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nashi said:
That's not speaker's will in the first place, you asshole.
See below.
maid said:
your attitude is not welcome in here.
Sankaku Complex Forums » Japan
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Posted 1 year ago #
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aneko said:
See below.
See all. It doesn't look like your will for that.
Posted 1 year ago # -
It is widely said that one should not feed the trolls, but who can resist this? Let's see how can you react to some reason.
nashi said:
Not really. It seems like you excerpted from something standard text for business use, and tweaked some parts of it. But in this case it sounds overformal because you don't need to be a sales rep.You flatter me. But I am sorry to tell you that I did not copy that from any standard text. As I mentioned before, the position of the writer is very low compared to that of the reader, and if he wants to be taken seriously, he should use the same kind of formalism as a business representative would.
Your text is -mostly- understandable from a grammar point of view: it's about 80% correct, just as your English. It passes its point across, but really shows your lack of knowledge of all the nuances of the proper use of a language, which ultimately presents you as an undereducated person. In Japanese culture, where the education of a person is very highly regarded, writing like you do is a surefire way to get yourself ignored.
nashi said:
It's not incorrect but mere paraphrase.Yes, it is incorrect. You wrote
ただ、あなたの芸術的才能に惚れ込んでいる事を伝えたかったのです。
As a translation for "I just wanted to say how much i love your artistic ability"
A correct translation, using the exact words you want to use would go like:
あなたの芸術的才能に惚れ込んでいるということを伝えたかっただけです。nashi said:
If this were not the business use there aren't any problems.If you didn't care at all about getting a reply, there wouldn't be any problems.
nashi said:
It sounds just like a sales rep.You do realize why salespeople use formal language, don't you? hint: it's because that's the best way to not get completely ignored when you go around soliciting while offering something nothing in return.
nashi said:
There are no such term for it.
Taking account of speaker's well, I can consider quite good for this case.Me fail English? That's unpossible? (I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say here)
nashi said:
出来れば doesn't sound so much classic but modest. Free translation.Free translation, by google?
With "classic translation", I did not mean that your translation had a classic feeling to it. I meant that it is quite normal and common (therefore classic) for people with a poor knowledge of Japanese to make mistakes like these. Don't worry, I most likely made similar mistakes myself when I was at your level.
The mistake I pointed in your translation is not a cultural one, but a grammatical one. 出来れば is mostly used in the first person, as in "出来ればやります". It may be used in the third person, but in this situation, it is much more advisable to use a clearly unambiguous third person form, such as "もし宜しければ", or "もし良かったら".nashi said:
Can't see any problem.-that- is your main problem. You won't be able to learn Japanese unless you start being critical and look for your own mistakes.
nashi said:
Then just replace it to "Am looking forward to" or something like that.Hopefully not by saying "前向きに見ている" (literally looking with your eyes at your forward direction).
The correct usage of 期待しているところです as "looking forward to" would be likeこのゲームの音楽にすごく期待しているところです, meaning "I'm really looking forward to the music in this game", but more literally "I am expecting a lot from the music of this game".
You see, in English, "look forward to" and "expect something from" can have the same or different meanings, depending on the context. In Japanese, 期待する means "to expect something from", and therefore indicates an expectation to which the reader can simply say "why am I expected to do this again?"
nashi said:
That's not speaker's will in the first place, you asshole.I assume you will get very far in life by asking people for things and not even thank them. But you're right. The original message did not include thanks, so a dictionary translation of the message would not include it either.
I recommend you work a little bit on your attitude though. Remember, always fight with arguments, not with insults.
nashi said:
It's not an essay but just another message.I think this is the most important part of what I want to say. The original message writer wants to have somebody dedicate a lot of time (several hours) to do something for him, while expecting nothing in result. When you're asking for somebody else's time, the very minimum you should do is dedicate a little bit of your own time to properly making your request.
Rounding it up for the original message writer: if you want a direct word-by-word translation of your message, with the words reorganized into something that vaguely resembles Japanese, use nashi's translation. If you don't care for a word-by-word translation of your request, but want to have a chance of getting your request met, then you could use my translation.
nashi said:
Yeah have a nice try to you.Have a nice... try?
Posted 1 year ago # -
maid said:
When you're asking for somebody else's time, the very minimum you should do is dedicate a little bit of your own time to properly making your request.Quoting because it's worth repeating.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Lets hope Trimead gets a reply from him. Somehow I got this urge to see how that artist reply him.
Posted 1 year ago # -
maid since you would go as far as to say that, just try to translate Trimead's request into japanese without my reference before your talk back to me. I'll give here your due when you do it.
Posted 1 year ago # -
nashi said:
maid since you would go as far as to say that, just try to translate Trimead's request into japanese without my reference before your talk back to me. I'll give here your due when you do it.Knock yourself out
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/forums/topic.php?id=10805&page=26#post-879843
Posted 1 year ago # -
maid said:
Knock yourself out
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/forums/topic.php?id=10805&page=26#post-879843
Nah, Stop clowning around.
Posted 1 year ago # -
What was seemingly an innocent letter turned out to be the result of an epic battle of cultural mannerisms between two individuals.
Posted 1 year ago # -
inuoek said:
What was seemingly an innocent letter turned out to be the result of an epic battle of cultural mannerisms between two individuals.Im on the sidebench with my popcorn.
Posted 1 year ago # -
nashi said:
Nah, Stop clowning around.
Just a miserable attempt at a cliffhanger?
And to think I was expecting something interesting from you :-(Posted 1 year ago # -
I asked a friend from work to give me some comments from a native point of view. On a scale of 1 to 100, his comments go like this:
Vegio's translation: 60. It gets its point across, but looks too much as if it had been translated by google translate, or another automatic service.
nashi's translation: 40. Very rude. Especially the ただ part. He said it has a very patronizing tone, and is the least likely to get a serious reply.
My translation: 80. It looks as if it had been written by a 16 year old. It is grammatically correct, but quite inconsistent in its usage of the polite forms.
The corrected version of my translation goes like this:
〇〇様
突然のメールで失礼致します。Alexと申します。
いつも〇〇様のイラストを拝見させて頂いております。
特に〇〇様の鏡音リンのイラストがとても好きです。質問なのですが、〇〇様はリクエストを受付されていらっしゃいますでしょうか。
もし宜しければ、ウェディングドレス姿の鏡音リンのイラスト描いて頂けないでしょうか
〇〇様なら、素敵なイラストになると思います。
ご検討の程、宜しくお願い致します。
それでは、失礼致します。
(Very direct) translation:
Mr. 〇〇
Please excuse me for (this) unexpected email. My name is Alex.
I always look at Mr. 〇〇's illustrations.
Especially, I like 〇〇's illustrations of Kagamine Rin.I would like to ask you a question: Do you take requests?
If it is okay with you, could I have you draw a picture of Kagamine Rin in a wedding dress?
Since it's Mr. 〇〇, I am very sure it would come out very well.
Thank you very much for your consideration in this matter.
With this, I excuse myself.
The corrected points are:
勝手にメールを送って申し訳ございませんが → 突然のメールで失礼致します
The corrected form is much better, and such an expression is best as the opening statement.観覧 → 拝見
My mistake. The humble version of 見る is 拝見する.非常に好き → とても好き
It is not very common to use 非常に好き. 非常に is superlative, and it is not well balanced with 好きお伺いしたいことがあります → 質問なのですが
Just a better way of asking a question受付されていますでしょうか → 受付されていらっしゃいますでしょうか
A more correct and polite conjugation.依頼したい → 描いて頂けないでしょうか
依頼する is a very strong word. It may be interpreted as if making the drawing is his obligation. It is much better to just ask directly.With these corrections, he says, my translation gets a 100.
Finally, this is how he would do the same request (not a translation, because he didn't read the original text).
○○様、突然のメール失礼致します
Alexと申しますこちらで○○様のイラストをいつも拝見しております
特に鏡音リンのイラストが大好きで毎回楽しみにしておりますそこで、お伺いしたいのですが
○○様はイラストのリクエストは受付されていらっしゃいますでしょうか？
もし宜しければウェディングドレス姿のイラストを
リクエストさせて頂きたいのですが
如何でしょうか、ご検討頂ければ幸いですもしリクエストを受付されてなかったら申し訳ありません
これからも○○様のイラストを楽しみにしております
(Very direct) translation:
Mr. 〇〇, Please excuse me for (this) unexpected email.
My name is Alex.I am always looking at Mr. 〇〇's illustrations.
In particular, I like your illustrations of Kagamine Rin so much that I am looking forward (for new drawings) every day.With that, I would like to ask something of you.
Does Mr. 〇〇 take requests for illustrations?
If it is okay with you, I would like to
request an illustration of (Kagamine Rin) in a wedding dress.
Would that be possible? It would make me happy if you considered it (my request)If you do not take requests, then I apologize.
From now on, I will keep on looking forward to Mr. 〇〇's illustrations.
He pointed out that it is always a good idea to mention that it is a possibility for him to reject the request. Kind of a reverse psychology thing.
He also mentioned that it is best to keep lines, and therefore sentences short. Long lines are difficult to read, and do not give a good impression.
Posted 1 year ago # -
60!
Sufficient - that's enough ;D
I PASSED \o/
Posted 1 year ago # -
Vegio said:
60!Sufficient - that's enough ;D
I PASSED \o/
With the mentality of a Cute little girl haha, hope that native dude who rated you doesn know where the source is from.
Posted 1 year ago # -
it's ok, nobody needs to know where the source is from. I actually feel like I've wasted 3 years of my life to be honest, studying japanese.
Meh, it'll get better. I'll just learn other stuff too.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Vegio said:
I actually feel like I've wasted 3 years of my life to be honest, studying japanese.o.O..Why.
Posted 1 year ago # -
because I ain't following through~
teaching was slow and dumb, just that. The school I went to was pretty lame, and to continue with studies would mean to change cities, lots of issues to deal with, and mostly I just want to work. I want to do something real, damn it. Should have done so ages ago and just studied as a hobby, as I used to.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Vegio said:
because I ain't following through~teaching was slow and dumb, just that. The school I went to was pretty lame, and to continue with studies would mean to change cities, lots of issues to deal with, and mostly I just want to work. I want to do something real, damn it. Should have done so ages ago and just studied as a hobby, as I used to.
I see, but u dint regret it did you? It actually come in handy sometimes =).
Posted 1 year ago # -
Vegio said:
The school I went to was pretty lame, and to continue with studies would mean to change citiesMy school decided not to offer the next level, even though everyone in my class said we'd enroll. And Japanese is hard to come by here, other than private tutoring.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Isn't that probably because there is nobody qualified to teach the next level?
I know exactly what you guys are going through. Getting from the point where online tutorials and widely available introductory classes no longer give you new information; to the point where you can read mostly everything and you can focus on learning the most specific nuances of the language, is probably the toughest part when learning Japanese (heck, not only Japanese. Pretty much anything!)
I have little advice to give you, because this really depends on what you have available at your disposal, how much time and money you're willing to spend, and ultimately your passion.
However, I would like to encourage you three to not give up at this point. You have cleared the beginner barrier (it usually takes two to four years. You're doing pretty well, Vegio), and now need the momentum to cross the huge field of the intermediate student.
I probably had it easy, because I dated my (native) japanese teacher for about two years, and I forced things so we would exclusively communicate in japanese. But I think that the most important thing at this point is momentum. Try to immerse yourselves in the Japanese language as much as you can, by reading, listening to music, talking with people with a more advanced level (natives if possible), maybe save some money and come to Japan and do a homestay, or a long japanese course, or apply to the programs offered by MEXT, JICA and the Japan Foundation (if available in your country).
I know many people who got stuck after beginner level, and only very few who actually moved to advanced level. The thing they have in common is that they all decided to take an active stance on their learning process, and not just passively taking classes.
And finally, always try to get rid of your pride. The more you think you know, the less you will be able to learn. And the more you actually know, the more you know about how much you still have to learn.
Good luck, and if you have any questions, of any level up to mine (which is not that high to begin with), I will do my best to try to answer them.
Posted 1 year ago #
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