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Top Mangaka Blast Loli Ban

beako-or-maybe-kooh-bent-over

An overpowering array of household name mangaka heads the list of those announcing their opposition to the efforts to ban raunchy manga as “2D child pornography” in Tokyo and, by extension, all of Japan.

Elder mangaka Tetsuya Chiba (Ashita no Joe) decries the law as threatening the very cultural complex which has become so vibrant in Japan:

“When new culture and expression comes about many types of flowers bloom. Pretty blooms like violets and sakura, but also more odious jungle blooms like Rafflesia.

However, these are all interconnected – merely saying ‘this one is dirty’ and cutting it down will only destroy the entire ecology.”

Go Nagai (Mazinger) puts it another way:

go-nagai

“I came into the world with Harenchi Gakuen. People struck out at it back then, but if there’s a ban this would be impossible to put out now.

If you say something stinks and then try to put a lid on it by censoring it all you do is increase the number of warped people out there.”

More details on the law and its proponents in the previous article on the subject.

Dozens of top industry figures, including many boasting government awards and iconic cultural impact, have put their names to the list opposing any restrictions; a sampling:

anti-loli-ban-list

Fujiko Fujio A (Ninja Hattori-kun)

Takao Saitō (Golgo 13)

Gosho Aoyama (Case Closed)

Rumiko Takahashi (Ranma ½)

Mitsuru Adachi (Touch)

Moto Hagio (They Were Eleven)

Machiko Satonaka (Constellation of the Hunter)

Ryōhei Saigan (Kamakura Monogatari)

Tooru Fujisawa (GTO)

Ken Akamatsu (Love Hina)

Kaworu Watashiya (Kodomo no Jikan)

Alongside these are a variety of figures ranging from obscure ero-mangaka to the Seikon no Qwaser production staff. All the major manga publishers have also put their names to the list.

In fact, the only figures conspicuously absent seem to Shonen Jump mangaka…

With many figures in the list being household names, those who were expecting a long list of ero-mangaka and eroge companies have been taken aback.

Of course, what remains to be seen is the reaction of the senile geriatrics and moralist busybodies supporting this measure when they vote on its fate on the 19th.

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216 Comments

  • Of course they are against it. Even “household mangaka” will make an income from or will at least want to have the option of drawing lolicon, since it does sell well. I would protest a cut of one of my income sources, too.
    I do not think that this debate is about morals, really.

    Always keep in mind the economic interests. It’s the strongest force in the world of today.

    • Do they?
      First of all, the legal age for sex is 13, so a lot of what constitutes as child abuse in other countries does not apply.

      And second, we do not know how many children are abused, we can only know the number of pressed charges. Is it easy, is it encouraged or discouraged to press charges in Japan? How openly can you speak about rape?

  • Regarding the post above about Tipper Gore: wrong. She did not at any time propose a “ban” on any music. In response to the public displays of viciously anti-social imagery and lyrics in rap–not heavy metal–she lobbied for printed lyrics to be made available to parents, “plain wrapper” covers for CDs with explicit nudity and violence, and the ratings system.

    All these things came to pass in one form or another, and the industry–despite its bawlings and wailings to the contrary–survived.

    While there is good cause for people to stand up for community standards–as Tipper Gore did–what is going on in Iowa and what is proposed in Japan (a blanket outlawing of images and/or imprisonment for possession of drawings) is preposterous. They’re as different as day and night.

  • How much loli-hentai do you suppose they read in the Boy Scouts? Or the Vatican? They DO have one book in common, though! Anyone wanna propose making possession of THAT book illegal?

  • Well, I’m totally against the ban, but somehow makes me think about this boom in ero-anime.

    We’ve been seing things animated for TV that you would only seen in softcore porn, showing less and less plot and more and more ero to attract viewers.

    People have been pushing the bar for a bit, and now the backlash came with this ban proposal.

    I dunno but if I want ero I’d rather see a hentai than a late-slot anime right? Let those for shows with mature story-telling.

    • I have been reading this kind of topics and i thinks that the only way we have to fix their brains is to appeal to count for insulting us by calling us rapists and staff. They wont care for words but if we strike their money they may just get it.
      No point in speaking with fanatics.

  • Поддерживаю борьбу против запрета на аниме и лоликона.
    По мне так это какой то дебилизм считать 2д девочек за реальных детей.
    Если они боятся что это влечёт к реальным то крупно ошибаются. Я до сих пор не слышал чтобы в Японии кого то громко изнасиловали , педафилия.
    По мне просто политикам нечего делать в мирном времени для Японии и вот крутят херню чтобы было чем заняться и подзаработать возможно.

  • Idreamofpocky says:

    I’ve got to say… Even though I wasn’t alive at the time, I ‘remember’ in the eighties Al Gore’s wife, Tipper Gore I think was her name got on a moral crusade to ban heavy metal music. As with lolicon, it was of course a largely christian based movement with an extreme right moralist base. Their entire argument was the old “think of the children” tactic which is still often employed to great effect today.

    Bands like cannibal corpse were sited for their extremely graphic violent content; and I’m sure we all know just how depraved some hentai can be. Either way, the fact it’s essentially impossible to ban any form of artistic expression. A loli-ban would basically be like a cyber version of the war on drugs; paramount to thought crime. It’s completely absurd in the free world, including Japan.

    In that case, famous musicians including John Denver gathered to speak about the importance of freedoms of speech. When I read this article I got the feeling that it’s the same story in Japan. There is a cultural phenomenon there that not everybody likes, so a select few people are trying to just make it go away; you know, for the children. I really hope that creative freedom and artistic integrity win the day once again.

    “Of all the tyrannies of humankind, the worst is that which persecutes the mind.” ~ John Dryden

    • A free world?

      A free world is for you mainly a world where you can watch and read pornography with idealized, sexualized children?
      You are a free consumer?

      What the heck. If it’s a free world, I’m sure in Japan no one feels the need and pressure to get educated, to get money and you, as a part of a free world, are free to do whatever you please and have all the responsibility for your life in your hands. You aren’t talked bullshit to through advertising and politicians speech in a free world, no clouding and brainwashing in a free world.
      Sorry pal, but I think you should think about what constitutes freedom…

  • Jesus. I just read the twitter feed of two mangaka I know in Japan and they both said they were not going to bother to sign the petition because “it has nothing to do with them” (one does pet comics for women and the other does sports comics). They also commented “they won’t apply the law anyway.”
    Yes, there are people that naive in the world. Japanese people tend to be very politically unsophisticated anyway, but I was shocked. I’m not sure what to say to them that won’t get them all upset. Maybe “If it doesn’t matter, why not sign?”

    • No it’s not. A real pedophile will never be satisfied with out getting in to the real thing.
      Loli manga are nothing but cute entertainment. There has never been establish any relationship. Actually almost none of the people who raped children in Japanese prisons was a loli manga fanatic. They are more in to the real thing.
      This is nothing more than crazy fanatic scare talk by insane thought-police with people that want to pass there own agendas behind it.

    • Shueisha is brutally repressive to their artists. If they say STFU, the artists had better listen. Even the big names have to feel a little fear. Remember, it wasn’t that long ago Shueisha would automatically fire anyone who did any work for another company. The first guy to break that rule was Tatsuya Egawa, who had enough arrogance to dare them to fire him while his comic Tokyo Daigaku Monogatari was the #1 bestseller for Shueisha. He blatantly went to his old publisher, Kodansha, and started running a series there, simultaneously. They let him get away with it and the wall was broken, but only for the elite of the elite. I know others have now done it, but only a few.
      So, all that said, if the Shonen Jump editorial department decided that their artists were going to STFU on this issue, they would. And it seems like they did.

  • I think it’s a fair guess that by the terms of the proposed bill, about 30% of all manga would be affected. That’s a huge hit for the manga publishers, who are already financially strapped. Manga publishing accounts for about 40% of all publishing in Japan. All the major manga publishers are located in Tokyo. Very large amounts of money and tax income to the state are involved in what is, in the end, just political grandstanding.
    My guess is that a back-door deal will be cut involving huge bribes (as is usual in Japanese politics) from the publishers to the appropriate officials, and this will all go away. However, a more precisely targeted ban on the graphic loli sex comics could still come out of it as a “compromise.”
    As for Watashiya, of course she’s going to defend herself, but let’s face it, if it was one of the Comic LO artists instead…now THAT would be funny.

  • Go Nagai is the second most respected manga artist to Osamu Tezuka. Those who had a chance to read his interview in the Middle East will find how more down to earth, very wise, and downright correct is this guy who lay the foundation for hentai manga and violent guro. I’m glad he opposes this and what he said is quite correct – censorship will only make things worse and drive more people to get around it, even through force if necessary. Nothing beats good education and discipline, something the Japanese have done so well over the years, and why loli content goes through without a hitch.

  • There’s a lot of bad, nasty, repulsive, evil stuff out there that I don’t want to see, and that is clearly detrimental to society.

    BUT, there’s no person or group I would trust to decide what is “good” and what is “bad” for me and my fellow citizens to read/see/hear.

    So, I’m philosophically stuck with having the bad as well as the good.

    3-D land is different, because you’ve got actual people involved, who can and are being hurt to produce the “bad” stuff.

    I have no problem with _minors_ being restricted from the stuff listed in the ban (though I think the wording is too vague).

    The question is, “will the ban on this stuff for minors be used as a thin entering wedge to get it banned for everyone?”

    Based on the frothings from EN, I believe the answer is to that is, “yes”.

  • it doesn’t make a difference if they ban lolis anyways, cause the mangaka, they’d do the next closest best thing, and not have blunt loli fanservice, but have roundabout loli goodness without fanservice, then most likely submit to the internet some relatively good blatant loli fanservice, under an anonymous account…

  • being an lover of love hina, and a solid ken akamatsu fanatic, (he got me started on rom-com worship from what I was doing before it, shonen stagnation), I’ll vote whatever he votes~

    there are a lot of loli’s in ken akamatsu’s manga, ai love you had little sister moe loli, love hina had smily-faced koala su loli, shinobu mihara close friend loli, sarah mcdougal foreigner-loli, little sister moe loli from naru’s little sister, nyamu exotic loli… Mahou sensei negima has evangeline vampire evil loli, along with an array of middle schooler goodness, doll goodness… stating the whole list of loli goodness within MSN feels like talking for a hundred years… about something wonderful…

    so whatever Ken decides, I’ll back him, (since I already downloaded everything of his to this day).

  • “In fact, the only figures conspicuously absent seem to Shonen Jump mangaka…”

    Considering that they ran To Love Ru until it’s end this past august, I find it unusual there would be no representation from that end.

  • Kinny Riddle says:

    With the likes of heavyweight mangakas like Takahashi Rumiko, Adachi Mitsuru, Gosho Aoyama and Akamatsu Ken signing their names on the list, they’ve pretty much told stuck-up know-it-all moralists like Equality Now to go fuck themselves.

    Bravo at that.

    (LOL at Yoshino Hiroyuki of the “infamous” Seikon no Qwaser on the list as well. )

  • Apart from the clear problem of censorship against drawings, which is the most retarded and annoying form of censorship, this could also become a very big problem for the manga industry.

  • Not just with their awesome works, these people also get my full respect for standing up against these bans. Seeing Fujisawa there (whom iirc only do hawt stuffs involving highschool girls) put me in awe even more.

    If only Fujio F. Fujiko’s still alive, he’d also be apart of this. I mean he’s the first mangaka who presented me nakky loli in a bathtub in almost every volumes of Doraemon..

  • You know, im ashamed of you people and im only ashamed, because you downvote people who say what they think, even if they ARE for that loli ban.
    Your dissapointing me people.
    Its not like you could DO anything against that Ban.
    The Voting System HERE is a MESS.

    • Post rating, serious business.
      You’d rather have a flood of one word replies of “gtfo” “die” “agreed” “+1” “wtf” “no u”? If you happen to get -1.0 everybody is going to expand your comment and read it anyways.

  • of all the people on the list made me laugh that put down

    Kaworu Watashiya as one of the people since kodomo no jikan is super lolicon manga of course he doesn’t agree xD

    They should put loli doujin artists that sell well also on the list maybe that will impress people and believe loli banning is bad!

    (I don’t support banning of loli :O )

  • I will say Japanese fans needed their gaijin counterparts really fast. If this so-called law passes…

    I remember the Library Wars anime…perhaps we need a Hentai Defense Force if this feminist-fundie axis isn’t stopped.

  • If this law were to make it through, Tokyo can kiss its entire manga and anime industry good-bye. And it will only get worse from there.

    Why should every mangaka write about grown up women with breasts the size of beach balls? I doubt many people can truly connect with those characters as much as they could with lesser developed characters, both age and physique-wise.

    That there are loli mangakas on that list is far from surprising, but at least they dare venture out in the open and speak out. Their livelihood is being threatened at the hands of some rather unscrupulous organizations like UNICEF and various radical feminist groups. Do they want to force these people into unemployment?

    Now, if all those basement-dwelling otakus were to stand up and follow their idols, they’d have a REAL shitstorm on their hands.

    Censorship or bans on fictional material is NEVER an answer to anything. Japan needs to stop being so sensitive to international pressure and give the rest of the world a big ‘up yours’ and tell them to do something about their OWN problems for a change.

    • Japanese government is hypocrite, they listen to what the UNICEF says about this whole (non-existing) threat to RL kids by unreal anime lolicons, still pays no attention to REAL issues such as their disgusting habit of eating whale meat… how many petitions to stop whale fishing from organizations like PETA and Green Peace could be already piled up on their desks??.

      • Politicians are only worried about one thing: keeping their asses in those luxurious satin chairs for as long as possible while doing as little as possible.

        However, to achieve that, they need to rally support from the people they are supposed to represent and unfortunately, over half of all the voters are as dumb as can be, mostly due to the media playing on people’s gut feelings and scaring the living daylights out of them by emphasizing the most extreme cases. As a result, the need to protect children has made the average human braindead and unable to reason with.

        • Hey, it’s governments run on; fear tactics. It’s just how well a government can hide it. It goes back to the question for a leader if it is better to be feared or loved. Unfortunately history has shown that the most efficient results come from the former.

      • And then you’ll get feminists screaming bloody murder over women being sexualized (something they’re already doing right now).

        Thing is, they’ll stop at nothing at depriving men of their sexual pleasures and to get women dominating over men (and I don’t mean that in the sexual kind).

  • They SHOULD BE CONCERNED.

    After all, this ludicrous would-be-law will greatly affect one of their main sources of livelihood..

    Hopefully, more and more renowned Manga authors would step up and let themselves be heard..

  • I wonder when these idiots are going to get the FACT that pedosexuality is a normal sexuality, and that if you don’t want them to be having sex with REAL children, you are going to have to damned well give them some OTHER means of sating their perfectly NORMAL sexual impulses.

    • You sir are an idiot. Just because we don’t want loli manga to be banned doesn’t mean we want to fuck children. And no it’s not an alternative. I don’t watch lolis in anime because i have a secret desire for real children, i only watch them because it’s fun.
      Yes it’s normal to find attractive a 16-15 even a 14 year old because biologically she’s a woman no matter what the law says biology thinks differently but wanting to fuck an 8 or 9 year old is not normal even with biology. It just means you are a sick bastard.
      Stop trying to say that we like anime lolis because we are sexually frustrated about real children. We are not. Real children are just annoying little brats and i have no interest in watching child porn or anything like that.
      THEY ARE DIFFERENT THINGS.

    • By definition, ‘pedosexuality’ is not ‘normal’. But neither is homosexuality. That does not mean that both orientations do not deserve respect as long as they remain within the law with regards to real minors.

      Any law banning fictional minors however is straight-up retarded. Loli-lovers have every right to be able to enjoy h-manga and such.

  • Those people created some of my favorite manga.

    Sure, it’s funny (and not surprising) to see the creator of Kodomo no Jikan on that list. But still, screw this ridiculous assault on free expression.

    I am behind them and opposed to the ban 100%.

    Agnes Chan can suck it.

  • Being a fan Of Go Nagai I do see where the man’s getting at.

    When he came out with Harenchi Gakuen lot of people were digusted by what he did because he broke a lot of taboo’s somewhat similar to the loli ban right

    Now look at what he’s come with stuff like Cutie Honey, Mazinger, Kekko Kamen, and various other mangas.

    Reason why most would oppose this ban whether their taste be lolicon or not it would soon stretch out to other things anyway so glad the influential types are takin a stand.

  • “When new culture and expression comes about many types of flowers bloom. Pretty blooms like violets and sakura, but also more odious jungle blooms like Rafflesia.

    However, these are all interconnected – merely saying ‘this one is dirty’ and cutting it down will only destroy the entire ecology.”

    Wow, pretty impressive analogy, I like the way this guy thinks.

  • If this ban goes into effect, I don’t think the drawing and distribution of erotic works featuring young-looking girls will be impeded to any great extent. It will simply become more underground, which the Internet easily facilitates nowadays.

    This is interesting to me. I’ve always found the Japanese, due to their highly homogeneous culture and pervasive social controls therein, to be the most law-abiding people on Earth. Usually, when new rules are instituted, by schools, families, workplaces, or government, they adhere to them rigidly.

    Yet, when it comes to matters of sexual desire and sexuality, Japanese authority always utterly fails at repressing whatever is targeted for elimination. The producers and consumers inevitably find a way around it. This might have something to do with the fact that no one in Japan is consistently getting laid anymore.

    Plummeting marriage rates, lonely men, desperate women, a decline in births and consequently, in population: People need an outlet. I don’t believe the current ero market in Japan would be what it is today if the Japanese were busy making babies and enjoying healthy amounts of H.

    • You give too much credit to the amount of people dedicating their lives to 2D ero. Even in Japan, otaku are probably not a significant percentage of the total population to place them as the main factor in the declining birth rates.

      Also, declining birthrates seem to be showing up in many other developed countries around the world. When taking this into account, Japan just turns out to be the spearhead of a global trend.

  • *ALERT* – Ken Akamatsu (Love Hina)

    *ALERT* – Kaworu Watashiya (Kodomo no Jikan)

    *Laughter to commence – NOW hahahahahahhahaha

    Of course these two dont want the Loli ban – they made their livings off of Loli LUving =P

  • The real test would have been to actually try to ban sexually explicit loli. The way this ban was worded, all sexually provocative depictions of characters who appear to be minors, not just children, was banned. Describing it as a ban on 2D child pornography was just an attempt to cloud people’s reason.

    • That wouldn’t work since the characters are not real people so have no age except what the artist gives them. A good example from a curently running show “Ladies Vs. Butlers” is that one character looks like she is a kid and is 19.

  • RUMIKO! That’s my babe. A world where no one could accidentally tear off Lum-chan’s top, or grab Ran-chan’s boob for comedic purposes…isn’t a world I would want to live in. Rumiko taught me more about being ok and comfortable with my body as a girl more than anything or anyone, growing up back when. I owe her a lot.

  • Kind of expected Ken Akamatsu and Kaworu Watashiya, but the others were a great surprise! More power against the ban.

    Also, “If you say something stinks and then try to put a lid on it by censoring it all you do is increase the number of warped people out there.” is one of the points people have been trying to say since the start online, great to see it hit the press.

  • Long ago, in America, there was an industry-wide ban on certain kinds of comics. This was the Comics Code. By cutting out the “unsavory” comics and promoting only the least-offensive, the entire industry eventually lost much of its cultural relevance, dooming American comics to stagnation and, eventually, obscurity.

    Eventually, a more vibrant and daring format emerged in the West, imported from a country whose comics were a dominant cultural medium for almost a century.

    That is why manga regularly outperforms American comics. A ban on “unsavory manga” would only help the manga industry’s competition.

  • censorship of any creative work should be rightfully opposed. it’s good to see that mangaka are aware that their creative freedom is being threatened and actually do something about it. *claps *claps

  • “When new culture and expression comes about many types of flowers bloom. Pretty blooms like violets and sakura, but also more odious jungle blooms like Rafflesia.

    However, these are all interconnected – merely saying ‘this one is dirty’ and cutting it down will only destroy the entire ecology.”

    Enviromentalists approved.

    • We as mere regular people (or gaijin for Japanese) can’t de much asides try to be heard, but mangakas are UP TO HERE with this bullshit and this was the last straw.

      Fucking fight is ON.

      It’s good to know they’re finally banding together to start going against this retarded laws.

      • I agree as well.

        Trying to censor children would literally be trying to censor literary freedom. It would be like reading Harry Potter when he’s out of school. Who would read a story about a middle aged man, working to make a living?

        Same thing with manga. Manga is like having a fantasy world where anything is possible, to create a completely different world from pictures and words. Besides, it is in the younger years we had so much ambitions and dreams, manga is like a doorway to re-live those days. Trying to censor part of the past is completely ridiculous. They need to think about other people who actually have no ill-intent whilst reading a book where a loli is a character.

        Besides, with the internet on our hands, this entire idea is meaningless. With the resources and technology of today, this is just a silly plot by crackpots who have some fake “justice” they think they should uphold. Instead of trying to stop some cartoons, why don’t they do something about the perpetrators instead?

        • About that middle-aged man story, have you never heard of the manga Salaryman Kintarou?

          But anyway, the loli-“ban” is overbroad in its scope and could be interpreted to include almost anything.

      • Bravo mangaka!

        For decades Japanese manga and anime developed and bloomed in pre-internet isolation with very little fuss. These foreign inspired moralists won’t be satisfied, whatever concessions they are given. Moralists always find something else to ban. Today it’s cartoons. Tomorrow it will be writing. In their intolerant minds, they always find more “loopholes”. So challenging them now is the only option, as I believe these mangaka are aware. I don’t know what I can do to help except spread the word, but I wish them all best, for the sake of our beloved anime and manga….

        freeXpression

    • I’m pretty sure a ban wouldn’t stop circulation of existing material anyway. It’d just stop legit companies from creating this kind of material later, which would encourage the sale of illegal merchandise which in my opinion is a bigger problem than what’s going on now.

      • that’s practically a given.
        we have so many historical examples what bad sideeffects bans have. yet people never learn.
        as long as they feel what they’re doing is ‘right’, they’re satisfied. even if there is no sane reason behind it. pure selfishness.

      • “which would encourage the sale of illegal merchandise which in my opinion is a bigger problem than what’s going on now.”

        Why would they sell something illegal?

        If you read the article, it says “in Tokyo” and more importantly, the ban is for minors trying to watch or buy raunchy loli shows.

        You could just get out of Tokyo to create, buy, watch those things.

        As for the fight against the ban, I support it and hope the otaku would support it also.

        • TehBoringOne says:

          I wholeheartedly support the motion against the loli ban as well. I can’t stand it and actually hate it, but I can recognize when a group as hypocritical as Equality Now pushes for an undermining of free expression, other civil liberties can be in a state of risk.

          Fuck the ban.

          Fuck Equality Now.

          Protect children by pursuing and punishing their predators effectively.

        • Its like, who ever conquers tokyo, conquers Japan eh?

          FUCK this ban. They should put more TIME AND MONEY on real victims. Everyone has the capability of thinking perverted things and should not be hindered by doing so, unless they apply it IRL.

        • I think the main problem would be, once the law passes in a major city like tokyo, it wouldn’t be difficult to have it passed all over Japan. With laws like this, once a precedent is set in a major province, the others tend to just fall in line.

          Also, I support the fight against the ban. People need to finally admit that lolis are not real, and real children do not need to be “protected”.

        • Anonymous says:


          even CNN poll that being rigged as to vote either Japanese should ban eroge or not … they even bot the choice of “yes” …

          guess what … the answer of “no” still win and they are forced to take down the poll …

          already become stupid and cheating … and in the end still losing … what a loser …

        • they just want to get rid of the industry because people would then have to buy other things.
          They just can’t cope with the most popular and advanced media and want to ban it so they won’t go out of business and people would then buy their things.

        • A resounding ‘FUCK YOU‘ to this ban, should it go through.

          Besides, isn’t Japan’s economy already in enough of a deep hole? Why undermine the efforts being done to minimize it by undercutting it, all to protect some innocent 2D people who never existed in the first place?

          >_<

        • Saying that Japan doesn’t have the resources to put into enforcing this ban is rather short sighted. If the average person in Japan embraces it, then so will the govt. and they will work to enforce it. All govt. is self serving. If enough of the people embraced hello kitty as the national symbol, you would see politicians wearing hello kitty lapel pins, and heckling those who don’t.

        • It is a bad move. It’s not like Japan has an unlimited amount of funds to put into what will assuredly be an expensive law to enforce and maintain. And then add on the fact that there’s no sound evidence that it will actually reduce child abuse.

          So now you either have to reduce social spending, or raise taxes to fund this law. It would be pure irony if they actually funneled money from effective services to fund this, and child abuse actually increases. Just goes to show how actually anti-child these politicians really are.

        • If this works out, we’ll be seeing alot more huge oppai charcters running around, which I thought at first, wasn’t too bad.

          But when I thought of seiyuus like Kugimiya Rie, who fit DFC/tsundere roles perfectly, I’m in complete rejection of that stupid ban again.

        • I’m with you MasterYuke, although Panik, (in regards to your two comments “13:05” and “13:28”) the logical conclusion to either argument is the same.

          Ex. 1:
          a = ban, b = bad

          a therefore b

          Ex. 2:
          a = ban, b = sale of illegal merchandise,
          c = bad

          a therefore b therefore c

          If both outcomes are bad, it’s logical to assume to you believe the ban is bad.

          I think that’s what M

        • I didn’t say whether or not the ban was good or bad, I was simply pointing out what would likely happen in the event the ban went through, making light of the fact that it’s probably a bad move for the politicians to make even if they want these items to be banned.