a warzone, not a birthday party or a walk in the park so what do you expect? It does look like a RPG and they are hanging around with people who are carrying real AKs with the potential to harm the other US soldiers on the ground

    Besides, if its a real RPG, any delay and the entire million dollar attack heli with the pilot, the co-pilot and the gunner himself will be blown out of the sky. Not that tough a decision to shoot IMHO.

    As for the reporters, if you can't or won't take the heat, get the fuck out of the kitchen.

    Posted 5 years ago #
14. 

    Twintail Tsundere
    

    This is why I run Cold-Blooded Pro.

    But seriously, to reiterate what Deth said, those on the frontlines have to make split second decisions where people's lives are at stake. Real life doesn't have friend-or-foe identifiers on everyone. A camera with long lens can look like an RPG through thermal cameras. Many soldiers themselves die from friendly fire. Those reporters knew the risks.

    What's unacceptable though, is the government's cover up of this. Doing that only makes them look more guilty.

    Posted 5 years ago #
15. 

    sickamoar
    

    Are you seriously telling me that anyone could hit a flying gunship with an RPG?
    It's hard enough to hit a tank with one, let alone a mobile circling apache. Even with that in mind, the apache could have flown out of range easily.

    There's also the issue of the gunman clearly wanting to shoot shit. If you watch the video he's begging for a guy crawling on the ground to pick up a weapon. For a guy aiming an RPG at a helicopter the rest of the group looked pretty damn fucking chill to me.

    No one was in any form of immediate danger. At all.

    "It was unclear who was who and who belonged to what side (to include) who was in that vehicle, because it was - not known - until (after) the incident."
    So you shoot it? Honestly? People who clearly had no weapons. Who jumped out went straight to the guy crawling on the floor and brought him straight back to the van, to then be fired at. With no ground troops nearby. The troops were at least 8 minutes away.

    Also if the vehicle was unknown at the time. Why the fuck was it automatically reported as "insurgent armed vehicle" as soon as it stopped. With the least offence intended deth, the US has a much higher friendly fire rate than other countries. I associate that by the way they put guns in the hands of kids who don't too well in highschool and don't want to be poor. Then stick them on the front lines. You listen to that dialogue, as the gunner swears over the com "c'mon let me shoot!" "c'mon pick up that gun so I can shoot you again". Then tell me that these soldiers don't need better training and the government should have covered up the video.

    Posted 5 years ago #
16. 

    Mika the Banned
    

    Icy-nee-san said:
    I lol'd a bit at this thread, not sure why

    Cuz you are canadian and a bit of ass :>

    Posted 5 years ago #
17. 

    sickamoar
    

    deadbeat said:
    Personally, I don't blame the soldiers. Its a warzone, not a birthday party or a walk in the park so what do you expect? It does look like a RPG and they are hanging around with people who are carrying real AKs with the potential to harm the other US soldiers on the ground

    sickamoar said:

    -The reuters journalist had one armed escort. It was entirely legal to have an AK-47 at the time.

    This was blatantly a communication fuck up by the military, they didn't know what the fuck was going on. So they resorted to firing, just in case. If that's how you save a country, then I doubt that country wants to be saved by you.

    Also at the time, it was not a designated war zone. These were people walking about their city.

    Again watch the video. This was two separate engagements. There was plenty of time to think. I can get my head around the first engagement but not the second.

    Posted 5 years ago #
18. 

    Reizo
    

    Palmtop Tiger said:
    This is why I run Cold-Blooded Pro.

    ^This.

    Also "All's fair in love and war."

    Posted 5 years ago #
19. 

    Mika the Banned
    

    Reizo said:

    ^This.

    Also "All's fair in love and war."

    If it was a war against the country yes but its against a group if individuals.

    Posted 5 years ago #
20. 

    deadbeat
    

    sickamoar said:

    This was blatantly a communication fuck up by the military, they didn't know what the fuck was going on. So they resorted to firing, just in case. If that's how you save a country, then I doubt that country wants to be saved by you.

    Also at the time, it was not a designated war zone. These were people walking about their city.

    Again watch the video. This was two separate engagements. There was plenty of time to think. I can get my head around the first engagement but not the second.

    Are you ever a soldier? You just reminds me of those bleeding hearts liberal who thinks the same stuff applies on a warzone as it does in downtown New Jersey aka a civilian area. It doesnt. You shoot at people who have no qualms shooting at you. Thats what you do, especially when they actually DO have a history of shooting/killing your buddies

    Posted 5 years ago #

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