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The Education Thread

  1. I have the biggest feeling of deja vu ever (like, from the last 2 hours) upon reading this thread.

    Allow me to quote uteki without the fancy quote.

    Yeah and it's a shame that people are also going to University just for the sake of it.

    I actually agree with going to University just for the sake of going to University. It does not actually teach you anything remarkable; it does not limit or define your careers.

    What the university is actually good for is to show that you are able to take a challenge on many levels: economic, bureaucratic, social, and whatever comes at you. I've found university to be utterly boring, frustrating, and not motivating at all.

    Yet, what pikka says is true:

    e got a job thanks to his degree as the other applicant didn't have one.

    The only reason I have managed to get the position I cover now is due to the fact that I have a degree.
    A degree in Japanese culture, history, literature, and language, allowed me to secure a position as a translator/localization QA analyst.
    Not because of the instruction, not because of what I had learned, but because the degree allowed me to obtain a visa easily.

    Quite frankly, considering how hard it is to pull through college or university, I would only recommend going if you have a goal, if you are motivated, if there's something this course will help you achieve.
    It's stressful, it's hard, and the desire to just drop and quit is sadly always present. More or less.

    At the same time, this is the same reason as to why I'm amazed at what some people manage to achieve. Tilly, for instance. There are some who always have very high scores, who do things on time, who seem to have things already figured out. I'm envious, truly.
    It's not just the scores; it's the capacity to deal with all the problems, all the hassles, and be successful at what you do.
    The course may not define what your career will be, but it's the first statement to say how well you managed during those years.
    Even if you later find yourself wanting to do something else, all the achievements you collected so far are not a waste. They're the basis of what you're capable of, a reference for what you'll be able to do later.

    Tilly, there are so many in this world who haven't managed to do half of what you've done. You should be proud of what you became, and be glad that you're finding out more about your true desires. Once you clear the first stages, you'll have proof that you are capable of doing anything you truly desire.
    It may not be your vocation, it may not be what you were born for, but you have nothing to be ashamed of. You're so young, too!

    When I was your age, I was a disgusting blob who didn't have a clue about life. I hadn't achieved anything. I wish I had your strength, your force of will, instead of just dropping out and wasting years doing nothing.

    Edit: just wanted to say I forgot what point I was trying to make.

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
  2. Vegio said:

    I actually agree with going to University just for the sake of going to University. It does not actually teach you anything remarkable; it does not limit or define your careers.

    What the university is actually good for is to show that you are able to take a challenge on many levels: economic, bureaucratic, social, and whatever comes at you. I've found university to be utterly boring, frustrating, and not motivating at all.

    Bear in mind that not everyone lives in a country where university is free, and the "everyone should go to uni!" culture that exists in certain places means that a lot of people who go will end up on career paths where the degree they get (if they actually graduate) won't make up for their debt or the time that they didn't spend working.

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
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    Vegio said:

    I actually agree with going to University just for the sake of going to University.

    But it means it's full of the same kids that, god, I don't even know why they're there, they don't seem to have any awareness for themselves or others around them and do not care at all for at least not being a distraction to others, let alone actually paying attention. It's so disappointing because you think it's going to be different to high school, but it's still too similar. Do they even think for themselves? I seriously wonder about this.

    It's so annoying just thinking about it. But I can't see how making having a degree a standard does anything but waste resources.

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
  4. Wastes resources and devalues degrees! What are they worth when everyone has one?

    But I suspect that a large part of the reason why politicians want everyone to go to uni is to keep unemployment figures down. Most of these kids wouldn't have a job if they weren't in uni, and that would look really bad. They'd be on welfare too, and the government might have to spend more on that than they would on tuition.

    The only way to avoid the kids who don't know what the fuck they're doing in uni is to go to an elite one. Even there, there'll be a few idiots, but at least those idiots will be very rich and exploitable.

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
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    That's a good point about the figures... But I'm not sure that here having these kids in Uni makes much of a difference. Students here also receive welfare while studying, which is the same as what they pay kids who aren't studying anyway (job seeking), and since Uni here is paid for by the government in a majority of cases, I can't imagine that whatever they get back from the debt and interest from whoever can find a job after graduating that pays over $50,000 a year, would make up the difference. It might, but unless I'm missing something it doesn't seem like they're saving much money.

    There's not much choice here, and even less choice given what I'm studying.

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
  6. People who went to uni earn 20% more on average. What they got their degree in is irrelevant.
    I'm really fortunate that I knew what I wanted to study and it was easy to get in.

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
  7. I just finished my Academic plan for the next year or so. It will be mainly Science and Math classes. I am still wondering on what graduate university I want to go to.

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
  8. Vegio said:

    Though what I was saying, the point was that students shouldn't be encouraged to rush into university as soon as they are 18. Yes a single degree can help you get a job but University is generally a once in a life chance - especially in England.

    If you realise a dream when you are 21, then it's a little bit too late to go back unless you plan on saving £56,000 just for you to enter into uni again, it would be a waste of money and time.
    People should think carefully in what they actually desire and think realistically about the career aspects.

    People are always advised to go through clearing if they didn't get the result or conditional offers, and going through clearing could mean choosing a different subject which they may not like or be unable to do anything with it. E.g Law LLB will directly help your law career whereas Law BA will not yet they come at the same price.

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
  9. I believe there should be some reform when it comes to university degrees and curriculum and wider options for postsecondary besides the usual college/university route.

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
  10. AffuuCat said:

    In Britain (and I think it's the same in most European countries), governments publish statistics on how many young people (usually 18-25) are unemployed. It would look really bad if 50% of young people were out of work. But if you shove most of them into university, you can get that figure down to 20% or 30%

    The cost of welfare vs university will differ from country to country, but I believe welfare is more expensive here, and I imagine that's the case in the US as well (where they barely seem to give their college students any assistance at all).

    pilu said:

    People who went to uni earn 20% more on average. What they got their degree in is irrelevant.

    Consider how stupid the people who didn't manage to get into uni must be. Earning more than them can't be very difficult.

    And given that attending university implies higher social class and more ambitious parents, I imagine those people would be earning more money even if everyone (or no-one) went to uni.

    I'd be really interested in seeing data (controlled for high school academic record and families' economic status) on how much more people who attended only the lower ranking universities earned compared to people who didn't go at all.

    Bear in mind also that there isn't just debt from the 3/4 years at uni; there's also potential loss of earnings (I say "potential" because it's hard to say how many of them would have managed to get a job).

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
  11. doctorkhanblog said:
    I believe there should be some reform when it comes to university degrees and curriculum and wider options for postsecondary besides the usual college/university route.

    There is Apprenticeships.

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
  12. uteki said:

    There is Apprenticeships.

    That's one option to look at. I am also thinking that there should be a better track system for students with clear career paths and students who are there just for the general studies.

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
  13. University is a waste of time imo unless you are trying to become a doctor or laywer, or some other profession that requires a university degree. Going to university to be enlightened is one of the dumbest reasons to go to university for because you can use the Internet to be enlightened.

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
  14. pinkturtlefart said:
    I have been extremely fortunate. I have studied mechanical engineering for 4 years with the support of ~$20,000 in scholarships per year. I am debt free. I have focused all of my energy on studying and schoolwork. I have a high GPA and multiple job prospects, but I just realized that I'm not sure that I want to be an engineer. I may have wasted 22 years of my life following someone else's dream.

    My degree will be worth quite a bit, and I don't think I will have any trouble finding employment, but my pride is constantly being trampled by self-taught individuals who definitely are better engineers than myself.

    I'm really good at school. If anyone wants HW help...

    You definitely proved you're one of the smartest people here by pulling that off.

    Since you managed to stay debt free you could become a financial aid adviser or since you like being in academia you could become a professor or a teacher.

    It's doesn't pay as much as engineering but it's rewarding.

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
  15. uteki said:

    Though what I was saying, the point was that students shouldn't be encouraged to rush into university as soon as they are 18. Yes a single degree can help you get a job but University is generally a once in a life chance - especially in England.

    Yes, you are right.
    What I mean is, going to university does not define your life. It's important for your future careers to have a piece of paper to certify that you are capable, but at the same time it's extremely hard to get through all those years.
    Personal motivation is necessary, and unless you have something you want to achieve beyond education, don't go there! I'm talking to you, average person who doesn't like to study.

    If you realise a dream when you are 21...

    Gods, I wish :(

    kudichan said:

    In Britain (and I think it's the same in most European countries), governments publish statistics on how many young people (usually 18-25) are unemployed. It would look really bad if 50% of young people were out of work. But if you shove most of them into university, you can get that figure down to 20% or 30%

    In Italy, university originally lasted for 5 years minimum.
    Later, since almost nobody actually cleared those years, they split the 5 in 3 of bachelor + 2 of specialization, in order to look better... I guess.
    Figures went up, more people were able to clear the 3 years, and everybody was happy about the statistics.
    At the same time, most professions would require 3+2 of specialization, because the first 3 years are almost useless.

    Also, in order to fill the space left by the division, they had to introduce many exams that were not consistent with your main study career, forcing you to go through unnecessary knowledge for no good reasons.

    I've always thought that the literature professor we had was a cool dude, bug gods be good, why on earth would I need to study Italian literature when I'm trying to graduate in Japanese?

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
  16. I'm having a hard time deciding what to post, and how to divide my opinion/ideas, as this topic is of particular interest to me, and don't want to post a gigantic single post. So lets see.

    I attended Uni far longer than I should've, in the sense that I changed my major several times, and spent some 10 years in school (with breaks and dropping out years), racked up enough class credits for a Bacherlor's degree, but had none. In the end it worked out as I did get 3 Associate's degrees, and they opened the door for my current career (special education).

    I could've entered this profession earlier in life without a degree, as most positions only require a high school diploma and maybe some college experience. But having a degree or any kind has put me ahead of other candidates, and I get paid more than others with more seniority.

    At present I'm taking online classes to finish a Bachelor's Degree in General Studies, which is a degree on nothing, good for people like me that took classes in everything but that wouldn't fit in any one particular degree. Also a Minor in Psychology, as I like it and going for it wouldn't have taken me longer to finish the Bachelor's.

    The reason for me to take this classes and get the degree is simply to open other doors within my career, or to change paths later on if I so choose to. A degree in anything does open certain doors, that's just the way our society and economy is built, and I can play along to benefit from the system, or try to be cool and not going a long, and struggle along the way.

    That is not to say that everyone should go to Uni and get a degree, or that with no degree you'll be a poor shitbag all your life. There are many professions and trades that pay really well and you can start off with an apprenticeship or just by trying it yourself. I've met janitors, mechanics, tacqueros (taco makers) and other such, who love their jobs and live a very comfortable life, and their job earns them a nice buck. However I haven't found any such path that I would be happy with, so for me Uni and a degree would be the best choice.

    Lately I've been considering the possibility of switching careers and break into the tech field, as a programmer. For this there are many 12 week boot camps in san francisco and the bay area, many of which want minorities (as in, anything other than white dude) to join in, and I've gotten good responses and encouragement from people in the field. But I'm still reading about it and learning.

    But even if that field would pay me twice as much (or more) as I would ever make if I stayed in education, I really enjoy my field. So I'm also considering my choices after finishing my degree, be it to get certified and become a teacher, or go for a career as a speech or occupational therapist. So I've been researching on the requirements of different US states to get my teacher's license and/or Master's degrees that would help me on either paths.

    Due to some conversations I had with my dad and with a member, I've also been thinking lately on what I'd like to do for retirement/if I simply didn't have to work/if I could follow my path if money wasn't an issue. I'd like to have a small patch of land and grow mushrooms and make honey.

    I don't want to work all my life, so regardless of which path I'll take I'll make it so that I can retire in my mid 40s and spend time with my bees, my fungi, my dog and cat, and traveling with my wife.

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
  17. And another thread where I know shit.
    I don't even know what a graduation I have, because the term " Realschulabschluss" does not exists in the anglo-saxon education system.
    My guess, the German equivalent of GCSE or ISCED level 2, so I'm not allowed to visit a university until I get my Abitur or a UAS certificate.
    So after my schooldays and after 3.5 years I made my journeyman's certificate using the in Germay common dual education system .

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
  18. kudichan said:

    What changes need to be made to our education systems (this will obviously differ depending on the poster's nationality)

    This

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
  19. dirtypair said:
    And another thread where I know shit.
    I don't even know what a graduation I have, because the term " Realschulabschluss" does not exists in the anglo-saxon education system.
    My guess, the German equivalent of GCSE or ISCED level 2, so I'm not allowed to visit a university until I get my Abitur or a UAS certificate.
    So after my schooldays and after 3.5 years I made my journeyman's certificate using the in Germay common dual education system .

    Can people in Germany still reinvent themselves at any point in their lives like they can in the US.

    This freedom BTW is probably the most redeeming quality of the US system.

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote
  20. Ofc we can but it's a lot harder than in the US.
    E.g.: Bank Job( easy stuff counter etc.) US-> 2 week training/ Ger-> 3 years vocational training
    Or you start as a lateral entrant and climb the career ladder the hard way like me.

    Posted 1 year ago # Quote

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