“Japan Has 3,600,000 Hikikomori”
- Categories: Japan, News
- Date: Feb 6, 2010 23:37 JST
- Tags: 2ch, Bizarre, Hikikomori, Internet, Otaku, Politics, Statistics
Japan’s Minister of Internal Affairs has announced that the government finds there to be a total of 3,600,000 hikikomori in the country, and stressed the need to tackle the supposed problem.
The precise methodology the ministry used to come to this figure, and what it defines a hikikomori as, are however not clear – it would be far from the first time a government has manufactured dubious statistics in order to support its desired legislation.
It should also be noted that nobody has yet presented evidence (except perhaps the mass media and politicians) that the population of “hikikomori” in Japan is any higher than in other countries – socially isolated people exist in large numbers in any society.
2ch seems a fitting place to draw comment from:
Japan’s finished.
There’s no way there are that many!
You guys are probably included in the figure.
Last time it was 1 million. Now it’s 3. It’ll exceed Japan’s population soon won’t it?
We could launch a coup d’etat with that many.
We’ll be in the majority, it’s only a matter of time.
One person in 40 is a hikikomori?
We can make our own country!
We never see hikikomori so we have no idea how many there are…
That’s more than Moldova.
How the hell did they count a bunch of shut-ins?
They must at least go to the convenience store. It’s unbelievable that there are so many “ultimate hikki” who never so much as set foot outside.
Shouldn’t we start a party? Japan Hikikomori Party.
Hikikomori, NEETs, dispatch workers, suicides… there are too many in this country, what the hell is wrong with Japan, is it crazy or something?
Parents are at fault. Why don’t they just throw them out?
In a few decades the Japanese will all be indoors and outside will be nothing but Chinese.
Force all those damn hiki into the army, that’ll sort them out.
That’s 2.77% of the population. It’s a lie.
On the other hand, it would be pretty amazing for 97% of the population to be active members of society.
If 2ch were closed their population would plummet…
3.6 million votes are sleeping.
It’s an estimate. A pro-hikikomori can’t be detected by such means. The government’s 3.6 million are just the amateurs.
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The hikikomori could start a party, and include enabling electronic voting over the internet in their program. Too bad that they'd fail because their base won't come out to vote...
Some NEET religion for reunion of hikimori powers
Needed!
There's still hope...
Nihon Hikkikomori Kyoukai
I am a Hikikomori.
so?
I have Work, Money, a arpatment,...
i have no friends, no outside activities,
i spend my free time with chattin, gaming, watchin animes, buying stuff...
but its okay.
Nimm es leicht!
The economy is a pyramid scheme. People don't want to a cog in a giant machine. They want to do things because they are passionate about them, not a daily grind towards a paycheck to paycheck lifestyle.
These guys produce valuable things for our society for free, even if they don't make money and spend it. The internet has started to help this movement of people sharing ideas and passion for no gain. They want more from life. They aren't lazy because they are jobless. A person's worth is not based on how much money they make or their social status.
I for one hope we can eventually see a society that is free of money. Where people do things because they want to, and not because they can make a quick buck.
Capitalism, at least in its current form has failed Japan. The flame is burning out, and as much as we try to forcefully fuel it, it is inevitable it will burn out.
Yah, capitalism failed. But the thing is that nobody has come with something better.
You're sort of on the right track but this is what our world should be in the future:
http://www.thevenusproject.com/
We need to discard the monetary system entirely in favor of a resource based economy. But sadly the powers that be have done an excellent job in conditioning nearly everyone into believing that a monetary system is the only way that humanity can survive so that they can continue to stay in power and it really is quite sad. The monetary system may have been needed in the past when resources were scarce but today technology is advanced enough that we can provide the basic necessities of life to everyone without a price tag. The problem is that the world bank and the governments and corporations they work with aren't going to give up the thing that keeps them in control which is the monetary system.
Sounds like you would like the whole world to be like Africa.
Sounds like an excuse for not doing any work and getting everything for free.
Yeah, I'll just hop on a free plane ride to the Carribeans, run by someone who has a passion for flying people in business class. Then I'll check in at a five star hotel and ask for a free presidential suite, which is run by this other passionate guy. Then I'll take this free yacht from yet another passionate guy and go sail around the beach. When the sun has set, I'll go back ashore and to thank the passionate chef for providing a free steak dinner and a bottle of 1986 Château Lafite Rothschild.
What a wonderful life.
People like flying and cooking. Other people just enjoy working for the sake of working.
I didn't say a system of barter was out, simply money. I also didn't say there wouldn't be a system of capitalism, simple that the current incarnation is fatally flawed.
You are also bending my words. There would be less if no high luxury. Lots of fat would be cut. We could get back to basics. There are so many unneeded things in our world just because some faggot has 50 billion dollars to spend.
You could be thinking positively and outside the box instead of just accepting things the way they are. No, there are no easy answers, but one thing is for sure. Our lifestyles and economy can not last this way for much longer. Exponential growth on a planet with limited resources is a fallacy.
Replacing the system of money with barter trading only demonstrates how little you even understand economics.
Take a moment to think how idiotic it is to bring a bunch of chickens around to trade for a haircut, a pair of shoes and a cell phone. Then slap yourself as you realise those chickens are basically a form of currency exchange.
Hey that line of thinking won't keep lazy high ranking politicians in the lap of luxury with taxpayer funded parachutes and lapdog rewards.
Imagine the second rape of nan king.
A chinese official reported on 500 renegade JSSDF officers overrunning the city, robbing pornography stores and bukakkeing all over chinese made figurines in the streets.
The JSDF can't even fight their way out of a paper bag, never mind finding their way to China.
They are so useless that their naval warship equipped with missile-defense radar rammed a fishing boat by accident. What the hell? All that military hardware and snazzy technology, and they can't see a bloody fishing boat in front of them?
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1810263520080219
i am hikikomori...
it's nice to finally know what my condition is. But to anyone who can't get thier head around the reasoning for why someone might do this maybe you can see at least my logic what little there is, and trolls can get back under thier bridges.
I was attacked by a gang when I was a kid, and avoided being murdered by a nasty set of thugs who broke my jaw and nose. My blood was everywhere and then they held a kitchen knife to my stomach, and threatened to kill me. I was somewhat shocked to say the least, but in hindsight I know I would of gotten past it, but once I was taken out of school by my father, he found them and was forcing me to confront them less than an hour after. At which point the flight side of my fight or flight reactions was doing laps at 100,000 feet around the globe in my mind.
So I stayed indoors fearful of the threat and you feel... safe. I know I'm the one who put myself in this open prison, but the bars are in the mind.
I'm aware of the low possibility of it even happening now a decade later (yes a decade.), but on the rare occasions I do go outside, I have to go through thier neighbourhood to go anywhere, and have crossed pathes again to fresh tirades of verbal abuse and threats. I kid myself I can ignore them because if such an incident does occur I get a sensory overload.
However I did have a job til it went into administration but was a night security job where your ironically isolated in areas your taken too are extremely remote and never got anything to bother you besides the local wildlife.
~~~~~~~~~
And yes it is extremely laughable that any group or government based scheme could count hikikomori's
~N~
If China copy this way of living, it'll be its doom... hope they do.
NO U
*Bro fist!*
all civilized societies are in decline due to the proliferation of verdampt untermensch und verminscum...
japan has simply reacted in a more obvious manner to the untermensh than the west has...
the solution is obvious and always has been, but the politicians are too gutless...
Politician Mass Suicide? No matter the problem, thats is always a great solution.
Heil Hit- *erm* Anonymous!
/sarcasm
I wish i could be one, and a rich one if possible but sadly i have to work and go to university =/
Those 2ch comments are legendary. Those guys are quite funny.
Bear in mind there were 1,000 or so posts in the thread - those were selected not to be representative but to be interesting.
"In a brash decision to put japan's hikkomori into military service, there are reports of a jump in suicide rates have risen up to 150%, while a sudden drop of population due to mirgration to other countries has in fact risen 50%. On to our next story, akihabara seems to have been taken over by the crazed Konata gang which claimed responsibility for-"
Why do some you take so much pride in being basement dwelling losers
stfu weaboo
NO U!!!!!!!!!!!
Damn....glad I'm not one of the extremities. Its fun seeing all the reports.
"We could launch a coup d’etat with that many."
...but how? They won't leave their own home ?.?
i think it is just unemployed rather than hikkimori
It looks like im some kind of hikikomori - I can spend whole month without living my room except toilet and meals. And I dont care to see my friends - just description in web communicator is enought to know how they are. :D
Okawari please!
"They must at least go to the convenience store. It’s unbelievable that there are so many “ultimate hikki” who never so much as set foot outside."
There's this little thing called the "Internet"... it's not impossible.
If this "hikikomori" would be social phobia, it is more common than most people think.
I and my wife have it as well. You would be surprised seeing how much people has social phobia and would pass as normal people. Not our case I say :-D.
USODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Perhaps now would be a good time for the Japanese government to employ Takizawa Akira's method of massive NEET exile in the middle east....
Stats like this naturally make you ask what the cutoff line is for when they consider someone a NEET or Hikikomori, and why they are grouping them together.
If they pay their bills and keep the economy running, that's fine. We don't need them walking at the streets. Useless.
I am a Hikikomori.
And I have Schizophrenia too to boot.
lol. 2ch's comments always amuse me.
I'm a high school girl hikkikomori :3
I dunno, I've only attained Tier 3+ of Otaku-ness. Two more ranks and I'll be Hiki..It's scary to think about, but strangely entertaining.
Case in point. The answer is YES! Japan is hyper-fucked up.
there are more hikikomoris in japan then people living in my country and they exceed the number around 1.600.000
Making a hikki party sounds like a good idea except that they wouldn't be able to vote because well, they won't leave the house.
Don't go out !!
Walter
The biggest problem with hikkikomoris is that they take up resources (food, shelter, clothing, parents' income) without contributing to society. It's a welfare state, no wonder Japan has been in decline since the 1990s.
You're making the assumption that the average Japanese salaryman actually contributes something to society themselves...
Most of the time they do nothing of consequence as inefficiently as possible, and they have the added consumption of using the public transportation system unlike the hikkikomori.
Seems they are to Japan what the Chav is to Great Britain.
What's a 'Chav'?
A Cockface
"It should also be noted that nobody has yet presented evidence (except perhaps the mass media and politicians) that the population of “hikikomori” in Japan is any higher than in other countries – socially isolated people exist in large numbers in any society."
Yes, except Japan is one of the few advanced countries dealing with a birthing problem and with too few workers supporting an increasingly overburdened pension system it's no great shock as to why Japan wants (or needs) to address this problem. They need more laborers to replace the pensioners exiting the labor force and to support their declining economic engine.
Yet you need to suck a lot of penis to get a working visa and then government has a program for kicking out non-pure elevens who work there because there's not enough work for everyone.
This is completely retarded.
Let's say X is the total number of workers that will retire. They obviously filled a total of X job positions, to be able to earn retirement.
Birthrate has shrunk, so the work force is now compromised of a total of Y young persons. They tell us that Y < X, so Y doesn't produce enough money for supporting the old work force, X. We'd need at least Y = X.
But then, the total number of available jobs is now Z. Z < Y < X.
So the conclusion is that there are too much workers. Yet the government says they need more workers. How the fuck does this make sense? they say there's not enough workers, but people able to work are unemployed even though they are actively searching for a job. If there weren't enough people in the workforce, unemployment should be close to 0%, shouldn't it? This happens everywhere else, not only in Japan. I have not been able to figure this out yet. My current hypothesis is that governments have temporarily shrunk Z so they can privatize pensions completely, and when public pensions are done for Z will be equal to X again.
there is also the possibility that some unemployed people are not qualified for certain jobs which are otherwise open
"Yet you need to suck a lot of penis to get a working visa and then government has a program for kicking out non-pure elevens who work there because there's not enough work for everyone."
...you have said it, anon, 10 points for you.
Well the reason is also simple.
All people together can consume Q amount of goods. The X number of people produced that Q amount 50 years ago, but now, even if we take increased consumption (higher Q) into account, we only need Z number of people to produce that Q because, 1.Technology is more advanced so less human work is needed, and 2.to maximize profit (which is necessary in capitalism) the best way is to use less human work (most expensive) as well.
If we also take into account that this Q is already way higher than what we have raw materials for (oil, minerals, land, etc) and it will have to get reduced greatly, that means our Z will further decline. Plus, as there are fewer workers, the unemployed can buy less stuff as they have no way of earning money, so Q and thus Z will further decline.
To say it more simple : 1 person can produce a lot more stuff by working that what he can consume. So giving a job to everyone is outright impossible, unless they make people consume more, which is also impossible as the earth can't support any more production.
As for the Y<X problem, the system is wrong. If you don't keep the money paid by the X people when they worked to give it back to them later, and instead spend it on whatever else, and later you try to pay it from other sources (in this case the money of the Y young people that will work in the future), the means you just made yourself a GIGANTIC debt towards the X old people. This is exactly the same thing that Madoff guy did before he went to the prison..."give me your money, and I'll pay you a lot more later...(from the money I get from people in this same way later, but I won't tell you that)". It's against the law normally, but they use that system for pension all over the world anyway. And both collapses as soon as Y<X meaning the new entering people are fewer than the ones already in the system.
But if Q is higher now, and Z is much smaller than X (both true, I agree), that means that the system is actually making more profit than before. Y cannot support X because they receive proportionally the same wages they did when X worked. Isn't the obvious solution to make Y receive a salary proportional to Q, and not a fixed one only related to time worked and things like demand on specialization?
If Y earned more money, they could support X and the unemployed Y; even with higher taxes they'd still be receiving more. And they could split maximum weekly work by a fraction so there's jobs for everyone, even if the pay is a bit less. And with salary actually tied to real productivity (the productivity of the industry, not your own productivity) reflected with big numbers on the paycheck, everything would be more efficient.
Of course that would mean the higher ups would get less money, so this isn't going to happen any time soon. If they could they'd make Z = 0 and Q = infinite, and then they'd let all of X and Y die of starvation.
You know if we acknowledge that money is just a piece of paper then there would be no starvation, no pressure and no need of this economical problems... well lets get to the three hypotheses if Y<X then that means there will be less production right? but you say that Z is smaller so it will drop the production more and Q which is raw materials will drop further more... haven't you ever thought that is somehow we make Y=Q<Z then if Z falls Y and Q will fall proportionally and will make our right now problem happen in a much farther time and think on a way out? but i guess this is a bit out topic with the hikikomori...
I think it is because out of X people who have retired, A people were the kind that create new jobs. Starting companies, expanding businesses, etc. With their retirement, all that their replacements can think of is firing some workers to decrease expenses. As a result, number of jobs available shrinks to Z.
What these replacements lack is called "entrepreneurial ability", and Japanese education system does its best to stunt it. For that matter, most of education systems do.
People with "entrepreneurial ability" are born in hard times, when doing something actually changes the outside world. During times of prosperity, people don't get the chance to exercise it properly and become the kind of people who create workplaces.
Adam Smith would be proud.
i was intending to ignore you at first but you make a lot of sense. Do post in the forum more often :D
That's simple. There are lots of jobs, but people don't want to do them.
There could be lots of college graduates fighting over a few white collar jobs. Everyone just wants to sit comfortably in an air-con office giving orders. Seriously, how many vice president of sales and marketing does a company need?
Then we have blue collar jobs these pampered college kids don't want to touch. Customer service, retail sales, technicians, etc. The college kids complain the hours too long, the job is too menial, too boring, blah blah.
So Japan needs foreigners to fill up all kinds of jobs. This is not to say foreigners are all doomed to do blue collar jobs.
Your question: "Seriously, how many vice president of sales and marketing does a company need?"
My joke answer: "Fewer than Sony has."
Regarding less-than-good jobs: If I spent the time and money going to college, so I'd get a "good" job, why the hell would I want to work at a "not-good" job?
The days of "join our company, and have a job for life" mode are over, both in the U.S., and in Japan.
As a new graduate, I wouldn't mind starting out in the mail room to learn the business, as long as I had a reasonable assurance that I'd be doing more-interesting and better-paying work in the near future.
But, it's not safe to believe that. Companies are cutting jobs, cutting benefits, out-sourcing and off-shoring, just to make their quarterly numbers look good.
There's a big "Fuck you!" "No, fuck YOU!" battle going on between workers and management.
If you graduate college and join a company at the management level, "all" you need to watch out for is politics and corporate re-organizations ("We're eliminating your division. Clean out your desk.").
It's a conspiracy!!
Well since they are counting in Metric, the actual number converted to USA number counting system only about 666,000 so its not all that bad.
BTW, hikikomori in the USA are made of people who have been beaten to death but survived, by either crime groups setting up operations in residential neighborhoods or by the local (corrupt) kangaroo court lawyers who kill people to get cases through the system that shouldn't. My estimate just off the top of my head is (looks above) .. 3,600,000 victims of crimes suffering from pain and lack of sleep in the USA right now...
Actually, In some states they're forcing parents into the idea that their children have ADD and ADHD.They must force the child to take medication or be threaten to take the child away from the Parents by Social Services.
When the Child grows up many years he can be sucessful or not.
So what about children, who actually do have ADD or ADHD, I suppose they're faking it right?
Actually, the idea is that ADD/ADHD is just a personality type that doesn't mesh well with school-based situations.
It's less the fault of the kids than it is the fault of the system, and we're basically tranquilizing them in order to get them to conform. Do you think that's right?
Yes!Considering how we're creating mass produce Robot's called "Child" of course they may have many defects in their programming so we must use substance known as "Ritalin" In order for them to function correctly.
Many results show ether positive or negetive results (Mostly Negetive) due to side effects of nervousness and insomnia, loss of appetite, nausea,vomiting, dizziness, palpitations, headaches, changes in heart rate,blood pressure (usually elevation of both, but occasionally depression), skin rashes,itching, abdominal pain, weight loss,digestive problems, toxic psychosis, psychotic episodes, drug dependence syndrome, and severe depression upon withdrawal.
At the cost of making a perfect machine we also saw that long term side-effects in High doses of stimulants produce a predictable set of symptoms that include loss of appetite (may cause serious malnutrition), tremors and muscle twitching, fevers, convulsions, and headaches (may be severe), irregular heartbeat and respirations (may be profound and life threatening), anxiety, restlessness, paranoia, hallucinations, and delusions, excessive repetition of movements and meaningless tasks, and formicaton (sensation of bugs or worms crawling under the skin).
We are not just helping the Machines we're killing it slowly making sure they're isolated from Society at the cost of social security programs and keeping them from harm.At the cost of Billions of dollers I guess we have to blame the "child" by killing them slowly with pills.
what about force them to Dubai ???
if they don't work they all will starve to the death ??? (eden of the east)
only real Neets is negative mine post.
thx to you for this approve
negative for your grammar
Holy shit, Estonia has 1.400.000
THEY REALLY CAN MAKE THEYRE OWN COUNTRY.
"socially isolated people exist in large numbers in any society."
That may be true, but what is defined as hikikomori is strictly a Japanese social phenomenon. Even basement-dwellers in the West often have jobs of some kind, although they are certainly not glamorous ones. It should also be noted that hikikomori do not exist in less affluent countries, since their parents (if they have them) do not possess sufficient means to support them.
Seriously...how do they count them?=|
Take all of the Japan's population, and subtract everyone who is not a hikkikomori. That will probably give you a bigger number than there is, but it is good for pushing around laws.
I think hikkis did this count. How the hell would the outside world would know if the hikkis themselves don't appear in public.
Take the number of people in Japan. Subtract those who work somewhere - there is a detailed record of these (to collect taxes). Subtract those who are studying or training - there should be a record of these as well. You now have the number of NEETs. Some of these might be vagabonds, yakuza, prostitutes, and other criminals. Subtract these too, the police have an idea how many of these there are. The remaining people don't earn their money and don't learn. Subtract small children and elderly out of this number. What remains are mostly hikkikomori. And a few odd people like artists and hermits that got mixed in to inflate the statistics.
It seems indeed really hard to count such kind of people... The number looks also too big, it's really a serious problem for Japan if that's the case...
Even if i don't mind hikikomori, maybe i'm one myself ^^
(well, i do keep a minimum of social interactions^^)
It's not all that hard for Japan's government to make a reasonable guess on the number of hikikomori or NEETs. They don't even need to go knock on people's houses and count the hikikomoris one by one.
Based on census records, birth records, banking records, education records, employment records, and all those information the government has access to, they can make a fairly good estimate on how many people are not gainfully employed, or not attending education/training, or simply undergoing long medical treatment for more than 6 months. How else do you think governments work out their quarterly or annual unemployment rate?
It is certain there's some margin of error in the government's estimates. They might end up counting people whose records are spotty (such as homeless people), or some records might not be updated. However, even if the margin of error is as ridiculous as 50%, having 1.8m hikikomoris is still very troubling.
3% for japan; whats it for USA? fuck me at least 80% of girls 13-23 are hikkomori and in nc its 100% or there's a lot of daddy's with sex slave in the basements because they don't exist here! Period! and the few that come outside are either 0. old 1. UGLY 2. FAT 3.OBESE 4. MORBIDLY OBESE 5. SUPER MORBIDLY OBESE 6. ARE FARM ANIMALS. Welcome to the NHK was a joke there is no loli waiting outside for you magically just cows and old people and nightmares; so if your thinking of getting rid of your hikkomori ways don't! Because when you do you epic lose! and if by some chance that your a hot girl 13-23 and are reading this( which your not) go outside and fuck the first guy you see. and have fun, some some pot get laid... because in a few years of a hikkomori life you will become 0.1.2.3.4.5.6!
Resentful.
Sorry to break it to you, but there are not millions of hot girls staying indoors in the USA. The USA is just chock full of fat people. NC in particular is one of the fattest states. 30% of obesity, +30% of overweight, so only 40% have normal weight. Then you must subtract who knows how much % of ugly people, retards, etc. So it's no wonder you can't find cute girls... they are almost extinct. Your alternative would be fleeing the United States of Lard in search of greener pastures.
i vote we make a pilgrimage to form a new neet society.
Don't open it!
Their not hikikomori their just zashki-warashi! :D
lol thats a good one xD!
ZETSUBOUSHITA!
Why would they want to go outside when they have unlimited high speed internet? Plus it's the land of all things otaku, so it gives them even more reason to shun the outside world.
What about fresh air?
Ew air!
Overated~
'Sides, i'd imagine most of them live in cities, which are well known for their "fresh air"
Don't you mean exhaust fumes? :P
Hm thats more than 1/3 of my country :D
That is my whole island with a little extra.
You don't own an island, stop deluding yourself.
That's about a million more than my entire country :D
The census done for this tally must have been pretty easy.
Knock a few times, no answer, then +1
So wait.... if you where a hikikomori who answered your door to see if they were delivering pizza then you WOULDN'T be counted as a hikikomori?!?
If you're expecting one,
and it smells like one,
it's the pizza guy.
Other than that, it's the army corps knocking (or bashing) your door to sign up.
But don't tempt them; if one snaps, we'll have a worse scenario than the Akibahara stabbing incident