Fansubbers: “We Support Anime” 2ch: “You Are Thieves!”


2ch’s reaction to fansubbers who excuse their illegal acts by saying they are “supporting the anime industry” and blame the situation on the industry for not providing anime quickly enough is to denounce them for their brazen hypocrisy.

A Japanese journalist attending Anime Expo 2010, held in Los Angeles, had the misfortune to meet a group of fansubbers at the event and writes about the encounter for Nikkei:

I approached a pair of well known LA-based fansubbers at the event.

They explained some of their reasoning:

“We don’t like having to wait to get our anime, and the companies here won’t do it quickly enough. But we can do it.

By providing anime with no time lag, we’re supporting the American anime market. Even if it is illegal.

The current state of the American anime market is definitely not good for anime consumers. The companies won’t change it, so we do it for them.”

After speaking with the fansubbers, I spoke to a Japanese researcher with the Harvard Business School, who was accompanying me. What he murmured to me left an impression:

“Those kids were cheeky, weren’t they?”

He was smiling as he said it, but his eyes weren’t smiling…

As I explained previously, “fansubs” are the main way of viewing anime in America. From a purely legal perspective, fansubbing is nothing more than another way of saying piracy.

Many have said that fansubs are behind much of the sudden collapse of the American anime market. Naturally many copyright holders want a crackdown.

It’s often said that fansubbers just do it for love of anime or because they want to promote anime. Opinion tends to be divided as to whether that is the case, or whether they are simple hypocrites making excuses for themselves.

However, it is clear that they do not think adequate access to anime is being provided by the industry.

He goes on to describe some of the grey areas fansubbing encompasses, where anime producers historically provided only illegal, inferior or impractical access to their products overseas, with the result that consumers took matters into their own hands in what he regards as a very American display of initiative.

After being presented with the article, 2ch is less than convinced by their excuses:

“Just a bunch of pirates trying to justify their crimes.”

“Summary: ‘We’re not thieves. We just like anime. We won’t watch it if we have to pay.'”

“Sounds like something some idiots would say in order to rationalise what they’re doing. I hope these morons get arrested, especially in Japan.”

“Pirate logic is the same the world over.”

“They pretend to be gods by freely watching and redistributing the anime Japanese actually buy and support…”

“If Japan treated Disney cartoons and Hollywood movies like they treated our anime, the US government would go ballistic!”

“What are they on about? ‘The American anime market,’ ‘American anime consumers’ – when they just illegally pirate everything, is there a ‘market’? Are they ‘consumers’?”

“With YouTube and similar, Japanese anime sales overseas have dropped off and it’s barely commerically viable anymore.”

“They should really crack down on these people like Disney does. Why on earth don’t they?”

“It’s also true that without fansubs anime wouldn’t have spread overseas like it did. And there are a lot of people like this in Japan itself.”

“The translation abilities of fansubbers are so pitiful it’s a wonder anyone thinks they can form a valid opinion of an anime by watching them.”

“Even in Japan there are scumbags who sub western films and then upload them, and get treated like gods for doing it.”

“They refuse to learn Japanese – just look at all the Japanese who learn English to watch their films. What spoilt brats.”

“Some of these guys also claim to be doing it to advertise the anime in question.”

“Just cracking down may not increase their revenues in any case. Perhaps they should loosen their grip and let even more people see them.”

“So you’re an anime producer, are you?”

“What are you, deluded?”

“This is just what you’d expect of people who are satisfied with the video quality you get with fansubs.”

“Having these people watch our anime might encourage more censorship. It would be best if they didn’t watch them.”

“It’s the industry’s own fault. They should have a Disney-style copyright protection effort.”

“What really pisses me off is when weekly manga are scanned and translated even before you can buy it in the shops here.”

“Japanese regional anime otaku: ‘The regional stations are to blame for not broadcasting any anime! We have to use video sharing sites, it’s our last resort!’

Me: ‘What about ATX?’ [a premium anime channel available nation-wide]

Natives: ‘…'”

“Take a leaf out of my book you hairy foreigners! I waited for the Japanese release of ‘Transformers’ without watching it illegally, I went to the US to buy goods despite not speaking a lick of English, I attended the events and bought stuff! Those people have no right to say they love anime.”

“Leaving aside the matter of overseas otaku, I just want to say to them to stop circulating anime online before you can even buy or watch it in Kanto…”

“What a bunch of asses. Download all the doujinshi you want, but leave stuff by pros alone.”

“I can’t say what these people are doing is justified, but I do think the producers who ignore the demand here have really wasted an opportunity.”

“Just buy the DVDs! Otherwise wait! Or else make something yourself, if you can…”

“They think they are entitled to watch it all for free now, so they won’t buy anything. Do they think this stuff is produced by some sort of natural process!?”

“Well, it’s sad but most of them just don’t want to watch the anime enough to actually pay for it to be made.”

“Even without having a fee system, they can still make something by advertising on the videos, can’t they? It’s not a huge effort for the producers to sub and provide official versions of their anime with minimal lag. It’s better than just having everyone watch them for nothing.”

“I think some companies already went bust trying that.”

“As things are now the Americans probably don’t want to buy much advertising.”

“Those Americans won’t buy anything. It doesn’t matter how many fans there are.

Look at the prices on the NA editions! It’s that cheap and they still won’t buy it!? It’d be a bargain sale price in Japan.”

“I get the feeling that it is just us who are paying a lot more.”

“2 episodes for $70 is Japan only, yes.”

“The director of Code Geass said in an interview that at US prices 70% of anime titles released in Japan would lose money.

Just because you sell at a very low price doesn’t mean your sales will necessarily increase a huge amount.

There simply are not many otaku to sell to in any case. Hollywood films just sell to millions of people so they can spread the cost over them all like that.

Even at ¥980, this season’s crop of moe anime would never sell 100,000 copies. US prices for anime are from half to a tenth of what we pay – but the market is still collapsing.”

“If you don’t broadcast and release DVDs simultaneously in all countries, your sales will continue to decrease. In a world connected by the Internet, popularity arises simultaneously, globally.

If you try to force people to wait a year for something to be localised, it will long since have fallen from popularity by then.”

“So far they have been saying this:

‘Japanese must distribute anime freely at the same time as it airs in Japan – if they don’t, fansubbing will continue forever.’

So some Japanese makers tried to accommodate them even with their meagre budgets.

They distributed the Tower of Druaga free on YouTube.

What happened? The fansubbers ripped off the subs and began distributing their own version in higher resolution.

Ore no Imouto was also being simulcast in the US.

What happened? The show was leaked online before it even aired, and then redistributed and they hastily cancelled the whole thing.

They try to make out as if they are benevolent volunteers. But really their morals are completely absent.”

“And they do make money from this in spite of it being a ‘volunteer effort.’ They are happy to accept donations – it doesn’t matter how hard the creators work on it, the praise and the money ends up with them in the end.

And let’s not forget a certain site which targeted Japanese anime, pirated them and distributed them online for free, then became a multimillion dollar enterprise – Crunchy Roll, started by a Chinese-American.”

“What the idyllic legend of fansubbers starting an overseas market for anime refers to is a bunch of students handing around translated VHS tapes and showing them at their universities.

But that has nothing to do with the situation now, where ‘anime = download for free’ and the market is collapsing.”

“In a little while this thread will be translated and made into an article on some foreign site, and they’ll leave out the inconvenient stuff above and just start a huge flamefest.”

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    Avatar of Offline
    Comment by Offline
    11:54 28/12/2010 # ! Quality (+1.0)

    Seems like blaming everything on 'piracy' and banning 'unhealthy fiction' will be the new fad in 2011...I1m looking forward to next year...>___>

    Avatar of Exia
    Comment by Exia
    11:52 28/12/2010 # ! Quality (+0.9)

    American Dubs sound like shit. Where's the Emotion? The Passion? It just is not there.

    Avatar of Roy
    Comment by Roy
    11:57 28/12/2010 # ! Quality (+1.0)

    Engrish subs ick~!

    Avatar of washuotaku
    Comment by washuotaku
    12:06 28/12/2010 # ! Good (+0.4)

    It depends really. I believe Dubbing is a necessary evil for anime (and anything foreign) to make it mainstream in the United States. They wouldn't show Bleach on Adult Swim if it was only subbed... it wouldn't be also one of there most popular shows either.

    Most anime fans start with the dubs, then migrate to subs when they desire more, it's a natural progression.

    Comment by Pyrolight
    11:59 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    2x2 shinobuden, great dub.

    Comment by Anonymous
    12:12 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    Majority of them, true. But there has been gems like cowboy bebops and such once a while.

    Comment by Anonymous
    18:01 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Trigun's voice actor for Vash was also a rare gem...went on to do stuff like the Elementalist from Guild Wars...

    Avatar of Kwonnie
    Comment by Kwonnie
    12:26 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Cowboy Bebop, Samural Champloo (almost), GitS: Sac, FLCL, and Full Metal Alchemist were all rather good dubs... all the same, they don't stack up against the majority; some 99.9% of dubs.

    Avatar of Astray Flame
    Comment by Astray Flame
    13:18 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    I personally think that FMP, Furuba, and Scyred was also done pretty good for english dub. I can actually sit through the episode w/o the need to switch to Jp audio.

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:27 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    While I prefer Japanese voice over most of the times, I actually like Inuyasha's English voice cast better than the Japanese. The female characters sound more assertive in English.

    Comment by Anonymous
    14:06 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Yu Yu Hakusho. Now there's a dub.

    Comment by Anonymous
    12:31 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    ya, i get you, damn 4kids.

    also, censorships is also to blame for the low sales of anime in USA.

    someone should make an animation on the iraq war shit and see how they censor it.

    heck, Odex > 4kids

    Avatar of Gogetters
    Comment by Gogetters
    12:22 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Some dubs are pretty good like FMA and Brotherhood.

    Avatar of TFish
    Comment by TFish
    12:26 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    No, FMA and Brotherhood were also shitty. None of the dubs ever sound real, they just don't match up.

    Comment by Anonymous
    20:56 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    What you're talking about is Delivery. When you watch a little kid doing a school play from script, does it sound the same as a trained actor? Not saying it can't be a kid, some kids can act quite well with proper training and intuition. Anyway, no, no it doesn't sound the same.

    Japanese VAs are: TRAINED

    At least in most cases. The reason you never hear anyone give a monologue in real life is because monologues are part of the delivery of plot in any kind of production, be it a play, film, or TV show. Heck, you need Delivery in music, if it has lyrics.

    Most of the people doing American dubs are the same people who do American cartoons with their wacky nonsense (fyi, I watch the anime that I DO watch because it DOES NOT do that). They have the ability to Deliver wacky content, but in Anime it is usually out of context and sounds awkward. Granted, it would work just fine with something like Dead Leaves, but even that requires deadpan Delivery. You have a hard time getting proper deadpan Delivery in American COMEDY, for god's sake, and that's where it is really, really important.

    If you look at really old American TV shows, like back in the 70's, they hadn't really refined the art of Delivery in a way that people sitting around at home would take it seriously and pay a lot for it. This started to pick up once Hollywood became really big-budget, but then it lost its soul somewhere in the 90's-00's era, and we're recycling crap now. The same people employed in recycling that crap are turning anime into crap by dubs.

    Anime in America is still about as new as TV productions were in the 70's. I wager, give it 10-15 years, America will figure out how to properly dub anime, and that'll last for about 10-15 years once it gets worked out, and then we'll go back to recycling crap again.

    Avatar of Yoshii-kun
    Comment by Yoshii-kun
    12:49 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    Personal opinion;
    Dubs = not good (ever)

    Avatar of TFish
    Comment by TFish
    17:43 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    You ever watch a movie and get sucked in to the movie? That can never ever happen with English dub anime because none of the voice actors know how to put any emotion or character into it. All the voices come off sounding like the same 5 people in every dub, and they all sound like they belong to a childrens cartoon or they are simply reading in a generic "Happy" Voice, "Angry" voice, "sad" voice. There's no believability.

    Comment by Anonymous
    14:52 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    What the heck does "sounding real" even entail, anyway? In case you didn't notice, no real Japanese person ever speak like the characters do in most anime.

    Comment by Anonymous
    14:16 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    The above anon needs to take his tantrums elsewhere, that was just uncalled for. That being said, saying "Dubs = not good (ever). Is am ignorant generality. In the future I hope you both learn to make more constructive conversation.

    Comment by Anonymous

    At least you were reasonable enough to acknowledge that it's your own personal opinion. Dubs can be great. Cowboy Bebop director actually stated on many occation that actually deemed the English dubs of his show to be superior than that of the original Japanese dubs.

    Avatar of Gogetters
    Comment by Gogetters

    What is a good dub then? It's all personal opinion.

    Comment by Anonymous
    12:50 28/12/2010 # ! Drivel (-1.0)

    Please, weeaboo. FMA was quality english dub. Go swallow a Jap cock you fucking kiss ass.

    Comment by Anonymous

    It's because the stupid Americans running the companies still think what the vast majority of stupid American adults think: that cartoons are for little kids, and so they can put as little effort into them as possible, since the little kiddies won't know any better.

    What they don't get is that between manga and anime in Japan, people from age four to age sixty-four read and watch this stuff. It's not just for "small minded, easily fooled" kids ages 6-14, and maybe if someone got these MORONS running the dubbing companies educated on just what the hell anime IS, maybe they'd put enough effort into dubs so that they don't suck so horribly.

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:07 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    Japanese people think cartoons are for kids too though the definition of kid goes up to the end of high school.

    Avatar of PrinceHeir
    Comment by PrinceHeir
    15:05 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (-0.2)

    fucking damn this is what im talking about ^^

    american companies still think anime is for kids when they don't realized that american cartoon is not equal to japanese anime, there are more mature than that american crap, Evangelion, Hellsing, heck i doubt they can even air Higurashi due to it's content and such.

    same thing with american comics and japanese manga. what are the genres for american comics? oh that's right superheroes and that's the only thing they have, while in manga they offer kids, shoujo, yuri, yaoi, violence, action, superhero, mecha's, moe's, h-manga, harem. you name it. not to mention manga appeals to larger variety of groups(a huge part of asia also)

    while american comics? well they only appeal to americans, the rest of asia? very few but there are some quality artist like Ashley Wood and series like Witchblade and Spawn(which probably the only 2 western comics i like, maybe characters like Gambit and Spiderman look cool. though witchblade had a manga and anime so that's a plus ^^)

    want western comics japan? i recommend you look Ashley Wood, he's art is not only Stunning but godlike also. just look at MGS Portable Ops, Peace Walker and Hellspawn. now that's the kind of western art i want to see more. even the Killer 7 and No More Heroes Comics look pretty good(though i sill want to see the japanese manga version of it)

    can anyone also recommend me some western comics? i might read a thing or two ^^

    Avatar of PrinceHeir
    Comment by PrinceHeir
    18:21 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    popularity perhaps? i remember when ghost in the shell and Cowboy Bepop were getting huge in japan. guess american companies at that time wanted a piece of the pie. what about now? where are those localization they've been making in the past?

    @ i think your right about One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, and all the mainstream anime being the representation of anime itself(still today some people think anime only revolves on naruto) but after seeing those and watching/reading more anime/manga. your view widens, you tons of options to choose and so on.

    while if you read american comic one after another, you feel the genre is still the same(super hero) albeit different approach. let's say you read a series like spiderman then went to spawn(a more violent one i might add) i think the reason is that the options are just not wide enough as manga. while some are actually going in some genre(romance) i feel they're restricted because of bullshit moralist fags in america controlling what you make.

    oh well just read what you want. nobody is forcing you to go either sides.

    Avatar of TFish
    Comment by TFish
    17:49 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Yeah, there are way more american comic genre's than SuperHeros it's just the super heros are the most popular. Someone that's not really into the manga scene could say the same thing about Manga, the most popular manga at the moment are One piece, Bleach, and Naruto. Super Hero, Super Hero and Super Hero, maybe not by traditional standards but they and all other popular shonen manga are Superheros.

    Comment by Anonymous
    10:58 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)


    That was 10 years ago, when anime was breaking out in North America and companies were experimenting with the best way to market it. That sort of thing hasn't been done since then because they now know we don't want it.

    Avatar of TFish
    Comment by TFish
    05:08 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Have you ever seen the english digimon movie? It's a totally new thing, they combined 3 short movies to create it and totally rewrote the script almost.

    Comment by Anonymous
    07:40 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Are you really basing english releases on what 4kids put out? Everyone knows they are horrible and they in no way reflect what most US anime distributors put out.

    Comment by Anonymous
    04:07 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    After the Cardcaptors debacle, uncut sub only sets were released. Sailor Moon had a rocky localization full of edits, delays, and recasts, but eventually they got less retarded about the editing (although they never did acknowledge the gay characters in the show). 4kids released a series of uncut dual language Yu Gi Oh discs, but they were discontinued due to low sales. They also let their One Piece contract expire BECAUSE they realized they couldn't do it justice and still get it aired on network TV, and now Funimation has the series, and they've been steadily releasing re-dubbed uncut box sets AND streaming the series in Japanese and English. The Trust and Betrayal Samurai X OVAs were a mess (I don't know how they fucked up the pronounciation of "Tomoe") but they got much better in Reflection.

    You're absolutely right about the Tokyo Mew Mew thing though. What a clusterfuck THAT was.

    Comment by Anonymous
    01:43 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    "If American companies thought anime was "just for kids", then how did we end up with English releases of Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scroll, Vampire Hunter D, Fist of the North Star, Wicked City, Golgo 13, Berserk, Armitage, RIN, Afro Samurai..."

    Right. Now let me list off a few titles that were horribotched in translation.

    First, let's all remember what happened to Card Captor Sakura, or "Cardcaptors". Spliced episodes, plot drops, and changing the show's demographic. Sailor Moon had the same thing happen, sliced and diced. The Samurai X OVAs, oh those were PAINFUL to watch after Rurouni Kenshin was over. Then there's all the wonderful tales of 4Kids - we all remember One Piece's first run, and Shaman King got rather skewered too. Oh, and Yu-Gi-Oh. All that "shadow realm" crap? Yeah, that was because they couldn't say people were actually getting KILLED. Chobits was painful to listen to. Tokyo Mew Mew - well fuck, it didn't even last more than 20 episodes the dub was so bad. BELIEVE IT! Yeah. Oh, you mentioned Akira. Ever seen the ORIGINAL version of that? Tried listening to any of the Negima anime series recently? The female girl seiyuu sounds more like a male Negi by now than her male counterpart in the role across the ocean. List can go on and on.

    Sure, there have been some series that got it right and all. But the list of ones that didn't is staggering. When you have a success rate of less than fifty percent in your dubbing capabilities, you're doing something shittily wrong.

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:25 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    If American companies thought anime was "just for kids", then how did we end up with English releases of Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scroll, Vampire Hunter D, Fist of the North Star, Wicked City, Golgo 13, Berserk, Armitage, RIN, Afro Samurai...

    The list kind goes on. None of these titles are for children, and every single one of them were released uncut and uncensored.

    Comment by Anonymous
    12:07 28/12/2010 # ! Good (+0.8)

    I still don't get what's the importance of American companies licensing anime though; THE AMERICAN MARKET IS ONLY A FRACTION OF THE POPULATION OF THE WHOLE WORLD OUTSIDE JAPAN IDIOTS. ESSENTIALLY THOSE AMERICAN COMPANIES DON'T CATER THOSE OTHER COUNTRIES AT ALL (which combined is obviously a bigger market than either the US or Japan), HENCE THERE AREN'T EVEN ANY "LEGAL" ALTERNATIVES FOR THOSE 190+ OTHER COUNTRIES. Unless you import those licensed anime yourself, ending up paying 2-3 times more.

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:54 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    That, Sir, Something I can fully agree with.

    In my Country, they don't even have Haruhi, Shana etc.

    the only thing we have here is Naruto, Bleach, you got it.

    Avatar of Cubanoman
    Comment by Cubanoman
    11:54 28/12/2010 # ! Quality (+0.8)

    soo Share and perfect dark are full of hate and rage against the fansubs ?

    Avatar of Silver Wolf Vaden
    Comment by Silver Wolf Vaden
    11:42 28/12/2010 # ! Quality (+0.8)

    They act like they don't pirate themselves.

    Avatar of Karosene
    Comment by Karosene
    12:23 28/12/2010 # ! Quality (+1.0)

    Yar - har - fiddle-dee-dee, being a pirate is all right with me!
    Do what you want 'cause a pirate is free, you are a pirate!

    Comment by BrightSide
    11:53 28/12/2010 # ! Quality (+0.8)

    The difference is that we're gaijin pirates.

    Comment by Anonymous
    12:42 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    > The difference is that we're gaijin pirates.

    Exactly !

    And why would I care about supporting xenophobic racist japanese otakus ?

    I pirate anime as long as it exists and if the industry collapses its not because of piracy in the west but because of their own damn politicians, which those otakus cannot even bother to do something about. But I guess leaving their home and voting is asking too of for them, right ?

    As for 2ch... yeah, fuck em... I wouldn't even spit on those retards. The funny thing is they are hated and looked down upon in their own country by their own people so why should I care ?

    Something else that I find funny is that everytime I spend some time in Japan, I get more pussy in a week than any of them will see in their entire lifetime even if they went on a raping spree...

    Hahaha, 2ch I guess your women prefer dirty barbarian gaijin dicks...


    Comment by Anonymous
    12:54 28/12/2010 # ! Good (+0.7)

    The fansubber get nothing out of subbing the anime for themsevles, they can already understand anime well enough on their own, but they are doing it for free for other to see, That's some kind of dedication.

    Plus I think some fansub are better than official sub, sure there are some mistake, but the quality of sub are sometimes better (bandai's haruhi sub....OMG)....and it's done within a week..

    They keep thinking short-term that DVD is the only way to make short-sighted they are

    Avatar of TFish
    Comment by TFish
    16:25 28/12/2010 # ! Good (+0.4)

    Sweet brag brah,

    Did you just come on this site to talk about your sex life?

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:21 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)


    Pornstars are not "glorified", they are "degraded".

    This guy think he has it all but i'd say he has a mental problem.
    He is bragging here, i
    Do you need to show of to Otaku? GOD, that's pathetic.

    Anyway; I'd say his "productions" have basically the same problem, MINUS the bullshitting.

    Comment by Anonymous
    17:47 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    real sex maniac on sankaku this will be the next topic on 2ch

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:43 28/12/2010 # ! Drivel (-0.8)

    Your right, I'm just like you +1

    I get more pussy from the REAL Women(3D) then those little dick non initiative losers when I spend a day in from 18yr old fresh (legal rated Japanese girls with the OPAI they crave) without a pedo fetish/incest targeting view.

    Not only that I can go to a American strip club in my own country, socialize and get the GODDESSES they will never see wittout having $1,000,000.00 in their own bank accounts and I'm screwing them with a measly $50,000.00 year job. Why? My Dick is bigger then yours and my stamina is PORNO level. I watch anime/fansubs/buy it if I like it I'd love to take alot of these stories and put them in adult films but ya know something. I do believe in copyright protection stories. I've approached several of them in a legal business aspect with my Lawyers in the past, know what I hear?

    ------ No answer at all, I get stared down like I'm a pervert trying to help their business out in my OWN INDUSTRY on American soil. I don't care a dollar is a dollar, but I've made already 2million dollars being a Male Porn Star and getting 50,000 a year via royalties.

    Women who play, Hard to Get -Safe Women- I have sex with Globally.

    You could call them the Tsundere type, but look I tell a woman style by conversating with them. If your too afraid to say, "Want to fuck." No is no. You can't hate me for being open and honest.

    This includes Americanized women.
    Tell them your plans straight forward.

    Like I read before "Otaku's cry, complain and write on digital walls, grow some real balls."

    XY & DNA gave you them. Then use your head, and stop being lazy. Go exercise, running is free, pushups are FREE, situps are FREE?

    Change your lifestye, and you'd be surprised how many woman approach you then.. LOSERS.

    Comment by GodMan
    12:04 28/12/2010 # ! Good (+0.7)

    I'm have to side with the Fansubbers here, there are animes, that came out in 2007, finally being release in an official sub in 2010. Most of the anime I've seen are fansubbed. It takes too damn long to wait just as the fansubbers said. I'm sorry but 2-chan is just scum. I mean I'm a very deep otaku but, these guys just breaks through rock bottom to the point where they don't show respect for anime anymore.

    Avatar of softbanker
    Comment by softbanker
    11:57 28/12/2010 # ! Good (+0.7)

    Fansuubing greatly helps and promotes anime IMO. The fuck would I buy this figures and anime related goodies. if it wasn't for fansubbing I won't be even interested on it coz I can't f#%@!n understand it.

    Avatar of Yoshii-kun
    Comment by Yoshii-kun
    12:54 28/12/2010 # ! Quality (+1.0)

    Well, it's only 2chn.
    I mean, since when did we take them seriously?

    Avatar of Yuuki
    Comment by Wisteria Berlitz
    15:21 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)


    Comment by Anonymous
    22:24 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    I do. They are serious.
    If they understood the basic equation of "More sold overseas = Distibuted average cost = Cheaper anime" then the average japanese would as well.

    And that'd be the end of this, wouldn't it?


    Avatar of Majineko
    Comment by Majineko
    00:04 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    even though theyre just 2ch. i wonder if even more japanese people feel this way.

    Comment by Anonymous
    03:50 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    @ Yoshi-kun

    Agreed, man I wouldn't buy half of the figure related stuff if I knew nothing of Anime. What goes around comes around.

    Poze 2Chan doesn't understand that but I bet half of them watch Gajin Shows as well downloading it and fansubbing and we don't cry about it. Well except for DRM...

    Avatar of Knives
    Comment by Knives
    11:48 28/12/2010 # ! Good (+0.7)

    Yeah Why are they so mad? they watch it in there TV for free as well.

    Avatar of TFish
    Comment by TFish
    12:19 28/12/2010 # ! Quality (+1.0)

    Well they pay for the channel so it's not technically "free" but if they had a channel that showed ALL of the new season anime here and not just 1 show followed by a bunch of 10 year old shit I would pay for the channel and watch it there.

    As it stands I'll continue to support fansubbers.

    Avatar of Yoshii-kun
    Comment by Yoshii-kun
    12:52 28/12/2010 # ! Quality (+1.0)

    Bless'em. Seriously.

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:53 28/12/2010 # ! Quality (+1.0)

    - Recent anime are available on TV. You pay to access the TV channels.
    - You can record what's on TV with good quality to rewatch later, as many times as you want. No denying that people do this.
    - You're SURE that the episodes will be broadcasted (unless there's another "Nice Boat").
    - Want to support the series? Buy the DVDs when they're released, ditch the recorded TV episodes.

    - Recent anime are not available on TV. You pay to access the internet.
    - You can download what's available on torrents with lesser quality to rewatch later, as many times as you want. No denying that people do this.
    - You're NOT SURE that the episodes will be made available, since the people making the episodes available are NOT pros.
    - Want to support the series? Buy the DVDs when (and IF) they're released in your country, ditch the downloaded TV episodes.

    Now what, Japan?

    Avatar of Firetribe
    Comment by Firetribe
    15:52 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)



    -Recent anime are not availabe on TV <--- due to less faith in the commercial viability of TV anime.
    - You can download what's available on torrents with lesser quality to rewatch later, as many times as you want. No denying that people do this.- Free widely available product lessens it's commercial viabiltiy.
    - You're NOT SURE that the episodes will be made available, since the people making the episodes available are NOT pros. <--- No clue what this means.
    - Want to support the series? Buy the DVDs when (and IF) they're released in your country, ditch the downloaded TV episodes.<--- If a lot more people were actually doing this, no one would be complaining...and it might not be available in your country unless it's ultra-popular because noone supports the otaku stuff when they are...

    Now what, Anon?

    Avatar of TFish
    Comment by TFish
    17:34 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    I don't buy any DVDs, not for movies, not for english shows, and even if all anime were available on dvd where I live I wouldn't buy those either. DVDs are just simply worthless in my opinion, there is clearly enough commercial value in TV anime. If Fansubbers do it for free for this big of an audience just have a company buy out all fansubbing groups and put them to work on the same anime they would be doing normally but for television broadcast instead of internet. If you can stop the fansubbers by making them professionals then you solve the piracy problem.

    Also "- You're NOT SURE that the episodes will be made available, since the people making the episodes available are NOT pros. <--- No clue what this means." He meant you are never sure if the anime you think looks interesting this season will even be subbed since the groups just do whatever anime they like and it's not some regulated process.

    Comment by Anonymous
    07:14 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)


    Availability of digital products does not necessarily correlate to commercial viability. Perhaps even rarely does. Its all about access and quality.

    See mp3s vs itunes. All music is pretty much instantly available for free (piracy) on the internet... and yet itunes does pretty good business.

    Even if people wanted to buy the DVDs, they would have to exist first. Most of the time, the DVDs don't exist locally for years... at which time they are probably not wanted anymore. And to be honest, no one wants to buy DVDs where the quality of the content is shit.

    Now what?

    Avatar of Majineko
    Comment by Majineko
    23:59 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    even though shows we watch on tv is free, theres not many channels broadcasting anime at all. if we were hellbent on looking for one, we would end up having to pay for cable. even with that, theres only sci-fi..sometimes, some asian popstar channel, adult swim and....thats all i know. we have no choice but to resort to fansubs whether they like it or not.

    also theres a crapload of mecha anime, that still hasnt been released over here yet. im still waiting for zz gundam and victory gundam.

    anime dvds only sell 3 episodes per disc -_-. support, my ass

    Comment by Anonymous
    15:47 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    I see the same.

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:53 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    I was stationed in Okinawa (territory of Japan) for 3 years recently and they actually don't get many free channels. It's like here in that there are different tiers of channels depending on how much you are willing to spend.

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:46 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Last time I was in Japan TV is not free. You pay a monthly bill, if I remember right you actually get the bill whether you watch it or not (just by owning one) and they will push hard to make sure it is paid. It is not free by any means but still much cheaper than buying on disc.

    I would not count that as piracy though

    Comment by Anonymous
    18:57 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    In Portugal TV is free, we don't have to pay license

    Comment by Anonymous
    21:39 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    We still have to pay some channels, and to get basic cable. We only get 4 channels for free.

    Avatar of Hatsune Miku
    Comment by Hatsune Miku
    00:19 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Fansubbers FTW! We need them 100% all the way to even watch Anime. How the hell would we watch if they don’t support it? We gonna wait 10000 years for it to be dubbed? HELL NO!

    Comment by Anonymous
    01:38 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    You are pretty retarded to think that anything is free.

    What about the redevance? Yeah. At least.

    Avatar of BlaqCat
    Comment by BlaqCat
    01:20 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    “It’s also true that without fansubs anime wouldn’t have spread overseas like it did. And there are a lot of people like this in Japan itself.”

    At least some have not forgotten this. In truth though they've missed the point that they get to view anime on tv at no cost to themselves, which is what everyone else wants (though it's not very likely at all), thus fansubs will indeed continue (most likely forever).

    No one likes being forced to pay for something, that someone else gets for "free" after all (OAVs and movies being the exception to that).

    Comment by Anonymous
    08:44 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    I agree with this. Now here's my little dollar (since it's far more than 2 cents) and hopefully it doesn't turn into a full blown essay. XD

    The problem with most fansubbers is the fact that they often forget the main purpose of fansubbing. It's to provide something that's not readily available to viewers. That doesn't just stop in America though and that's what may other anti-fansubbing people don't understand. If it were available in more countries the download numbers would be even lower for most fansub sites. I'll admit that there are many viewers out there who'll just download and that'll be the end of it, but how is that person's actions the fault of fansubbers? Fansubbers as persecuted mainly for providing the material without most people even considering the fact that many fansubbers support the industry themselves. I'm not just talking about by subbing anime. I'm talking about actually buying products from locally available conventions and online from Japan, yet, they're being crucified for "killing the industry."

    That is bullshit. Most Americans don't even download anime anymore. They stream subbed anime on various sites. I can pretty much guarantee you that fansubbers don't want their work to end up on streaming sites, yet they end up there anyway due to irresponsible users. Can the fansubbers do anything about it? Of course not. They don't own any of the intellectual property beside the translations themselves. Fansubbers don't usually say "hey watch our anime," they generally say "watch our subs." The groups know they don't own the title and they know that what they're doing is illegal. Just remember folks, just like in the prohibition, when the product isn't readily available and demand is there a black market comes up for it.

    On another note, it's pretty funny how most fansubbers make excuses for what they do. They try to justify their illegal activities with countless used and abused reasoning that has long since been disproved. Most of them just don't want to admit that they love the attention that comes with being fansubbers. Most of them would object to that statement, but deep down they know it's true. Human nature generally dictates that people loved to be praised in some form or fashion and fansubbing is no different.

    Now everyone knows that the current system of distributing anime and manga overseas are very outdated. The problem is there's not really an easy, cheap, or quick fix for this. Buying out fansubbing groups sounds good in theory, but many fansubing groups are comprised of people from different countries. How the hell are they going to keep budget while bringing all of these people in one place to make a living? It's not going to happen. Release things online? Companies are trying that and it's been hit and miss ever since. Some series are done well and fans love it, while other series are done so poorly that people want to gouge their eyes out.

    Is there a right and a wrong here? Definitely. Most people in America itself look for speed and convenience in everything just like the rest of the world. It's the reason why fast food restaurants are so popular and why mp3's have replaced tapes and CDs. Japan is no different as far as fansubbing is concerned. They have their own fansubbers subbing western media and pirating it over there. People here don't give a damn about it because it would be the pot calling the proverbial kettle black. However these elitists who can afford their passions by sacrificing many things apparently feel they're above everyone who simply isn't able or really just doesn't want to do what they do.

    To those who actually record broadcasts to keep for themselves without a thought of distributing it... that's also a crime you know? Technically it's a crime to record a broadcast without a license to do so. Do people generally get arrested for it? Not really. People who are caught redistributing it for profit are generally the ones that are arrested. This goes back to the fact that there are many things that are tolerated by the laws in every country. Just like how marijuana in Amsterdam is not legal prior to popular belief, but it is tolerated in certain areas by the police force.

    As far as the whole quality issue goes, the jury is still out on that one. I've seen spectacular and horrible official subs and dubs and I've also seen spectacular and horrible fansubs and fandubs (yes fansubs do exist). It's all a matter of opinion and mine is that you have to take everything with a grain of salt. Official dub companies' scripts are decent, but many of their voice actors are assigned rolls that don't really fit their voices. This goes back to their budgets (there's a good interview about that on ANN) and really not hiring too many VA's without experience. They're not willing to gamble their already tight budgets on someone who hasn't been "battle-tested." If I were them, I wouldn't either, but this explains why many dubs sound a bit off compared to their Japanese counterparts.

    Fan distributed services and big companies have different motivation for what they do. The former is in it because they usually enjoy what they do and just feel like doing it, and the latter does it for profit. One general rule of business is that the cheaper you produce the more profit to be made in the end. There are too many grey areas on both sides of the coin to have a clear cut view on the industry besides the "he-say she-say" bullshit. Neither job is easy and the only thing that's generally the same in my opinion is that both are generally unrewarding because of the anti factions on both ends.

    Damn, this really did turn into a mini essay. Damn you college look what you did to me!!!

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:08 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Anon @ 08:44:
    "To those who actually record broadcasts to keep for themselves without a thought of distributing it... that's also a crime you know? Technically it's a crime to record a broadcast without a license to do so."

    Actually, if their DVR/recording equipment is anything like ours, then they technically have a license to record it.

    For example: Most US Satellite companies (Dish Network, DirecTV, etc.) have a $5.00 monthly fee for simply -having- the DVR unit in your home. There's no other explanation for this fee. The only thing I've managed to research, with any solid facts or evidence, is that this fee is simply to pay for the royalties and licensing that allow a given subscriber to record a given show on their networks.

    Comment by Anonymous

    Since when is TV free??

    Comment by Pyrolight
    11:57 28/12/2010 # ! Quality (+0.9)

    Free, no.

    100x cheaper then buying dvd/Bluerays, yes.

    Avatar of Yoshii-kun
    Comment by Yoshii-kun
    12:47 28/12/2010 # ! Quality (+0.9)

    Pirates pointing at pirates = Priceless.

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:30 28/12/2010 # ! Good (+0.8)

    @DiamondDust I don't think they care/know the extent of the ban.

    Comment by Anonymous
    11:56 28/12/2010 # ! Good (+0.8)

    It is ad supported. Still free for the watchers.

    Avatar of Marine-RX179
    Comment by Marine-RX179
    14:24 28/12/2010 # ! Quality (+0.8)

    Dumb 2ch-ers. Anime producers hardly make much money on anime being broadcasted on TV...they make money on the "anime related goods" (and DVD/BD is just part of it), which we do open up our wallet again and again to buy.

    And what's with their logic anyway? It's not like they are buying every DVD/BD of shows they've seen on TV themselves. I'd love to see how they would react if their TV station stop broadcasting anime altogether, and the only mean of them to watch anime is to buy the DVD/BD, or go "pirate" to see if they can still act so high and mighty about it. This pretty much sums it up:

    “Japanese regional anime otaku: ‘The regional stations are to blame for not broadcasting any anime! We have to use video sharing sites, it’s our last resort!’

    Me: ‘What about ATX?’ [a premium anime channel available nation-wide]

    Natives: ‘…’”

    12:37 28/12/2010 # ! Quality (+0.8)

    @johnhayabusa Shouldn't they be bashing Ishihara, cause i'm still pissed about the ban.

    Avatar of Kwonnie
    Comment by Kwonnie
    12:22 28/12/2010 # ! Quality (+0.8)

    If they pirated our cartoons, I'm pretty sure none of us would give a shit in the slightest.

    Besides, they act like people don't record stuff and watch it over and over in their own spare time. Why is fansubbing so different? They just hate foreigners, honestly...

    Avatar of Gogetters
    Comment by Gogetters
    12:06 28/12/2010 # ! Quality (+0.8)

    Cannot get fansubs without the internet and we have to pay to get the internet. Oh look it's the same as the TV only better.

    Comment by Anonymous
    12:07 28/12/2010 # ! Good (+0.8)

    The amount of ignorance in those comments is staggering. I absolutely do not see any difference in downloading a fansub and watching+recording the anime as it's being broadcasted. Either way you end up with high-quality digital copy with the logo of the TV station somewhere in the corner, and if you like the show enough you buy the DVDs once they're out. If there is a flaw in my logic, please point it out to me.

    I won't even bother trying to sum up the ridiculously huge amount of ¥ I spent on importing figures/dakimakura/other merchandise of shows that haven't even been licensed here and don't stand a snowball's chance in hell to ever be...

    Comment by John Hayabusa
    12:28 28/12/2010 # ! Good (+0.7)

    Stupid 2ch. Just go bash some fujoshis, alright?

    Avatar of NeverSleep
    Comment by NeverSleep
    14:58 28/12/2010 # ! Good (+0.7)

    Yoshii-kun -"Pirates pointing at pirates = Priceless."

    Pretty much the discussion was settled at Silver Wolf Vaden comment on top of this page, but this one was stronger.

    Hypocrisy, oh, how I love this drama.

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:02 28/12/2010 # ! Good (+0.7)

    1. 90% of the time, official subs are worse than fansubs
    2. Anime DVDs and especially BDs are ridiculously expensive (I would pay 60€ for a 24-ep series, not for 1/6th of it)
    3. Even if you do buy a DVD or BD the foreign (in practice, US) publishers waste their profits on making horrible dubs.
    4. Around where I live, it is a wonder to even find any anime DVDs or BDs.
    Thus I watch fansubs.

    Comment by Anonymous
    12:13 28/12/2010 # ! Good (+0.6)

    not on all countries you pay for tv, here tv is free aswell, and here only really famous anime are shown, like naruto... and it's delayed like 300 episodes...

    there's no anime market here, and i'm not going to sell an arm just to import a couple of them, so yeah, you can call it piracy all you want, until i don't get a viable legal way of getting the anime i want i'll downloaded it...

    sure, just keep blaming the fansubbers of stealing their money, while i'll keep blaming their strategy of selling overseas with their stupid dubs and crappy qualities... you know, the ones that i can't buy -_-

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:38 28/12/2010 # ! Good (+0.6)

    “They refuse to learn Japanese – just look at all the Japanese who learn English to watch their films. What spoilt brats.”

    Ahahaha, foul argument. "all the Japanese" is really the minority. Also, a lot of the Japanese youth use niconico or other streaming sites to watch anime that already aired.

    Comment by Anonymous
    14:13 28/12/2010 # ! Good (+0.6)

    If the manga and anime companies in Japan worked more closely with the foreign companies, I bet you the sells of both would rise enormously. More money for everyone and that is what all the companies want anyway. Japan's manga and anime industries know that there are 3 times more reader and viewer than all of Japan. They just need to get of there asses and start collaborating.

    Comment by Anonymous
    14:12 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.4)

    in japan, you do pay to watch tv. ever if you dont watch it, you still have to pay.

    Avatar of NeverSleep
    Comment by NeverSleep
    15:35 28/12/2010 # ! Good (+0.4)


    I have to agree with you. People don't buy it here for god know why reasons. But whatever, we're not killing THEIR market, but ours.

    Comment by Kudeh
    17:18 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)


    "2)thats what they pay for 2 episodes. meaning that you are paying 1/12 what they pay for the whole series"

    And it's still five times what you'd pay for a series of The Simpsons or any other American programme. Do the Japanese have a word for "rip-off"?

    "4)online, buy online."

    Not all websites ship to all countries. And when a website does ship, you can expect the price to double and the package to take a month to arrive. God help you if it's ero or even slightly risqué; it won't get through customs and you'll run the risk of being thrown in prison under anti-loli laws.

    Like the Japanese otaku, you fail to understand that buying anime isn't as easy for everyone else as it is for you. Downloading isn't just the cheapest way to get anime for some people; it's sometimes the only practical way to get it.

    Comment by Anonymous
    17:09 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    I love this.

    My favorite example?

    Ah! Megumi-Sama
    Oh! My Goddess!

    I've seen volumes 1-28. I know that Japan is up to 36+. I can't get anything beyond 29 last I checked (and I haven't bothered reading it again)


    Because I had the opportunity to read fan scans with translation and Dark Horse did not even sell #29 while Japan was on 36+.

    Now it has been a few years. But I bet that that the Dark Horse comics are still years behind because they are that pathetic with releases.

    Avatar of Uncommon0taku
    Comment by Uncommon0taku
    17:08 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    You can't buy something if it isn't available in dvd.

    The problem with the majority of dvd's with english subs is that thier own translators - "don't know how to translate" worth a bloody damn.

    There are too many nuances & subtleties of modern Japanese and modern english, not to mention that there is English english and American english that complicates the whole barrel of mushrooms.

    If an anime producer doesn't invest in doing it right, the english speaking consumer is going to feel ripped off and let down. Which leaves them to what else. The fansubbers.

    The problem is Japan's own anime industry's racial biases. They're naturally xenophobic to anyone else that isn't Japanese. So the export market suffers in the short term.

    There wouldn't have to be any fansubbers, if the industry provided decent service and appreciated the fans overseas.

    Its just a catch 22 situation.

    It really sucks - even some of the fansubbers don't know what the fuck they're doing when they rush a rush job. They take the contexts and really screw them up sometimes.

    o__0 *

    I've read the novels and I have the dvd's for the 12 kingdoms. the producers verson of english subs - got the most of it wrong with piss poor translations.
    The only way to enjoy the anime is to watch the fansubbed version, if you want to watch it "in context" with the original authors novels.

    meh - I guess it shows that I'm more the bookworm than yur typical otaku.

    Comment by Anonymous
    17:35 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    That's because for every 10,000 fans of the Simpsons, there's 1 anime fan domestically.

    The Simpsons have PROVEN to be popular, anime fandom is on a smaller scale.

    Comment by Anonymous
    21:00 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    I've paid $103.00 (EMS 5-7 Days) shipping from Japan to the US for a bulk order of DVDs. I could have taken that $103.00 and bought THREE complete season blurays w/ $3.00 shipping from RightStuf.

    Never again, never again.

    Comment by Anonymous
    20:04 30/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Ok guys I'm gonna have a second say in this.

    What is stated in the article is the wrong type of response. There is nothing wrong in fansubbing something that is Free in TV in Japan and viceaversa for Western Shows. I don't believe in this bullshit that since its in Japan for Free or US for Free it should be paid. I MEAN COME ON GUYS FFS DON'T YOU HAVE TV NETWORKS SHOWING PAST SHOWS YOU MISSED?

    If this was the CASE why do they SHOW Dragon Ball Z on TV etc, however DVD/BD versions is another matter.

    Common Sense was missed here. There was a ball thrown at the GLOVE and you didn't catch it.

    IF you like the TV show in question or want to support it you buy the DVD/BD with extras which has always been included in both JAPAN and the US. I just don't see the kneejerk smart ass response they play it on TV for free in both US and JAPAN and they both get subbed whats wrong with that?

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:40 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Perhaps if a fully functioning company decides to get their balls together an actually show better quality and fansub, both in punctuality and video quality, then perhaps we will even think of buying them.

    As much as 2ch and most of us consumers are "stealing" from the business, as far as I see it the companies aren't doing a good job enough to get even paid.

    Avatar of Rayearth Minako Kinezono
    16:38 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)


    ...when a website does ship, you can expect the price to double and the package to take a month to arrive...

    Granted, I'm in the US, where it might be a bit easier to get stuff - but whenever I order stuff from Japan, it usually take about 12-15 days (via SAL) to reach me, and I've yet to have a shipping charge that was more than $15USD.

    Not exactly breaking the bank or waiting eons to get it, but the numbers people constantly throw out often seem far exaggerated to me.

    However, I do realize that not everywhere is as efficient or easy to have stuff mailed to them.

    Like the Japanese otaku, you fail to understand that buying anime isn't as easy for everyone else as it is for you.

    Oh, I'm quite aware of how difficult it is. But you make choices and some sacrifices to buy what you want.

    Downloading isn't just the cheapest way to get anime for some people; it's sometimes the only practical way to get it.

    Cheapest? Sure. Practical? Debatable. Either way - it's still just as illegal as walking into a store and taking something off the shelf and walking out without paying.

    The internet has made people feel that they are entitled to something. Well, I'm not against all that, but stealing to get what you want because someone in Japan won't let you legally buy it? I wouldn't be happy about it, but I wouldn't go about taking it from them.

    Money talks. Buy what you like, and avoid the trash. Eventually the distributors will get the hint.

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:32 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    If you actually looked at the total downloads for anime you would see that it can't be piracy which is the problem. Popular shows like Naruto and Bleach have drastically reduced downloads since they started simultaneous broadcasts on Crunchyroll. I did a quick check and Naruto Shippuuden went from a peak of almost 1 million downloads to around 100,000 downloads after the simulcasts started and Bleach went from around 600,000 downloads to about 60,000 downloads at the start of the simulcasts time.

    Comment by Anonymous
    23:25 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    -I call this comment on complete bullshit. ~90% of Hollywood DVDs are subtitled, and a lot are even dubbed to Japanese too.

    Avatar of alidan
    Comment by alidan
    03:35 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)


    it costs that much because they have a small fanbase that can support an entire industry with next to no large fan base.

    something like the tv anime is just an extended advertisement, unlike in america where they make most there money off the tv version, anime recupes the cost in dvd bd. you can argue that lower prices would get more people buying it, but it wont, because what you are treated like when people know you like anime. only the hardcore are willing to take those risks.

    and as for number 4, yea it may take time and a bit more money, but you are bitching you cant find them. i have some experience in buying actual illegal things over the net, shit thats way harder to get than anime, but its still the same. its all about knowing who is selling it, and finding multipul sources.

    now loli laws don't come into effect for every loli, there is only a minute fraction of anime that could get your ass in trouble, and if you really want them, well buyer beware. buy the simple fact is, dont buy those.

    Comment by Anonymous
    03:45 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    I disagree with the Japanese Stance.

    Movies now are going pretty cheap around Australia/America say about $30 AUS for an entire season on Seinfield etc and even imported ones are going cheaply nowadays but what about Anime?

    Anime is pretty static in price they still remain $60 for a series regardless whether its good or not, this goes against the trend and no one will ever buy this up.

    Avatar of Firetribe
    Comment by Firetribe
    15:22 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)


    It's not solely about piracy. They are complaining about how westerners mostly pirate stuff and buy very little. I'm sure they pirate too, but who's anime industry has shrunk the most?

    Avatar of toyNN
    Comment by toyNN
    15:11 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    People should just pirate really doesn't matter..oh wait..we are talking about China right?

    Avatar of POKI
    Comment by POKI
    08:21 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (-0.2)

    2ch crying again?... that's all they can do lol.

    someone upload a zip.

    Avatar of Firetribe
    Comment by Firetribe
    16:31 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (-0.3)


    They're not talking about killing markets, they are talking about the absurdity of people trying to justify an illegal act - which fansubbing is.

    Avatar of alidan
    Comment by alidan


    i have to point this shit out

    1) different, yes, worse, not in recent years. the problem is they translate it in a way we don't like, or would prefer it differently.
    2)thats what they pay for 2 episodes. meaning that you are paying 1/12 what they pay for the whole series
    3)they havent been that bad in recent years, but i prefer to not have them. granted, if its a choice between subs that i dont like the translation of or listening to it in english, ill chose english
    4)online, buy online.

    Avatar of King Tiger
    Comment by King Tiger
    12:15 28/12/2010 # ! Good (+0.4)

    its funny how 2ch bitch about piracy when they are no different with western goods :p

    hey 2ch! you mad?

    Avatar of TFish
    Comment by TFish
    12:23 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    It's totally true though, I mean do they think about who's giving out the anime to foreigners in the first place? I'm not sure how someone in england would just randomly have a digital copy of Bakuman without help on the Japanese front.

    Comment by Anonymous
    11:55 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.4)

    Yeah, offer some foreign material for them for outrageous prices and check if they won't "pirate". Unfortunately good foreign material is rare these days so they have the lead u.u

    Comment by Anonymous
    05:49 30/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Actually, I'm not American. I'm telling that based on what I see in my own country, American content and varied cable tv stuff from a few hundred channels that airs even stuff from countries that you'd twist your tongue to say their names.

    You see, I'm a fan of sci-fi, medieval fantasy (include here fairies, dragons, whatever and even plain boring medieval dudes fighting with their might human strength) and comedies. Europe tends to fail here (rly, I fail to find even good comedies there). America has been failing hard here. My own country is a damn joke in content production. And I love animated stuff.

    And thus I turned my attention to anime and although Japanese animation has seen better days it still pleases me a lot. And unfortunately, those evil fansubs tend to give very little attention to real good comedies to the point I watch incredibly sh!.tty encodes from your-mom to be able to see it till the end.

    Oh they show anime here in my country, if you consider POKEMON an anime. But then there was Full Metal Alchemist (new release huh?) and it got me interested but damn it, I work and I can't be watching it in the middle of the day or late at night and I can't record too because copyright is a b!.tch.

    Ok, let's buy the original DVDs/BDs with amazing FOUR episodes each and $80 (o come on, US dollar is just 1 dollar for every 2 of my currency and you don't have to eat or pay your electricity/phone/internet bills anyway, just buy all the 8 DVDs/BDs already)..

    Enough rant right? No. Stop thinking as if the world was America and earned money as America. If even America finds it hard to buy overpriced Japanese stuff then what the fack am I supposed to do?

    Jesus. Sorry Sankaku, I got kind of mad...

    Comment by Anonymous

    "Unfortunately good foreign material is rare these"

    I know you are probably American and don't understand but there's a whole ton of countries that make really good TV series and movies sadly it's not available to many other places so it also gets pirated, Japanese just seem to hate on foreigners more then any other country.

    Avatar of TFish
    Comment by TFish
    17:38 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    I know you are probably European and extremely pretentious but he clearly was talking about Japan only, why he said foreign instead I'm not sure but he obviously was only talking about Japanese exports.

    Comment by Anonymous
    10:48 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    im pretty sure south korea is just saying

    Comment by Anonymous
    03:47 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    To be honest how many other countries are xenophoic as Japan except for China none!!!

    Comment by Anonymous
    08:18 06/01/2011 # ! Neutral (0)

    China's okay, he just hates Japan for what they did in WW2

    but look at Japan, they hate almost everyone who shares a boarder with them. Not to mention 2ch crawling with imperialist wannabies who spend their day masturbating over the rebirth of the great Japanese empire ruling the world

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:26 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    The Japanese never pirate anything.

    Also, when they shit, it smells of roses.

    Comment by Anonymous
    20:32 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    One thing... In reality, without things like anime fansubs, or manga scanlations, most of the popular anime would never have sold overseas. For eg, 1 of the big 3, One Piece only managed to enter Singapore 'cos of popularity due to scans and fansubs. I'm not too sure about the rest, but I think I can safely say that... there are many more anime and manga out there that would never have sold... without the assistance of fansubs and scans.

    On one note.. I'd like to point out that... yeah, sure... fansubs can be equivalent to piracy. But... to many others who lack the finances to enjoy it... I don't think it's right to completely deprive them of it. Besides, not all otaku over the world are like Japanese otaku... free to leech of their parents forever. Also, those otaku in regions where anime isn't aired torrent and download anime as well... So... as much as they hate it... (live with it? what else can you do?)

    Comment by Anonymous
    22:15 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    You know... hire the fansubbers? Translate it, and boardcast the anime into internet TV with ads?

    there, equal standing and world peace, what more can you ask for? :<

    Avatar of DieHardjagged
    Comment by DieHardjagged
    21:49 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Well, they (2ch) are pointing their finger to other people (Subbers), but in fact we all know that they also pirate stuff.
    How shallow.

    Comment by Anonymous
    21:36 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    In a some old manga, a lot of characters are recording TV shows into a Video tape. Isn't this too a pirating?

    Comment by Anonymous
    10:15 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    It goes both ways. The tards love shows like south park and fan sub them in mass (also have a horrendously bad dub that they admit is horrendous also, cough cough) anyways.

    Only difference is we don't rely on sunday night cartoons to support our life/economy like the japanese..

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:39 29/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    And so the cycle begins once again on 2ch hating on the Engrish folk once more. Although we like to watch the same series that airs in Japan, and some of those shows never even make it becuase of the raunchiness that some of these series have. Either that, or they aren't mainstream like most of the Jump series.

    Heck even getting an series you like fansubed is considered as a God-send since you're never sure if a certain series has what it takes to be brought over or not.

    Comment by Anonymous
    11:59 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Seriously they pirate our shows as well. 2ch are a bunch of hypocritical bastards. The only reason they buy their own anime is because they are so obsessed with the culture they have to buy the disc to get those bonuses, ala dakimakura, keychain thingies, wallpapers, etc ,etc... If the anime was just the disc I doubt they would buy it. They would just download it, burn it, and then use an imaging software to give it the "illusion" of a retail copy just like people do for games on all the consoles.

    Also maybe I just suck at reading comprehension but the interviewers(fansubbers) didn't say that they would pirate the stuff no matter what. They just said it's their only option atm. I'm sure fansubbers still support the company by buying the discs upon release or even importing them. Hell a lot of anime people not from Eastern nationality do that. They download the fansubs and then purchase the imported version, and sometimes even get the US version.

    Once 2ch sees the words piracy they immediately start hounding without actually looking at the full story. They immediately relate Westerners = pirates, when a lot of people don't do that. Or they may pirate first then buy. Also again the fansubbers never said anything along the lines of "HAHAHA we pirate and we will never buy a retail copy, MUHAHAHAHA!" They simply said it's their only option, but they didn't exactly say they don't buy the retail copy after the fact. 2Ch just assumed that. Anime fans may use fansubs but they buy the retail copy for their personal collection. So they get the best of both worlds.

    Also again I guarantee most of those idiots that were quoted do in fact pirate western movies so they are hypocrites.

    Avatar of Moshi
    Comment by Moshi
    14:36 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

    2ch is a reflection of Japanese society. Ipso facto, it's rather foolish to refer to the "bunch of them" as being hypocritical. Take note of the fact that there are boards like "Illegal Drugs" "Animal Haters" "Downloads" which the average 2channeller (as represented in the 2 most popular boards, "News Flash" and "Vip") criticize, if not outright despise.

    Yes, I rather agree that there is a rather idiotic "Pirate=Do-no-good thieves" thing going on. However, you have to keep in mind of the fact that anime otaku is a MINORITY (albeit much better represented than in RL) in 2ch. One shouldn't expect much of an educated response from a group of fans that see their beloved industry as waning, in a forum that advocates quickness and wittyness above all else, and cannot set foot in the foreigners' eyes for "they think differently because we are a unique niche in a unique country".Thus, they will be quick to denounce most kinds of piracy, as demonstrated by the hatred towards DS "backup" ROMs.

    Also, please take note of the fact that half of the Japanese population do not live in either of the three major metropolitan areas, and so get minimal (1-2 per year in my prefecture) anime. What's more, we can't access websites with legal fansubbing of anime, because Japanese IPs are blocked (for obvious reasons). Indeed, internet broadcasting of anime has become increasingly widespread lately, as represented by Nicovideo, but this is a week after the original broadcast. Don't think you foreigners are the only ones having to resort to alternative measures to get your anime fix, mmkay?

    Avatar of TFish
    Comment by TFish
    16:30 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    I'm sure people don't really think all Japanese have access to all anime Moshi, it's just some peoples tempers get flared up when they're called out for participating in the thing they love. In this case watching anime that has to be pirated. No offense to you or any other person that has to step outside legal boundaries to get the things they love, 2ch just instantly gets on everyones nerves.

    Comment by Anonymous
    12:33 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    seriously people, it's only 2ch
    noone cares what they think or say.
    let them be buttmad, business as usual

    Avatar of torappu
    Comment by torappu
    19:07 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Indeed, in the end we still won't give a shit about what China's bitches think.

    Avatar of washuotaku
    Comment by washuotaku
    12:03 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Your right, I know peeps in Japan who have to download episodes themselves because they don't get certain anime broadcasts because a majority only air in Tokyo.

    I'm sure several on 2ch do exactly what I mention and think nothing of it. I'm sure there are also people on 2ch that record the shows, help translate, then distribute the shows for the rest of us.

    God bless you all hypocritical bastards on 2ch, we still love ya. ^_^

    Comment by Anonymous
    13:41 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)


    Comment by Anonymous
    15:46 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    just to say, the animes which are "stolen" are from TV. which means, nobody has directly paid for it. so it's wrong to say they have to buy it. they could record the tv shows too. -.-".. of course I can little bit understand them, because most people would say, If I don't have to pay to watch it, why should i buy it?

    1. then this people are "casual" watchers, they would watch the anime one time and that's it.
    2. the industry of japan anime lives from otakus and not from "good" buyers, which means otakus would buy it, anyway they saw it already without costs.
    3. the industry has not much to do with the other country, they only give the country the "licence" to sell it, so if we would "hurt" someone, then it is the own country, but..
    4. (like myself) people who liked a specify anime very much, would buy it after watching it, because they want support it and are pride to have a little diamond in their home.

    @hollywood movies in japan, they do it. they do it 100% too and I think its the same like in the other countries, but the difference between "stealing" a hollywood movie and an anime is, the movie isn't first in the TV, which could look everyone, with only pay the normal costs, but the anime is it. (except the OVA, that is something different in this topic)

    thats my opinion to it.

    Comment by Anonymous
    16:24 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (0)

    Well, I guess one could make the argument that they 'pay' for a show by buying goods in advertising. Still, those idiots are off their rocker. If not for fansubbers there wouldn't be a huge anime and manga following in the west. It's largely through the consumption of anime, manga, and games that Americans know as much about Japanese culture as they do. It's even inspired people to learn the language. Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

    Avatar of Bigall
    Comment by Bigall
    12:51 28/12/2010 # ! Neutral (-0.2)

    Oh don't worry, with the tokyo ban, they will also start pirating. Then they will understand.

    Comment by Anonymous

    piracy=engaging in acts of criminal violence/robbery at sea...

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