anon 21:56 28/05/2012 here.

"and I don't think level of detail and amount of frames equals 'measurable quality'. the dance/concert scene in Symphogear episode 1 is animated on 1s and quite detailed, but it looks like shit because the art is trash and the movement is amateurish-looking."

You're quite right about that. Realistic, or depending on the art direction simply "accomplished" movements should be part of the measure, but I'm unsure how to quantify that, although intuitively I'd say it should be possible to do.

"maybe I'm misunderstanding your point but by your definition of 'measurable quality', DRYL is inherently of higher quality than Mind Game because it's more detailed and (likely) has more frames."

You're understanding correctly. And Mind Game would indeed not be perceived as a display of breathtaking animation by modern and/or young anime otaku, at least I don't think it would. Another recent production that would score higher than DYRL would be Redline for example. What I was trying to do is present hard evidence to the old-anime-look-bad bunch that they are ignorant.

and I don't think level of detail and amount of frames equals 'measurable quality'. the dance/concert scene in Symphogear episode 1 is animated on 1s and quite detailed, but it looks like shit because the art is trash and the movement is amateurish-looking.

maybe I'm misunderstanding your point but by your definition of 'measurable quality', DRYL is inherently of higher quality than Mind Game because it's more detailed and (likely) has more frames.

Yes, got forbid someone have perspective and variety in order to give credit where credit is due. Otherwise I won't be a sub-human whiner about everything wrong with anything like certain pathetic individuals who obviously know nothing about creation or the work going into it; or how to even enjoy something for what it is anymore for that matter.

I can't believe you'd actually try make the fact that I like anime, great western shows, and great western games as well be somehow a negative. And the unbelievably pathetic thing is that you were up voted for it. Watch other things, people. Only children and morons would have the gall to denounce something without watching it.

What, are you trying to prove my point or what? Kanada style evolved out of necessity. The budget given to Japanese studios for domestic shows is a fraction of that in the west. It was even worse in the late 70s / early 80s. Given that, it's almost natural to tackle the problem by giving action scenes crazy movement (it lessens the impact of lower framerates) and allocating high framerates to those parts in a sequence where it has the most impact. It very much is a race for fluid movements. I'm not trying to play down Kanada's achievements, mind you. He IS the one who had the greatest share developing the style.

If you read my post again, you'll notice that I wasn't talking about artistic merit though. It was about hard, measurable quality. Even in your vid there are significant differences in framerate and animated detail between the sequences from different shows. A direct consequence of budgetary differences. No matter what you say, it is harder to animate more movement of more objects that are more detailed at higher framerates. Of course it all varies depending on the artistic style, which can be easier or harder to animate (see Shin-chan), but that is besides the point. All the animators deserve praise for what they managed to squeeze out of the frames and the time they were given, but if you're trying to argue with the old-anime-look-so-bad crowd, you'll have to point at titles that made the distinct achievement of presenting nicely drawn anime characters in detailed, fluidly animated sequences; i.e. score high in the hard quality measure that I outlined.

The fact that Kanada style has been largely replaced by CGI is the main reason why anime has lost much of its visual edge over western animation.

Also, have you taken a good look at the vid you posted? They're almost all 80s shows. With this, I rest my case.

Good drawing isn't about 'detail'; it's about expressiveness and technical skill. You can show off technical skill quite easily with simple designs and no shading. Certain Shin Chan movies are full of solid drawing and good art and the art style is specifically meant to evoke the simplistic feel of a child's drawing. There's so much to cartoon art from composition to color use to posing... and yet people focus on "detail" above all else.

And good movement isn't about framerates. Obviously if your framerate is too small it'll just look choppy and shitty, but as long as you have enough to get across the motion you want in the style you want, getting the best animation is NOT a race to achieve the highest framerate. In fact, one of the most impressive and influential animation styles that requires plenty of skill to pull off is the Kanada style, which is ALL ABOUT doing crazy, frantic animation at lower framerates http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aEmATUt2SY

This isn't 'lazy'; it's a perfectly valid style that offers a vastly different feel from super-fluid animation.

WHAT!? This comment makes no sense. What does "high definition" have to do with animation quality? You can show off fucking Musashi Gundoh in high definition and it'll still look like garbage, and you can watch old Looney Tunes shorts on freaking Youtube and they will still clearly be well animated.

Good drawing isn't about 'detail'; it's about expressiveness and technical skill. You can show off technical skill quite easily with simple designs and no shading. Certain Shin Chan movies are full of solid drawing and good art and the art style is specifically meant to evoke the simplistic feel of a child's drawing. There's so much to cartoon art from composition to color use to posing... and yet people focus on "detail" above all else.

And good movement isn't about framerates. Obviously if your framerate is too small it'll just look choppy and shitty, but as long as you have enough to get across the motion you want in the style you want, getting the best animation is NOT a race to achieve the highest framerate. In fact, one of the most impressive and influential animation styles that requires plenty of skill to pull off is the Kanada style, which is ALL ABOUT doing crazy, frantic animation at lower framerates http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aEmATUt2SY

This isn't 'lazy'; it's a perfectly valid style that offers a vastly different feel from super-fluid animation.

And Pokémon Special is full of tear-jerking moments.