CNN: “Hollywood Steals Asian Jobs for Whites”
- Categories: Anime, News
- Date: Jan 17, 2012 15:40 JST
- Tags: Adaptations, Akira, Hollywood, Mass Media, Movies, USA, Yoshitoshi Abe
CNN has been reporting controversial complaints about Hollywood’s unwavering propensity to plunder Asian anime and cinema and recast all the characters as whites, quoting complaints that this amounts to “stealing the jobs of Asian actors and insulting their origins.”
From a recent CNN Japan article:
In the US, anime enjoys much popularity and many anime works are being adapted into movies by Hollywood. However, in most cases the cast is repainted entirely white. Criticism of this practice amongst anime fans and civic groups is growing.
Warner Brothers currently has two such projects underway – one is an adaptation of Hiroshi Sakurazaka’s [Yoshitoshi Abe illustrated SF] light novel All You Need Is Kill [which happens to be available in English], where the lead is to be Tom Cruise.
The other is Katsuhiro Otomo’s SF manga Akira, made into an anime movie in 1988. In this case, the entire cast consists of whites. In this case, lead character Kaneda will be played by Garrett Hedlund.
Professor Kent A. Ono of the University of Illinois says a great many Asian roles have been taken by white actors over the years, with such examples as Mickey Rooney playing a Japanese role in 1961′s Breakfast at Tiffany’s, and Yul Brynner playing the king of Siam in 1956′s The King and I.
Some even replace the entire roles with Americans, such as the 1954 remake of The Seven Samurai into The Magnificent Seven. Recent examples are Dragonball Evolution and Speed Racer.
Professor Ono say that “the production staff likely maintain that as anime characters aren’t even real people, there’s no problem with changing their race.”
He is critical of the practice: “This doesn’t just steal the jobs of Asian actors, it’s an insult to their origins.”
[...]
In the case of Akira, the whole setting has been switched from Japan to Manhattan. Animation historian Jerry Beck says this is a major mistake: “The fans they are targeting all feel the Japanese elements to be one of the most appealing elements of the work, the producers don’t get this at all.” He fears this will merely “cheapen” the film.
[...]
As for All You Need Is Kill, the lead will become a young American. Director Doug Liman has said in an interview that the cast will be “completely American.” One site criticises this, saying “Even if you change the setting to America, there’s no need to replace the whole cast with whites. It doesn’t reflect the fact that there are many ‘completely American’ Asians.”
No less than George Takei himself has been complaining about the practice as well, not that anyone in Hollywood pays attention to such trifles.
Japanese seem practically resigned to having America routinely plundering their culture, although it might surprise some “Asian American” advocates to learn that Chinese, Japanese and Koreans actually consider themselves distinct nationalities:
“Who cares. America has no history of its own, so it is stuck making movies using material from other countries.”
“Hollywood just has Chinese people play Japanese roles anyway.”
“It might be interesting to see Kaneda played by some poverty stricken Hispanic.”
“If they don’t pack all their dramas with people of every possible race over there, they get accused of discrimination.”
“Cast them as whites. Every time they cast a Japanese role over there, it ends up being some dirty slant-eyed Korean!”
“Make it in Japanese with English subs!”
“What’s wrong with localising these titles?”
“Well, basically it would be best if the originating country made the adaptation, wouldn’t it?”
“There’s no way any American could understand Japanese history. It’s the same with China. You can’t really translate it into English. That’s why they can’t understand any of the subtleties. They can only reproduce the most superficial elements, which is why none of what they produce is any good.”
“If it’s good it doesn’t matter who you use as actors. In the case of Dragonball they just ignored the whole original work though…”
“It looks like we have another great adaptation to look forward to!”
“If it were made in Japan it would just end up like Gantz…”
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Well, it's not like they steal their jobs or dignity. It's more like Hollywood is happily ignorant and Caucasian-centric when it comes to their choices.
Think about it, over the last years their has been a trend to include lots of "racial placeholders" in movies. Sort of like, a nod to "political correctness". Of course, those actors are usually relegated to playing typical stereotypes and they end up looking rather bland in the long run.
Then again, think about it from a different angle. Bollywood, Hong Kong Cinema and all the other local hot spots usually cater to their own hemisphere and you usually don't hear Hollywood complaining about that.
Sure, it's NEVER good to change a certain base material so that it fits the expectations of the masses versus the expectations of the true fans. BUT, that's all a matter of finances. Money will always be the defining factor in the end.
Would i have preferred a Japanese Dragonball live-action movie? I don't know. It would depend on what they would have come up with. Do i like the American movie? Hell no! It sucks on many more levels than mere originality.
"It's more like Hollywood is happily ignorant and Caucasian-centric when it comes to their choices."
mmm, not exactly.
at least, not in the sense that it's some sort of institutional stupidity.
it's more like the reality of the American industry "leading man" is he's still white.
the changing demographics of America don't matter.
the origins of the source doesn't matter.
what matters is the way the industry works is a movie is sold on a lead actor or actress (that person is on all the PR material, they do all the interviews, their name is plastered all over the sales material, etc etc).
and the vast majority of those actors and actresses are white.
but it's not that industry execs are somehow too stupid to see beyond white. it's that they want to sell a film and they can't sell it without a big name.
and those big names are largely white.
and it gets worse if we are talking about some sort of asian project.
there is a decent number of black actors/actresses who could carry a film.
a smaller number of hispanic.
and no asian american actors (that i can think of at least) who could really claim to have the star power to lead a film.
realistically the only asian actor who could lead a film in the US is probably Jackie Chan, and he's not American, and even then we're only talking about a specific type of film.
what he's done in the China/HK scene is a lot more diverse than what Americans know him for.
Don't forget the obligatory and inevitable black character! It's not complete whitewashing!
The black characters's job is to say things like "Bling BLing!"
and
"That is whack!"
Don't forget those lines, they gotta have them all :D
dont forget they used to be the first ones to die too but now they have a 33% thanks to other ethnics such as orientals and Asians and whites have 1%.
you got that from a movie, making fun of this exact thing
What movie?
What EVERYONE forgets is that 99.999999% of anime movie adaptations SUCK HORRIBLY whether is be with white or asian actors... sooooo yeaaaaahhhhhhhhh just dont make adaptations lol. just bring the movie back with an HD remake and maybe some extra story / scenes
True dat y'all indeed.
Down with Hollywood!
They don't like anyone, not even their fellow citizens in America by lobbying money for absurd laws like SOPA and PIPA
If Samuel L. Jackson plays Kaneda I'll watch it.
Don't forget the obligatory and inevitable "comedic black character sidekick"! It's not complete whitewashing!
fixed.
lol i gess but remembere asian movies like, mortal kombat?? XD i prefer movies for holliwood...at leas asian looks all the same even if i like manga anime et, they are not really adaptables to soma charaters.....
Mortal Kombat wasnt asian, was a hollywood production with an occidental director.
Learn to troll at least.
I don't care if the role is taken by Asian, Caucasian, black, Indian etc... as long as its WATCHABLE, I'm fine with whoever playing the role. Though, just how many adaptions by Hollywood were successful? I believe it was none...
avatar the last airbender movie.
directed by M. Night Shyamalan.
nuff said.
It was shit.
big time.
To his credit there were no plants killing people this time.
wtf that was absolute garbage
You're right! The promblem is not that the cast is white (in Hollywood it is rarely wholly white cast anyway - a lot of blacks and asians too), but the thing, that the people responsible for adaption completely don't understand anime... Director that doesn't feel "the magic" of thing he works on, will never make a good adaptation.
IN CORRECT!!! WE HAVE SCOTT PILGRIM!!! >:D The lone survivor in this dark world of manga/anime to movie adaptations!!!
Scott Pilgrim isn't anime dude. It's a spoof/parody of anime/manga made by a Canadian Cartoonist. The art style is bug eyed, but as we all know here, big eyes and chibi characters don't make it anime.
so back to the point; nope, there aren't any successful adaptations of anime/manga made by Hollywood yet.
If they ever have to make it successful however, they should think of doing it like recent marvel comics adaptations, where 80% of the movie is Good quality CG. It could do some of the Manga titles justice at least.
and 2, they should stop think about " the AMURCANN Audience" and stick with the original plot and design more, instead of putting together whatever's convenient and call it "fill in character name"
That old model of selling movie titles with a star used to work, but not when the title ITSELF is actually the bigger thing.
I mean, LOTR was a adaptation. Although not manga, but hey, they're actor's weren't all star level before the series. Only a few were big stars, but most people didn't go watch LOTR for the stars, it was for the title. Just like kids go watch Harry Potter expecting the visualization of the novel that they love.
If Hollywood doesn't sort out what titles should cater to the right audience, they'll keep failing on these mid budget manga/anime adaptations.
I do agree that watchable adaptations can be great on their own.
It's just that it's disheartening that intrinsically Asian stories with Asian setting and Asian characters/actors just are noted as 'unsellable' to the Western world.
That is just a very offputting sensation. That because it is Asian, it's not marketable.
Speed Racer ended up being pretty damn enjoyable to watch.
Speed Racer movie was trash.
Damn right, I loved that movie and even own in on Blu-Ray myself. Sad it only made like 33 mil when it cost 100 mil to make :(
There WAS supposed to be a sequel but WB pulled the plug when it made crap at the box office.
That movie ran on pure "Rule of cool" and the Directors did an amazing job adapting it and changing a few things here and there for an american audience.
In my eyes, being one of the few, it was a success.
blind maybe :D
Speed racer it´s the worst film in they filmography. even worst than matrix 2 and 3.
The Matrix 2 and 3 had good stories. People just like to bitch because they think it makes them sound smart.
Not true. Lord of the Rings was the only Hollywood adaptation I found that was excellent.
Lord of the Rings was hands down, but I think Tenshi's point was at adaptations from Jap anime/movies, not adaptations in general.
Lord of the Rings? They took all the main roles and recast them as humans.
Have you ever read the books. And I mean the actual books in english not some picture books made for children or some fucked up translations.
I admit it's impossible to cram even one of those books in 3 hours movie. Every book would have needed it's own trilogy to honour the original and we all know that's never going to happen.
The balance of action to actual plot is throuwn out the window just to cram a few more action scene seconds in them and they even made changes to the script to make it possible. For example the hobbits sword were not given to them by aragorn in the books.
Hey cheese fucker, do you realize that everybody who was actually a decision maker in those films were fans of the books?
I'm pretty certain that Christopher Lee alone has read the books more times than you have.
You are obviously too stupid to realize that there are things that are conveyed in the books that don't translate exactly to film, so you have to make changes accordingly to deliver the same message.
And the message is what counts, not whether or not Strider gave the hobbits weapons on the Weathertop.
Yeah, but that was due to the whole, "I can't make Tom Bombadil work" argument, and it's a fairly decent argument to make considering the type of movie they were making.
The changes they made, were in general not too extreme, and they were respectful of the Source Material.
Even stuff like making it Arwen who saves Frodo during movie 1, whereas it's actually Glorfindel, who put Frodo on his horse and have it deal with the running, whilest he helped delay the Nazgul's and eventually together with Strider and the Hobbits* drive them into the river Bruinen, which has been unleashed by Elrond, with a little extra magic by Gandalf as well.
*: The latter using torches, whereas Glorfindel didn't need that, considering his own powers.
And they made that change to give Arwen more face time, to help further the idea, that she's Aragorn's The One. This to better highlight the Eowyn tempation later on.
its pretty tough to up do people's imagination... books with no picture are always going to be better... that, or a lot of people just say "books are better than the film" so that everyone know they read that thick ass book....
The lord of the rings books were absolutely terrible. I don't know how it became popular in the first place.
The balance of action with plot is a little off in the movies I admit but the balance of action/plot with mind changing/rants/random nonsense in the books was a perfect 50-50
LOL I think KF missed the point entirely, as there are a number of book adaptions that are very good. Even some book adaptions that aren't even faithful turn out to be something enjoyable.
umm, I don't think lord of the rings was made by hollywood
You're kidding, right?
If i was an asian actor i wouldn't be caught dead in a holywood remake. Best way i can think of to ruin your reputation. The next good remake will be the first!
Gotta agree. Why are they still continuing this when both DBZ and Speed Racer failed so hard?
They failed becomes the lack of money they had for them.
I counter that arguement with the Coen Bros. True Grit.
... and we will pay you 5 million for appearing in this role. What's this, you don't want it? Oh well, enjoy your reputation then.
what about silent hill,not bad movie is it.
It's not just bad, it's horrible.
Sure, the art direction is generally okay - but as an adaptation of Silent Hill 1 and 2, it's terrible. I'll set aside the issue of terrible dialogue and stupid writing to talk about this at a higher level. Here's why it's a bad adaptation-
Women have a social support network in other women. Men do not. When Rose leaves her husband, it's empowering. When the wives of Harry and James die, they're almost completely alone (and completely alone in the case of James). That power dynamic radically alters the feeling one gets when wandering through the haunted, abandoned town.
There's no reason why Rose would experience any of the same things Harry and James did. In Harry's case, he was experiencing projections from Cheryl. In James' case, his own sexual frustration with women was reflected back at him.
There's no need to replace Harry or James with an entirely new character that never appeared in the books.
The cult's reinvention into a Jim Jones reactionary Christian group was also unnecessary. When they started chanting "burn the witch!" it was like a very bad production of _The Crucible_.
I get that people wanted the movie to be good and are trying to like it in spite of the fact that it's not good. The same thing happened with the Transformers movies. But it's not good, and I want the adaptations to be more faithful to the ideas and themes of the source material.
It's not bad it's HORRIBLE.
It's probably because the game is based on caucasians.
What are "Caucasians"? How is that ridiculous word still used for white people of western European origin? It is totally wrong, white people looking like western Europeans have never lived in Caucasus area between Turkey & Iran and southern Russia. Caucasus mountains, very dark people live there.
Of article we are discussing: All Hollywood remakes are shit, of whatever origin, not only from East Asia.
Hollywood makes the best movies, period. What actors need to do is read the fucking script first so they know whether or not it is well written and not a piece of shit.
And I'd like to know how many Asian actors are actually auditioning.
Hey, when you don't have any other acting job and are offered one, you accept it even if it's shit. How do you think they pay their bills? And I'm not talking big name actors either, just the regular "trying to get by" ones, which are the majority.
Yeah those gantz movies were pretty stupid.
Sadly I find most of the Japanese actors not affiliated with Hollywood in any way to be sub-par in acting when compared to the American equivalent. You will always have this awkward feel about their acting, or rather, you can tell its acting and not living the character.
But bleaching all the characters and settings is downright stupid too. I think a collab would be amazing though. American direction with Japanese actors (after a bit of special exercise).
There's actually some really great Japanese actors around. China, Taiwan and Korea nowadays has a sizable stable of great actors. In America, there seemed to be more Asian American actors who had more prominent roles.
That said, the reason why so many Japanese movies may have bad acting is because just like Hollywood, they have their own clique of producers handpicking the talent they want to push out, not necessarily for being great, but because that's what the producers want.
That's precisely what's happening in Hollywood where a circle of Hollywood actors/directors/writers have their own clique, not to mention the British connection the Oscars and film industry has, which is why we see so many British-centric stories win Oscars and get more acknowledgement.
As for Asian stories... I'm sad to say, but Asians are still facing forms of prejudice in their own way. Ever watch any travel channel programming or food programming and they happen to go to a China town or Korea town or Vietnam town to eat food and partake in the culture? They always play that ridiculous harpy, cliche Asian 'traditional' music even if they happen to be in LA or New York's China/Korea town. And it is kind of true that they are not making enough of an effort or even actively blocking out showing intrinsically Asian stories and actors to feature in them in Western mass media.
TV and Film industries in America and well, most of the Western world just don't really know what to make of Asian entertainment and writers/directors/actors. They always keep them at an arm's length at best, or are antagonistic in how they deal with it (such as that Avatar Last Airbender movie being MURDERED in terms of white-washing and the story/director just being hemmed in by Hollywood)
You forget to add Theater production they do Stage production as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_American_theatre
'sub-par- to hollywood? wtf? hollywood *is* the definition of subpar. go watch some foreign cinema fgs.
I live in one of those "foreign" countries and I can certainly objectively tell that British and American quality productions are above the rest professionally. French have made some really good ones as well, but French productions are oft so artistic they might fall short in reaching foreign minds. Of late China has pulled off good films that surely find those receptive to them. You can find B-movies in any country, the USA included, but it's useless to use those in comparisons.
I don't honestly know if it's the "subtleties" in the Japanese culture or what, but despite having tried to watch lots of movies from there, 99% of them seem far less professional than any quality ones from the UK or USA. The directing is especially horrible (in my Western eyes, at least), proved by the fact Japanese top actors can act every bit as well as American or British ones under foreign direction. But then again, maybe it's the subtleties, despite the fact I've never seen any of those subtleties in the behavior of the Japanese people I've met and known in RL.
Hollywood IS sub-par. Go watch some films from europe, korea, or hong kong. Oh, and japanese actors are way better than most of the morons in the US. Tadanobu Asano for example ...
blablablablabla lalalalalalalaalalalala no. Bastardizing? It's everywhere.
Asano was in the american Thor movie.
this whole bitchfit about "whitewashing" content is just people bitching they are not getting the money from such projects or hired to appear in it. People are finding anything they can bitch about to prevent a film based on any form of controversy which usually sparks public interest to the point they will actively seek out the film. So what if Hollywood makes an american version of Akira or Bleach, do you know how many american films have been bastardized by the japanese? Or how anime originated through copying Disney's big eyes and fluid action.
As for the Magnificent Seven/Seven Samurai films, both were great and Kurosawa was pleased with how they translated Seven Samurai.
And Watanabe Ken is still the most recognizable Japanese English-medium actor, thanks to Clint Eastwood and Christopher Nolan...
I think that George Takei, Pat Morita and Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa still have him beat there.
Who would have guessed that you will get less skilled actors if Hollywood pays millions and you don't.
at first i couldnt pin point what exactly is "wrong" with their acting... because it felt weird... then i realised a lot of japanese words end with a vowel sound if u spell it in romanji.. which always means they end up having their mouth open at the end of the sentence... then everything stopped being weird...maybe its just me
Read what you wrote out loud and tell me whether your mouth is open or not at the end of each sentence.
yes... there's always at least one profound nugget of truth in those 2ch rants. And that was surely one...
To be fair, this 'whitewashing' of actors and stories has been observed by Western movie/TV fans and otaku. 2ch honestly is riding in on what people have been complaining for probably decades.
I agree that the practice is idiotic, and I think Hollywood should use the opportunities of anime adaptations to develop a better stable of Asian-American headliners. Yes, I said Asian-American, as the old country cares about prejudices that no one in America really does just like in Europe--for instance, was anyone here really complaining that Russell Crowe was an Aussie playing a Roman Spaniard in Gladiator? No, they were complaining about Russell Crowe being an enormous douche, but I digress.
I don't think the executives and casting people are inherently racist, at least no more than any other big city businessman. I do think, however, they are merely reflecting prejudices of Middle America that, while they themselves don't mind or care, they have to pander to these people for the movies to do well. It's the same reason you rarely see a homosexual main character, and such a high percentage of movie stars are white--Hollywood thinks Middle America won't be able to relate to the characters otherwise. I call that stupid, but they're the ones that spend their entire lives making those kinds of decisions, so maybe they're just a sad reflection of reality.
Then again, these are often the same folk who insist that any adaptation of anything be completely watered down and changed from the source material. There's something to be said for having to change it to make it work better as a live action movie, but they always take it too far, and neither the original fans nor anyone else who sees it has liked the results. Still, I'm not one of these people who generically insult Hollywood and say to watch foreign cinema cuz it's so much better etc etc, for instance almost every single Japanese actor I've seen is terrible at acting and many European films are rather pretentious.
Professor Ono say that “the production staff likely maintain that as anime characters aren’t even real people, there’s no problem with changing their race.”
Loli's aren't real people, so there's no problem!
Hollywood remaking anime and replacing all the Asian characters with whites is like raping someone and cumming inside them. Filling the victim with white stuff is easily overshadowed by the more serious offenses at hand.
No. That would be like Hollywood buying all the anime producing studios and making them draw nothing but South Park.
Well, I care not for Hollywood, I just want some quality movie and not complete crap.
Altering the cast and making them into something comepletely different is STUPID...(EG, DRAGON BALL EVOLUTION)
Dragonball Evolution....that was shit
Really? They are bringing up examples from the 50s and 60s when to this day Japan still uses blackface (and whiteface...) in their media?
Hollywood has always been racist pieces of shit.
When Akira was released in theaters in America during the late 80's they did the same thing! They changed the city from Tokyo to New York. That's why the Streamline version dub has New York accents! It failed miserably! When Streamline brought Akira to video, they changed the city back to Tokyo.
The moral of the story is, those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.
If the Akira movie ever comes out, I hope it makes less money than Dragonball Evolution!
Forget the actors, the directors and screenplay writers don't have any idea what the work is even about. The adaptation just ends up as some butchered piece of crap.
This is a dance that's bee going on in Hollywood blogs for a while.
Regarding the actors, I only blame those who decide to hide.
Regarding the movies, if the adaptations retained their roots they would most likely be considered international productions, condemned to be projected in universities' film clubs.
Besides, those NEET denizens arguing of America stealing foreign cultures, there are also many animes with overseas settings, so that's not a real point of discussion.
This is kind of an unavoidable issue as long as copy rights are being granted to producers. But who's there to blame for that? Some people may not like the issue.
Hollywood budgets + Japanese actors = would-be win for me. I still think Japanese womans are the most beautiful womans in the world. And what is considered beautiful in america is fucking ugly whore to me.
You sound like you have never stepped foot in Japan.
Japanese women =/= Japanese idols
Just like in any other country there are hideous ones and average ones and a SMALL percentage of really attractive ones.
Indeed they are ugly whores that look like crack whores without make up.
Having been a american that has lived in japan I disagree. Japanese women run from butt ugly to stunningly beautiful just like women from any country, but the rare thing I have seen is fat women, though fat girls are starting to multiply in number.
Criticism of this practice amongst anime fans
Lolwut? It's the most sensible things to do.
It's the only NEET thing to do.
ty (thnak) you
This complaint is idiotic no matter how you look at it. The producers think about their targeted audience first and it simply is true that people normally find it easier to relate to people who look like them.
For the very same reason Thermae Romae has a mainly Asian/Japanese cast when it comes to the main actors completly ignoring the fact that there were no Asians in Rome.
It is common practice to do stuff like this, no matter the origins of a work/adaption. Bollywood is casting about 99,9% Indians, Japanese movie makers are for the most part only castin Japanese actors and so does about any nation that produces movies.
Yet for some obscure reason white people are evil when they do the very same thing that is completly normal and ok when anybody else does it?
and don't forget all those poor robots that are left unemployed thanks to cg
I didn't really give a shit at first, but George Takei is a badass so maybe there is something to this....
Hollywood just doesn't understand anime.
Take "the last airbender"(because at the time they released it right next to avatar, a major major hit).
They couldn't even produce the characters name right. The WHOLE movie, i'm just facepalming. Forget the racist everyone in _______ land is indian, asian, or white, no exceptions.
But the worse part, its a bloody AMERICAN cartoon. Its on fricken nick. I could just turn the channel and find out how to say every characters name in 5 minutes. HOW DID THEY MESS THAT UP. Idk........
But thats hollywood, they'll fail to make it any good anyway, just like DBE.
--------------------------------
Then again, its not like Japan did a great job either, *cough* gantz.
God Dammit Dehy took Mah JUB!!!!!!
I don't have time now for one of my usual foaming rants...
But I will be enraged if when they make "Gunmm" into a movie they don't use some cute, petite oriental chick for it. Bad enough no Chun-Li as an Asian...
THEY TOOK THERE JOBS!!!!!
no it's ok as long as the quality is good!
That's why i refuse to watch anime to live action movies, it's all about money and never quality.
It'll end up like that horrible tekken movie or street fighter or dead or alive.
Just leave it alone!
You forgot Dragon Ball.
Based on history, greed fucks everything up.
American films use the races most commonly found in America. It's nothing against the Japanese people, but America is a melting pot of races, and it would be hard to meet their tastes using a homogenous cast.
Consider the following.
They want the best actors they can find for these roles. Skin color is pointless.
If it all goes to whites then they were simply better actors during auditions. We are a meritocracy. We shouldn't set aside certain roles for certain races because someone gets butthurt.
Ok, make an African-American play the next Superman then, if colour of the skin doesn't matter.
Oh, I know, remake Roots with just white actors, because obviously they're better actors.
The days that the US was a meritocracy are long gone.
It's all about who you know, not what you know these days.
I'd watch a black Superman. *shrugs*
Roots with white actors doesn't make sense, and if you don't understand why, I'm sorry, you're an idiot. Next you'll have wanted the Pearl Harbor Kamikaze pilots to be Australian.
How about a Captain America with Asian or African ancestry?