Visual Kei vs Vocaloids: “Miku Isn’t Real Music!”

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A visual kei band member denouncing Hatsune Miku and the other Vocaloids as “not being real music” has prompted outrage amongst Miku’s legion of devoted followers.

The visual kei band (essentially Japanese style glam/gothic rock marketed to women on the basis of visual appeal) in question is “The GazettE,” considered highly popular for a visual kei outfit.

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Group member “Aoi” tweeted to his 40,000 followers about how threatened he feels by Miku and company:

I don’t like to say this but I’m not happy seeing listeners and magazines treat Vocaloid stuff as real “[artistic] works.”

It’s certainly marvellous technology, but if you are satisfied with that there’s no point in us making music. I could go so far as to say it makes what we’re doing nothing but masturbation.

People who treat mere machines like that as being equal to artists are crazy.

This immediately provoked outrage amongst Vocaloid fans, and rather than stand and face their indignation he apparently deleted the Tweet and fled, although by this time it was too late and Vocaloid fans from far and wide were piling in on the fight.

2ch’s reaction is mixed:

He’s right!

Yes, right.

No idea who he is but he speaks the truth.

Mikutards are going crazy…

He’s pretty pompous for a cheap knock off of Dir En Grey.

Is he criticising Vocaloids or their songs?

If he’s just going to delete and run he should have kept his mouth shut.

What the hell is this guy about? Fancies himself an artiste? Get out of it.

Can we call this guy’s stuff “works” either?

A popular visual kei band you say? I’ve never heard of them.

They’re both trash.

Visual kei is the same sort of thing as Vocaloids. I can do without either.

You visual kei idiots are the same. Your songs are worthless and you are judged on looks alone.

Vocaloids are “works”? They’re just instruments…

He’s just bothered about being beaten by a machine. Just admit it.

Visual kei is a desecration of music.

Why is it celebs always self-destruct as soon as they get a Twitter account?

They’re both just as creepy as each other.

Making a name for yourself by dissing Vocaloids is pretty simple to pull off it seems.

This is like an artist saying CG art isn’t real art. If it has fans it’s real.

Some self-proclaimed artiste is the equal of Miku – what a joke!

Aoi vs Miku:

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531 Comments

  • Did it not occur to him that some people might like Vocaloid music AND non-vocaloid music? Vocaloids were originally marketed as an instrument, just like a guitar or a drum kit. The people producing musical works using the vocaloid instrument are no less worthy of artistic recognition than any other musician. If people enjoy listening to an electronic voice, it has as much merit as a human voice, just as an electric guitar has as much merit as an acoustic guitar. Machines being treated as equal to humans is a different argument, and while it is a valid point, he shouldn’t have tried to use it to undermine the talent of Vocaloid producers.

  • Anonymous says:

    He’s in a visual kei band…
    He is basically a vocaloid himself, someone elses tool for making music, but with an overinflated ego.

    Wait, that’s not entirely true… The people who make music through him are mainly in it for the money, while the people who use Vocaloids quite often just want to make music.

    In conclusion, this instrument, or if I may, musical Tool, should go back to pumping out his bland, pointless music until his fans tire of him, his producers abandon him and he ends up selling his body for crack.

    That said, the Vocaloid fans should go back to their overly specialiced (And thereby limited) synthesizers, and keep making their equaly droll, but at least heartfelt music, and stop pretending that they matter.

  • Anonymous says:

    LOL just noticed that all the pro vk comments get thumbs down… honestly guys, if people aren’t allowed to voice their opinions, then seriously, thats just oppression.
    Honestly, live wise, I dislike watching miku live. Sure there is a band playing the background but thats all it ever is, just the background, while everyone stares at CG Miku, which is seamless and effortless.
    I enjoy watching Gazette Dvds because you can see how much effort they put into their show, how tired they get after 1.5 hours + 1 hour encore.
    To me, watching Miku live Dvds is just like watching it over and over again just in different views.
    Watching Gazette live Dvds, you can see how they try to make it their best show.
    If you like Miku, then I’m okay with that, but honestly it makes MY (EMPHASIS) ears bleed. But people say that real people make Miku’s music, but really who are they? Most people cite that its made by who her songs are from, but don’t really know who.
    I listened to po pi po or w/e and world is mine, they are just selling her. There’s no lyrical heart in it. Po pi po is about selling vegetable juice, wheres the love in that? World is mine makes Miku a arrogant, self righteous bitch. There, I said it, thumb this down, but you know I’m right

  • I wasnt really too keen on this whole Miku concert stuff to begin with, I watched the video I saw in the news and I could bear to really watch it , it just came off as one of those borderline of man and machine or in this case musican and machine controversies. I’m honestly disappointed morrally speaking that it is done because you would think from all the man and machine bordered stories that have been created in the last 30 years people would know better than to attempt it in the first place. I rather go to a concert where its a real person, there is more to enjoy. With the miku thing you’re just seeing a pre-rendered playback of a computer generated character. If I wanted computer animation I’d watch TV or a movie.

  • ugh
    stop hating on visual kei or the gazette.
    hate on aoi.
    just because aoi doesn`t like miku doesn`t mean you should hate the band that hes in.
    aoi was just expressing his feelings,you don`t need to make such a big fuss that you have to insult the WHOLE music genre of visual kei unless your really obsessed with vocaloids.
    i admit that vocaloid music is nice, their songs have alot of meaning and they enable NORMAL people who have song writing abilities but don`t have singing abilities to make songs.
    Vocaloid lovers, just stick to what you love.don`t hate on visual kei just because of 1 dumb comment.
    I myself LOVE visual kei , but i like vocaloid songs too.

  • lol the funny thing is i heard Miku for the first time on a fanmade video featuring an animated version of GazettE’s lovely guitarist Uruha.. the song is Ievan Polkka and i had no idea it was supposed to be a ‘girl”s (that is Miku’s) voice ..cause it sounded so funny in a retarded way ..To be honest i thought a guy was mimicking a girl and singing.. Miku’s voice is something I’d enjoy dancing to if i was in Kindergarten ..

    And i never expected Aoi’s comment would create such a big issue really o_O ..I thought most GazettE-fans were rabid and overreacted these days but nah~ i guess i was wrong..

    Aoi has no problems with the songs..at least since he didn’t say ‘the vocaloids’ songs suck!’ so that’s that. The first impression i got was he thinks it’s absurd that Miku , (i mean Miku the image , the one with the short skirt otakus fap to ,not the ones creating the music) is compared with performing artists.. and he didn’t even know much about vocaloids when he said that..so it was best ignoring what he said instead of making a big deal out of it sheesh~

    I have no problems with Miku ..just like i have no problems with any of the artists i am not interested in…but why do fans have to be sooooooo fucking annoying =_= ?

    ‘A popular visual kei band you say? I’ve never heard of them.’ and im glad most people haven’t heard of them..that’s a good sign for the band considering the fact how most popular artists are so shallow these days. At least GazettE’s vocalist tries to write meaningful lyrics . I hate this fan-ego really~ why can’t some fans accept the fact that not everyone will like your idol? I don’t like Miku..big deal…i don’t hate her..but just NOT interested. People don’t like v-kei ..ok fine it’s their business.. Why do fans have to make a big deal out of everything? Just cause one guy said he doesn’t find it fair how Miku= artists who perform live.. why make it V-kei VS Vocaloid??? It’s not even Aoi VS Miku lol cause i know the Gaze is doing well in their jobs..too well actually ^—-^ The idea of ‘threat’ is lolworthy.. popularity doesn’t mean it’s better. by now aoi has most probably forgotten about the whole thing .. maybe Vocaloid creators don’t give a damn on what he said either cause im sure they have heard these kinda remarks before.. It’s only the ‘fans’ making the fuss.. and the only reason i commented is cause the comment-boxes were full of sooo much blessedness and ignorance , I couldn’t help it~
    Aoi is a faggot just cause he wears makeup? lol i thought people were more open minded these days..but nah~ i guess people will be as boring as ever *yawn*

  • Well, said “It’s a robot who sing, it’s not music” it’s a real argument ?
    And music produced by computer like Electro is Fake Music too, because it’s the sound of a machine ?
    Damn, his vision of the music of this guyz is very retarded.

  • I don’t see what the big deal is. Both are still music. Don’t judge gazette by their looks. I find their music to be good while the other visual kei bands are trash, really. :/

    People are just fascinated and awestruck by Miku cause of the art. Imagine she didn’t have her looks now. LOL. Try and picture an art of fat girl with bikinis and green pigtails singing World is Mine.

    Think no one will like that eh?

    But believe me, most of the group listen and only endure the songs not be cause of her voice, but cause of her art.

    I personally dislike Miku’s voice. Too mechanical and so fake. When used with the songs created for her to “sing”, it sounded like noise in my ears. >_>

    I love the covers done by Nico Nico Singers though. They sound much more nicer. <3

    So it's not fair to just judge Gazette like this. :/

  • And jealousy becouse theyre beated by program?….
    yes,theyre not real,but person who work with them are real for sure ^^ …
    Vocaloid/utauloid or whatever are just device/tool for some1 to make/present music or whatever he want…

    So if those guys wanna that hear this way …in the worst way theyre are “just” beated by “unknown punks” who are just “hiding” behind image of one those characters …in the good way theyre are beated by skilled guy who make those things “just4fun once period of time” …

  • Okay, I like VK and I like Vocaloid.
    Sorry Gazette, I don’t like your stuff I still prefer Malice Mizer. Sorry Miku, I don’t dig you’re voice too much. Kaito got to me though.

    It sort of annoys me that a lot of times the great producers end up not having as much credit as their Vocaloids, or another way to say it, instruments. Miku is popular, Vocaloid is on the rise and I it sorta pains me to see a song, want it and sometimes not see the name of the producer behind it. I’m that person who likes to give credit to the P’s works.

  • And Dir En Grey sucks and is a cheap knockoff of Malice Mizer and everything before them. To top it off, I’ve known two people who worship them religiously, and both are fucking wretches that can hardly be called human.

    Anyhow, I came into this expecting to dislike Gazette as much as Vocaloids (who I might actually like if they didn’t sound like high pitched warbly bullshit). Instead, he’s right on the money. Also impossible to be worse than Dir En Grey.

  • If you guys hate Visual Kei so much I’d suggest you check out Golden Bomber, the best parody VK band out there. Memeshikute is a great song/PV.

    But Visual Kei isn’t all bad. It’s true, current VK is in a dire state, but it wasn’t always so. X JAPAN and BUCK-TICK for example are EXTREMELY talented bands starting in the 90s and still going today (10 years after disbanding in X’s cases). X JAPAN specializes mostly in the metal genre while BUCK-TICK is very versatile rock, sometimes sounding akin to Depeche Mode or Echo and the Bunnymen. Overall, BT’s styles have included post-punk, new wave, gothic rock, industrial, electronica, and straight up rock and roll (as stated by Wikipedia).

    YOSHIKI, the drummer-lyricist-writer-pianist of the X JAPAN band is classically trained and plays both drums and piano for the band through recording and on stage. He has also made classical albums and performed for the emperor of Japan at his request.

    As for current times, MIYAVI (an independent Visual artist) is an almost otherworldly god at guitar often referred to as the Samurai Guitarist. He’s known for his unique sound and difficult slap-guitar style. His sound ranges from acoustic, blues inspired rock (like the infinitely popular Selfish Love), pop, straight up rock, hip hop rock (check out BOOM-HAH-BOOM-HAH-HAH), and a mixture of numerous other genres.

    Another one worth noting is Versailles (fully known as Versailles Philharmonic Quartet due to name complications with another band). They are full blown ‘melodic’ metal (metal with a classical influence)– twin guitars, amazing double-bass drums, awesome bass and powerful vocals. Their costumes are insane. They’re more of a ‘themed’ Visual Kei band instead of strictly VK, basing their look off of 18th century France.

    You see, despite how popular or unpopular a genre may be, there are always duds amongst the diamonds and diamonds amongst the duds. Sometimes you just have to sift through the pile of garbage, and I can understand why most people wouldn’t waste their time doing that.

  • This guy is being a bit retarded. Vocaloid are instruments used to “COMPOSE” music. I would be pretty happy to hear a real singer sing songs that Miku and other Vocaloid’s have sung. I don’t accept plagerism of the songs though. The magazines and tv are praising the composing capabilities. He fled because he knew he didn’t do his homework and made himself look like an ass.

  • What kind of garbage is this?

    Of course, both are art. The people who seek traditional art will still seek traditional human performers, even as digital artists get recognition.

    WHY exactly does the music scene have to be one or the other, according to this guy?

    Continue making art and the people in charge of Miku’s art will continue making hers.

    I can’t even imagine anything plausible going through this guy’s mind, really.

  • yeah gazette fans are always like that, i’ve been in VK world for a long time and everyone know they were famous for retard comment and worship them like there’s no better musician than gazette

    #listening to dir en grey – vinushka#

  • 1. Miku is a program. We like it, so beat it.
    2. Visual kei is an excuse for rock to gain more fans. what’s special about it?
    3. If you get jealous over something like a program like her then you gotta look at yourself and what you lack.

    if anyone here who doesn’t understand that, i suggest going back to your happy place before you get burned.

  • I’m getting really irritated by comments about Miku, if you don’t like something, why don’t you just ignore it and shut up. Miku’s not even real, if they have time criticizing the ones who like , why not looking back what you lack.
    And what I get upset about, this is not related to Miku, is their talk about Real music. Since when was music divided into fake music and real music, music is just music, as long as you enjoy it, who the hell would care what it is.
    No one can stop you from voicing your opinions, but you are all adults, just try thinking a little bit before spouting nonsenes

  • Once again, ALL of the supporters of VK posting here are missing the meaning behind what Aoi is saying.
    He posted, “…if you are satisfied with that there’s no point in us making music”, as if the SONGS created by VOCALOID software WERE NOT MADE BY MUSICIANS LIKE AOI HIMSELF!!!

    These “mere machines” he speaks of, are simply tools.
    The other stuff, like the Miku concert, are just the means to selling the product, which is the MUSIC.

    Some of the songwriters WERE at that concert and performed with the band. So, it’s not like they are some KIDS MAKING MUSIC WITH A BRAND NEW TOY!!!

    It sounds as if Aoi is PI$$ING ON all the STRUGGLING MUSICIANS that ARE ONLY USING VOCALOID SOFTWARE TO GET THEIR MUSIC LISTENED TO SO THEY CAN GET WORK IN THE VERY INDUSTRY THAT HE IS ALREADY A PART OF!!!

  • I understand what Aoi is getting at. What if you spent 4 years working at a factory and suddenly your fired because the made a machine that can do it faster and better and the maint fee cost less then paying you? Well son you out of a job! Heck I would be mad as shit too.

  • I have to agree with Aoi. Miku Hatsune isn’t real. She has no flaws. She’s just a computer and so are the other vocaloids. Nothing is there at the live performances so people just really waste their money to see something that they can watch on their computers at home. It’s sad really.

    Visual Kei is all about image and creating music but at least they are real humans, not machines.

      • Improvisation… you know what is that? connection between artist and public. Thats why a frontman is always importan in a band, thats why personality is important for an artist.

        Every concert is diferent, but with a machine is like put play on itunes/winamp.

        • i bet SEGA and Crypton know, that they can prerender lots of different stuff (like reactions to crowd and various support animation) and improve the technology for the concert, so vocaloids can react to crowd and improvise their perfomance (the limits can be quite wide), so methinks it’s just a matter of time before the live vocaloid perfomance will be more spontaneous. Don’t judge everything by one of the first concerts.

  • If people would take a minute to think about what he is saying, instead of using context, this would go smoother.

    Haven’t any of you noticed that Vocaloids seem to get the most credit when it comes to songs? While the Producers of the songs are, strangely, unmentioned or not remembered until someone brings it up?

    I believe this Aoi person is referring to the worship of a fictional character and electronic voice, over actual preforming Artists (regardless of genre).

    Vocaloid can be treated as an instrument, but obviously it is a unique category. I mean, a piano can’t producer words, nor does it have a human appearance. In the case of VY1, it is interesting that an avatar was not created, as it practically pushes people to listen to the VOICE and not focus on the CHARACTER.

    • So you say Lady Gaga’s fans know who wrote her songs and music, who designed her outfit and who worked in studio, correcting and mastering her voice for albums and shows?

      AFAIK, ppl who aren’t new to the vocaloid music, follow their favourite producers, even buy their (available for free) tracks to support them and know, who’s Ryu, DECO*27, Yuyoyuppe, Wowaka, Clean Tears and others (sorry if i didn’t mention your favourite P), but there’s always lots of people who just don’t care.

      What’s wrong or new with idolizing the virtual character? Should i really mention rock painting, paganism idols, Holy Books, ballads and other ancient stuff? Miku’s as real as you want it to be, that’s all.

      • @digited

        It seems as if it is usually people who are not fans of certain entertainers (or things) that will search for who is the artist behind the artist. While the fans worship her as “unique and original” there are the others who point out things fans don’t think about, for example, her attire, music, lyrics etc. And that generates anger that fans generally don’t care about as they are just enjoying the music the person singing it.

        And that is why I pointed out that some people in the Vocaloid fandom feel that the Producers don’t get enough credit, especially when the avatar is doing the promoting. Once Supercell found their singer, they slowed down on producing songs with Vocaloid. I am just stating what it ‘seems’ Aoi is trying to explain. I think human entertainers feel threatened by synthesizers more than a flesh and blood singer that they can rival against.

        “”What’s wrong or new with idolizing the virtual character?””

        I never said I had a problem with it. But seeing the comments on here and on YT / NND (which ever video site you choose) seems to show that some fans can get ‘too wrapped up’ in their hobby / entertainment outlet, to a point that anger and bashing is what they feel they need to do to get back at someone. Basically, things get ugly, it also can divide a fandom due to constant lashing at others.

        Just saying, don’t get so attached that your entertainment source becomes your life.

        • “It seems as if it is usually people who are not fans of certain entertainers (or things) that will search for who is the artist behind the artist.”

          Hmm.. speaking about vocaloids, i can’t agree with that. When someone encounters a wonderful vocaloid song (PV?), it’s normal to find out if there is more music like this, using producer’s name as a search tag at first. There’s sooo much, erm, how can i say that, not-unique-or-high-quality-jpop vocaloid songs, that you have to search through that ocean somehow to find pearls or something special. For example, i don’t know how else one can find out a list of wonderful songs by MuryokuP. So afaik ppl just _have_ to find out about producers to collect what they really want to listen to.

          “Once Supercell found their singer, they slowed down on producing songs with Vocaloid.”

          Same with Yuyoyuppe. Using Vocaloid, they leveled up and promoted themselves so much that they now can cooperate with some really good vocalists. So,
          1. Vocaloid technology is far from perfect now
          2. those who sing well have nothing to fear from it
          3. those who don’t and are just heavely produced, will get a butthert as vocaloid gains popularity, because it has unlimited potential and shows how virtual the “love” of the fans really is.

        • “What’s wrong or new with idolizing the virtual character? Should i really mention rock painting, paganism idols, Holy Books, ballads and other ancient stuff? Miku’s as real as you want it to be, that’s all.”

          man relaxes all have a limit oO

          but if you consider Miku as a kind of “religion” Go behind the faithful don’t waste time here =D

  • Like 10:12 30/11/2010 Anonymous said, why condemn the entire band for something that a single member alone commented on twitter?

    Also The GazettE isn’t a band with popularity based on looks alone, their songs are nice and Ruki’s (vocalist) voice is really good.

    Try listening them a bit first before posting nonsense =\

  • It should come as NO SURPRISE that Vocaloid is still largely an Internet Phenomenon. The second thing, not every Japanese person is into Vocaloid.

    Westerns seem shocked to discover that everyone in Japan doesn’t like anime / manga / kawaii .

    • kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

      “how can these retards even try to compare themselves to miku? atleast mikus songs are GOOD…and miku has fans everywhere…guys and girls…these fags mostly cater towards the women…”

      if you go comment at least learn a little about J-Music, has so much wrong that I do not know where to start

      (aiai mais um mikutard…)

      first: “miku has fans everywhere…guys and girls…these fags mostly cater towards the women…” really???

      well as I already said in a previous comment
      Miku advancing in this world domination
      but gazettE already conquered the world

      “atleast mikus songs are GOOD” good? This is a matter of opinion why you think is good does not mean she is really good (she sucks in really XD)

      “and miku has fans everywhere…guys and girls…these fags mostly cater towards the women…”

      I write this sentence in the right way

      AND MIKU HAS FAGS/OTAKUS/MIKUTARD/NERD fans while
      GazettE has fans everywhere guys and girls

      ”how can these retards even try to compare themselves to miku”

      I write this sentence in the right way

      “how can these mikutards even try to compare themselves to gazettE”

    • yeah, I see you are obviously not really into music for saying virtual train station operator voices as good “singers”.

      Hey I heard that portal 2 revved up GlaDos, hope you are also a fan of her first single “still alive”.

    • There are quite a few songs of Gazette’s that are good also. Don’t equate Aoi to the entire band, he acted on his own. There are plenty of guys out there that like Gazette… they wouldn’t be performing at the Tokyo Dome soon if they didn’t have a decent sized fanbase.

      Give it up, they’re both niche markets to begin with. They both have fans around the world of varying genders. Don’t let it get to you.

  • Visual Kei ruined my best friend’s life -_-

    i’m not that into Miku, but i rather watch that cute piece of imagination than watching those stupid girl looking fuckers, they say it’s not real music? they are just looking, only 10% music e_e

  • err…
    a band who wants to make music but sticks to an image to sell more…
    a band (or a composer) who wants to make music but sticks to a program (and its image) to sell more…
    practically the same… comercial stuff… i dont blame any of them, hey

  • If you’re going to post pictures of the guy at least post recent pictures. Those are from gazette’s earlier days aka 3-5 years ago btw. I’m kinda disappointed he deleted his post cuz it makes him look like a coward and i consider him to be the most outspoken member of the group too. He shouldn’t be afraid of voicing his opinion. It’s HIS twitter account for goodness sakes and should be able to express his feelings.(btw..gazette is
    a very popular vkei band and more mainstream i guess..*can’t believe they’re gonna be on the same show as tm revolution and akb48)
    Btw..I’m totally neutral on the subject. Whatever floats your boat musically (but I rather listen to gazette than vocaloid)
    Vkei and vocaloid attract different audiences ie compare the comments on this site vs comments on another site that posted this article with comments of people who agree with him.

  • It never stops to amaze me how ignorant people can be.
    The guy just expressed his opinion and thoughts on matter, but when crowd sees someone who thinks diffrently they immediatly start to resent him.
    Never actually listening to his music and then saying he’s shit just means u’re stereotypic nerd who got his preciuos pride offended. Sorry, but that’s true. Learn to respect other people’s opinions.
    P.S: from musical point of view, Aoi’s guitar playing is amazing and knowing nothing about music, it’s wrong to say trash about things do not know anything about it.

  • I do not like the Gazette, but I agree with etip guy.

    different music for different people (with) PrinceHeir

    Machines will never replace real people!I do not think he sees this as a threat.
    it’s only just popular. Were once popular flared trousers and cassette players. Now popular Vokaloidy. It will pass.But the rock will live forever!

    • ”sure Vocaloid is now becoming bigger and bigger i guess they feel threatened about it.”

      ”I don’t like to say this but I’m not happy seeing listeners and magazines treat Vocaloid stuff as real “[artistic] works.”

      le direito, fodz nem le a materia e q vim posta?

  • HEY DUDE!! HE DONT DELETE HIS TWEETS YOU LIE!!!
    AND THAT TRANSLATE ISN’T TRUE!! IF YOU DON’T DELETE THIS MESSAGE FROM THIS BLOG UNTIL 24 HOURS SOMETHING BAD WILL HAPPENED TO YOU!!! FUCK YOUR SELF!!!!

  • Why do they criticize something that’s certain to backfire on them, that’s not very smart and a bit narrow minded of him to think that way.

    I don’t look at miku as an Idol, though I have more respects for people who uses her (the software) and create music. Why would he compare real life artists to Miku itself? = A =;; ばかだねえ~

    • ”ばかだねえ” aprendeu nihongo quando seculo passado? ou so sabe as palavras basica q todo otaku sabe??
      aprende a le a noticia animal

      ”I don’t like to say this but I’m not happy seeing listeners and magazines treat Vocaloid stuff as real “[artistic] works.”

    • They aren’t marketed as real people. Its being shown as just a “Vocaloid”. Everything behind the damn thing is fake. Fake voice.. Fake instruments. Its all done using a computerized version of everything.

      While GazettE makes everything themselves. And to the asshole who said someone else makes the music, they obvious know jack shit about this group because the music (lyrics and all ) is written by the members. No one else.

      • Oh, can you prove they make their own music? More often than not, it comes to light that there’s a ghost writer behind many bands, especially these groups that cater to a ridiculous niche, like looking shockingly effeminate.

        And I’m not sure what you mean by fake instruments. If there is a guitar portion, it is without a doubt a human being playing that guitar. If there’s percussion, keyboards, violin, etc., those are all done by real people, occasionally even the same person who created the lyrics, like how ryo does. The only thing fake is the synthesized voice, which again, is hardly a phenomenon that started with Vocaloid.

  • I find the amount of nerd rage over something a member of a VK band said absolutely hilarious. Gazette’s music is nothing like the vast majority of songs made with Vocaloids has been. Gazette started out punkish, for crying out loud. Miku would look adorable in punk outfits, but the voice wouldn’t fit. So what’s all the huff? The majority of Gazette’s fans (especially the ones that would read his twitter account anyways [read: stalkers] ) wouldn’t be interested in light-hearted moe music to begin with.

    That being said, I like Vocaloid (enough to have both games, over 20 figures, and plenty of plush and other merch of Miku and the gang ) AND I like Jrock bands. And I find the fact that people are trashing all VK just because of something the supposed ‘pretty boy’ in Gazette said pretty pathetic. Yes, VK has a lot to do with looks… but bands don’t reach the popularity level that Gazette is at to begin with just because they’re VK. Most indie rock bands SUCK and therefore fail. But not all of them. There are plenty of good ones out there – trust me, I’ve been wading through all the shitty ones for years. But you can’t trash the whole genre just because of one comment by this guy.

    So leave Miku to the Vocaloid fans and Aoi to his band and their fans (and both Miku and Gazette to people that are fans of both). Trashing each other isn’t going to do any good. He removed his comment, that should be enough to where he realized he was being a dumbass. Whatever, move on with your lives now.

  • Oh my god vocaloid not being real music is SO true, if music is all made with a computer its just not real music, does it have instruments? No. Is there a singer? Well, a fake singer…Is it made by a computer? lolyes.

  • Well, I’m kind of… the similar opinion. Vocaloid is amazing and all but if they should be treated like a real interprets, then there’s no point in singing anymore because soon, there will be no such thing that couldn’t be done with a program of some sort. I don’t know but it’s sad a bit.

    However, what the hell the group is supposed to be? I’m tired of Japanese singers dressing like… I dunno, creatures from space or whatever. ^^”

    • ”creatures from space or whatever.” ^^”

      e pq vc ta acostumada com justin biber e essas porcarias americanas por isso quando ve algo ”diferente” vc acha isso sorry c VK ñ e no estilo justin biber q vcs tao acostumados =D

      • Sorry, but why do you think I speak Spanish? What about me speaking in my native language to you? Sorry, but I seriously don’t understand a thing except for “diferente” and “Justin Bieber” and I’m not sure if I want to hear about that person.

        • ”became an off-topic”

          Whose fault? and you not angry??

          ”even brave enough to write in a language I would understand. So pathetic”

          ”All I have to say to this anon’s cowardly comment”

          ”I’m here to comment about the topic and discuss it with intelligent people which you obviously are not.”

          first you do this alot you say this an off topic so explain what’s that all have to do?
          you’re more concerned with attacking me and after all this you came and say

          ” I don’t want to be mean but”

          now on the few arguments about the topic AGAIN YOU FAIL

          ”I understand if you freaked out if I said their music sucks, which I can’t since I don’t know any of their songs. However, I just said they look really too weird for me in a way not to post loooong comments like I do now because people wouldn’t even bother to read it.”

          what I say is ”It is because you’re use to Justin Biever and those american shits. Why do you dislike something because it is diferent? I’m sorry but VK is not the Justin Biever you’re used to”

          is exactly on ”they look really too weird” I never say nothing about you say ”their music sucks”I explain because what you said in your first comment was offensive

          you say a loot of things but not who justified
          firts call me a coward for write in my language by their ideology ” because you’re hiding behind foreign language.”

          You are also doing this o_O seen by you be more concerned to attack me than to comment that this happened

          ”I should have written it in the first comment but seriously, I don’t see a reason why”

          you don’t see a reason??????? if you explain in the first comment not so offensive I even believe you but as always you first offend
          and then come pretending to be politically correct at least take a position

          conclusion: they are just excuses

          sorry but I’ll comment on your earlier comment

          ”I have to say that I don’t listen to Justin Bieber and such stuff”

          o_O weird….. I never say you listen justin biber I say
          “It is because you’re use to Justin Biever and those american shits. Why do you dislike something because it is diferent? I’m sorry but VK is not the Justin Biever you’re used to”

          SEE????? I talk about they “visual”(or how they look) (this comment is above you comment about ”creatures from space or whatever” and unlike you I only respond to reply…)

          weird very weird why you justify something I never say? oO weird….

        • boring!!!!!

          first why you simply don’t reply any comment about the topic????? but if you don’t have any argument you say:

          ”it’s became off-topic a long ago,”

          Whose fault? and you not angry???

          ”discuss it with intelligent people which you obviously are not.”

          more and more your arguments ”FAIL”

          ”I understand if you freaked out if I said their music sucks, which I can’t since I don’t know any of their songs. However, I just said they look really too weird for me in a way not to post loooong comments like I do now because people wouldn’t even bother to read it.”

          I never said this and no I not ”angry” because of that I simply say

          “It is because you’re use to Justin Biever and those american shits. Why do you dislike something because it is diferent? I’m sorry but VK is not the Justin Biever you’re used to”

          again you think is strange because is not like justi biber and

        • ”creatures from space or whatever. ^^”

          if you do not know how to express themselves

          not my fault ”just dislike how the people dress up because it simply looks horrible TO ME and the guys dressing like that cease to be guys FOR ME.”

          so why you don’t say this in your first coment?
          say this after my comment evidence that this is just an excuse

        • Spanish kkkkkkkkkkkk thats great =D and yes the guy above gave a summary and my fault you don’t understand ”Spanhish”(kkkkk)?? I speak in my native language because i want

          melhor e q eu posso manda vc pra PQP e vc num vai entende posso fala oq eu quisse q a maioria num vai entende msm

        • Thank you a lot for translation, I wouldn’t bother myself with it otherwise. Spanish, Portuguese, to me it all sounds similar, as my language would sound like e.g. Polish to someone who doesn’t know. The problem is anon 23:41 isn’t even brave enough to write in a language I would understand. So pathetic.

          I have to say that I don’t listen to Justin Bieber and such stuff since I’m pretty much of a rock girl so anon 23:41 totally doesn’t know what he/she is talking about.
          All I have to say to this anon’s cowardly comment is that I don’t “hate” VK because it’s different, actually I don’t hate it at all, I just dislike how the people dress up because it simply looks horrible TO ME and the guys dressing like that cease to be guys FOR ME.
          However, if they sing well, I don’t care. I listen to music with my ears, not eyes. But don’t expect me to like this nightmarish androgynous outfits.
          Seriously, some VK fanatic anons should chill out or they’ll get heart-attack or something.

        • That was portuguese actually o_0 … And i think he’s saying something like “It is because you’re use to Justin Biever and those american shits. Why do you dislike something because it is diferent? I’m sorry but VK is not the Justin Biever you’re used to” Something like that, i think.

        • Anon, seriously, I’m getting tired of this and it’s became an off-topic a long ago, I don’t know how I’m supposed to explain you any further:

          I speak Czech.
          You speak Portuguese.
          We wouldn’t understand each other in our native languages.
          This is a blog written in english. What language do you think it is supposed to be used in here? Seriously, I don’t want to be mean but why is that difficult to understand that I simply can’t speak/read Portuguese? The same as I don’t understand for example Chinese etc., the same as you probably don’t understand my language.
          That’s why I write in a language all of the people here understand, I even think it’s polite to do so. There are many of different people of different nationalities here and we all write in english because it’s kind of lingua franca of the internet and unlike with Portuguese, nearly everybody can at least read that language.

        • “because you don’t understand ”SPANISH” I am a cowardly?”
          Anon, I expect that you understand czech, my native language, too then…
          Yes it is cowardly because you’re hiding behind foreign language.

          My longer comment will show up later since it didn’t show up immediately.

        • How am I supposed to recognise that giberish? I speak 3 languages but I don’t care about such unimportant ones (again, FOR ME) like Portuguese. In Europe, I have no use for it. However, I’m polite enough not to write in my native language since I know most of people wouldn’t understand. I don’t expect people to grab dictionary because of me.
          If you want to speak in your language, fine but I won’t react to that and take it simply as another bullcrap as that Justin Bieber one you wrote before. Because that’s not even worth reacting.

          “if you do not know how to express themselves
          so why you don’t say this in your first coment?
          say this after my comment evidence that this is just an excuse”

          It’s not an excuse. I simply said what I think. I didn’t know I have to give an thorough explanation specially for… some people. Don’t you want an essay, too?
          “Evidence”? Don’t make me laugh, anon. I think I had enough of fun with you today. 🙂
          I understand if you freaked out if I said their music sucks, which I can’t since I don’t know any of their songs. However, I just said they look really too weird for me in a way not to post loooong comments like I do now because people wouldn’t even bother to read it.
          Understood? I have nothing against those people and yes, maybe I should have written it in the first comment but seriously, I don’t see a reason why. Since an opinion is always a personal thing and if I remember correctly, I didn’t say anything like “They are/Their music is (ugly word)” or something similar which really would be impolite.

  • ROFL you ppl got butthurt.

    and i beg your pardon, he did not deleted his tweets it’s still here http://tinyurl.com/3a73lpu & http://www.twitlonger.com/show/6vjmlt

    and to make things clear, it’s not masturbation what he meant.

    it’s self satisfactory.

    here’s the translation.

    Please note the difference in interpretation of the same words here. They could mean the same, a dictionary will give you both meanings, but sometimes one has to use some common sense too, right? Here is what i interpreted it as. I’m not saying it’s the most perfect translation, i’m just saying, you can look at what he said this way too.

    [[Aoi]] I don’t really want to say this but I’m not happy about how some listeners and magazines are treating vocaloids as “created works” nowadays. It is truly a wonderful technique but if that is what people get satisfied with, then there is no meaning to us creating songs and to exaggerate, it turns into something we do just for self-satisfaction. Having a machine equated with an artist this way cannot be considered sound reasoning.

    www but i’d have to say. opinions are opinions and pfft that picture was way back in idk 2005

    i’d say Aoi > miku cuz i go for Luka.

    wwwwwwwwwwwwww anyways. back to original topic. opinions are opinions. it’s almost the same issue that happened when Daft Punk began to rise.

    some ppl find it hard to accept them as well. hahahah

    but yeah, diff ppl diff opinions.

    • there is no way we, Miku fans would ever forget ryo and his masterpiece(in term of Vocaloid), MELT, he is one of the reason Miku and Vocaloids rise to fame^^, and from that Vocaloids also help ryo rise to fame…His works are absolutely magnificent^^

  • Miku, though not real, symbolizes an entire community’s talents and efforts in song writing, composition and artistic skills.

    Instrument, program, or imaginary idol, it simply boils down to:

    Creative Person: “I wrote this song. Would you sing it for me?”
    Hatsune Miku: “Of course I will. With pleasure!”

    • In terms of systems engineering, Miku is an emergent property. In fact, she is more than the sum of the people who “use” her, and any man using her provide inspiration for other men, determining a virtuous circle. She became a full fledged entity born from fellowship.

    • even if it were not true, a machine that is as good as a human shouldn’t be honoured as if it were a human?! humanity is defined on what humans do, not on what humans are. In fact, men are biological MACHINES, technologically speaking..

    • Who cares? people like novel and anime characters EVEN if they are not real! what’s so bad about delusions?
      I’m a programmer and I’m working on automatic music composition, so I can tell you that one day maybe machines will compose music by themselves; Miku is only a step forward on a long way. What’s so great about her? The fact “she” prove a “non human”, doing her job, can be accepted as it were .. even if it succeed only for a second and even if the phenomenon can be seen as a “willing suspension of disbelief”. This fact let people like me think : “OK, if people can love machines, then musical AI are worth the time we had and we will spend on them”. If people had prejudices about machines, even if machines were good in their jobs, machine’s music would have no future. It’s stupid to give people something they do not need or do not like. EVEN if it is good aesthetically or functional.

      Then the problems is: are machine good at making music? if you had listened to a couple of Cope’s works,

      http://artsites.ucsc.edu/faculty/cope/mp3page.htm

      you would probably say “uhm.. we are not that far”.

      Mauro LR Pesce.

  • if you had ever tried hard in a band, or merely just playing the guitar, you will know what Aoi is talking about.

    visual-kei’s main selling point is basically their looks but The Gazette is one of those bands that transcends this. a “cheap knock-off of Dir En Grey”? *scoffs* oh please..

    not denying that musical talent is needed on both sides but based on the comments above miku is just fappable?

  • Wow, I didn’t expect this out of Aoi. Seriously, I love both Vocaloid and the GazettE, but if he seriously thinks that. He should go fuck himself. If you can’t stand to be beaten by a machine that people use to make music, then that’s just sad.

  • Don’t listen to the vocaloids so can’t comment on them. As for Visual Kei I’m a bit of an odd fan, first I’m a guy and secondly I don’t go all ape shit over the costumes. Sure many of their outfits are bad ass but the thing I care about is how it sounds cuz when I’m driving I’m listening to the song and not looking at the video/pictures. With that said VK bands have some bad ass music that many people would deny and bash cuz its not “insert their favorite artist here”

  • It is music, but in the end, Miku is just a machine. Before you guys flame and whatnot, it’s just that when I hear her songs, I sense no emotion in her voice. It’s a wonderful program, but personally, human voices are better.

  • While I do think that live singers are generally better, Vocaloids are more or less just tools or instuments; by saying that songs made using the Vocaloid programs aren’t art he’s not just insulting the program itself, but all the users who have managed to created some really great songs using them.

  • Ok, yes what he said is wrong, but it doesn’t mean it’s OK to just denounce VK like that. He’s not the only one in the wrong here. I love Vocaloids AND Visual Kei! If it’s the fans that matter that makes something real, then the fans for Vocaloids makes it just as real as the fans for VK! So stop being so rude and anally biased!

  • (if you rather think “TL:DR” than actually reading, then don’t reply)

    IMO, Aoi wins Miku anytime. For once, he can breath and play a real guitar. And he records in a real-life studio.
    And the GazettE have been around making music for almost 10 years.
    They never were really a “knock off of Dir en Grey” musically -maybe visually when they just started-. They’re a band of their own now.

    And i find it rather difficult to believe something like “A popular visual kei band you say? I’ve never heard of them” when their last singles and album had publicity ads pretty much everywhere in Tokyo: subways, billboards, buses, tv shows, you name it.

    Neither Aoi individually or the GazettE have the need to make a name for themselves by ranting about Vocaloid or Miku, because this “visual kei band” had thousands of japanese as well as international fans long before Miku appeared.

    Yes, this band is marketed by looks, but also music– to those that keep bitching about vk without really knowing about it, there are hundreds of vk bands, but VERY few survive their first year, and of those VERY few make it to major and survive a decade or more; this “survival” is because of their music more than their visual kei looks that btw the bands tend to leave behind as they advance.

    The GazettE are not as much “visual kei” now, the photos used on the post are OLD. Google some new pics next time.

    This is definitely not jelaousy, it’s a legitimate concern he has as a musician, and what if he says it on HIS Twitter account? Is only natural to worry about how people pay more attention to a virtual synthetizer than other real people. If things keep going like this i wouldn’t be surprised if by the time i go to Japan there isn’t any human voice singing anymore.

    I’m sure he understands that Miku or Vocaloid in general are just instruments, but the problem is how people -mostly japanese otakutards- OBSESS over the character and refer to it as if it were real. A person might feel it real if they really like it that much, but that doesn’t eliminate the fact is just a tool/instrument, and mikutards often if not always seem to forget is a software they’re talking about, not their personal Queen or something.

    I’m not into Vocaloid -especially not Miku- and i mostly listen to VK and Jrock, but i didn’t started bitching at vocaloid-related stuff just because; i actually started listening to some of Megurine Luka songs recently.
    How many of you even bothered to listen to other so called vk bands? How many of you know all the different genres and styles, and knows wich bands are good at making real music and wich are marketing shit? How many of you even bothered to give things a lil’ chance BEFORE spitting out words without fundament?
    Do i really have to say “please give real musicians a chance”? It’s ridiculous.
    Sure, you can all keep listening to the vocaloid of your choice, but i’m just saying…

    (sorry if this double-posts -_-)

  • I love visual kei music, but the hypocrisy is hilarious. VK is just as managed and produced and artificial as vocaloid… except VK, like Idol music, uses real people as the product rather than a virtual person…

    • He didn’t say anything bad about the composers,
      he just said that the vocaloids ( like Hatsune Miku ) aren’t real artist,and that people should stop act as if they were.

      Sorry for my bad english ~

  • I think he talks about the praise of Vocaloid characters as artists. Because they are the ones who receives the praise and the cum of sex-deprived wotas.

    In my personal opinion, it’s pathetic to consider a non-animated character an artist or someone able to make music (because, honestly…how many people praises the talent of the people using the Vocaloid tool and not the gargling voice of a certain character?). It cannot be compared with the work of someone composing, playing an instrument and singing; the butt-hurt people is the one criticizing him for speak aloud his opinion about it. And those saying that the visual-kei style (because is not a music genre, it’s a look) is gay…hey, we’re in the XXI century and metrosexual men exists. Get over it.

    • Butthurt visual kei whore detected…

      You think Miku’s songs generate themselves? There are people who coded them in, in the first place.

      I’m not siding with Miku fanboys either. It’s just hypocritical for a a member of a band whose demographic of fans consists mainly of little girls who wouldn’t give a flying fuck about them in the first place if it wasn’t for their visual kei APPEARANCE.

      You remind me of the lot of visual kei fangirls who earlier said “I like Dir En Grey’s songs. Their fashion is just a plus”; the same people who later make a complete 180-degree turn in their opinions when Dir En Grey themselves realize that they need to ditch the gay look if they want more people to take them seriously.

      “OH NOES! DIR EN GREY IS SELLING OUT! I AIN’T BUYING THEIR ALBUMS NO MOAR!”

      Fucking little bitches depraved of a good hard fucking(but ain’t hot themselves)….

      • I don’t give a fuck about looks in musicians, mostly actual bands that adopt Visual Kei aesthetics sucks musically and I’m not afraid to say so; I’m aware that Vocaloid is a software and there are people working behind them, but the credit doesn’t go for these people, it goes for the characters and as person, I understand how upsetting is to see people going all excited for something unreal. The same goes for the Autotune stuff, the credits doesn’t go for an artist itself, it goes to a program but people never recognizes that.

        And my sexual life is amazingly active, and I’m not hideous to be considered ugly or not hot. If you got offended or if I offended someone with an opinion -one of the many opinions on this site- then my apologies. Not my fault people views themselves reflected 🙂

  • wow this is rather sad coming from my fav jrock band… and this makes no sense. every time i watch a gazette song all the comments are just like “OOH LOOK HOW HOT THEY ALL ARE” so hes being hypocritical. his entire fanbase are just fangirls. how is he any different as a musical artist? my fav band insults my fav anime girl.. i think i’m about to vomit.

  • Lmao at the amount of ignorance. I like miku and her/composers music but most of the ppl here admit to not knowing who the Gazette is so how can you judge their level of talent? Once you have actually listened to the bands music then we can talk til then your talking out of your ass. If most of you knew their accomplishments you’d prolly just keep to your self. Both are great in their own respect, id much rather listen to miku than lip syncing fakers.

  • First off Vocaloid isn’t even an original idea. Can anyone say Gorillaz? I actually think everyone hate is mostly likely based on Vocaloid’s crazy ass popularity. I’m not a fan of Vocaloid but I enjoy listening to Gorillaz.

  • Everyone, Miku hater and lovers, are missing the point.
    Miku should not be the focus here.
    It’s about the SONGWRITERS that are using the software that is “Miku” and MUSIC that comes from using it.
    ALL the “musicians” that are complaining about “Miku”
    should just worry about their songwriting skills.
    Besides, I’d prefer to listen to more songs like
    “The Disappearance of Hatsune Miku” or
    “Romeo and Cinderella” before I would
    ANYTHING by Lady Gaga-GooGoo.

    • Thankyou. It makes me really mad when people say that Miku songs are worthless or ‘not real works’, because there are so many producers that are really, really talented. I mean look at supercell, Miku helped make them famous. No one would argue that their music ‘sucks’ – they did the Bakemonogatari end theme. You dont have to like a song to admit that the musicians are talented. I have no idea why people think the vocals of a song determines whether or not it’s ‘real music’ or ‘worth anything’. It’s the whole package.

      And yeah, these indie Vocaloid producers make far more memorable and interesting songs than the shit that’s popular in the mainstream like Lady Gaga.

  • The Gazette, talking about GOOD music? Ahahahahahahaha.

    One of my friends would kill me if she heard/read this. But Gazatte music, ugh.
    Visual Kei is a pin-up industry. They’re in it to look pretty and few of them make any good music.
    And the only reason most people buy the God awful stuff is because it has the artist they’re swooning over playing in it.

    Which there’s nothing wrong with being an idolfag. But Visual Kei artists don’t exactly have room to be commenting about music quality.
    I’m into Visual Kei for the traps and the occasionally, very occasionally decent music. And I think that people who claim otherwise are most likely lying.

  • Allow me to sum up the arguments presented so far.

    1. Music is subjective, judgement is erroneous.
    2. Miku is as cute as a pea
    3. All music is made from tools, including the human vocal organ. Hence Miku is merely another instrument, validating its musical status.
    4. Visual Kei is gay as a rainbow trout, their music is okay.
    5. Miku – Fappable – Kei – No.

    Anything I missed?

  • I don’t get people that say vocaloid songs arent ‘real’ music. They’re incredibly varied. If you’re talking about the super beepy-doopy electronica pop songs, that’s your preference and you probably just dont regard electronica as ‘real music’. However, there are a lot of Vocaloid songs that use real musicians: guitars, pianos, drums, etc. The music track on its own would be considered ‘real music’ (and really really good music from some of the more talented composers). Why is it suddenly ‘not’ music when the vocal track is added?
    It’d make more sense if you just said ‘it isn’t real singing’, because well, it isn’t. But who cares?

    Also big words coming from a group whose songs all sound like whining.

  • I don’t like Miku all that much, but that, coming from a faggot whose group’s main atraction is their LOOKS mainly and hardly their ‘music’ or what’s left of it?

    Faggots, all five members of The Gazette. No, don’t tell me to capitalize the end letter ‘e’ either, because that’ll make me as stupid as them.

  • I want to keep this as neutral as I can to both sides.

    When it comes to music, people have different interests and different passions. For one person the music can be a source of entertainment, while for the other person it can be the most important thing in their life.

    All musicians have different reasons to why they become musicians. Some do it for fame and money (most modern-day pop artists) and others do it because it’s what they enjoy doing the most in life, just like football players play football because they have a passion for it.

    I can see what he is trying to say about Miku not being ‘real’ music, but there is no definition of what is ‘real’ music. Rap is music, hiphop is music, pop is music, rock is music, death metal is music, grindcore is music. Pretty much anything you can listen to which has a melody is music. A piano creates music. A guitar creates music. Vocaloid also creates music.

    For more passionate musicians as him and myself, there is a difference between most of the music that Vocaloid artists make and what he makes with his band.

    For example, one can write simple and meaningless lyrics with Miku’s voice and it will be successful as long as it has a nice tune. He has to sit down with his band and create everything from scratch. It has to be unique, and it needs a message. It has to be of the highest quality. If it is simple and cheap, nobody will like it and it will have consequences for them as a band. A lot of people will like cheap and simple with Miku, just because it’s Miku. Please keep in mind that this is not directed at any of you as people, so if you find that this does not apply to you, then I’m not talking about you.

    My point is that it’s easier to create music with Vocaloid as the artists don’t need to sing the songs themselves as they already have a famous virtual idol singing the songs for them. If the music is created virtually, it also requires a lot less effort. Just imagine how many years these guys have been practicing their instruments to get where they are, then one guy creates a song in a computer software and it’s a hit.

    I believe what he refers to as ‘real’ music is the sort of music that several people individually create with their own instruments and emotions without taking any shortcuts.

    In the end it all comes down to one word: “effort”. Just as it’s unfair that these hard working musicians earn less than the popular pop-artist musicians who in most cases use the same 4 chords and never wrote any of their own lyrics, nor even learned to play a single instrument. In some cases they can’t even sing so they just auto-tune it, yet they earn millions. This is what I feel he is trying to say.

    I hope nobody was offended by this.

    • Anonymous says:

      I don’t agree with you calling vocaloid songs “simple and meaningless” because many songs from vocaloids tells beautiful stories. Like the Daughter of Evil series or from Y to Y by Miku if you bothered to read the lyrics. These songs tell a story or a feeling that the composer wants to express. The only difference between Visual Kei and vocaloid’s music is the medium of output. One is a human and other is a program but it doesn’t make it any less meaningful.

    • I understand that you want to keep your points as far away from flames as possible, and as such, I shall honor your standing.

      I have one little gripe though:

      “He has to sit down with his band and create everything from scratch. It has to be unique, and it needs a message.”

      Were you there with them when they composed their songs? You can’t just go to one side and claim that they ‘have heart’ or any other complicated things Yoda would say. You can’t ever really know their motivations.

      To me, it’s hard to not put these visual kei bands down. I’ve heard their one entire album, ‘Stacked Rubbish’, and I felt that it was as cookie-cutter as it can get. Nothing I never heard before. All that makeups and costumes made me think that if they spend the time they used to prepare all that shit by, you know, making BETTER and MORE UNIQUE music instead, they’d be taken more seriously in this argument.

      It’s as if they knew their music is generic, which they try to rectify by making their LOOKS stand out.

      Then again, I ask, what’s the point being a musician? Shouldn’t they be better off removing their dicks and becoming a model like Tsubaki Ayana did?

  • the term artist is a vague conepts, and is nothing but an attributed property by other people. there is no definite criteria to be considered an artist. This guy’s just arrogant and probably a ludite.

  • He is right and wrong. Vocaloids are voice synthesizers. The characters are nothing more than marketing and staging. Very effective, but they are not “real”.

    That said, it is still music. Essentially it is just treating voice as a one more instrument. Music has been doing this for years, but until recently it was almost entirely in the forum of background vocals or sampling. Not full-on lyrics.

    The difference between a vocaloid and a human singer is not all that different between a piano and a keyboard, or an electric or acoustic guitar. Vocaloids are not artists. The real artists are those who use the software to compose and produce the music, as well as those who created the characters and use them in different ways.

  • I kind of get what he means.

    People don’t fawn over musical instruments, they worship the masters playing them. Just because there’s a face linked to the Vocaloid (which, boiled down, is a musical instrument), it seems strange that it’s generating so many fans for the character. I guess that’s what he’s trying to say?

    On the other hand, I also get that Vocaloid is great technology and there are applications for it. And that people loving fictional characters is nothing new.

    Miku is fun if it’s just for the occasional song and dabbling, but I don’t think it can convey the full range of emotion a competent singer/artiste can. So yeah.

  • Vocaloid system’s just a tool, an instrument, the clay in the hands of the HUMAN sculptor, the musical artist. Otherwise musical editing is just null and the only “valid” music is by hand. From memory.

    I don’t think he (cough) intended to pick a fight, or thought the comment through. It was probably offhand and he (lol) regrets it ’cause he (lolwut) doesn’t really care all that much.

    >Why is it celebs always self-destruct as soon as they get a Twitter account?
    This. Worldwide, they’re making public statements without their PR guy writing the lines. Athletes and actors and whatnot may have hard-earned talent/experience, but it won’t help this weakness, a PR guy has to cover it.

    The internet (Twitter) is no press conference, but it’s still public, it’s still on record, and the PR guys are screaming “No! No! Shut up! What the hell are you doing, you’re gonna get us trashed!”

  • I have to disagree with him. Just because Vocaloids aren’t real people doesn’t mean there no value or soul in their songs. In fact in most Vocaloid songs there’s more soul in it then most of the pop drivel out there. In most Vocaloid productions there’s only a few people pouring their souls into that song. Vocaloids sing the song and tend to take on a personality, even for that one song. Vocaloids sing for those who have visions, but might not be talented or suited to sing themselves. Music to me is music as long as I can feel something from it. But most of the music in the main stream today are just corporate tools for making money, using and empty shells as a marionette to “sing”. (I say “sing” because a lot of the time they just autotune the singer beyond recognition.) So is Vocaloid the equivalent to the lone guy walking around the streets with a guitar or the struggling band just trying to get noticed? No, not exactly. But the people behind the productions are often no namers just trying to get noticed as well. I’m not trying to diss the GazettE here, I’ve never heard their music. I just think Aoi is wrong and a little arrogant for missing the point of Vocaloid. I think he’s a little jealous people like Vocaloids so much. He probably feels he works so hard but these things are just machines. People like Vocaloids so much because they can feel the effort and soul put into the song. It takes a lot of work to put personality into music and a lot of artists could learn from Vocaloid songs. So Aoi would you call the effortless corporate pop music, where singers don’t even sing anymore, music over Vocaloid music, where the people mostly aren’t putting out their song for money but rather for their artistic vision?

  • @Megidola

    I can’t let this pass.
    Visual kei is above and beyond appearance for me.

    I love vocaloid but to bash on visual kei bands just because that’s the easiest route….
    It’s just wrong…
    It pisses me off the shit people say about celebs behind there back or to there face if you’re not a fan then fuck off.

    But i love both equally i think vocaloid is a pretty neat thing and i would love to see miku live at least once.
    Because of the music… the lyrics..

    It’s the same for The GazettE and if you don’t think reila is musical brilliance then there is something wrong with you.

    Obviously these so called vocaloid fans are not fans for the right reason for being so aggressive to a post that wasn’t even all that hostile to there beloved (miku).

    • @06:53:

      You are right in the last paragraph, there’s no need to be overly zealous, we don’t have to defend Vocaloids, we don’t need anyone to acknowledge them, their fans will anyway, and we can’t force others to like them either.

      Love what you love, ignore what you don’t, I know it’s hard but at least try it.

      “and if you don’t think reila is musical brilliance then there is something wrong with you.” >>> ‘and if you don’t AGREE WITH MY OPINION then there is something wrong with you.’

      Hurr

    • What I meant was that dismissing Miku as not being “real art” is a silly thing to do because there’s nothing stopping people throwing the same criticism back at his music.

      I consider the concept of “real art” to be meaningless, people should just enjoy whatever they like and not worry about such things.

  • Visual kei is only all about theatrics and looks, their music isn’t that good.

    I’m a musician myself and I don’t make music for people. I will share my music and be happy that some people appreciate what I create, but I make music because I love music. I love being creative, I don’t do this for the money or for the “fans”. Creating music is just fun to do for me. It’s sad how artists forget about that and now they only care about being popular.

  • I think he’s mainly talking about the whole vocaloid-concert-on-stage issue. He’s not really talking about the music not being music, since the music was composed by real life people. Not to mention, the composers who became famous for vocaloid songs, now have a bright future composing songs for the music industry in the light.

    Not to mention, a lot of niconico utaite sings vocaloid songs in real person, so I don’t think Aoi’s aiming at the songs not being music.

    The point is miku isn’t a “musician”/”artist”. This is true because it’s a computer program. You can call it a “virtual singer”, but it’s not an artist. The program was not meant to be “art”, it’s meant for the very purpose to sing songs for people who write songs. Just because it’s always been easier to have midi/synth for imitate instruments but not voice with words.

  • Although I have no problem with those who listen to Miku and other Vocaloids, I can’t listen to their songs for long because the robotic hints in their voices aren’t appealing to me.

    However, I wonder if they are criticizing the Vocaloids (voices) or the songs made by people using Vocaloids for the singing. If it’s the latter part, I totally disagree because there are many magnificent productions made by either amateur or professional artists (which is why I prefer waiting for certain Utatte Mita covers).

    Those songs are still made by real people and I personally think they should be the one who gets the credits, not the Vocaloid used for it hence why I still consider them as “real songs”.

  • i personally like gazette and vocaloid… but ive got to say.. if i were to say one is better than the other (which it isnt, cause its opinion) i would say gazette… i wudnt say visual kei’s success is because of their looks, ye, looks helps… but i like nearly all gazette’s songs… while i like a lot of miku’s songs too, but it isnt something i can listen to again and again like i can with gazette

    • What? The vocaloid software is actually quite complex to achieve a decent singing voice. Sure you don’t need muscle memory or dexterity to use it, but you still need to understand how a person sings to replicate the nuances of a real person signing.

      What you’re arguing is what many people have argued in the past. Is electronic music not real or requires no talent compared to something like rock music?

      You’re not looking at the big picture…you still need an adept musician to write the music for the vocaloids to sing.

      • VK bands, rock bands, any performance based artist, including the gazette do use software similar to the Vocaloid software, but on top of that they also have the performance…

        Who has a more difficult job?

        The vocaloid software is actually the easy way out of things; normally you’d need to work your balls off to create a synthesised voice.

        To be honest, whilst some of the Miku songs are brilliant, not bothering with properly producing the songs (i.e. JUST using ezdrummer+midi sound tables + vocaloid) makes the compositions sound rather cheap. I’m pretty sure a lot of those 2ch people would be too obsessed with miku to realise.

        On the subjective side of things, I get a headache listening to Miku. The robotic fluctuations are rather creepy.

        • Actually it’s pretty easy to create a synthesized voice…just use a vocoder.

          Just like how computer based music software on the cheap back in the late 90′ early ’00s allowed a new generation of people to write music (good and bad), the vocaloid software is doing the same thing. You have bedroom musicians who fly solo actually getting themselves heard thanks to having a vocalist.

          Sure VK bands need to perform, but nothing wrong with a solo artist who doesn’t need to or can’t perform.

  • He has a lot of truth in what he’s saying.

    Vocaloid music, even if you say is difficult to produce is talentless music.

    You use the vocaloid program to write a song, you can tweak it until its to your satisfaction, and it will play back perfectly for you every time.

    It doesn’t require muscle memory, or dexterity, or years of practice or lessons.

    And at a live performance, there’s no talent performed. it just plays back what was pre-made.

    You Miku fans can react however you want, but you can’t deny those facts. I like Miku music, but I don’t believe it deserves all its acclaim.

    Even if you gone like The GazettE, they have to learn to sing and to sing well, and to be able to do it on stage in front of huge crowds of fans, and they have to do it in real time, its not just played back.

    When they play their instruments, its not liek the vocaloid program, sure theyre both hard to learn, but playing a instrument in real time takes talent, and then do it again without making mistakes on stage. thats real music

    Guitar Drums and all other instruments, you cant compare it to a computer program, they actually have to play it live to make music. there’s no “Play” button

    • Anonymous says:

      You faggot..Sure i agree with ya that once tweaked a Vocaloid music will play flawlessly..but isn’t that the same for ANY ARTISTS?It’s not likely they manage to perfectly sing the song during recording..they do it again and again until a good record is made..that’s the same as tweaking vocaloid songs..

    • I believe there’s a real band playing in Miku’s solo concert though. Only the song part uses program.

      If you said it like that, than that means every recorded music is not real music. you can just push the “play” button to repeat the music.

      • Yes, an actual band played the music at her live concert. The only “artificial” thing was the vocals, and considering how many vocalists lip sync during live concerts, it’s hardly a telling point.

        Not to mention using a Vocaloid is an incredibly daunting experience if you know nothing of singing. You’ll just end up making Miku sound like of those tone deaf, high pitched tweens plaguing Youtube. Unless you can understand when to raise the pitch, when to hit vibrato, and if they’re good, when to simulate her taking a breathe, it just sounds fake in all the wrong ways.

    • ChaosAngelZero says:

      I didn’t even think about the work that goes in playing the instruments because of the absurdity of people’s preference for this soulless machine code over a real person (this may have to do with those famed hikikomori habits taking their tall on their taste and reasoning).

      Thank you, Anon.

  • “I don’t like to say this but I’m not happy seeing listeners and magazines treat Vocaloid stuff as real “[artistic] works.”

    – Vocaloid music is artistic and creative.

    “It’s certainly marvellous technology, but if you are satisfied with that there’s no point in us making music. I could go so far as to say it makes what we’re doing nothing but masturbation.”

    – There is always a reason to make music and should be thankful for the fans you already have.

    “People who treat mere machines like that as being equal to artists are crazy.”

    – He’s right, people who treat machines as artists are insane because the real artists are the composers. Vocaloids overall don’t deserve the credit they get. They don’t require any talent. It’s the composers who deserve the credits for composing.

    So, Aoi has the right to feel threatened because people will pay to go to live Miku concerts where her voice is just programmed and automated and people will be satisfied. What then, would be the point of live bands? Talent here, is the issue.

    • The critical point is “just programmed”. I bet Miku haters have never even saw the Vocaloid app interface, not to say about trying out “just programming”. Vocaloid for singing is like Photoshop for drawing: if you can’t draw, you’ll draw nothing good, no matter how powerfull the software is.

      It’s a complex musical instrument and it takes pure musical skill, talent and a lot of work to make a good song with it. Yowane Haku didn’t appear for nothing.

  • To be honest The Gzette is awesome, forts Aoi is a guitar player, and their songs are very cool, In a way if you can make music with an application is not the same as playin an instrument and it wont be the same. I love miku and I´ve heard a lot of good songs with vocaloid and there is a lot that can be done with it but real music is real music. but Aoi will bow to miku soon XD

  • ChaosAngelZero says:

    Don’t know about their music, but they are damn right. Weeaboos be damned, this Vocaloid shit most certainly ain’t music.

    And the “Aoi vs Miku” bit is completely beside the point, Artefact. Your vapid, moeblob virtual idol isn’t a singer, and the ugly Aoi guy is one, period.

  • Some people need to go out if they never heard of them…considering they’re the 4th Visual-kei band in history to play at Tokyo Dome on Dec 26 this year. (the first two being X JAPAN, LUNA from years ago, and the 3rd is SID, set to play 15 days ahead of gazette).

    I actually saw this whole incident real-time, and it’s not that I don’t agree with him entirely, but I think as a public figure he shouldn’t speak so carelessly on Twitter, and then deleting the post after lol. If you’re gonna do it, stay by your beliefs at least.

    • ChaosAngelZero says:

      ·=·=·=·=·

      Earth to Carnelian, Earth to Carnelian, do you copy?

      Miku is not an artist. Repeat, Miku is not an artist. She’s just an illustration, a drawing coupled with a crappy singing synthesizer app. It may be hard to tell a fictional cartoony character/ computer software from a real person from wherever you are, but down here the difference is quite damn obvious.

      Have a nice day, over and out.

      ·=·=·=·=·

      • Everyone is free to believe what they want to believe. You should seriously try to stop making people change their ways of seing things, especially if that is something with a huge fanbase. In fact if you want to go and change peopls mind of something that is relevant go to a church and tell them that god doesnt exist.

        In the end both miku fans and Religious people have the right to believe both their idols are real, you can go on and on about how it isnt and put a lot of logical arguments and it wont matter

        This comes from someone who enjoys both Miku and Human singers

  • Eh, big deal… I don’t see the point in being bothered by another’s opinion. Some love Miku and some hate her, and it doesn’t change anything. “Oh noes, someone insulted our virtual idol”… it’s just really pointless. Also to whoever said Gackt was VK he’s not, since he’s been solo he’s just rock/pop.

    Miku is great. The Gazette are fine. Neither artist’s popularity will affect the other positively or negatively since they appeal to different types of fanbases.

      • That actually would be a good thing, albeit unlikely.

        Otaku take idols far, far too seriously, so when they inevitably fall from grace like Aya Hirano, it’s some ridiculously huge scandal.

        They’ll never have to worry about something like Miku losing her “purity” that they relentlessly obsess over to some guy, or suddenly quitting, or simply dying of old.

        But Vocaloids sound like shit if you try to make them speak rather than sing, so I doubt we’d see something like that happening even several decades from now.

  • My very first thought was, who is what gender in that group?

    My second thought was that he is wrong. Artists do create the music. From the lyrics to the music to the dance moves and even the voice is from a living source.

    The only thing not real is Miku “herself”.

  • 2D is 2D. 3D is 3D. Please don’t mix 2D and 3D. I mean, virtual and reality.
    As a fan of them both, I liked both the style and way of singing that is unique to each have a ways to present and future generations.

  • Sorry to Aoi, but vocaloid songs were composed by the same people who ask him to sing their works.

    Guys, he’s just hurt by the fact that vocaloids are becoming more popular than some real life singers. However, his “freak out” was a bit insecure since the vocaloids aren’t made to replace him, but to work with him.

    • Sorry to you but Aoi isn’t the singer and the group he is in writes their own music. Lyrics and all. People should really do their research before talking shit, but of course I wouldn’t expect such things from trolls.

  • “I don’t like to say this but I’m not happy seeing listeners and magazines treat Vocaloid stuff as real “[artistic] works.””

    Why wouldn’t the songs be “real” artistic works? They were still made by people; the vocaloid didn’t write the song itself. By that logic, no music involving instruments could ever be artistic.

    I think he’s just upset that otaku who can’t sing can now create music so good that it competes with mainstream media (i.e. his job). Their music writing talents can finally be recognized and enjoyed.

  • I disagree with GazettE. Vocaloid can be real music or real artistic pieces of work, because it’s still the composer (e.g. Ryu+Supercell) creates the music. And I’m not speaking this because I’m biased, I actually prefer human voices, but people just don’t understand what music is really about.

    There are instances where Vocaloid is obviously inferior to real voices. That is when vocaloid is just a simple cover for a song by a real artist. That requires no music composition talent and is usually preferable.

  • Miku is not an artist.

    However, the people who make decent songs using her (or it, if you prefer) ARE artists.

    Saying the vocaloids aren’t art is like saying CG isn’t art. Oddly enough, enough on art sites, some believe this to be true.

    • There are fine arts people who think graphic design and computer rendered art is not considered art.

      I think Aoi is threatened, not by Miku, but by the newest artists gaining popularity using Miku. Without her…we wouldn’t have Supercell, Doriko, Oster Project, etc. – artists that write great music, but never had a vocalist until Miku came along.

    • lol I really wouldn’t call Gackt visual kei anymore.. when he was part of Malice Mizer, yes. When he released his first single (Mizerable), yes.. but now, he’s just plain rock/pop. lol and that’s coming from a fan of his.

        • I dunno. I haven’t heard many songs from Gackt (not exactly my taste, though I like a few of them), but I’ve read his autobiography and I can see that he’s a much more respectable individual than I initially thought.
          Simply put, one of his biggest drives is the fight for individualistic freedom. He encourages young people to be creative and change their future to become more bright for themselves.

          And he doesn’t just say this and sit around doing nothing about it. He once visited a fan’s highschool with a newly composed graduation song because the fan needed encouragement. And he did this under the radar, so it took the media (and his manager) a while to even catch up.
          And when he commented about VOCALOID, after he gave his voice to it, he said he was glad to provide his voice as a tool for others to be creative and free with it–less out of standard statement and more out of personal relevance (since a ton of artists rejected the proposal until he came along).

          As for Aoi-kun from the Gazette, I’m a bit familiar with visual kei… but only a point. From what I understand, their screams and grunts and growls are a means of expression that lots of fans can connect to. They are “different” than the more popular means of expression in music, but they still have an impact and… their honesty on the stage is still very, very real.

          Instead of classifying Miku as an “instrument” or a “singer,” I think it might be best to think of a new way to classify her unique position in music. And that way, she might be able to gain her own sense of recognition, while still being a valid resource for both musicians and fans alike. It shouldn’t be a war. It should be an alliance. Like how rock music changed the industry.

  • I like both Vocaloids and The GazettE, and this incident is not going to change that. I disagree with Aoi about Vocaloid music not being “real” music, nas there are real artists making music using the Vocaloid software.
    However, saying that The GazettE are untalented and have only made it big due to their appearance without having actually heard any music by them is idiotic.
    Try this song for instance:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr0YEZd3br4

    Still think they are untalented frauds?

    Also, as a final note, most Visual Kei musicians are butt-ugly without their makeup 😛

  • Yeah he’s so right. And actually I can’t believe all those posers playing the piano, violin, guitar or all those other things think they’re making music.
    Obviously the only real music is the one where you go out on stage and sing while people who don’t even care about the lyrics look at your outfit.

  • So, apparently “the GazettE also uses a wide range of synthesized sounds during their songs”. What’s the problem with Miku then? She’s just another synth, only this time emulating the human voice instead of other instruments. Voice synths are hardly new – Tonto’s Expanding Headband used one back in the 70’s.

  • Vocaloids aren’t artists, they are more like instruments.
    Miku can’t write her own songs, and she can’t make up her own choreography (yet).
    But there are some pop stars, r&b singers, and visual kei singers that don’t write their own songs.

    One true difference, is that Miku can never perform Live, because she has to be programmed in advance.

    However Vocaloid songs are certainly works of art.

  • what I think he mean is they behave like Miku is a real person when she is not. it is a hight difference between a relay person and a animated one but some peoples seams not know now the difference between reality and fantasy.

  • The truth of Vocaloids is we now don’t ‘need’ real, real is now just a choice, and they better start seriously getting used to it.

    Sure I can think of several artists that Miku will never even come close to equalling, those with truly magnificent voices Andrea Bocelli or Josh Groban to name just two make singers that have nothing to fear about being replaced.

    Ordinary no account musicians though, and no real challenge to Miku’s current tech level.

    Round 2 attempt to post.

  • It doesn’t seem to me like he actually knows what Vocaloids are. Or at the very least, it’s not clear whether he’s criticizing their music or visual presentation.

    Vocaloid music are works by artist’s that choose her image to present it. It has just as much merit as letting someone else compose the music while other presents it to the public, pretty much what visual kei bands do.

  • The truth of Vocaloids is we now don’t ‘need’ real, real is now just a choice, and they better start seriously getting used to it.

    Sure I can think of several artists that Miku will never even come close to equalling, those with truly magnificent voices Andrea Bocelli or Josh Groban to name just two make singers that have nothing to fear about being replaced.

    Ordinary no account musicians though, and no real challenge to Miku’s current tech level.

  • While I kind of get his point, Gazette really IS masturbation.

    Also since when is music made in a vacuum? You’re saying that people who compose music aren’t artistes, and only singers are? Or that it takes no skill to make a Vocaloid song? GTFO

  • So visual kei is a bunch of ikemen who get together and make noise?

    Fascinating. Although I guess I can see where the fear stems from. In that kind of band, you’re only useful as long as you’re pretty, and now there’s a contender who doesn’t ever age past 16.

  • not being real music ?

    He already forgot that the song, music, lyrics and Miku voice herself, all of them were created by human.

    I can’t find the meaning of “music” he described.

    Let say, I compose one song, off-vocal.
    He sing this song = real music ?
    Miku sing this song = fake music ?

    • So, five people (2guitarists, bassist, drummer and a singer who is using their real voice mind you) isnt real music?

      Then hell what the fuck is music then?

      Vocaloids are computerized musical tools that sing music that was programed into their softwear.

  • I would seriously like to ask “Aoi” some thoughts about how AutoTune is overused in todays music industry. Any “artist” who uses AutoTune to artificially help their singing abilities is not making REAL music.

    • Yeah i tend to notice most visual kei and j rock bands don’t use auto tune anywhere near as often. It’s usualy just used in parts to give a robotic sound even if the singer can sing. So he probs wouldn’t care what over sea’s market is doing since the singer of his band can actually sing with out auto tune. I’m sure though a fair bit of jpop uses it but stil even less then the rest of the world.