Microsoft’s recent mass banning of users of modded consoles from Xbox Live apparently did not go far enough – banned users are now learning that they can no longer use their console’s HDD for any meaningful purpose, with installation to the drive no longer possible on a blacklisted console…
An abridged description of the changes:
Firstly, and most obviously, you cannot connect to Xbox Live on this console any more. This means no more game updates (aka title updates), XBLA games, marketplace content, netflix/sky player and so on. There is no way around this, all online capabilities are now disabled PERMANENTLY.
Hard Drive installs are now disabled on the banned console. This means any disk-based games you have will no longer play off of the hard drive.
There is no way to fix this, that functionality is simply gone from the banned 360.
Windows Media Centre functionality is disabled. It is still possible to stream video/music content via the video library.
So, in summary:
Your Banned 360:
* Cannot go on Xbox Live
* Cannot install games to the HDD
* Cannot use Windows Media Centre extender
* Cannot be used to get achievements from backups without corrupting your profile
With no warranty, Internet access, or even hard drive, it might have been kinder just to “brick” the consoles and render them entirely inoperative…
wat an asshole
I'd say, the assholes are those who modified their consoles to play pirated games.
It was gonna happen, sooner or later.
That's right! Take THAT for modding your consoles. And don't blame Microsoft if you've failed to read the EULA.
Oo ppl read the EULA, they must be pretty bored. Hacking is cool, Pirates suxs
Well, does modding your fan to a higher voltage count ?
My friends friend did this, but have yet to hear from him.
How do you know they are playing pirated games? Because MS says so? How do you know they aren't fathers with kids who may scratch up the original copy, and thus use legal backups?
Who's 360 is it?
@ > How do you know they aren't fathers with kids who may scratch up the original copy, and thus use legal backups?
I'm sure 4 people are outraged that this has happened to them. The rest are doubtless just angry they got caught.
If your original breaks, you can get a replacement from MS ...there is no reason to make "legal" copies (varies from country to country).
Well it detects mods in console not the game. A non-modded one will simply not recognize it.
And btw
1) I am too poor to buy official games for my modded XboX however
2) I am also too poor to pay for XboX Live feature;
3) I did not buy any additional HDDs to save money when I purchased the console,
so this still doesn't concern me. XD
The only reason I mod my consoles is so I can play euro and jap games. If they what me to stop modding then make the shit region free. I don't understand why they don't, wouldn't it give them more money?
> wouldn't it give them more money?
Chances are, games are released at different prices in different regions. So they'd end up losing money if people always import stuff from the cheapest region.
^Lol I'll say
Ps3 doesnt have region coded shit(aside from DLC), neither does the psp or nds. Dunno about Wii but prolly doesnt either.
Why xbox360 so special :D?
if u never went online, will u get caught?
Nope. Also, maybe if you buy a game with a Firmware update requirement on it which you install.
Wii is region coded, much more so than the 360.
There are actually a fair few games that don't have region coding on the 360, notably Microsoft, Koei and Bioware games. since MS doesn't region block their own games you can bet its certain publishers themselves putting the region coding on the DVDs, so they can gouge some markets (IE Australia).
Unfortunately, Japanese publishers do have a habit of putting region coding on their games, hence why I cry at Dream Club or Death Smiles.
Wii doesn't have any zero region games, alas, which is the main reason I don't have one.
So why is it that none of the publishers who produced PSP, or PS3 games region lock their games? Isn't it horribly coincidental that it mostly happens on 360?
Does this really matter in the long run? It's just a matter of time before people find a way around this after all
PSP and PS3 were designed to be region free, so the devs have to make them region free. Microsoft lets it up to the devs. Some of them will make their games region free, and most of them will make it region locked.
That being said, on PS3, I've seen some games support, only 480i or only 540i, making people with SDTV region locked if they don't live in the right region. But it doesn't apply to HD since it's a general resolution all around the world.
@Darkrockslizer
pirated 360 games usually come with some sort of stealthpatch to prevent microsoft from detecting pirated games.
People always thought that this was enough to protect them from a Live ban or some sort of anti-piracy measures, it seems that this was just false hope.
It's just naive to think that 360 games don't come with a protection like PC games do. It's just stupid to play pirated games on xbox live... its like playing World of Warcraft with illegal methods on the official servers.
Of course they'll find out sooner or later...
People can be happy about the fact that Microsoft wont say which accounts got banned, in case some publisher wants those informations to file lawsuits against the pirates. GAR GAR. At least, thats what they said... and its part of their ToS that they wont give out Account details for whatever reasons.
Doesn't matter what their purpose for modding the 360 was. Modding it violates the terms and conditions they agreed to when they signed up for Live, and as a consequence of violating those terms and conditions, they can no longer connect to Live. Pretty cut and dry.
Only with OEM versions, those are supposed to be sold along with the system and Microsoft provides no support for OEM. Support should be provided by the system builder itself system builder itself (HP, Dell, etc).
Microsofts definition of a system iirc was a motherboard, CPU, powersupply and either a harddisk or solid state disk.
(There's something about needing to sell the system in their EULA as well, but they'll already let it be known they will take no action against people who buy it to run on their homebuild rig - They'd rather have you running windows than something else after all)
Retail version isn't bound to hardware, you can move it from one system to another and support is available from Microsoft itself.
Let the person who has never pirated anything in their lives(music, movies, ect.) cast the first stone!!! Becauz I can guarantee you that just about all you people who cry "stealing is wrong!" have illegally downloaded music on their iPod or has watched/bought a pirated movie OR know people that downloads music illegally or has pirated movies AND I'm willing to bet your not going to turn them/yourself in to police. HYPOCRISY ANYONE!? Get up off ur high horse cuz in a honesty many of you people are no different or don't have the balls to act on what you say!!!
Yes, but is bricking the HDD part of the TOS for Live?
Bullshit. Sony did not design the PS3 to be region free. Their policy when you publish a game is so you have to make it region free or get Sony's blessing to do otherwise. There is no way in hell that you can have a system designed to be region free then have the DLC be region locked.
I hate clueless fucktards.
Some idiots were playing Modern Warfare 2 on XBL two weeks before the official release. If they are retarded enough to do that, they deserve to get banned.
Here is where I look forward to the rapid decline to the popularity of the xbox 360...
Not really anywhere on the console war myself but for some reason I get a war fuzzy feeling when a company like Microsoft screws over its customers good or bad and then frantically tries to do something about it later
People who have MW2 early is because some gamestop and some other stores released the game earlier than the assigned date so they may not necessarily be pirated.
>>Hexa
Have you heard of tariffs???
there is a misunderstanding here. Assuming that every modded console = pirated games is a mistake. There is still a chance that the owner of the modded console would have bought the original game.
unless MS can conform that the user is in actual fact trying to install a pirated copy of the game, then they have no Right to block the user from doing what they want.
Even if the console is modded, there should be a way of telling if the current game is pirated or not. Assuming that all the titles are pirated is the wrong way of going about it. And MS have no right to disable the device without any proof that the user did indeed use pirated games.
I own a modded console, I mistakenly assumed that since it have been cracked it would allow me to play games from another region (Dream "C" Club). But do I own my games and have no intention of getting "pirated" games? then the answer is "YES".
The PS3 is still my primary console, if there is a game to comes on both console, then I am getting the PS3 version. I only wanted the xbox360 for their exclusive titles, especially the Japanese ones. But now I regret wasting my money on this extra loud console (that my brother calls "a small airplane"). And MS is NOT helping me love it.
I'm pretty sure MS have the "right" to do anything they like if you break their terms of service.
It clearly states in the EULA and elsewhere that modifying the console isn't allowed.
never heard about false positive? what if they block you for a mistake? not first time that things like this happen when you are a "microsoft's friend".
Yes, I guess if I accidentally rip my 360 open, accidentally mod the drive and accidentally torrent and burn a couple games for it, I could be in quite a sticky situation indeed.
From all reports, it's pretty clear when a console's been tampered with.
That's when you call customer support and shout "Hey fuckers you fucked my unmodded console"
Microsoft has way to much remote access to systems. I am changing all my hardware to Linux systems. I am so tired of their remote shutdowns and license Nazism (I do not pirate microsoft products, I do not own an xbox, I own many computers in my house and I mod them fairly regularly so I get tired of the registry nonsense when they are all legal copies of the O/s I purchased (full copies))
Remote shutdowns xD Seriously put on your aluminum hat and go sit in your bunker man. That is a lot of horse crap you're proclaiming there mate.
Microsoft's snichware is hardwired everywhere in their systems. Shit happens more then you think. That's how my buddy got caught. Lulz at his $20,000 fine.
Read the EULA for Vista sometime. Microsoft claims the right to remotely disable any application they don't like. If they decided, say, OpenOffice was cutting too deeply into their sales of MS Office, they could flip a switch tomorrow and make all Internet-connected copies of Windows refuse to install or run OpenOffice.
actually theres something behind this comment the fact you need windows' approval if you upgrade your rig too much than what is saved into your mobo's cmos or something like that you know windows tagging your PC specs and its hardware
Actually EULAs are not really binding (neither are TOS) they can sell your info to Russian spammers without much problem and equally they can't sent the FBI after you just for braking the EULA hence why they need the DMCA.
But good luck suing MS for damages. No you only got two options:
One, don't buy into this shit, or at least don't be an xbox fanboy, try make console and corporate fanboyism uncool, no one deserves unconditional faith, not MS, not Sony, not Nintendo.
Two donate to, join or start a group to break these locks. Remember, the console was near bricked for being modded, modding means making the console serve its owner, not its maker, these lock can be futher modded out.
yuriphoria hits the nail on the head.
People should be researching how to break these locks and talking to their nearest 'hacker friend' about finding a way to 'change' the firmware on these machines so that they are now able to run normally while telling Microsoft's servers "Sorry.... already got the latest version of your firmware/breakware!" until someone has 'cracked' the new firmware once again.
Microsoft is pushing the boundaries of what the law in the United States says is 'reasonable' for them to do..... if you want them to stop doing this shit, you have to hit them in the pocketbook.
Dude, your 360 is loud? What the hell did you do to it? Mine is very quiet, and has been from when I first got it. Now it's even quieter that I've been using the install to drive feature.
My PS3 on the other hand is in competition with my vacuum for the noise it makes.
And so what if Microsoft chooses to do what it wants to protect its own interests. It clearly states in the EULA of what you can and cannot do, and if they feel you've broken those terms, then that's just tough luck. And no, ignorance (because you haven't read the EULA in its entirity) isn't a viable means of defense against any action taken my Microsoft.
Play by the rules, buy your games normally, play them honestly, don't mod anything and you have nothing to worry about.
Seriously, it seems that the only ones upset and complaining about this are those who are doing it.
Besides, inside those "evil corporate empires" are normal people just trying to make a living. Why in the hell would you want take that away or put it in jeopardy just because you wanted to play a free game.
Seriously, just man up and pay like the rest of us and stop complaining already. There's no such thing as a "free lunch."
shut up fatimmortal
you DICK SLAP
So, you got banned from everything because you have a modded console? Too bad for you.
Pissed modfag is pissed.
Apparently, alot of gamers who knew what games are will buy original copies though they played the pirated versions.
People play pirated games not because they are cheap scape but people who are not as rich as you who think every game deserves to be funded.
For me I choose which game deserves to be bought original. If the game convinces me that the developers have put in enough effort to create the game, then I will get the original though I have already played the game over. For me, I feel that the developers have delivered and therefore I am due to pay for the game. If the game fails to meet my expectations, then why should I pay for it?
Gamers are paid to be entertained. So the question goes to the Xbox360 owners who got Tales of Verspera. Do you think the amount of money you have spend on this game worth it? Do you think that the company who published the game deserve your money?
you look like Jon, do you have 8 kids?
LOL i knew someone would say it.
assholes are the ones who buy M$ products..
you should have some serious problems to buy shit you know it works bad and try to drain you every single cent you have!
No, the assholes are the ones who developed a console that was so easy to mod.
How much PS3 modding is going on, eh?
Either way, this is just another reason to not buy an Xbox 360.
PS3 isn't getting much modder attention because of the relative rarity of BR burners capable of out-of-spec recording and the significantly higher costs of the recording hardware and associated media compared to DVD.
@fatimmortal Don't be quick to judge people from your high horse. People who illegally copy software may not be the most law abiding citizens but I'm sure as hell you have no idea how things look like from their perspective.
The word "asshole" assumes self-centric egoism that disregards the position of other people - in other words, arrogance.
have my baby! :3
I have no idea how things look like from their perspective?
Hell, I was a pirate too. Oh wait, I'm still a pirate.
I know what it's like to not be able to play the games I like.
It was only up until I got myself a job, instead of spending my free time at home doing nothing.
Hehe, we keep coming back. They won't win...
assholes= microsoft
Whats the point of RROD box now?... the best feature was that you can "demo test" games...
Sigh... should have gotten a PS3...
Yeah, this way those people with banned consoles will be forced to buy a new one. M$ knows that they won't be able to beat the PS3's momentum now that more people are buying PS3 than 360 so they choose to make older consumers buy more of their shitty conosle.
Typical M$
pS 3 wins again , take this fag-box fanboys
People who still buy 360's are idiots. Breaks down easily and after warranty you are forced to buy a new one because if it breaks you will be banned if you try to fix it yourself.
Seriously 360 community is filled with trailer trash idiots.
All terriers are dogs.
Does that mean all dogs are terriers?
To a ceratain degree, yes it does, it's called genetics ;P
You should have bought a PS3. No monthly fee for the PS network, no mods, plays blu-ray, it just does everything.
You should have known Microsoft better by now!
This is pretty much why after getting a 360, I returned it a few days later...oh that and because the label on a case IZ LIEZ. Ninja Gaiden II and Halo 3 were NOT 720p T_T
Yeah, they are.... all XBox360 games are 720p, there is no choice in the matter there.
They output at 720p but they can be rendered as low as 420p and upscaled, the ps3 does this too.
Halo 3 was 640p and Ninja Gaiden II was 585p, there was no choice in the matter there. Aside from returning the games....
I love how Microsoft thinks that it's worth buying an Xbox 360 without pirating on it.
Amen to that.
I second that motion
I will only say this:
XD
agree i am only going to a xbox 360 over ps3 is becuz u dont need to pay for game.(£40 a game is outrage)
40 pounds? I'll raise you $120 AU, being the standard price for new PS3 games. As opposed to $100 AU for a new 360 game...
stop being poor guys, its not that hard
Depends, you know, in some countries is like playing hard mode. In others is like playing in lunatic.
windows games are even cheaper in the u and k. example dragon age:
ps3 - 38£
360 - 35£
pc - 25£
very similar for most other titles.
i guess they have learned the lession. a cheaper price makes you less eager to copy the game...
Microsoft lose money on every 360. They don't want you to buy one if you're not going to buy any games.
Wrong. They are not getting any money for sold copies. They gain most of their money from DLC, licensing and x-box live.
So long as you are buying stuff on live, they are not loosing money.
They have made money on every console for the last couple of years and they gain license money for every game sold for the console - hence why they crow about the attach rate. You cant just make a 360 or ps3 game and sell it you have to pay MS and sony for the privilege of selling it on their console. They make money from every live gold account and as you said DLC
which means after losing that advantage... its actually helping PS3 grow? both cant play pirated games, so level standing... what would you get? legal xbox tales of ***? or ps3 tales of ***?
What? The 360 plays pirated games just fine, even after it's banned from live. You'll just have to play the game from the disc, or not be an idiot and stay away from live once you've modded your console.
Also, I'd take the 360 version, since I don't know japanese well enough to play the game in japanese without subtitles.
Well, I see it differently. It's worth buying the console and buying my games so I don't have shit like this happening.
But, if you have to buy all original games, bette go for the PS3. Dah!
Why would they do that? it will just cause more and more people turning into ps3 fan...so stupid...I think Microsoft should just stop making game if this continues.
I think it's a pretty smart move. Banning so many consoles right before the holiday season (and right before the release of Modern Warfare 2) will boost their console sales a lot.
for the PS3
Not really. If I cannot afford to buy official games for XboX then that would be even more true for PS3.
I would love to buy the originals if only:
1) the wages in my country would not be exactly 9 times lesser for every kind of job compared to the developed states;
2) the prices of consoles and games would not be up to 2 times the price you get them for in US due to shipping restrictions and import taxes (I'm living in Eastern Europe >_> )
ya, which will means your on the losing end either way, but what about the ppl with the extra money but just wana save on pirated games so they can use their money to do other things? if given the choice of legal 360 or legal ps3, who you think will win out?
I don't pay for extra shit, cuz I buy them off Steam.
Gotta love legal HDD installs.
Are there really that many masochists in the world?
If I got fucked over by a company, I'd not be eager to buy anything from them.
I'd be eager to figure out how to fuck them back.
agreed
You fucked them in the first place dude.
Agreed. Anon 20:25 is a f**king idiot! I was like dying laughing over here when it said that XD.
Anon 20:25 been raping xbox 360 for 5 years, you got what was coming to you.
Ah, but here's the thing.
You get console banned, and you have hundreds of dollars in Xbox 360 games, what are you going to do?
Especially if you're someone who spends all their time on XBL?
Most people would suck it up, and buy a new console.
It's nice how Microsoft can drive up console sales without actually doing anything to make the console better. If anything, the exact opposite.
The console sales wouldn't be "driven up" if people hadn't modified their consoles in the first place. Plus every 360 sold is a loss of money for them not a gain, they make money off of software not hardware. If they could just disable the ability to use your mods they would do that instead. Trust me.
Hi, I'm Anon 20:25.
To Anon 21:32 and 22:16: It's amazing.
You've assumed:
(a) I own an xbox360 (I never have);
(b) I've modded my non-existant xbox360 (I haven't);
(c) I've pirated games for my non-existant, modded xbox360 (I haven't);
(d) I've signed up for XBL to use my non-existant, modded xbox360's presumbaly-pirated games on (I haven't); and
(e) I've had my non-existant, modded xbox360 banned via my non-existant XBL account (I haven't).
Have you any more inaccurate assumptions you'd like to make?
(a) you do
(b) you did
(c) you did
(d) you did
(e) you had
Prove me wrong!
Uh, if someone is pirating games, they're not exactly fans. Losers that steal their games aren't going to turn to the PS3, where piracy is impossible.
So you're saying that you buy all your software, movies and mp3s?
What a saint you are.
Really, I wouldn't say that people who pirate games on the X-Box are anti-Microsoft.
I, for example, own a pirated copy of Photoshop. I love photoshop. But I simply can't afford it. That's the facts.
I wouldn't say that I'm a "Loser" for pirating it either.
Well, I buy my games.
But everything else....you guessed it.
I'm a loser, there.
At least I'm not a loser with a semi bricked console.
@anon 20:53 damn you are right photoshop... its meaningful that its actually pirated i mean in my country your going to dish out 56Kphp just for a piece of software.... JUST FREAKIN ONE! what about illustrator and the rest.... and im happy about it... yeah pirate works in many ways as for xbox yes i firmly approve that if they want something else that having people buy multiple consoles (one per region) i guess this is a waste of resource again... mother nature is at best the greatest threat to all and windows does not care about that.. talk about political justice..
No, but you're a loser with an Xbox 360. Which is only mildly better.
When I said, I buy my games, I meant off Steam. Meaning, I play games on my PC.
Actually, I'm just another PC fag trolling SanCom.
Feed me, pl0x. :D
Fatimmortal - Anyone who is a PC gamer (like you and me) would have already realized that Steam isn't available on the 360. I guess they didn't read far enough to know and just made a blind accusation.
Welcome to the Internet. Grab a trench.
I really don't mind if people wannna accuse me of anything, especially on the internet. Only ourselves know what we did and didn't do. God too, if you're religious.
I was religious, till I found out that Mohammed screwed an 8 year old.
No, they are fans, they are generally just broke. Surely even a pirate buys one or two games at some point... that is some sort of contribution. Of course after this I'm sure they never will again though.
its kinda been proven with music and most likely is proven with games that those who pirate games also buy alot more than the average consumer of games
I know a few video game pirates, and not a damn one actually puts any money into the industry except on games they can't pirate.
"Uh, if someone is [sharing] games, they're not exactly fans. Losers that [copy] their games aren't going to turn to the PS3, where [sharing] is impossible."
Fixed. Now try to defend what you just said.
Also, ever hear of 'try before you buy'? Prove that sharing or other violations of Copyright Monopoly is /always/ harmful.
Thats the reason that cinemas, comics, music and games is so much regurgitated crap, because the moment someone does something new and inventive, all the tosspot hackers pirate it and, unless its a monolithic entity like EA, get basically destroyed due to the loss of sales. And the monoliths continue on spouting out the next Madden, Final Fantasy or Half, because its what the masses will convince mummy and daddy to buy them.
Try before you buy? Try renting or playing a demo. And sharing a game is hard. Geez, I must have missed the bit where console games have unique codes that allow them to only be played on one console. Maybe you could... *gasp* Lend them your copy. Altho... that would mean you wouldn't be able to play it?! And that would involve trusting your friends to give it back!
And if you're too poor to buy legit copies, then you obviously shouldn't be buying a console in the first place. You could just use a brick for a doorstop instead.
Scathing response aside, where is this 'PS3 is unpiratable' stream coming from, when I've seen plenty of PS3 ISOs floating around?
Most fiction sucked before digital file sharing, and most fiction still sucks. What does this have to do with MS damaging your personal property?
Renting? I don't know if a product is even worth 5 dollars (or whatever rentals cost these days) until after I tried it. Hell, many aren't worth my bandwidth. Also, I typically use PC, a world where renting basically doesn't exist. And let me say this: games that I cannot test the full version of, I rarely buy. I've bought a great deal of games and other fictional works that I would have never considered buying were it not for file sharing. In other words, file sharing increases my chances of buying a product.
Moreover, crap works of fiction by monolithic companies are actually MORE damaged by file sharing than small developers. In fact, some indy films and indy music artists have used torrents as free advertising (either officially or via unofficial intentional leaks).
And you still haven't explained why The State needs to uphold a Monopoly against the will of The People. Lets face it, if people don't think your product is worth the money you are charging, that's your real problem.
Again, and again I hear this failed argument "poor people don't deserve to play our games".
What you are basically claiming is that people should be denied a form of entertainment, that incurs no cost to anyone, just because some fat corporate asshole has decided they don't care about selling their product to that person for a reasonable price.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but there is nothing more egoistic than denying someone anything (weather it's entertainment or necessity), just because you can (and loose next to nothing in the process). If you are fine with being more egoistic than a god damn satanist (I swear this wasn't intended as a pun), then I have no argument against you. If you however think of yourself as "help the poor 3rd world children" kind of person, then you are a true hypocrite. Oh yeah, 3rd world children need to have fun too. Instead, they are slaving away at some factory to support your way of life. All the benefits of being a slaver and you don't even have to feel bad about it, what a great deal, isn't it?
Sorry about getting sidetracked. Anyway, my point is this. Even people in poor countries can save up enough money to buy a $300 X-Box. It takes months, but it's not impossible. However, as you may realize, anyone who can't cough up $300 in a month is probably not able to keep up with the ridiculously expensive games on the market. These people may or may not buy some games, but they are definitely not the cheap bustards like your friends who refuse to buy their games just because they can.
As for lending/renting, the video game industry has been trying hard to stamp out this practice for ages. Install limitations and DLC available only on first purchase are just tips of the iceberg. If they could, they would gladly lock each disk to a unique console.
p.s. Hackers don't "pirate" anything. Anyone with enough skills to be called a hacker is probably getting 10x the size of your paycheck.
kinda miss the good old days where we bought many genesis games and lended it to other people.
I mean i had 32 of my own games,but i played over 200 of them becouse of friends and cousin and we also had a legal renting store close by.
Today people could still lend games to eachother,but the game industry doesn't want that,since that means less money for them,possibilities of getting a crack and not buy the game.
I think lending games to others should still be allowed.
Since it never was so moraly wrong.
The difference between pirating and trading/lending a game is this:
Only one copy is being used. Theoretically, either the game is returned to the original owner and the borrower has to buy their own copy if they want to continue playing.
I stand 100% behind 'if you can't pay, you shouldn't play'. There are a wealth of people behind that game you're playing--don't try and pretend that not paying for it is harmless.
What infuriates me about pirates is not that people pirate--I'm guilty of it to. It's those who try to defend it as a matter of personal freedom and right, not privilege, to have these things they can't pay for. Own up to what you're doing, if you're going to do it. Don't tell me 'it's about personal freedom', 'I only do it because I can't pay', or any such guff.
Don't get mad just 'cuz you got caught, trying to justify something that violates their EULA. Own up to it.
Consider this though.
Is piracy any better than buying used?
Say X game comes out and Consumer doesn't feel like paying $60 for it so he sits around and waits till Gamestop has a used copy for $40.
Now, say X game comes out and Pirate doesn't feel like paying $60 for it either and torrents it.
Both scenarios neither the developer isn't getting any money out of it. The only real difference is Gamestop isn't getting any money either. So in the end, if the game is something the Consumer was going to buy used anyway, is piracy really any worse than buying it used?
Yes. Piracy is still worse, because $40 is still $40.
In your little analogy, you forgot one point. In order for that used $40 game to end up on the shelf to begin with, -somebody- had to spend the $60 on it.
Then they traded it in. And you paid $40 for it. Now that $60 game now has racked up $100.
As for me, since I don't have a lot of expendible cash to throw a my games, I've managed in such a way as to keep my games revolving enough to get the ones I want. I'll go into a local Gamestop and maybe buy six $20-$40 used games in a given space of time. I'll play them through until I'm done with them. Then when that one big game comes in that I'm -willing- to spend the $60 on, I'll bring all those used games I had and trade them in toward that game I want and I manage to get my game for $20 or less.
There's always a -legal- way around getting the game you want when you don't have that much money to work with, you just have to use your brain a little, have a good grasp of basic math, and be willing to hold down a job that pays a little.
@19:50
So what about us pirates that buy the game, return it/trade it in, and then go download a copy? How have we stolen from the companies?
I still buy games. Hell, most of the games I pirate, I've bought CE of them. So I spent MORE than many other legit gamers. But because I modded my 360 so I can play foreign games, I'm a villain?
MS has the right to ban us, because we did break our "agreement" with them by modding the systems. But they should seriously take a look at why so many people are willing to take that risk and mod their systems. It's not basement dwelling nefarious types, as they'd have us think so often. It's average, everyday people, that are the true faces of the modding community.
Mabye they're learning from the psp3000 and pspGo strategy
Hey look, they've made them pretty much hax proof, lost a lotta sales! Sounds like money in that letz du itt yaa.
Lol, I know its a pretty shallow depiction but hey
Wow, that's brutal.
They decided to add injury to insult.
It's like an RRoD, nothing new to a 360 owner.
This may constitute a crime in some countries. Remote sabotage of a digital device.
not if it was included in the EULA.
EULA's are not legally enforceable in all countries.
Sorry, you can't sign away your right to, say, not randomly be stabbed in the face by your plumper. It would still be murder, regardless of what the EULA says.
how about informed euthanasia? if you sign an informed consent to allow your physician to kill you? then it wouldn't be murder. otherwise, it is.
If you brought this up in court, Microsoft would countersue you for all the games you pirated. Better to take the assraping then go to jail.
mix, informed euthanasia is illegal in quite a few countries.
Comparing this to euthanasia is a bit much, isn't it?
well, it is a bit much i guess. anyway, the point is when you buy an xbox / sign in to xbox live, then you automatically agreed to the EULA, which is a contract between you and MS. by breaking that contract (modding your xbox), MS have a right to give penalty as included in the EULA. legally, they are right and you are wrong.
I'm taking Contracts right now, and in the U.S. it's just not that simple. Since the two parties are at unequal bargaining positions the court might get fancy and use something like the "consumer expectation" test (which would take me all day to explain).
good more switch to ps3...
PS3: to be invaded by pirates soon
awesome. i think.
why would you pirate games on a system where the dvd itself cost as much as the game to burn when you can just buy the real thing?
Wow, you must live in some shitty country if a bluray disc costs that much. Still, to me it seems more natural that any modchip for the PS3 will be able to play disc images directly from the harddrive, like the original xbox could when modded.
What's with the hate?
So you can't install games on your HD when you get caught pirating your xbox. This feature isn't even a year old yet. How come people think there's some kind of law that entitles you to this feature when you hack your xbox.
What entitles Microsoft to destroy my device? I should be allowed to do what I want with MY hardware. Microsoft has no business breaking it!
Um, because you bought it from them...to steal from them. Do you not see the hypocrisy in that?
Stealing would require depriving someone of something. We aren't talking about people who walk out of Best Buys with a game they didn't buy (and thus, Best Buy no longer has). We're talking about copying, replicating. Actually, we aren't even talking about that, we're talking about trying to take ownership of your own console. This is a grave threat to personal freedom.
personal freedom? I'm all for freedom but what you are talking about is anarchy. People just do as they please no matter who it harms. Piracy harms everyone who buys games. You steal from a company and they either become unable to produce more games (if enough people do it) or they just roll the cost right into the legitimate consumers. ownership of a console doesn't legitimize thievery anymore than ownership of a crowbar makes it ok to be a burglar, or ownership of a gun makes it ok to be a murderer.
Huh...? o_O
Pirating game IS stealing.
Whoever says there is a difference between the two are just pirates who are trying to justify their own actions.
The punishment for stealing was(or still is, in some part of the world today) that the thief gets his hands chopped off, you people are lucky M$ didn't rig your controllers to blow up/your hands off when you try to play your pirated games...
I suppose you feel like you have been robbed every time you've had your photo taken as well.
If it's taken without my permission? Yes.
Dude yeah without my permission it's a crime in quite a few countries.
Anon 20:46 , You're a F***ing idiot.
Stop trying to justify pirating by saying you can do what you want with your console. Truth is, you can't. You agreed to the terms when you bought the console and subscribed for Xbox live. Don't bring up the "personal freedom" argument when you probably just clicked accept before reading anything.
And, it doesn't matter if an item can be replicated or shared. By copying a game you would've otherwise paid for, you're stealing sales from a company. This is why small companies go under.
If you're going to pirate, go ahead, just don't BS yourself and us with fake excuses.
They're not "breaking" your 360, it still works perfectly fine. HD installs were added by Microsoft with an update, so they're quite entitled to take them away.
The solution is simple, never use Xbox Live. They can't ban your console if you don't connect it to them, can they?
No they can't, but I wouldn't be surprised if future games will "require" an update that isn't on the disc anymore.
They haven't broken your device. Be happy it still plays games, there's no reason for it to play games at all once you've modified it. You would've had a case if you hadn't touched the thing.
Well technically I suppose a case could be made for conversion (a tort where basically someone jacked or destroyed your personal property). I don't think anyone consented to having their system essentially destroyed.
Is MY xbox, I pay for it. I must be able to do wathever I want with it.
M$ intruding in my Xbox and disabling things... is SO wrong.
Just another chapter in the technological war between companies who want to control their products after they've been sold, and people who want to what THEY want with those products.
I wonder if anybody's had their UN-modded xbox360 broken by MS' banning techniques, and whether they've sued MS for it.
It's not just the cost of the hardware that would be 'lost', it's all the time the users spent earning achievements, etc. - stuff that would NOT be recovered if MS simply sent them a fresh xbox360.
"and people who want to what THEY want with those products." want to what the what wanting what?
Correction: "want to do what THEY [example: the xbox360 purchaser] want to do with their [purchased] products."
I wonder if anybody's had their UN-modded xbox360 broken by MS
I've seen it on their support forums. You know what they were told?
"Console bans are permanent."
Microsoft won't tell you why you were console banned either. They have free reign to ban whomever they like, without having to give explanation.
It's in the EULA after all.
I'm pretty sure everyone who claims they have an unmodded 360 that was banned are either lying, or they bought their 360 second hand and didn't realise.
Actually, the bans aren't permanent. They can check again, but if they find that the console is "altered" you'll get your xbox live gamertag banned also.
Digital terrorism is what this is called. Mass destruction of consumer devices. Somebody call the FBI!!!!
..This sucks!........
My 360 have been banned since the first ban wave and well my forza 3 install works just fine.
well, wave 2 is on it's way
Eh? It has been banned since spring 2007.
You're lucky you got banned early, because now you won't be installing the new xbox live update with the new HD ban. I got banned by the hd ban and it sucks but whatever I have a sleeve of 50 games gg
This is Madness!!...Or suicide.
No, this is "BANNING"!
*kicks Anon 20:35 into Red Rathole Of Death
This is what you call real cyber-terrorism.
FBI should ban Microsoft.
We can all have some laughs when (if) that happens.
But speaking a bit more seriously, I think what MS is doing is in fact making some XBox360 owners unhappy while at the same time scaring off potential buyers. I mean if someone who was interested in buying an XBox360 found out that MS was having a ban wave, that person would be too scared of buying a console that they may get banned on. Lets also not forget the RRoD is also very well known. Good thing MS doesn't make computers. What a disaster that would be.
good thing they don't make an OS that everyone uses... oh wait
No problem, FORMAT can save the day!
The RRoD already scare off potential buyer, with this added to the failure that is Microsoft entertaining system, Xbox is total shit.
The more you try to protect something, the worse the problem become. There is other option and solution if they took more time planning it out.
I don't think a normal buyer would be scared, I think one's that plan to download a game off a torrent site and mod the 360 to play it would. I also think that's kinda the whole point :P
Woh, woh, woh, hold on a second. I know it's perfectly legal to not let people the privilege of using xbox LIVE, and that's one thing, but going into peoples' personal property and not letting them install legally owned products? Who owns your xbox 360, you or MS? Did you go to the store and buy it? Should we allow this?
No, this is illegal. This is a suspension of the basic Right of First Sale. And without even so much as a legal case. Just because you were accused. We're just going to trust MS as our own personal 'big brother'? Seriously?
And this is why I will never give microsoft anymore of my money. I bought Windows XP Pro, and I like to format my machine offen due to windows being a piece of crap. So a little while ago they disabled my copy saying it had be activated to many times, and wanted me to buy another.
Had I known they would disable my copy I wouldn't have formatted as many times. And that was the last time I paid for a microsoft product.
I wanted to buy a 360 but I think this pretty much settles things, so microsoft makes money from the consoles and then disables a bunch of features? Pirate or not this isn't right.
This. The whole "accused therefore you are guilty" law that the companies are starting to create is making me sick. The new internet copyright bill that's being written right now that will deprive you of internet service if you are simply accused, not proven guilty, up to 3 times is going by a similar model.
It is also one thing to deny someone of a service that they are providing, but to make a hardware that has been fully paid for unusable is certainly questionable.
I have a modded PSP that use to play my PSX collection that I do not wish to pay for again or wait until it is released on the PSN. If Sony were to go the same route, they would make my memory stick slot useless and take away the right for me to play the hardware(PSP) and the games that I legally own. There is something wrong with that. Letting companies have the control over what THEY want us to have is NEVER a good idea.
I mean, I can't say that the pirates didn't deserve it. However, as the old saying goes, give the big corporations an inch and they WILL take a mile.
You do need to actually read the Agreement that comes with your Xbox.
I'm not too sure about the 360, since I don't actually own one, but I do remember the Xbox had a clause that stated you don't actually own the Xbox. Literally.
Like, its on indefinite loan to you, and can be reclaimed at any time if you break any of the rules in the agreement.
this is why i always read the fine print.
Precisely. Fine print is always the first thing I look for and read through, even before the main body of text.
"but I do remember the Xbox had a clause that stated you don't actually own the Xbox. Literally."
I remember some lawsuit where the judge thought otherwise.
Many countries don't permit shrink-wrapped EULAs, which is what a license like this would be an instance of.
Rather, the sale of goods (i.e. the consumer purchasing the console) takes precedence, and every physical item inside the box and the box itself becomes exclusive property of the consumer when the purchas transaction has been completed.
There is no "this product is not sold but licensed" in the EU.
thanks god EU people have some brain..
22:14 Anon
How many EU Xbox owners have gotten half-bricked already though?
I somehow doubt Microsoft isn't doing the same thing to them.
This is why the only EULA I ever pay attention to is Caveat Emptor..... "Let the Buyer Beware".
The EU doesn't like M$ anyway.. have sued them several times, with incredibly high fines to be paid.
And since when is it microsofts responsibility to control what you do with the stuff you claim to be your property? If you install stuff on it that makes certain features stop working, isn't that YOUR fault?
The exclusives are pretty good. im@s, dream club, deathsmiles and now the perfect bayonetta.
'cept you'll need a Japanese XBOX to play the ero-games
and since you can't pirate, that will be a heavy burden on your wallet due to importing
JTAG hack and voilà:
Change to japanese 360 with software.
Isn't this illegal??? Hack & brake someone's "property"...
Is it LEGAL for M$ to peek & keep track of what & how someone uses his consoles (or PC), & then silently brake it if they don't like how he use it?
I think this is consider invasion of privacy & remote sabotage of digital device.
they've been doing it to windows since long ago. i'm surprised no one seen this coming.
Ah, but they usually don't do it ON PURPOSE in Windows.
That's the difference, and really...... I've never had MICROSOFT break my computer.... I've had some asshole device manufacturers stop SUPPORTING newer version of Windows and 'break' my system.
Microsoft are really trying to multi-task here
they want people to re-buy their consoles, even after they bought one and spent the $100 or so to mod their freaking system
sure their getting rid of pirates, but they might be pissing off a lot of 'fans' of the system who loved to pirate their games
and I really doubt (unless they're morons) that they'll buy the system again
though RRoD has pretty much been an idiot magnet for years... >.>
Well they are also keeping potential buyers at bay scaring them with the ban wave not to mention everyone knows about the RRoD. But this apparently is how MS is profiting since this is not the first time.
Sell banned console for 100€ on ebay, add 50€ from your own money -> Buy a brand new console.
Oh yeah and whoever pays 100$ for softmod is retarded. I can do it within 5 minutes...it's foolproof.
that's also illegal
and your a dick, selling someone broken shit... just like Microsoft
22:03 Anon
Never buy an Xbox 360 used from Gamestop then...
Especially now that the used market is likely flooded with half-bricked and XBL banned consoles.
You didn't pay Microsoft $100 for that mod, why should they care?
You just said it. 'They might be pissing off a lot of 'fans' of the system who loved to pirate their games.'
Pretty sure MS doesn't care if a pirate rebuys if they want to continue pirating. I know that if I were a console and game producer *I* wouldn't want people doing that.
Well, the obvious solution is to hack it AGAIN to undo the HDD lockout, and screw XBox Live.
I seriously wonder if that is possible.
Everything is possible, when China is involve.
This
Hackers always one up the big companies. They could spend a million dollars on copyright protection, and have a couple guys on the internet work out how to break it for release day.
PS3?
People have had success using KeyVault to unban a banned Xbox 360 from Live, but that requires an unbanned Key and a way to change the Key(Infectus chip). It's just easier and cheaper to get a new one.
I know this is not the case for most modded consoles, but there other reasons to mod a console other than game piracy. There are many aspiring game designers out there who rely heavily on the home-brew scene for recognition and there are many home-brew apps that add to the functionality of the console.
I don't own a 360 and have no plans to own one in the foreseeable future, largely in part to MS's shady tactics.
I don't know if this is possible on the xbox 360, but I know on previous consoles, people modded them to stop region lock-out.
This is an interesting turn of events.
I thought the initials bans ain't gonna hurt much off M$, if they're gonna get hurt at all. This though...
However, I decline to make a statement as if it's obvious. Though, $ony will most likely benefit from this in one way or another, EXCEPT if $ony also follows suit. PLOT TWIST!
M. Night Shymalan would be proud
Thats one good summary for a banned 360 Artefact. :3
I might as well go for the original Ver. then.....Just have to fork out a little more money.
Everything that is said in the summary is legal if you look at the terms of use moding and such will break it. You agree to the terms when you make your xbox live account and all microsoft is doing is making the console just a console like how the playstation 2 and every other system was before online. And some might say they can't snoop into my system every company or takes nonpersonal data especially if you are connecting to that companies servers.
This sux big time...
If i buy a product, its mine. I should be allowed to do whatever i like with it. Burn it, smash it or mod it.
You CAN do anything you want with your Xbox, including burning, smashing, or modding it.
What you can't do is pirate games. Microsoft is smarter than you are.
Mod-ers done been pwned. Suck it up and get over it.
If you are a thief, admit you are a thief, and stop whining. You got away without paying for games and thought you were a badass, now you are fucked.
There is no profound legal or philosophical issue here. Microsoft and game companies want to make a huge profit and don't want you to avoid paying for content, and they have figured out how to do it for now. Ultimately it boils down this; THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH.
Piratism =/= theft.
that's the incorrect sign for 'does not equal'
Either way, he's right.
Pirating isn't theft. It's a misnomer to say they're synonyms.
Piracy is copyright infringement, which also isn't theft.
You aren't taking something from someone when you copy software. It's making a copy, not stealing the original.
The fact that so many people seem to think they're the exact same thing just goes to show how successful the RIAA and MPAA were in their anti-piracy campaigns.
Also like to add that if this were true, then someone who burns a copy of a video game would be the same as someone who breaks into a video game store and takes a copy.
More then a bit ridiculous, don't you think?
No. I don't think. I think that pirates should be held accountable for their actions in the same way another thief would.
Agreed with Kyon.
Disagreed with Kyon.
"No. I don't think." - And that's your problem, mate.
You can do whatever you want, but you can't expect it to function the same way afterwards.
thats why you get a ps3
LOL, you go on Xbox Live with your hacked console and you get banned? Really? No one saw that coming? It's not fucking rocket science people, you hack your x360, you're taking your chances going online. Stop being a bunch of motherfucking whiny bitches, they'll have a workaround in a day or two and it'll be fine. Unless you're one of those retards who paid someone you saw in the classified ads to do it for you, in which case you probably are fucked unless you pay them again.
Please RTFA.
This isn't about people being banned from LIVE. This is about MS going into the personal property of others and messing with one's own digital rights. This is, or should be in any country that respects the First Sale Doctrine, illegal.
The First Sale Doctrine says you can resell a copyrighted work without violating copyright yourself. Not sure what disabling HD installs has to do with this.
You mong. The first sale doctrine means that after you purchase the console, it's your property. Likewise with e.g. CDs: you bought it, it's yours. Data on the CD and software on the hard disk may well be licensed, but effectively damaging the system is illegal illegal illegal regardless of licensing chicanery.
No reasonable person would say that the hardware of the console is "licensed" to the user in exchange for him purchasing the very physical, very real xbox 360 flashy cardboard package from a video game store.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_sale_doctrine
Also, the 360 did not originally support hard drive installs. They were added in an update, so I don't really see how MS are "damaging" the system by taking it away. The system will still work as well as it did out of the box.
That's not at all what first sale doctrine is, look it up.
I don't know what kind of Authoritarian country you come from, but in my country the First Sale Doctrine means when I buy something, it is mine.
I can resell it, eat it, burn it (provided that's legal in my area), or modify it. Now there's some bullshit about the DMCA and similar laws that say you don't have rights to modify your own products do to the over-reaching, ever-extending arm called Copyright Monopoly, but that is blatantly unconstitutional in my country (the United States of America).
For those that doubt me, check out the Copyright Clause. Note the part about LIMITED TERMS (read: not extendable every time mickey mouse is set to become Free, in other words the unlimited terms we currently have). Also note it says "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts". If copyright monopoly and patent monopoly is no longer promoting the arts and useful sciences, and is instead hindering them, as it is today, then copyright monopoly and patent monopoly are unconstitutional.
Did you even bother reading the wikipedia article I linked to? First Sale Doctrine in the US means that you can resell a copyrighted product without worrying about violating copyright. That's it. It also specifically says you cannot make extra copies of the copyrighted material, which is definitely not "it's mine to do whatever I like with" as you claim.
You fail at law. Try harder.
Wrong. The fact is that the First Sale Doctrine, as well as other laws, DOES say that you can make extra copies of the copyrighted material in order to 'protect your investment'.
I work as a lawyer's assistant so I frigging well know law, and the former anonymous is RIGHT ON THE MONEY.
I guess you'd better make a copy of your 360 in case MS disables the HD installs then. Oh wait, you mean "making copies of copyrighted material" actually has nothing whatsoever to do with being able to modify your console or not? Fancy that.
I work as a Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court so I totally know what I'm talking about here.
A Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court would have better things to do than posting here. Get lost loser, don't try to act higher than you actually are. Sit down kid.
"You fail at law"
So says the guy quoting wikipedia for law.
I saw a guy in one of my first year law courses get utterly blasted by a professor for quoting wikipedia.
This isn't a first year law course now is it? Wikipedia might not be the best cite, but it's certainly a lot more credible than just saying "the law is like this because I say so" and not citing anything at all. And if the other person refuses to cite anything, why bother going to any more trouble than is necessary?
And it should be pretty obvious that I was being sarcastic with the chief justice comment, my point is that anyone on the internet can claim to be anyone. It doesn't do shit for your argument.
LONG LIVE THE PIRATES!
watch their sales drop?
Ooh microsoft have stepped in a load of shit here.
In most countries disabling the actual console itself is an act of criminal vandalism. Most all of Europe swings this way.
Microsoft are going to be in a super painful world of hurt (with extra suffering) for intentionally breaking goods that consumers have bought. Whether said goods were modified after the sale makes absolutely no difference.
Yep, you hit the nail right on the head. It doesn't matter that the consoles were modified so that they COULD have played pirated games.... it only matters that Microsoft didn't prove, in any way, that people definitely WERE playing pirated games, which you have to do before you can 'damage' or take any property that someone has.
You have to prove that they have actually COMMITTED A CRIME, and Microsoft didn't do this.... they just assumed "Everyone with a modified console is a pirate! NYAH!"
They are going to get slammed for it, I am sure, in any country INCLUDING the United States, if anyone gets off their duffs and challenges this in court.
Thank you, Internet Lawyer. Something tells me that Microsoft's lawyers *probably* know more than you about what the company is and isn't allowed to do.
i tried to search for it on google - could anyone explain to me or link me some description of how the hdd lock actually works ? do they edit the firmware remotely ?
Lol how people think MS is not allowed to alter THEIR software to render YOUR hardware useless. It's just like Sonys efforts against piracy on the PSP (Hey guys they took away my possibility to play isos on my 1.50 fw..RAGERAGERAGE).
Funfact: Your HDD is still working...on other consoles, so it's not broken. If you don't want "updates" how i call the ban-parameters, do not visit Live. MS can do whatever they want, if you want to use Live or if you want to play new games (which often require system updates). If you take that into consideration, the hardware is yours, but neither is the software nor the guarantee to be able to use MS services or even games.
No cyber terrorism here, just a bunch of butthurt "i want everything now and forever" fags and the obligatory Sonyfan bunch.
Sorry, but you are wrong. The fact is that yes, Microsoft CAN push updates, but they are NOT supposed to be 'breaking' someone's system and not allowing someone to install games to their systems hard drive is the EPITOME of 'breakage' and in most countries around the world is illegal.
So the original 360 was illegal, since it couldn't install games to the harddrive?
Microsoft is actually kinda losing money here. Two friends of mine were planning to buy an Xbox and later on mod it, but now Ms won't even get the money from purchased consoles. If two people from only my peers were planning it, imagine how many were planning the same around the world..
Wrong. MS/Sony don't make profit on the consoles, only on the game licenses.
What, so they don't get the money from the products their very company has directly made? Just as directly as DVD players, at least. Just wondering.
The 360, as with most consoles, costs MS more to make than what they sell it for. They make the money back on games.
However, they've already made those consoles. If they sit on store shelves rather then making sales, they lose even more money.
It's the difference between making a product and not selling it and making a product while selling for less-then-cost.
Don't taken too lightly MS's ability of making profit. Why doing business that involve a lot of money, one wrong move and you may doomed. And MS doesn't seem to be doomed anytime soon.
Hacking and anti_hacking's war is alway fun to watch btw. Try your best then, both MS and the hackers, entertain me more with your burning passion and desire for crushing each other!
Okay, so how many games do I have to buy before MS covers their costs? I suspect that they aren't losing very much money, if any, per unit. The more likely scenario is that MS sells the XBox at a price that covers their actual costs but doesn't allow for any profit.
M$ loses a bit of money on the Arcade and break even with the Elite. The real money makers are XBL subscriptions, M$ Marketplace, game licenses and SDK.
"it might have been kinder just to “brick” the consoles and render them entirely inoperative…"
This.
Imagine if Sony attempted to brick hacked psp's o.O
LOL they did.
Original or iso (not sure here) FF Dissidia could delete your homebrew folder and/or brick the whole PSP if you got a custom firmware.
Worked without a hitch on 5.00 M33-6. Was planning to get the original but I did not like the game one bit after play testing.
Nintendo is already bricking hacked Wiis as of System Menu 4.2 :P
(and some non-hacked Wiis)
I think no one cares, since Wii games are like $40, while 360 ones go over $60
unless more pirates just happen to own a 360
Well that brick is accidental due to their buggy boot2 writing code and not done on purpose.
System Update 4.2 is just a failed attempt at getting rid of homebrew(especially BootMii).
Isn't one of the reasons the PS3 is still not running pirated games because the thing bricks itself almost as soon as you remove the chassis?
I think people just haven't been able to crack it yet.
This article is proof that personal property and the concept of "intellectual property" can never co-exist. The concept of "Intellectual Property" (which should more accurately be called Intellectual Poverty, or Intellectual Monopoly Protectionism (IMP)) threatens personal freedom everywhere. If the IMP march is allowed to continue, how long before "thought crime" becomes a reality???
I'm pretty sure you can do whatever you like with a 360 as long as you don't connect to Live. If you connect to Live, you are voluntarily agreeing to play by Microsoft's rules.
Judges in the past have disagreed with you. Legalese and walls of TL;DR doesn't give the Corporations the right to, say, brick your console. I know Sony got in trouble for just that.
Moreover, this isn't about using LIVE. What if someone just wanted an update (and updated via disc)?
Again, it would be one thing if they denied you the privilege of going on LIVE, but this goes far beyond that, and infringes on your Digital Rights to your Personal Property.
If you update via disc the console will not become banned. You have to connect to live for that to happen. Also, the console isn't bricked, just loses some extra features that aren't necessary for it to play games.
YOU RRoD 360 BETA TESTERS FAGS SURE GOT TOLD.
let's see what happens to the 360 then
the right punishment for people who give money to microsoft. not a new fact that microsoft ppl are ....... (choose your preferred title)
hope they go bankrupt in the end, so the market will be free of their sh|tty products (sony too, of course).
Why isn't xbox360 region free? I mean Microsoft needs to get with the times...Half the people I know that mod, do it to play other region games. well the other half are idiots, if they log onto LIVE. Shit even Sony was wise enough to let all systems play any regions games.
There are many region free games on the 360. Ask the publishers who region lock the ones that aren't, it's their decision and not Microsoft's.
i had a ps2 (RIP) now, i bought a ot of pirated games... but once a relative traveled to USA, i gave her my savings and bought FFX, FFX-2, and Kingdow Hearts, maybe the games i most enjoy, not because i wante to play, i already finished them two times each, was beacause i really apreciated those games...
i'm also a south american.... not poor, no if you cthink on what i earn (i'm a student) + what my parents give me... i don't have enough money not even to buy a WII... thaat is worth Us$400 ($800.000pesos), and that is the cheapest.
xbox360 piece of shit anyway
Now, if only they could ban people who have modified controllers.
So let me get this straight.
As long as I disconnect my 360 from the internet, they can't do shit? Hmm....
If thats so, then I don't see a problem at all since I don't use Live at all.
Yes, as long as you don't plug in a network cable your console will remain unbanned.
Now XBOX 360 lost its ONLY selling point against the PS3...
well i guess they've sold enough for the past few years, maybe this was planned all along. (Sell as much console and grab as many users as possible by using the 'pirate-able' selling point against the better console PS3, then make it 'unpirate-able' when the sales slows down, now 360 users need to buy the games)
Was its only selling point the HDD harddrive installation or where is the connection to the article?
If you are talking about pirated games, they still work like a charm if you play offline
360 with 50 games 200€
PS3 with 50 games >3000€
that's a fucking lot and one hell of a selling point in my book...even if i get banned or RRoD'ed 10 times IT IS CHEAPER. That has nothing to do with blind fanboyism but simple math.
what sucks is that offline, you lose a lot of the experience the 360 offered
some games were MADE for online
so If you want those, you're gonna have to pay... or see if the PS3 has that game too (plus free online)
either way, it's all about the money
I'm more amused by the fact that they have the ability to lock down the entire console remotely. Did they already have this planned from the start? Anyone with the first wave of XBOX 360 that is still working wanna testify? Does the lock down work on the first batch of consoles released?
Modded my console over 3 years ago - play Xbox Live all the time; never been banned, never will.
Haha serve piracy right xD
Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Hope Microsoft is ready for a major cut in console sales.
I feel sorry for Xbox 360 users. But that was their fault anyway. So go buy a new Xbox or a PS3. XP
And this is why 360 sucked. Well, this is the nail for the coffin for those who pirate games. But this won't help it sell. PS2, NDS, Wii and PSP, despite the modding, game-pirating and ROMs, managed to sell. Sony and Nintendo somehow think it the above will help sell their consoles. And there are those *ahem Westernfags and Japanese* who are willing to pay for games, so they have no problem with that. Microsoft can't see it as an opportunity to sell their console.
Also, pirated games shouldn't be the console's concern, but the developers.
1. On a non-banned 360, turn on your console with a memory unit that does NOT contain your corrupted game profile.
2. Recover your XBL profile to a memory card on your non-banned console
3. Turn your non-banned console off.
4. Plug in your hard drive/memory card with your corrupted saves to your non-banned console.
5. Go to System settings -> Memory -> (your "corrupted" memory unit) -> Gamer Profiles and select your corrupted profile.
6. Select delete and make sure you select DELETE PROFILE ONLY. FAILURE TO DO SO WILL DELETE ALL OF YOUR SAVES
7. Turn your console off
8. Put it your memory unit with your "corrupt" saves
9. Also insert your memory unit with the gamertag you recovered from XBL earlier
10. System settings -> Memory -> (memory unit with recovered gamertag) -> Move -> Your gamertag
11. Move your gamertag to your Memory unit with your previously corrupt saves and you should be good to go.
o.o;; you guys already figured a way around this? Or is it just your game saves and profile being recovered?
Not a way around it, it's just saving your "corrupted" data, so you don't lose anything.
So do I need two memory units or one cause you make it sound like I need two?
So MS charge you to play online AND fuck up the console that you, the consumer, payed for?!
Fuck that, I'm sticking with Sony and Nintendo. MS can choke on a dick. They shouldn't be making consoles in the first place.
/salute Microsoft.
Keep sinking the ships of the pirates. They are PARASITES and are WORTHLESS to the gaming community. They don't buy games, they don't support the developers, which means they don't support the future of gaming.
GOOD RIDDANCE TO ALL OF YOU.
You're right my friend. But I play pirated games because I WANT gaming industry to fall apart. So maby games are released nowadays, not all of them are decent, but still they're killing too much of my time. And it just impossible for me not to play a good game when I can just download it for free. And there goes my time again. Those damn games better gone.
There are three types of people in this world:
1) The ones who blindly buy anything they think is good, regardless of whether or not it sucks later on.
2) The "try before you buy" people. These people download the product and buy it if they like it.
3) The people who wouldn't buy even if they had the money. They download because it's free, not so much because they like the product.
The (gaming) industry has its eyes on group #3 for obvious reasons. However, by disabling the systems/games for everyone who downloads, they ALSO hurt those who plan on buying the game after they had the chance to judge it after they downloaded it. Given that these people WOULD support the makers by buying the games if they liked it, wouldn't this mean that Microsoft is shooting itself in the foot with this kind of practice? Die-hard fans won't be enough to fully sustain the industry, so if this continues, MS will lose even MORE money on the XBox. Pretty sure this will eventually result in them discontinuing the console altogether if they can no longer make a profit from it. If that happens, it's the company's own damn fault for being too short-sighted and NOT that of the 'pirates' (who will surely end up being blamed anyway).
Ha! Artefact seems to be a MS cock sucker!
No, if you'd read his articles, you'd know he's a registered Sony cocksucker, pardon my language.
Yes, the pardon my language above is necessary. I don't like to swear unless I'm proving a point. No, unessecary swearing is Mysterious Voice's department, right?
Mysterious Voice: "I'm just not gonna take the bait, troll."
WTF NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO D:
IMO this reeks (of desperation). They, for the past several years haven't done anything this extreme to pirates. Now, quite suddenly, they go full retard? Seems (to me) that the PS3's recent surge of sales has prompted this behavior.
Basically M$ can no longer afford to lose (any) sales, and thus, will force pirates to buy official games, and new systems by rendering their old ones nearly useless.
* reak, not reek x_x
You had it spelled right the first time, BlaqCat. It's 'reek', not 'reak'.
Nearly useless? This isn't the PS3 we're talking about here, it's not really a problem running 360 games from the DVD without installing.
Mwahahahahaha, hahahahahahaha, MWAHAHAHAHAHA...I sooo much love my PC more now...
I guess this pretty much kills majority of future buyers of M$'s next gen console.
What? Banned from hard drive? The modchip makers must really suck if they cannot get around this.
Most people don't use modchips, they just change the firmware in the DVD drive so it will boot backups also.
Hahaha lol at all the bad ratings given to MS/Xbox haters.
That`s not true acctualy, u could get access back by removing all ur contnet from HDD and formatting it
well game developers are trying to get around pirates now as well by offering exclusive content to "each individual game". For example in Dragon Age: Origins each individual game comes with a redeem code for an extra character and another pseudo story/quest line. I think on the steam store you get more since you do not receive any actual physical item. This was also a tactic to stop "Used Game" sales(another money sink that game developers and publishers are trying to get rid of), force the person to buy new copy if you want that content or pay extra for it via bioware store or xbox live marketplace if you got the "Used" version.
It should be noted though that there are no 360 games, except the ones exclusive the the xbox live arcade and indie games download services, that require a hard drive install.
Except FFXI, which is an online game anyways, and Forza 3 which doesn't technically require an install but it wasn't really designed to play off the disc.
There is no justice in this world, things simply happen.
Microsoft will keep trying to fuck the modders and they will try to keep modding.
This time Microsoft clearly won but I don't believe that the lost functionality can't be fixed.
Modders won't give up they will find a way and Microsoft will find a way against them and so on.
well, sounds like microsoft is shooting itself in the foot again.
"I know you guys had to modify our inferior product to make it more worthwhile and for that we are punishing you. Wait, wait! Don't go! What do you mean you guess you will only be playing your PS3 from now on?!?"
D'OH!
pirates just got assraped.
screw you M$
This is awesomeness, I wish this would be done to the PC computers who hack all the online MMO games, kill their hard drives for using botters and automated scripting in the online MMOs. I wish this would happen to them all. So, the online Xbox360 games could now be fun to play as all the hackers have just been taken out of them?
While using bots/scripts is against the terms of service for most mmos its not hacking. The people still have to buy a legitimate copy of the game for an account.
I find it funny that some people here try to defend piracy and somehow make it sound like what they're doing is actually good for the gaming community.
Here's a little shocker for you: it's not.
I'd rather just hear these people say they pirate games simply because they want to play the games for free... and leave it at that.
On a related note, here's an interesting article on PC game piracy that I found was well researched and answers some of the most common pro-piracy arguments: http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html
interesting thing to read.
But anyway starcraft 2 is a must buy for me.
But i also need a new pc for it.
Thanks for that, very good article.
The most shocking/funny was people that call tech support for probs with pirated games.
Thats like stealing a car from a dealership, then coming back the next day to complain about the broken window used to steal the car.
On another funny note, you pc gamers love to call the fanboys consolefags, but in reality your pc games are really console ports. Whos a fag now?
The ban waves they've done up until now haven't hurt their sales, what makes you think they will this time? Just because Artefact posts something doesn't actually mean it's new.
Has anyone ever considered that Microsoft is taking down piracy because the DEVELOPERS are complaining?
It would make sense.
"People aren't buying the games I spend my career on and because of this I'm not making the scratch I deserve."
I don't know about you, but I would be absolutely enraged with this. If developers aren't making money, then they aren't going to be too interested in making more games. And as a typical consumer of video games this makes me angry, too.
I've noticed with Nintendo - people are pirating more and more and there have been many delays in getting games to the USA, etc. I thesis it's also because they either can't afford to keep some of their translators(multimillion companies like Microsoft and Google have had to let go of a lot of their workers, too, so there's no use in saying they should have enough money to keep everyone) I know it does take time, but they have been slow this year.
Crime doesn't pay, and I don't feel sorry for the people who choose to pirate and mod'.
I know it's yours, you bought and should be free to modify your 360 to how you see fit, but when you agree to certain rules and break them it's what you should expect.
No use in complaining, is all I mean.
Developers must to learn to do good games. And graphics alone doesnt make a good game.
Exactly right. Dead space: graphically impressive but the game play itself even MORE impressive (at least on a console).
Bioshock: same thing as Dead Space.
Unless the ToS explicitly said that the console could be disabled the "you agreed to the ToS" argument does not fly. I also believe that in the US there is a law allowing legal backups of games you own. These people probably have good justification to take MS to court.
Whether they could win or not (money wins over truth every time) is another story.
It doesn't say your console could be disabled, but it does essentially say they (M$) can't be held responsible for any damages to the console if you don't use it as agreed upon in the terms of service.
If you decide to modify your console, you're already breaking the ToS. And as such, you bare the risk of having your console bricked.
Here's a fancy analogy: if you decide to modify your toaster to shoot laser beams, that's up to you. It's your toaster. But if the appliance suddenly stops toasting bread for whatever reason, you don't have a right complain to the toaster company since you didn't use the product as intended. Going back, the Xbox was NEVER intended to play pirated/copied games.
Strange how some people complain that it's M$'s fault that their Xbox is essentially bricked. They refuse to acknowledge that it's actually THEIR fault for not following the rules and deciding to mod their consoles, despite repeated warnings from M$.
Facetious argument. The toaster argument doesn't fly, because you are changing a bunch of stuff in it and changing it's PRIMARY PURPOSE.
With modding an XBox360, you are not doing that in the slightest, and unless Microsoft does something like this asinine bullshit, your console will keep on working.... FOREVER, in almost all cases, unless the hardware fails, which it could do on an UNMODIFIED console.
There is a difference between 'act of dog/god' and someone coming into your home, scanning your console/computer, deciding that you have an 'illegal version' and bricking your console/computer!
TOTALLY FRIGGING DIFFERENT, and the law and order loonies like you just cannot get that. They think "TOS IS SACRED! LAW IS SACRED!" and shut off their brains.
all original harddrives are over priced under sized pieces of shit anyway. get an external drive and format it to FAT32 and youre good.
This is why you should only game on the PC, gentlemen. Consoles suck, always have, always will.
Wait, the Sega Genesis/Megadrive and the SNES were fine consoles!
All I can say is HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
When will people realise the they where stupid for buying anything that is made by or owned by Microsoft.
LMFO OWNED!!! Sales will drop even more, and is sony laughing their ass off as MS scroored on owngoal. xD
...."LMFO"?
Region lock=Discrimination
but also when you see what kind of censorship people can do to other games that are not meant outside japan then
Region lock=protection?
or wish to only sell it to your people and make money there and not around the world
i wish to know if i upgrade my hdd with a non-MS hdd (using the same brand/model hdd but cheaper)then i will get banned too =s? its a mod after all
This type of thing really motivates me to become a career black hat hacker =/
This is why I like non-online consoles without all of that stuff. There's a possibility that the other companies could do the same type of thing with their semi web-based consoles if they wanted to (cutting you off and such), but no matter what they say, they can't touch your PS2 or your Gamecube. Of course, I'm not a pirate, so none of this stuff applies to me anyway....
I've seen lots of "fuck the pirates", and "we pirate 'cause we want free stuff"-type posts. Game makers howl at all the money they say they are losing due to people making and using illegal copies of their games.
An observation: there's a place I go to where I borrow books, music CDs, movie DVDs, etc. - for free!
It's called "the public library".
I don't hear book publishers howling about how letting people borrow books from libraries without paying for them is costing them tons of money.
Hmmm . . .
Some libraries are even doing GAME RENTALS for free now, so they could say that libraries are helping with 'game pirating'.
False. You still need to return the game to the library after a week or two... and if you don't, they'll charge you the price of the game. That is NOT piracy. That is lending.
Hey, it's still the frigging same thing. Microsoft is only getting paid ONCE for a game, and then it is being lent out to 10 or 20 other people.... which means that on a 50 dollar game, they are 'losing' 500 dollars to 1000 dollars in sales in most cases.
Nothing different from the above than from piracy, Microsoft still isn't getting the money out of the people who are renting/borrowing the thing from the library.
Hm, I see you have a point there. I guess the answer to that is the public libraries have an obligation to make the citizens more cultivated, thru books and other media. I mean, they don't stock pr0n or Playboy in the library. And the number of copies in circulation isn't great enough to put the publishers out of business.
It's a bit concerning, if I read this right, if you buy a pre-owned console there's a chance your buying a paperweight that streams audio? :D
YEP! And that's what is going to get Microsoft in a shitload of trouble.... the aftermarket sellers, who will have modified their consoles and then sell them online to 'smucks' who do not know they are modified.
I see a BIG OLD LAWSUIT in Microsoft's future, and it's going to cost them BILLIONS if the people wish to be 'nasty' about this.
It's as I have told people MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY times....... you are not allowed to break into someone's home because you think they have stolen your computer, so why should someone be allowed to basically 'break in' to your game console, say "MODIFIED! PIRATE!" and then make it a paperweight.... answer: NO REASON!
It goes against NUMEROUS laws, and those TOS agreements that supposedly "allow it".... NOT ENFORCEABLE IN COURT! The only reason people keep on pointing at them.... they have never been challenged in a court of law, so the idiots out there keep on saying "They haven't been challenged therefore they are valid!" They said that same bullshit about the anti-homosexual laws and 'sodomy' laws.... and guess what? When they were finally challenged, what did the courts say? UNCONSTITUTIONAL! (sing that last word with me in four part barbershop... actually, nine part Supreme Court harmony)
I still haven't been caught. =P
You can only get banned for having a bad rip of a game.
There's a bad rip of MW2 going around, and people think it's real.
That's why there's been more bans than usual lately.
Microsoft is using this to their advantage to scare some people. (;
Ouch, used buyer beware.
i think people should remember how many red rings of death we have put up with, i was lied to from the very start, f*ck m$, all xboxers should play copies save money and buy ps3 n games for FREE online play and content
Too all you people QQ'ing about MS disabling the ability to save to the HDD. Maybe what MS SHOULD have done was reported to the authorities all the addresses of people who had modded xbox's/pirated games on their system and then let the system confiscate and press charges. Be glad all you got off with is a small $299 fine (if you decide to buy another 360).
Call the FBI, the users are modding THEIR OWN consoles. How terrible... those little terrorists, how dare to mess with the US national security!
HOHOHO is like a 4chan ban...only retards have a ban LOL..
...too bad for who have modified their consoles 'cuz falls in save money-inversion trap
Bah, modded 360 RRoD'd like 2 days before the ban wave, so I don't know if I'm banned or not. It doesn't really matter since I'll be getting a new xbox anyway.
that's why i love the PS3 the games are region free
so if a game is not in the States i simply buy an import form Japan
hell yeah
+ 1
Banned 360 = new linux workstation
Only if you can get a unit which doesn't have the newer MS patches applied.
From: http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/Main_Page
---------------
Felix Domke, Michael Steil, Free60 Project; 11 August 2009
Dangerous Xbox 360 Update Killing Homebrew
On Tuesday, Microsoft has released an Xbox 360 software update that overwrites the first stage bootloader of the system. Although there have been numerous software updates for Microsoft's gaming console in the past, this is the first one to overwrite the vital boot block. Any failure while updating this will break the Xbox 360 beyond repair. Statistics from other systems have shown that about one in a thousand bootloader updates goes wrong, and unless Microsoft has a novel solution to this problem, this puts tens of thousands of Xboxes at risk.
It seems that this update is being done to fix a vulnerability already known to the Free60 Project. This vulnerability has been successfully exploited to run arbitrary code, and a complete end user compatible hack has been in development for some time and is planned to be released on free60.org shortly. It will allow users to take back control of their Xboxes and run arbitrary code like homebrew applications or Linux right after turning on the console and without the need of a modchip, finally opening up the Xbox 360 to a level of hacking as the original Xbox.
Because of the dangerousness of the update and the homebrew lockout, the Free60 Project advises all Xbox 360 users to not update their systems to the latest software version. The Project website at http://free60.org/ will provide the latest information on this ongoing topic, including the final hack software.
---------------
lol, microsoft is so stupid, they probably spent a couple million dollars coming up with the idea, putting it into action, and trying to make it fool-proof. Now in about two weeks some hacker is going to find the loophole that was overlooked. and the instruction manual to bypass all microsoft's bullshit will be online later that day. all in all, they just wasted their fucking time and money. Glad i sold my xbox360 so i don't have to worry about this ignorant shit.
-the beast
Screw Xbox360 and get ps3 guys =]
Got to agree with that statement. At least with PS3, you will not be banned for 'modding' because you can ALREADY play backed-up games no problem, at least according to my friend who owns a PS3.