Interviews with the developers of Square Enix’s new Nier franchise reveal a bizarre development saga in which arguments over whether western audiences could stomach a typical girly JRPG lead eventually lead to the company making two versions of the game.
Square Enix’s new “Nier” franchise launched with two games, Gestalt (PS3/360) and Replicant (PS3), each with radically differnet character designs for the hero; however only Gestalt was released in the west, as “Nier” – comparisons of the two attracted some attention.
The interview concerning this odd decision included publisher Square Enix’s Executive Producer Yosuke Saito, and developer Cavia’s Nier director Taro Yoko:
Saito: We were initially planning an Xbox 360 target, which we expanded to PS3 multiplatform afterwards. However, the production process turned out to be quite storied.
Yoko: At first we were just doing the youthful protagonist version (which became “Replicant”), but Square Enix started taking talking about international markets during development.
Yoko: In fact, an argument erupted at Square Enix’s Los Angeles studio, over whether a thin looking male character [hereafter translated as “girly”] was possible for the game. For the North American consumers, it was decided to provide a macho main.
Yoko: A heated discussion ensued once the American and European staff were gathered to discuss it. It was said that “A slender and girly protagonist like this couldn’t possibly swing a huge sword like that, it’s ridiculous.” Certainly, if you look at American games it’s always muscle bound mains who look like they play American football.
Saito: We thought that as it’s a new IP, it really must sell, and we were persuaded [by the Japanese staff’s desire to make a girly lead] – we opted to leave the Japanese version with the girly character, and instead make two different versions.
Saito: We did realize that not all international audiences are the same though – it was thought that Replicant [the girly version] might be suitable for the French, as they have a greater appreciation of Japanese culture.
Yoko: That meeting was pretty amazing. A lot of people were arguing for making only the macho old guy version for cost reasons, and we [the Japanese developers] were saying “But if we don’t make a girly version we’ll lose heart and it’ll take even longer.”
Saito: As a result, the Japanese PS3 version only became the girly version, and both PS3 and Xbox 360 international version were the macho old guy versions.
Curiously, the obvious choice of eschewing the entire “Epic vs Enix” problem by just making universally sexy Kainé the protagonist seems not to have occurred to them, although considering the approach they took to depicting her in the US comics this is perhaps for the best.
The obsession Japanese RPG publishers have with supplying western audiences with its crude interpretation of the muscle bound heroes they see as key to the success of American games seems almost pathological – Square Enix actually made two games rather than have to risk releasing an insufficiently masculine lead to supposedly testosterone loving American audiences.
Unfortunately for both supporters and detractors of macho protagonists, the Nier games have received mediocre reviews and would likely have sunk without trace were it not for the cunning inclusion of futanari Kainé – finally proving whether western audiences (apparently shorthand for “American audiences” amongst RPG publishers) really can’t stomach girly androgynous protagonists will have to wait.
Don’t worry, they’ll have the same voice actor as Dante in the U.S version
I dislike girly male characters but it should be refined also not just this dumbass beef cake
I’m a fairly big guy even by European standards and I dont go around going urgh argh me smash, being tall and muscular does not make you stupid and likewise I have more slender friends that aren’t girly at all one is gay but more manly then a team of Rugby players
It’s just like not all japanese guys are these homogeneous in between man and woman guys
The Japanese demonstrate about as much tact when dealing with western audiences in general as they do when depicting black people in their videogames.
Every black person is apparently a jive-talker with an afro according to the Japanese, and every American is apparently a sexually-insecure, testosterone-filled barbarian who couldn’t possibly relate to a male lead who isn’t built like a gorilla.
*sigh*
I don’t think these people have ever actually talked to real American consumers. EVER.
dammn if they really wanted to do this, WHY NOT INCLUDE THE OPTION TO CHOOSE THE SPRITE OF THE CHARACTER??? JUST ONE VERSION FOR ALL AND JUST A BUTTON TO CHOOSE IF WE GET THE GOOD VERSION OR THE MACHO OLDMAN VERSION INGAME. why didn that idea occur to them???
Because then they would be doing something right and SE just cant do that now can they
see korean games as example
I think they should have just released both Replicant and Gestalt in America, but I guess now it doesn’t matter much now as the DLC makes it possible to play as the Young character. Not all of us Americans like the big macho man >.< I hate it actually.
(They ruined Chris Redfield doing the overly macho shit DX In the original games he was a slender guy but in all the new Resident Evil games he's turned into a hulking monster of a guy)
About the Gears of War statements, ironically Anthony Carmine is the most popular character model in multiplayer. It might just be the helmet, but he’s definitely the least manly.
things look sooooooo ugly when there 2 macho and i prefer the skinny one the big 1 looks ughhh
what about cloud?…doesn’t that prove they like them types better over here too? and hes not just macho he is ugly.
yep the west fails with their macho mania
but this design fails even more…
The macho dude fails as a viking. He looks like a third rate viking who can’t plunder shit. The girly guy looks like he has got potential as a viking.
Can’t blame ’em for their assumption. It’s probably right. I know some people that would look down on a game because of it’s feminine lead character.
I’ll take whatever any hero, just hold the angst.
Disregarding the fact that the original character looks just like the typical copy/paste designs that SE does. My issue is why do game companies believe that they speak for a nation of people?
I call BS on their view. And wish they would knock of it off.
They remind me of UbiSoft… they are so damn concerned of what Americans think that they go out of their way to avoid doing what they do best. Don’t they understand that American Gamers like their games?! Are there just too many stupid employees and SE and Ubi who just don’t get it?
If they are “attempting” to appeal to Americans, then here’s an idea… get an American game designer to do the American version.
lol, what they are saying? Tina (FFVI) is a woman and worked completely well in America
westerners and their big mouth
I think the more worrying thing is why the Japanese game developers believe that western audience are so fixated on body image.
Speaking for myself only, I find that where the game has RPG elements (like Nier), the personality and development of the protagonist always mean more than his/her physical appearance, because they have more tangible effects on the actual gameplay experience.
Makes you wonder why they don’t just include both protagonists in the game for people to choose for themselves. Oh wait, Square Enix and player choices (looks at Final Fantasy XIII)…ah, I get it.
I’m sorry but the big guy just fits this game better. Maybe he is a little over the top, but its even more ridiculous to play as a scrawny girlie man with a sword.
stupid! did they forget Cloud from FF7? everyone loved him and he was skinny swinging away with a heavy sword.
I say why not someone in between like Solid Snake or Gordon Freeman.
Not a girly man but not a Conan the barbarian wannabe either.
The macho one looks like a Bleach reject.
Though it I’ll admit it would be kinda awesome to have a main character that’s kinda like Kenpachi Zaraki.
Frankly I’m tired of effeminate boys as lead characters in JRPGs. It wasn’t always that way, but when 3D came around we started seeing these cherub faced, long haired, effeminate, waif-like Loli boys that are frankly disgusting to look at.
Unfortunately, Japanese developers have mistaken this dislike for Loli boys, for a general dislike of anything that is not andro-looking. So now we have Street Fighter 4 with men and women that have muscles like they came out of a cheap American comic book.
Haven’t Street Fighter character designs been that way ever since the Alpha/Zero series?
Why not a character like Little Mac from punch out?
of course: they produce only bullshit games for years now and now blame it all on the characters appearing in their games…
Damnit, square enix! Focus on the gameplay and story of your games rather than camera ankles where you can see the protagonists’ underwear and hourlong cutscenes (seriously, do a movie instead if you can’t think of a way to fit the scenes into a GAME properly)
AND MOST IMPORTANT: Don’t tell us you couldn’t add towns because your graphics are soooooo superior!
lol the american version just looks like a bad portrayal of berserker im amazed he even had a daughter did he just randomnly rape and impregnate a woman
Well, it doesn’t work in this part of the West… I went from sorta interested in a SE property that’s not Final Fantasy to not interested at all in playing as musclebound Gary Busey in mascara.
I guess after seeing FFXIII though, the technical hurdle was far too great to just include both models and let you choose at the start. They should have either done that, or shut up and never mentioned that there were two versions at one point.
It’s funny how these developers changed a game so drastically because they think every American gamer wants a “macho” hero, and then say the reason for pigeonholing an entire nation’s interests is because ALL US MACHO AMERICANS don’t appreciate the subtleties of the lovely and nuanced Japanese culture.
Fucking stupid hypocrites… Japanese interpretations of American society that need to die:
– We’re all whitebread Christians who can’t handle sexually suggestive themes
– We all love MACHO MEN and hate “skinny little girly men”
– We all have guns
– Baseball is our national pastime
I prefer the Japanese version since the English version looks like your typical brainless barbarian.
Can’t there be a middle ground?
I couldn’t stand Gears of War and it’s “ARGH SO MACHO” attitude. The only way to deal with emotional trauma in that game was to scream and punch things.
But at the same time, I don’t really care for the opposite of running around with a protagonist that wears very little clothing and for all intents and purposes is a woman. Just with a dong. And a super oversized sword trying to compensate for their lack of any masculinity.
Why can’t male characters just be somewhat regular looking guys? You know, just a somewhat well built athletic dude?
And for that matter, why does every woman in games have to have breasts the size of a buick?
Preposterous, I’d like to know who makes these assumptions and what they are based in. I’ll be damned if there were people that bought this that would otherwise not have had it been Replicant.
They seem to ignore that western preference for certain games does not lie on character design but genre, they might be putting off their fanbase with these localizations, I know they do for me.
Uggh it figures, anyone see games like gears of war, halo, grand theft auto, they’re always these goddamn ape headed assholes only someone badly insecure about their sexuality would think appealing to play. I find them boring as hell, but the people who play most of those games are too retarded to want to change it anyway so..
you know, usually this “only someone badly insecure about their sexuality” argument is often called by genuine faggots, always projecting their own faults to the rest of the (normal) populace.
SE should learn from kojima production how to make macho character that appeal to western audience. Solid Snake got it all, he’s macho, cool, and badass character. a perfect combination sylvester stalone + kurt Russel
Sylvester Stallone is fugly, lol.
they should have only made one version, and then told everyone, “play this or fuck yourself”
can’t make everyone happy ya know…
nier was better than ff13
there I said it
I’d play the smaller girly-man if he had a smaller bounding box than the macho dude — and thus being somewhat harder to hit.
Lets compare!
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/4/46/Sephiroth_Dissidia_Artwork.png
http://img2.sankakustatic.com/wp-content/gallery/safe-misc-vi/nier-protagonist-concept-2.jpg
Friends?
I will most certainly choose a woman protagonist.
If forced, I will choose a bishonen young male protagonist over gorram angsty teenagers or plucky tweens.
God-damn-Blue-Dragon-Toriyama-kiddie-bullshit.
Would it kill them to just release the game with an option to play as one or the other?
One of the most popular protagonists in western games is just an average dude – Gordon Freeman. It goes to show that you can still step outside the norm and have success, which is something that Square should take note of, having now made countless jrpg’s following the exact same formula. Nobody cares about Nier because the current stock jrpg which is girlyboy-wields-oversized-sword just doesn’t cut it anymore.
at least square should make a macho with better design and just not an copypaste of Hulk.
It’s all U.S.A and Marvel’s fault.
I just dont want a girly faggot, thats all.
Personally, if I’m going to be playing a male character, I want to actually believe I’m doing that. For me, a thin, girly looking yet male character doesn’t work at that point. It doesn’t have to go as far as GEoW roidosaurs to be manly either. I mean, look at characters that manage to look both masculine and attractive, Solid Snake or Guts, Brandon Heat/Beyond the Grave, Alucard, Kenshiro…(though sometimes Kenshiro does cross over to the roidosaurus side, but he’s still awesome). Why can’t we have characters like that anymore?
Times have changed…More and more it’s either massive muscle monster or trap.
Well, it depends on setting if the slim guy can actually swing that sword. When the setting have magic things get out of hand fast.
why not make a character like dante in devil may cry. He is handsome and dont look like girl
i agree. iam sick tired play japanese games which the protagonist look like girl (see magna carta ps2 plz).
But this dude is ugly.
Glad I live in europe
Since when is “macho” defined as “ugly”? Apparently Square developers are equally as stupid as their president. Instead of trying to make girly men why not shoot for “handsome”? With the exception of Dante what else they got?
Oh? Handsome men are generally not favored in Japan? That makes sense, I saw a picture of Gackt and thought he was a fucking woman. How about Square make a good game first before speaking about my culture.
Macho: you’re doing it wrong.
Ironically, in Japan male homosexuality is linked with “Machoness”…
There was actually a joke about that in Final Fantasy VII, you know at the gym by where Don is at.
I guess they’re not aware of all the die-hard Final Fantasy fangirls that fall over themselves for the “girly” men.
Of course not, girls never play video games! Much like there are no girls on the Internet! 😛
(Btw, that was sarcasm for the stupid people)
I think there can be a middle ground between that shota bait and an steroid football player.
Not obviously girly, not macho, just normal.
What happened to normal?
“A slender and girly protagonist like this couldn’t possibly swing a huge sword like that, it’s ridiculous.”
zzzz so much for a logical point of view in a non logical world of game
they will make feminine > macho
eg, spiderman 3, protagonist not suppose to be muscular lol
except terminator 3, antagonist pack a punch with such small body
They are absolutely right of course. I wish I had a dollar for every time I’d seen people complain about beautiful male characters in Japanese games, I could retire right now.
Americans CAN’T stomach beautiful male character design.
I’m just frustrated they thought it wold sell so poorly that they refused to give us both games. I was really interested in the story.
Yes, because it’s not like most Final Fantasy games were a huge success in here or anything… fucking retards.
you would think that square, a company which made it’s money off of girly gay main characters would have figured it out by now.
from what i see, the main party at fault i see here is the American division of square. they wanted to expand their target demographic to those who play madden and shit.
but the problem with this is that those players don’t care about square, final fantasy and especially jrpgs in the first place and would much rather play some other random fps or new call of duty.
i know someone is probably going to get fired.
I guess I’ll pack my shit…
If they were going to do this, can someone tell me what was so wrong with just adding a PLAYER SELECT FEATURE? Just put them both in and let the player choose their preference at the start of the game.
WAIT WAIT WAIT
so they’re sayint that their game is so inconsistent and lacking of plot and character background that they can switch their main character with pretty much anythibody else?
When I read this I had a delightful laugh cause it’s true. The ‘western’ mindset is so biased like that, and I’ll be honest, can’t we have a happy medium? I mean the macho looking one isn’t as handsome as the girly looking one. Just bulk him up to a decent size and you’ll have buyers from both the male and females of our western culture.
Bulk him up slightly and you get the MGS4 version of Raiden which was pretty awesome.
This explains why many game titles never make it to North America..
In my opinion both look shitty.
this.
gay game, “macho” protagonist or not.
The French are girly lol.
“.. Replicant [the girly version] might be suitable for the French..”
Yes, a girly man would be most suitable for the French. Add a white flag to the French version too. They’ll need it.
German’s army was 90% destroyed by Russia’s army when US came to bring “freedom” to the French. In fact you were totally useless and we did not need US help at all :]
Us army just came to steal atomic bomb from the german, and use it on Japan. Useless violence, as usual…
@ Anon 21:49:
No, it was not “useless violence”. It achieved the following:
* Transfer of huge amounts of money from taxpayers into the coffers of corporations who built stuff for the war, which was then consumed or destroyed;
* Increased centralization of power to the government (“It’s for/because of the war. Don’t question it, you un-patriotic asshole!”); and
* Lots of people killed on both sides (unimportant to people with the big money).
These “results” hold true for ALL the countries involved in the war.
“WAAAAR – Huh!
What is it good for?”
(Correct answer: “Makin’ lots o’ money!”)
Hmmm…USA Joied in in 1939… and it finished 1945… if, according to you, the German army only had their 10% by then, then it must have been the most incredible 10% of the whole fucking 3th Reich to draw out the war by 6 more years all on their own…
Either that, or you suck at history son.
Read books, they don’t bite.
The USA didn’t undertake any (big) actions against Germany until D-Day, the Allied attempt to breach the so-called Atlantikwall. By then Germany was indeed, after a series of crushing defeats at Stalingrad, Kursk,… considerably weakened by the Russians; Anon 21:49 was probably talking about that.
You learn your history, son.
Fuck Square Enix. those fucking retards haven’t understood SHIT since they stopped being Squaresoft!
At least hero of Gestalt is somewhat original, being an adult and a single father and shit. Hero of Replicant, on the other hand, is an uninspired prettyboy like in every jRPG ever made. Only shittier.
Prettyboy protagonists are a dime a dozen in japanese RPGs. It’s nice to see something else for a change.
JAPS ALWAYS STEREOTYPE!!!
If they would produce real rpgs, you could create your own charakter or at least chose between different male and female chars…
Btw
Beide Protagonisten sind von gar seltsamer Gestalt. ^^
Shitty Americans with their shitty tastes
I love how foreigners love saying shit like that. You say it as if EVERY GODDAMNED AMERICAN LIKES THE SAME THING. Go fuck you spic, kike, frog and any other possible racist word I can’t think of at this time. (Hint your racism or just bias assumption through your own stupidity sparked that)
Moving along. If the game didn’t generally suck I wouldn’t have cared if the main looked like if he saw a bug he would cry and tell a female to get rid of it (damn that’s just a whole other level of gay right there if that was true). I’m with the people who understand middle ground; I mean seriously you couldn’t just give him like a regular look.
Formula:
Body: average sized mostly the atheletic build just toned
Face: between a young man early 20s or a man close or in their 30s (early 30s would work)
That’s all. Give him a hairstyle and boom you got your less ugly and less boy-woman character.
I do prefer slender protagonist even Im male
who wants to be ugly macho while slender ones arnt any weaker?
nw, One thing for SE, where the hell do u think th e success of advent children come from?
They fail at the fact that people who make these games popular and enjoy them are generally people who enjoy anime and girly men carrying large weapons. Its not that I scorn games with bulky characters(Namcos new game has an awesome looking bulky dude) its just Nier is just bloody ugly. In risk of sounding vain I cannot play a male character that looks that terrible. Actually I usually play female characters in my games so yea…
In these fantasy worlds, being a girly character simply should not work. You are travelling, you never know when to get something to eat or if you have to climb a fucking mountain where it is -30° C. You simply need a bad-ass mustle sandwich because nobody else would be physically suited to survive the epic quest. He is not meant to show the new haute couture but smahsing fucking skulls with his bare fists. Just imagine you are meant to save the world and have to build up a party…despite choosing the trap here, would you take a frail, possibly gay, possibly emo kid with you, or the goddamn batman ?
Only exception are mages, not sorcerers or wizards.
How about scouting types? They can’t be buff since high mass muscles are not flexible enough for them to perform high agility activities.
I’d use a heavy elf. They move silently no matter how big they are. Well at least according to most RPGs.
Or I’d choose Solid Snake. He got quite some mustles and is probably the best scout you can have.
Ah, what was the URL of that “Every time you talk about real-world physics in a fantasy game/anime/manga, God kills a cat-girl / Please, think of the cat-girls” image…?
The OBVIOUS (to me) solution would be for Square Enix to build BOTH hero models (bishi and macho) into the game, and let the PLAYER CHOOSE which one to use.
Many First-Person Shooter games let the player choose from a variety of models and skins.
Quake III had this feature, and it was released back in 1999.
Squeenix, you’re ten years behind the times!
I found it amusing that the developers would “lose heart” and “development would slow down” if they didn’t get to have an emo looking protagonist. I also find it amusing that nobody in the development of this game pointed out that the target audience for this sort of game would most likely not care if the protagonist wasn’t super buff (which somehow translates to ugly). Your typical FPS consumer isn’t going to buy this game anyways.
Idk. I prefer the slimmer one. Kind of makes the fighter have some grace, and look intelligent, pragmatist. He’s got a Sephiroth (Yes I said it) air to him
The other one just looks..HURR DURR I HAS SWORD SMASH SLASH! idk. If they bothered to make 2 versions they might as well release them both to the West as well. Let people pick.
Dude, he looks exactly like sephiroth from dissidia. just try and find his pic from it ; O
Haha @ The French.
Link.
still as popular in the west as he always was.
your argument is invalid.
It’s kind of like they bet on Red AND Black at a roulette table and it landed on Green. =/
I like it how some of the western “pro gamers” here call the Japanese version of Nier a faggot.
Now lets do a little test. First, let’s assume you aren’t an immobile beached whale which describes most of the USA population. Secondly, let’s ignore any wild haircuts on Japanese version of Nier. Third, go walk over to a mirror and look at yourself real good in that mirror.
Grats, since you look more like Japanese Nier than the musclebound and high on steroids “western” Nier freak, you automatically confirmed that you too are indeed a flaming homosexual. Now go get some glittery starshaped glasses and start dancing to YMCA.
Sorry, I mean no offense but are you talking about you self ??? And don’t worry about me since I’m not western and my head are shaved (the weather is way too hot to keep hair long).
JESuS DOESNT LOVE YOU ALL OF YOU WILL LOLiCONS WILL BURN IN HELL!
Lol, sadly this is exactly the case
I honestly don’t know where they are getting this “ONLY MACHO CHARACTERS WORK IN THE WEST!” stuff from. Personally, I have played many games without macho characters that were from Japan and liked them.
“t “A slender and girly protagonist like this couldn’t possibly swing a huge sword like that, it’s ridiculous.””
Oh for FUCKS sake!!
Nier is a game where fucking DEMONS and SHADES and a TALKING BOOK fucking exists!!
You’re going to nitpick over the idea that a young looking protagonist holding a sword a slender person will rarely ever be able to pick up while totally accepting the fact that the game includes FUCKING FANTASY MONSTERS AND MAGIC!?!
Actually, considering the number of multiverses….. there could be magic out there and ‘monsters’ like are in these games.
Actually, there could be magic in this universe and it’s just that humanity has forgotten how to use it after they became brainwashed by the religious cults in the world.
I find it hilarious how you mention multiverses as if they’re science fact and not theory, and then the next poster (maybe you) goes on to mention unlimited multiverses which scientifically has to be impossible due to energy limits… then you top it off by speculating on the existence of magic before dissing religion for not being scientific.
People like you are the reason I’ve lost faith in humanity’s intelligence.
And considering the number of multiverses, the idea that a young slender male carrying a huge sword shouldn’t be that “ridiculous” either…
“But if we don’t make a girly version we’ll lose heart and it’ll take even longer.”
It’d have bummed them out to ditch the girly man?
They’d have nothing to fap to if they didn’t make the girly version.
thats why square enix is actually worse than ever, they ned to work a lot in the personality, sephiroth is a bit androginous but he did well as a villain and thats why square enix will never make an epic and a good selling title like FFVII all they want is to sell the world jpopysh characters with cool graphics with a pity plot
nuff said
Not really, he was pretty 1-D.
Gordon Freeman’s a macho? :O
Having a phD in theoretical physics and regularly slaughters headcrab zombies with a crowbar and murder lots and lots of Combine by lobbing their own grenades back at them with a Gravity Gun? That’s pretty macho!
damn straight
In Japan macho is more gay than thin.
so many people prefer to thin.
Can we have an option between Prissy Faggot and Steroid Ojiichan?
SquareEnix can solve their dilemma on East VS West easily.
Just sell the game on how you planned it to be from the beginning. No ones going to hate an awesome game just because there is a “girly guy” there. I personally feel that SquareEnix is being rather close minded, insecure and racist for solidifying this Macho VS Girly argument.
The only people who complained about character designs are self-publicizing bloggers and western game elitists. They managed to get their western RPG VS eastern RPG biases into the minds of SquareEnix’s developers.
However, even if they did remove their biases, Nier is still a shitty game in the end.
Saito: We did realize that not all international audiences are the same though – it was thought that Replicant [the girly version] might be suitable for the French, as they have a greater appreciation of Japanese culture.
I LOL”D
HARD
“Only Macho Protagonists Work in the West”
Sora and Cloud’s millions of American fangirls would like to say hello.
See that’s not fair!
I want the thin small guy, he’s easier on the eyes.
Japan is so close-minded towards westerners.
I hold that a main character doesn’t need to be macho but reasonable.
If they want to go with a realistic look then a girly protagonist swinging a huge sword won’t work. Suspension of disbelief doesn’t work (at least for me) in realistic games. In a game like No More Heroes, however, I’m willing to believe that Travis can move at lightning speed and deflect a hail of bullets or survive multiple explosions because it’s not realistic. But if it is realistic then they have to give a reason why the main protagonist can wield such a gigantic sword other than something like extensive training.
There is a difference between “macho” and ugly.
Theres macho and then there is “O GOD JESUS YOU ARE A UGLY BASTARD!” I would have prefered the little bitch looking guy at least it wouldn’t hurt my eyes everytime I look at the freaken screen.
Its like a middle ground doesn’t exist or something.
Girl or GAR!
It is the *digital* enterprise I suppose.
The only real good example I can think of this “middle ground” made in Japan would be Zoro from OP.
Those who have seen the anime “One Piece” should know what I’m talking about.
And to be technical allot of these “football players mains” look more like pro wrestlers on steroids.
A better example would be fighters of the UFC
(excluding the more heavier weights)
My AKA “middle ground”.
………………..i hope they sell the east version on the philippines……….(if it’s any good) I DIDN’T BUY FFXIII because they said it was a load of crap(as a game not as a live story)
I hope this doesn’t foreshadow a trend in Japanese development. I don’t really want huge muscley gorillas in all my Japanese games.
What a bunch of BS. I never noticed this whole macho vs girly thing, nor do I care about it. If people are so petty that they won’t buy a game because the main character is either macho or girly they need to get a grip on life. If it’s a good character with an interesting story that is all that matters. I would like to see more female protagonists, a kick ass hot female protagonists will sell everywhere.
In the future people won’t say epis fail but square fail…
Japanese and their commercial sense, lol 🙂
“A slender and girly protagonist like this couldn’t possibly swing a huge sword like that, it’s ridiculous.”
– do they really think that the kids who play it are so intelligent to even notice that…
But I thought the American team was the one insisting that American players wouldn’t like it and the Japanese team compromised? Doesn’t that make ther American division the dumb ones?
Yes “argument erupted at Square Enix’s Los Angeles studio”
…but isn’t it still a Japanese company ?
The western version is much better, that jap guy looks like a faggot.
If they release DLC that lets you play as the Japanese lead, then I would buy the game. Otherwise it’s a no go for me, American Nier is just too damn fugly for my liking.
I kinda like him…. he has character (and this is coming from a girl who used to like those femmy visual kei musicians).
By “him” I meant old Nier btw.
moral of the story , americans are fagots
moral of the story, your a fagot
SE didn’t develop this game it just published it. If they were really targeting 360 like they claim they would have released gestalt on 360 internationally and replicant on PS3 internationally. I mean look at the JRPG fanbase old ps2 users so they’d be cool with “girly” near since they’re used to that type of protagonist. The only thing that kept me from importing Replicant was the lack of english text. Oh and Nier’s VA in english isn’t that great its Jamieson K. Price and on this one he feels typecast for the role.
the girly niggar has pantsu wtf
Like I said, is it really that hard to find a middle ground?
Why does everything have to be either the left or the right.
All you sissies need to stay in Japan!
W0rd!
That doesn’t look like a manly guy. He looks like a tired old man, Square Enix research more on what manly looks like in the west. Failed attempt of Square to make a clone of badass old Snake.
Don’t they ever play Assassin’s Creed? Ezio from Creed II is more or less a bishonen, and he is pretty badass in his own right. Seriously, he who jumps from roof to roof, can duel multiple guards and able to assassinate someone from below, above, in front and behind him, while walking or running. That’s pretty awesome!
Square-Enix has absolutely no idea what their fans want, period. The game is only worth playing so long as it is fun and the story is interesting. Beyond that so long as the characters aren’t ugly it will sell, because while gamers are shallow and often attracted to pretty things, they’re still not going to support ridiculous garbage.
It doesn’t matter which main character they use. The game is doomed to poor reviews because of its poor gameplay and ugly art. Even if they put Kaine in there, the game still stinks.
It amuses me when those poor Square-Enix fanboys start making up stuff about how Square-Enix purposely made a fugly main character.
Square-Enix should just stick to making games that survive on hype, like Final Fantasies or Dragon Quests.
You do know that SE has many development teams? Some are Square and some are Enix. And this was made by Enix team.
There are different FF teams too.
I’d love to watch them both fail.
if u read properly, its the americans in Square Enix Los Angelas that wants a macho male and not the japanese, the japanese wanted a female looking one but the americans wanted a more manly version
whose fault now?
Snake seems to do just fine.
Why is square Enix gay?
I would swear that second screenshot looks like a somehow crazier and armor clad Gary Busey.
tomb raider wouldn’t be as popular as it had if the another stereotypical hero jumping around like a monkey
every male likes porn, fanservice, and tits ON women
no exception unless your gay
As opposed to OFF OF women?
Somehow I don’t think “Disembodied Tits On A Stick” would be as tough of a sell to the western market as you seem to think.
In fact – were I a betting man – I’d put money on seeing the title released within the next year over at Adult Swim’s website.
Japaneses are jealous cause they got small penises, that’s why they call westerns, “barbarians”.
i hate how the square enix president is bringing so much focus to the west now
And in all the wrong ways.
Remember how this is the same company that sent out ridiculous amounts of cease and desist to Chrono Trigger fans in the “West”.
I suddenly don't feel very American.
That's nothing new though.
And let me guess, I don't have much of a choice in this case, either.
I'm sorry, but manly guys are only an occasional fetish of mine. And I'm tired of this sort of thing. I need my bishounen and my girl and boy moe. Stop punishing me Japan for not living in your country, you know you don't want me there.;_;
And haters gonna hate anyway. Both things like Metal Gear and things like old Bishounen Final Fantasy are popular. It's that they lost the epic. Pay no attention to the American comic book industry, it's manly by tradition and not popularity.
If you'll look at the popularity of Harry Potter, Pirates of the Caribbean, and so forth. Heck, even Lord of the Rings got a boost from having a girly Legolas.
FFVII sold massively in the West, and almost the entire cast was a bunch of effeminate pussies.
Also, since when do the French have a greater appreciation for Japanese culture?
France is the largest market for manga in the west, with sales numbers even greater than America. It’s weird, but true.
Yeah i like it. Don’t want more gays protagonist. 8)
Yeah I know who the fuck would want play as that guy who got raped so hard in prison the gave him an eyepatch to cover it?!
i’d rather play as the dude that looks badass and not the faggot thank you very much
I completly agree with you who would want to play as that muscle bound queerbag…
first fail at ff13 and now this bs, clearly square enix has to much time on their hands, i mean common, as you can freaking see we have enough games with ugly mains such as fable 2 and dragon age, and other shitty western games. i think their losing touch with their main audience.
Gotta say this is pretty accurate, unless you’re killing everything the western market dubs it emo as they hate any character development, I argued this with one guy on a vidya game forum and brought up how most people nowadays hate eva because shinji is whiny, he then started calling shinji a badass, then in the next sentence ruined all his credibility saying he even jacked off over reis comatose body.
its pretty much true.all the best selling games in america are have macho ugly men as the main hero
Not a gamer, but girly protagonist would appeal to me more – however I know reason is partly ’cause I’m female…
Partly I never really liked the American ideal of comic/game characters being such muscle heroes…
Sometimes it fits, but too much of it is just as harmful as over-feminized guys^^U
However don’t really understand the fuss over this matter…If the game originates from Japan, a country which traditionally appreciates male beauty and to top is labeled as “J”RPG, then why changing anything because of the Western market…?!
I know profit is the most important, but damn!!
Show some pride there Square Enix!!
News like this make Japan look like a pussy in front of the West…> > So sad…*sigh*
Well yeah because they are pussies. Don’t get me wrong I love the Japanese for all the anime and manga and stuff that they make but the new generation are pretty much just pussies. I mean there wearing bra’s and skirts now. I don’t give a shit if you call there bro’s or what ever the hell it is. Its a goddamn bra.
And you like anime,
You’re such a pussy.
And the Scottish have been wearing kilts since the 16th century…
Just how retarded your point can possibly be?!
You dare to bash the country that provides you manga and anime – which you claim to like?
You should be goodamn grateful that those ‘pussies’ are so fucking generous to grab a pen & paper and draw us those wonderful worlds of several genre!!
Japan never forced you to like or even watch men wearing lingerie, you’ve chosen by yourself to visit that certain article and even though building an opinion is okay, bashing something you don’t understand just because you find it gross is immature and highly uneducated…
Learn to make a point first, kid…> >
(Btw, Anon@12:14 been me, just forgot I wasn’t logged in XD )
i was bout to buy it then i found out the protagonist was changed to some ugly fuck so decided to pass. just to make a point.
XP Me and my friend did this same but I doubt it’ll change much of anything >_>
How about instead of a Bishie or Macho man have a balance, like Kazama Kiryuu from Yakuza.
Or Dante.
mind you that’s Devil May Cry Dante, not Dante’s inferno
somebody should email that to them
why were they looking for the differences in cultur. couldnt they have made sth like solid snkae?
You dont need a bishounen or a macho character, just make him cool and give him some background.
I wish Kaine was the main character…
F*ck controversy and hello futa-loli hentai doujins!!!
Oh bloody gods, that would have been hot if Yonah was her sister/daughter and they would have some hot futanari x loli incest!!!
*massive nosebleed*
I’ll go for that. I’d have actually bought the game if that was the case.
Keep masturbating to futanari until you level up enough to crave Kaine~
no NO shes not hot, shes more whore with a dick then hot
Seriously. Kaine Replicant would’ve sold way better. Men would’ve played because she’s so damn sexy, and women would’ve played for the same reason. I think everyone who got the game JUST played for Kaine. She appeals to western markets more, futanari or not. Tits sell.
Hell yeah, you two..! Exactly what I was thinking!!!
I wouldn’t mind spending 59.99 on a game where you play as a hot futanari girl trying to rescue your cute daughter/sister while trying to control your demonic (READ: sexually incestuous) urges from harming said daughter/sister~
That would have made so much more money if Square-Enix made Kaine the main character!!!
Kainé should have had her own game.
Maybe her backstory would allow for one?
We can only Hope 🙂
Its only a matter of time before they release DLC starring Kaine
It’s a damn shame the western version didn’t come out more like the concept art.
Seems like too much assumed perspective involved that shouldn’t exist.
To un-necessarily expand on the thought: Maybe if they’d release both versions on both platforms in both locations (east/west) they’d grab more of the audience they’d miss by only reaching out to “one or the other” in either location.
all right macho is fine, but why did he have to be so ugly?? he should at least get an appropriate haircut, shit.
Seems to be squares way of showing us what they think of the U.S. “macho” characters. That is, that they are all nothing but ugly barbarians.
isn’t it?
Macho does not mean having to look like Mickey Rourke on a bad hair day…
The girly protagonist was way attractive and they messed it up. That’s my problem with American comic books – the male characters are most often borderline ridiculous looking.
Did anyone read the article on here how in countries with better health care, the women are attracted to ‘more effeminate’ men?
It seems like a complex on the developer’s part because they know that the androgynous character is better eye candy and THAT’S NOT MACHO.
“it was thought that Replicant [the girly version] might be suitable for the French”
LOL
Riiight, because they have an appreciation for Japanese culture, and nothing to do with the fact that they are pussies… Maybe the protagonist should’ve wielded a white flag in the French version.
i’m a french, and a pussy, but i find your assumption shocking :p
>wielded a white flag in the French version.
This is what Americans actually believe
It’s recommended to delve into some serious History books before posting comments that do nothing but shame the author as an ignorant bigot.
Jokes asides Japanese stuff is big in France in all europe actually but specially in France.
More like the other way around- Japanese ppl hold an unrealistic idea of present day France and French culture (think Maria Antoinette + tea + LV). Thats why so many of them go into shock when arriving in Paris for the first time and seeing fresh merde drying out in the sun.
The French got into Japanese culture in a big way back in the late 1800s. Lots of Japanese inspired art and such.
France had a head start when it came to manga, since comics are bigger over there than in the US and have a much better distribution system. But even so, it took them about a decade of trying before manga really took off. Kind of like in the US.
Laugh as much as you want but it’s a fact :
“French have a greater appreciation of Japanese culture”.
And just take a look at the manga market in France, there’s a lot more translated manga in French than in the US even though there is less potential clients.
other example :
Japan Expo 2010 in France (Japanese convention) : 165 501 visitors (figures from Wikipedia)
It’s an officially recognized psychological problem, even.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome
LOL
“For the North American consumers, it was decided to provide a macho main.”
And they’ll be singing ‘Macho, macho men, I want to be a macho main!’
“Macho” doesn’t have to mean “ugly”…
Square Enix are in dire need of a good English speaking translator… Engrish only gets them so far…
“Saving the world…So easy, a caveman can do it..!”
In all seriousness, I cannot blame Square-Enix for this since American TV has portrayed main characters in shows, cartoons and even western games as macho and meaty…
That said, I wouldn’t have mind if his face was covered by a paper bag since as much as I respect him as a father dedicated to saving his daughter while playing the game, I cringed every time I see his face in cutscenes…
But I am more interested in Square-Enix’s very own futanari, Kaine~
I would very much love to see her f*ck Yonah…But Pixiv has yet to produce such pictures…And the closeset one I got to that pairing was the latter sucking on Kaine’s tits like a baby~
Although I have seen some very hot futanari pictures of her and a couple of pics of Kaine x Teen Nier…
It’s pretty damn hot seeing a sexy futanari f*ck girly main characters~
In other news: magic do not exist. Shocking revelations from former God. Stay tuned.
after having played a dozen hours of the American version, im completely satisfied.. the macho Nier guy has an amazing voice actor and a great personality.
you quickly start loving him, so i have no regrets getting the American version
I wonder if the Japanese girly boy is as emo and filled with angst as he appears then.
I heard of the brother/sister relation of the jap version as well. Here’s hoping for wincest development ( or at least some good doujins).
I would assume he’s exactly the same
Unless they made two different scripts which sounds like a whole load of effort I doubt they’d put in
Hot
The Japanese had a bother/sister relationship from what i heard
And this is the kind of problems that cause the best most awesome japanese games to never get translated, cus they think we dont like anything unless it haz a baths of blood and steroids all over.
And the very reason Square thinks this is because of all the whining over Vahn, Tidus, and other protagnists. It’s a vicious cycle and I really wish people would stop complaining about both and just pick one. You want the boyish protaginist or the musclebound, steroid conan the barbarian? Make up your goddamn mind.
I want neither, SE’s silly story telling, clumsy character design and boring gameplay way too harmful for my heath, I will buy games that let me design my own character, the end.
Guess what?
You’re in the minority. The majority of the North American market DOES only like macho men with guns.
Blame the market you’re in for not liking the same games you do.
Or they can just fill a niche instead of trying to compete with all thr other macho men games.
It’s not that we like macho men with guns, it’s that we take a double-take in believing in a world where we see young boys and men hold 6 foot tall steel grade weapons that would weigh half a ton.
And yet having humanoid aliens or the existence of superheroes is somehow more believable?
it’s true though the majority prefer the macho type. it’s unfortunate, but what can you do?
Give the players a choice. Pack both characters into one game, so that they can choose which one they like at the beginning. Or better yet, choose which one in the settings menu, near the difficulty rating.
Or even better, let the customer create their own character by make an in game customize engine so nobody will bitch about how bad the main character look like.
Totally agree. This would have been the most logical solution.
true 🙁 that why we cant have pretty things
This need for big muscular men doesn’t seem less gay to me than the appreciation of cuteness.
He looks like a retarded Frankenstein!!!!
Really, Western males need to be more open with their feelings. “We like sparkly, girly things too. No homo!”
“A slender and girly protagonist like this couldn’t possibly swing a huge sword like that, it’s ridiculous.”
OH MY GOD, IT’S LIKE I’M REALLY READING A LOGICAL STATEMENT.
Yeah… they changed the game because they were concerned a JRPG might come across as unrealistic… in other words, they’re idiots.
i admittedly didn’t read the entire article. but as far as the title goes. i really do prefer macho heros. as opposed to little whiners like capel? from infinite undiscovery and tidus in ffx. but as far as the looks, i could care less. slender and tenacious is just as good as giant and rugged. yuri from vesperia didn’t look as macho as regal(symphonia) or will (legendia), but the character development makes me like yuri more cause he is a super badass once he starts doing his midnight rendezvous.
That’s the stupidest thing I’ve heard all year and one of the evidences that Square-Enix has lost touch with its audience. The good days are over.
Agree totally, so long SE, you were good up until FF7, and then things started to slide…
I would even find it amusing, if it weren’t a line said in complete seriousness.
“A slender and girly protagonist like this couldn’t possibly swing a huge sword like that, it’s ridiculous.”
In other way,seeing that it took so long (story wise) for the big muscular guy to wield a little SPEAR is ridiculous…
And in my opinion,the move in game for the 2 handed sword are realist enough to make it look heavy and hard to swing.
It doesn’t really look like he’s having much ease with it.
either way,this is BS.
The truth behind this macho vs girly version is:
Japanese wants to be called “onii-chan” when westerner are more affected by the father/daughter relationships.
period.
… It’s a JRPG, is anything in an alternate universe with magic and monsters supposed to be logical? I think everybody needs to be given a nice big dose of “willing Suspension of disbelief”
Isn’t the selling point of games the gameplay? >>
Also SE is racist! I hope their company goes under from the crap games they produce!
Damnit Anon.
West is not a race.
SE would be nationalist in this case, or something like that.
Anyway, if this is their attempt at “macho”, they missed the mark by a long shot. Sure, other games have macho, but they also have some part of them that could still be handsome. This guy is just straight up freaky ugly. And they STILL gave him crappy anime hair. If you want it macho, give it no hair or a ton of hair(including facial hair), don’t try to go for the middle ground until you know what you’re doing.
Hey Hey hey, I like Dragon Quest, it’s not my fault that they suck. It’s the Final Fantasy People!… (Hopefully…)
they’re racist but that’s what makes their games sell, i mean if they make a shooter then why make one? america has alot of shooters, and its not JRPG for nothing
It doesn’t matter how big the weapon is, if you swing it around for a living, you’re going to get definition in your muscle. The Japanese obsession with heroes with physiques of 15-year-olds will always amaze me.
That said, it doesn’t really bother me enough to effect my opinion of a game, and I’m sure that is not a rare sentiment. Their game may have done a lot better if they focused on making one excellent game instead of two version of an “okay” one.
Look at Japanese games and hero’s like 10-15 years ago. Muscular than hell.
What’s happened is that Japanese characters have gotten thinner and moodier.
Western heroes haven’t really gotten any more muscular (they always were), and really haven’t gotten more badass.
However, given to epic games like Mass Effect, Western characters seem more human, compared to their neanderthal kill everything brethen 10-15 years ago.
It is a game. Characters in games often shoot fire from their hands, can fight armies and get instantly healed by eating something or just standing still.
Why does it matter if their muscles are big or not?
LOL, just make an obese, overweight protagonist American gamer can identify themselves with.
i.e. Rufus from SF4
so true jajaja jejemons
do you identify yourself with the protagonist in “bad day in LA”?
So we get to choose between a emo faggot or an imbred frankenstein?
Both are miserable choices..
Emo inbred faggot Frankenstein?
…I’d play it.
try imagine sephiroth with muscular body, that would make it
Visible muscle mass = strength. For endurance longer than about 60 seconds, We’re looking for leaner, more effective muscles.
oh man, you truly believe that do you?
Add to that a very gay hard cock.
So Square Enix is basically saying, that a game with a female-protagonist cannot be commercially successful, because all of us have a “man-crush” on masculine, bishonen guys, sure……………..If that’s the case, why was Bayonetta rated favorably in the states. We all know Square Enix is just making excuses because they suck at making games. Heck, they can try add a cameo appearance of Kratos in one of their games, and it’ll STILL SUCK! Why?? Its not because of Kratos, or because we “supposedly” don’t like girls(at least in their eyes), but because Square Enix can’t their act straight; they are not appealing to what gamers truly seek.!
@Dash–Dash is right, if this is the prevailing feeling from some of these Japanese companies, its no wonder we are missing out on some very awesome titles from Japan. America, Europe, and the West are just about shooters you know.
I am going to agree with some of it not all of it.Square Enix sold well with the Hand-held market with Dragon Quest series, Its no surprise that Mass Effect 2 manage to out sell it just because it marketed a male character who look more suave then muscle bound which you can customize yourself.
Square Enix tends to go for characters that are ether younger or cute looking which that’s what they always market in Japan.
I agree with this guy. You’re all gay. Accept it.
The argument was against a girly guy, not a vixen.
You COMPLETELY missed the point
I sort of agree with that analysis of the sword wielding. In a JRPG, you can explain it away with magic or something, but Americans have been brought up to be fans of muscular super heroes who sometimes wield weapons like that.(more long-swords than katana)Also, some of the best selling non realistic games in the U.S. have featured overly muscular heroes.(Kratos, Master Chief, Gears of War guys, etc)
My brother and I had an argument about this some time ago. I was basicly saying I was sick of all the insert muscular war heroes in modern U.S. games. He was saying he’s sick of whiny teens, and that he preferred all the game have the war heroes.
It really bit him in the ass this time, cause he grew to like the character design of Neir before they changed it.
The guys who made Crackdown totally need to snag the Hokuto no Ken license from Koei!
HULK NO SMASH TODAY…
Keep the burly muscular men for war/mass melee games, but put in more slender protagonists for one-on-one combat, tactical and stealth games.
Ooh, but a game where you get to play as an muscleman who PUNCHES PEOPLE’S HEADS OFF would be so win.
Too many protagonists use their guns and oversized swords these days, where are the guys that can pick up tanks and crush SWAT squads with them?
I don’t know about Master Chief. He is never outside the goddamned armor. But I think it’s inferred that he has killer biceps.
If you understood Halo, you’d know he’s a biologically enhanced human, not a cyborg. And no he’s not football-player WIDE, but he is 8 feet tall and has muscles that are literally of iron density enough to flip cars over with no problem.
As for this whole stupid situation, I don’t get why they could just get more sales by giving both versions to every market. There have been different versions of the same game before (looks at pokemon games through and through <_<).
He is not a cyborg. All spartans are genetically engineered to be larger and stronger than normal humans.
he is a cyborg, iirc he is pretty much a normal person but genetically modified with cyborg parts
Do they forget ff7 and how popular it is?
You WANT more FF7 fangirls?
You must be insane.
Who cares? IT SELLS!
More fangirls = more side merchandise sold!
Even if you make a pitiful 5% profit off a game release, if you manage to make 20x of that on side merchandise, you have a bloody gold mine on your hands!
FF7, wee yaay! 😀 <3 <3 <3
Who cares!? all we need is fap material!!
Check pixiv…They have a couple of Kaine x Teen Nier futanari and a handful of futanari picture of Kaine…
There’s even one picture of Nier’s daughter/sister Yonah sucking on Kaine’s tits~
Make sure you put these tags while searching:
ニーアレプリカント
R-18
Square Enix does not know how to make badass looking muscular characters. He looks more like a mutant, rather than a human being.
On a side note, their assumption that traditional skinny protagonists do not work over here is just wrong. Final Fantasy didn’t have any problems selling here with all their anorexic character designs, so their point is invalid. If a game is good then it shouldn’t matter whether the protagonist is skinny or muscular, as long as it fits the game setting.
The manly topic has already shown SE made another mistake. Its looks like the rest of the world and America. Not what they concluded.
This proves they don’t know much about as than we know about them.
“it was thought that Replicant [the girly version] might be suitable for the French”
i loled at this part
He looks bad ass in the japanese one. He just looks like fail in the american one
Both seem fine to me. I would define the tank version as “Badass” and the slim version as “Awesome”. now… in a game like Gears of War in which every aspect is tanky and huge are you gunna have a dude who’s awesome or a dude who’s badass? awesome may still work but it seems out of place. however in a stealth type game you’d want a more awesome dude… awesome isnt kicking in the door with guns blazing cause that’s badass.
well thats my oppinion on the matter anyway.
And Gears of War doesn’t sell because everybody there is macho, it’s because people dig charging at each other with their shotguns, sneakily chainsaw someone from the back and hiding behind cover when a swarm of dakka flies over their heads!
God of war is famous because of that macho sadistic hero.
Not when searching for every hentai of NiER in Pixiv~ You need to put that tag so you can see some Kaine x Teen Nier hotness!!!
you can drop the replicant part of your tag
nier will cover all variations thereof that contain nier in them
I was expecting something more like:
“Have you seen Gears of War? All of those guys are super macho and it sells, all of the american audience must dig that herp derp.”