I usually don't expect responses so soon. Just to let you too know that this is my last response. I will apologize for any confusion and misunderstandings but my point will still stand rather you will agree to me or not. My only wish is TO READ THE WHOLE THING FIRST!
loli in a box said:
To be honest, Kanaris, this is just tiring. There is nothing in for me.
It seems like you don't want to dicuss something, but just try to force your opinions on me:
What's so tiring about me posting my first response to you? Expressing my opinions in a critical light does not mean I'm forcing my opinions on you. If I made it out that way, I apologize. I can't stop anybody from being who they are. But it doesn't mean I shouldn't have my say in it. I did not tell you to stop loving your waifu. What I'm saying is why make it out like 3D women can't share love to you AS WELL, why devote your life to that waifu and equate it to natural love between two real people and not simple infatuation love?
That's exactly what I said. CAN is not an absolutizing term.
While you and companions conclude baselessly: preference of 2D -> social disorder etc
Again, stop generalizing.
I have not made the assumption that liking the 2D world more is a disorder. I mean it as using the 2D world as an escapism on real life and staying content with it not doing anything to use it as a drive to help your reality. I CAN love alcohol because I don't like the job that I work at. Does that mean I should drink myself silly instead of finding a career that's right for me?
Aren't you completely missing the point?
Showing their imagination to whom? For what? Why express? I don't even intend to express it to others.
I indulge in the 2D for my own personal happiess.
Then you are missing my point. Let me give you an example. There was once a dude who was orphaned and was on his own two feet. Even worse he was blind since age six due to an illness. He'd happen to get into music as an escapism because it makes him happy. He got more into music, particularly in soul music and the blues. Little did the future hold that he would become Ray Charles, one of the most respected artist in the industry. Say what you will about him and my example but it doesn't disprove that he used his escapism to improve his life. If your using it just to indulge yourself and not using it to improve what you have about yourself not to gain success and riches but using the 2D world as a drive to make your 3D world seem more beneficial to you, Then using the 2D world as an easy way out is only cheating yourself. I can't do anything about it. Only to express my concerns and say to them that there's something out there for them, it just takes time to achieve it.
Who are you that you even dare to decide if someone has done something with his life?
That's something an individual decides for himself. Period.
Though you are free to have your own opinion.
Excuse me, since when you had the authority to assume I'm deciding for anybody. I can't do anything about the choices they made in their lives. Only to express my thoughts on how their choices affect them. I could be wrong, but it doesn't stop me from saying it. And it's not deciding for or forcing opinions on anybody. It's called telling you how I feel. You can ignore what I said, but it's not going to shut me up and not say something about it every once in a while or at least once. The only time you should say that I'm deciding for anyone or force my opinions on anyone, is when I do it aggressively to the point that I say "do this because it's the right thing to do". I'm not telling anybody to "do the right thing". I'm telling people that using a shortcut or the easy way out won't truly solve anything. I barely respond like this because I must understand everyone's view point and situation. But there will come a time when I speak my thoughts on something even if it's something that I don't agree with and might offend people. I could be bitching everyday that it's wrong for people to be lolicons, that it's wrong for Schrobby to be a socialist, that it's wrong for Gantz to watch FOX news, But I don't. Because I don't see why I should decide what's right and wrong for everybody. Deciding what's right or wrong is a personal choice, nobody should decide for them. But it's not a reason why I can't say anything about it. If I am free to have my own opinion, Then let me speak it.
Because I'm just saying that staying content with an escapism and using it to your advantage won't solve anything. Like I said I could be wrong, but it doesn't stop me from saying something in disagreement. I'm not telling anyone how to live their lives. Only saying that you can do something with your situation and use it to your advantage. You can ignore me IT'S YOUR CHOICE. But I'm also making the choice to say something about it. I'm not forcing you to do anything
, Only telling you how I fell about it.
Well, you know what I want to say.
You use this phrase way too much. And they really were just a bunch of dreamers besides the media they used to express themselves. The fact that they created their own world, and liked living in it, was what I wanted to compare.
Because I have to repeat myself to you. It's the fact that they were dreamers and use that dreaming to their advantage makes the big difference here. People who made an era of art is not really comparable to someone who is just trying to get the next posters, figures and Dakimakuras, of their favorite anime character. And if it is comparable, the big difference is that they've done something to their advantage.
That's exactly what you are doing.
No, telling someone like "you suck at life, do something else cause it's what's best for you" Is me telling you to be "better". Me implying that there is something that you can use to your advantage is not forcing anything to
anybody. I'm not telling you to "do it". I'm saying "You can do it, nothing should stop you" Should I reevaluate my context of my post so you can understand it better.
I apologize. Let me reevaluate in context (But let me remind you, I'm not telling you to be better or decide, Even an idiot knows that doing nothing to improve yourself won't get you to be something better). What I mean by that is sitting on your ass and imagining yourself that you have this better life and not doing something to have this better life is not good reasoning. If you want to have a better life, what's stopping you from doing it (Like I said, it's not limited to success and riches and finding a medium to express yourself.) Sure, everyone can dream and imagine. I do it all the time. But dreaming an imagining AND DOING JUST THAT won't get me nowhere. There's a thing called pursuing your dreams. I don't feel content on dreaming for the rest of my life. I want to do something about it and use it to my advantage. So I'll tell you this (And I'm being careful with my context) I can't tell you how to live life (If I'm doing it, I apologize. Merely suggesting something IS NOT forcing anybody anything.) I'm just asking, why feel hopeless about yourself and being content in your indulgence and just that because you're not satisfied with what you got, instead of doing something that could get you where you want to be in your life. I'M NOT FORCING YOU TO DO ANYTHING. I am only asking you.
Exactly, it's the reality of the respective individual. Not yours. Everybody creates his own reality.
It's changed everytime you look at it from a different angle. It's that simple. There is no consistent "true" reality.
Also, found a nice quote: "You can not use your own measurements and definition of happiness for everybody."
I can't tell you to be happy or to find happiness. What I'm saying there shouldn't be an easy way to be happy and a shortcut cut to find happiness. If you are happy with you waifu, that's fine with me. What I'm saying is if your content WITH JUST THAT AND NOTHING MORE. Well to me, that's just a shortcut.
I think you misunderstood what it means to be an atheist.
It means that you deny the existance of god(s). Nothing more.
The question if religion is beneficial to mankind is not it's concern.
Not to mention that this was completely irrelevant to our topic.
You misunderstood the entire argument. If that's your view on the matter, then you need to see more topics and arguments on atheism. I'm implying to the argument made by theists that believing in a god helps them, it makes them happy. and has done them a lot of good. So for that case, atheist shouldn't be critical of religion and theism and let everybody believe what they believe with nobody giving their disagreement about that. If atheists aren't impressed by that argument, Why should I be impressed by your argument that truly believing that your waifu is your one and only helps you, it makes you happy. And had done you a lot of good. So for that case, I shouldn't be critical of you and your choice of love and let you believe what you believe without giving their disagreement about it.
Wrong. Go read it up in a dictionary or something.
What I mean by love, I'm implying the love between two people which you compare your situation to. I know people who do the waifu thing aren't comparing their situations to the love of someone and their car. I love my computer because of what it does for me, Does that mean I should marry it?
What kind of question is that? I created her in my mind, so I would obviously know what I personally thought of.
Pardon my discrimination but who is your waifu? If she is just someone you made up, Then that's having an imaginary friend (imaginary wife to be more precise). I can't judge you for it. But hat's all what it is.
Nobody loves something directly, but what you make of it yourself. What you love is what is shaped of certain inputs, may it be through a girl or media, in your mind. The moment I wished for it, her existence was established in my reality. I love a person. A person I created myself.
That's a limited view of love. Especially the love between two people, in which you are comparing an comprehending your love to. loves someONE directly because of what you make of it yourself. Love (and I'm speaking of the love between two people, in which you are comparing an you and your love to.) It's not just simply admiration. It's one willing to make sacrifices in order to make that one happy. And it has to be both ways. Her not doing the same only makes the love unilateral, not true love.
I will end it here. This post is probably pretty worthless for use in a real discussion. You gave me a emotional response and I in turn answered you very emotionally. I won't post again since it only eats up my time without gaining something.
The feeling is mutual.
So, am I the only one left representing this standpoint? I actually thought there were more of my kind here.
On to Night.
Congratulations for totally not understanding what I wanted to express. I said that he does only know his life, and cannot claim to know what is good and what works for everyone. Taking quotes out of context gets you nowhere.
I already knew what you made when you made that post. You are misunderstanding me when I'm saying is that there is no excuse for anyone to improve and take advantage their situation. Yes there are rod block put in place against them, but it shouldn't discourage any from trying. And if thing come unexpected, that's no reason to cow down and give up.
I shall just quote myself - you cannot use your own measurements for everybody.
Also, we can assume that you really do look down on all the people who do not fulfill your standards of living a 'productive' and 'fulfilled' life? This is sad.
Again I can't tell what's happy for people. But cheating yourself to be happy isn't going to help.
Well I'm not telling anyone to be "better".
Not this again.
It is a very complete view of human beings actually. There would be a lot less problems in the world if people weren't so full of themselves in general, thinking that they know everything and are something. Everybody is the protagonist of his own life, and that's that. I just wanted to call out on his view of the world and himself. I never meant that life is useless, but only that people should not think of themselves as too important.
And you accusing me of reading out of context. I said, just because lives end doesn't mean there shouldn't be life. Just because people will only know me for my deeds should not stop me from doing the deeds. My point is not forcing anybody to do/be/work for anything. I haven't anybody to be full of themselves. I'm implying that if you have potential, why should you waste it so frivolously. That's not a demand, it's a question.
You have to differ between those who really suffered deep emotional scars and went into reclusion - without necessarily going into 2D - and those who simply are anti-social, misanthropic, w/e and chose the 2D world. If it is the former you rant about, you could knock on their rooms and try to be Misaki. But it is not them I was talking about, I mainly focused on the latter.
Once again, you cannot decide for them. It is reckless enough to assume that all of them already think that life holds nothing for them - they may just enjoy it in a way that you do not understand.
Not everybody who prefers 2D has given up on life (maybe on reproduction though) and not everybody who has given up on life indulges in a fantasy world instead.
I know I can't decide for them. But letting people rot themselves and say nothing about it is pretty unreasonable. That's what's Japan is doing to hikikomori and that's not a good way to help. Like I said
there are plenty of reasons why people are hikikomori. It's the fact that they reserve to be less open about themselves is the issue.
Yes, I should not judge. But that does not keep me from expressing my concerns neither.
Now I shall rest the case, too.
And I'm fucking done too.
Why is meeting someone so important? When all you are likely to do at most is talk.
Why is not meeting someone so great? When all you are likely to do at the most is talk to yourself.
You know what, I give. Please! for the love of fuck don't make a response because I won't respond back. I've had it. You do whatever you like. And I will try my hardest to respond you. And would only discuss something like this to someone up close and personal. Don't bother to respond cause I'm not going to hang out in this thread any longer. Let's just act like this never happened.
Have a nice life!