Nintendo apparently intends to eliminate piracy on its new 3DS with a suite of measures “too sophisticated to explain,” according to one bamboozled publisher.
Publisher THQ’s executive VP of global publishing is clear that in his view piracy has made DS publishing non-viable and that Nintendo’s efforts to stymie it in the new 3DS are essential if the console is to succeed:
“What excites me even more [than 3DS games] is that there’s technology built in that device to really combat piracy.
The problem with the DS market in the last few years, particularly with the DS Lite, is that it’s just been attacked by piracy. It’s made it almost impossible to shift any significant volume. The DSi combated it a little bit, but the 3DS has taken that a step further.
I actually asked Nintendo to explain the technology and they said it’s very difficult to do so because it’s so sophisticated. They combated the piracy on DSi, which they don’t believe is cracked yet – but they know they’ve been hurt across the world and they believe the 3DS has got technology that can stop that.
Therefore the opportunity for people to invest more in product development [on the system] and bring more 3DS products to market comes out of that. It’s going to probably cost us more to do it all in 3D – so we want to make sure we get a return on our investment when we do it.”
“Too sophisticated for us to explain it to you” – for one of THQ’s executives to accept so vapid an explanation this either indicates an extraordinary amount of trust in Nintendo, an even more extraordinary level of gullibility, or perhaps both.
Whilst most such promises of uncrackable protection have only seen the inevitable delayed, it is notable that the PS3 remains uncracked, so the commonly bleated pirate refrain that “no protection is uncrackable” may yet have to be discarded.
Top 10 Most Followed Seiyuu
Wonder Festival 2012 Winter Wondrous As Ever
Ciel nosurge: “Your Date With Ion = $170″
Nisemonogatari – “Where Did All The Ero Go!?”
Police Hunt Ushijima for “Public Indecency”
Cops Bust Cop in Nude BDSM Club Raid
K-ON! “Causes Keionbu Girl Band Boom”
Vippers vs Vankers: 2ch Targets “Korean Propaganda”
Overflow Delays “Final” Game: “We Are Not Going Bankrupt!”
Ritsu Topless Manga Time – “She Has Boobs After All!”
Top 10 Most Boring Anime of Winter 2012
Behold: The ONACOUNTER
Future Diary Unveils Eye-Popping Scenes of Sex & Guro
K-ON! Pilgrims Invade London
Top 10 Essential Anime Elements
Lolicon Teacher Rapes Pupils 37 Times, Faces 30 Years
Strike Witches Movie Trailer Unveiled
China Menaced by Exploding Coins
TMA Makes “BL” Tiger & Bunny Cosplay AV
Hatsune Miku Takes Over New Chitose Airport
“Post The Highest Level Cosplay Ever!”
“Share The Cutest Cosplay Ever”
“Dolls vs Figures – Which is Best?”
“Why Do Girls Always Have Such Cute Rooms!?”
Ranka Lee Wedding Dress Cosplay by Tomia
Shoko-tan’s Madoka & Ika-chan Cosplay “Excessively Cute”
Guilty Crown Yuzuriha Inori Cosplay by Sasa
IdolMaster G4U: “Who Needs 3D Idols Now?”
Anegasaki Nene Cosplay by Rinami
“I Want To See What The Vipper Girls Wear To Bed!”
I have an curiosity: Which console and games are more monetarily lucrative?
Uncrackable like PS3 and their games or crackable like DS, PSP and their games?
We need Dark_Alex(Dude who made custom psp firmware) to work on the 3ds.
challenging hackers is always a very bad idea
and btw, you just CANT compare DS piracy to PS3 piracy those are completely different beasts, DS games are MUCH smaller and easy to get, you can pretty much fit all the games released for it in a cheap microSD card making the cost of storing the copy practically 0 (compare with the huge cost of downloading and burning a blu ray disc), the size of the user base is also completely different, the DS has what, 100 times more users ? its a completely different scale
also the fact that a corporate suit doesn't have a clue how technology works tells me nothing about the strength of the copy protection
In other words, it's probably the same as the DSi.
Don't worry, the hackers will explain it for you.
You know what makes me sad? If it really is uncrackable and stupid Namdai decides to release a Tales game for this system we'll never, ever see it in English because all possibility of fan translation will be over.
Seriously, if games as great as Mother 3, Soma Bringer, and Tales of... games come out on this system I will be very sad. Bye bye, fan translations. T_T
Worse yet, it will probably have region locking like the DSi, so you wouldn't even be able to play the originals unless they're designed only for the DS. It hasn't really been such a big deal with the DSi, because there's not a big difference so games don't often go the DSi route (and it's only DSi specific software that can be locked). But the 3DS is a big step... 3DS specific software will be coming in a big way, and that could be locked.
I'm really hoping that Nintendo backs away from region locking stupidity... I couldn't care less about pirating games (I already have more games already than I have time for) or homebrew (I have plenty of other devices that I can program and run arbitrary software on). But region locking will have me looking to crack my system (which is part of why it's so stupid, it just encourages people to unlock their systems).
Gee, I hope it's as safe as my PS2 and Wii.
/sarcasm
Heh. I'm not buying.
I have a Xbox360 and a PS2, both unlocked. The interesting thing is that I only unlocked my Xbox recently and before unlocking I had 3 original games. Now I have 7 already. It would still be 3 if I had not unlocked it, specially after I found out (by playing the games) that 2 out of the 3 were completely useless crap - lucky me I bought them used.
Confident eh? Give it a couple of years.
they said that about the PS3...
maybe all the good hackers are long-gone and grew up past hacking o3o
Lol. They all probably got real jobs by now.
THQ probably took a glimpse at the code, then realized it was a clusterfuck of random code thrown together in such a haphazard way that no one in their right mind could crack it.
They are also probably hoping people not in their right minds aren't allowed to buy 3DSs.
Yaarrrrrr!!!
n1 ... you wont be able to hack the 3ds protection? mega phail. Ubisoft said that their protection was also "a new revolution in copy protection".... well it was, but only for the first 3 weeks xD. After that every game with the ubisoft protection was cracked in like 3 days.
you guys remember how back in the day, no one gave two shits about what console is hackable or not?
now it seems losers won't even touch a console they can't fuck with these days.
you wanna crack your PS3? have fun trying
if the 3DS is just as hard to crack, I'll be here laughing at all the morons 'waiting' for it to get cracked and missing out on playing all the games :D
Nintendo finally pissed-off i think?
Guess gonna need to buy a real copy of Love Plus...
Lol i give them A for trying.
seriously when you think about it, every game system or game has been cracked the only acceptation are the game cube and the ps3 and the reasons on that is the game cube used those small proprietary disc and Blu rey is to expensive and holds to much data.
3Ds isn't any different all it going to do is keep a hacker busy for about a few months hell if this is a bluff a few days. Got to say they got some serious balls to just challenge the hackers.
I'll just wait for an emulator that ignores copy protection. It's bound to happen.
I'm sure a few companies actually believe it too.
I know one company, I was told they had drm on their games. I wouldn't have known it if not told though. I usually make a disc image to make it so I don't need disc in drive. I wonder if they thought that was good enough (the need for disc in drive).
I buy most of my games from Matrix Games (they publish wargames). All they require is a serial on install. They offer updates that usually bust illegal serials of course. No biggie, you don't pay, why expect to get updates that work :) But I can install where ever, as often as I please and never once need to do anything else but use the serial.
That says to me they like me enough to not piss me off with useless DRM techniques.
I have yet to ever see a new game fail to be on the download scene the same week of release. Well accept PS3 games :)
Just like Microsoft said the Xbox360 was unhackable now look mods and hacks everywhere as far as the eye can see, yeah there is the whole ban from Xbox Live scare but like that is going to stop hackers.
They are still using the same system yes? The Cartridge yes? Then we still have a fighting chance. Flashcarts will be out in less than 3 months of the release yes?
Yeah because they've lost so much money to piracy that they can't even bring out new versions of their handheld console...oh wait
Wouldn't explaining anti-piracy measures just get them cracked faster?
But... I want my 3d homebrew, Nintendo! D:<
well i don't give a damn as long as it's not region locked.
Well, just buy the darn games or import them.
yeah, everytime i look at amazon. i have to multiply it by 160% to reach the real price at my country.
though i'm still buying it
it'll be cracked
Did they not know that majority of their console sales comes from piracy? Look at their Wii and DS sales. They're off the planet, and look at PS3 sales, it barely even made it to the ceiling.
Are they not happy about it, or would they rather see their console sales plummet?
How can a sale come piracy? There's no money being exchanged. And if you're thinking about the number of people playing their games, I doubt it's even possible to really count the number of people playing pirated copies.
No friend, he is not talking about the games sales, he is talking about the consoles sales, if its easy to pirate, the games are easy avaiable and more people will buy the console. Now, I know that some consoles are selled at a loss price and that the money came from the game sales so of course piracy bring problems , but I think that lower prices in the games can serve as a incentive to move out of piracy, if I could choose about let's say a $5 pirated game or a $15 original game I would buy the original, but when the choice is between a $5 pirate and a $100 original well...
Nintendo are more a publisher than they are a consumer electronics company I'm afraid.
Some people here says that games are cheap and ask what DS game are $100 or more, well here are a litle list of prices in dollar here in Brazil from the site Submarino.com.br, keep in mind that this prices don't include shipping:
Drawn to life: Next Chapter = $124
Final Fantasy XII Revenant Wings = $119
Pokemon Heartgold Version = $113
Pokemon Soulsilver Version = $113
Lego Batman: The Video = $113
New Super Mario Bros = $113
Mario Kart = $113
Pokemon Diamond = $113
Fifa Football 2006 = $113
Whack-A-Mole = $113
And so on! So yeah, buying original games is very cheap everywhere...
Well what do you expect, living in Brazil? If you have to import everything (my Portuguese is rusty, but that is what "importado" means, right?), naturally it's going to be more expensive...
So Nintendo should make their system hackable for the sake of the countries where they don't officially sell their hardware?
he is just saying games are not cheap everywhere and you should not disregard the price so easily
also you should consider that not only they are 2x times more expensive than us in Brazil (they are around 3~4x times more expensive in Argentina btw and much harder to find) but that the average paycheck in south america is only a fraction of one in the US or Europe, one of those games might cost half a monthly paycheck here
are you surprised the piracy ratio in this area is HUGE ?
Yet most piracy happens in these rich countries like the USA. They can buy it, but what's the point when they can get it for free?
If the 3DS really is uncrackable it's a good measure, because they're left with no choice.
Incoming 3DS games will cost $50 a pop ;)
i bet this will get hacked in few 1 week or even 1 day
3DS You're going down! 3 Dip Shit!
For their sakes I hope it works.
Just like when Microsoft said the Xbox's copy protection was impossible to exploit. When the 3DS comes out, I give the copy protection about maybe a few weeks or a couple of months, it will not last a year.
LOL...I feel sorry for the people that say DS games cost $100. Maybe $100 of YOUR dollars, wherever you may be. Here, in the US, they usually cost $30 ($40 if it's a Pokemon game or something primo).
I'm not rich and I've had no trouble buying games that I like.
As for unhackability....that which science produces can be reproduced.
Perfect copy protection eh yawn.
Nothing like spitting in the face of hackers who only hack for the challenge.
The only people that pirate are cheap cunts. Hackers hack for the challenge of the hack.
Myself, not so interested. 250 bucks plus tax to go back to a smaller screen just because it makes slightly prettier pictures? Not fucking likely. I got 90 bucks for my DS lite which made the DSi XL not such a painful price and I got a massive screen size increase.
My next hand held purchase will be a Kindle/iPad competitor that isn't the price of a new laptop. Because if I can get a laptop for the same price, I am buying the laptop eh.
I won't buy a 3DS if I can't get my free gaems.
already mentioned above they're likely to sell the hardware at a loss to make up for it with the software, so I doubt they'll miss you as a customer.
i'm actually betting that they do something to break even. i mean they have the ability to go balls out and take a loss, but i don't think they will.
Nintendo never sells their console at a loss. As they said with the Wii, they can't afford to, since unlike their competitors this is all they do. Of course, what you ended up with in Wii's case was a console that was outdated the day it came out, which is hurting it in the present, but then normally by now a new generation would at least have been announced.
As far as being uncrackable...well, we'll see. I'm surprised no one has pointed out this gem though:
“What excites me even more [than 3DS games] is that there’s technology built in that device to really combat piracy."
Really? Aren't creators supposed to be excited about the new possibilities of a system rather than just stopping piracy? I think he has the wrong outlook on things if he's thinking about how to stop piracy more than actually, you know, make games. Of course, this would put him in the same head-space as a lot media executives.
I'm sure he is excited about the possibilities of making new games. He just wants to know that people are actually going to fork over money for all of his work.
He's the "VP of global publishing"... that's not a "creator" job, that's a marketing one. People in marketing naturally care about sales first.
its soo soo complex that its soo soo easy to hack!
Worst antipiracy PR ever.
One of the things hackers dislike is when someone claims to have an impenetrable system that they can't crack, ESPECIALLY when it comes from some guy that can easily be seen as a corporate dog.
You make a statement like that, and you're, like, only baiting for sharks that you know would eat you anyway.
Nice job, THQ! I'm sure Nintendo would appreciate your boasting when they find out that it's cracked yet again! HAHAHAHA!
All they need to do is make it so hard to crack, that it would take a single person years to do it.
Even among the cracking community, few have the expertise to crack unknown hardware, and even fewer would bother to go that far.
I think it depends less on the software technology, and more on hardware.
GameCube(for a while, unpirated) = proprietary disc
PS3 = Blu-Ray, too expensive and large
Unless they use a hardware mechanism that is unique to their own product and not available elsewhere, hackers can always crack out the software mechanism.
Nintendo realized this. Probably explained why Nintendo's previous CEO didn't want Gamecube to use DVD.
I give it a month after release tops.
As soon as this DS is cracked, I consider buying it. Or, after a couple of years, like I do with all those other video game consoles. Currently enjoying my SNES to the fullest.
is there a fake cart for the snes? im getting tired of emulaters and want to use a real controller.
You could always get a USB gamepad instead and just play it on your computer.
Remember ubisoft's DRM and how they believed it to be some pretty hot shit? The most piracy produced will be on the console with the most to gain from. Who the hell cares about PS3 apart from some people on this site. Enjoying your monster hunter tri sonyfags? Oh wait the PS3 isn't worth developing for so it got canceled didn't it?
The biggest hackers use linux so why would sony allow the PS3 to use linux in the first place?
Ubisoft's DRM was a means to delay cracks as much as possible. I'm sure they were well aware that someone would put 2 and 2 together and datamine all the server hosted encryption keys. Of course they were saying it's "unbreakable". Their goal was to maximize sales, which is counter productive with telling pirates "don't worry, you will get your crack eventually".
Ubisoft's DRM was anti-consumer. There is NO reason why you should have to have an always-on internet connection to play a LEGALLY BOUGHT GAME, period and done with.
No goddamned reason. Some people visit places where they do not have always on high-speed internet, such as my grandfather's house in West Virginia, which is in the BOONIES!
Exactly, my net would frequently drop out, it's actually a lot better now. But when AC2 was out it was a pain in the ass. Fuck ubisoft, 360 and PS3 users didn't have this shit and neither should PC users.
If that is anti-consumer then it has to be remarked that most PC game consumers are clearly anti-producer - doesn't it even out?
The title is misleading, I thought it was like a metal condom or something.
Basically pure bullshit. Why would anyone discuss anti piracy features before the device is out or at all for that matter? It's in Nintendo and publishers interests to keep their mouths shut.
The 3DS is a new system not the progression of an old one like the DSi. There will be flaws in the software or hardware and those flaws will be exploited in good time. You can't stop piracy on a hand held especially a new hand held. You don't have the resources of say a PS3 at hand.
i think the best way to do it is to release regular update of firmware. but i am sure 3DS will be easily cracked
The 3DS will subsequently contact Police with your name, address, social security number, and GPS tracking to your phone before self destructing...
Shit...
It is already known for it's nasty feature to be connected to the internet all the time and having cameras and stuff. Better to keep away from it, if you treasure your privacy.
Privacy - can't be spelled without the letters in piracy. The added V stands vor victory. Piracy V. = Privacy
Anagrams are cool, did you know that japanese anime is an anagram of 'a japan enemies' and that japanese manga is an anagram of 'a japan enemas'?
The eyes = They see
The ears = Hear set
Slot Machines = Cash Lost in'em
Mother-in-law = Woman Hitler
Funeral = Real Fun
The Detectives = Detect Thieves
Eleven plus two = Twelve plus one
Heh, heh... Mother-in-law = Woman Hitler. I need to remember that one
Hah, that should be made into a hallmark card.
"You know what an anagram for Mother in Law is?
*turn cover*
Woman Hitler, i hope your birthday is a real shitty one!"
I could totally see that selling just for married men/women to spite the mother in laws they hate so much.
"and that japanese manga is an anagram of 'a japan enemas'?"
Well yeah, and where did you drop the 'g'?
Dear Sir or Madam,
a Wizard did it.
Someone will find a way.
the question is, are they willing to share ?
yes otherwise he will have to buy the game and upload to his craked 3DS, but cause no one has uploaded the game to the net -_-
Worse than PS3?
Might be worse than PS4.....
I somehow feel their over-exxagerating. Nintendo has still yet to find a full blown way to get rid of "The Homebrew hacks"
I honestly hope not
As with physical locks, computer security only has to be good enough to defeat your most probable opponents long enough to make it economically not-worth-their-while to spend the resources to break your security.
It's no good installing Medeco locks, if, next to the 'secure' door, there's nothing more substantial than a plasterboard wall.
In the console game world, *commercial* pirates have more economic incentive to crack a system than Joe Average.
And, *commercial* pirates aren't going to tell anyone how they cracked the system (presuming they did so). They want you to buy *their* pirate discs (Helloooo, China!).
Sony, Nintendo, et. al., only have to make their systems 'un-crackable' for as long as they expect companies to sell games for them, and the console manufacturers to get their cut of those sales.
Yeah sony got my peanut butter on that one. I said at launch I'll get PS3 once I can pirate games. Well that was 3 yrs wasted.
What DS game is sold for $100 dollars?!
Apparently, the anonymous that says that "games aren't expensive' hasn't seen the 100 dollar prices they want for quite a few games!
Yes, they ARE FUCKING WELL EXPENSIVE! Too expensive for anyone except Lebron James to buy them all legally.
if it's too much then buy 2nd hand...
I guess it will be harder to Pirate games?
A small portable device with limited CPU power having super sophisticated piracy protection? lulz
They probably do a CRC check or something...
Why pirate? I just buy all my games, it's not like it's too expensive.
You say that because u may live in a place where they actually officially distributed and cost cheap.In my country if costs 30 dollar in USA here costs 70
;/ a reason why the price of games is so high is because of the loss game companies make caused by downloading and if you look well on the internet you can get the newest games for 50 euro instead of the normal 60 and pc games for 40, so it isn't super bad, but you arn't able to buy all the games you want but that is with everything we always want more than we can have, pay for.
The thing is, console business is being done subsidized, meaning they sell it below production/distribution cost and make back the money via the game royalties.
Otherwise you are right, I wouldn't buy a locked down platform either (especially since they removed the other OS feature). The business models are just pretty screwed up in this segment.
I remember seeing an MS comic that perfectly represented this: A gamer is pissed when he finds out that Babyz: Ten Ittle Babyz sells 3 million units. Then he finds Phantasy Star Zero and downloads the rom...and proceeds to rage when he learns that it sold only 3 copies.
If there's nothing but shovelware on a system, it's because the better 'hardcore' titles aren't selling and all of those pet simulators are selling gangbusters. Pirates are just shooting themselves in their own feet, then complaining about it.
Some of the best games I've ever bought were $10 or below, but I'm a PC gamer, so those prices actually happen pretty often for good stuff. I don't get why people are so obsessed with pirating, 'woo free' is usually not as good a reason as 'woo support the company so they continue making good games'. My DS is just being an alarm clock right now, beat Disgaea DS, and nothing else around for it that's caught my interest.
Please also note that most of the games that'll be on this baby is gonna be in 3D, hence it'll probably up a lot more that $30..well, at least for the epic games that is.
This man speaks the truth. Sure, a lot of the better games are sold at the traditional $30 area, but there are plenty other greats (anyone play Locke's Quest?) that are dirt cheap. I've seen copies of Dokapon Kingdom at $9.99 where I live, for example. DS games are far cheaper than most figures I've seen (usually no cheaper than $30 with shipping and handling).
The whole "I'm not buying a system 'till it's cracked" deal is just so much mewling from lazy, neck-bearded glue-sniffers who want to justify their spoiled, self-entitlement issues.
THat's all I've got to say about that.
actually the wii was making allot per console, but you are right, almost every other console lost money.
but here is another thing to think of, ps3 is a bit impractical to pirate for. i believe when it came out, bluray discs cost over 30$ per disc, and even now, they cost a bit, 3$ a disc, nowhere near as bad as before. and isnt 1 core of the cpu devoted to the piracy blocking?
the 3ds to hack it you will need a few things, probably number 1 is to flash the firmware. and 2, you will need to manufacture a 3ds cartage thats blank.
i believe its ds compatible, so the carts will be flash at best. if they aren't, than that is problem 2, but i can handle load times being a little longer.
there are only a few things that i can see that would make the 3ds uncrackable, but at the same time there are ways to circumvent them all, the only reason the ps3 is suck a bitch was because 1 the medium made it unpractical, and 2 the 1 core to anti piracy. unless nintendo devotes an arm to that alone, piracy ahoy.
BR disks are just not so commonly used among other media. No wonder they've avoided piracy for so many years.
By the way, by comparing the game sales which launch on both XboX and PS3 you can also determine the approximate amount of copies potentially lost on Xbox because of piracy.
In theory, game sold on similar stations should be about 50/50, with some games sold less on XboX cus of pirates.
However 75% of Bioshock 2 game copies sold were on XboX 360. It was launched on both consoles and PC. Sales lost due to piracy... myth, or reality?
Source [http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03-11/microsoft-s-xbox-sales-beat-wii-ps3-in-february-on-bioshock-.html]
@alidan "..and isnt 1 core of the cpu devoted to the piracy blocking?"
Technically, one of the eight SPE's is reserved for system functions and the hyper-visor (the CPU dispatches the workload to the SPE's).
In layman's terms, the hyper-visor puts the application into a sandbox + only runs it when the digital signatures are verified.
In other words, it's like a sophisticated application virtualization platform.
Now I don't know the architecture of the DS family, but I guess they are using some form of ARM processor, and that's not designed for this stuff, so they have to use more classical verification methods, making it somewhat more vulnerable, because the applications can directly communicate with the operating system core.
Sorry for too much techspeak.
Why pirate? I just buy all my games, it's not like it's too expensive.
"...asked Nintendo to explain the technology and they said it’s very difficult to do so..."
A hint of superiority-complex?
Try us, Nintendo.
I believe what the Nintendo executive meant to say was "Its so complex, that I dont even know!"
I really don't see the problem with what Nintendo said.
"lol not telling"
Giving everyone a headstart to cracking it would be incredibly retarded.
*look at PS3*
3DS is protected by a small sign inside the system that says "Please don't hack me."
Oh, I have no doubt that it's hard for Nintendo to explain to a "VP of global publishing" of a game company. That just screams not just suit, but non-technical marketing droid. The best you can do with that type is to tell them something is "magic" and hope they go away, as trying to explain tech things to that sort tends to go horribly wrong in my experience.
I'm pretty certain it's both superiority complex and trying to intimidate the pirates.
Considering how megapopular Nintendo portables are... I don't know if it's the same kind of situation as PS3's.
the problem is they don't think in terms of, o scary lets stay away, they think in terms of BRING IT THE FUCK ON
Most humans tend to have the "bring it the fuck on" attitude when you challenge them and attempt to belittle them at the same time...
our bodies are not ready
challenge accepted