“When You Have Guns, Why Use a Sword?”

raging-schoolgirl-by-combat-bizen-osafune

Western gamers have once again been the cause of consternation amongst Japanese JRPG fans as they dared to question why it is JRPG heroes insist on using swords despite the availability of perfectly good guns in the same world.

The discussion started amongst English speaking gamers:

When you have guns, why use a sword?

“This topic will relate somewhat to JRPGs, and I’ll be honest, I love me some Final Fantasy, but in a world filled with machine guns, rifles and rocket launchers why the hell would you use a sword?
In almost every JRPG involving guns, the main character will use a sword and still not die despite hundreds of bullets ripping through him (or her).

What is the logic behind this? And while some games aren’t like that, I’m just curious to here what you guys think the reason for this would be.”

“Because it’s a sword, and is therefore cooler than a gun?”

“I suppose the sword is still in there because it is symbolic of power, I think.
After all, you get crossed swords on walls, not so much crossed guns.

So I just think they are in there because they symbolise power, and perhaps bravery, as the person has to be willing to charge the enemy…”

“Because the Japs think swords are more cool than guns.”

“To compensate for lack of genital stature.”

“I’m going to give you the only logical answer. Games defy logic (especially JRPGs) just to put that super stupidly impractical awesome sword in your hands.”

“It takes more XP to level up bullets than guns because the points are distributed evenly amongst all the bullets in the clip.

There are two level 10 characters, one with a gun and one with a sword. The sword is level 10 which is highly effective against a level 10 character. The bullets are only level 3 which is not enough to get past the damage resistance of a level 10 character.

It’s simple maths really. I don’t know why the military don’t do proper research on this and train all soldiers with swords.”

“To be badass. Case Solved.”

“Would you prefer playing an RPG where you just picked up a rocket launcher and killed everybody in one hit with it?

It’s way more fun using a sword and casting a lightning bolt and riding a chocobo than just using some lame gun like in every other FPS clone out there.”

“Hardly unique to JRPGs though. Hell, Fallout 3 offers a wide variety of melee weapons, many of which are vastly more effective than most of the small arms in the game. […] Realistically, the guy that wins the bayonet fight is the guy with one bullet left.”

“In Star Ocean: The Last Hope they (kind of) justified why EDGE MAVERICK used a sword. You see, EDGE MAVERICK isn’t too good with a gun, he can’t get used to the slight delay between firing and hitting the target. […] Though it doesn’t explain why EDGE MAVERICK’s girlfriend Raimi Saionji uses a bow and arrow instead of a sword. It was explained that she studied it as a kid ‘because she’s kind of weird.'”

“It’s a samurai wet-dream to defeat guns with a sword. That is the JRPG ethos, also known as gayshido.”

“Are you seriously pondering the realism of a JRPG?”

Soon this discussion spread to the insular world of Japanese gamers.

The 2ch response is less than insightful, with most commentators evidently having trouble grasping that it is the presence of swords and guns in the same setting which is what seems so counter-intuitive, not the dominance of swords as a whole:

“Because Japan is not a gun society!”

“The story is based on swords and magic.”

“Because it’s boring with guns!”

“They’re not really looking for realism anyway.”

“It’s because looks get the highest priority. Look at Gattsu swinging his great big sword about.”

“Wait, don’t they have swords in Star Wars? The setting even explains that they can deflect projectiles.”

“Guns are just tools for killing but with swords you have bushido.”

“Foreigners have no dreams. Why do you have to think about everything in terms of realism?”

“These guys only know about FF anyway.”

“What I’d like to know is why you can be shot hundreds of times in an FPS and it automatically regenerates your health…”

“It’s a game so stop thinking about that stuff.”

“What’s fun about a gunfight? It’s just noisy and boring.”

“A gold sword is stronger than an iron sword. There’s no point in trying to explain this stuff in the first place.”

“Japan isn’t a gun society so guns are part of the fantasy to Japanese, hence both appearing together.”

“I felt it was a bit off having combat aircraft flying overhead whilst troops on the ground were all fighting with swords in FF12’s intro.”

“The combat in FF is really basic considering the tech they have, isn’t it?”

“The movements used in firing a gun are quite small.”

“Because it’s a JRPG. You want some beefcake firing a gun, you play western games.”

“JRPGs have a traditional level system. It’s no good just being able to one-shot someone. Eh? Fallout? What’s that?”

“This is what is called “samurai.” Foreigners will never understand this and that’s fine with me.”

“Foreigners just don’t understand Japanese artistic sensibilities.”

“It’s due to historical differences? American history started with the gun around, but Japan has mythical blades like Kusanagi from ancient history. It’s a historical difference. American history is just shabby.”

“It’s exciting to hear about Excalibur or similar. Not so exciting to hear about some guy’s AK47.”

“Foreigners have no imagination.”

“For Japan, guns always a villainous image, being used dishonourably in traps or to take hostages. It’s about the image. Like with Kenshiro and Jagi.”

“You wouldn’t want Harry Potter to be waving a gun around.”

“It’s because those huge swords just look so cool.”

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819 Comments

  • Anonymous says:

    A blade, no matter it’s size does less noise than a gun and is more stealthy, usually.

    On the other hand, being stealthy is an achievement.

    In the end, it falls all back on the time were guns replaced blades, arrows and bolts back in the 17~1800s or whenever.

    It was easier, faster and cheaper to train some poor fucks to shoot at targets than it was to train someone with sword & bow.
    Yes, the early rifles weren’t so much about aiming, you just pointed them in the general direction of the enemy and hoped you hit someone, but still.

    The first shootouts were highly ritualized, with strictly formed rows and ranks of shooters marching against each other shooting volley after volley and spreading death everywhere, not only were they were aiming at.
    Until sharp, the very first sharpshooter and his squad, Sharp’s Shooters, started to make an impact in the napoleonic wars.

  • Anonymous says:

    sword does more damage to the human body than
    small caliber rounds …..bad guys come equipped with .22 guns and you happend to have you trust kevlar in and out of your steel armor as a hero of course . think that about handle that

  • Y’all completely something, its not about the guns, its about the one gun, the Revolver. much like the sword, the revolver is the Wests own variant symbol of honor. not much can come close to the badassery of a gunslinger, sleek revolver on hand, six shots nothing more, standing out on the town, waiting for the duel at high noon, where one will fall and one will stand.
    why use a sword when you have six shots of nothing but pure power

  • i just saw a load of bullshit, a gold sword would be stronger than a normal steel one, thats not true whatsoever. gold has no where near the durablity of iron or bronze, it would break the second it hit something just a little to hard

  • I ACCIDENTALLY says:

    Both are epic. (guns and bladed weaps in general)

    Both have strengths and weaknesses.

    Though:

    Swords look more “epic” ingame (gunfights are still no match for an epic dramatic swordfight)

    Swords don’t run out of ammo (though it, like the gun, can break)

    Guns are (relatively) easier to use (years of training with swords VS gun = point and shoot)

    In an unlikely, but realistic scenario, guy with gun beats guy with sword (unless sword guy has superhuman speed/strength)

  • I believe in COD Black Ops, in Wager matches when you knife someone it yells “Humiliation!”, and if you get knifed it yells “Humiliated!”. And need I mention the throwing Tomahawk? Face it, even Call of Duty thinks it’s more badass to knife someone than shoot them.

  • Besides, it’s a game. Not everybody wants all gunners’ games all the time, and not everyone would prefer all sword games all the time.

    (Gun game remakes can and will get annoying after a while. Same fore sword game remakes.)

    While games are not always meant to mimic real life to the T, variety is a must. Having them both in the same game caters to that ideal.

  • Gun: just aim and shoot
    Sword: We have slash, we have hack, we have two swords, three swords (Zoro), six swords (basara), seven swords (Killerbee), Hitten Mitsurugi (Samurai X), Shinmeiryuu (demon-exorcism), etc.

  • Oh, look, this news post again. Gosh, I missed it for the day or so it wasn’t on the front page. I was worried perhaps English gamers and Japanese gamers had stopped disagreeing and insulting each other in the process. Thanks, Sankaku Complex.

  • And here I thought that I couldn’t see a bigger bunch of idiotic self-righteous asshated morons than 4chan.

    I stand corrected.

    I saw a few good responses but most were massively ignorant piles of bullshit and the “I know everything about everything” idiocy which is the biggest fault of out species easily, dialed up to damn near weaponized levels.

    Congratulations.

  • In close combat that is what most rpg’s are made up of a sword is far more effective then a gun guns in close combat don’t work to well they can easily be misdirected a gun is a mid to long range weapon if your a foot away from someone wont work out to well if you’ve got a gun and they’ve got a knife/sword every herd the expression don’t bring a knife to a gun fight the opposite expression is also around for the reason I just explained most rpg’s battles are players being ambushed by monsters or random encounters and at the same time its entirely possible for a race to develop high grade technology without ever coming close to anything like a personal firearm and while still having cannon and such for aircraft so yeah guns are your best bet in general but if all you do is fight in close range a sword is the way to go not to mention for sustained fights I’m pretty sure everyone can agree once you run out of ammo for whatever gun you have it’s basically becomes a piece of useless junk

  • It´s not the sword but the user that makes it a deadly weapon.

    The blade usefulness grows in a parallel way along with the user potential (at least really good swords) whereas the guns eventually hit their limit.

    Although it´s worth to mention that there are heroes that make good use of both of them, like Dante.

  • the question is why have BOTH GUNS AND SWORDS at the same time in the same universe, not which is better, you du^H^H^H^H smart-otherwise folks.

    Swords don’t make sense (unless we’re dealing with enemies like those goddamn SuperMutant Masters; but even in Fallout guns are vastly superior to melee weapons), daggers do.

    • Zergs have massive numbers. They don’t care. Shoot one zergling and chances are, there’s another dozen bearing down on you. And all zerg has carapaces meant to protect them long enough to get to their targets, then rip them to shreds.

      And even zerglings need support from hydralisks, broodlords and etc, most of which were ranged units, to keep things from shooting zerglings down from the air.

      As for Protoss? Energy shield and fast movement speed. The shield will help them survive long enough to charge into range (which is very very damn fast) to carve up the marines. And even they need help against the marauders that are firing at them to slow them down with concussion grenades.

  • OK, people who agree to the topic are stupid. Sure in the real world guns are better than swords. But, you’re playing games and there’s nothing says that you’re invincible than killing guns with your sword, right? I know we’re talking about games but, go back to watch star wars, see how cool it is to use swords to kill guns with guns.

  • bah, guns are boring and cowardly… you shoot someone, they collapse like the world economy, and it starts all over again.
    with a sword on the other hand, you’re actually FIGHTING instead of just shooting someone in the face.

  • Yeah, we Westerners have no imagination. Meanwhile your country goes mindnumbingly crazy over the same rehashed music, video games sequels and rip-offs, regurgitated movie clones, dated anime and tired manga sroies all sharing the same artwork… but anything with any true originality is shunned. In fact any person who dares question Japanese culture is immediately treated as a social and professional outcast unless they live their lives exactly like everyone else does. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones at others.

  • Because when all else fails (you run out of ammo) You will always have a generic uber japanese katana with you to save the day. Honestly its just a weapon to kick ass with so who cares but those 2chaners and 4chaners that wanna start flame wars because they are bored?

  • ok
    let say you have an rpg that the male main hero can equip either gun or sword, and your female secondary heroine can only equip far range weapon (scared to go close quarter combat), what would you give the hero to equip, a gun or a sword? (note that having gun will have less defense stat on close quarter combat)

  • hmmm.. so the ROOT of EVIL is … FPS vs JRPG … seriously…

    american heroes are OLD MAN and they don’t FEAR death.. so they have RESOLUTION OF DEATH..

    JRPG heroes are YOUNG MAN and they fear death, beacuse they fear the death, they fighting for LIFE.. so they have RESOLUTION TO LIVE..

    while american game mainly FPS where they want players feel the realistic game so they choose GUNS… cause its practically GOOD in real life..

    while JRPG is based on fantasy.. they want to make every one feel their game through imagination.. and imagination itself making you smarter…

    so BASICALLY American want everyone outside that county become an IDIOT… IDIOT = DON’T HAVE ANY IMAGINATION/INSPIRATION/FANTASY/CREATIVITY… haha… i think every FPS don’t have any STORIES… basically KILL’EM ALL, RESCUE, OR WHATEVER… thats why they choose MACHO… to make everyone BRUTAL people

    • If a YOUNG MAN fears death, then why do most of them rush into battle without so much as a plan?
      RESOLUTION TO LIVE does not excuse being an idiot.

      A person fighting for their life does not usually run head-first into battle bro, unless the battle comes to them, and even them, some type of PLAN is usually formulated beforehand.

      Not fearing death..so what?
      Running into battle like an idiot can be seen on on both sides from BOTH points of view.

      AND there are YOUNG MEN that have more of a RESOLUTION OF DEATH than some if not most of the OLD MEN.

      Try stepping outside your little box every once and a while, brohan.

    • uh…what?….idiot = I can take on a guy in real life with a sword even though he has repeating fire arm pointed at my head cocked and ready to fire….

      In real life..Practicality does not equal stupid…
      In real life..Fantasy does equal stupid…

      But video games aren’t ment to be real…

  • Guns are weaker in comparison to a sword? Swords don’t need reloading? Swords are cheaper to maintain? You don’t to buy bullets for a gun? I’ve actually seen a video of two guys fighting with sword and electric powered BB. Guns are freakin’ expensive in JRPG world. Guns are inaccurate in JRPG. Langua and Irvine from FF8 used a gun and so did Vincent from FF7, so stfu. many JRPG takes place in FANTASY worlds not REALISTIC or SCI FI worlds. i know i’m an american but stfu and roll your damn die to see what your lame ass +2 gun can do. lol.

  • Swords are just cooler to me & some others then Guns are…

    I however do like the idea of a character that utilizes both Guns & Swords…I mean that is just baddass no matter how you look at it…

    In regular RPGs, I see Swords being more interesting weapons then Guns, just saying…

  • I see alot of “Foreigners don’t understand the samurai way” lines then someone says Excalibur is cooler then an ak-47, sorry buddy but Excalibur is one of our “Foreigner” swords not one of your katana’s so you can’t lay clame to it or any other none japanese sword. (I know by Foreigners they likely only mean NA, but I still had to say it 😛 )

  • “Tech plus Ammo capacity equals I WIN!”
    “You don’t need to be a better shot, you just need to shoot more bullets!”
    “Dakka: You need moar of it. No exceptions.”

    1.4 out of 100 rounds jam in modern day guns…and most are point and click…sorry guns beat swords in real life….

    But I try to keep real out of my RPGs 😛

      • Inb4swordscanteither

        Even if a sword/gun encounter actually happens, a sword wielder can input much more variety than just pointing a gun and pulling the trigger.

        So it all comes down to skill.
        They say guns don’t require much time to learn, while sword training takes longer.

        The need for compensating for minute differences in the environment, does not mean it takes more skill.

        If you fired a gun, and a bullet is aiming for somebody’s head, and a second later, you hear that this person is to be kept alive, you’re fucked.

        However, with a sword, MUCH more control is implied over a longer stretch, I.E. Ranging from a little cut to severing a limb.

        PLUS, when you deal with swords, eventually you’ll learn how to hack a body apart WITHOUT losing much durability/sharpness, if not any at all.

        If you hack through bone, and it dulls/chips the blade, then you’re not strong enough.

        Also..

        JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A SWORD DOESN’T MEAN YOU HAVE TO HACK THROUGH BONE TO KILL A GUY.

      • Inb4swordsdonteither

        Duh. Swords have a higher degree of control.
        With guns, you have to compensate for gravity, wind, climate, temperature, visibility…

        Just because you can hit a target under the most extreme conditions, makes it require more skill?

        Then why does it take such a short time to learn how to use a gun?

  • funny that AMMO is an issue?
    Perhaps, because some games impose an ammo limitation to facilitate a sense of realism. Although its rather odd that the exact caliber of ammo that you happen to need in the most peculiar places are laying around in plain sight. And in some games you can carry many thousands of “clips” that would take a lowry to carry.

    As for why, use a blade when a gun is available?
    Well, there are times and places that a blade is better suited for “close-in” fighting. In real life.
    But its is also because of the “limitations” the writers of the game impose on the game scenario, some writers haven’t a clue what its like to do combat in real life, so there are little if any restrictions or limitations a player may have to contend with, in most games.

    However, there are some games, that are a hella pain in the ass to get used to play, play wise, because it was written with realism in mind.
    A labor of love by the code writers, because these things use up a lotta code. That or the producers invested a lot in getting it done right on their priciples.

    Still, I just can’t get over that there are reloads in plain sight that just happen to fit your gun, and that you can carry hundreds or thousands of clips.

    What is missing is a “down time” for a player character,… If it were a requirement for your player to go to eat and sleep some where for R & R,… follow up on a lead & interact with NPC’s that aren’t shooting or ambushing all of the time.
    Its what makes today’s games tedious. To the point that someone gullible enough to get addicted to it will play it till they have heart failure and perish in obscurity, only to be found months later by the stench of their rotting corpse.

    sighs, people,…
    ^_^

  • This seems like a good time to mention that someone once said, it is not the weapon alone which determines the victor, but the warrior. Given that all weapons have their inherent strengths and weakness, and there are excellent and crappy close and long range weapons, when you assume that you have already won the battle just because you have a gun while your opponent has a sword, or vice versa, you automatically place yourself at a disadvantage. Therefore, if you’re going to fight, go with the gear that fits you best. Personally,my rankings would go:

    1. barehanded/gauntlets and grieves
    2. sword/s or scythe
    3. a handgun or two

  • It’s funny that everyone mentions the problem of ammo.

    Every melee weapon suffers the same limited usage. Take a sword and hit a solid tree with it once or twice, then look at the blade, it’ll deform, possibly chip, and most definitely begin to dull.

    It’s also not very likely someone like these emo-teen-heroes will have enough strength to deal any considerable amount of damage with a sword. Muscles are dense, bone is very dense. Your only hope with a sword to inflict mortal damage is to strike a vital area of the body where there is either little bone or critical veins near the surface.

  • Is this the longest comment list in SanCom? The hate is still burning in here so this one may still have a long way to go.

    On the topic.
    A sword is cooler. Look at the amount of special FX put into guns in video games to make them cooler than they actually are. Impossible add-ons on guns are put in CoD and muzzle flash is exaggerated in every game. A sword has that charm in it. It just made you look brave, wealthy and cool. A rich guy can have a state of the art gun or even a golden gun, but all it makes me think of are war crimes/drug traffic war/Africa problem.

  • This may explain both views for and against really well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DzcOCyHDqc

    Anyone played Wilde Arms? Resonance of Fate? JRPGS based solely on guns (Wild Arms has a mix but the force on guns was still there). I thought they were fun! 😀

    I don’t agree with anyone that says guns don’t require skill, they do. Go to a shooting range and try to hit targets at increased distances with different weapons, i’m sure you will waste a lot of lead, just as if you were learning how to train a sword and get beat up by your teacher and constantly swing and miss.

    If it’s a “FANTASY” RPG the reason why guns aren’t a focus is because they just aren’t, the people have just never shown an interest and thus guns are just not present. If fantasy and fun, when guns are present I just shrug it off that the “skill” of the characters “avoid” the bullets.

    The thing about honor is a little bit of a flame war to me, and trying to keep a art form alive and viable in a world where shooting from miles away to kill armies is the norm.

    Here’s the real big point. Put a master of the sword against the master of the gun. Gun WILL win. He knows when to fire, to conserve ammo, heck the real bad ass would let the sword master charge until he’s close enough for a head shot and not a single attack was received from the sword master. If you run out of ammo on the field of battle, your skill is less than the guy with the sword, because you should have been a better shot.

    EVERYONE can swing a sword or pull a trigger, it’s doing it WELL that matters.

    Also their is no HP in real life, you get shot by a gun, “weak 9mm” or not, your not really going to get up afterwords, especially if the the guy with the 9mm shoots you in the right spot or multiple times. The brain (as well as many other body parts) doesn’t discriminate between a 9mm and a .50 when shot.

  • No use arguing with US gamers that disregard any game made overseas. Especially with Japanese games. I’ve read the stupidest things from them like “LOL! It’s anime/ a yaoi fangirl/ inferior/ foreign/ girly.”

    Not trying to offend Americans or generalize but European games are often neglected by US gamers as well and they put stupid reasoning like [[It’s just an imitation of “insert American game here”]].

    • Too many double standards.

      Its okay for Japan to like JRPGs, but America isn’t allowed to like FPS. Europe is allowed to love FIFA, but America isn’t allowed to like Madden.

      Everywhere you turn someone criticizes America. The individuals doing the criticizing also want a piece of the melting pot. Also, you think American games aren’t neglected in other countries?

      LOL.. There is a freaking laundry list.

      • Like America doesn’t have it’s double standards?

        It’s okay for us to have sex in our shows, but the Japanese can’t have fanservice otherwise they’re all sex obsessed losers.

        It’s okay for us to have unrealistic guns, but the Japanese can’t have unrealistic swords or other weapons because “It’s stupid/ not based in reality”

        It’s okay for us to hate JRPGS but America can’t get criticism at all because the other person is a “weeaboo”.

        It’s okay for us to choose celibacy but when the Japanese do it they’re all spineless losers.

        It’s okay for us to blindly hate a game based on various articles from questionable sources but when it’s 2ch they can never be right.

        It’s okay for the US to make assumptions and judgments about the behaviors or lifestyles of
        people in Japan but it’s not okay for the Japanese to criticize America.

        It’s okay when America marches into other countries but when Japan gets into one international incident they’re now all squabbling children.

        It’s okay for us to judge women but when a Japanese person does it they’re sexist.

        • Where the fuck are you getting those ideas from? I think you’re just making up things to bitch about.

          >It’s okay for us to choose celibacy

          No it isn’t. Any male over the age of 18 who’s still a virgin is considered a pathetic failure.

          >It’s okay for us to judge women but when a Japanese person does it they’re sexist.

          There’s a difference between sexist comments by random people on the internet and the institutionalised sexism you see in Japan that actually makes a difference to people’s lives

          >It’s okay when America marches into other countries

          Everyone hates America for marching into other countries, even when the other countries deserve it.

  • The older something is, the more romantic its image becomes. Swords have been around for thousands of years, and are viewed as an “elegant” weapon. Hand held guns are still a fairly recent invention by comparison, only about 500 years old, and have only become practical within the last 150. Still, you can already see guns being romanticized. The “pistols at dawn” scenario, fought with single shot lead ball pistols, is often portrayed as the gentlemen’s way of fighting.

    Of course, in reality, there are no elegant weapons. There’s nothing dignified about a severed limb or a hole in your head.

    • Yeah, in reality, there is no real concept of ‘elegance’, or ‘honor’, not at least the shallow version of them most people in here have.

      If you’re fighting for your life, you should just use what you have best.

      Otherwise, the games can go crazy with weapon design all they want, as long as gameplay is still balanced. Wouldn’t be fun to start an RPG and be able to one-headshot-kill everything from muppets to Omega Weapon.

  • It’s a world of fantasy. Therefore things that work in real life, such as guns, would likely be less effective.

    For example, characters could have some degree of protection against bullets by having a magical barrier that works like a bulletproof vest, except all around the body.

    In this case, when fighting, close combat is more effective than ranged combat, so swords would be a better idea…

    By the way, isn’t there a game out there that has people using bows even though there are guns in the game?

  • I think we’re forgetting the most important. The same characters who prefer to carry a sword instead of a gun, are also often able to make it rain meteors, cause earthquakes and invoke gods and demons during battle.

    The sword is only his “knife”, his real weapons are far superior to a shotgun or a rocket launcher.

  • use swords because it’s cool. anyone can be effective using a gun. with a sword you gotta be extraordinary and uniquely special.

    your character is mostly likely a average person but with some x amazing abilities under extraordinary x conditions.

    under extraordinary circumstances, why not use a special weapon? anyone can use a gun, don’t you want them to be special?

    give the fool a sword.

  • Who are these “westerners” that keep asking these questions? I’m a westerner, and neither I nor any of the people I know who play games would ask a dumb question like this. I’m really starting to get the sinking feeling that the “westerners” asking these questions to 2ch, are actually just 2ch denizens posing as westerners for the sake of perpetuating the stereotype that easterners and westerners are too different for one side to understand the other.

    • Actually, these incidents are probably the result of xenophobic Japanese people who are semi-fluent in English finding one post that confirms their stereotypes and making an entire thread about it.

      Notice that the majority of the Westerners who replied to the original question and were quoted in the Japanese article actually agreed with what the Japanese respondents later said. The people bitching about gaijin being too stupid to understand glorious Japanese culture seem to conveniently ignore them and stereotype Westerners based on the minority who thought Japanese games are stupid.

    • You obviously have never been to an online forum, watched X-play, been on this site for long, or gone to any major gaming website, most Japanese games get a bunch of hate for no reason or flimsy ones, ten people in real life does not equal westerners too.

  • I love guns, I love swords…I’m simply a blade man(depending on the game I like katana or broad swords, occasionally daggers & knives)
    shooting people/things are fun but sometimes I like to get up close and when I have the chance I mostly mix between the 2. Never did like other projectiles though like crossbows.

  • Bakamoichigei says:

    In the kind of worlds we’re talking about, it makes perfect sense. Your characters are fast and powerful, and a gun might not kill what they’re fighting. A sword is a superior weapon in these worlds.

    I actually have a story I’ve been writing, set in a cyberpunk near-future. The main character has equal affinity for firearms and swords. They serve different purposes.

    For close-in work, the sword is better. If you’re being overwhelmed, a sword doesn’t need to be reloaded. Swords are also quieter.

    And in the specific case of my story, in a world of advanced ballistic protection and cyborgs, a bullet might not stop somebody. But a blade made from space-manufactured nano-crystalline ceramic with a mono-molecular edge? That’s some Game Over shit right there.

  • Western People really can’t understand nothing! It just not a question of realism. Japonese characters are always super powerful. When You are super strong and fast, why would you use a gun? A gun will not give more damage because you are physically stronger and the bullets will not become faster. In the first place, it’s kind of stupid to try consider realism in JRPG, They always do stuffs against the laws of physics.

  • Both the west and 2ch simply love to ignore black sheeps like me who think bows, crossbows, slings, etc are all underrated works of art. Too many guns and way too many fucking swords, not enough bows and exotic weaponry. 5-finger slaps for the both of you.

    PS: I like how one 2ch poster said swords are what samurais are about. Let’s forget the fact that samurai were archers at some point in time before Ieyasu pulled a ragequit at his lousy sense of aim and made Japan a sword-centric nation.

  • now, now

    A gun fight is simply boring, exception to fps, but there it’s more strategic and skills.

    smashing through large crowds with a swing of a sword, doing various combos is simply awesome.

    Do that with a gun and most trill you get out of it is when you almost out of ammo, that is if it’s one of those games that gives you limited ammo in the first place.

    Only time a gun is pure win in such situations is unless while smashing through the crowd you fire a huge rocket\missile attack.

    Kinda like DMC, which is a good GunxSword combo.

  • I think a simple answer, from a design standpoint, is that it adds gameplay variety. And it’s not JRPGs I hear this with, there’s similar cases made with Warhammer 40k. I can also cite Shadowrun or Cthulutech, but that’s stepping into a whole ‘nother field.

    what isn’t being taken account in the original arguments, however, is the world the various games take place in, the intended mechanics of the games, etc.

    Well, that’s my two cents

  • seriously… people who ask questions like this spawn the ever so famous thread argument of guns v. swords. Really people, who gives a fuck… Why argue such pitiful points…

    but seriously, why not argue the effectiveness of the close range combatants -monks v. sworders and gunners. I mean seriously, those people are the crazier people flying into real close distance and giving the perp the beating of a life time (which is my favorite style)

  • u guys forgetting there r guns in JRPGs already. FFVIII for example, Laguna Loire has a Machine gun.FFX-2 Yuna uses a in standard dress sphere 2 guns. FFXII Balthier’s standard weapon is a gun(kinda sometimes look like a short shotgun but its just like only style guns like the ones u usualy c in the movies picturing middle age). hell even Barret from FFVII have a minigun as a hand not to mention Vincent uses a 3 shot gun. u still want more? play FPSs then fgs

  • According to u’r comments guys…
    Maybe you never heard about “Lieutenant Colonel John Malcolm Thorpe Fleming “Jack” Churchill” aka “Fighting Jack Churchill” aka “Mad Jack” the Real life English soldier of World War II who Surviving WW II that only using Claymore (sword) as his weapon. he once said d “any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed.”

  • Wow, 2ch really didn’t read the original post. Either that or it was “mysteriously mistranslated,” which I wouldn’t doubt in million years. But still, if they can’t comprehend a simple question like that then it’s no wonder they’re live on the internet.

    I, myself, have no answer. The only thing I can think of is that sometimes you have to go hand to hand but even that’s not really good enough answer. I’m gonna go with the “bravery” comment.

    I just had a thought. What if it more to do with myth than looking cool? You know, the knight slaying the evil dragon of immeasurable might or the like a monk or shrinekeeper using a sword to seal away a powerful demon. I think if we look at it like that then we might have our answer. That’s not to say guns don’t have anything going for them. There is the silver bullet. But guns fall under “machines” and myth doesn’t really have a place among science or technology though I could be wrong. Who knows.

  • Those fools! Why do we use blades instead guns? Because being handicapped is what makes us cool!
    What’s the point of playing video games, if we are allowed to press a button to nuke the enemy’s HQ flat to ground? Also, it won’t be fun if we used a some badass gun that can shoot and kill enemies through walls.

    • Guns can be used defensively with covering fire tactics. Granted its not as theatrical.
      There is also a great deal of skill difference between an untrained shooter and an expert marksman, the same as there would be between a novice and a sword master.
      Thing is that firearms technology is a great enabler. Guns trump swords the same way swords trump bare handed fighting. The hero shows off his obscene level of skill by choosing the handicapped weapon.

      Its why wherever you have swords and guns co-existing on the same battlefield you also tend to have magic, unrealistic abilities, and layer upon layer of plot armor.

      • Swords don’t necessarily trump bare hand fighting. Even a master swordsman can be taken down in hand to hand combat; so by that logic, a sword can beat a gun, no matter how miniscule the chance may seem.

        So you’re saying a sword user can’t use cover as well, but just runs out there like an idiot? UP AGAINST A GUN?

        The same thing applies to both guns and swords:

        “If you know you have a chance at taking down your enemy, DON’T GET HIT”

      • Forget re-educating that idiot, bud.

        “Any fool can pull a trigger.” Irony spat out from the fingers of an ignorant fool himself. Let him be, yo. I don’t think he’d change his mind even if we enlighten him.

  • “This is what is called “samurai.” Foreigners will never understand this and that’s fine with me.”

    Pretty uppity. It’s not like foreigners don’t see the romance behind using traditional weaponry or with other JRPG themes, it’s just that with those themes it tends to get a bit… silly.

    • With a ‘Magnum’ designated ammo .44 and larger, you can literally blow someone’s head clean off.

      With a regular ball 5.56 NATO, you can penetrate 3mm of steel, and bricks about as thick as your house’s wall.

      With a single .338 Remington Ultra Magnum cartridge, you can penetrate 5 layers of Kevlar, and most people don’t wear Kevlar that thick because it’s fucking heavy.

      With a .50 sniper rifle and good sniping skills, you can kill someone over 2 kilometers away.

      With more than 10 simultenously launched hydrogen bomb built with current technology, we can wipe out civilization as we know it. Even after START 2, there are still over 20,000 such weapon around the globe, IF we only take into account the official ones…

      TL;DR: Fuck you weaboos.

  • “They’re not really looking for realism anyway.”

    this guy nail’d it right there. no need for explanations.

    “What I’d like to know is why you can be shot hundreds of times in an FPS and it automatically regenerates your health…”

    ahaha this, if your gearing towards reality. make sure you damn follow it.

    ohh and swords actually is better than guns.

    Beam Katana FTW:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39wcOS9OowQ

    on a second thought. why use guns and swords when you can use FISTS.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC2MvIC4j6E

  • LOL! Putting logic when logic doesn’t have a place in a JRPG game? Ridiculous! Shit if the game only offers guns as the only weapons then that will be a boring game. Swords add variety to gameplay so it will be more fun!

  • If people took damage in RL like they do in mainstream RPG’s from D&D to Final Fantasy swords would still be popular. Except for the anti-vehicle, anti-armor level stuff, guns don’t do that much damage… Except in RL it hurts bad and bleeding internally is lethal. A sword, or even a bow/crossbow can do more damage, but the little that a single .22 can do is plenty to disable/kill. Taking damage like a fantasy rpg character, you could take several hits while you close the distance or shrug off one it from afar, take cover, and use cover to approach the enemy if far enough away to take too many hits before reaching.

    I read a neat article by Gene Wolfe in the “Castle of the Otter” book where he predicted the age of melee and armored cavalry could indeed return.

    It’d need genetic engineering for the steeds and a materials (again likely biological like spider silk) revolution that makes lightweight armor cheap and practical. If you have a band of people with “Horses” that are almost cheetahs (100mph bursts) and can ride over land that’d kill a tank combined with armored riders and mounts, they could easily surprise an infantry unit and smash them with few if any casualties. Close up, even a plain old club/axe is better than a gun if the risk of a desperate rifle shot is minimized. Over time a high tech civilization could rise and fall, but the engineered riding creatures and perhaps the means to make the better armor could remain.

    Oh, and good old fashioned “Full Plate” will stop bullets. Real full plate, not tinfoil decoration at a knife shop. But, try to move around in it. Even peasants learned to counter that by pushing the knight over with wooden sticks and using a “Warhammer”.

    • Noramlly i disagree with you whole heartedly but this post is quite sensible.

      And actually the thing about spider silk can be done with goats supposedly some scientists are looking at modifying goats to produce spider silk instead of milk.

  • Because melee > range forever… DOTA and LOL bears this fact. FPS have melee bore more damage, proof that you can kill a tank with a chainsaw in L4D 2. And that if ammo ran out using fist without proper training is out of the question. That is why every military structure in the world has every soldier bear even a small melee weapon and training on melee combat.

  • Because if the main guy uses guns, they’ll be screwed in close combat.. then in order to avoid players annoying rant about they dying so easily, the producer had to make hueg area for each place… its a pain to do a good huge level that basically, heaven playground for gunwielders, if you have so many obstacles to beautify the area, then it is counter productive to have a large area for them in the first place.. and open playground look shit anyway.

    So yea.. technically, swords are better.

    • maybe its because of what Yajirou Kojima from grenadier said:
      “When you use a sword you feel the weight of your oponent’s life in your hands, when you use a gun you just press the trigger and they die”

  • The simple point is if a RPG offered more “realistic” fighting.. it wouldn’t be an RPG it be a FPS with a really long story line, or a flexible story line.

    Not actually that bad an idea for a game, but its not really an RPG then.

    When a game takes place in a mythical setting (if it contains demons, weird animals, supernatural powers, ect.) Melee style weapons can make a lot more sense. Even in Science fiction themed things. As mentioned before Dune… what good is a gun if your opponent has a force field?

    In real life a melee weapon is inherently range limited. So in a surprise urban situation can effectively kill a person. Thick Jungle as well.

    In a field, on a road, in a naval battle ect. ect. The range difference means that even the most skilled swordsman can be killed by the dumbest of gunman.

    The last times swords were effectively used in combat was WWII. Because of supply line limits running out of ammo was a real problem that happened to both sides. Hence the famous sword battle between the Japanese and the Scots for Hong Kong.

    However if one side had more ammo then the other The one side would’ve used swords and the other side would’ve kept shooting and it be a massacre not a battle.

    In sword vs gun. If the guy with the gun can see you coming from a distance its no competition. Very close range both are effective.

  • If you’re actually creative, the heroes of the future probably have some holistic fields of super-resistance to simple physics of bullets and rockets.

    Meaning they’re all largely bullet-proof and super-evolved.

    The only way to cut through a nemesis is to use a holy blessed as f*** sword. Because bullets are 100x times weaker by comparison.

  • In a world of Magic humans are not so humans as you see in real life. They are highly resistant. Especially to something that is not magical. Even if you empower your gun with magical bullets it’s still magic that will deal most damage. And by going ‘magical bullets’ route you just become playing by the rules of magic — good luck with that.

  • Why the hell does everyone believe “LOL I CAN SIT BACK 800 MILES AND SHOOT YOU WITH MY GUN!”, guns aren’t laser accurate like in most FPS games, you have to account for distance, wind, and the guns natural spread, you can’t just sit back and shoot everyone from 700 yards away unless you have like 5 years of training.

  • Well… the anime Grenadier have a good answer for this I think… I don´t have here the exactly quote but, is all about the feeling when you fight… with a sword you have the weight of the life that is in front of you… the type of thing that you don´t grasp when wielding a gun.

    You know… tou pull the thrigger you can hit just anything. A enemy, a comrade, your dog… logic or not this could as well work in the real world… don´t you wonder about it?

    Just tergiversing
    See Ya
    mr.poneis

  • Put it this way, in most FPS games today you are given a choice of shooting a guy or knifing them and humiliating them. There is nothing badass about killing someone with a gun ’cause it’s gonna happen anyway with someone else doing the same thing, but a knife kill on the other hand…

  • why you ask?

    same reason as to why Jedis use lightsabers rather than laser pistols… it just looks badass…

    or same reason as to playing FPS games… it’s humiliating getting knifed rather than getting shot… XD

    I find this topic kinda… weird… knowing how much America despises the use of guns in games and in cartoons. Now they’re complaining as to why the preference of swords over guns… Can’t they just make their minds up? O_o

  • Guns are easy to use yes, but they’re hard to use EFFECTIVELY, anyone can use one but they’ll probably miss and having a gun or sword is all irrelevant because in the end most “normal” people will be dead in a combat situation.

  • its pretty simple…
    guns have limited power, no matter how strong the weilder is, its always the same power…
    swords are as strong as their users.. so if you’re faster and stronger than a bullet, why would you want a gun?

  • Bah, the English who posted obviously forgot about Warhammer 40k with its Chain-Swords, Power-Swords, Power-Fists, Chain-Fists, Power Claws, Lightning Claws…(and the list goes on.)

    Why melee when you got a bolter which has bullets the size of a man’s head?

    ITS THE COOL FACTOR. 😀

    Hence JRPGs and swords in a world with perfectly good guns.

    • Don’t forget. Said bullets explode on impact. But in 40k, its excusable because often times those bolters hardly put a dent in their targets! Look at the number of times you need to pump bolter rounds into a Chaos Space Marine and see him howling back in rage and shoot back?

      • Point being, in a setting where they have such powerful melee weapons, equally powerful ranged weapons should have been available. Thus rendering the melee weapons obsolete.

        However, you still see them using it.

  • Guns can jam up and require ammo to use. A high-quality sword if properly maintained by a swordsmen can do more irreversible damage than any standard firmarm, unless it’s a shotgun or very high-caliber firearm, which most people will not be able to use properly anyway…

    Also, firearms are brandished mainly by two groups currently: gangs or military.

  • Swords are theatrical, plain and simple.

    Real sword duels often didn’t look anything like the light saber fights we’ve grown accustomed to. That developed mostly as part of the theaters abuse of the weapon as a stage prop.
    The gun will go that way eventually. We’re seeing less realistic gun fighting and more gun-kata dancing with pistols going off randomly in every direction, only hitting a target when the plot calls for it.

    Japan is only bucking the trend because anything with guns = realism, and thus has no place in a fantasy setting. Also their culture is more blade based than ours.
    American heroes always carry guns.

  • “A gold sword is stronger than an iron sword. There’s no point in trying to explain this stuff in the first place.”

    Gold is a soft material which will always give under pressure. It’s a poor choice for melee combat. Guns over power swords in range, power, stealth.

    And for that little exhibition about a japanese sword cutting a bullet. the lead bullets that was used, can be pinched with human fingers and distored, but an metal slug can shatter a sword.

    And lastly, we “foreigners” do have an imagination.. that stays within the bound of reality physics. I’ve yet to see an actual katana slash through boulders or pillars. Also to be able to split apart a huge body of water. It has been demonstrated repeadedly by our beloved 50cal rifles.

    • “A gold sword is stronger than an iron sword. There’s no point in trying to explain this stuff in the first place.”

      Its a damn metaphor. Get over it.

      Metal slug can shatter a sword?
      >Wouldn’t that mean if the sword was strong enough,it could deflect said bullet?
      >Just because a rifle can distort air, don’t mean squat if the user cant lift it fast enough to even take a shot before getting his/her appendage lobbed off.
      >Swords = Short range
      Guns = Long range.

      As for everything in-between…
      It depends on the skill of the user.
      >Clearing a 50m distance in the span of a couple seconds. >Delay on bullet actually hitting target, which means bullet can be dodged.
      >>>Sword swing is a much bigger movement than twitching a finger to force a projectile out of a small space.
      >>>>Do you really want a taste of reality?
      Take a look outside.

      The question’s about content in games, bro. GAMES. Not (usually) realistic statistics. Who cares if it can displace water?

      (Can it give the satisfaction of taking down an enemy, even knowing that, that enemy even stood a ghost of a chance at taking you down as well as you taking on he/she, but you prevailed?)

      Taking them out from 200yds away puts a condom on that.
      Different strokes for different folks…

    • I suggest you read up on multiverse theories and quantum physics. You’re conventional physics don’t work in either spectrum not really. The fact is the laws of physics are NOT constant just lookup black holes or naked singularities. Besides restricting yourself to this worlds rules is juts stupid and negates almost all the fun of fantasy.

    • It’s a joke, and that’s not imagination, “within boundaries” defies the damn point of imagination, if it can do it in real life then it’s not imagination, and besides I’m pretty sure they don’t just hand out 50.Cals and I’m pretty sure you need LOTS of training to use one.

  • Sword or any melee weapon is still needed even now. first is the problem of it will never require any bullet and highly effective in close combat. while using gun or pistol you have to point and shoot. while for sword or any melee weapon you only require to slash and hack.

    Even the US army still implement the use of Bayonet right?

    and you could use a bayonet knife to hammer the tent stake, to use it as a scalpel, in maintaining your guns, and many multi purpose usage.

    you can not use your gun to cook , right?

  • 2ch comments are always hilarious~

    You know, if Harry had him a Glock to back him up with all them silly death dealers. The problems he had would’ve been fewer and far between. Wand in one hand with a slug thrower tapping off fools in combats works for me!

    Also; jedis go down in Hails of blaster fire as shown in the lame third movie when they can’t defect Hundreds of rounds flying at them at once!

    JRPGs “yarps” are cultural projects usually aimed at Local customers so what happens within are relevant to cultural experiences. If some foreigner wants to play them, they must accept that fact

  • Persona has guns.
    And there is always at least on character in the party that uses a gun in JRPGs.
    It’s always tougher to use a sword since it shows real skill as well as power.
    As said before, any idiot can point a gun and shoot, but it takes time to know how to use a sword properly.
    Sword pwns all!

    • Actually, Harry Potter can’t use a gun on the magical side…. because it would fuck up since there’s too much magical disturbance going on.

      I think so anyway, so that is such a stupid thing to say about him.

      • Actually, Harry Potter can’t use a gun because no wizard has any training handling firearms. Nobody knows how to clean a gun, how to handle a gun, how to aim with a gun and how to compensate for the recoil.

        If Harry wanted to shoot a gun, he can’t find someone in Hogswart to train him to use one competently. He has to skip Hogswart and go to a Muggle firing range, and we won’t be having a good Harry Potter story.

        • Nope, guns would work just fine. It’s electronics that get fucked up by the magic around Hogwarts, not unpowered machinery. Every firearm in use and that has ever been used relies solely on the mechanism of the trigger, firing pin, bolt, and the spring in the magazine. Thus, they don’t have a single piece of wiring or electronics that could be fucked up by magic outside of scoped gunsights, lasers and flashlight accessories.

  • Comparing JRPGs to Western FPS doesn’t make sense. Video games aren’t meant to be realistic.
    Historical difference? Most of the swords in JRPGs are Western swords aside from Katana. Samurai didn’t lug around Spatha. Probably more of a difference in Western media. In both Eastern and Western history, it’s an honor to die in battle with a sword.
    Swords are just more fun to play with in a game setting, and they don’t run out of ammo.

  • A sword-wielder has more precise control of how much damage he/she is inflicting on the victim. A sword can inflict damage in a wide spectrum, from a surface scratch on the one hand to severing of limbs or inflicting mortal wounds. It is just a better weapon in melee situations. That being said, guns are useful as well, particularly at distance. Both weapons have their purpose.

      • I actually prefer shotguns and assault rifles over swords. For shotguns, it leaves behind a really big mess when fired in close quarters. For assault rifles? Damn versatile!

        If the weapon does not require that much training to use and is very effective in turning your organs into swiss cheese, I am taking that weapon.

        For now, that criteria is held by firearms. So firearms it will be.

  • so simple minded jerks.
    if every character were to use gun.
    alseif layfon is not heaven’s blade wielder
    Monkey d. luffy is not one piece pirate
    Queens blade won’t have any more ecchi scene of ripping clothes by melee weapon.
    fuck.
    so many awesome scenes need melee weapon.
    only those retard thinks gun is always the best.

  • Personnally, i’m in both. My favorite being a practical bastard sword and a Constrictor. Later is only a marushin replica, but weighty and badassy enough to not require “bang-bang” proof to assert awesomeness xD. Efficient duo, at least amongst halloween wannabee vampires 😉
    More seriously, mêlée combat has an undeniable fun factor given the numerous moves and weapons style you can use, while guns have mostly a limited “point & click gameplay”.
    Excepted in Equilibrium movie, but there, the gun-kata is mainly for mêlée use, which means that handgun is only fun because it’s turned into a mêlée weapon.
    Well, i don’t deny the interest of sniping, as long as it is not in openfields (see Stalingrad movie for good example) but it tends to look like hide and seek.
    Another scenaristic advantages of mêlée : more credible opportunities of opponent comeback after a proper fight, foes can be clearly seen and you more are able to exchange words between blows (insult duels in monkey island as an extreme case)

  • “Foreigners just don’t understand Japanese artistic sensibilities.”
    Sounding gay there sensible guy.

    BTW, didn’t the samurais got the extintion because the were too blinked by proud they ignored the danger of a direct confrontation with guys armed with guns?

    One thing is being smart and another one is being proud to be very stupid to not see the reality.

  • Last I checked, Japanese officers in WWII went charging into battle waving a katana. Didn’t work out quite well did it? So I guess the Japanese have wet dreams about swords defeating guns even though deep down inside they know they tried that shit in WWII and they got raped.

    • You’re wrong. The fact is if the atomic bombs hadn’t been invented we would have invaded by land. That in turn would have cost thousands if not millions of lives per side. No while we might have won we would have ben raped just as much as them if not more.

      • This is not true as if the Japanese hadn’t been hit by nuke and surrendered they would have been invaded by both the US AND Russia.(Russia is also a part of the allies, ring a bell?) Considering the Russians just had their biggest rise in veteran numbers and having enough tanks for each soldier I’d say the Japanese would have been a huge battleground if not for WW2 then for the cold war.

        p.s. the Russian Red Army would have been on par in terms of brutality or more brutal. Loss Loss situation for both cases, the nuke solved it with less losses.

  • You don’t get it either? It’s a man’s romance!

    Really, most games aren’t meant to be realistic (as in real life). How much fun is it to play a game where you sit at a desk and press a button – missile launch, you win. After all, you can’t get shot when you’re thousands of miles away from the actual scene.

    Stop trying to put realism into my games dammit!

  • All things considered, most standard guns japan made were terrible compared to the rest of the world at the time.

    So obviously they don’t understand gun concept and design or use at that.

    Which is why its “stupid” or “boring” to them.

  • Because it give MOAR MELEE DAMAGE!

    But seriously… the sword if the only thing dramatic enough, and absurdly large enough to actually penetrate/dismember the hugeass, 50 ft-tall beasts in rpgs…

    Enough cinematics actually show how ineffective guns are as grunts pathetically attempt to avoid their fates, unloading entire mags on the uncaring monsters of rpgs.

  • A bullet to the knee stops your limit from breaking.

    I’m sorry, I gotta go with guns on this. A steel sword isn’t jack when you’ve got a guy thousands of yards away with Uranium depleted anti-tank rounds aiming at the back of your head.

    There is indeed more honor in the sword but the swords out-dated.

    • That’s assuming you have the SKILL to hit someone from a thousand yards away IN THE HEAD, you want to talk about reality? Well in real life most snipers are NOT trained for head shots they’re trained to hit the chest cavity, and even then try shooting the knee or head from a thousand yards away, try it and watch as you miss because you’re not Mary-Sue soldier extraordinaire.

      • Yeah, how come nobody complains about traditional bows and their difficulty to use either?

        Nobody compares bows to swords, cause bows are already seen as ‘high difficulty to hit shit with’

        Well, that’s why they made guns… You still have to aim that shit though, and you still have to compensate for its recoil, and you STILL have to hold it properly.

        AND you have to know how to clean it properly.

        A sword is like, lol wipe clean. ( nor will it blow up in your hand )

        • Actually, you must NOT compensate for recoil or it’ll spoil your shot. Just hold firmly when you fire.

          A good sword MUST be wiped clean, but also properly cleaned and oiled – blood, or even fingerprints will rust it up badly. Polishing/sharpening a fine katana is an art left to masters, but for a cheaper one, you can do it at home… slowly, with a specialized kit (if you ever see someone tapping a sword with a little ball on a stick, I believe that’s a little pouch of fine polishing grit…)

          When used fantastically wrongly (ie, double or more charge in a bullet) a gun will sometimes, rarely, blow up in your hand. Strangely though, the damage to the shooter is usually just small cuts and bruises if that…

  • If you want to throw out any understanding that games are for fun and should look cool and be fun to play, I guess you could attempt this argument:

    In an RPG you almost ALWAYS are able to get to the enemy while in combat and use your weapon of choice.

    Compared to swords, against normal things like humans, guns are less accurate, less damaging, more prone to failure, and have higher downtime when reloading.

    But of course the reasons include more arbitrary things like:
    – These games trace back to tabletop medieval fantasy RPGs. You know, “sword and sorcery.”
    – Japanese culture has put great significance into swords, and they’re very powerful symbolically.
    – There are usually swords AND guns, right? It’s variety. Some have archers, lancers, clerics, mages, etc. Pick on them!
    – Fuck you, it’s a game, lol

    • >Compared to swords, against normal things like humans, guns are less accurate, less damaging, more prone to failure, and have higher downtime when reloading.
      ___________________

      This is untrue. Guns are incredibly powerful, especially at close range.

      They’re also much faster. Can a swordsman swing his sword faster than a gunman can pull a trigger? Increased rate of fire more than makes up for the small downtime when reloading, unless you’re using a revolver.

      I also doubt that they’re less accurate. You’re certainly more likely to hit someone at close range with a gun than you are with a sword if the other person has a sword as well.

      Mind you, your “Fuck you, it’s a game” argument was very powerful. I can’t counter this one at all.

  • Gunslingers > Samurai….
    AKA
    Lockon Stratos > Setsuna F. Seiei

    Disarming a man from 100 yards away….just looks cooler and gives you that OH SNAPS feeling.

    But both are cool in their own right…

    • Why does everybody think guns are laser accurate COD guns? At 100 yards you aren’t going to hit jack, especially if you’re not 20-year veteran man so no being HUGE ASS DISTANCE FROM OPPONENT does not guarantee safety, the machine gun was made so we wouldn’t have to aim as much, and it costs a shit load of money to fire those so yeah.

  • That’s a lot of opinions and thoughts thrown out there. I’m not taking either side as I don’t want to say nothing about this debate, as intresting as it seems. And I’m just going to ignore every irrational thing said by the people of the East and the people of the West.

    Guns are long ranged, swords are short ranged. Obvious fact, and with fiction, both of them are used in ways that make our eyes widen with excitement. But that’s fiction.

    More debates just come up when someone compares them in terms of realism. It feels somewhat pointless to start a debate that can last for a long time and yet never get anywhere.

    Everyone has their right to their weapon of the liking, some can even like both and don’t care. I’ve no problem with useless debates like this as I’ve always gotten a laugh out of them from time to time. Especially people who think they know a countries’ citizens but are so far away not even trying to think in another perspective. I just facepalm at how much stereotypes are flying around, and although that can get on someone elses’ nerves, it can be quite hilarious to how many people just bash each other and knowing that either side is no better than the others. Just wanted to point that out.

    Sankanku Complex, is an awesome site it is, can be unreliable at times. I can’t always believe what the article says that easily, no matter how much emotions and eupherism are put into the articles.

    I was a bit off-topic but I don’t bother to say much about debates like these. It depends on the person if they like one or the other or both, despite the pros and cons of the weapons.

    • Well, it’s like the news on papers & tv. You can’t just buy what they tell you, but at the same time they’re worth noting as a cautionary act for when you’re dealing with something like it.

      And sometimes it’s just fun to see pointless debates. Though I admit it does get annoying after a while.

  • “You wouldn’t want Harry Potter to be waving a gun around.”

    I lol at this comment. Well, would rather him with guns anyways than seeing him waving swords.

    Prefer guns I’d say. One gun can blow so much damage than a sword can in a move of a finger in a matter of seconds. Plus, it’s modern warfare. People are blazing guns from afar you’d be caught dead in a crossfire anyways with a blade(try meleeing in Mass Effect 2 all the way lol).

    Unless you’re a teleporting demon with superpowers like Dante & his bro. If you’re just human then, swords are so 1412. Though JRPG chars tend to use magic with that, so can’t really say.

    At least we have games from both worlds with each side favoring the other doesn’t. Only means more variety for me. 8D

    • It would be all fine and dandy if everyone’s speaking strictly in the context of games and its worlds.

      However, some people in here type as if their ridiculously old-fashioned thinking should be applied in modern combat.

      My say? Guns are long-ranged. Melees are close. Just switch your weapons according to distance and whatever the situation requires. You’ll be dead sooner if you shut yourself away from one option just to ‘look cool’.

      • That’s why modern soldiers carry daggers and picks as side arms and learn to cave someone’s skull in with the butts of their rifles.

        In case you are ambushed by a guy from around the corner at close quarters, that rifle ain’t gonna do jack shit. You need to know how to handle that situation.

        And what if you ran out of bullets? Again, you need to fall back to melee weapons.

        • I wonder why we don’t see enough ‘hit the guy in the gut with the hilt of your sword’. It’s fast, and it’s pretty effective in stunning your opponent for a nice thrust down the throat.

        • My point exactly. See, even in the middle ages when footmen use swords, sometimes using the blunt bottom of the hilt to hurt someone is more effective than the blade itself.

          These days, battles are matters of quick, split second decisions even more than what they used to be. So big melee weapons are often useless too, the reason behind the use of small blades in modern times.

          There are just so much variable, sometimes with the setting of the game as an excuse for a character’s persistence on using only a certain type of weapon. Of course, the most fun ones are the ones that stick to the flexibility of combat itself that requires said change of weapons depending on situations. At least it doesn’t make a fool out you so much like their stubborn counterparts.

  • Those 2ch racists and xenophobes are at it…again…

    I guess the japanese think it looks cooler to swing a sword. Well, it doesn’t look so cool when you lie on the ground with your sword and a bullethole in the head.

    As for the idiots critisizing westerners for not having an imagination…well, maybe the westerners just have less of an inferiority complex and don’t need to compensate with an imaginary dick aka sword…

    ^_^

  • Because the worlds where swords > guns invariably have magic (or chi, the martial arts equivalent), which means that people with magic/chi can do stuff with things they hold onto/can channel through (ie swords) that they can’t with things that they dont hold onto(ie bullets once they leave the gun). Any logical argument about how guns can one-shot-kill become pointless and a waste of breath once magic’s in the mix, because the rules of physics get thrown out the window.

  • 1. You don’t need cary a bunch of ammo around.
    2. You don’t need to reload, which is not only inconvenient, but it can make you vulnerable to an attack.
    3. If you have a good sword, you can just slice off their entire arm or leg. With that in mind, it’s alomst like a rocket launcher in terms of deadliness with only the amount of delay it takes to swing it again. And that has strategical uses, such as getting rid of the arm that is holding the gun or cutting off a leg so that they can’t run away so easily. Or just slice off their head and get it over with. Swords have headshots too.
    4. It can deflect bullets. Yeah, that would take incredoble skill, but the point is that a sword has the potential to that.
    5. Bringing up ammo again, ammo costs money; guns can end up being way more expensive than swords.
    6. Using a sword is more impressive than using a sword. Guns are point and shoot, while hiding behind cover like a little bitch. With swords, you gotta run right up to them and deal out your blow with raw power.

    • 1. If you’re in the army, that’s what trucks are for
      2. You do need to pull the sword clean if it get’s stuck, and what if you can’t? 😀
      3. Also take into account skill, speed and stamina.
      4. Guns can stop bullets too, also requires incredible skillz
      5. Not if you’re in the army, they provide de bullets and count the budget later. And also… not if your sword breaks.
      6. Correction: Gun users also charge into rooms and clear them with close quarter shooting and knifing

    • Im sorry sir but you are wrong on these accounts.

      1. It takes less than 5 seconds to reload, and you dont just stand still while you do it either.

      2. A 9mm holds anywhere from 6-30 bullets way more than enough to take down a few men in seconds.

      3. This would be possible if it was a surprise attack, but if someone is holding a gun at your head, and chances are if you are holding a sword and they have a gun then they will use it.

      4. No they cannot, bullets travel at around 800 feet per second, there is no way in hell any person on this planet will be able to react. Im sorry this is just impossible.

      5. Bullets are pretty cheap depending on the gun, for 9mm guns they run around the neighborhood of $12-15 for a box of 50 rounds. When it could take thousands for a well made sword of any kind.

      6. Swords are more stylish and in a fantasy world i would love to see swords dominate, but this isn’t a fantasy, in a modern setting i have to say swords just don’t have a place.

    • “4. It can deflect bullets. Yeah, that would take incredoble skill, but the point is that a sword has the potential to that.”

      No. It doesn’t take “incredoble skill”. It doesn’t take any thing at all other than happening to be holding your sword up stiffly and becoming a lucky son of a bitch. You can’t see a bullet fly through the air. Period.

      • Yes it IS possible just incredibly INCREDIBLY unlikely. For instance in moments of extreme duress some peoples senes increase to the point of people moving in slow motion. Ifr this trait were strong enough a person could not only see but possibly dodge a bullet. Although odds are that they would instead of dodge just be able move enough for it to say hit their arm or should instead of heart or lungs. But it IS possible just very very very VERY unlikely.

        • That Superhumans show featured a guy who could split a bullet with a katana (this is a real person who demonstrated it). He’s obviously more than your average samurai– it’s not something a normal person can do, but the point is that it’s not that huge a stretch, particularly in a fantasy world.

        • I’m basing this on personal experience. Ina full rage people seem to move in slow motion. My brains ability to process information increases to an insane degree. While not enough to see bullets slowed down i’d wager that does show that it is possible however it is very improbable. The increases would need to be localised to just the vision centers of the brain as well as reaction capabilities. In short control over what skills are increased. I could also see it burning out the brain however.

          Besides i NEVER saw the matrix well more like i never paid attention to it when my firend tried to show it to me i just played games on my computer.

  • Why did most of those posters just say that westerners lack an imagination? Don’t you guys think that’s an ignorant way of thinking?

    Also on the swords vs. guns debate i lean towards guns, not because guns are superior but because Vash uses guns and he is as stylish as you can get.

  • As TV Tropes would say, Rule of Cool. Also as TV tropes would say, with implausible fencing powers like every JRPG hero has, you don’t need a gun because you can dodge/block bullets with your sword, but your sword will kill things like zombies dead without a question of whether you nailed the head shot.

    As many others said though, if things were really realistic they’d be boring. The same goes for games like Fallout. Realistically, you would never be able to get into melee range, and you would get shot a few times and then be out of commission for the rest of your life–no one wants to play a game like that. There are some things you really just have to turn your brain off to enjoy.

  • The image of guns as cowardice just baffles me. Many ruffians have used swords in our history, Japan also has a place in this. Nevermind that samurais main weapon was also long-range, Bow and Arrows, with the sword being their secundary. They also used lances, but those are virtually no existent in Japanese media.

    For hero with guns, my mind goes to Vash Stampede. Your average JRPG hero doesn’t even come to Vash’s depth and his resolve to NOT to kill.

    This is a case of different values I suppose. Note there are western works where the sword is also glorified, even in our history even if it’s effectiveness was lower to cheaper and more reliable weapons AKA Spear and Axes. Star Wars is the first one that comes to my mind, effective and badass Jedis with sabers and ineffective and crap shootes imperials stormtroppers.

    • I think it stems more from having to fight face to face as opposed to being so far away they can’t hit you. Imagine if vash was a sniper or liked to take advantage of his mad skills. You respect him for his honor something that he has but is normally lost with the concept of hitting someone froma distance. Also recall he does shootouts not like alot of guns are used for that anymore.

  • Why the heck Jedis and Siths use lightsabers when they can shoot their force and lightning further than laser guns? Force and Force Lightnings can be used as crowd control more effectively than laser guns.

    Why do the military make their soldiers carry knives when they already have guns? It’s a dead-weight they should just make their soldiers carry more bullets instead. Yeah, a whole backpack full of bullets wouldn’t be so bad.

  • Why do you need guns and swords when you have perfectly good H-bombs? With our lack of imagination its a wonder the west ever created a country and single handedly changed the way warfare is conducted. We could never think up something as illogical as guns and swords occupying the same technological plane with equal standards of performance.
    Not to say these games weren’t fun or that the east isn’t obsessed with antiquity and trying to merge it with progressive new age ideas, but when did it occur to anybody that moe is conquering the world?!

  • everything had their own ups and down, its just a troll posting… say that to diablo and god of war and all western games, they all use sword because wielding a sword has extra enhancement of COOL FACTOR +100

  • “Wait, don’t they have swords in Star Wars? The setting even explains that they can deflect projectiles.”

    best one..

    what rpg class is a jedi without the beam saber?…

    1- Force Welder
    2- Priest?
    3- Telekinetick user?

  • “Guns are just tools for killing but with swords you have bushido.”

    Bullshit. A sword is a weapon, it is a tool for killing. Nothing more, nothing less.

    “Foreigners have no dreams.”

    127.264.438 people living in japan (2008)
    Estimated World Population: 6,892 Billion

    = roughly 6.764.735.562 foreigners in the world from the Japanese pov




  • Yet the Japanese forget that Samurai use both swords and archery in combat depending on the situation.

    Being picky with weapons is for philosophy, not warfare.

    So really: “Why only limit yourself to one or the other, when you can have BOTH?”

  • “Would you prefer playing an RPG where you just picked up a rocket launcher and killed everybody in one hit with it?”

    this is stupid. you need at least 30 seconds until you done with this rocket launcher bullshit reloading. with sword you don’t need reload and it’s easy to carry anywhere.

    and in a mythical magic and spirit era you don’t use a fucking gun

      • The answer for a zombie apocalypse is…..a shovel. If you have a lawn, you have a shovel. You don’t need to clean it. You don’t need to sharpen it. You just swing it and bash some skulls in. You only need to worry about swinging it too hard and break it.

    • but you need to be close enough to use, wich usually means at arm reach of the zombies, and its zombie pals, need to have enough space, its heavy, requires a lot of training to be cost effective.

      in a zombie apocalipse 1st guns, then a machete.

    • Actually, most sissies would end up with a broken wrist if they fired a gun without training. Can’t any sissy also stab or cut a person?

      The real answer, naturally, is that any -true- MC will be using both guns and swords.

  • Also, if we look at turn-based RPG’s such as Final Fantasy, imagine every character was using a gun, all the attack animations would be a character standing and shooting and every damage animation will be a character standing and shacking with some cool bullet hitting metal effect.

    Also, now if it was only guns, then the characters should always sit behind a cover as that would be more logical.. man how stupid.

  • If I’m not too out of place to quote Immortal Technique…

    “any bitch nigga with a gun can bust slugs…
    but only a real thug can stab someone till they die
    standing in front of them, staring straight into their eyes”

    Says the crazy Peruvian nigga from AMURAKUH…
    This is probably the reason why Ryoko Asakura uses a knife >.>

  • I can´t belive this topic even exists, this are damn video games, why do you need reality, I dont see people playing call of duty signing up for the army or navy, why because 1 shot their dead. Games are for fun, with or without guns/swords, you can still have a good time, all you really need is good gameplay and story, or simply even mini games like some of mario´s ones, which does not use any weapons at all, I play both RPGs and shooters, why because those are things I dont plan on doing on real life, sports games now the ones who play these, get off your house and do those damn sports ¬¬, those are things that wont kill you but make you heathier.

    • You’ve clearly never seen what happens when someone is shot in the head with a shotgun or high-powered rifle. It’s a lot scarier than seeing a limb get cut off.

      Guns don’t always make neat little holes like they do in Hollywood; they often blast people’s faces apart so badly that it’s only recognisable as human when you see an eye floating in the middle of the bloody and deformed mess.

  • Swords are cooler, unless it’s a revolver. Actually I still find Swords cooler. I guess it cooler cause a sword probably requires more skill to use or at least from our prospective. Revolvers are cool cause they only have 6 bullets. I think it’s pretty stupid that a game wouldn’t be enjoyable because it does not pretend to be real.

  • Using a bladed weapon is viable in a realistic western setting too, it’s just not going to be the main weapon. 😉

    In a Japanese setting though, a bladed weapon may well be the main weapon, as guns are not really available unless you are in the military, law enforcement or a criminal gang (or your grandfather still has his ancient old pre-weapon law rifle in his closet).

    So characters wielding guns in a “Japanese themed” game are mostly either associated with one of the aforementioned groups or are ‘foreigners’ (and likely not the main characters).

    Basically gun usage is part of the character design. It’s all based on stereotypes. And it’s not much different in western games (where the main guy is likely a muscle-bound, middle aged man wielding guns, etc).

  • “It’s exciting to hear about Excalibur os similar. Not so exciting to hear about some guy’s AK47.”

    for this comment i would love to hear about someones ak47. the power that it shots sounds so astonishingly i would fuck its barrel. but for this post i do have good imagination too and love the katana all the way but still really? can you block one thousand bullets coming at you with just a sword? what they said about star wars they didn’t even block 500 bullets at them most likely they only blocked about 20 to 30 bullets of it and its not even bullets its lasers. i guess someone is like god and could block as many bullets he can ;]

    • Well, sure, guns are amazing and it’s one of the most effective weapons. I love guns too, however, there’s something more exciting about blades. Moreover, to use a blade you have to have some skills and do lots of training, then you can do awesome tricks with it, and you have to be brave enough to come close to an enemy. Anybody is brave enough to shoot from distance where an enemy can’t hit you back.

      I wouldn’t want guns in my RPGs. Of course FPSs are different thing – I hate when I use up all ammo and only a knife remains, damn. 😀

  • Americans tend to be hung up on their entertainment being realistic. This is so in movies TV shows and games. Even when some things are a stretch they like the rest to be realistic so it is more believable. The Japanese do not have this hang up. Entertainment is just entertainment and if it is supper realistic what is the point we live in the real world why does entertainment have to mimic it so closely. I think this is the main issue in all these cases. Like why are the hero’s not macho men with guns but emo teens and little girls in pastel. The Japanese just like to suspend their disbelief more than Americans do.

  • Typical that even Japanese are not aware of their on country’s history with guns. The Tokugawa Daimyo purchased guns from the European traders and used them in there war to become the shogunate. After wards guns was outlawed in the country and all foreigners were to be killed on site if they step foot on Japanese soil. Not only did guns give Japan the Tokugawa Shogunate, but it also gave them a thick xenophobia of anyone not from there country.

  • BloodyNights says:

    Because their is no substitute, for taking your giant epic sword, and slashing some guy who thinks he is bad ass with his gun, arm off, and watching he blood fly.

    On a side note, Guns actually look cool some times too, but nothing replaces that cold steel :3

  • Its pretty pbvious that its for style reasons. The way I see it, realism always stands on the way of style. If Devil May Cry was realistic (with the execption of demons exsisting ofc) then Dante would have gotten hes ass kicked in 2 seconds, and it wouldnt have been nearly as cool as thee game is. I still question why does any work of fiction have to be realistic? Also you dont get much more badass then gun and swords at the same time.

    • Yeah I don’t think Dante would’ve gotten his ass kicked in two seconds if it was “realistic” keep in mind he does know how to use a sword as well that’s why he uses one so it’s a bit unlikely especially if he’s holding the sword and shooting at the same time.

  • They use swords sometimes because it’s fantasy. Swords are the most over-romanticized weapons ever. They were hardly ever used in actual war, but they still get all the love because of fairy tales and mythology.