Google has deleted a site hosting lolicon material from its index in response to a complaint that the site was hosting child pornography.
The site in question hosts scanlated loli manga, and was reported to Google as a site hosting child pornography. Google removed the site from its index (the site itself is quite unaffected) and reported the site to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children as is its obligation under US law.
However, at least one current US definition of child pornography explicitly excludes artistic depictions:
This definition does not apply to depictions that are drawings, cartoons, sculptures, or paintings depicting minors or adults.
Other definitions (there are a wide variety of conflicting statutes) which do not exclude 2D material are usually said to be unconstitutional but have generally gone unenforced and unchallenged, giving lolicon material a murky legal status.
Google apparently did not concern itself with such subtleties and simply removed the site, leaving a standard “deleted results” disclaimer in its place.
The site itself has now been removed from the indexes of all Google servers, raising additional concerns over the global censorship of results based on US law alone.
With Google seemingly acknowledging it has a duty to delete millions of sites with “loli” material, irrespective of their legality wherever they might be published, it would appear it will either have to back down or begin systemically delisting huge swathes of the Japanese Internet (recall that even mainstream publications like Shonen Jump freely publish lewd depictions of underage characters), to say nothing of the wider Internet.
In fact, practically any illustrated depiction of sexual activity could be branded child pornography if this approach were taken to extremes – few could reasonably claim to be able to tell the difference between a 17-year-old cartoon and an 18-year-old one. Abusive and excessive use seems all but inevitable.
Others have pointed out that with the site in question already hosting material in violation of publisher copyright, artists and publishers are likely to be especially ambivalent about pressing the matter with Google lest they end up supporting piracy of their own works – clearly it would have been more desirable for such a test case to be unencumbered by copyright violation as well.
Google’s “do no evil” policy has largely been left in tatters since its abortive dalliance with the Chinese government, but with the introduction of an apparent system of anonymous child pornography denunciations with no legal basis it appears set to become even less credible.
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Just like neo Verona in it's "almost" end days.....
Scary to think that the world we tried to build for ourselves in the internet is slowly being destroyed....
moralfags should be banished from the internet.
THE LAW *DOES NOT* APPLY ON THE INTERNET. NO GOVERNMENT OWNS THE INTERNET. NO GOVERNMENT CAN REGULATE THE INTERNET.
i hate to use this argument but they're jealous of us. they fear us. the internet IS "The Great Equalizer." Rich, poor, young, old, american, zimbabwean, it doesn't fucking matter on the internet. and they want to end that.
Another one got caught today, it's all over the papers. "Teenager Arrested in Computer Crime Scandal", "Hacker Arrested after Bank Tampering"...
Damn kids. They're all alike.
But did you, in your three-piece psychology and 1950's technobrain, ever take a look behind the eyes of the hacker? Did you ever wonder what made him tick, what forces shaped him, what may have molded him?
I am a hacker, enter my world...
Mine is a world that begins with school... I'm smarter than most of the other kids, this crap they teach us bores me...
Damn underachiever. They're all alike.
I'm in junior high or high school. I've listened to teachers explain for the fifteenth time how to reduce a fraction. I understand it. "No, Ms. Smith, I didn't show my work. I did it in my head..."
Damn kid. Probably copied it. They're all alike.
I made a discovery today. I found a computer. Wait a second, this is cool. It does what I want it to. If it makes a mistake, it's because I screwed it up. Not because it doesn't like me...
Or feels threatened by me...
Or thinks I'm a smart ass...
Or doesn't like teaching and shouldn't be here...
Damn kid. All he does is play games. They're all alike.
And then it happened... a door opened to a world... rushing through the phone line like heroin through an addict's veins, an electronic pulse is sent out, a refuge from the day-to-day incompetencies is sought... a board is found. "This is it... this is where I belong..."
I know everyone here... even if I've never met them, never talked to them, may never hear from them again... I know you all...
Damn kid. Tying up the phone line again. They're all alike...
You bet your ass we're all alike... we've been spoon-fed baby food at school when we hungered for steak... the bits of meat that you did let slip through were pre-chewed and tasteless. We've been dominated by sadists, or ignored by the apathetic. The few that had something to teach found us willing pupils, but those few are like drops of water in the desert.
This is our world now... the world of the electron and the switch, the beauty of the baud. We make use of a service already existing without paying for what could be dirt-cheap if it wasn't run by profiteering gluttons, and you call us criminals.
We explore... and you call us criminals.
We seek after knowledge... and you call us criminals.
We exist without skin color, without nationality, without
religious bias... and you call us criminals.
You build atomic bombs, you wage wars, you murder, cheat, and lie to us and try to make us believe it's for our own good, yet we're the criminals.
Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for.
I am a hacker, and this is my manifesto. You may stop this individual, but you can't stop us all... after all, we're all alike.
+++The Mentor+++
This has to be one of my favorite pieces of artful commenting. It was pertinent 15 years ago and is still pertinent today.
they DO fear us, and that is how a government should be, they should be sitting in congress with a pool of sweat around them....Because a government that fears its people is how it is supposed to be, NOT the other way around.
Now if you'll excuse me folks, there is a MASSIVE storm coming through and i need to go feed some animals
Down with Google!
Up with Bing!
That's just a ripple compared to their devious plans...
First they made that fading shit on the top, now they remove porn, and their next move might be to track every search query from every person...
Well, that's more publicity for Little White Butterflies.
How dumb can people be.I lose faith in humanity just a little more every time I visit this site.
Hey, Google can make mistakes, and don't take the deleting of ONE site as a policy by Google. I can still put Lolicon into the Google Search box and come up with NUMEROUS sites like Notfourchan, Lolichan, etc.
lolichan is blocked by the swedish government :(
Google should just offer a safe version for the easily offended and make it and easy to see button vs trying to make a one size fits all poorly search.
I suggest the naming the option kinder gardener or castrated web search.
why the hell dont they hold votes for this kind of shit?
This is the guy who caused this whole mess, he's the one who sent the complaints to Google and their advertisers:
http://l7world.com/2010/04/google-sponsors-child-pornography.html
"the point of the article is not that lolicon should be banned or that anyone who reads it should be put in jail. The point (which I stated in the beginning) is the hypocrisy in allowing sites with material that clearly violates Google’s TOS (or worse) simply because they’re profitable. I could have written the same article about Google partnering with websites like Gawker.com & PerezHilton.com, which have adult pornographic material, but that has already been pointed out by many already to no avail. But I bet I got their attention now."
He's either a master troll or a fucking retard
well fuck them all that made that request
It just proves that Google are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites. They claim they're fighting to remove censorship from the internet (China), yet they do the exact thing they're claiming to fight against.
I'd also like to mention though that they even removed such things as Dance in the Vampire Bund, which shows mild nudity. Yet the discovery channel and such can show full nudity several times? So they are starting on the path of saying that "drawn" porn and nudity is worse then real porn and nudity.
The real sad thing, the thing to be angry about is how compliant Google has been with any petty authority from China to the FedPigs in AmeriKKKa. They could end so much trouble on all sides by going:
"We are NOT going to censor searches. Our site is pure free information. However, stating the obvious, that works both ways. If you 'Authorities' want to look for stuff you don't like, like an illegal website, you are free to use our search engine to look for it. Do you know how to trace a 'domain registry'? We, or many professionals we can refer, can help you there. Also, don't you already put up "Trap" sites or "Misinformation" sites? Censor the results of a search, mess with that success."
Google had by far the $ and power to almost openly spit in the faces of the Pigs and get away with it. Certainly to politely deny any unreasonable 'help'. That's what I find wrong with it.
No more "Google it", Now is "Yahoo it!"
Well guys(and gals), I believe its time to transition from Google. They don't care about your loli. They don't care about your freedom of expression, expression, anime,hentai,comics,entertainment,or video games. They DON"T care about YOU! They are ONLY in it for themselves.
Time to stop Googling and let's look for alternatives. Join the discussion we are having in the Sankaku Forums.
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/forums/topic.php?id=7425
So can we post names? So far I've only seen Little White Butterflies get pulled down, but that seems pretty obvious. Mangafox I hear as well. Any other groups?
I am fucking sick of this banning lark, first loli is banned from the UK then Google bann it NOW they're trying to bann neko mimi, It's fucking ridiculous, I'm fucking pissed off!Seriously at this rate Otaku are going to take up arms and start killing the fuckers who keep banning our shit. how bout they bann eastenders or GTA or reality TV, Fucking bullshit! >:[
Google haet loli
Alternatives to Google, Yahoo, and MSN:
http://www.ask.com/
http://www.aol.com/
http://www.viewzi.com/
Link to discussion:
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/forums/topic.php?id=7425
Do you really think any of these will behave any differently?
surprise surprise
help need more loli site pls e mail me at anime_0209@yahoo.com.ph
Go away, FBI. We don't want your candy.
GOOGLE, YURUSAN!!
http://komidol.wordpress.com/2010/04/20/the-campaign-against-the-ban-of-lolicon-art-2-little-white-butterflies-incident/
Mwahahaha finally. Less avenues you sick fucks can turn to for your pathetic hobby. Look on the bright side, some of you might actually get a real-life relationship with real women.
Excuse me assjack, but please allow me to say that me having a so called pathetic hobby and no life sure must feel at least ten times better than leading your life where you criticize other people's hobbies. Did you use google to find this page? if you search google for "angry horde of loli-fans" it will will answer you with "please look out your window". Ah and before i forget it... Fuck you :3
Loli forever! Thank you very much!
I only criticize hobbies if it needs to be criticized, you kiddie diddler. And ten times better? Sure, say that when you're 40 and still cooped up in your darkened room fapping to kiddie porn and anime girls.
Then why in the HELL are you on an anime website?
Just askin'!
It's amazing how upset people get over something that is of little concern.
There are ways to combat this kind of censorship. Google cannot possibly look through all of the sites on its index, it's physically impossible. If a site gets removed from its index, you can immediately post an alternative site in its place which forwards users automatically to the old site.
In a way it reminds me of youtube. Youtube has tons of copyrighted stuff on its site. Particularly music. When they take a song down three more people post it. Lay siege to google.
Ever since they started to banned "everything" crimes have been on the rise, kippnaping on children have been appearing on the news more often, shit "everything that PEOPLE making banned because it feels like they are doing the right thing?!" most likely it will blast straight into their faces by now and blame it on "something else". for making that move they might have open some part of pandora's box.
ok... if an artist is drawing a girl with an underage appearance in a sexual fashion... it's not like looking at an underage girl posed in a sexual fashion? I don't see the logic.
Wow... seriously? I personally am a lolicon, but anyone who's saying lolicons are pedophiles is just a stupid motherfucking ignoramus. Sure, we like drawn representations of girls with underdeveloped bodies. Does that mean we want to go out and rape children? For the near unanimous majority, absolutely not. True pedophiles are criminals who should rot not only in jail, but also in Hell. Honestly, real children NEVER look as visually pleasing as anime lolis. Seriously, one of the IDOLS of lolicons is Toradora!'s Aisaka Taiga. She's cute, loli, and 17 (which is actually the age of sexual consent in some places)... but she's also idealized. No real person could possibly be like that.
On a side note, anyone who's here just to bash on otaku and especially lolicons, what the fuck are you even doing on SanCom? Seriously, if you don't like this stuff, why are you being a trolling asshole and visiting a website that FREQUENTLY, even INVARIABLY has content you find objectionable. Again, I just want to say you guys (or girls) are stupid motherfucking ignoramuses.
[The site itself has now been removed from the indexes of all Google servers, raising additional concerns over the global censorship of results based on US law alone]
wow, so we're all controlled by US law
There is a good chance that Google never actually looked at the site and simply made their decision based on the number or frequency of anonymous reports. I'd suggest seeing if it is possible to ban a completely harmless website with the same offense before bringing in the baseless conjecture. Incompetence seems far more likely than the beginnings of a global campaign to force other countries into practicing new US censorship practices. Besides, as a private enterprise, Google is allowed to remove any site they want from their listings at any time. If they decide they don't want to help you find drawings of little naked kids on the internet then they won't. Not that I would support that decision or anything. I'm just saying there is no legal issue stopping them at this point, only the general fear of censorship that would scare off customers and create unnecessary controversies.
whats with that fagot saying NORTH americans? south america doesn't count u fagot.
any one know the site in question? link me^^ im a lolicon XDDDDDD
we all have perversions i just admit it.
oi! i want a link to the site! or any loli site!
we all have perversions i just admit it.
I dont care about loli stuff u can ban them all you want. The thing is because of this matter most mature manga had been removed from mangafox even though they dont have anything to do with loli! Now where is my bloody scenes manga dammit!
I wonder if this is bad news for Pixiv?
I find it completely ironic that they pulled out of China in the first place because they were defending some Chinese right activist's email accounts (then got hacked for it), and now they're the ones censoring.
So I guess the channel here is next on their hit list...some of the loli stuff you clowns post look like possible CP even to me.
WOOT! Never knew this site existed. Thanks for making it news to those of us unaware of its existence. Added to bookmarks :) Bring on the rape, gangrape, sexslaves! :D
I took a look at the website. It's mostly guro and crap. I admit i don't mind loli, but that site disgusts me. I don't like guro loli stuff. It's unpleasant. SO no big loss.
Goodby mangahut. Oh well, not a big deal. lol. I don't see why people like loli stuff. Just doesnt do it for me. whatever
That reminds me... The site I was reading Kodomo no Jikan took down their scanlations of it. Talk about sad.
People sure are quick to rage at google because they can't get their pron of 4 year olds by searching google. I'd tell them to just bookmark the page, but they're probably to stupid to...
It's googles right to decide what is and is not in it's directory, as it owns the company.
Sure it's their company, but people are complaining about their hypocrisy. They supposedly give you FREE information and oppose countries because of censorship, now they pull out this shit? Would you trust a person who told you one thing and did another?
google did the right thing.
now every ero loli site is safe from teh feminist.
good job google!
fuck google, we can get everything in internet. besides, it would be better to hide loli site from everyone.
Irony: Google prides itself on not giving into government-based bans worldwide. LOL! Little White Butterflies got shafted by an over-reaching, B.S. American law. *facepalm x9000 for my country*
Y'know, everyone's quick to ban lolicon material but loli/shota been around ever since probably before the Renaissance. The only exception I see is that it wasn't overtly sexual. Still, there were nude children and I don't see it getting banned anytime soon or ever.
Still, I believe if you ban loli your essentially squashing part someone's Freedom of Expression.
Yay google for saying fuk china, boo google for getting rid of Loli. Good thing I never use google anyway. Fuck google. Yahoo! FTW!
Oh google, you've really stepped into it now.
This ISN'T China!!
reported the site to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children as is its obligation under US law.
I mean, report a site hosting loli doujin to a center for missing children?
My brain melt'd.
No, dear Anon.... their brains melt'd. Otherwise those dumbfucks would've been able to distinguish between completely fictional drawn children, and honest-to-God actual missing children (who deserve more help than they're getting).
Well time to use yahoo then
And so it begins. This needs to get nipped in the bud before it spreads even further.
As if it really matters. The site itself is still there, it'll just be harder to find for those who are relatively new to the scene.
I agree nonetheless, the fact that they oppose and ban lolicon sites and have their owners criminally prosecuted, yet condone murder, rape and anything else as long as it involved fully-developed, mature women is hypocritical at best. And it's even worse that they use a very vague definition to judge their decision on.
And Google censoring the Internet is nothing new. I'm pretty sure this isn't the only case of Google censoring certain sites and I'm also sure not all contain loli material or even real kiddie porn.
Remember, wherever there are humans with 'high' morals behind a corporation or in close connection with it (by either working for it or affiliated with it), stuff like this will never go away. People are supposed to know the law, but very rarely do any of them truly understand it -- if they know it at all.
Goddamn Femnazi's
Ruining the interwebs yet again
As the site is refusing to post my comment I will rehash it here. I am a self employed website rater, employed by a company that directly works with google. And here is what their guidelines say on reporting a child pornography site.
"An image is child pornography if it is a visual depiction of someone who appears to be a minor (i.e., under 18 years old) engaged in sexually explicit conduct (e.g., vaginal or anal intercourse, oral sex, bestiality or masturbation as well as lascivious depictions of the genitals), or sadistic or masochistic abuse. The image of sexually explicit conduct can involve a real child; a computer-generated, morphed, composite or otherwise altered image that appears to be a child (think of images that have been altered using “Photoshop”); or an adult who appears to be a child; and the image can be nonphotographic -- e.g., drawings, cartoons, anime, paintings or sculptures – so long as the subject is engaging in sexually explicit conduct and which is obscene. If it is indistinguishable from child pornography, it is child pornography."
*indistinguishable* key word, let me ask you a question. Do you live in fantasy land? loli doesn't not resemble real children in any shape or form, let me explain this to you since you're clueless regarding laws. indistinguishable is a key word because IF it is indistinguishable from REAL child pornography it IS child pornography, Why? because it's most likely traced/redrawn real child pornography into anime, cartoon or painting form which is why they mention the keyword indistinguishable so there isn't a loophole regarding REAL child pornography redrawn so it's legal; but let me ask EXACTLY what fucking world do you live in where drawn lolis look like REAL fucking children? POINT ME in the direction where real children look like drawn loli you see.
Very realistic stuff which is traced real children is ILLEGAL because it's a trace of *REAL* CP, but 99.999% of it isn't nor is anything on that website they censored; just in case your defy REALISTIC as in you hold up the REAL picture of CP next to the drawing and it looks exactly the same because it's a trace of CP.
Google's guidelines are not laws.
Didn't say they are I thought people might find it useful to see what google actually bases their bans on. Guess not.
They can't :P Why do you think they're not into it themselves yet?
If these are the guidelines, how can sites like Pixiv remain indexed by Google? It can't be the case that no rater has ever come across them.
They can't read moon runes? :D
The sites/images that we rate are random, we can only rate the 1 page that we land on not the whole site. so there is actually a low chance that we will find a image that breaks the guidelines on a massive site. But as the site is not dedicated to it I find it likely that the offending image will just be removed (if google even bothers to follow it up as it probaly would be quite a bit of work).
I have never been on the site you mentioned so I dont know if its all lolicon, but if a rater came across a offending image and reported it, and the investigation turns out that the site is 90% full of offending images then I guess it will be removed.
Also want to add that alot of you are saying that its not illegal in America, well its illegal in quite a few countries and google isnt just aimed at america. It would be easier to please everyone and stand by country laws just to ban those websites.
Look at the Garibaldo post
People shouldn't find sexual interest in children.
I was 9, and my first girlfriend was 11. Did that make her a pedophile? No.
So, shut your pie hole, Anon 21:31.
People shouldn't murder
people shouldn't go to war
people shouldn't rape
people shouldn't rob
people shouldn't do drugs
guess what? they're all in movies and media everywhere. Why are non-existant lolis targeted? because everyone is afraid of the REAL people who do crime, they would rather ban loli than tell big bubba "please don't butt rape/kill me" or "please don't do drugs"
The feminists are practically COWARDS!!! nothing but COWARDS! The pussies that they were born with.
You mean ADULTS shouldn't have a sexual interest in children; they're people too. When will this bullshit of disregarding a children's feelings just because they're kids stop?
Children can get sexually aroused too you know, but maybe you forgot how it was to be a child.
Lines aren't children, and don't have ages, shit for brains.
"People shouldn't find sexual interest in children."
When I was 13 I fell in love with a 14 year old girl in my class. I got aroused when I thought of her.
children are people too, thus
I've had sexual interest in children. And you must have, too. Freud was right.
To add on to that, ever since I was like 4-5 I had an interest in girls, and it was the only thing that got me motivated about going to school. So yea, I guess children aren't "people" until they're 18 according to how he makes it seem.
Then why do your otakus celebrate anime girl birthdays then, moron?
Little White Butterflies D:
It's LBW's site that got cut off?
LOL
I typed in the full address for LWB's homepage and it din appear. Fucking useless search engine XD
Yeah.
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/6550/lwbsearchgoogle.png
Give me a fucking break, this isn't Google censoring your dumb asses, it's Google saying fuck it and taking the easy way out.
Get a grip you idiots.
If I was Google I would have done the same thing. Your loli site isn't worth the negative publicity and the ad dollars. They made a cash based decision and that's all it was.
It's still gonna be seen as caving in to the moralfaggotry by most of the people here, Sukunai.
Why didn't you explicitly post a link to the site removed from Google's index?
Just now google delete ~100000 people from fans
My Site!...
Is Google the 1st step to Skynet from the Terminator movies?
When I read the post's title my first thought was that it's about sankaku :)
That's what I thought as well...
This is completely stupid. I should complain to google that youtube has loli videos (which they do) to see if they would remove youtube from their search results or if they would show a double standard for sites that they own (I'm guessing they would do the latter).
Why are you hesitating? Do it. <.<'
On another note, time to start looking for a different search engine/webmail.
That is a good Idea, going after the EFF affiliate would be much more effective though.
Someone should bring this up on B and make a massive report of CP on youtube. I really want to see youtube getting the same thing with little white butterfly. That would be fun!
"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
THEN THEY CAME for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.
THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."
Where does "I came" part fit in?
Lolicon got criminalized in the UK for anyone who doesn't know.
Fuckin' shit pisses me off.
Naked picture of a 17 year old 2D girl = child porn ... Gimme a fuckin' break. ¬_¬
Google's double standards, just like any organizations, so long as it serves their agendas they observe it.
Also, the site was suggested to be removed by an EFF associated website, there are wolves among those we trust.
This is incorrect; the "EFF associated website" in question is ChillingEffects. AFAIK, they were not the ones that reported LWB; the reason they're even in the conversation is because LWB said not to look at their definition of CP, as it was out of date, but instead to look directly at USC 2256. Another blog saw that and misinterpreted it as saying that CE was the ones that reported LWB.
I have a feeling this was done by a moralfag, or a feminist....