Bioware: “JRPGs are Stagnant”

I'll be frank.

First off, this article feels like another footnote in the long list of people talking up a storm on how one side of the RPG spectrum is better.

As a player of both videogame and tabletop RPGs from both sides of the ocean, I do not believe either side is better than the other. Rather, I view them as two sides of the same coin; taking a cue from GNS theory, wRPGs are simulationist, whereas jRPGs are gamist. I think the primary reason certain jRPG franchises became such a hit is due to having a 'pick up and play' approach to the matter. Dragon Quest is one of the biggest examples of this.

I don't prefer one or the other (though I admit i'd like to see a little more variety in wRPG worlds), I just think that, not to sound cliche, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Gotta say I agree. Luckily, Final Fantasy Tactics didn't do this, but then I played Final Fantasy X and I guess I just thought, "What the hell is this crap?"
Persona 3 and 4 sort of did it, but it was at a respectable level for me. The journey through the game was very open.

I have no problem with a game being "linear" as long as the story is good and it's a fun experience (Earthbound, for example, which probably was helped by never taking itself seriously).

Otherwise, yeah, I've nearly removed myself from playing JRPGs because of exactly this.

JRpgs are in a sad state of stagnation.

How could you deny this?

in truth u all know y u play jrpgs... for the hot chicks that show up in them.. and u all know how lacking american games r in those.

I don't care much about the storyline for a game. While yes a game with hardly any story does suck IDAF if it's linear or not. I care more about the gameplay than I do other things.

"The fall of the JRPG in large part is due to a lack of evolution, a lack of progression. They kept delivering the same thing over and over. They make the dressing better, they look prettier, but it’s still the same experience."

Why do I sense so much envious coming from this guy? The fall of the JRPG??? Final fantasy 13 just sold over a million copies in a single day alone, in Japan ONLY.

Anyway, what's today JRPG developers guilty of are they always underestimated the western gamers: dumbing down the gameplay, censor/westernize certain part of the story/scenes, try too hard to make their JRPG appeal to western audience... Thus, today's JRPGs lost the luster they got during the 90's.

Um, the Bioware guy has a point. I think the author here has their head a bit too far up Japan's ass... I fully understand that sankakucomplex is extremely opinionated, leaning towards paedophilia, and strongly pro Japan, but to defend the JRPG only by saying "Well Bioware sucks too" is just pure lame. At least throw a single title in the article to try and prove him wrong, other than call foul on a company which has been pushing itself constantly to provide as much flexibility in it's games as possible. It has not simply made Baldur's Gate... what's Final Fantasy at now? XIII?

Linear or not, you have to admit most JRPGs have kickass outfits.

If you want to include DA:O or other IPs from Bioware, you have to do the same for square enix.
TWEWY was a completely different JRPG than any of the final fantasies. Square enix doesn't equal final fantasy. In fact, since bioware criticized JRPGs as a whole, you have to consider games like Demons souls and the tales of series and compare them to each other.

It seems that the largest thing in common between WRPG players and JRPG players is their level of rampant fanboyism...

I want to play a game not watch a long ass fucking movie.

This Article is 100% right. im so tired of the crappy cookie cutter JRPGs that never change. Alawys the same crap. always anime looking always aimed at 14 year olds.

Bioware hasent released a innovative game since baldur's gate? hahah someones butthurt about there preferred preferably.

I think he (Greg Zeschuk) just states the obvious. There will always be a day that ideas will be exhausted and there will be no more innovation just like what we see in anime. Actually, what he said is the same for all gaming platforms. What has changed in Platforming, FPS, RTS, RPGs, Racing, Simulation, etc? Instead of stating the obvious why don't he just make an innovation at RPGs. Do it with action and not on empty and useless words. But something bothers me, what if a supposedly "RPG" game was so innovated that it can't be called as an RPG? What does make an RPG? Why is a game called an RPG if it hasn't have any similarities to it's predecessors?

"Ironic words indeed, coming from a company which itself has yet to deliver any significant innovations since its magnum opus Baldur’s Gate series, released in 1998…"

No innovation since Baldur's Gate? I'm sorry, but that's simply not true, although I love how you completely pass off your opinion as undisputed fact. Nicely done.

I love how everyone completely missed the point of what they were trying to accomplish with the original Neverwinter Nights, which was, to translate the table top DND experience as best as they were able to the PC. Given the unprecedented level of control they gave you over crafting your own RPG experience through module creation, I think they succeeded admirably. And the idea of allowing the Dungeon Master to participate invisibly in real-time offered further fine control over a campaign as your friends played through it. I spent countless hours just messing with the 2DA files, and creating my own spells and magical items, including a ring of transposition, which was great fun.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of gamers are blood sucking consumers, so most of them approached the game from the built-in campaign perspective. Durp.

Besides Bethseda's Elder Scroll series, I can't think of any other RPG which offered such an incredible amount of replayability.

Pfft. That's the pot calling the kettle black.

Most JRPGs that are worth playing have decent if not great stories. Most WRPGs I've seen are more or less one dude, running around, doing nothing (With optional good/evil [No middle ground] system!)in particular to a plot that, thanks to the 'totally open world' is usually enough to make some of the most cliche fan fictions look like works of intelligent planning.

Mind you, I'm not saying that JRPGs are a creative wonderland, I'm just saying I'd rather play a game with interesting characters and story-lines than an open world without any half decent plot and a party that consists of a blank canvas supposed to represent 'me', and will in all likelihood be a grizzled male without a lick of hair on his head.

I am only going to agree on the part about what the person that said "They kept delivering the same thing over and over", which the Japanese do sometimes make same old storyline where the Hero must save the world from an over powered godly evil being.

I am going to counter that by saying Bioware does the samething showing there concept of a Hero must make a choice to do good or evil which also effects your relationship with your party members its always ways in there games.

I just say that JAPS and their FFs are FAGS!!!!
Except for the inspirational EarthBound, not the gameplay that special but the themes (a contemporary world). Earthbound inspires today's games such as Left 4 Dead (four protagonist, one of them are girl), Fallout 3 (exploring RPG in a post-apocalyptic fashion), and Persona (set in contemporary Japan). Too bad Earthbound and Mother 3 practically massacred by the far worst FF, in which FF has horrible dialogue (ff7), and apparently Squeenix uses hypnosis to attract their peoples.

SO, with the exception of EarthBound and Persona, JRPGs are FOR FAGS!!!!

I still love Morrowind, with the right mods its still the best RPG I've played. Oblivion, while a pale shadow of its predecessor, is still quite fun to play. After the Elder Scrolls games D20 systems feel really stifling, especially when it comes to character creation and fights.
The ability to mod WRPGs is why I prefer them to console JRPGs. You can change the world to suit you.

Regardless of who is stating it, it's quite true that gameplay wise, there's not much of a core difference between Final Fantasy 1 and Final Fantasy 13.

I was hoping that Square would have gone further with the way they made Final Fantasy 12, but sadly they went back to basics.

Most likely they, like every other company, is trying to cater to a bigger croud and thus dumbs elements of the game down.

Dragon Age Origins is a 2009 title that is far more evolved than the average JRPG. Fallout 3 has more open ended events taking place, especially with the added downloadable content. S.T.A.L.K.E.R., a less recent game, yet truly worthy title, has more than one trick up its sleeve (though isn't the work of Bioware). Mass Effect 1, 2 and Knight's of the Old Republic are quite interesting to mention as well.

Ironic words indeed, coming from a company which itself has yet to deliver any significant innovations since its magnum opus Baldur’s Gate series, released in 1998…

- the heck?-_-

Hmmm... I enjoy both.

When you design an rpg you choose to focus on story or gameplay or in between.

So in the end final fantasy xii with a good story is the pinnacle rpg?

Not interested in WRPG

Umm, isn't "goody two shoes, an ass or something in between" is pretty much the whole spectrum of human character? Is there something others than being completly bad, completly good or not completly bad, not completly good?

Unless you're also adding people who are vegetable. That's all there is to characters.

ITT, raging weaboos who can't handle the truth about the turds they've been worshiping uncondtionally.

I like RPGs from both sides of the world. There may not have been major innovations since Baldur's Gate, but there was innovation nonetheless. Most JRPGs I pick up today in 2009 are not as fun as the ones I played in the late 90s. Blue Dragon is an exceptional example of a boring JRPG that is nowhere near as good as a late 90s RPG like Vagrant Story or Finaru Fantajii.

People who played Fallout 2 would kill you for making that comment.

Fallout 3 was pretty enjoyable, but only until you remembered how good Fallout 2 was.
F3 is essentially extremely shallow and dumbed down console version of Fallout.

by that argument, then jrpgs are far ahead of Bioware when it comes to art direction (who can't seem to ever get their concept art into their games). S-E kicks Bioware's ass!

it doesn't mean much to cherry pick a concept then claim that one concept defines the whole.
something might be greater than the sum of its parts but a singular part never equals the entire sum.

wrpgs have more dialogue choice, fine (though i could name jrpgs that dispute that, even versus Bioware's "super innovative" Mass Effect dialogue). when was it decided then that dialogue choice equaled the jrpgs are inferior because THAT is Zeschuk's conclusion.
you use that one factor comparison to conclude an entire product.

that makes far less sense than Arte's "counter"

You see, most people who got into JRPGs (particularly those that got into them with Final Fantasy VII) tend to associate weird or eccentric looks with personality, so essentially your speech will fall on deaf ears.

So, in fact, the only thing developers like BioWare and Bethesda need in their games are characters with much more glitz and zazz... and maybe also try new argumentative settings besides strictly medieval, strictly sci-fi, the Star Wars franchise... you know, come up with something else, like Team Andromeda's Panzer Dragoon universe, or Oddworld.

Rendering it a linear game, and shorter

DA:O is pretty much overhyped shit.

Basic premise made me cringe. Elfes, dwarfs and grasp.... dragons (which they call archdemon:/) Horrible rip off at Catolic Church.
You really cannot make a more bland setup. After games like WITCHER or STALKER, you really expect more story-wise.

They removed all stats, so you either go totally blind (and PRAY that devs really thought about double staff wielding dwarfs and balanced the game for them, or you're forced to use walkthroughs).

Dialog choices and branching is pretty much retarded, the whole time I'm thinking what to chose to predict what I can say next, instead of going with certain approach.

The party emo-management was even worse. Now I cannot even play the game in direction I like because stupid, whiny _only_healer_in world_ will whine about it and quit. And if I play it her way, my tank will. Jesus.

The tactics screen could be a lot of fun, if only they added option:
-don't kill your teammates with offensive spells.
-(don't run blindly into friendly AoE spells would be a welcome addnition, too)
Even with halved friendly fire, a single fireball does more damage to my tank than entire engagement.

I could rage and rage about DA:O for hours.

according to credits, BIS was involved, but Bioware was the head/main studio behind it.
really as far as the infinity engine days Bioware and BIS worked together a lot which is why the two studios got along so well over the years

I, for one, would like to see an RPG (from anywhere in the world) that doesn't involve Ancient Evil Power Re-Emerges, Evil Empire Can Only Be Stopped By You And 3-5 Friends, or Massive Religion Is Actually a Front For Evil Organization.

Those plots are wearing a bit thin.

Haha, you could say that about any JRPG.

I dunno.. Persona 4's pretty nice. It's only because it's a one-player thing that makes it seem stagnant.

I mean even in WoW, basement dwellers can shout at each other.

In Persona 4, "HELLZ YEAH. CHIE'S LEVELED UP!!!! GO.... me?"

Of course it's linear. There's a beginning, and there's an end.

Get the Bioware team back together (before they get old and die or rusty - it has been 10 years already) and make more Baldur type RPGs or at least an easy to use editor for the isometric platform. Better 3D graphics while good cannot beat a good characterization or better yet customization of scripts or insertions of new regions, quests, maps and characters.

You just need to play Aion to discover there are far worse things than JRPGs.

Is it surprising they are trashing JRPGs? After all they are their main competition. I agree, every Bioware RPG after Baldur's Gate is fail.

I can't believe nobody's even mentioned the Disgaea series when talking about innovative JRPG's.

I really don't care how linear and unevolved a game is as long as I have fun playing. Just because some games are more "evolved" than others doesn't make them better.

Dear Racist Up-Himself Bioware Motherfucker:

Do you want to Die By:

1) Strangulation
2) Disembowelment
3) Electrocution

There, "Linear" enough for your Asian hating ass?

I just played DA its nice Bioware is ok...

but still Troika is/was better I'd say....

nonetheless, torrents of BLOOOD!! DA does rock somewhat... but the secks could have been more pornographic

Being a poor, ignorant, and uninformed fool, would anyone like to list some:
non-linear WRPGs
linear JRPGs

Most of you have lost the real meaning here with games.

Was it fun to play? If yes than that's all you need and if no than put it down and play another game and enjoy it end of story.

I hate to say it but Bioware is kind of correct. A lot of things that are seen in respect for games being too linear (like FF13 for example) is just plain disrespect for the RPG community.

Mass Effect did give you a lot more choices and exploration, had sex scenes in it, didn't have turn base fighting, and even let you customize your very own character if you wanted to have one that way. However I have yet to see a JRPG to do this, unfortunately..

And for those who thing Mass Effect 1 as too linear, let's not forget the sequel is coming out soon too..

most Innovative RPG this year: AVALON CODE

FUCK YOU BIOWARE!!!!

hehe mithra dancer!

The man is right. I don't need a crystal ball to know that Mass Effect is going to have better plot and characterization than FF13.

'failed to deliver any significant innovations' since baldur's gate? Thats bullshit. What about Mass Effect? And if we're talking purely of number of choices in-game, then final fantasy doesn't even compare to single one of bioware's games. In my view though, its like apple's and oranges, something to like in both.

Wait 'til Natal comes out.

It will

BLOW

YOUR

MIND.

Valkyria Chronicles!
Nothing more to say mr. Greg Zeschuk.
Oh! Yes! Don't make assumptions based on Sankakucomplex news mr. Greg Zeschuk.

I'm inclined to agree with Bioware on this one. The last jrpg I played was Tales of Vesperia, which was fun not much different from previous Tales games. Square Enix is just as guilty, slight changes to mechanics but extremely linear stories. Games like Dragon Age let me decide what happens in the story and if I'm a hero or a villian. Jrpgs need to do more of that if they want to stay competitive in America.

Whoever wrote this article is extremely butthurt. Baldurs gate? Try Neverwinter nights, Knights of the old Republic, Mass effect alone was one of the most innovative rpgs of the past few years.