The supporters of a ban on loli manga are attempting to brand opponents as mentally ill, whilst denying that any evidence is required for their proposed bans and suggesting it is ridiculous that fictional children do not enjoy the same rights as real ones.
One author, Nanako Ooba, a “birth coordinator,” writes thus:
“Whenever anyone tries to ban this material, the mangaka and their supporters send them huge amounts of protest mail; however you look at it, this is violence. Against such violence there is no need to discuss the basis of the law.”
“Isn’t it necessary to spread the idea that the people supporting the readers of these sexual abuse manga are causing denial?”
“Please refer to the following: ‘On the Denial of Schizophrenia’.”
“They are suffering from denial, they keep arguing that you can’t ban something with no evidence against it. We have to think of a counter to this.”
It seems unlikely she would be prepared to consider the letter-spamming campaigns of Equality Now as “violence.”
A convention of Parent-Teacher Associations publically foams at the mouth when the subject of loli manga is mentioned:
“As a society, as parents, we can’t forgive this. Indeed, it is madness that these disgusting forms of extreme sexual expression are allowed at all.
Why are these things even allowed to be published? We have to change Japan’s culture and values, and tie these manga to the promotion of sex crime.”
“This isn’t a matter of just not letting minors read them, or of there being no victims in a manga. There are lots of adults who commit crimes based on these. Without a shadow of a doubt, anime and lolicon culture cause sex crime. If they can’t be relied on to regulate themselves, there must be a ban.”
“For the sake of the publishing industry, we should be gradually imposing more and more penalties on them to weed out the bad ones.”
“It is absolutely incomprehensible that they are allowed to do this to children just because they don’t exist.”
“In other countries they have bans. Only in Japan can we not get a ban. A ban is so obviously right that there is no need at all to provide an explanation or data to the mangaka groups.”
Ban supporters talk with delight of a formidable weapon in their arsenal, the washed up former idol and Sokka Gakkai cultist Agnes Chan:
“There was a Diet member who objected to the ban because it would ban some famous nude artwork. Agnes Chan did him right! ‘Do you really want to see pictures of 15-year-old girls that much? What’s artistic about that? Why can’t you wait until they’re 18?’ she said. He was lost for words.”
A prominent legal scholar argues fictional beings deserve the same rights as actual ones:
“It is simply bizarre that any kind of manga can be published simply because no actual people appear in it.
On the subject of a ban, I heard that a Diet member received a huge amount of threatening mail just for proposing it. For that reason, something must be done about this.”
Yet he freely admits there is no evidence whatsoever that such material increases crime:
“But there is no evidence that child porn manga increases child rape. Of course, there is no evidence that the manga exerts a cathartic effect and reduces crime either.
… but I think it is wrong to think that just because there is no data supporting a link that manga does not influence sex crime. It is nonsense to suggest you need evidence to support a ban.”
Opponents of such measures would do well to note the pointlessness of attempting to reason with either the proponents of a ban or the general public.
Just as they suggest, tactics of demonising, smearing and discrediting opponents, and making appeals to the paranoid emotions of the general public, whether relating to their children or their human rights, are more likely to be effective, to say nothing of the effectiveness of direct pressure.
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What about all the suggestions/depictions of child rape in (fictional) novels? (such as the koran lol, GL trying to ban that)
These arguments they put up are starting to look more and more like deranged religious' quotes.
something or someone fictional doesn't have any right
That's because a fictional person isnt REAL, they're just scratching at a metal door. They have no argument, they have no statistics (until they decide to B.S. some up), and they're desperate to see loli stuff gone because it won't go away JUST because they want it to.
how about banning the ban on eroge without proof
“It is absolutely incomprehensible that they are allowed to do this to children just because they don’t exist.”
I lol'd so much at this.
If we go by their thinking, then it is wrong to imagine someone being subjected to your sexual desires in your mind just because the means, the "instruments" and, let alone, the event itself do not exist? Wow, even imagining things that you might never do in your life is wrong?
Now isn't that being too restrictive?
Not by their retarded standards it's not (even though they themselves all do it.)
so ... let's see ....
here we have visual representations of little children being raped, or otherwise stimulated to sexual intercourse.
those people state such depictions should be prohibited.
what about this?
I write a book ... yes, a book, describing the act of rape or sexual intercourse of/with a child.
if we believe those nutsacks, this book oughta be prohibited as well ... there is no difference to a picture or just a written description. in both cases a fictional character gets molested and offended.
what do we have then??
DAS DRITTE REICH!
I have never heard anything as stupid as "why don't fictional characters have any rights?"
what? I have to go into prison, because one of my stories has a murder in it?!?!?!
whoever is dumb enough to enforce laws on FICTIONAL characters, and this is my honest to god opinion, needs to die ... DIE ... RIGHT NOW!
(although I would never murder anybody ... I mean ... I am mentally stable .... as a fact, I am so very much mentally stable that I am capable of distinguishing reality from fiction)
Just like the drug war has been raging on and on in one form or another depending on the opinions of those in power, idea-crime is well on its way already to becoming another pointless, bloody war maintained by human intolerance.
how about all of us send them a letters saying we will begin our loli raep operation if the ban is to be imposed.
Then they'll come to your house, kill you and your family in pre crime self defense.
They'll kill your family because they won't know who the real poster was...they murdered you and everyone in your house to prevent future crime.
Minority report FTL!
*sigh* So to sum up what the femnazi's, and sheep of the public are doing. They claim loli manga/anime/games are evil, and cause crimes (which the they don't actually have any evidence of).
Then, supposed "experts" step forward to claim there's no need for evidence to BAN something? Wow. So, I guess it won't be long til -anything- people don't like (regardless of whether it does harm or not), will be banned? They should really stop while they're ahead. They don't know it yet, but they're opening a floodgate of backlash that may see the eradication of anything everyone doesn't share a positive opinion on.
There is no logic within a mob.
So what? 12-14 year old bithces being bloody raeped in the ass give me a turn on. Just lemme enjoy it. Then again, blowing peoples brains out with a magnum is also hugely enjoyable in video games, so why not ban them too?
It is time. IT IS TIME FOR YOUNG JAPANESE PEOPLE TO JUMP ON THE PIRATES PARTY BANDWAGOON!!!
http://www.pp-international.net/
The idiots won't protect your rights, only you can.
IT IS MADNESS lol
While it will obviously threat loli artists, I don't see who is going to profit from this ban. There is no sensible argument supporting it. Bitching about increase of child rape seems to be just a guise. And they even refuse to provide evidence for it. No politicians have morality so if I can't smell money, there is something really shady going on.
Yes To Freedom! Please bring us hope!
"It is absolutely incomprehensible that they are allowed to do this to children just because they don’t exist.”
The most retarded statement ever....
If 2D people have rights....
Then just draw 2D loli saying "I hate Equality Now ,Leave us alone sick bitches."
They at least have the right to decide their own fate right?
This statement is logically false, because legally, laws exist only to protect individuals from each other.
Where there is no harm, there can't be legalization.
"We have to change Japan’s culture and values, and tie these manga to the promotion of sex crime.”"
Clear cut evidence to promote witch hunts as their main intent right here.
"It is nonsense to suggest you need evidence to support a ban.”
What? Then I want all you ignorant moralists banned from politics and any decisions on making laws or change to society. Because I say so. But at the very least I can say this; ostrasizing people under the guise of protection is more oppressive and hypocritical than the average criminal out there. Want examples? Saddam Hussein, Hitler, Chairman Mao, Hirohito etc...Oh! How can I forget the Religious Fanatics of yonder years who hung, executed, tortured and killed innocent people because they were 'evil' with absolutely no evidence. Witch Trials anyone?
"On the Denial of Schizophrenia" and "suffering from denial"
Sorry but it seems to me that you're the one in denial in the 1st place. You seek to change lies into truths otherwise you know that your argument is baseless and invalid. Have any of these people taken Psychology at all? Sure even Psychologists can be biased to begin with as that individual's goal could have been to get into a more respective position to achieve their selfish goals. When people say imagination and reality is the same. I'm pretty sure that itself poses more evidence that the one who is mentally ill are people like you. Ergo one who constantly points the finger is in fact the one who is labeled. In essence you are admitting the fact that you yourself would commit such crimes just by looking at said material. So aren't you people against lolicon just denying that's how you feel? Want some proof on denial? Then how about a few certain studies that looked into men who are homophobic and denied being homosexual. When shown homophobic images and videos, they were more likely to react than those who didn't have any prejudice towards homosexuals. 'Sometimes it takes a Criminal to think like a Criminal'. Maybe you people are the ones in complete denial. Thinking about sex crimes continuously, knowing that you would act out under media influence rather than the large majorty out there. It isn't to defend people from Otaku's that you want such bans. It's because you want such bans so you can not only defend (hide) your sense of ignorant views and pride but to even defend the people from yourselves isn't it? Take That!
"It is absolutely incomprehensible that they are allowed to do this to children just because they don’t exist.”
Are you serious? Then it must be incomprehensible that films, novels, games, music or any other art that depicts violence of fictional characters are allowed to exist....
"Without a shadow of a doubt, anime and lolicon culture cause sex crime."
Where's your proof o'confident one? Without a shadow of a doubt that people like you throw thousands of innocents into prison while some are killed. Which is contributed to the so called 'good of the people' and is proven to be nothing but oppression. What do I have to back this up? History.
you cover most of the points i wanted to say.
Anyway mentally ill?
They are the ones in denial,i am not mentally ill and i was told this by doctors.
They are the people with power who find these things offensive without looking into any information about it and understanding it.Just becouse they are higher from us,they think they can say everything to us and we will accept it.
Think again and then they call us mentaly ill?
Becouse we don't follow their beliefs?
They just want to make us think we are incapable of giving right decisions.
They just can't accept people who do things that aren't bad at all and they think that they are not normal by their standarts.
Also 2d lolicon is far more popular then they thought.They just can't accept our harmless fiction.
Most of the comments by them only made me facepalm hard.C'mon they are talking like these things are real.They are only fiction.
If anybody says that he done something that would hurt real children and blame it on hentai.Then he is just escaping the truth that he is the one to blame and not the material.
Like i said many times 2d lolis which are superior and 3d real life lolis aren't the same.
Also i wonder if this has got something to do with the real porn industry since they don't get so much money anymore becouse we rather download 2d lolis for free and fap to that instead of real porn.
"I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Though frankly I'm getting a little tired of people abusing this system with the help of human idiocy and emotionality to eliminate freedom from a couple of the LAST REMAINING BASTIONS OF FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IN THE FREE WORLD.
Equality Now (we KNOW you are watching): try dealing with areas of the world that actually need help...I dunno...a lot of the middle east seems to need a bit of help on the whole violence against women front. Like there you have actual violence happening to, and this will blow your mind, REAL PEOPLE. Hello children getting married off at age 8.
You've got bigger fish to fry, and you can do so without chipping away the things like freedom of expression that make the free world just that, free.
Because as it stands, you are going after the most piddly of the piddly as far as potential issues, and alienating a large portion of the people whose support you need if you want to get anywhere. Just think about that.
Hmm? Why can't I just wait till this 15 year old drawn girl grows up...?
I lol'd SO fuckig hard.
yes, yes we can!
Oh, oh god. My spleen, my ribs. They imploded from too much laughter. I'm dieing, someone send me he-
Mine went from nine to nineteen in-between seasons, so apparently it can happen......
Drawn girls don't age.
True art doesn't age.
Connect the dots, everyone.
"Without a shadow of a doubt, anime and lolicon culture cause sex crime"
So, first it was lolicon, now it is anime. What comes next, wearing sunglasses? Being of jewish origin? Oh wait...
At this point I think they're beyond help. They keep spouting unfounded nonsense to try and prove a "point". It's sad, because the sheep at home will read their statements and think they're talking about something that atcually happens.
I soo love discrediting people, that I just have to do this:
“Whenever anyone tries to ban this material, the mangaka and their supporters send them huge amounts of protest mail; however you look at it, this is violence. Against such violence there is no need to discuss the basis of the law.”
Ok, first of all threats of violence are not violence themselves. And second, you are most certanly not entitled to ignore the law because you were threatened. L2 criminal law before you make an asshole of yourselves on the internet, kk?
“Isn’t is it necessary to spread the idea that the people supporting the readers of these sexual abuse manga are causing denial?”
No. People should be making the decision for themselves. You are supposed to raise social awareness to the problem, not judge it. Anything else is an outright lie in front of the law.
Besides that, what gave you the right to decide the mental state of the readers of such material. Do you have a psychology degree? Do you have convincing scientific evidence? No? Then your arguments are just as good as the "women should be in the kitchen".
“Please refer to the following: ‘On the Denial of Schizophrenia’.”
And who exactly are you to determine that a large social circle of people are in denial? Please refer to my statement above.
“They are suffering from denial, they keep arguing that you can’t ban something with no evidence against it. We have to think of a counter to this.”
My god, you are basing your entire argument on the same unrealistic claim?
You are not supposed to "think of something" against an argument. You either have to find a reason to discredit it, or to accept it. Who exactly is in denial now?
Besides that, you still are not entitled to break the law just because you don't like something. Otherwise we would be facing either anarchy or dictatorship.
“As a society, as parents, we can’t forgive this. Indeed, it is madness that these disgusting forms of extreme sexual expression are allowed at all."
You don't have to forgive anything. Just keep your opinions to yourselves and don't do anything illegal. People are different from each other and have different ideals. Nobody is forcing you to accept other people as they are, but you can't just go and badmouth them.
"Why are these things even allowed to be published? We have to change Japan’s culture and values, and tie these manga to the promotion of sex crime.”
/sigh
You have to prove that "these manga" are tied to sex crime first. Which brings us back to square one.
“This isn’t a matter of just not letting minors read them, or of there being no victims in a manga. There are lots of adults who commit crimes based on these. Without a shadow of a doubt, anime and lolicon culture cause sex crime. If they can’t be relied on to regulate themselves, there must be a ban.”
Weren't we just here? You have to prove something if you want to legalize it.
“For the sake of the publishing industry, we should be gradually imposing more and more penalties on them to weed out the bad ones.”
This argument holds no merit. The publishing industry is made of grown up people who are smart enough to decide what's best for them. And since we haven't seen them protesting yet, we can only assume that they are at least content with the situation.
And you still have to prove something if you want to legalize it.
“It is absolutely incomprehensible that they are allowed to do this to children just because they don’t exist.”
So does this mean that Sylvester Stallone is guilty of manslaughter? Holy shit, somebody lock him up!
Seriously, I have all this imaginary money. It's absolutely incomprehensible that the bank is allowed to deny me my right to use them!
“In other countries they have bans. Only in Japan can we not get a ban. A ban is so obviously right that there is no need at all to provide an explanation or data to the mangaka groups.”
This is just dumb. There is no reason to accept the "common opinion" as absolute truth, just because others believe so.
Otherwise, we would still live on a flat planet, and the sun would still rotate around it.
In stricter legal terms, a law must always be based on conclusive evidence that there is more damage to be caused by ignoring the issue than by legalizing it. Sure, this is not always the case (UK Labor Party, I'm looking at you), but should we side track the laws just because others do? Please go to your nearest library and take a look at how the law system works before you make a fool of yourself.
“There was a Diet member who objected to the ban because it would ban some famous nude artwork. Agnes Chan did him right! ‘Do you really want to see pictures of 15-year-old girls that much? What’s artistic about that? Why can’t you wait until they’re 18?’ she said. He was lost for words.”
Already explained that before. This is "ad hominem" and unrelated to the real issue.
“It is simply bizarre that any kind of manga can be published simply because no actual people appear in it."
It's published because nobody is getting harmed by it. Feel free to conduct an objective social study if you find I'm wrong.
"On the subject of a ban, I heard that a Diet member received a huge amount of threatening mail just for proposing it. For that reason, something must be done about this.”
I agree. There is no reason for a person to be spammed by threats just because their opinion is unpopular. Wait, how is this related to the subject at hand?
“But there is no evidence that child porn manga increases child rape. Of course, there is no evidence that the manga exerts a cathartic effect and reduces crime either."
All the more reason we shouldn't give it to children to teach them proper human ideals, don't you agree?
The lack of evidence in one direction does not automatically prove the opposite.
"… but I think it is wrong to think that just because there is no data supporting a link that manga does not influence sex crime. It is nonsense to suggest you need evidence to support a ban.”
The law would beg the differ. What YOU think is of no consequence, unless you can back it up by something. Once again, the lack of evidence in one direction does not prove the opposite.
---
Ah, that felt good. I find it very amusing how people who have evidence to support their ideas turn to silly attempts to emotionally influence others in supporting them. This is like "dictatorship 101" - if you can't convince them, make everyone think like yourself. Next thing you know, they will start holding public meetings where they bring chant "down with the pedophiles" and try to convince each other that what they are doing is meant to protect the children and not their own insecurities.
Do they really think they will somehow stop pedophiles if they somehow ban loli/shota manga? (oh wait, they probably don't care about shota...)
Right, I'm sure they are going to have just as much success as purging CP off the face of the darknets (which I really wish they could).
Hopefully, Japan's legalisators are less prone to emotional appeals than their US/UK counterparts.
I will state this again. The loli ban did not pass in the US. Loli is LEGAL in the states.
We aren't THAT stupied.
Maybe all loli art should have tiny watermarks saying that "No actual Children, Fictional or Not, were Hurt/Injured during the production of this image." That kinda solves the issues of Realistic Death/Rape/etc Films don't it...
but the fictional/2d children DID get hurt...ok, i kinda feel something is wrong here...
No they didn't, it's just like in the movies. They just used 2D CG graphics and 2D special effects to make it LOOK like the 2D girls were being abused, when actually it was just 2D special effects and 2D dummies used to keep the real 2D girls out of harm's way.
Artefact if I may, why don't you delete the idiot comments? I mean, only the Equality Now fanatics can fight dirty?
So this is what happens when you cant win.
holy shit now you're accusing people with their own personal views as Mentally ill..Hell i'll sue you for abusing the power so called "good-side" that you hold so dear. Forcing people and peeking into their lives?
Why not just tighten the hold of retailers on dvd's so they won't burn the eyes of your Fucking "children".
"It is nonsense to suggest you need evidence to support a ban."
Did... did they actually just say that? Seriously?
Jesus freewheeling fuck.
Be careful there, in reality, you don't need correct evidence to get a ban.
In a lot of European countries smoking in public places got banned because "second hand smoke kills people". Anyone who does some research finds quite fast that there are only 2 studies about that, one has been disproved in high court for being false with bad intent, the other concludes that the effect of second hand smoke is almost immeasurably small. Still, the damage was done.
If you get enough popular hysteria/support, you can get it banned, evidence or fake evidence.
You may want to check your sources on this one.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_smoking#References
I stand corrected, at the time of the witchhunt against smokers here the anti-smoking groups kept waving with that EPA-report that had been disproved. Apparently there are better reports since that day. Still, it was that bogus report that started the hysteria here back then.
Oh my ****ing God.
Change Japanese culture?
To what? A bunch of redneck cornholes who will say JESUS LUBS YOU! While trying to sprinkle non christians with holy water and performing exorcisms to convert them then shooting them in the face if they refuse the "Lerv uv Jaaaaysus."
Maybe the world would be better if every shinto shrine, mosque, and wherever the **** hindus pray into a christian megachurch?
I WANT 2d chars to be considered real people. Then I can collect government child support funds to feed and clothe every child in my manga collection. I have 2000 children named naruto, so I can collect 600,000 of government money just from them.
I hate bible thumper whackjobs because they'll talk about how they're loving and compassionate but out of the other corner of their mouth JOKE about how "non believers" should be "wiped out." Kill muslims! HARAHARHAR! Kill Atheists HARAHRAHR! Kill atheists! WITH FIRE!
Kill Jews! ....Not cool man...if you want to talk like that turn the music on so noone else can hear you...we don't want anyone else to know that we're ideological descendants of nazis!
There are regular christians who don't evangelicise and try to force their morals onto others...they're decent. But evangelical christianity makes it acceptable to pester people into accepting your views, and if they refuse the christian extremists then they become legitimate targets of violence because they're "unholy"
Monotheism (mainly christian variations) makes it Ok to convert people by the sword. The wahabbiist muslims coopted the spanish inquisition -_-
If they want to ban immorality and violence then they should ban the bible.
Lot fled his city abandoning everyone in it to a horrible death, then holed up in a cave making children with his daughters.
Joseph fucking Fritzel didn't commit a crime in his incest bunker, he was following Gods word!
Rape murder, all there. Not just there it's divine justice.
Murdering children? Only if they disagree with you, then you can lob rocks at them until they apologize.
Slavery, it's cool with jesus!
Will they ban the bible which is a book with the same level of violence and legitimacy to be called "literature" as a guro manga? Of course not.
Will they try to change the saudis culture? Of course not, only a few anti loli ban people would be heroic enough to decapitate these demagogues.
This world sucks because there's too many holier than thou christians and not enough lions.
Best anti-loliban rant so far.
In Lot's defense, it's been pointed out that he was drunk (by the hands of his own daughters no less) when they did the deed. And his daughters thought the world HAD come to an end and they were the last people alive.
Does it make what was described in the Bible right? Not at all.
BTW, nice points about the different monotheistic groups. ;) I don't agree with all of 'em, but still, pretty impressive list.
Thanks.
If every religion read their texts, then they wouldn't do half of the things that the texts ok'ed if they were modern day people.
Back in the day, slavery was a necessary evil.
Before slavery, people in conquered tribes were either killed and left to rot, killed and buried, or killed as a source of food
So to a bronze age man, slavery is preferable to being turned into a happy meal. It only become something frowned upon in modern times
In an era where keeping conquered people alive was a drain on food and resources, it was either put them to work for the good of society and eventually free them, or make a mass grave.
Letting people work to become a freeman was seen as merciful. While senseless murder was debase and cruel.
But if you go to court saying "I want a legal write to classify my neighbors as indentured servants/slaves," you'll be laughed out of court.
The commandments in the new testament, jewish law, maybe even islamic law and japanese shinto rituals all came from things that they saw caused conflict in society.
The best way to remove conflict in society? Say god will punish you if you don't is enough to scare feeble minded people. If someone isn't scared, you band the feeble minded together to perform inhuman and ghasty tortures on him to keep the unbelievers in line.
Lazyness was a sin, because if you were lazy back then, your family would starve and your tribe would become weak, lose power, and be conquered. So beating lazy people with sticks would be acceptable to prevent the tribe from suffering.
The problem is that it went from a "you should do this to live a healthier life/have a more peaceful society." to "YOU WILL DO THIS TO THE LETTER OF THE WORD OOORRRR EEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLSSSSSSSEEEE!"
Modern societies that have strong religious prescence try to convince you that you should follow that word. They might shun you if you don't or make your life annoying. But they won't stone children or set people on fire.
Societies that are tribal have a more fundamentalist mindset and since they have a lower life expectancy and more ways of dying of unnattural causes follow their holy book to the letter no matter how cruel or inhuman it might seem, just so they can keep themselves from going to hell for not following the letter of the law.
They created the figure of a benevolent King that could govern humanity through his wise and just law. Whoever was king at the time was just a vassal of the greater king, so whatever he did was just according to gods law. He would tell people to accept his brutality because he had the right of Kings and was Gods servant on Earth. If he became too tyrannic and was overthrown it'd be gods justice and the new king would uphold gods law.
In modern times lawyers have a term called "Spirit of the law."
Shooting a man that pulled a gun on you is self defense. Shooting the same man in the back as he runs from you isn't. Putting a gun in a mans hands then capping him when he points it at you would keep you from being shot but wouldn't be within the spirit of the law.
Arresting a man who takes pictures of underage girls and distributes them is the law. Arresting a girl and putting her in prison for 10 years as a sex offender is following the letter of the law not the spirit in which the law was written.
Modern law is open to changes because it acknowledges that man made the law and can revise the law. The law's "set in clay" and can be remolded when it becomes necessary. Religious law is carved in stone and eternally unchanging no matter how outdated it becomes.
Religous law and a free society will never perfectly mix. Allowing the proponents of religous law change a law to make a country more moral may improve things. But they'll make more morality laws. Until 200 years later the people living in that former free society and dragged off to prison for not honoring the sabbath, eating meat on friday, or not ringing the bell at a shrine.
Why am I ranting like this? Well I just want to show why people think that banning harmless things is alright. Hopefully if they read this board they'll read my post and take it to heart.
Even though the Divine Monarchy myth was busted a long time ago, people still believe that they need an all powerful leader, either a military dictator, holy priest, or moralizing politician, to force decency on the indecent, and don't see it as an encroachment on free speech or liberty because God's law forbids that free speech and liberty. They will still raise hell if they think that their ability to preach is hindered and claim they have a right to spout their hateful rhetoric because of free speech but still not see the hypocrisy of their words.
You sir, are my hero. So much truth in your words.
I really want to be at one of these conferences or gatherings or masses or whatever. I want to say "Could we hurry up? I have a witch burning at 12:30..."
And an Inquisition at 5.00pm.
"Comics and art has been part of mankind since the beginning because we have something called imagination. Take that away and you'll be eliminating a large portion of what defines a childhood."
I cannot believe my father is the one who pointed it out to me.
If fictional characters have the same human rights as real people, then they also get the human right "equality before the law". So, why not start lawsuits against fictional characters for crimes and murders on other fictional characters in manga's?
just to show how ridiculous the idea is.
Or to make a western comparison, Sue Voldemort for attempted murder on harry potter :)
Or sue Rita for trying to conquer Earth after 10,000 years, and animal abuse by forcing them to grow.
I lol'd hard!!! Oh man that was a good one.
VOLDEMORT KILLS ****.
But... It wasn't us who rape those lolis! It was those 2D geezers! D:
On 2012, there will be a world war between Equality Now and otakus.
+9000 ready your swords, knives, and chakrams.
Should I bring our loli assassins, too?
Please do so.
Their cuteness and innocent appearance will confuse the opponents, making them less guarded. That will be the moment to strike, while the lolis are being brought in for a comforting hug....
"Don't worry now... you're safe from those monst-" *GGGGRRRGHHH!~*
That works too. ^^
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8682/yukarinlovesyou.png
IN THE YEAR 2101 WAR WAS BEGINNING
We should ban feminism, and since its nonsense to suggest you need evidence to support a ban, I think we just won.
But really, this is now only about who can yell the loudest and call the other the stupidest. Laws don't have anything to do with this anymore.
this madness here has made me mentally ill.. seriously. agnes chan i should sue you D;
well after reading all this, the 2 problems are this 1. they want to ban loli, and
2. ban anything with abuse to women.
and i totally don't agree with this,
"Why are these things even allowed to be published? We have to change Japan’s culture and values, and tie these manga to the promotion of sex crime.”
now i'm all for free speech and free expression, and without those i think human civilization/society wouldn't advance. now you're probaly wondering what kind of advancement you could get from manga based on the subjects in question. :P well i got no answer for that, but i guess something.
The reasons they have for wanting to ban loli are quite valid, you can't come up with a good argument to that. But if they say it would encourage people to do these acts, why dont they ban video games where you shoot police or something like that. In a context like that police could say those games would encourage people to do such an act and harm a police officer in real life. But they dont ban it, they rate it mature. And if it just so happens that someone did that, they would be heavily dealt with with the law, and serve as a deterant to others.
So if the laws are enforced or beefed up perpatrators of such, it would deter them and others. and just a thought, if giving all the characters an over 18 age, then they wont be loli, and i think they still can be drawn loli, because people come in all shapes. or if i make up a character and say the character is from planet x and is from an alien race z and is 23 (25 in human years) years old, and i as an artist can draw this character anyway i want, wouldn't that be not breaking any rules? what do you think?
Now the other "Abuse against women", now this one is tricky i can't think of any good arguments to this one. but there are countries that treat women as such,(i'm not saying names, you know who), why don't they go after them?, its real people there not fiction.
or another thought, if at the begining of the manga they say "don't try these scenes in real life, this is fiction" and at the ending they say "no one was harmed in any way in this story, this is all fiction"
:P kinda lame, what do you think?
and for the "Why are these things even allowed to be published? We have to change Japan’s culture and values, and tie these manga to the promotion of sex crime.”
How would this person like someone telling him/her that "today and from now on you cannot communicate to anyone by sight or sound"
What would that person do then, won't the person retalliate
and this lame thing about drawn characters has rights just as real people, i think thats a weak argument, because
1. its not real, 2. its not real and 3. its not real
I hope the new Japanese prime minister just brushes them off, or at least maybe come up with some sort of regulations, no banning.
cause if its banned then that would be controlling of ones thoughts.
Oh and also these games and printed material bring escape, (and i believe the dalai lama also spoke of this) and relaxation, to people. Stress relief.
i say the solution to this is to enforce stricter punishments for perpetrators of such crimes.
NO BAN!
agreed. they always complain when it comes to sex/porn and not any other type of violent crime. Personally, i'd much rather have chikan in the world than a hick that wants to do real life grand theft auto...I think i'll play some video games where I'm a terrorist now...oh and listen to rock at the same time since the pope sees it as evil. Muahahaa...
By the this logic “It is absolutely incomprehensible that they are allowed to do this to children just because they don’t exist.” we should start arresting horror movie writers and producers, they shouldn't be allowed to write about people being murdered just because they arn't real.
So all films that have fictional killings are in fact snuff films?
Makes sense.
They call us mentally ill, yet they're the ones whose actions imply that they cannot tell fact and fiction, nor have a sense of childhood wonder and imagination.
Now just who are the mentally ill ones?
Funny.... they said the same thing about homosexuals and the people who supported getting rid of the ban on homosexuality, they said the same thing about black men who had sex with white women.... need I keep going on?
Mentally ill in today's society has been perverted from 'person who is causing harm to someone else without their permission or who fits into VERY few classifications in the DSM' to people who refuse to adhere to the 'conventional' (which is actually not so conventional) morality of the 'majority' (who really aren't a majority).
I get extremely frightened reading stuff like this and knowing people believe it.
More rubbish again.
Btw, I hate loli and pedophiles and people who regularly have a look at pornography.
However, banning all this is wrong.
It's not real.
You want to ban things that do not exist? PREPOSTEROUS.
There is no proof that all this media increases crime and there is no proof that it reduces crime either.
Personally, I think it reduces crime.
You get to see and feel what these imaginary victims feel. You feel sorry for them. You then want to make sure that not similar acts are committed again. Isn't that a good thing?Without such material, kids wouldn't even know what is good or bad(You want to hide this from kids s o of course you wouldn't tell them about it would you?) and they'd make mistakes they never would have is such media was available.
Teens would end up having kids without knowing how it happened for crying out loud!
People tend to look at the bad points of things only and that's their mistake.
And btw, Japan will never ban it. It's part of the economy. Just like America is not allowing countries privacy and spying from satellites. Just like the America-Iraq stuff. Just like the helpless brainwashed terrorists in Pakistan.
Worry about real problems you losers!
YES, YOU PEOPLE ARE LOSERS FOR WANTING TO BAN THIS!
As the ban-obsessed idiots here have shown, there is no better way to show your mental illness than to project it on others while showing the symptoms of it yourself. After all, many mentally ill people have claimed to be sane!
As long as the lolicons have a basic sense of ethics to not prey on real children, even the most insane of them are definitely more preferable than any fundie you can find. It is, with full conviction, absolutely COMPREHENSIBLE that they are allowed to do this to fictional characters just because they don’t exist, because fictional characters feel no pain and any act upon them in itself does not lead to further harmful consequences (it's your choice if you will rape or not in real life after all), and we are actually doing the world a favour by having an alternative to preying on real children in real life.
Damn. These bakas are so fucking insane if I make contact with one I'd rather think of them as trolls so that my sanity is left intact.
I say the loli ban supporters are mentally ill too.
this is exactly the point! these guys should be considered mentally ill for not being able to distinguish between 2d and 3d!!!
You know whats next, anime children being killed.
"It is nonsense to suggest you need evidence to support a ban.”
Nonsense? So he's basically saying that america can put a ban on smoking? After all, smoking hurts health right? Just like lolicon is supposed to produce rapists(ILL GET BACK ON THIS). So why not ban it? Whats the problem? You to busy smoking yourself? Yet when so many people are against it, just like against lolicon?
Pathetic to the extreme folks.
Now let's make this plain and simple. Lolicon does not, in any way produce Child rapers or anything of that kind. To be honest i believe it helps RELIEF society from child rapers. After all, now they have a legal exhaust port which resembles what their mind demands ALOT.
Take that away and you wouldn't be anything better than what you claim loli lovers to be.
I have yet to find a Loli hater who'm i cannot own in a discussion. Good day, tada.
In this age and time many children dies and suffer from many thing. They die from disease, from hunger, at war and becomes an easy target for abuse both physical and mental and of course sexually.
No children deserve this but I guess in reality it's impossible to look at every direction and even easier to just ignore. So where does our righteous heroes are? Ah! they are fighting a notorious organization called "otaku culture" and they are working VERY hard to stop fictional rape and fictional abuse.
I guess it's there way of calling us looser when they say we are mentally ill. Pervert yes, mentally ill I doubt it and what with this "denial" thing. If they say that I'm on denial then I say they are in delusion
Delusion that they are protecting something
Delusion that hentai is the cause of all the sex problem
And finally in denial that they are not wasting time and money
They should realize that what they have here is a wonderful, obsessive and costly culture. Where ones devotion, fetish and work can be truly appreciated (more than one way)
LONG LIVE 2D
Actually, pervert is a value judgment. I could call people who like having sex with adult women perverted because I don't like doing it.... see where that leads?
They are metally ill themself thinking fictional characters need the same protection as real people besides thinking when you read something in a fictive story you do it irl too.
Okay, new game. Every time you see one of these posts about these asshats trying to ban Loli go fap to some Loli. Let the Earth tremble with the combined shaking of millions of fists. :D
Or drown the world as the seas water level rises with the introduction of thousands of gallons of sexual bodily fluids? ;)
So many anonymous comments
"A ban is so obviously right that there is no need at all to provide an explanation or data to the mangaka groups."
When they say it doesn't need an explanation at all...
Actually....we should support them...
"That's so nice of you to stand up for your kid. You know what..you should definitely accuse them as delusional, and mentally ill. Here why don't you go make a phone call? I will help hold your monkey wearing the diaper, oh my bad is that your kid?. In which case, there are currently a pack of banshee screaming over there..I think one of them have a strangely resembles your face..come on get to it."
http://core.nctritech.com:86/do/jap_BANdwagon.jpg
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Whipped that up for you guys to enjoy the shit out of. You'll love it.
"It is nonsense to suggest you need evidence to support a ban."
Really?
REALLY?
Wow. That is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard/read.
The late Carl Sagan pointed out in his "Baloney Detection Kit" a series of ways to tell if someone selling or proposing something was more trying to push their agenda or will than the "Rightness" or "Truth" of what they were selling/proposing. Though of course more designed to work against "Pseudoscience" it works for a lot of other things.
A strong point-
Ad hominem - attacking the arguer and not the argument.
That is an attack on establishments, ideas, speakers. For instance: Try our dung beetle extracts for the American Medical Establishment has been profiting off sick people for decades!
Of course, Moralist crusaders drip in this stuff. Anything involving "Think of the Children" is pure "Witch Hunt". "He doesn't agree with our Witch Hunt!? Witch! Witch! Witch!!!"
Damn shes still trying to ban it? I wonder what is up her ass...apparently nothing since it is up the loli's.
“It is absolutely incomprehensible that they are allowed to do this to children just because they don’t exist.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA...... hehe.
Next time they will try to ban imaginary friends from kindergarten, according to their "logic"
“There was a Diet member who objected to the ban because it would ban some famous nude artwork. Agnes Chan did him right! ‘Do you really want to see pictures of 15-year-old girls that much? What’s artistic about that? Why can’t you wait until they’re 18?’ she said. He was lost for words.”
I wish i would be there.I would tell her a few words.
Art does not have an age limit,so anybody can be artistic when they can.Waiting 3 years could be like a loss of an artistic moment that could never be captured again.
Im not saying i want to see a 15y old girl.Im saying i want to see some good art.
When it comes to fiction and drawings it does not have an age and characters don't age actualy in fiction since they are all part of ones imaganation.
Is it a fucking joke at this point??
"It is nonsense to suggest you need evidence to support a ban."
ahh yes! just the educated reasoning i've come to expect from such groups. their statements resemble ramblings of rebellious teenagers, trying to tell off mom and dad, for not letting them to go to their favourite bands concert. the sooner they realise they are a joke, the sooner we can all get on with our lives
The words Agnes Chan is trying to use but didn't make the ends meet in her example of trying to explain just what it is are:
Conditioning
Indoctrination
which leads to
Delinquency of Minors through the constant onslaught of the x-rated manga media. Which means, before the kids are even 15 years old they are already committed to the behavior that it is ok to reap males and females who are underage. Usually starting with their own siblings.
Wow, this post should be required reading in every government and school in the world. And lying right under it should be a copy of Mein Kampf.
This really would be hilarious if it weren't so truly dangerous. It is certainly the authors of those statements that are mentally ill, not the rest of us.
http://conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_Project
http://conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible
AHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!
Religion is trying to jump the shark...someone fire a sniper rifle and turn it into sharkbait!
fuck now im going to play rapelay becouse of all this hate storm and see what is up with it.
I take it Agnes Chan isn't a fan of the classical art in Japan? What next, the banning of tentacles?
If they banned lolicon mangas
then my life would be in ruins Dx
If otaku are mentally ill, then iEN is deaf.